S09.E06: Meeting Mariah's Girlfriend

[Bayarea4]

Kody questioned the need for a women's march because, among other things, "The legislature is already half women." I call B.S. on that. Female members of U.S. Congress are actually 19% or 20% of the total.

[Tabbygirl521]

Meri and Janelle seem to get along pretty well as long as Kody is out of sight, out of mind. I know they have very different personalities but it seems pretty likely that jealousy is their main problem. If they don’t have to think about him or dance around him, they do OK  

I hope Caleb allows his son to be his own person. I mean, the kid might not be into hunting, as shocking as that idea may be. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Tabbygirl521

[zenme]

Meri and Janelle have always had very poor communication skills, and have major resentments stemming from that. It seems they just need to let all the past go and start fresh, implementing the new skills. TBH, I blame Meri. She sulks and stews. She is not easygoing at all. Her body language with Janelle at the march was that she'd rather Janelle had not been there at all, walking ahead of her instead of with her. No eye contact with her.

Just leave, Meri. Oh, yeah, I forgot. She needs the money. 

My friend is about to have a baby, and has agreed to a name she doesn't like because of her husband. If I were her I'd do as Maddie did. " I had a dream that the baby's name  is _______. He told me so."

Edited February 19, 2018 by zenme

[ginger90]

[ghoulina]

Not my favorite episode. Too much Meri. Too much politics....I watch reality TV to escape politics. 

 

I didn't understand why Mariah only asked two of her parents to come to the march, and specifically Meri and Janelle. Well, I guess I get Jenelle. She's always been the most open minded of the group (what with her Korean bathhouse adventures). But Meri? Robyn and Christine were both much more supportive when Mariah came out. They appeared genuinely happy for her, while Meri looked like she thought her life was over. But I guess Mariah couldn't just NOT invite her mom. 

Plus, while Christine is very supportive, she's also afraid of every freaking thing. So I can see her being relieved not to be asked. If a toaster had been involved, she might have left the country. 

I also entertained the idea that production encouraged Mariah to invite this particular duo so that it would add to the "Meri and Janelle can't get along" storyline. I mean, they did get another therapy session out of it. 

And look what those two are fighting about - Meri's pissed because Janelle accidentally answered a question she believes was meant for her? Give me a freaking break. It may be my anti-Meri bias speaking, but I found that therapy session so one sided. At the end, Janelle is verbalizing what her faults are, talking about how she can improve, and promising to do so....meanwhile Meri's over the there in the corner, crying, playing the victim. 

 

I didn't get Kody's point about both marches. IMO, government should have zero say in ANY marriage. As long as all parties are of age and consenting, have at it! I fully support any protest or march to get government out of it. I'm just not sure why he saw the conflict. And, ultimately, I think the wives just really wanted to support their kid. I usually find Kody to be pretty good father, but this was definitely a case where I think his desire to be the center of attention took over. 

 

The Maddie and Caleb stuff was boring, as they've already had their son. No big surprises there. I will say, I don't think it's bad for parents to have a preference regarding the sex of their baby. And I don't even think it's wrong to voice it. Most people I know have had a preference, but were ultimately thrilled with their baby no matter what. That being said, the way Caleb talked about it was just a bit too intense for my liking. I worried he'd have made a girl feel bad for not being a son. I know, that's a lot to infer from 5 minutes of TV, but I'm just glad they had a boy. 

[chuckity]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

 

I didn't get Kody's point about both marches. IMO, government should have zero say in ANY marriage. As long as all parties are of age and consenting, have at it! I fully support any protest or march to get government out of it. I'm just not sure why he saw the conflict. And, ultimately, I think the wives just really wanted to support their kid. I usually find Kody to be pretty good father, but this was definitely a case where I think his desire to be the center of attention took over. 

 

 

Kody's generally a douche canoe but my take from both him and Meri and Janelle with "politics is dumb" and "I don't do politics" is that they were trying hard to remain politically neutral about a very divisive topic.

As for Caleb excitement over having a boy, I definitely cut him slack because at the point of filming and talking heads, he already knew he was having a boy so why fake it.

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, Meowwww said:

So why couldn’t they start the 13 cars to move them?  Why push them?

I think some of them weren't working. But, my God, that scene made me glad no one else lIves in the cul de sac with them. They turn everything into a cluster. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I would have appreciated it more if they would have just either gone to the March without so much trepidation or just stayed home.  All that protest about how they had misgivings....omg.  Turnoff for me.  And some of the ladies think that politics is stupid? Are you kidding?  Maybe, they should take some time and read about it, do some research, get involved.  God forbid we get the impression that they support women's rights.  

I was happy to see the March and Mariah happy for a change.  Her girlfriend seems nice enough.  

Ref. the discord between Meri and Janelle:  Ladies, just BEHAVE.  For goodness sake they act so childish.  Aren't they TIRED of that BS?  I am.  The DC trip seemed to go well. Let's hope they can just straighten up.  What a POOR example they set for their kids acting like children with each other, after all these years.  It's so yesteryear for me. 

[Granny58]

11 hours ago, trimthatfat said:

I think Meri and Janelle should give it up. They'll never see eye to eye on anything really. 

They won't, and it is enough if they can learn to ascribe the best intentions to each other, but I think they brought up an important point.  We don't know what is going on in somebody else's head and when we assign motives we're in danger of being HUGELY wrong.  You can see that Meri is a damaged soul...it's all over her face in her reactions.   I absolutely could understand Meri being "prickly" as a defense, and that coming across as bitchy.  I haven't read their book, but if in each woman's chapter they describe another wife's motives, it is all only conjecture.  And this doesn't apply only to this group....people in general are susceptible to this.  

11 hours ago, Mimiray802 said:

But I've always thought Janelle is secretly gay and honestly never liked Kody the same way the other wives did

and something that happened tonight made me think that too, although I can't remember what.  I'll edit if I do.

[Kyanight]

6 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Audrey is certainly a breath of fresh air after FT. It was great to see Mariah sparkle again. And I liked when Kody said, “This is different. But we’re good at different.”

Mariah's friends all seem pretty great. 

Still watching. More later!

Audrey is the most likable person we have seen in a long time!  She's very comfortable and natural on camera - I think she's great!  And she and Mariah are adorable together.   It seems like a good match!

[EtheltoTillie]

I liked seeing Mariah and her friends but I could not believe their platitudes about the polygamous moms. So empowered. So feminist. They are choosing so freely. Had they never watched the show?  

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Oh, and I'm glad Mariah didn't ask Robin to go to DC. The most coveted, smartest, wisest, most beautiful wife that everybody loves wasn't asked to go. You know it bugged her even if she acted like it didn't. 

Yes, awesome!  I roll my eyes whenever I see her overly-squinched up "concerned" face.  Ugh. 

[Kyanight]

Just now, GussieK said:

I liked seeing Mariah and her friends but I could not believe their platitudes about the polygamous moms. So empowered. So feminist. They are choosing so freely. Had they never watched the show?  

I know!!! ha ha ha ha!  That was so..... weird to come out of their mouths!    

I thought this was a pretty boring show.  The most interesting thing at the march was Meri and Janelle needing to use the bathroom.

[Adiba]

This episode was pretty boring for me--although it was nice to see Mariah finally smiling and happy. However, it annoyed me that she didn't just spit out that she and Audrey are dating. Big dill. Why does everything have to be a big announcement in this family? Both Mariah and her mother have something in common--they both do the same thing when communicating--teasing with the "I've got a secret" look. 

[gunderda]

34 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Mariah looks awful with her dark hair and severe brows...but she did look happy.  And Audrey seems lovely.  

I don't mind her with the dark hair... but in those pictures they showed where she had her natural blonde hair she looked really pretty. 

I wish I could do the dark hair with crazy colors, auburn, purple...etc.... but I just can't.  Tried it once and I looked ridiculous.  Back to blonde!

[answerphone]

I liked the balloon blowing gender reveal! Simple, fun, and not over the top.

[AZChristian]

47 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Why doesn't anybody in this family put up curtains?  

Probably because they couldn't add them to the mortgage, like they did the mini-blinds and washers and dryers.

[Jazzhands]

9 hours ago, Awfarmington said:

 

I might be in the minority but I dislike Tony a fraction less than Caleb. At least he’s employed and isn’t living with his in laws. 

Not yet ... ?

[toodles]

That therapy session.  Meri can say hurtful things and it's OK because that's just Meri and if you're hurt that's your problem?  I hate that.  That passive aggressive bullshit makes me crazy.  You don't get to be mean and not expect people to call you out for it. Meri crying because people are "misunderstanding" her meaning?  Cut the crap, Meri.  Mariah was pissed off about the catfishing crap?  Too bad.  If you had owned the consequences of your bad decisions, then the outcome may have been entirety different.  Can you tell it just pissed me right off?

Edited February 19, 2018 by toodles
punctuation matters

[fountain]

I didn’t mind Caleb’s comments, I thought they were pretty funny and addressed what we all were thinking.  I would think at 30 you would have a job with disability insurance no?  Do people in the US not insure themselves like they do elsewhere?  Don’t students buy coverage?  At my local university you are required to prove you have health insurance or get the university policy and we have universal health care (but it doesn’t cover everything and insurance fills the gaps).  Now with a PE he is pretty uninsurable for a while.

Why are people choosing to have a baby while both parents are going to school (because it is pretty obvious this was planned as Caleb is getting over the hill in Mormon years?)?

Mariah is still in school right? Hopefully she finishes, one girl has to finish.  So far only the boys haven’t rushed into marriage and babies with no jobs.

I am not opposed to marrying young, I was 24 when I married but I lived on my own and had an entry level position in my career.  

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Adiba said:

This episode was pretty boring for me--although it was nice to see Mariah finally smiling and happy. However, it annoyed me that she didn't just spit out that she and Audrey are dating. Big dill. Why does everything have to be a big announcement in this family? Both Mariah and her mother have something in common--they both do the same thing when communicating--teasing with the "I've got a secret" look. 

I'm so sick of the pulling away of certain family members to make these "big" announcements. Also, it seems like Mariah delights in leaving Meri wondering whether she gets to hear news first or will Mariah just tell them all at once. I get Mariah's issues with her mom, and can't stand Meri, but sometimes Mariah seems to be fucking with her mom and I just find it very immature.

[gunderda]

18 minutes ago, fountain said:

I didn’t mind Caleb’s comments, I thought they were pretty funny and addressed what we all were thinking.

I thought it was refreshingly honest too.  Can anyone blame him for saying it?  

[Kyanight]

27 minutes ago, gunderda said:

46 minutes ago, fountain said:

I didn’t mind Caleb’s comments, I thought they were pretty funny and addressed what we all were thinking.

I thought it was refreshingly honest too.  Can anyone blame him for saying it?  

You could tell he was embarrassed about it, and trying to make light humor.  Sometimes there are more factors going into a decision like this than just one thing.   They seemed to have an awful lot on their plates - and this isn't going to be forever.

[gunderda]

4 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

You could tell he was embarrassed about it, and trying to make light humor.  Sometimes there are more factors going into a decision like this than just one thing.   They seemed to have an awful lot on their plates - and this isn't going to be forever.

I think they've recently moved out too, or in the process of looking for a place.

[TurtlePower]

14 hours ago, cereality said:

I find Caleb obnoxious. We get it -- you want a BOY. Boys are better. God forbid you have a girl. Lots of men want boys, but the way he was saying it -- come on . . . . It's the first of like 6-8 kids probably, what's the big deal, you'll have both boys and girls??! You're 30 yrs old, you could also keep your preference quiet and go with "just a healthy wife and baby . . . ."

I honestly don't know why everyone in that family is soooo in love with Caleb.

It was irritating, too, when he said he wanted boy because he wanted "a shadow who might same interests as me" (something like that). Wowwwww. Girls can't do that? I was my dad's shadow as a little girl and wanted to do boy stuff. I kinda followed the same path working in public safety. 

What a jerk thing to say, Caleb.

1 hour ago, fountain said:

I didn’t mind Caleb’s comments, I thought they were pretty funny and addressed what we all were thinking.  I would think at 30 you would have a job with disability insurance no?  Do people in the US not insure themselves like they do elsewhere?  Don’t students buy coverage?  At my local university you are required to prove you have health insurance or get the university policy and we have universal health care (but it doesn’t cover everything and insurance fills the gaps).  Now with a PE he is pretty uninsurable for a while.

Why are people choosing to have a baby while both parents are going to school (because it is pretty obvious this was planned as Caleb is getting over the hill in Mormon years?)?

Mariah is still in school right? Hopefully she finishes, one girl has to finish.  So far only the boys haven’t rushed into marriage and babies with no jobs.

I am not opposed to marrying young, I was 24 when I married but I lived on my own and had an entry level position in my career.  

Honestly I wish one girls would go rogue (for their religious gender roles anyways) and join the Marines. 

[bichonblitz]

12 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

It was irritating, too, when he said he wanted boy because he wanted "a shadow who might same interests as me" (something like that)

Besides, just because you have a kid that is your preferred gender it doesn't mean they will have the same interests. Caleb's boy may turn out to be a computer nerd, or have interest in the arts  or be really bad at sports or maybe doesn't like to hunt. Having a boy doesn't mean he is going to follow in his footsteps. Nice if it happens but no guarantee that it will. I wish (some) men would get that through their stupid ego driven heads. 

[Brutus Buckeye]

Mariah's friends were absolutely awful, and the GF was not even remotely cute. Mariah looked like the cute one, by comparison. 

For whatever reason I was hoping that all of them were her GFs, because it would amuse me if she was a polygamous "male" type gal with a bunch of adoring ladies. 

[Brutus Buckeye]

It is funny to watch the paradigm shift. 

As teens, Mariah and Aspyn were the goodie goodies, heavily involved in their family's Church. 

Madison and Mykelti were the wild child types, appearing as though they are headed to be Vegas party girls, like Cousin Vikki in Vegas Vacation. 

As adults, Mykelti married a Mormon boy and Madison married a Minister's son. 

Mariah, who had been the only one to openly desire Plural Marriage and selected a college based on its proximity to the family Church, has instead become a militant, man-eating feminist. 

Aspyn is the only one of the four that stayed the course, as she appears to be interested in dating/marrying a polygamous fella. 

[Chicklet]

Mariah's GF was pretty cute, sorry to disagree. Mariah looks much better than she has in the past also. Glad she is charting her own course rather than following her whackadoodle parents.

[Janc]

Meri is so awkward, dismissing Meriah's friends before they'd finished eating so she could have some 'alone time' with Meriah and Audrey.  Even Audrey had a full plate of food in front of her getting cold while Meri could 'bond'. 

[Aethera]

Folks, political discussion beyond the episode is not allowed. Please do not use episode topics as a jumping off point to political discussion.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

That therapy session.  Meri can say hurtful things and it's OK because that's just Meri and if you're hurt that's you're problem?  I hate that.  That passive aggressive bullshit makes me crazy.  You don't get to be mean and not expect people to call you out for it. Meri crying because people are "misunderstanding" her meaning?  Cut the crap, Meri.  Mariah was pissed off about the catfishing crap?  Too bad.  If you had owned the consequences of your bad decisions, then the outcome may have been entirety different.  Can you tell it just pissed me right off

 

1 hour ago, toodles said:

>>>>Me, too! <<<<

 How did I screw up this quote so badly LOL Sorry toodles

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And look what those two are fighting about - Meri's pissed because Janelle accidentally answered a question she believes was meant for her? Give me a freaking break. It may be my anti-Meri bias speaking, but I found that therapy session so one sided. At the end, Janelle is verbalizing what her faults are, talking about how she can improve, and promising to do so....meanwhile Meri's over the there in the corner, crying, playing the victim. 

Therapist Nancy just lurrrrves her some Meri, doesn't she? What a pity party she let go on in that session. How completely useless the whole thing was. It was worse than a Meri/Kody therapy session - and I never thought I would see anything top the tongue baths therapist Nancy lavishes upon Kody. 

My takeaway from their session was that Meri is allowed to treat everybody else like shit because she's not doing it to be mean, she's just being defensive. If others don't get that and are hurt by her because they've misjudged her motives, that's on them. Meri has carte blanch to act any way she wants and everyone just has to dill with it.

Not only is that some bullshit in terms of being responsible for your own behavior no matter how you're feeling, it doesn't even remotely jibe with what I've seen of Meri being nasty to other people. 

For example take the Thanksgiving decor debacle. Under this theory of "Poor Misunderstood Meri" she was just being "prickly" out of defensiveness or insecurity or whatever. Except there was no reason for her to be defensive or feel insecure. The holiday decorating crap was right in her wheelhouse.  She was just mad about being saddled with Janelle's participation.  So she acted controlling, territorial, condescending, and dismissive. Because she was ANGRY. Because she was RESENTFUL. Not scared, not hurt, not frightened, not insecure or any of the other nonsensical excuses she spewed out in that session. 

Meri is an angry, frustrated, resentful, lonely woman and she takes it out on the people around her, Janelle being her favorite target because she is so passive (Meri wouldn't dare treat Robyn that way and Christine wouldn't put up with it). So there is this sick dynamic that has evolved between the two of them that everyone else in the family has to deal with.

Nothing is gonna change until one of them hops off the merry-go-round and I think that person is obviously going to have to be Janelle. Instead of rolling over like a lapdog the way she did, listing all her own faults and all the ways she planned to change, she needs to grow a backbone and put her foot down with Meri. She needs to openly call her on her shit instead of being part of the excuse making team for her.  Of course the chances of that happening are around zero. And with a nice big McMansion to hide in, Janelle doesn't have to move out of the house entirely to avoid Meri like she did years ago, so they're all just gonna go on like this ... 

It just pisses me off that Janelle left that therapy session with a laundry list of her flaws and things about herself to change, while Meri left with a pass to go on being a foul hag and permission to blame others for feeling hurt by her.

Therapist Nancy is one of the worst things that ever happened to the Brown family.

[fountain]

51 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

It was irritating, too, when he said he wanted boy because he wanted "a shadow who might same interests as me" (something like that). Wowwwww. Girls can't do that? I was my dad's shadow as a little girl and wanted to do boy stuff. I kinda followed the same path working in public safety. 

What a jerk thing to say, Caleb.

Honestly I wish one girls would go rogue (for their religious gender roles anyways) and join the Marines. 

Yeah that would be great.  Who knows maybe Mariah will go that route for medical training as she was planning to be a doctor or nurse practitioner right?  IDK how the military works though, it isn’t as big an opportunity here in Canada.

[Kyanight]

29 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Mariah's GF was pretty cute, sorry to disagree. Mariah looks much better than she has in the past also. Glad she is charting her own course rather than following her whackadoodle parents.

Mariah's girlfriend IS cute - and I thought her other friends were attractive girls, too.  I also don't believe that Mariah is either militant OR a man-eating feminist.  But we are all entitled to our own opinions, here.  : )

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, toodles said:

That therapy session.  Meri can say hurtful things and it's OK because that's just Meri and if you're hurt that's you're problem?  I hate that.  That passive aggressive bullshit makes me crazy.  You don't get to be mean and not expect people to call you out for it. Meri crying because people are "misunderstanding" her meaning?  Cut the crap, Meri. 

I hate that nonsense also.  Anyone saying that's just so and so and the way they are drives me batty.  People used that to excuse my mother- in-law's bad behavior and now my daughter's mother-in-law's garbage.  I called my MIL on hers and now call daughter's MIL on hers.  Shockingly they both stopped it around me.  They never will as long as they are excused. 

[Brutus Buckeye]

I'll concede that she cleaned up nicely for the talking heads. 

But the footage of her otherwise? All of a sudden even Mykelti's not looking so bad by comparison. 

[toodles]

25 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

Therapist Nancy just lurrrrves her some Meri, doesn't she? What a pity party she let go on in that session. How completely useless the whole thing was. It was worse than a Meri/Kody therapy session - and I never thought I would see anything top the tongue baths therapist Nancy lavishes upon Kody. 

My takeaway from their session was that Meri is allowed to treat everybody else like shit because she's not doing it to be mean, she's just being defensive. If others don't get that and are hurt by her because they've misjudged her motives, that's on them. Meri has carte blanch to act any way she wants and everyone just has to dill with it.

Not only is that some bullshit in terms of being responsible for your own behavior no matter how you're feeling, it doesn't even remotely jibe with what I've seen of Meri being nasty to other people. 

For example take the Thanksgiving decor debacle. Under this theory of "Poor Misunderstood Meri" she was just being "prickly" out of defensiveness or insecurity or whatever. Except there was no reason for her to be defensive or feel insecure. The holiday decorating crap was right in her wheelhouse.  She was just mad about being saddled with Janelle's participation.  So she acted controlling, territorial, condescending, and dismissive. Because she was ANGRY. Because she was RESENTFUL. Not scared, not hurt, not frightened, not insecure or any of the other nonsensical excuses she spewed out in that session. 

Meri is an angry, frustrated, resentful, lonely woman and she takes it out on the people around her, Janelle being her favorite target because she is so passive (Meri wouldn't dare treat Robyn that way and Christine wouldn't put up with it). So there is this sick dynamic that has evolved between the two of them that everyone else in the family has to deal with.

Nothing is gonna change until one of them hops off the merry-go-round and I think that person is obviously going to have to be Janelle. Instead of rolling over like a lapdog the way she did, listing all her own faults and all the ways she planned to change, she needs to grow a backbone and put her foot down with Meri. She needs to openly call her on her shit instead of being part of the excuse making team for her.  Of course the chances of that happening are around zero. And with a nice big McMansion to hide in, Janelle doesn't have to move out of the house entirely to avoid Meri like she did years ago, so they're all just gonna go on like this ... 

It just pisses me off that Janelle left that therapy session with a laundry list of her flaws and things about herself to change, while Meri left with a pass to go on being a foul hag and permission to blame others for feeling hurt by her.

Therapist Nancy is one of the worst things that ever happened to the Brown family.

No worries.  This site is a little wonky today.☺☺☺

[Delete]

The stupid "let's guess the baby's gender" was soooooo lame. Why does all of this matter?????  They need to have a reason for a party for almost everything. 

 

The on-going Meri and Janelle struggle is boring and pointless to me. They're never going to get along, and that's okay. They don't need to be besties. 

[Jen Marie]

Sick of politics inserted in nearly every show on tv. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

47 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

Mariah's friends were absolutely awful ...

Really? I didn't think we saw enough of them to really form an opinion. Although the one with the really dark hair who launched into a platitude-filled speech touting the the feminist virtues of polygamy made me laugh. She has clearly never seen the show. 

The idea that it's all good because these women "choose" to stay in their polygamist marriage every day is to ignore the reasons why they choose to stay.  Financial instability, fear of change or fear of being alone, fear of retribution or being cut off from the children, or the religion-based fear of spending eternity in some space void are not admirable reasons to stay in a polygamist marriage, in my opinion. But I think those are the real reasons Meri, Janelle, and Christine, and Robyn choose to remain with Kody. 

I do not think Betty Friedan would be impressed.

[Delete]

Robyn:  "SHE LIKES GIRLS!"  

 

Thank you Captain Obvious. 

[Brutus Buckeye]

13 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Really? I didn't think we saw enough of them to really form an opinion. Although the one with the really dark hair who launched into a platitude-filled speech touting the the feminist virtues of polygamy made me laugh. She has clearly never seen the show. 

The idea that it's all good because these women "choose" to stay in their polygamist marriage every day is to ignore the reasons why they choose to stay.  Financial instability, fear of change or fear of being alone, fear of retribution or being cut off from the children, or the religion-based fear of spending eternity in some space void are not admirable reasons to stay in a polygamist marriage, in my opinion. But I think those are the real reasons Meri, Janelle, and Christine, and Robyn choose to remain with Kody. 

I do not think Betty Friedan would be impressed.

 

Heh, as the boards lone hetero-male I wouldn't expect my opinions to be shared wide-spread. 

I don't agree that our anti-polygamy laws are pro-woman.

It basically the govt declaring that adult women are too dumb to make their own decisions about how they want to build their own family. 

So from that vantage point I would have to agree with Mariah's friends. 

[Sasha888]

40 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Therapist Nancy just lurrrrves her some Meri, doesn't she? What a pity party she let go on in that session. How completely useless the whole thing was. It was worse than a Meri/Kody therapy session - and I never thought I would see anything top the tongue baths therapist Nancy lavishes upon Kody. 

My takeaway from their session was that Meri is allowed to treat everybody else like shit because she's not doing it to be mean, she's just being defensive. If others don't get that and are hurt by her because they've misjudged her motives, that's on them. Meri has carte blanch to act any way she wants and everyone just has to dill with it.

Not only is that some bullshit in terms of being responsible for your own behavior no matter how you're feeling, it doesn't even remotely jibe with what I've seen of Meri being nasty to other people. 

For example take the Thanksgiving decor debacle. Under this theory of "Poor Misunderstood Meri" she was just being "prickly" out of defensiveness or insecurity or whatever. Except there was no reason for her to be defensive or feel insecure. The holiday decorating crap was right in her wheelhouse.  She was just mad about being saddled with Janelle's participation.  So she acted controlling, territorial, condescending, and dismissive. Because she was ANGRY. Because she was RESENTFUL. Not scared, not hurt, not frightened, not insecure or any of the other nonsensical excuses she spewed out in that session. 

Meri is an angry, frustrated, resentful, lonely woman and she takes it out on the people around her, Janelle being her favorite target because she is so passive (Meri wouldn't dare treat Robyn that way and Christine wouldn't put up with it). So there is this sick dynamic that has evolved between the two of them that everyone else in the family has to deal with.

Nothing is gonna change until one of them hops off the merry-go-round and I think that person is obviously going to have to be Janelle. Instead of rolling over like a lapdog the way she did, listing all her own faults and all the ways she planned to change, she needs to grow a backbone and put her foot down with Meri. She needs to openly call her on her shit instead of being part of the excuse making team for her.  Of course the chances of that happening are around zero. And with a nice big McMansion to hide in, Janelle doesn't have to move out of the house entirely to avoid Meri like she did years ago, so they're all just gonna go on like this ... 

It just pisses me off that Janelle left that therapy session with a laundry list of her flaws and things about herself to change, while Meri left with a pass to go on being a foul hag and permission to blame others for feeling hurt by her.

Therapist Nancy is one of the worst things that ever happened to the Brown family.

Like x 1,000!!! That's "therapy"? A therapist sitting there making excuses for why Meri acts like a junior high school girl? "It was MY question, and YOU TOOK IT!" Grow the hell up! My God. Meri isn't doing these things because she's so emotional and vulnerable, she's doing it because she's a bitch, and she likes to jump down everyone's throat at the first possible chance. What was MERI supposed to work on, while Janelle is working on understanding where Meri's outbursts come from?

In a normal life, you just avoid people like this. They are exhausting, and they're just waiting to take any little thing you do or say the wrong way, and put the hammer down on you for being so "insensitive". But in their life, you can't just say "You're an exhausting friend to be around, and it's just not worth it. See ya."

I noticed that Janelle said Meri TEXTED her all this stuff when she got angry with Janelle...not talked to her, texted her. So that way, it's a one way conversation - Meri gets to vent how she feels, and knows Janelle probably won't text her back and stand up for herself. If Meri really wanted to work out problems, she could walk her butt over to Janelle's house and DISCUSS it with her - but Meri doesn't want that. She wants to say what SHE wants, and does not want any reply (unless it's a groveling apology). 

I thought it was very telling, many seasons ago, when there was a disagreement about the rental house Meri took when they first moved to Vegas. She had to have a great big house, for one kid, while Janelle, who had cashed out her retirement to help finance the stupid move, could basically go screw herself. Meri's "apology" for that was to sit there crying and then say "I'm sorry I took something that you thought was yours!" That's not an apology - anything with a qualifier is not a real apology. It was basically, "Hey Janelle, I know you thought it would be a nice house for you, but tough shit, I got it! Ha ha ha!"

A real therapist would tell Meri she's being passive aggressive and that SHE has things to work on.

[MoodyGirl]

I didn’t understand the whole Meri needing to talk alone to Mariah and Audrey right then and there. I mean she could do that in Vegas. At first Meri mentioned it to Janelle in that she would like to see them alone over dessert. (Which is just probably a way for Meri to control janelle). Then we see Janelle excuse herself so I assume they had eaten and were going for dessert. Then Meri basically makes the friends go to the bar. Ok, that’s fine they can have an after dinner drink. Then we see full plates of food in front of Mariah and Audrey. So they hadn’t eaten? Janelle didn’t eat? No one did before Meri banished everyone? 

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, Granny58 said:

They won't, and it is enough if they can learn to ascribe the best intentions to each other, but I think they brought up an important point.  We don't know what is going on in somebody else's head and when we assign motives we're in danger of being HUGELY wrong.  You can see that Meri is a damaged soul...it's all over her face in her reactions.   I absolutely could understand Meri being "prickly" as a defense, and that coming across as bitchy.  I haven't read their book, but if in each woman's chapter they describe another wife's motives, it is all only conjecture.  And this doesn't apply only to this group....people in general are susceptible to this.  

I totally agree with this. And last night it seemed that Janelle was more open to Nancy's suggestions and willing to work on things. Meri is soooo closed off sometimes. She keeps things in, yet she wants to be understood but doesn't seem to know how to ask for what she wants. I just wish she would make a straightforward statement - spit it out woman!

5 minutes ago, MoodyGirl said:

I didn’t understand the whole Meri needing to talk alone to Mariah and Audrey right then and there. I mean she could do that in Vegas. At first Meri mentioned it to Janelle in that she would like to see them alone over dessert. (Which is just probably a way for Meri to control janelle). Then we see Janelle excuse herself so I assume they had eaten and were going for dessert. Then Meri basically makes the friends go to the bar. Ok, that’s fine they can have an after dinner drink. Then we see full plates of food in front of Mariah and Audrey. So they hadn’t eaten? Janelle didn’t eat? No one did before Meri banished everyone? 

Yeah that was all for show. It would've made more sense if they had waited until everyone finished eating, at least! I understand what Meri wanted, and I like that Janelle understood as well and had no problem with it, but the way it was done was obvious and not well-executed.

[Sasha888]

19 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

Heh, as the boards lone hetero-male I wouldn't expect my opinions to be shared wide-spread. 

I don't agree that our anti-polygamy laws are pro-woman.

It basically the govt declaring that adult women are too dumb to make their own decisions about how they want to build their own family. 

So from that vantage point I would have to agree with Mariah's friends. 

I don't think you're alone in being the only guy (paging Mr. Smith! He usually has some very good insights!). :-)

Also I don't disagree with what you say...consenting adults should be able to do whatever the hell they want without the gov't interfering. 

That being said, I think these particular people are nuts, and aren't happy being together. But my personal stance is, if you want to choose this, go ahead...I don't see why it should be illegal.

It is, however, IMO, sad for the children. But there are plenty of other non-polygamist people who bring children into bad situations, don't provide a healthy environment, etc. as well. I have a bad opinion of anyone, polygamist or not, having way more kids than they can afford, or pay attention to. So that is my biggest issue with this religion - they seem to encourage having TONS of kids, and encourage "bleeding the beast".

If polygamy were legal, maybe some of that garbage would stop...maybe not. I guess you'd be relying on people to be truthful, and say "We are a family with 5 adults, x number of kids, and here's our combined income". Perhaps that would cut down on some wives claiming to be single parents with no income, when in truth they have husbands and/or sister wives who are working and supporting them.

Not this particular family, of course....NO ONE works in this bunch!

[Chicklet]

Polygamy is most likely illegal (after Utah became a state that is) due to the skeevy old men from FLDS preying on young women who have no voice, haven't been taught better and are shuttled into "marriages" before legal age of consent. If you are a woman stupid enough to want to marry a "Kody" have at it. Just don't have 10 children, have no job, and expect other people to pay for your religious choices.

Oh, does my dislike of them show much?

Edited February 19, 2018 by Chicklet

[Celia Rubenstein]

10 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

Heh, as the boards lone hetero-male I wouldn't expect my opinions to be shared wide-spread. 

I assure you, you are not this board's only "hetero male," LOL. Nor are the opinions you have expressed solely held by members of that group. 

 

10 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

I don't agree that our anti-polygamy laws are pro-woman.

 I don't believe anyone here has made that argument. If you're referring to my comment, I was not suggesting anti-polygamy laws are pro-women.  I was specifically challenging one of Mariah's friend's opinions that the Brown sister wives are strong women making empowered decisions to participate in polygamy. Because I see their reasons as being more fear-based than made from a sense of personal agency, which the young woman in question seemed to be suggesting. 

 

10 minutes ago, Brutus Buckeye said:

It basically the govt declaring that adult women are too dumb to make their own decisions about how they want to build their own family. 

Not really. While that (pseudo feminist) argument is often made to criticize laws against polygamy, I think contemporary laws that ban polygamy have more to do with the drain on governmental systems so often created by pleural families. Also the laws banning polygamy are designed to prevent the chaos that would result in family and estate courts should polygamy become legal. Not to mention such laws are an attempt to combat the sexual abuse of young females tolerated by many polygamist sects.

[Sasha888]

43 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

And last night it seemed that Janelle was more open to Nancy's suggestions and willing to work on things. Meri is soooo closed off sometimes. She keeps things in, yet she wants to be understood but doesn't seem to know how to ask for what she wants. I just wish she would make a straightforward statement - spit it out woman!

I agree...Janelle seemed willing to work on things, Meri, not so much. This is just my opinion, certainly not a fact, but I suspect Meri is willing to go to therapy with someone because she believes Nancy will tell them "here's why Meri is right". Meri actually needs individual therapy, for the reasons you stated - she puts up walls, doesn't know how to interact, and doesn't "spit it out". Instead it comes out as bitchy and aggressive, because I think she stews about small, sometimes imagined, slights, and lets that build into resentment until she finally gets so angry she goes off on whoever it is she thinks slighted her.

Meri has problems getting along with ALL of her sister wives, and her husband. The common denominator there is MERI. If you're having problems with everyone in your life, maybe the problem is you.

(In no way do I mean this to sound like I think any of these other adults are blameless...they're not. Kody needs a good punch to the throat, pretty much on a daily basis, Robyn pulls some serious stealth-bitch stuff on Meri, etc. But if Meri really wants to work things out, she needs to realize you can't change other people, you can only change yourself and your reactions.)

Edited February 19, 2018 by Sasha888

[NotinKansasanymore]

Am I mistaken, cause I know they made a lot of comments in last night's episode like, politics is dumb, Mariah being much more liberal than the rest of the family, Meri refering to the family and Kody as a whole as Conservative, but at one point did Meri actually say, she was going to the march just to support Mariah, because Meri's politics are differrent?

My question is different than what?

In my opinion it is hypocritical for Meri and Janelle to walk in a march, if they politically vote against many of the issues that the march is supporting. Don't parade yourself as an ally for these causes and then secretly vote against them!

I'm not wanting to get into anyone's else's politics except for the Browns and what they discussed on last night's show.

As for Kody, at least he continues to be consistent in his misogynistic views on women's rights.

I don't understand his concern if this woman's march is too political, and him not wanting them to take a stance, but then the previews show him courting his entire family, and underage children, to march in a political fueled polygamous march? Huh?

So is he saying that their political views support a polygamous march, so he is okay with that, but not okay with the political views of the women's march?