S15.E10: Red Rum and Then Some

[carrps]

Dang, but Padma was nasty and sour this episode. Somone said she'd been ill during a lot of this season. Could that be it?

I'm warming to Carrie.

This didn't seem to be the time or the venue for Bruce. Sad.

[chiaros]

All the cheftestants brought up TWO plates to Room 217 in the Quickfire. They all made three plates in the kitchen, #3 being the (presumably) designated "Beauty Plate".  Yes, there appeared to be a "missing judge", but in at least one shot Padma was shown sitting at the table in Room 217 with TWO glasses of water but an EMPTY chair next to her. If there were actually two judges why would he/she NOT be sitting in that second chair as the two dishes were presented?  If there was indeed two judges then the editing in this case was very adroit. The mirror reflections as the cheftestants presented their plates (plural) were cropped/edited to eliminate judge#2, if he/she was there, but see my comment about the empty chair.  Did they "re-stage" the scenes here, "after the fact"? 

A montage of selected shots of every cheftestant in the QF either bringing up two plates to Room 217, or creating three plates in the kitchen (one of which would be the "beauty plate"):

 

An annotated shot of the view when the 1st cheftestant (Joe Sasta) walked into Room 217:

Edited February 9, 2018 by chiaros

[Emmeline]

1 hour ago, stacyasp said:

I agree there was someone there they really didn’t want us to see it was weird

I read that they did cut Chef John Besh out of the episode he taped because of the sexual harassment accusations against him and others in his restaurants. Have no idea which one it is though.

[Blonde Gator]

@chiaros  Thanks for the screen shots with Mustache Joe & Adrienne.  I missed that.

I really have no problem with the finalists at this point, and I am sure now that it's Joe Flamm coming back.   We have a few younger and emerging chefs (Joe S., Carrie, Adrienne), and more established, older and experienced chefs who already have their culinary vision firmly in place.  I'll be happy for any of them to win. 

My darkhorse is Adrienne.  I almost saw the lightbulb over her head go off this episode.  She knows she's an excellent technical chef, but heretofore she was really presenting her mentors' dishes, with subtle variations.  But we saw her take the "Colorado" part of the challenge, and think it through, adding her own particular strength (cooking perfect fish), making a yummy meat sauce pairing, and edit it to create her own vision.  IMO, any of the top three this week could have won the challenge.

Joe S. has always had the vision, but he's finally taken the criticism to heart...he has a full toolbag of techniques, but has issues with self-editing.  I also like him because he seems to be a team guy when challenges call for that....the lone wolves like Katsuji and Claudette just annoy me, not everything is about "YOU!".   Along with Joe S.'s learning to self-edit his dishes, he needs to self-edit his mouth.  I like that he's an optimist, but sheesh, he needs to get real!  I hope he outgrows his hipster personna.  He's likeable without it, and I suspect he hides behind it due to some sort of insecurity.

Carrie has always been one of the most inventive chefs of the season, and she's got some skills.  She just didn't have any confidence.  I didn't care for her initially because I thought the perky, sweet, and nice personna was a put-on, but can handwave that as editing early on.  It's become apparent that she has a huge heart, and is just a really nice person.  I hope she can prove that sometimes the good guys (and girls) CAN finish first.

Chris is a great chef, and has a unique culinary perspective.  He does best when he sticks to his own food....and he seems to have trouble matching his narrative about what "inspires him" to his story when he gets a little bit away from his own unique POV.   I admire him so for battling his personal demons, and for never, ever trying to toss the competition under the bus.  He oozes integrity.  Having said that, though, his only real flaw is that he's not a natural leader, for all of his other great qualities.    I don't know how the judges are supposed to quantify that, since they supposedly only judge the dishes in front of them. 

Joe Flamm is one of those "thinkers" I'm usually raving about.  He's not put up hardly any really bad dishes, except for the dish that sent him packing in the Sudden Death QF.  It may have been the exhaustion of Restaurant Wars, because he's been cooking like a madman in LCK.  He's pretty much got the whole package, IMO, leader, kind, good POV, etc.  Plus I have always had a thing about "bear" guys.  LOL.  I suppose I'd guess he's my favorite.

 I always look forward to this time in the season, when we've gotten to know the individual chefs fairly well, and TC puts on some non-gimmicky challenges, where we get to see the chefs cook some of their own food, within general parameters like "how being here has influenced you".  I hated that one season when one of the finalists had to cook something to hark back to Morimoto's childhood....that kind of "parameter" isn't fair to all of the chefs, IMO.  Here's to hoping they keep it both challenging and fair from here to the Season Finale.  Bon Appetit!

[chiaros]

8 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

I read that they did cut Chef John Besh out of the episode he taped because of the sexual harassment accusations against him and others in his restaurants. Have no idea which one it is though.

It was, at the least, the "Olympic Dreams" episode. There have been many commentaries and screen shots taken by various people on other forums illustrating the "residues" of John Besh's presence in that episode.

Was he also in this episode - Red Rum?

Or was it another "disgraced chef"?

Edited February 9, 2018 by chiaros

[Blonde Gator]

9 minutes ago, chiaros said:

It was, at the least, the "Olympic Dreams" episode. There have been many commentaries and screen shots taken by various people here on other forums illustrating the "residues" of John Besh's presence in that episode.

Was he also in this episode - Red Rum?

Or was it another "disgraced chef"?

I'm not a Redditer, but I'd bet there's an answer there.  Anyone checked that yet?

[Kathira]

Yeah, Bruce really seemed like he hit the wall. Joe redeemed himself for some bottom dishes recently. The Quickfire was fun, even if most of the dishes weren't great. I loved Chris and his pastry experience - the Creamy Brown Brother, Doctor Chocolate - too funny. 

[jackjill89]

Chris is my favorite of those left and he seems to have lost his way. Adrienne is so technical and precise, but she doesn't seem to have a fire or voice yet. I would love to see her in a few years. Carrie is annoying, Joe S is even more annoying... Glad Bruce is gone. I didn't like that he was buddies with everyone. 

I'm done with this season. I'm not really excited about anything anymore. It all seems very lackluster. 

[Special K]

It seems like they are going directly to the finale?  Didn't they used to send them home and then regroup after some weeks for the finale, often in another location? 

I always thought that gap in time helped the finalists get their bearings, rest, gain some perspective, and sometimes research the cuisine of wherever they were going.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Special K

[Eulipian 5k]

1 hour ago, chiaros said:

An annotated shot of the view when the 1st cheftestant (Joe Sasta) walked into Room 217:

Edited 1 hour ago by chiaros.

Wouldn't it have been awkward to have another "judge" in Padma's room awaiting er, breakfast? Unless her ex is back hiding from another fatwa.

[Wings]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Google food people who’ve been accused of misconduct to figure out who the missing judge was.

John Besh, of course!  I had forgotten he was part of this.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

44 minutes ago, Special K said:

It seems like they are going directly to the finale?  Didn't they used to send them home and then regroup after some weeks for the finale, often in another location? 

I always thought that gap in time helped the finalists get their bearings, rest, gain some perspective, and sometimes research the cuisine of wherever they were going.

It seems like they are doing what they've generally done if memory serves -- finish up in the main location, let some time past and then relocate for the final four (or five or six or whatever) in a different location.

In this case, Mustache Joe, Carrie, Adrianne, Chris and the LCK winner will be competing in Telluride.

[bobbobbob199]

2 hours ago, chiaros said:

It was, at the least, the "Olympic Dreams" episode. There have been many commentaries and screen shots taken by various people on other forums illustrating the "residues" of John Besh's presence in that episode.

Was he also in this episode - Red Rum?

Or was it another "disgraced chef"?

 

It was pastry chef Johnny Iuzzini. His name was named as a guest judge this season way back in October. "Culinary guest stars for the season include Curtis Stone, Naomi Pomeroy, Richard Blais, Bruce and Eric Bromberg, David Kinch, Adam Perry Lang, Johnny Iuzzini, Wylie Dufresne, Paul Liebrandt, Michael Voltaggio, Bryan Voltaggio, Chris Cosentino and Nilou Motamed." He is a pastry chef, so it makes sense this is the episode. His name even fits in the order of appearance (right after Adam Perry Lang, and we'll see Wylie in the next episode!) I will say Bravo did an amazing job of editing...good catch, but I doubt 99.9% of viewers would have noticed.

Edited February 9, 2018 by bobbobbob199

[dleighg]

So how did they kick him out of the images? Did they re-stage Padma with the empty chair? But why would they? Why not just zoom in on Padma, and why would there be an empty chair to begin with? Wouldn't Johnny have been, you know, sitting in it? It does make sense that Johnny would do dessert. But  I'm otherwise very confused. 

[LeighLeigh]

I'm too lazy to google. Why was he cut? 

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, LeighLeigh said:

I'm too lazy to google. Why was he cut? 

Sexual harassment allegations, it lead to ABC to pull the Great Ameican Baking show enirely after airing two episodes because he was one of the two judges.

[All That Jazz]

I assumed the empty chair was for the "ghost." That was the theme, haunted hotel, Stephen King, the Shining, etc.

[NYCFree]

In his memoir "Yes Chef," Marcus Samuelsson discusses his ever present notebook where he writes up new dish ideas, mistakes he has made, flavors he'd like to try, etc. It's interesting how much Adrienne has learned from her mentors.

I thought Carrie was robbed of the win. The judges said Joe's dish was his best dish (of the ones Joe has served this season). On the other hand, Carrie's dish was the most flavorful of the dishes served that night.

[Maverick]

I too assume the chair was for the ghost.  My guess is it was part of the original challenge description and they cut it out.  Probably because it didn't end up being a 1:15 episode.   

 If there had been another judge who had been digitally erased (extremely expensive) the why wouldn't they have erased the glass of water too?  And if they reshot the scenes, why would they bring I the empty chair and water to highlight it. Occam's Razor. 

[biakbiak]

23 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

In his memoir "Yes Chef," Marcus Samuelsson discusses his ever present notebook where he writes up new dish ideas, mistakes he has made, flavors he'd like to try, etc. It's interesting how much Adrienne has learned from her mentor.

They give all the chefs notebooks at the beginning of the season, most of the chefs use them.

21 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I too assume the chair was for the ghost.  My guess is it was part of the original challenge description and they cut it out.  Probably because it didn't end up being a 1:15 episode.   

 If there had been another judge who had been digitally erased (extremely expensive) the why wouldn't they have erased the glass of water too?  And if they reshot the scenes, why would they bring I the empty chair and water to highlight it. Occam's Razor. 

I would agree with that if it wasn't a pastry challenge and Johnny wasnt listed as a guest judge. I wonder of they planned to insert him like a ghostly figure, if so tgey freaking lucked out with both episodes. Also, some of the chefs looked to the right of Padma when describing their dishes, particularly Carrie.

Edited February 9, 2018 by biakbiak

[Tess23]

I'd love to see a finale of Brother, Adrienne, and Carrie. I'm enjoying their food and am happy that Adrienne is finally hitting her stride.

Some years ago, Mr. Tess and I stayed overnight at the Stanley. Gorgeous public spaces in a wonderful setting, but dang...those long winding hallways upstairs. Literally kept waiting for the twins to appear. After we arrived, I set off to find ice. When I walked back into the room, Mr. Tess jumped out of the walk-in closet and yelled boo. Possibly some slight pants-wetting ensued. Neither of us slept much that night. 

[chiaros]

1 hour ago, bobbobbob199 said:

It was pastry chef Johnny Iuzzini. His name was named as a guest judge this season way back in October. "Culinary guest stars for the season include Curtis Stone, Naomi Pomeroy, Richard Blais, Bruce and Eric Bromberg, David Kinch, Adam Perry Lang, Johnny Iuzzini, Wylie Dufresne, Paul Liebrandt, Michael Voltaggio, Bryan Voltaggio, Chris Cosentino and Nilou Motamed." He is a pastry chef, so it makes sense this is the episode. His name even fits in the order of appearance (right after Adam Perry Lang, and we'll see Wylie in the next episode!) I will say Bravo did an amazing job of editing...good catch, but I doubt 99.9% of viewers would have noticed.

Very good deduction. Quite likely he *was* the apparently missing figure.

It's possible he opened the door for each of the cheftestants and so would have been either by the side or behind the door as each of the cheftestants came into the room. That would account for that shot of Padma sitting alone at the table with two chairs and two glasses when Joe Sasto entered. Then, the editors might have simply scrubbed all shots of him where he was still behind or besides the cheftestants and before he sat down at the table, including all those "mirror shots"; and of course all shots of him and Padma at the table went bye-bye. Ditto the dialog etc got picked over - hence the slight stiltedness of it.

[dleighg]

11 minutes ago, chiaros said:

including all those "mirror shots";

what are the mirror shots? Were there any screen shots of that? I love this detailed sleuthing!

[chiaros]

2 minutes ago, dleighg said:

what are the mirror shots? Were there any screen shots of that? I love this detailed sleuthing!

See, for example, the middle-left and bottom-left panels in that 6-screenshot-montage in my post above, where Bruce and Chris were standing there just inside the room with two plates in their hands and facing towards Padma-who-was-reflected-in-the-mirror behind them (Bruce and Chris). Assuming it was Johnny Iuzzini who is the "missing person", I speculate he may be walking back towards the table on the LEFT side of both scenes and not within view of the camera (after all, his chair would be on the left side of the table) and before his reflection turned up in the mirror - and any subsequent shots where Bruce/Chris and the reflections of Johnny-plus-Padma were captured would then be cut out. Again, this is conjecture, of course.

[dleighg]

^the film editors really earned their salaries, didn't they? :)

[LeighLeigh]

Awesome sleuthing! Between this and spoilers in other threads, I am so impressed!

[Wings]

Bravo for sleuthing!  Well done. 

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

It was pastry chef Johnny Iuzzini.

Ahhh, thank you! The part of the QF that seemed strange to me was when she was introducing the challenge in the hotel lobby area - there were odd cuts to a close up of her face and obvious voiceover work. It totally makes sense in hindsight he came in after she initially welcomed the chefs and they were able to cut him out of the scene altogether. 

[LeighLeigh]

Regarding timelines: everyone's social media has been consistent with a gap from May 3, 2017 - June 22, 2017, give or take a day (with the exception of LeeAnne who was absent for ten days in May). This probably coincides with the competition dates and, I'm assuming, the finale.

I can investigate further, if there was another gap in case the finale was at a later date, but I don't think that it was. 

[mlp]

Does anyone know who the top 5 Fan Favorites were?  I wasn't paying attention at that point and the list went by before it registered with me.  My guess is Fatima will be #1 partly in sympathy with her medical problems and partly because everyone liked her before that ever came up.  

[Totale]

On 2/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, avecsans said:

Stfu, dude, and that also applies to Padma, who of course has felt the air thicken in haunted hotel rooms.

No kidding, we were all "WTF was that?"  While making their best record (Anthem of the Sun) one of the Grateful Dead legendarily drove away the straight company engineer they'd been assigned by requesting "The sound of thick air".  With her red-rimmed eye makeup at QF Padma looked like she was even more baked than she normally does, maybe she really was channeling the Dead there at Haunt Hotel.

[violet and green]

Why are people so proud of themselves for being insensitives?! I though it was an on-theme comment for Padma to make. I enjoyed her judging, and found those historical details really interesting - but it did feel a bit off just with just her on her own,

[Blonde Gator]

27 minutes ago, mlp said:

Does anyone know who the top 5 Fan Favorites were?  I wasn't paying attention at that point and the list went by before it registered with me.  My guess is Fatima will be #1 partly in sympathy with her medical problems and partly because everyone liked her before that ever came up.  

Here's the Bravo Fan Favorite page:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/vote-for-your-favorite-top-chef-cheftestant

Last night they had the rankings up, but I can't find it now, Sorry.  Fatima was ahead. 

BTW, I loathe this years Bravo TC website, it sucks!

[spiderpig]

Yay The Stanley!  I love hotels with history.  Mr. pig and I were there 20 years ago and I can't wait to rewatch this episode with him.

I'm sure Bruce is a really nice guy and can cook with the best, but he really wasn't feeling it this season.  I'm kinda rooting for the wimmens or Chris - or whoever comes back from LCK.

[Blonde Gator]

17 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Yay The Stanley!  I love hotels with history.  Mr. pig and I were there 20 years ago and I can't wait to rewatch this episode with him.

I'm sure Bruce is a really nice guy and can cook with the best, but he really wasn't feeling it this season.  I'm kinda rooting for the wimmens or Chris - or whoever comes back from LCK.

LOL....anyone but the Hipster, huh? 

[spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

LOL....anyone but the Hipster, huh? 

I shouldn't be guilty of lookism, but that stupid mustache just rubs me the wrong way. (Ugh - did I just say what I think I did?  Eww!)

[Souris]

1 hour ago, mlp said:

Does anyone know who the top 5 Fan Favorites were?  I wasn't paying attention at that point and the list went by before it registered with me.  My guess is Fatima will be #1 partly in sympathy with her medical problems and partly because everyone liked her before that ever came up.  

I remember the top 3 were Fatima, Chris and Carrie, in that order.

[bravofan27]

I love Chris, and I can't speak to his leadership personally (duh), but given he got through each group challenge standing, I'd say his leadership skills are fine and he works well with others. No one had a problem with him at any point. Lest us not forget his motivating and inspiring, "My man!" that pepper all the challenges. :)

In fact, according to this list; https://blog.taskque.com/characteristics-good-leaders/ Chris pretty much nails each point, and I'd even argue he possesses these traits more than any of the others. Being loud and outspoken doesn't mean good leadership. Some people just love hearing themselves speak (ahem, Tonya, ahem). 

I was beyond bothered by the two plates, and I couldn't figure out who was getting the other plate. I don't think it was besh since he was in a different episode and they only edited him out of one. I really want to know. The ghost idea is funny, but if that were true I'm sure they would have played that up.

Edited February 10, 2018 by bravofan27

[chiaros]

10 hours ago, dleighg said:

^the film editors really earned their salaries, didn't they? :) 

Heh. They may not have scrubbed every bit of the "missing person" out - if you look carefully again at that screenshot of Bruce presenting his plates that I incorporated into that montage,  there is a partial outline of the reflection in the mirror of a head of a person sitting next to Padma:

[LennieBriscoe]

16 hours ago, All That Jazz said:

I assumed the empty chair was for the "ghost." That was the theme, haunted hotel, Stephen King, the Shining, etc.

I thought this, too.  Why leave a plate and a glass?

ETA: Ha! They had to account for the chefs' TWO plates! Nobody could re-edit enough to have it look like each chef was carrying only one plate! And maybe that IS Johnny's pompadour!

Edited February 10, 2018 by LennieBriscoe

[noveltylibrary]

On 2/9/2018 at 7:48 AM, hkit said:

Warning: 40 something old lady rant incoming.

I don't understand the need for kids Joe's age to drop that they get high into casual conversations with alarming regularity. Not because I have a problem with weed (I don't), but because it is soooo effing boring! Smoking up isn't a substitute for personality. It isn't taboo, interesting, or even particularly unique. I smoked my fair share in the 90s; even my straight edged parents Cheech and Chonged their way through the 60s/70s. You want to smoke? Knock yourself out. But forcing it into the conversation is getting so tired.

end rant.

50-something here to tell you you're not old ;)  I'm kind of disappointed in his saying that.  I've had a little crush on him and that kind of crushed it.

Bruce really bugged me by saying he came to win and if he didn't it was all a waste of time.  Great message to send to your new child :o 

[chiaros]

5 hours ago, chiaros said:

Heh. They may not have scrubbed every bit of the "missing person" out - if you look carefully again at that screenshot of Bruce presenting his plates that I incorporated into that montage,  there is a partial outline of the reflection in the mirror of a head of a person sitting next to Padma:

 

1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

ETA: Ha! They had to account for the chefs' TWO plates! Nobody could re-edit enough to have it look like each chef was carrying only one plate! And maybe that IS Johnny's pompadour!

It could be, it could be!

Just for the hell of it, I went back (again) and took a few more screenshots of when Bruce walked into the bedroom. This time, I took note that the door was left open, so he just walked in; and nobody had to open the door and be "hidden" from the camera. It seems pretty certain there was someone in that second chair. It was no ghost, unless the ghost assumed corporeal form. :-)  Was it Johnny Iuzzini? The silhouette snippets seen don't negate it...

Note the part-head, the part-head-part-face, and the part-head-shoulder in the shots.  :-D  Yep, there was someone sitting there.

[dleighg]

So did they reshoot the scenes with Padma sitting at the table (with the other plate and glass)?

[chiaros]

17 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So did they reshoot the scenes with Padma sitting at the table (with the other plate and glass)?

I am thinking - no. That shot was when Joe Sasto presented, as the first to go up to the bedroom. The immediately preceding shots from the episode show that the door was closed, he had a plate in both hands, and the door was opened for him. That, as I postulated earlier in this thread, was when Iuzzini-or-whoever-it-was got up from the table to open the door – and the camera then simply captured Joe S entering the room with the table in front of him with the second chair unoccupied (and the second glass on the table) because the second-chair-occupant was still AT the door, but out of the view of the camera.

[meep.meep]

19 hours ago, bobbobbob199 said:

It was pastry chef Johnny Iuzzini. His name was named as a guest judge this season way back in October. "Culinary guest stars for the season include Curtis Stone, Naomi Pomeroy, Richard Blais, Bruce and Eric Bromberg, David Kinch, Adam Perry Lang, Johnny Iuzzini, Wylie Dufresne, Paul Liebrandt, Michael Voltaggio, Bryan Voltaggio, Chris Cosentino and Nilou Motamed." He is a pastry chef, so it makes sense this is the episode. His name even fits in the order of appearance (right after Adam Perry Lang, and we'll see Wylie in the next episode!) I will say Bravo did an amazing job of editing...good catch, but I doubt 99.9% of viewers would have noticed.

Excellent work!  To quote someone from the previous place:  Never underestimate the eagle eyed forum posters!

[bravofan27]

Johnny Iuzzini! The defamed and shamed pastry chef! That makes so much sense, thank you to all that solved that so quickly. 

[Blonde Gator]

@bobbobbob199

I suggested earlier that the "answer" to the mystery person in Padma's room would probably be found on Reddit.  Well, I looked....and they linked to YOUR post!  You win the internet this week.  Thank you.

ETA:  And now I've discovered it was our very own Chiaros!  Woo hoo Chiaros, and Us!

Edited February 11, 2018 by Blonde Gator
More info

[PamelaMaeSnap]

14 hours ago, Souris said:

I remember the top 3 were Fatima, Chris and Carrie, in that order.

That was all I caught as well ... I think Fati is a lock for this because of her sheer likability combined with her story, and I'd have no quibble with that, but that said I just threw all 40 of my votes to Chris because he is my Top Chef Boyfriend this season and I want that lemonade fried chicken recipe!

[Bosstonz16]

Before I even noticed that chefs were carrying two plates for seemingly one judge Padma, I noticed a lot of extreme close-ups of Padma as she announced the challenge parameters; it also sounded like a lot of her audio had been re-dubbed.  The extreme closeups and dubbing were back when she was announcing the results. I definitely could tell something was off, but had no clue what guest judge was missing.  Makes sense now!

[MerBearHou]

45 minutes ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

That was all I caught as well ... I think Fati is a lock for this because of her sheer likability combined with her story, and I'd have no quibble with that, but that said I just threw all 40 of my votes to Chris because he is my Top Chef Boyfriend this season and I want that lemonade fried chicken recipe!

Ditto!  I like Fati very much and certainly cheer her on in every way, but Chris is my guy too and I threw all 40 of my votes to him.  Carrie and Joe Flamm are right up there for me as well.  Just good folks.