S02.E14: Super Bowl Sunday

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I think she was mostly just trying to not completely fall apart in front of them, to make them feel safe enough to fall apart if they needed to.  And she was giving him time to process the bad news himself.  

I was surprised the hospital let her leave and drive off after Jack died. Surely they would have called someone for her?  A minister, a family member? I don't think they would have thought she was safe to be driving.

I think we will see more of Rebecca's grief (and saw a bit in the car and the hospital) but losing complete control in front of her children would not serve them well, in my opinion. 

I suppose it depends what you mean by losing complete control.  Breaking down crying, crying really hard when your spouse/your children's father has just died, I categorize as completely normal and not something to be hidden.  I also thought it was just bossy of her to tell Miguel what to do when he has already been with the kids at his own house, and that was his best friend.  But I'll cut her a bit of slack for being gobsmacked by all the events of the night. 

As far as the hospital letting her leave, they can't prevent her unless she is clearly impaired.  Suggest, offer to call a cab or someone else, but they can't keep her there.  I personally don't think she was in good enough shape to drive attentively, though. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by ShadowFacts

[DuckyinKy]

Quote

I was not a fan of how Rebecca told Miguel to take a walk if he had to so the kids wouldn't see him upset.  What? What else would he be?  And how she had to be strong for her kids now, and that apparently meant no crying in front of them.  I never like that way of trying to not have your kids see you feeling x, y or z.  It's not helpful. 

I have to say that was a great direction. My mom told me my dad died and she was strong and stoic. Less than a year later, my older brother was killed in a car accident, and what I have nightmares about is not his funeral, but she was alone in the room when the chaplain showed up at the door to tell her, By the time I got down the hallway, she was kneeling on the floor. My mother NEVER did that. Seeing your mother grieve makes you want to punch the world, it just does. How she found joy afterward I will never know but she did God bless her.  Rebecca knew that as soon as she turned the knob of the door, the lives of her children would be changed forever. She needed to do that and I applaud that. 

[Optimist48]

58 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think what I minded the most was how Rebecca kind of perfunctorily told the two kids then went off and did her own thing for a few minutes, then was driving around (again!) alone and stopped by the house for more crying.  No one on TV has a support system, as in friends or family, to come help in a crisis.  I mean, she had Jack's friend Miguel, but the doctor even asked who he could call for her and apparently Rebecca has no one else?  Same with Randall's bio-mom.  All she had was William.  No one else even noticed she had a full term pregnancy and the baby disappeared.  

I would be glued to my teen's side for the first 48 hours after delivering that sort of news.  And my various close friends and family members would be all over us.  Maybe days later I'd drive by the shell of the house and have a private fit.  That's just me, but we all have our reactions to these shows and I'm not saying mine is more valid than any others or that no mom would react how Rebecca was written.  At least they showed her in 'mom crisis mode' for about a minute.  But if I recall right, she didn't even hug the kids and cry with them, did she?  

I disagree it was perfunctory.   We didn’t hear what she said, but they showed Rebecca comforting and hugging both Kate and Randall after telling them the news.  And of course the final scene showed Rebecca with her arms wrapped around all three kids on Miguel’s couch.  I honestly could not blame Rebecca for needing a few minutes to scream/cry in anguish, while also sparing her kids from seeing that.  

Edited February 6, 2018 by Optimist48

[JDAlexander]

Jack's death scene and Rebecca's subsequent disbelief, while she concentrates on her candy bar, was a flashback for me to the series Thirtysomething when Gary died.  Hope had gone to a vending machine and bought a candy bar, Michael came over to her and said Gary was dead.  Hope thought he was joking and playfully hit him while she ate her candy.  Gary had become a lot like Jack, superhuman and above reproach.  He was kind, thoughtful, understanding and apparently every woman's dream man.  The character's death had weeks of lead-in, and the episode was much anticipated by fans, as no one knew how the character would die.

I must say, however, that Mandy Moore did a spectacular job in her scene.  

Edited February 6, 2018 by JDAlexander

[DianeDobbler]

On 2/5/2018 at 3:59 AM, LeisureTime said:

Was I the only one who heard a code called over the speaker at the hospital? It wasn't overwhelming, just barely there in the background as Rebecca was on the phone.

 

Yes. They were trying not to be all soap opera with the emergency in the background - the actors and energy were focused, but in the manner of people who do this all the time. The announcement sounded like "Code 2" to me, but could have been "Code Blue" because it had the same focused, professional tone, not histrionic.

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

And if he wanted to do something fun for her, he should have asked her what she thought would be fun. Just because she's a kid doesn't mean she has to happily go along with her father's whims.

Again, it was not for her, and it was not a "whim. "  It was not about what Tess wanted to do or thought was fun.  This was for Randall.  He wanted to spend time with Tess watching the Super Bowl because that is something that his family did on that day.  As for my choice of the word "entertained," I meant that Tess's wishes were not the ones to be entertained.  She was being asked to participate in an event that held importance to her father.  She was old enough for Beth to pull her aside and say something like, "Look, I know you don't understand (or even like football), but this game is important to your dad.  It's what he used to do with his family when he was your age. So, we'll watch it for awhile and then we'll watch the Puppy Bowl."  Randall erred in how he put the party together, but I do not agree that he was asking Tess to do something terrible.  He was simply asking his daughter to participate in something that was important to him.

Jack said that this was the last Super Bowl that they would have with the kids, meaning that Kate, Kevin, and Randall had spent time watching the SB with their parents in previous years.  They didn't do it when they were 17, but they had done it before.  That's all Randall was asking of Tess.

[Ohmo]

6 hours ago, cameron said:

What doesn't make sense to me is why they didn't use the windows in the individual rooms to get out instead of running through a burning house.

I thought I remember Jack telling Kate that they couldn't jump from her window because he thought the distance was too high.

[DianeDobbler]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

  In our area awhile back a firefighter got all of the people out of a home, then went back in and saved a cat.  It was maybe not received well by the guy's boss back at the firehouse, it was probably against protocol. 

I don't know, it happens a lot. I think they try to save cats and dogs. I'm not certain, but I have read stories and seen reports, and this seems the norm. " If the firefighter went back in, it was probably a risk he was equipped to undertake. I've seen a couple of fires where civilians would be crazy to be near it, but the fire fighters are moving in, through and around. They're dressed for it, I also think they're trained to know just how stable the floor, walls, fire path, etc. are in a given situation. Obviously if it's an inferno where you're going to lose humans, they're not going to be going back for the pets.

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Again, it was not for her, and it was not a "whim. "  It was not about what Tess wanted to do or thought was fun.  This was for Randall.

I was just replying to the post where you said:

Quote

Tess is old enough to be taken aside and told, "Yeah, your dad just wants to spend some time with you on this day because it's an important day to him.  That's why he invited your friends.  He's trying to make it fun for you." 

And pointed out the contradiction in that.

[Ohmo]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

I was just replying to the post where you said:

And pointed out the contradiction in that.

Well, to each her own.  There is no contradiction in that for me,  Both can be true.  Randall can expect Tess to participate in the day while also inviting her friends so as to make that day fun for her.  That doesn't mean that her wishes and wants should always dictate every single moment.  I had plenty of family events that I was expected to go to as a child.  Sometimes, my parents bought us ice cream on the way home.  They were making an effort to make the day fun, but my siblings and I still had to attend the event.  In my opinion, the same principle applies here.

[luna1122]

51 minutes ago, JDAlexander said:

Jack's death scene and Rebecca's subsequent disbelief, while she concentrates on her candy bar, was a flashback for me to the series Thirtysomething when Gary died.  Hope had gone to a vending machine and bought a candy bar, Michael came over to her and said Gary was dead.  Hope thought he was joking and playfully hit him while she ate her candy.  Gary had become a lot like Jack, superhuman and above reproach.  He was kind, thoughtful, understanding and apparently every woman's dream man.  The character's death had weeks of lead-in, and the episode was much anticipated by fans, as no one knew how the character would die.

I must say, however, that Mandy Moore did a spectacular job in her scene.  

 

I mentioned that thirtysomething scene upthread, it reminded me so much of it, to the extent that I wonder if Ken Olin had any hand in it. He directed that specific scene in thirtysomething. An homage, or a rip off? Both, maybe. However, my memory of it was that we were all completely gobsmacked by Gary's death. We all expected Nancy to die, and were blindsided when Gary did. I remember my two best girlfriends calling me on the phone and we were all sobbing. (whereas, this show never makes me cry. Not that thirtysomething was an especially superior show, or at all. I'm probably just dead inside. Tho...if the dog had died,  I'd have been on the floor weeping)

A coworker's husband is a firefighter and always strives to save the pets. Many firefighters do, unless the house is too severely compromised. I have no idea if the Pearson's house would have been considered too compromised for them to go in for the dog.

 

You all suck. All this candy bar talk just sent me to the vending machine in the lobby. No Milky ways, but a Snickers just got demolished.

Edited February 6, 2018 by luna1122

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

Empress, ever had a Milky Way Midnight?  It's my favorite candy bar, along with York Peppermint Patties.  I have both in my desk drawer right now!

I have! Delish. I love caramel so Three Musketeers bars lack something for me. I don't DISlike them, but I'll always choose Milky Ways over them if given the choice.

22 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I thought I remember Jack telling Kate that they couldn't jump from her window because he thought the distance was too high.

He did - he told Kate explicitly that they had to go to his room because it was too high to jump from hers. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Empress1

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I was surprised the hospital let her leave and drive off after Jack died. Surely they would have called someone for her?  A minister, a family member? I don't think they would have thought she was safe to be driving.

Maybe a social worker would have been called if only to discuss what she wanted done with Jack?  

Where are Rebecca's friends?  What about her mother (even though they did not get along)? 

[ShadowFacts]

35 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

It is very nutty to me how Randall has appropriated another annual event to be all about his dead dad.  

I felt he was channeling Jack a lot in this episode (and in general).  Taking things to the nth degree with the party, calling Tess his princess, even the conversation with her was much like Jack's with Kevin in the hospital when he broke his leg.  He goes very intense with rituals and gestures just like his dad. 

[Ohmo]

44 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I have! Delish. I love caramel so Three Musketeers bars lack something for me. I don't DISlike them, but I'll always choose Milky Ways over them if given the choice.

He did - he told Kate explicitly that they had to go to his room because it was too high to jump from hers. 

 

I LOVE Milky Way Midnights....because according to my family, I'm a freak who loves dark chocolate.  Plus, the "fluff"/nougat is different.  I prefer Milky Way midnights to regular Milky Ways.  I won't say no to a 3 Muskeeteers, though.

Quote

I have to say that was a great direction. My mom told me my dad died and she was strong and stoic. Less than a year later, my older brother was killed in a car accident, and what I have nightmares about is not his funeral, but she was alone in the room when the chaplain showed up at the door to tell her, By the time I got down the hallway, she was kneeling on the floor. My mother NEVER did that. Seeing your mother grieve makes you want to punch the world, it just does. How she found joy afterward I will never know but she did God bless her.  Rebecca knew that as soon as she turned the knob of the door, the lives of her children would be changed forever. She needed to do that and I applaud that. 

I was OK with that, too.  I don't think it necessarily precludes Rebecca from ever showing her grief in front of her kids, just maybe not in that moment. Jack had just died.  Rebecca had become a widow and a single parent in the blink of an eye.  Kevin needed to be told.  There were so many things to do.  I can understand why she wanted to be strong in that moment.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ohmo

[kili]

Quote

Tess is old enough to be taken aside and told, "Yeah, your dad just wants to spend some time with you on this day because it's an important day to him. 

So far, we've seen two big days and they are all about Randall's dad.  On Thanksgiving, every second seems to be dictated by what happened on one Thanksgiving 25 years ago. Now, Superbowl is a command performance where you must watch football because that is what Randall's dad would like. For all we know, Easter events are dictated by what Jack did in 1998 (that was the year Louis found and ate all the chocolates so Dad made it fun while we waited for 5 hours in the vet waiting room to see if Louis would live. Okay, who wants to play balance the dog cookie on their nose? Why, no Miss Receptionist, we don't have a pet at this clinic. This is about my Dead Dad. Show some respect) while Fourth of July we celebrate the day in 1990 when we all had poison ivy (Dad made it fun by painting pictures with the calamine lotion. Here, what do you think that is? It's a bunny!). Goodness knows what rituals they have to follow on Christmas day. I expect teen Tess is really going to resent Jack and his traditions.

Tess is 9 and doesn't want to invite her friends to watch the Superbowl. Why doesn't Randall take a page from Jack and not force his kids to attend a Superbowl party if they have other things (like going to the movie with their girlfriend) they would rather do? I can kind of see wanting to watch the Superbowl as a family - I can't see making Tess have a party with her friends for Superbowl. Randall is kind of oblivious to other people's needs.

[Kohola3]

Flames racing through my house and right toward me - better believe I'd beat feet before it ever occurred to me to make a phone call.  And that's what they tell you in fire safety classes - get the hell out and worry about everything else later.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, kili said:

So far, we've seen two big days and they are all about Randall's dad.  On Thanksgiving, every second seems to be dictated by what happened on one Thanksgiving 25 years ago. Now, Superbowl is a command performance where you must watch football because that is what Randall's dad would like. For all we know, Easter events are dictated by what Jack did in 1998 (that was the year Louis found and ate all the chocolates so Dad made it fun while we waited for 5 hours in the vet waiting room to see if Louis would live. Okay, who wants to play balance the dog cookie on their nose? Why, no Miss Receptionist, we don't have a pet at this clinic. This is about my Dead Dad. Show some respect) while Fourth of July we celebrate the day in 1990 when we all had poison ivy (Dad made it fun by painting pictures with the calamine lotion. Here, what do you think that is? It's a bunny!). Goodness knows what rituals they have to follow on Christmas day. I expect teen Tess is really going to resent Jack and his traditions.

Tess is 9 and doesn't want to invite her friends to watch the Superbowl. Why doesn't Randall take a page from Jack and not force his kids to attend a Superbowl party if they have other things (like going to the movie with their girlfriend) they would rather do? I can kind of see wanting to watch the Superbowl as a family - I can't see making Tess have a party with her friends for Superbowl. Randall is kind of oblivious to other people's needs.

While I get your point and agree with it, Jack wasn't doing anything Easter of 1998.

[Ohmo]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

You might be on to something.  I have a cousin who has always seems to have any male around her wrapped around her little finger....cousins, uncles, boyfriends, etc.  The thing is she is not what you would call conventionally attractive, to be honest she is actually not as pretty as Kate.  We had other cousins in are family that some would consider the "beauties", but she always the one that had a way with the guys.  The funny thing was if you pointed it out to the guys that they were being manipulated, they would get angry at you and point out how she was the sweetest most kindest girl in the world.

This dynamic exists very close to home in my own family, and you're exactly right that the guy in question reacted very negatively to the suggestion that he was being manipulated. About Kate, I will say that I don't think she's aware that she's doing it.  Some women do it intentionally as a calculated move.  I don't feel that way about Kate because she'll verbalize things later like "How did I miss this" or she'll apologize to Toby after being reminded that she wasn't the only one to suffer because of the miscarriage.  In my own situation, I'd say there is cunning involved.  With Kate, I think she's just very self-absorbed and tremendously focused on her own trials and travails.  I'd like her to be reminded about work, be that for Kevin or something else.  Kate no longer has any agency that benefits anyone else, and she wasn't that way at the beginning of the series.

[Jillybean]

I rewatched the episode today. Some have mentioned that it was light outside during Kevin's visit to the tree and his call with Rebecca. Indeed it was, something I hadn't noticed upon first viewing. When he calls her, she is already watching the game, and the sun is still fairly high in the sky.  The game started at 6:30 pm ET and sunset was around 5:15.  Also, he makes it back in time to watch the rest of the game with her. This doesn't add up if the tree is in Pittsburgh and she is somewhere in NJ. 

I don't have any answers, just questions.

[Dowel Jones]

Regarding the sirens and the arrival of the fire department, keep in mind that sirens are not always audible for a long distance, especially considering topography.  Engine operators are told repeatedly that, when approaching intersections, always assume that no one around you can hear the siren or see the red lights.  So, a mile away and the Pearson's might not even hear the sirens yet (in real life).  Also, as a former dispatcher, it takes a little time to get the information from the caller, dispatch the call, and a minute or two for the resources to get on the road.  The closest ones might be involved in another call somewhere else, also, so that call goes to the next closest.  Obviously, this is all speculation.  It's enough that the show was written such that there would be both short and long term cause and effect from the fire. 

Along those lines, I wondered later whether part of Kevin's dismal post tragedy behaviors are a result of his absence from the fire, and his feeling that, if he had been there, he could have been the hero he was meant to be on the football field, and everyone's life would have been changed forever. 

[DianeDobbler]

I don't believe she was fully expecting an empty bed. Actors are on set before the red light goes on, they know what's on set. The lighting and angles were set up to reflect Jack's body in the glass while staying on her face, and she had to stand so as not to block it. So that's misleading. Maybe she expected an empty bed before they set up the scene, but before she went to act it, she knew.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Regarding the sirens and the arrival of the fire department, keep in mind that sirens are not always audible for a long distance, especially considering topography.  Engine operators are told repeatedly that, when approaching intersections, always assume that no one around you can hear the siren or see the red lights.  So, a mile away and the Pearson's might not even hear the sirens yet (in real life).  Also, as a former dispatcher, it takes a little time to get the information from the caller, dispatch the call, and a minute or two for the resources to get on the road.  The closest ones might be involved in another call somewhere else, also, so that call goes to the next closest.  Obviously, this is all speculation.  It's enough that the show was written such that there would be both short and long term cause and effect from the fire. 

Along those lines, I wondered later whether part of Kevin's dismal post tragedy behaviors are a result of his absence from the fire, and his feeling that, if he had been there, he could have been the hero he was meant to be on the football field, and everyone's life would have been changed forever. 

It would be doubly sad if this is the case, because with his broken leg, had Kevin been in the basement, he would have been more of a liability than an asset, and probably would have perished - and maybe Jack and/or Rebecca along with him in trying to save him.

[Ohmo]

16 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Along those lines, I wondered later whether part of Kevin's dismal post tragedy behaviors are a result of his absence from the fire, and his feeling that, if he had been there, he could have been the hero he was meant to be on the football field, and everyone's life would have been changed forever. 

That would be fascinating to explore and very true to Kevin as a character.  He's always been that type with helping Kate out, and I had forgotten that he was the one who left his play and went to find Randall when Randall has his recent mental issue.  The only person that Kevin hasn't done that with in the family is Rebecca, whom we know told us that he went away from, not toward, after Jack died.  As others have said, I think Kevin's trying to create a new relationship with his mom.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ohmo

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

I don't believe she was fully expecting an empty bed. Actors are on set before the red light goes on, they know what's on set. The lighting and angles were set up to reflect Jack's body in the glass while staying on her face, and she had to stand so as not to block it. So that's misleading. Maybe she expected an empty bed before they set up the scene, but before she went to act it, she knew.

Not necessarily. If Fogelman wanted to get a more genuine reaction from Mandy, they could have told her that he was ether not going to be there because Jack was moved to the morgue so that she'd be reacting to no Jack , or that they'd cover Milo in a separate shot and that she'd have to fake react to Jack's dead body. She would have had a mark on the ground for her to stop at as well. I've seen shows have their actors not told certain information before shooting in order to get a more genuine reaction. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It would be doubly sad if this is the case, because with his broken leg, had Kevin been in the basement, he would have been more of a liability than an asset, and probably would have perished - and maybe Jack and/or Rebecca along with him in trying to save him.

I think the main problem with Kevin would have been alerting him to the fact that there was a fire.  Smoke rises, so there is no reason to think that the fire would have alerted him before anyone else.  What I'm trying to remember is the house layout.  If there is a door that goes straight into the kitchen, he might have had the easiest time getting out, broken leg or not.  It depends on exactly what the fire was blocking, of course.  but, yeah, he definitely would not have been rescuing anyone, and if Jack had to make his way back to the kitchen, as opposed to just going through the living room, he probably wouldn't have made it out at all.  He was lucky he wasn't home.

[TV Diva Queen]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hadn't planned to watch, but, ended up seeing part of it.  Can someone tell me why Kate insisted that she had to be the one to tell Kevin that his father was dead?

because its all about her?  All Katie, all the time.

[GalvDuck]

13 hours ago, kili said:

Jack should probably have been on a heart monitor and Rebecca probably should have been told to stay with Jack until they got him hooked up on one.

He was.  The telemetry cables were coming out from the collar of his shirt.  

[TV Diva Queen]

5 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

From what we've seen, there's only one phone in the house, in the kitchen.  Chances are, in 1998, they didn't have cellphones.  They were just beginning to be somewhat affordable, so chances are they didn't have a cellphone.  I'm assuming a neighbor called 911, as they wouldn't have been able to given where they were in the house.

cell phones were readily available in 1998. Like readily available.  I had a car phone in 1986, then switched to mobile in maybe 1990.  Same phone number as I have today too.  And I'm not rich. (See my post way back about oxygen being used to smoke inhalation treatment back  then too.)  

[CelticBlackCat]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

I think Fogleman's idea to have Jack die in a heart attack after a huge fire, was the idea in the beginning. I really don't think, not being ER type show, he looked into what would have happened, just what he wanted to happen. Most nurses, etc., even myself, who worked in a hospital, know, how he was treated, was odd after such a fire and why weren't the kids checked and Kate? They still inhaled smoke. What year it happened didn't change procedure much. There are pages on those procedures from 60's on, 4-6 hours of observation, tests, blood levels to check for various things. I think if he had the doc order the tests and he died while she was away, being monitored, effect would be the same, but leaving him without anything to help him breath or test his oxygen levels, seems odd. He looked awful, very sick, his face tore the hearts of many watching as he told Rebecca to get him something. Trained eyes should have been doing more even if outcome was the same.  With google access so easy, it just seems lazy when he doesn't research things.

Fogelman & Co. should have hired a medical adviser to educate and advise on the medical scenes and talk with real EMTs about how the whole family would have been handled, i.e., all taken to hospital to be checked out, etc.

Edited February 6, 2018 by CelticBlackCat

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

cell phones were readily available in 1998. Like readily available.  I had a car phone in 1986, then switched to mobile in maybe 1990.  Same phone number as I have today too.  And I'm not rich. (See my post way back about oxygen being used to smoke inhalation treatment back  then too.)  

But, we pretty much know that they didn't have cell phones, because when Kevin broke his leg, Rebecca told Kate to go find a phone and page her father.  I didn't have a cell phone in 1998.  Of course, I still don't have a Smartphone, so I guess you can't go by me.  But, I really don't think it would be that weird for a family that may be struggling financially not to have cell phones in '98.  Even if they did have them, it doesn't mean they would know exactly where they were during a fire.  Half the time I have to call my phone from another one to find it:)

[ShadowFacts]

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It would be doubly sad if this is the case, because with his broken leg, had Kevin been in the basement, he would have been more of a liability than an asset, and probably would have perished - and maybe Jack and/or Rebecca along with him in trying to save him.

It would seem that way, but if he had been in his basement bedroom, he might have escaped.  Egress windows are required, I don't think Jack the builder would have been negligent with that safety requirement.  Kevin has an injury, but he is an athlete and those egress windows can't be too high up, so I think he would have had a shot at escaping in time.  Or being rescued by firefighters. 

[TV Diva Queen]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

Sure, but these outliers did exist and I don't remember ever seeing a phone in their room.  My parents have never had a phone in their room. Yeah, they're a few years older, but not that much, my dad is probably 5 or 6 years older than Jack. 

I'm 54, my parents bought our house in 1968,  Phone in the basement, in the kitchen, in their room and he had the wires in my room removed.  The house was already 40 years old at this point.  We live in Chicago.  Everyone of my friends had a least 2-3 phones.  

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I'm 54, my parents bought our house in 1968,  Phone in the basement, in the kitchen, in their room and he had the wires in my room removed.  The house was already 40 years old at this point.  We live in Chicago.  Everyone of my friends had a least 2-3 phones.  

I'm not denying that a lot of people had more than one phone.  I'm just saying that not everybody did.

[TV Diva Queen]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm not denying that a lot of people had more than one phone.  I'm just saying that not everybody did.

and I'm just saying that I didn't know anyone who didn't have multiple phone.  Maybe its where we lived....big city and all.  I don't know, 

20 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, we pretty much know that they didn't have cell phones, because when Kevin broke his leg, Rebecca told Kate to go find a phone and page her father.  I didn't have a cell phone in 1998.  Of course, I still don't have a Smartphone, so I guess you can't go by me.  But, I really don't think it would be that weird for a family that may be struggling financially not to have cell phones in '98.  Even if they did have them, it doesn't mean they would know exactly where they were during a fire.  Half the time I have to call my phone from another one to find it:)

the kids would not HAVE had cell phones back then.....I'll give you that much.  My parents didn't either, the people with cells back then were the working 20 somethings.  touche

:)

Edited February 6, 2018 by TV Diva Queen

[AnnieHeights]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:25 AM, DebbieM4 said:

I loved the Memphis episode.  That was my favorite by far, and the only episode that has made me emotional.  I thought everything about it was beautifully done.  I didn't think this episode would even come close.  And I was right.  It had nowhere near the impact.  At least not for me.

I would be lying if I said I have never been emotional during the run of the show so far but I agree, nothing compares to Memphis for me.          

[gonzosgirrl]

Growing up, our house had a downstairs and and upstairs phone; nobody had one in the bedroom. But in 1998, cordless phones were a thing and certainly extra extensions were. BUT, I still think whether or not they had access to a phone is irrelevant to the outcome, and that it is not implausible that calling 911 wasn't their first priority. And since fire trucks did come, it's even possible that Rebecca or Randall called while Jack was off grabbing Kate, just didn't happen on-screen.

[CelticBlackCat]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I suppose it depends what you mean by losing complete control.  Breaking down crying, crying really hard when your spouse/your children's father has just died, I categorize as completely normal and not something to be hidden.  I also thought it was just bossy of her to tell Miguel what to do when he has already been with the kids at his own house, and that was his best friend.  But I'll cut her a bit of slack for being gobsmacked by all the events of the night. 

As far as the hospital letting her leave, they can't prevent her unless she is clearly impaired.  Suggest, offer to call a cab or someone else, but they can't keep her there.  I personally don't think she was in good enough shape to drive attentively, though. 

Unless you're a patient at the hospital, people can leave as they please.

[ChicksDigScars]

On 2/5/2018 at 12:57 AM, slasherboy said:

I respectfully disagree.  My husband died unexpectedly and tragically 20 years ago and I grieve for him on the anniversary (the actual date!) of his death every year.  My current husband understands and graciously gives me that day.

 

I get it.  My brother-in-law died on Derby Day (the Kentucky Derby, if anyone is wondering ... we're from Kentucky) and we always consider that the anniversary of his death.  Also, my uncle was born on Easter Sunday and even though Easter varies widely on where it falls, my grandmother (his mother) always considered Easter Sunday his birthday.

I guess it could be called the acknowledgement of their deaths (including Jack) rather than the anniversary.

Yup. My mother died on Mother's Day, and my grandmother on Good Friday/Easter Weekend. I know the actual dates of their deaths, but they pass by without me noticing, most years.  Now, when the holiday itself comes around, I think of them both, even though they rarely fall on the actual anniversary of their deaths. Especially having your mother die on Mother's Day. Jack was supposed to be a huge football fan, who died on his favorite day, Super Bowl Sunday. Totally realistic that they feel this way.

 

Another reason to hate that fucking Super Bowl. The Packers lost and Jack died.  And Jack's reaction to the result of the game? Yeah, Jack, me too. "Elway....pffft."

[PRgal]

24 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

and I'm just saying that I didn't know anyone who didn't have multiple phone.  Maybe its where we lived....big city and all.  I don't know, 

the kids would not HAVE had cell phones back then.....I'll give you that much.  My parents didn't either, the people with cells back then were the working 20 somethings.  touche

:)

The kids wouldn't have had a phone, but some adults did.  My mother got her first phone in 1992.  Yeah, one of those huge things, one generation after Zack Morris.  And she wasn't even working in finance at the time.  I got my first phone in '98, just before I left for university - my parents were worried about my safety as I was going away to school and the school was a known party school.  It was a Nokia and I mostly played Snake on it.  LOL.  

[nexxie]

People may have posted about this already (I’m making my way through the thread), but the thing that sticks in my mind about this episode is Jack’s shoulders and head sort of falling as Rebecca leaves the room to get snacks (as if he knew).

Brilliant detail!

Edited February 6, 2018 by nexxie

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, nexxie said:

People may have posted about this already (I’m making my way through the thread), but the thing that sticks in my mind about this episode is Jack’s shoulders and head sort of falling as Rebecca leaves the room to get snacks (as if he knew).

Brilliant detail!

I noticed that too.  The hair and makeup team made sure that Milo looked at death's door in that scene.  All I could think was that Jack was holding on long enough for Rebecca to leave the room.  I know that this is not how heart attacks work, but I also think Jack knew.

[kili]

Quote

What I'm trying to remember is the house layout.  If there is a door that goes straight into the kitchen, he might have had the easiest time getting out, broken leg or not.  It depends on exactly what the fire was blocking, of course

Jack left a note on Kevin's door (telling him to apologize) and that was one of the things they showed burning during the episode prior to the Superbowl episode. That would seem to imply that fire had progressed to being in front of Kevin's door. Kevin likely would have had to face fire to escape out that door.

Quote

Egress windows are required, I don't think Jack the builder would have been negligent with that safety requirement. 

Kevin's basement bedroom wasn't originally a bedroom. It was just an area off of the laundry room and looked largely unfinished when he moved in. It may have required an egress window, but Jack lived with a sparking electrical box and a battery-less smoke alarm. It's possible he didn't take a jackhammer to the basement window to make sure it was up to code. I remember the window being high and small. It might have been a challenge to get a cast through it. 

Given that Jack walked out of the front door, he probably would have been better jumping down from the roof and kicking in the front door (and calling for the dog). That staircase was fully involved. I don't know how he got down it without being crispy fried even with a blanket over his head.  Of course, he wouldn't have known the condition of the front door from the roof.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, kili said:

Given that Jack walked out of the front door, he probably would have been better jumping down from the roof and kicking in the front door (and calling for the dog). That staircase was fully involved. I don't know how he got down it without being crispy fried even with a blanket over his head.  Of course, he wouldn't have known the condition of the front door from the roof.

Which makes it all the worse, as if he didn't hink he could get out the front door, he was counting on being able to get down and then back up the stairs. 

[GSMHvisitor]

Some things surrounding the fire & Jack's death definitely felt contrived. I think the thing that bothered me most was the fact that they dropped the kids off at Miguel's before getting Jack to the hospital for the check-up. Seriously, who does that?? Especially when the ambulance is right there? Hell, he was already in the ambulance. I'm sure Rebecca could have made a call from a neighbour house to ask Miguel to get the kids, while she goes to the hospital with Jack via ambulance.

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

While I get your point and agree with it, Jack wasn't doing anything Easter of 1998.

Just you wait. 

[Clanstarling]

4 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Just you wait. 

Rising from the dead?

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It would be doubly sad if this is the case, because with his broken leg, had Kevin been in the basement, he would have been more of a liability than an asset, and probably would have perished - and maybe Jack and/or Rebecca along with him in trying to save him.

I had forgotten about the leg.  That's certainly the objective reality, but I was thinking of Kevin looking at it from his own perspective and its effect on him.  Just as with Kate, if he starts to opine on this as an excuse for his life, someone needs to sit him down and explain that objective reality.

[teapot100]

On 2/5/2018 at 12:58 AM, CelticBlackCat said:

Food for thought, yeah.  The Pearsons were so wrapped up in football and still are that it's the SB that reminds them of Jack's death.  Maybe it's like that with other big events like remembering when a loved one died on Thanksgiving (date varies).

My dad died on SBS too - 17 years ago and I can't tell you what the date was, but I do remember that N'Sync and Britney Spears were on the TV doing the halftime show when I got the call. I think about that every SBS since.

Just watched the episode again. If you look at Jack in the hospital scene, he is sweating - already looking worse for him.

I'm ok with Wallowing Kate, Kevin and Randall - we're all works in progress. There are things that I didn't see in myself 10 years ago that I am all too painfully aware of now.  That's part of what makes this show so good - it is so good at making the characters human. Except Beth - she is superwoman and I love her, but she ain't real...Miguel is pretty 1D. Toby - has the patience of a saint and yes, there are real people out there like him. My husband is one. He sees the good in me that I don't see in myself. I think Toby does that for Kate. 

Sorry, didn't mean to get all personal here!

I'm a bit miffed at the hospital scene with dead Jack on the bed - seriously? A hospital would leave the door to his room or curtains around his bed open like that with no one milling about or covering him up? I cry foul.

Mandy Moore was exquisite at times like the moment when the doctor told her about Jack and when she broke the news to Miguel and parts of the scene when she re alized Jack was really dead, but at times I did feel that it was teetering on an actress-who-knew-she-had-to-deliver-because-it-was-supposed-to-be-a-big-moment kind of feel. I felt that way about Young Kate and Young Randall's performances too. Justin H. is not on the same level as the other actors in the show, but I still think he did ok in here. I did see a little moisture in his eyes, though no tears we're falling to wipe away.

I cried way more during the rehab episode than I did during this one if that counts for anything. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by teapot100

[Kohola3]

24 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Rising from the dead?

Well, that is the premise of Easter....