S04.E09: He's Dead

[Bort]

Quote

The group deals with more obstacles as police investigate the accidental shooting of Simon; Laurel and her baby cling to life. 

[tennisgurl]

Oliver, you do NOT get to drop the "you people" line. Connor ran himself ragged to keep you away from this crap, and you just plowed right in because you thought it was exciting. Slow your rolls. The gang might be sketchy, but your in this too now. 

Of course Frank kills Dominic right when he was about to reveal everything. Of course. 

I thought they actually wrapped things up really well from the cliff hanger, more than I expected them to, while also setting up the new story. 

[Dee]

Oliver is a real killjoy.

[HunterHunted]

Fuck. You. Oliver.

[Jeopardy15]

Soooooo Wes/Christophe called Dominic??? Huh??? 

[Lady Calypso]

Not surprised that Dominic is dead. I figured his character would either disappear somehow in the premiere or be killed off. As it became more clear that he had some nefarious plan, I knew he was going to die. And not surprisingly, it was by the hand of Frank, so that'll throw a wrench in the Frank/Laurel romance. 

Otherwise, a decent premiere. I get it now when Nowalk said that this was supposed to be the finale. It wrapped everything pretty nicely. 

Simon's still alive, which is no surprise to me either. He's the one who can throw a wrench in the Keating 4's plans. Well, now I guess the new Keating 5, with Oliver as the honorary member. Speaking of Oliver...man, he's on my shit list. Boy, you're a part of this now. No throwing out "you people", especially at your own damn boyfriend, who tried to warn all of you! 

An excellent episode for Michaela as well. I feel somewhat bad for her, although her crawling back to Annalise because they were in trouble was a little frustrating. Still, girl held it together as long as she could but she fell apart. 

I guess I should have been surprised at the Christoph/Wes calling Dominic at the end, but it didn't really shock me that much. I'm not even sure why, but I kind of shrugged the big end reveal off. So, Wes knew Dominic. I guess we'll be getting some pretty interesting flashbacks. 

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, Connor deserves better. 

[wanderingstar]

What a great episode! I haven't enjoyed the show this much since early season 3.

Direct quote from my sister: "How Frank gon' be that baby's father? That's a black ass baby!" Truth.

Connor saying he's a lawyer made me chuckle. LOL, whut?

I see Isaac is the latest person to regret giving Annalise any personal info about himself. Live and learn, Isaac.

Tegan totally didn't buy Michaela's lies. That can't be good.

I had a feeling Simon was alive. 
Oliver has been doing the dirt with "these people" for a while now. A little late for him to get precious.

Did Dominic intercept Wes' last voicemail?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[RedheadZombie]

As many here have wished Wes's baby dead and gone and Laurel along with him, I'm sure there was a lot of disappointment.  The baby is alive, he's Wes's, Laurel is alive, Laurel's dad has her baby, and this is obviously the big storyline for the rest of the season.

I've been waiting for an answer to who Wes called.  It's not making any sense to me yet.  Why would Wes called Dominick for help?  Are they implying that Wes was working with Laurel's father?

I'm irritated at that implication that Bipolar only requires an anti-depressant.  Laurel would have been on far more if she were bipolar.  And if she went off the anti-depressant on doctor's orders, there would have been a follow up and she would have been told to wean herself off.  Please don't give people reluctant to take an anti-depressant for depression another reason to fear they'll "go crazy".

I know there was a lot going on, but I expected Annalise to tell Laurel the baby was indeed Wes's.  Somehow I think that would reassure Laurel, especially right after Frank has killed again.

[Annber03]

27 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Oliver, you do NOT get to drop the "you people" line. Connor ran himself ragged to keep you away from this crap, and you just plowed right in because you thought it was exciting. Slow your rolls. The gang might be sketchy, but your in this too now. 

Yeah, I like that Michaela reminded him of that. I agree with the general sentiment of Oliver's comments, but he's definitely the last person who should be saying such things.

16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

An excellent episode for Michaela as well. I feel somewhat bad for her, although her crawling back to Annalise because they were in trouble was a little frustrating. Still, girl held it together as long as she could but she fell apart. 

Aja sold the hell out of Michaela's whole "shocked, haunted, WTF?" reaction throughout. I just wanted to give her a big ol' hug throughout the entire episode. 

The whole scene with Annalise and Laurel in her hospital room was really bittersweet and touching. I liked Laurel thanking Annalise for saving her and her baby, and Annalise showing her a photo of her son got to me a bit. Even if they do manage to get the baby back from Laurel's dad, however, I still don't see her keeping it. Maybe she'll put the baby up for adoption or something. 

And now I'm curious about these connections between Wes and Dominic and whatnot. Hm. 

[UNOSEZ]

Now I need to know what wes was up to with Dominic… It obviously didn’t end well… unless it's like someone said... And Dominic just intercepted the call... Kinda odd that after all this time he still has the voicemail... I still want them to reach out to wes’ family.. They’ve got money and power.. The grandmother seemed somewhat concerned

[Blue Plastic]

Okay, that was an interesting twist, making it look as though Wes knew and called Dominic.  WTF?  That is what interested me the most in this episode, so it will probably end up having some stupid, weaksauce explanation.

Agree with other posters saying Oliver can shut up now with his "you people" business.  The time has long passed for Oliver to try to claim innocence.  But this just brings me around to being mad at Laurel, Michaela, and Asher too.  They really don't ever learn!

Since when does going off your antidepressant (especially under supervision of your doctor) mean that you are obviously in need of a psychiatric hold?

I gasped when Frank slammed Dominic's head against the car.

[possibilities]

Dominic killed Wes on behalf of Laurel's father. Maybe whoever Wes called, that person forwarded it to Laurel's father, who sent it to Dominic. Wes trusted the wrong person. Also, he used his birth name, not his new name. Hmmmn.

Oliver chose to be in on what they were doing, but I think he always thought they were doing things to hurt "bad guys" and help the innocent. The difference here is that he sees Simon as innocent. I thought his outburst was a lot like when Annalise got mad at them and told them she draws the line at murder: "we're not animals!" Of course, he was willing to destroy Simon's life by framing him, so I don't know why he thinks he's got the moral high ground here. But I do think that was where he was coming from.

Maybe Nate has the hard drive? Someone planted it on Simon. Who else would have access?

I am interested in Tegan's next move. I think if anyone can go toe to toe with Annalise, she's it.

[Queena]

I wonder who has the hard drive? I wasn't expecting Frank to just kill Dominic like that. You're supposed to get the information before you kill them, not after. 

 

Frank is so hot. Yes, I'm shallow. 

[NUguy514]

Jesus fucking Christ, Oliver.

Get off your goddamn cross of moral hypocrisy right the fuck now, 'kay?

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

What a great episode! I haven't enjoyed the show this much since early season 3.

Direct quote from my sister: "How Frank gon' be that baby's father? That's a black ass baby!" Truth.

Connor saying he's a lawyer made me chuckle. LOL, whut?

I see Isaac is the latest person to regret giving Annalise any personal info about himself. Live and learn, Isaac.

Tegan totally didn't buy Michaela's lies. That can't be good.

I had a feeling Simon was alive. 
Oliver has been doing the dirt with "these people" for a while now. A little late for him to get precious.

Did Dominic intercept Wes' last voicemail?

I was like “That baby is brown, Frank” when he insisted he was the father.

I am legit afraid for that baby now that Mr. Castillo has him. I don’t think he’d hurt him but I do think he’d give him away/have him adopted or something.

The actor who plays Simon was on The Good Place tonight. VERY different role (probably more fun to play than Simon).

”You just ... never learn.” Viola Davis is SO GOOD. When she snapped into lawyer mode, I was here for it. By the end she was Tired, Exasperated Mom-Figure. I think Tegan is going to be her foil; she’s smart and knows something is up.

[Queena]

After the stuff Bonnie pulled earlier in the season, she deserved for an Annalise to talk to her a little mean. Bonnie started seeing her therapist to get at Annalise... That's crazy. Annalise was trying to set them free, and look at what happens when she does try to stay out of their lives? 

[darkestboy]

How the hell did Simon actually survive that shot to the head? Oh well, he's going to be more of a problem alive than dead as well.

Oliver was being a hypocrite but I do see why he was angry at the rest of the gang to be honest.

Connor posing as his lawyer was amusing though. Michaela definitely screwed herself with Tegan and Asher could still go to prison though.

Annalise and Bonnie, the tension is still there and the former attack on Isaac was a little harsh but he is a bad doctor.

Frank killing Dominic just as things were getting interesting, damn.

Wasn't expecting the Wes cameo either, 8/10

[Lady Calypso]

54 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

Given Annalise's and the Keating 5's track record of being suspects and witnesses in SEVERAL murder cases over the years, it's surprising they're not constantly surveilled by police. 

That reminds me of the funniest moment of the episode: the police officer realizing whose apartment he was at. His reaction was hilarious when he realized he was at Annalise's place. 

[Moxie Cat]

11 hours ago, Empress1 said:

think Tegan is going to be her foil; she’s smart and knows something is up.

I think this is true, and also that Tegan's line about Annaliese being hot wasn't throwaway. I would be shocked if something steamy didn't happen between them by the finale.

I am loving this show. So much richer than Scandal right now.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Moxie Cat

[Milaxx]

Such a good episode! I know this was supposed to have been the mid season finale but TBH I kinda preferred it being the opener for the second half.  I loved seeing all the ending tied up. Obessive that I am I'm going to need to binge last season again. I'm not sure if Wes called Dominick or if Dominick had spoofed a call that Wes made to someone. if it's the former than that sheds new light on Wes crying out, "Why are you doing this!" as Dom killed him. If it's thee later than my guess is he was calling Sylvia Mahooney.

I did suspect that Simon didn't die and that Jorge would somehow kidnap Laurel's baby if the baby lived.  I will say as much as they managed to screw things up, they did appear to learn a few lessons from being in the Keating murder club. Asher was right about his DNA. Micheala quickly sussed out what Asher said & was highly skeptical bout how much info Isaac did and din't know. One worrying thing is Tegan is not falling for Micheala's act at all. I love how it's still unclear if Tegan is a good guy or a bad guy yet.  Isaac had no idea what he has gotten himself into. Notable moments: Laurel finally being grateful to AK after showing her behind since Wes death.  Oliver truly understanding what it means to be in the Keating murder club. The look AK gave them when they realized she's going to have to save them from another mess after she cut ties so they could have some chance at living a normal non-murdery life.

20 hours ago, doram said:

Wow, I have to give it to the writers of this show - they did a brilliant of stitching together a lot, if not all, the dangling threads of not just the winter finale but even the season before (Wes's mysterious call).

Also how HTGAWM-ish that Dominic died just as we realized he had all the answers.

I think it was a matter of availability. He was promoted to series regular on The Good Doctor.

20 hours ago, Jeopardy15 said:

Soooooo Wes/Christophe called Dominic??? Huh??? 

Not 100% sure if he called him or if Dom eavesdropped on the call.

17 hours ago, iheartET said:

Comments:

 

1) Thank goodness Connor and Oliver didn’t get killed by Dominic. Whew!

 

2) I love that last name Casteo.

 

3) I am really disappointed Frank is not the father. That would have been the cherry on top for him and Laurel!

 

4) That elevator needs to be updated. It is causing nothing but trouble!

 

5) I am tired of Annalise talking down to Bonnie. Enough is enough already!

 

6)  Even when Annalise walked away from K4, she winded up coming back into their lives. Annalise is like the mother for the K4.

 

7) Annalise is treating her therapist like garbage!

 

8) This is the most trouble the group has been in. And it’s going to take a professional to clean up all this mess for them.

 

9) Forget it. Now that Simon is alive, they are going to have even more mess to clean up.

 

10) Wow I didn’t think anyone could take out Dominic. And who knows maybe Dominic was going to kill Oliver. I hope this doesn’t end Frank and Laurel’s relationship, because that would add to the disappointment of him not being the father.

 

 

Questions:

11) Does anyone think that Dominic really meant to warn Laurel to protect her?

 

12) Why did Laurel think Frank was stupid to kill Dominic?

 

13) WHAT?!!! Why would Wes call Dominic and say it’s Christoph? Why would Wes turn to him for help?

Laurel's last name is Castillo. Laurel thinks it was stupid because if he was willing to call and warn her about her father, then Laurel may have been able to persuade Dom to help her get her child back. Now that Frank has killed him it's likely to A)Only piss her father off more. B)Means the one tool they had is no longer an option. Frank killing Dom out of anger was impulsive and unhelpful.

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

That reminds me of the funniest moment of the episode: the police officer realizing whose apartment he was at. His reaction was hilarious when he realized he was at Annalise's place. 

It also makes me side eye that officer. Did he take the hard drive? There's very few people who may have it. Either the officer took it and gave it to Denver or Bonnie is lying and she has it.

[Kira53]

21 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I know there was a lot going on, but I expected Annalise to tell Laurel the baby was indeed Wes's.  Somehow I think that would reassure Laurel, especially right after Frank has killed again.

Laurel already had the results of the DNA testing from the OB.  She already knew Frank wasn’t the father.

[RedheadZombie]

4 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Laurel already had the results of the DNA testing from the OB.  She already knew Frank wasn’t the father.

I don't remember that at all.  So she withheld this from Frank?

[secnarf]

19 hours ago, iheartET said:

2) I love that last name Casteo.

It's spelled Castillo. It's Spanish.

12 hours ago, darkestboy said:

How the hell did Simon actually survive that shot to the head? Oh well, he's going to be more of a problem alive than dead as well.

I do not have a decent medical answer (not a neurosurgeon!) but nearly 50 years ago, Robert Kennedy lasted 26 hours after being shot in the head. If that could happen half a century ago, I can believe that Simon has survived several hours.

44 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I don't remember that at all.  So she withheld this from Frank?

I only have a vague memory of this and I could be making this up, but I thought that she told Frank and he said he didn't care, he'd still raise the kid as his own.

 

Just got around to watching this episode now. The writers and set people obviously don't have the first clue about a premature (or newborn) baby. The heart rate on the monitor was sustained at 60, which actually would warrant resuscitation, not result in sats of 98%. The respiratory rate was also much too slow, just by visually looking at the baby. A child deprived of oxygen that long should be cooled x 72 hours to try and protect whatever neurological functions are left. And if the child has an ETT connected to a vent to help him breathe, then he does still need that vent connected while being transported. Of course, in real life, Annalise never would have resuscitated that baby.

As this whole plot seems to hinge on the baby surviving, the improbability of it all really grates on me. Even just today, I saw a baby who was more likely to survive, who didn't.

Other than that, I liked how everything tied together, and wasn't expecting the voicemail Wes left to have been on Dominic's phone. Looking forward to getting the story there.

[UNOSEZ]

Small and ultimately inconsequential matter.. But I thought that baby was too dark.. I guess they wanted to drive Hone that it was wes' kid.. But I mean.  .wes is biracial.. Laurel is a very euro looking Latina.. Sure in universe her dad is tan and indigenous looking.. But still even with recessive genes that kid shoulda been lighter... Again not really important.. But it kinda bugged me

[Neurochick]

23 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Direct quote from my sister: "How Frank gon' be that baby's father? That's a black ass baby!" Truth.

I laughed when Laurel's dad shouted, "this is my grandson."  Annalise should have said SHE was the baby's grandmother, because that made more sense than that dude being the grandfather.

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, doram said:

Didn't Wes leave a voice message?

Yeah, they really wanted to remove all the ambiguity of the paternity of the baby. Of course, they could have done that by not inserting a scene where Laurel cheated on Wes in the first place...

Lmao at that I know right.. And now they are at least hinting at some more wes shadiness... Man they gotta let my man Christophe be... I hope it's a red Herring  somehow 

[KaveDweller]

23 minutes ago, secnarf said:

It's spelled Castillo. It's Spanish.

I do not have a decent medical answer (not a neurosurgeon!) but nearly 50 years ago, Robert Kennedy lasted 26 hours after being shot in the head. If that could happen half a century ago, I can believe that Simon has survived several hours.

I only have a vague memory of this and I could be making this up, but I thought that she told Frank and he said he didn't care, he'd still raise the kid as his own.

I don't remember that happening either. Frank said if it turned out Wes was the father he would raise the kid, but I didn't think they actually knew for sure.  I feel like it would have gotten more attention.

I'm pretty sure they could claim Laurel's dad messed with the test if they don't really want to stick with Wes being the father. 

[secnarf]

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't remember that happening either. Frank said if it turned out Wes was the father he would raise the kid, but I didn't think they actually knew for sure.  I feel like it would have gotten more attention.

I'm pretty sure they could claim Laurel's dad messed with the test if they don't really want to stick with Wes being the father. 

You might be right!! And yes, they could still claim Frank is the father. Very premature babies all have dark reddish skin at first, because it's so translucent.

Anyone remember who knows that Frank killed Lila? I can't remember which characters do/don't know this.

[Fable]

I have a feeling Bonnie found the hard drive and likely gave it to Nate, who probably was able to plant it on Simon.  It seems a bit too convenient that Bonnie was near the elevator in the apartment building where Laurel gave birth and where Annalise stays, and that Asher now knows that Simon is alive.  The only person we saw Asher speaking to was Nate, so where else would he have gotten his information?   

I know I'm reaching, but @possibilities and @Milaxx mentioned Nate and Bonnie as well, so I don't think I'm alone.  

[talktalk]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:24 PM, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, Connor deserves better. 

Why? How is Oliver not good enough for Connor? Do explain. 

[Artsda]

Oliver was so in charge and gung ho to be in this, Connor tried to keep everyone out and Oliver is going to go "you people?" Oliver can die any time now. Too bad Frank killed Dominc before that could happen.

So is Wes alive and living as Christophe? Or he was an informant all along? 

I guess the baby is Wes's. What was the point of making Laurel/Frank have sex if it was still going to end up Wes's kid? I did laugh at Frank trying to claim the child as his. 

All this for Wes? All of them should have told Laurel hell no.  Connor and Asher were the only smarter ones.

[tennisgurl]

43 minutes ago, talktalk said:

Why? How is Oliver not good enough for Connor? Do explain. 

Connor isn't by any means a perfect wonderful person, but he has been a great boyfriend to Oliver, and Oliver has lied to him, guilted him, and through Connor into his "YOU PEOPLE" outburst in this weeks episode. Connor has worked his ass off to keep Oliver out of all of the Keating 5s drama and near murders and prison terms, and Oliver has just ignored him and gone on into it because he wanted excitement, and now that things went sideways (which Connor told him would happen a million times) he gets on his high horse, even towards his boyfriend, who just got him out of police custody. Thats not even getting into the whole thing where Oliver ruined his chance at going to a new law school, then dumped him afterwards. It just seems like Connor is WAY more into this relationship at this point, while Oliver just wants to hang with the cool kids. 

[secnarf]

37 minutes ago, Artsda said:

So is Wes alive and living as Christophe? Or he was an informant all along?

I don't think either of those conclusions are supported by this episode.

[helenamonster]

Yeah, this definitely felt more like a fall finale than a winter premiere, but it was excellent. I love when this show ties all the little threads together and opens up a new mystery. Are we about to get some shady af new backstory on dearly departed Wes/Christophe? I've always suspected the Castillos and the Mahoneys had a history but I didn't think he was involved with it. Definitely looking forward to the rest of the season.

I don't think Laurel knew the paternity before this whole mess happened. She sent in Frank's DNA for the test but I think the results came back before she could see them. At first I considered that maybe Jorge had changed the results as part of his scheme to keep Frank from getting in the way of his plans, but then I remembered that, as other people have said, there's no way Frank is that baby's father.

Sometimes I love these little idiots. "Simon lived? Well damn where's Frank, we gotta finish the job!" They're so intrenched in this endless cycle of murder and deceit that they've just stopped figuring out less drastic solutions to their problems. They really don't know how to approach situations like rational people anymore.

And, yes, fuck off forever, Oliver! You were just as much a part of this as anybody, more so than Connor, which is saying something since he's a K5 original and you just got indoctrinated last season.

Jorge fabricating Laurel's mental stability like that is really fucked up. She almost bled to death in an elevator, how could she receive a proper psych eval in that condition? I am curious to see if there's any merit to Dominic's dying words, that she really does have bigger ulterior motives than anyone knows about. I can't decide if I'd like that or not. In the first half of the season I'd hoped the grieving widow thing was just an act to get the others to do her bidding, and I definitely prefer her as the borderline sociopath who hides it behind shyness and awkwardness than the unstable woman grasping at revenge straws.

On 1/19/2018 at 8:44 AM, darkestboy said:

How the hell did Simon actually survive that shot to the head? Oh well, he's going to be more of a problem alive than dead as well.

My great uncle was shot in the head during WWII. Spent the rest of his life with a bullet in his brain because it was less dangerous than trying to take it out. Lived to a ripe old age with no cognitive impairment and died of skin cancer. It's all about where the bullet hits.

14 hours ago, doram said:

Yeah, they really wanted to remove all the ambiguity of the paternity of the baby. Of course, they could have done that by not inserting a scene where Laurel cheated on Wes in the first place...

Honest to fucking god. What was even the point of that except to contradict the earlier narrative that Wes and Laurel were soulmates and make Laurel look even crazier?

40 minutes ago, Artsda said:

So is Wes alive and living as Christophe? Or he was an informant all along? 

The phone call from Wes was a flashback to a scene we already saw that happened when he was on his way to Annalise's house to die. Whoever he called, whether it was Dominic or Dominic just intercepted the voicemail, knew him as Christophe, not Wes.

[cali1981]

Hmm... Don't know if I can stick the rest of this season out.  Aside from the gigantic plot holes, this episode had some of the worst over-acting that I've seen recently.  It was like a high school play where the kids are all desperately trying to reach the last row in the auditorium. 

[Milaxx]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:43 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I don't remember that at all.  So she withheld this from Frank?

She may have known but hadn't told Frank just yet. At the time when Frank said he didn't care he hadn't taken the paternity test yet. * Just rewatched this. The way the social worker lady phrased it when she told AK & Frank  about the paternity test made it seem like Laurel wasn't aware of the results either. This may be more of daddy Castillo's dirty work.

On 1/19/2018 at 10:28 PM, UNOSEZ said:

Small and ultimately inconsequential matter.. But I thought that baby was too dark.. I guess they wanted to drive Hone that it was wes' kid.. But I mean.  .wes is biracial.. Laurel is a very euro looking Latina.. Sure in universe her dad is tan and indigenous looking.. But still even with recessive genes that kid shoulda been lighter... Again not really important.. But it kinda bugged me

Not every biracial child brown skinned. I've known some dark skinned biracial children. Alfie (Wes) is biracial and is fairly dark. for all we know Laurel could have some Afro-Mex further up her family tree.

On 1/20/2018 at 2:49 AM, Fable said:

I have a feeling Bonnie found the hard drive and likely gave it to Nate, who probably was able to plant it on Simon.  It seems a bit too convenient that Bonnie was near the elevator in the apartment building where Laurel gave birth and where Annalise stays, and that Asher now knows that Simon is alive.  The only person we saw Asher speaking to was Nate, so where else would he have gotten his information?   

I know I'm reaching, but @possibilities and @Milaxx mentioned Nate and Bonnie as well, so I don't think I'm alone.  

I don't know if Bonnie gave the hard drive to Nate, but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if Bonnie was had stashed it.

On 1/20/2018 at 0:37 PM, Artsda said:

Oliver was so in charge and gung ho to be in this, Connor tried to keep everyone out and Oliver is going to go "you people?" Oliver can die any time now. Too bad Frank killed Dominc before that could happen.

So is Wes alive and living as Christophe? Or he was an informant all along? 

I guess the baby is Wes's. What was the point of making Laurel/Frank have sex if it was still going to end up Wes's kid? I did laugh at Frank trying to claim the child as his. 

All this for Wes? All of them should have told Laurel hell no.  Connor and Asher were the only smarter ones.

Oliver isn't the only one that was gung ho to do this.  Laurel &  Micheala were willing participants. In fact the sole reason they got Oliver the job at Caplan & Gold was because they needed his IT skills. However Connor was just as complicit the moment he decided not to tell Annalise what the rest were doing. 

Wes is not alive. We saw his autopsy. Christophe is his birth name. That leads me to believe he was calling Sylivia Mahooney & Domnick was eavesdropping and copied the email. Remember Jorge has been known to eavesdrop on Laurel's calls and he owns a tech company. He more than has the skills/people need to do something like that.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Milaxx

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Wes is not alive. We saw his autopsy. Christophe is his birth name. That leads me to believe he was calling Sylivia Mahooney & Domnick was eavesdropping and copied the email. Remember Jorge has been known to eavesdrop on Laurel's calls and he owns a tech company. He more than has the skills/people need to do something like that.

I think the same thing.. Tho if that's the case where the hell is she.. Ur grandson has been brutally murdered I've been waiting for her to show up at Anna's door like... "Let's squad up and get the bastards that did this"

[Milaxx]

Not sure what her deal is. When Annalise met her in NYC, she stormed out before she could explain. 

[RedheadZombie]

5 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I think the same thing.. Tho if that's the case where the hell is she.. Ur grandson has been brutally murdered I've been waiting for her to show up at Anna's door like... "Let's squad up and get the bastards that did this"

But didn't Annalise lay all the blame on Wes, therefore ensuring his legacy was that he was an evil man?  If the grandmother believes Annalise's story, she has no reason to feel vengeance at his death.

[wanderingstar]

21 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I laughed when Laurel's dad shouted, "this is my grandson."  Annalise should have said SHE was the baby's grandmother, because that made more sense than that dude being the grandfather.

Annalise is sort of the baby's grandmother, since Wes was her surrogate son.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

But didn't Annalise lay all the blame on Wes, therefore ensuring his legacy was that he was an evil man?  If the grandmother believes Annalise's story, she has no reason to feel vengeance at his death.

I'm pretty sure with all her past with the mahoneys and her looking into wes/Christophe she would take anything Anna says... Especially that was is a murderer with a grain of salt

[Kaiju Ballet]

I like the way all paths lead back to Annaliese. Hoping there’s a way to keep Tegan, although I can’t imagine how she could ever trust (or even stand) Michaela again. Even without knowing the full extent of Michaela’s betrayal, Tegan doesn’t look the type to tolerate being lied to. Hooray for the return of B613 (boo)/super secret agent man Frank!

I'm relieved that the baby survived, that Connor wasn’t killed by Dominic, Laurel reached for Anneliese’s hand, and even Frank seems to have repaired some of his relationship with AK.

Ouch moments—Anneliese blackmailing Isaac into giving Laurel a psych eval, then screaming at him about his daughter’s suicide. Hope they give Karla Souza a chance to move beyond the way they’ve destroyed Laurel’s character this season. Connor laying the guilt on Michaela, when she’s already distraught. Never change, Connor. Oliver and his indignation, a bit late.

As usual, I thoroughly enjoy the episode as it unfolds at a breakneck pace, and it’s after the credits roll that the questions start.

When did the scenes of Annaliese sitting in a shower, fully clothed and drenched in blood, take place?

How was Bonnie able to sign out Laurel’s bag and contents?

A) At what point was that elevator scene no longer considered a possible crime scene?

B) wouldn’t there be a record of all items retrieved at the scene/logged into evidence? Either that drive was taken before Bonnie got to it (the camera did linger on that drive spilling out of the bag) or Bonnie has some more tracks covering up to do.

How were the cops able to search Anneliese’s apartment, just based on that cop recognizing her name?

[rur]

7 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

When did the scenes of Annaliese sitting in a shower, fully clothed and drenched in blood, take place?

I figured they threw her into the shower in the hospital to calm her down after the two hefty security guards pulled her back from Laurel's father and the baby. She was wearing hospital-logo clothing afterward.

[helenamonster]

9 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

How was Bonnie able to sign out Laurel’s bag and contents?

I don't know what the actually legality of this situation would be in real life, but in the fast-and-loose laws of this show, Bonnie working for the DA's office gives her the authority to sign out evidence at will.

[Kaiju Ballet]

1 hour ago, rur said:

I figured they threw her into the shower in the hospital to calm her down after the two hefty security guards pulled her back from Laurel's father and the baby. She was wearing hospital-logo clothing afterward.

This makes sense. It did take me out a little bit to see AK running around in still-wet blood-splattered clothing, spreading blood-borne pathogens everywhere.

17 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

I don't know what the actually legality of this situation would be in real life, but in the fast-and-loose laws of this show, Bonnie working for the DA's office gives her the authority to sign out evidence at will.

I agree with the total handwavey approach to legalities in this show. I guess I was confused because there was that scene where Bonnie's conflict of interest was discussed. Also, wasn't Laurel Bonnie's intern? So within the confines of the show, it almost looks like Bonnie is daring Denver to be suspicious about her involvement with AK, as AK is directly linked to the scene from which Laurel's bag was retrieved.

Or maybe this is the beginning of Bonnie returning to AK.

[Milaxx]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:28 PM, secnarf said:

You might be right!! And yes, they could still claim Frank is the father. Very premature babies all have dark reddish skin at first, because it's so translucent.

Anyone remember who knows that Frank killed Lila? I can't remember which characters do/don't know this.

Just rewatched. Laurel didn't know the results of the paternity. The scene where the social worker(?) tells them the baby id being transferred and Frank tries once again to say he's the father,  she shows the results of the paternity test. AK asks if Laurel knows and it feels implied that Laurel hasn't seen those results yet.  

RE: Frank & Lila, Laurel knows, Bonnie knows and AK knows for sure. However since Laurel telling AK was the reason she ran back home and caused them to go into a flurry to get her to come back, I think they all know.

14 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I like the way all paths lead back to Annaliese. Hoping there’s a way to keep Tegan, although I can’t imagine how she could ever trust (or even stand) Michaela again. Even without knowing the full extent of Michaela’s betrayal, Tegan doesn’t look the type to tolerate being lied to. Hooray for the return of B613 (boo)/super secret agent man Frank!

I'm relieved that the baby survived, that Connor wasn’t killed by Dominic, Laurel reached for Anneliese’s hand, and even Frank seems to have repaired some of his relationship with AK.

Ouch moments—Anneliese blackmailing Isaac into giving Laurel a psych eval, then screaming at him about his daughter’s suicide. Hope they give Karla Souza a chance to move beyond the way they’ve destroyed Laurel’s character this season. Connor laying the guilt on Michaela, when she’s already distraught. Never change, Connor. Oliver and his indignation, a bit late.

As usual, I thoroughly enjoy the episode as it unfolds at a breakneck pace, and it’s after the credits roll that the questions start.

When did the scenes of Annaliese sitting in a shower, fully clothed and drenched in blood, take place?

How was Bonnie able to sign out Laurel’s bag and contents?

A) At what point was that elevator scene no longer considered a possible crime scene?

B) wouldn’t there be a record of all items retrieved at the scene/logged into evidence? Either that drive was taken before Bonnie got to it (the camera did linger on that drive spilling out of the bag) or Bonnie has some more tracks covering up to do.

How were the cops able to search Anneliese’s apartment, just based on that cop recognizing her name?

Tegan is tied to Jorge Castillio and Antares, as well as Caplan & Gold so I think for now the writers may be keeping her around. From my POV it's still unclear if she's a good guy or a bad guy.

 

As for the hard drive if Bonnie doesn't have it, it could be the cop at the scene who upon finding out it was AK's apartment immediately turned it into a crime scene. He could have grabbed it and passed it onto Denver who's.

 

Question: We know Jorge has a habit of tapping Laurel's phone which means he has the capacity to tap anyone's phone. I'm wondering if he tapped all or just one of the rest of the gang. I'm thinking at the very least he has AK tapped because somehow Dominick knew to go to Laurel's (Wes) apartment. I assume he was trying to get the hard drive from Laurel.  The last thing Dominick sis was order a tap on Oliver. Is Oliver now in danger?

Edited January 21, 2018 by Milaxx

[jhlipton]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:33 AM, nosleepforme said:

If Simon is healthier than a vegetable, it would be ridiculous. But I am fairly sure he won't remember anything if he wakes up.

This seems to be the new thing -- on The Good Doctor, they had a woman regain full cognitive ability after being in a vegetative state for several hours.

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:37 AM, Artsda said:

All this for Wes? All of them should have told Laurel hell no.  Connor and Asher were the only smarter ones.

All this for dumb-ass, manipulative Laurel.  She guiled them into going along with her dumb-ass plan (and, as she's the one who brought a gun, is the only one responsible for Simon's injuries).  Connor was smarter than even Asher, who let himself get dragged into this mess.   Although he was smart to tell the truth -- he's seen that the truth will out, and it's far better to get in front of it., 

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:21 PM, Milaxx said:

Oliver isn't the only one that was gung ho to do this.  Laurel &  Micheala were willing participants. In fact the sole reason they got Oliver the job at Caplan & Gold was because they needed his IT skills. However Connor was just as complicit the moment he decided not to tell Annalise what the rest were doing. 

Laurel wasn't a "participant" -- she was the driving force behind this latest mess. 

Connor is guilty of being an accomplice by knowing of a crime and not reporting it (he may have told Annalise first, but he needed to get the information to the police in order not to be charged).  That said, he (and Frank) was the only one not to be part of the current mess.

[Bort]

13 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

This seems to be the new thing -- on The Good Doctor, they had a woman regain full cognitive ability after being in a vegetative state for several hours.

Without know the details of the cause of the vegetative state on The Good Doctor, in Simon's case, he left some brain matter on the wall. That shit doesn't grow back. Whether it was brain matter that he was using won't be known until if/when he wakes up.

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Without know the details of the cause of the vegetative state on The Good Doctor, in Simon's case, he left some brain matter on the wall. That shit doesn't grow back. Whether it was brain matter that he was using won't be known until if/when he wakes up.

The show does have a habit of being dramatic.  However that looked more like blood splatter than actual brain matter.  US Rep Gabby Giffords survived a shot to the head. Simon could have been placed in a medically induced coma for his own good.  The show never said he was in a vegetative state.