S03.E08: Lemons and Lemonade

[WendyCR72]

Dr. Choi struggles to help a woman cope with anorexia. After a two-week suspension, Dr. Reese is immediately put to the test upon her return by Dr. Charles. Dr. Rhodes takes a stand when one of his patients is forcibly transferred. Meanwhile, Dr. Halstead is on a mission to get Dr. Manning's son to like him.

[SuzieQ]

Decent episode but the fact that Natalie said NOTHING to Owen when he nails Will in the face TWICE really annoyed me.  I know he's young but why wouldn't she tell him that's not appropriate?

[Pippin]

Two thoughts (rants, really):

First, Dr. Manning's kid? What ever happened to the word "NO"?  A child old enough to begin verbalization and is able to interact should understand that throwing things at someone is NOT acceptable, especially if the object's thrown hard enough to cause injury.  This is NOT a "oh how cute moment".  Call me a curmudgeon, but I am so sick and tired of bratty behaviour being presented as precocious and adorable.  Hell, my cat understands the word "no", a toddler should, too.  Dr. Manning, discipline is not a bad word.  Sheesh!

And second, holy lifting, am I ever glad I live under an evil socialist universal healthcare programme.  Our system here in Canada is not perfect, but no one gets turfed for having no money.  I'm on a fixed income, and I was quite ill last year and spent time in the hospital, (3 days and 5 days respectively) and I had tests such as MRIs, X-rays, colonoscopy, blood tests, cardio tests, etc., plus 2 weeks of at-home visits (I had a PIC for antibiotics for that time), and all of that, plus ambulance ride, antibiotics and pump for the PIC, cost me exactly $5.00 (CDN) out-of-pocket.  We have long waiting lists for non-essential surgery and problems due to geography (far north communities) but like an interviewee on CBC said a while back, "I'd rather wait than not be able to get any care at all."

It's unbelievable that the almighty dollar means more than the right to health care.  I'm sorry if the rant is off-topic, but I see this kind of problem presented on US TV all the time, and where I live, it's a non-starter.  (I saw a skit where Walt from "Breaking Bad" lives in Canada:  It was along the line of "Well, Walt, you've got cancer.  Treatment starts next week.  See you then."  And that's it.  No Breaking Bad needed!)  :) 

Although on the plus side, dramatizing this on TV raises awareness.  I guess.

Again, if this is off-topic, apologies.

[SuzieQ]

6 minutes ago, Pippin said:

Two thoughts (rants, really):

First, Dr. Manning's kid? What ever happened to the word "NO"?  A child old enough to begin verbalization and is able to interact should understand that throwing things at someone is NOT acceptable, especially if the object's thrown hard enough to cause injury.  This is NOT a "oh how cute moment".  Call me a curmudgeon, but I am so sick and tired of bratty behaviour being presented as precocious and adorable.  Hell, my cat understands the word "no", a toddler should, too.  Dr. Manning, discipline is not a bad word.  Sheesh!

 

Ditto everything! I mean she didn't even acknowledge it.  What kind of a message does that send?  As a mother I'm horrified!

 

As far as the healthcare issue, that is such a big deal currently, I'm sure that was an agenda item for people to realize what happens to people who can't afford insurance. .  I can't even get started on it without taking up a whole page

Edited January 24, 2018 by SuzieQ

[Netfoot]

7 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I know he's young but why wouldn't she tell him that's not appropriate?

Tell him that's not appropriate?  Yah, my mum used to send me that message in brail!

[SuzieQ]

1 minute ago, Netfoot said:

Tell him that's not appropriate?  Yah, my mum used to send me that message in brail!

HA!! Mine too.  But to not even say anything???

[statsgirl]

No  Ava!  and as a result, Connor gets to become the nice guy we know he is.  I liked Sharon telling him that there will always be people who can't afford health care coming to the hospital.  He'll have to learn limits.

17 minutes ago, Pippin said:

Although on the plus side, dramatizing this on TV raises awareness.  I guess.

ER was trying to dramatize this twenty years ago and many shows have been trying since. But if anyone is wondering why more people from Norway don't emigrate to the US, their single payer health sytem is one of the reasons.

Poor Owen. It seems like Natalie doesn't have parenting skills, and Will is trying to buy his affections.  Here's a thought will, take away the hard toys, get soft ones, and get down on the rug and play at his level.

Last week April talked about the mother and baby in terms of her own miscarriage; this week it's comparing the woman who is a carrier to her own TB.  Is there any situation April doesn't make all about herself?

I really liked Dr. Charles meeting the anorexic woman on her own terms. That's good psychiatry.

Which brings me to Reese. In the scientific method, you shouldn't confirm  your diagnosis, you should eliminate alternative diagnoses.*  Maybe Reese is the victim of her own intelligence and she's always been right all her life so she can't imagine that she's wrong now. Or maybe she's so insecure that she can't move from her original ideas.

Reese was wrong but the real problem is that twice Charles told her to do a full exam before starting the drugs and she didn't. Instead she gave that woman a massive dose of anti-psychotic drugs with all their side effects. That;s inexcusable. She's there to follow instructions and learn.

* My daughter was referred to a psychiatrist for a suspected diagnosis of OCD.  The psychiatrist confirmed OCD rather than exploring other options and proceeded to drug her into a zombie-like state, telling me that the CBT treatment doesn't work on OCD. It took me six months to get  him to agree to refer to a psychologist for an evaluation. The psychologist diagnosed a Generalized Anxiety Disorder (which is what I had been trying to say) and recommended CBT and off the drugs.  The psychiatrist could have caught that if he weren't so committed to confirming his diagnosis rather than eliminating the wrong ones.

[Artsda]

Dr.Rhodes is throwing a lot of money around this week. 

Why didn't anyone tell the kid don't throw things at people?

[Brookside]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Dr.Rhodes is throwing a lot of money around this week. 

 

I was assuming he sold the Porsche.  But then I remembered you should never assume anything about these kind of shows.

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, Brookside said:

I was assuming he sold the Porsche.

Me too.  And given the level of happiness he displayed driving it in the early scenes....

[Laurie4H]

9 hours ago, Pippin said:

It's unbelievable that the almighty dollar means more than the right to health care.  I'm sorry if the rant is off-topic, but I see this kind of problem presented on US TV all the time, and where I live, it's a non-starter.  (I saw a skit where Walt from "Breaking Bad" lives in Canada:  It was along the line of "Well, Walt, you've got cancer.  Treatment starts next week.  See you then."  And that's it.  No Breaking Bad needed!)  :) 

Interesting.  I’ve known several people who have moved here from Canada who were ecstatic to find how much more money they had in there paycheck.  In Canada half of that went to pay for healthcare.  One of them told me she sat in the ER while living in Canada for 8 hours with flu symptoms and was never able to see a dr.  Another one who had to wait 6 months for a surgery.  So I guess it’s all personal experience.

I thought it was a good episode but does anyone ever get a diagnosis that is correct the first time?

Edited January 24, 2018 by Laurie4H

[Sarnia]

21 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Me too.  And given the level of happiness he displayed driving it in the early scenes....

OMG. I hadn't seen such an intense/serious/frozen/constipated look since I last watched Horatio Caine putting on his sunglasses on CSI Miami. I actually laughed.

[Netfoot]

4 minutes ago, Sarnia said:

since I last watched Horatio Caine putting on his sunglasses on CSI Miami.

Now, that made me laugh!

[GalvDuck]

13 hours ago, statsgirl said:

* My daughter was referred to a psychiatrist for a suspected diagnosis of OCD.  The psychiatrist confirmed OCD rather than exploring other options and proceeded to drug her into a zombie-like state, telling me that the CBT treatment doesn't work on OCD. It took me six months to get  him to agree to refer to a psychologist for an evaluation. The psychologist diagnosed a Generalized Anxiety Disorder (which is what I had been trying to say) and recommended CBT and off the drugs.  The psychiatrist could have caught that if he weren't so committed to confirming his diagnosis rather than eliminating the wrong ones.

*Quick off-topic reply (But Drs. Charles and Reese probably say it's on-topic):  I'm all for exploring other non-pharmaceutical options for both physical and emotional diagnoses.  I was diagnosed with PTSD several years ago.  I was lucky enough to work with a therapist who specialized in trauma recovery and I believe I can say that I no longer have PTSD.  It is actually not a long term syndrome for many.  A number of people have been know to experience it for a short time after a traumatic event, but then recover on their own through proper self-care.  I saw my therapist twice a week for a number of months and then progressed to once a week, twice a month, once a month, and now I'm down to once every few months.  There was a specialized, non-medical treatment for PTSD that she used to help me work through the traumatic events.  It put an end to the flashbacks and nightmares.  No medication whatsoever.

I hope everything is working out for your daughter.

[Xantar]

I liked this episode. It's standard issue in a lot of ways, but that's good. It's not all about the melodrama or the soap opera. It's just about exploring medical issues and presenting cases. That's all I want from my medical drama.

The anorexia case was so sad. I also wondered how they managed to film that. Presumably they didn't get an actual malnourished actress to play the role, so how did they make her look so emaciated? Is makeup so good that it can actually subtract body mass?

[Ailianna]

I wondered the same thing.  At first I thought it had to be a mannequin, and then I realized it was actually a person.  How did they do that?

[Pippin]

11 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Interesting.  I’ve known several people who have moved here from Canada who were ecstatic to find how much more money they had in there paycheck.  In Canada half of that went to pay for healthcare.  One of them told me she sat in the ER while living in Canada for 8 hours with flu symptoms and was never able to see a dr.  Another one who had to wait 6 months for a surgery.  So I guess it’s all personal experience.

I thought it was a good episode but does anyone ever get a diagnosis that is correct the first time?

In Ontario, where I live, there is no direct deduction from your paycheque.  We do pay a lot of taxes taxes here in Canada but that's because we pay for social services, including healthcare.  I've never had to wait excessively long in an ER but then again, I go to a clinic when I have a bad flu.  Or my family doctor.  But again, I wonder what will happen to your friend if they develop a catastrophic illness or injury?  I don't want to start a war over this; I'll just say I. like people in Norway, prefer universal health care.  And I find most Canadians who move to the states are more American in their attitudes ("life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) than Canadian ("peace, prosperity and good government").  Each to their own, yes?

[Texasmom1970]

DReally show, Wilson’s disease. This is the second week in a row they have stolen from “House.” But I guess I should not set the bar too high.

[statsgirl]

Thanks, @GalvDuck.  My daughter is doing better after the right diagnosis and treatment for what she really had,  I'm glad you're doing better too.

I don't understand why thedotors let the anorexic woman die.  Couldn't they overrule her decision not to eat since she had a mental illness was clearly impaired? Why didn't she get the mood drugs Reese was pushing on the Wilson's disease woman?

I don't understand how Natalie tolerates her son's behavior.  If he throws blocks like that with impunity, he misbehaves in other ways.  Has she just decided that everything he does is cute?

16 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Interesting.  I’ve known several people who have moved here from Canada who were ecstatic to find how much more money they had in there paycheck.  In Canada half of that went to pay for healthcare.  One of them told me she sat in the ER while living in Canada for 8 hours with flu symptoms and was never able to see a dr.  Another one who had to wait 6 months for a surgery.  So I guess it’s all personal experience.

As @Pippin said, it's a trade-off.  Longer wait times but everyone gets treated and without have to worry about the co-pay. (The lack of a universal drug plan is a problem though.) 

Eight hours is unusual for sitting in an ER in Canada; if your friend didn't see a doctor then he/she saw a physician's assistant or nurse practitioner. Everyone gets treated. Waits for elective surgery can be long, on the other hand flu shots and prenatal care are free.  The U.S. spends $9,892 per capita on health care, more than any other country (in comparison the UK spends $4,192 and Canada's $4,753) but ranks 12th in life expectancy among the 12 wealthiest industrialized countries,  The part of the cost of health care that the U.S. government kicks in is greater than the amount spent by most OECD country with universal health care.

Edited January 25, 2018 by statsgirl

[LittleIggy]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:14 PM, SuzieQ said:

Decent episode but the fact that Natalie said NOTHING to Owen when he nails Will in the face TWICE really annoyed me.  I know he's young but why wouldn't she tell him that's not appropriate?

Thank you! She laughed instead of correcting the kid. Great patenting that.

[Guildford]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Thank you! She laughed instead of correcting the kid. Great patenting that.

So she's as good a mother as she is a Doctor?

[izabella]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:01 PM, statsgirl said:

Which brings me to Reese. In the scientific method, you shouldn't confirm  your diagnosis, you should eliminate alternative diagnoses.*  Maybe Reese is the victim of her own intelligence and she's always been right all her life so she can't imagine that she's wrong now. Or maybe she's so insecure that she can't move from her original ideas.

Reese was wrong but the real problem is that twice Charles told her to do a full exam before starting the drugs and she didn't. Instead she gave that woman a massive dose of anti-psychotic drugs with all their side effects. That;s inexcusable. She's there to follow instructions and learn.

I believe Reese is too afraid to get near the patients to actually give them exams rather than thinking she's always right about her diagnoses without any exam .  Dr. Charles even called her out on it with the patient, saying Reese hadn't gotten near enough to give her an exam and see the yellow around her her eyes.  She's a danger to patients at this point, stuffing them with drugs they may not need and could harm them.

[watcher1006]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:14 PM, SuzieQ said:

Decent episode but the fact that Natalie said NOTHING to Owen when he nails Will in the face TWICE really annoyed me.  I know he's young but why wouldn't she tell him that's not appropriate?

Could they be setting up a behavioral problem storyline for Natalie's son? It seemed very odd that it happened twice, and that it didn't seem to faze Natalie at all.

[Emma9]

The plotline I found most interesting was the one with (relatively) the least drama; the modern-day Typhoid Mary. I was guessing something similar to MRSA (forget what the actual infection ended up being) as soon as she mentioned a previous hospital stay, but you don't as often hear about single persistent carriers for something like that. When she didn't accept the pamphlets, I got the feeling she was contemplating suicide - even if she splits with the boyfriend and avoids intimate contact in the future, wouldn't she still want information on how to avoid infecting people by more casual means? Just because she isn't aware of doing so before doesn't mean she hasn't.

(And I could buy her being so upset she didn't think of it that way, but the nurses still should've pointed it out.)

Edited January 25, 2018 by Emma9

[dogdays2]

Must admit that the anorexia story was spot on.  Almost the exact same thing happened to a colleague's daughter a couple of years ago.  She had been battling anorexia for about 15 years (almost exactly) -- was ~27 when she died.  She'd been in and out of hospitals and treatment centers for years.  She weighed about 70 lbs at the time of her death and was about the same build as the actress.  However, she didn't affirmatively refuse treatment.  Rather, her body was so decimated by the disease that, when she ended up in the ICU for the umpteenth time, her heart stopped and they couldn't restart it.  The point being that one can die from the long-term effects of anorexia even without a conscious decision to do so.  Dr. Charles' seemed to be spot-on regarding this one . . . it's a nasty, devastating disease that seems all the more tragic because it is (in theory) fully preventable/treatable but in reality, often neither.  It's also devastating for the parent(s), who most of the time have tried almost everything and often spent their life savings trying to help their child. 

[Sandman]

On 1/24/2018 at 12:01 AM, statsgirl said:

Which brings me to Reese. In the scientific method, you shouldn't confirm  your diagnosis, you should eliminate alternative diagnoses.*  Maybe Reese is the victim of her own intelligence and she's always been right all her life so she can't imagine that she's wrong now. Or maybe she's so insecure that she can't move from her original ideas.

I think it was more that eliminating alternatives would have required interacting more with the patient. I feel certain that Reese must understand the basic principles of the scientific method underlying differential diagnosis, but her fear is mastering her -- she was at least able to recognize after the fact that her treatment was hampered because she was unable to look her patient in the eye.

I don't know what to say about Natalie's parenting style -- well, "parenting" style! Not even to acknowledge that Owen's throwing things hurt someone? Yeah, that's going nowhere good. It's not like Owen is too young to understand that some things just aren't allowed. Getting him to like you more is not the issue, Will.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Sandman

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

I don't know what to say about Natalie's parenting style -- well, "parenting" style! Not even to acknowledge that Owen's throwing things hurt someone? Yeah, that's going nowhere good. It's not like Owen is too young to understand that some things just aren't allowed. Getting him to like you more is not the issue, Will.

That's also the kind of thing that will eventually get him kicked out of whatever daycare he is in while Natalie is working her very long hours.  Natalie may think it's nothing, and Halstead may get over it, but woe to Natalie if Owen gives one of the other kids in daycare a black eye because he threw wooden blocks, repeatedly.  Other parents won't be so forgiving.

[athelyna]

I was unclear on the cancer patient if she was going to receive no treatment at all for her cancer at the other hospital, or if it was that she just wouldn't receive the cuttting edge aka expensive treatment that Med offers.

The anorexia story was sad, and I feel bad for everyone stuck standing around watching her die, but I guess it's sort of like the times patients have DNRs even if there is possibly more they could do to help a patient.  My understanding is that anorexia is actually really hard to treat.

Hated Natalie not telling Owen no or taking away his blocks after he threw them at a person.  One time, okay maybe the block slipped from the kids hand or wasn't intentional, but throwing things right at Will is not acceptable.  My niece is 1 year old and she knows if Mama says "No" to stop what she's doing.  Natalie's kid is going to be a terror when he gets older if she doesn't try to correct his behavior now.

I'm not sure how I feel about Reese's storyline.   I think this week it was a combo of factors - she's scared of her patients and she has a tendency to assume she's right about things.  Even if she couldn't get close enough to see the rings around the patient's eyes you would think the fact she gave a bunch of meds and they had absolutely no affect would cue her in maybe something wasn't right.  I bet even last week's doc's flow charts have a step for reanalyze if meds don't work.

[mochamajesty]

Does anyone have the answer as to how they filmed the scenes with the anorexic lady?

Is it my imagination or did the commercials for this episode make it aeem like an outbreak was going to occur? 

[Sandman]

Heh. I had just had an awful thought: Maybe Grammie Helen is prompting Owen, Miss Clairee-style, about that terrible, horrible, no-good, grouchy Doctor Red.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Sandman
Because Ouiser was the object of the mockery, of course!

[NJRadioGuy]

46 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Does anyone have the answer as to how they filmed the scenes with the anorexic lady?

The actor's name is Morgan Weed and there's not much about her in the usual online places. I'm hoping there was a ton of VFX involved since the actor herself doesn't appear to be that bad, and her face does not appear to be emaciated, which I think would also be the case in real life. It was disturbing as hell, though, I'll give the VFX team that much.

[GalvDuck]

23 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

The actor's name is Morgan Weed and there's not much about her in the usual online places. I'm hoping there was a ton of VFX involved since the actor herself doesn't appear to be that bad, and her face does not appear to be emaciated, which I think would also be the case in real life. It was disturbing as hell, though, I'll give the VFX team that much.

It had to be VFX.  Even her teeth were jacked up to look like those of an anorexic.

I know there were times on ER where the actor's head was the only actual part of their body that we could see.  They were usually reclining in a special chair below the gurney with their head sticking up through the mattress.   Then the body was all fake with special prosthetics, blood, and gore added.  Of course, for her, it was just her emaciated body, but it definitely did not look real life for a healthy individual who is acting.  

[starri]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:27 AM, statsgirl said:

Couldn't they overrule her decision not to eat since she had a mental illness was clearly impaired?

If she has the capacity to understand the consequences of not accepting treatment, she has the right to refuse.  Even psychotic patients can refuse their medication.  You can sedate patients as needed if they're dangerous to themselves and to others, but you can't pour medication down their throats.  As a last resort, you can get a court order to force compliance (Treatment Over Objection), but those are actually pretty rare.

[statsgirl]

On 1/25/2018 at 1:15 PM, athelyna said:

I was unclear on the cancer patient if she was going to receive no treatment at all for her cancer at the other hospital, or if it was that she just wouldn't receive the cuttting edge aka expensive treatment that Med offers.

[snip]

I'm not sure how I feel about Reese's storyline.   I think this week it was a combo of factors - she's scared of her patients and she has a tendency to assume she's right about things.  Even if she couldn't get close enough to see the rings around the patient's eyes you would think the fact she gave a bunch of meds and they had absolutely no affect would cue her in maybe something wasn't right.  I bet even last week's doc's flow charts have a step for reanalyze if meds don't work.

She would be given basic treatment at the other hospital but not for everything that they had found.

The doubling down on drugs when they weren't working sadly was realistic.  My daughter's psychiatrist kept upping her dose when it didn't work out the way he wanted it to, so that my 20 year old daughter who weighed 115 pounds was getting twice the recommended dose for an adult male.  She was so stoned she finally said Enough, no more drugs.

[Pippin]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:27 AM, statsgirl said:

Waits for elective surgery can be long, on the other hand flu shots and prenatal care are free.

Not to prolong this excessively, but urgent surgery/care gets bumped to the head of the line.  Former Prime Minister Jean Chretien had chest pains while playing golf; by the same afternoon he was undergoing heart surgery.  I mention this only because it was reported on in the news; the fact that he was the former PM doesn't mean that that was the only reason he got speedy treatment.  My own experience was much the same. 

As I've said, we're not perfect and compared to some of the Scandinavian countries, we could do much better (Pharmacare and dental -- both of which are discussed; and BTW, Ontario just introduced free pharmacare for everyone under 25) but frankly, I'm glad I live on this side of the Detroit River.  Another note:  Ontario was forced to change OHIP (medicare cards) to prevent fraud; Americans were coming over the border in truckloads to get the care they couldn't get in the states;. most particularly in the field of obstetrics for prenatal care.

I do wonder what the future held for the patient with bone cancer.  It would be tough to do stand up if she had to have that leg amputated.  Although if Terry Fox could run across Canada on one leg, I guess she could manage somehow!  I know the patients tend to be one episode appearances, but there are some I wouldn't mind seeing re follow-ups.

15 hours ago, statsgirl said:

She would be given basic treatment at the other hospital but not for everything that they had found.

The doubling down on drugs when they weren't working sadly was realistic.  My daughter's psychiatrist kept upping her dose when it didn't work out the way he wanted it to, so that my 20 year old daughter who weighed 115 pounds was getting twice the recommended dose for an adult male.  She was so stoned she finally said Enough, no more drugs.

Forgot to add this -- my psychiatrist used to mention horror stories like this (temporal lobe epilepsy being misdiagnosed, carelessness in drug monitoring, etc.).  So I do my homework when it comes to prescriptions and such.  I am sometimes a pain in the butt as a patient but better informed than not.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Pippin

[shksabelle]

Oh. Ha ha ha. My sweet, precious bundle threw a block at your eye - TWICE. 

Do I, as his MOTHER, even mildly reprimand the precious bundle?  Of course not. I will just smile and giggle, which will reinforce that his action was OK, and then get some ice for your eye. 

Jesus H. Christ!!!

[Netfoot]

^^^ Isn't that the modern way?

[starri]

I did get a smile out of their plans to dump her "at County."

Sure, make her Carter's problem.

[Court]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:14 PM, SuzieQ said:

Decent episode but the fact that Natalie said NOTHING to Owen when he nails Will in the face TWICE really annoyed me.  I know he's young but why wouldn't she tell him that's not appropriate?

OMG yes. This drove me crazy both times. You tell the kid we don't throw. It's not nice and it hurts people. It's parenting 101. If the kid continues, take the blocks away. She's a bad doctor and a bad parent. 

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, Pippin said:

Forgot to add this -- my psychiatrist used to mention horror stories like this (temporal lobe epilepsy being misdiagnosed, carelessness in drug monitoring, etc.).  So I do my homework when it comes to prescriptions and such.  I am sometimes a pain in the butt as a patient but better informed than not.

There are some really great doctors (I'm fortunate to have one). For the rest, homework.  (Did you hear the White Coat, Black Art programs on a man who diagnosed his orphan disease from the internet and the family whose family tree helped find members who had a very rare genetic disease.)

6 hours ago, Netfoot said:

^^^ Isn't that the modern way?

You've reminded me of a scene in the book Celia's House by D.E. Stevenson where the father finally realizes that raising his children in the Modern Method is a failure after seeing relatives whose children were well behaved and not constantly fighting. She published it in the 1940s.

[Netfoot]

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She published it in the 1940s.

It's gotten worse since then.

[Lyanna19]

Natalie is pi--ing me off. Really, not taking care of her son when he the those blocks, well what if he harmed himself, does she still laugh?

Connor, like I said in the previous episode, must be nice to have money.

I also thought he would sell the Porsche, what waiting for it to be mentioned, wonder if his date would drop him if she finds out he took the car back.

Still don't like April and her "caterpillars" ....

Dr. Charles you need to admit that Dr. Reese is either incompetent or not ready before she "kills"a patient.

I'm from Canada, yes our wait times can be long. But at least we don't get turned away just because we can't pay for it. And if it's non emergency, we go to our family Dr. Or walk-in clinics. Don't abuse the hospital for minor things.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but I was off the impression that hospitals can't refuse to help you even if you can't pay for it. They have to help. (I have relatives in Montana and they've told me this, mind you they pay for everything...)

[NYCFree]

12 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

 

Also correct me if I'm wrong but I was off the impression that hospitals can't refuse to help you even if you can't pay for it. They have to help. (I have relatives in Montana and they've told me this, mind you they pay for everything...)

All hospitals have to take emergency, or life threatening cases. The rules are different for prolonged illness. It's a complete fucked up system. I just read about a large insurance company that will refuse emergency room visits, if it turns out you do not actually have an emergency. The featured case was a young woman with many signs of appendicitis, however, after testing, it seems she has an ovarian cyst, and an $11,000 bill because an ovarian cyst isn't life threatening. This is a woman who actually has insurance.

[Court]

It also depends on if it's a private or public hospital.

[Diana Berry]

Just watched the episode so late to the party.

 

I'm So glad not to be the only one that couldn't believe Natalie did not correct her child.  What's he going to do when he gets to preschool and throws things at another child instead of an adult?  I fear a very special Natalie episode and her uncontrollable child.

[SnarkySheep]

On 1/29/2018 at 6:21 PM, Diana Berry said:

What's he going to do when he gets to preschool and throws things at another child instead of an adult?

My theory would be that he doesn't spend all that much time with Natalie, but with grandma...who looks at him and only sees a poor baby that never knew his dad, so he's being spoiled and coddled. While that may be fine and good within the family, nobody in the larger world is going to care about any of that. 

Also, Will giving Owen that car? I know he literally said it's a bribe, but seriously? The kid acts terribly, not once but twice (that we've seen...who knows how often it's really been?) and he's rewarded with a large gift? Good luck getting that behavior to change.

[debraran]

On 1/25/2018 at 2:32 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

The actor's name is Morgan Weed and there's not much about her in the usual online places. I'm hoping there was a ton of VFX involved since the actor herself doesn't appear to be that bad, and her face does not appear to be emaciated, which I think would also be the case in real life. It was disturbing as hell, though, I'll give the VFX team that much.

I'm not sure but some actress's get close to extremely thin for roles, usually movie though. Look at all the Holocaust movies, skeletons, but maybe camera filters/angles and makeup can make it seem worse. This actress, wasn't ass bad but talked about her experience https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2017/07/11/lily-collins-netflix-anorexia-movie-bone/465422001/

It's sad, I worked with a young woman many years ago, she was getting married, wanted to lose 20lbs, I wanted to lose 15, we both did but she kept going and going. I don't know what clicked in her brain but it was never enough and I heard she might have died. So heartbreaking for everyone, the person and her loved ones.

On 1/30/2018 at 7:11 PM, SnarkySheep said:

My theory would be that he doesn't spend all that much time with Natalie, but with grandma...who looks at him and only sees a poor baby that never knew his dad, so he's being spoiled and coddled. While that may be fine and good within the family, nobody in the larger world is going to care about any of that. 

Also, Will giving Owen that car? I know he literally said it's a bribe, but seriously? The kid acts terribly, not once but twice (that we've seen...who knows how often it's really been?) and he's rewarded with a large gift? Good luck getting that behavior to change.

That was very unrealistic, he is horny for the mom so he is bribing a toddler? Most toddlers don't just act up with one person although my daughter would cry with certain relatives because she sensed they really didn't like kids. I hope they aren't setting up visits with Dr Charles further down the line when he's in preschool and acting terrible.

[debraran]

On 1/27/2018 at 12:08 AM, statsgirl said:

She would be given basic treatment at the other hospital but not for everything that they had found.

The doubling down on drugs when they weren't working sadly was realistic.  My daughter's psychiatrist kept upping her dose when it didn't work out the way he wanted it to, so that my 20 year old daughter who weighed 115 pounds was getting twice the recommended dose for an adult male.  She was so stoned she finally said Enough, no more drugs.

Reese is cute and she has a good relationship with Dr Charles but I think her insecurity and other issues are making it hard to believe he still feels it is the right area for her. I've seen docs change from pedi to anesthesiologist because feelings and emotional tole wasn't a good fit, sometimes what you want and what you are cut out for, are two different things. She is still young and forming but they are making her out to be a bit presumptuous and ignoring her mentor's direct orders. Time will tell, but I hope the writers get a little better with her scripts.

My favorite scene with Dr Charles and Reese was the guy who said he was hit by the car and was talking on his phone. Most would let it go but his instincts said better. The scene where he goes back after Reece's prompting to talk to him, made me tear up. That is the kind of real doctor people need. Takes it slow and validates the persons feelings and offers help.  So many kinds of depression and still such a stigma. I hope even if it's TV, episodes like this show others it's not your fault and you can feel better.

[statsgirl]

On 1/30/2018 at 7:11 PM, SnarkySheep said:

My theory would be that he doesn't spend all that much time with Natalie, but with grandma...who looks at him and only sees a poor baby that never knew his dad, so he's being spoiled and coddled. While that may be fine and good within the family, nobody in the larger world is going to care about any of that.

Or he behaves for Grandma but he knows he can get away with anything when Mom's around.  Children of that age can differentiate between adults and what they can get away with.

Natalie should not have let Will get him that car, and especially  not as a bribe.  I can just see Owen taking it out into traffic because it's a car! and Natalie isn't paying attention.

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Or he behaves for Grandma but he knows he can get away with anything when Mom's around.  Children of that age can differentiate between adults and what they can get away with.

Natalie should not have let Will get him that car, and especially  not as a bribe.  I can just see Owen taking it out into traffic because it's a car! and Natalie isn't paying attention.

He'll be with Dr Charles before you know it. ; )