S02.E12: Clooney

[bybrandy]

30 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

For me, I can get clothes on that are a size or sometimes even two sizes too small. It just looks bad. If she could easily fit in the 7, she wouldn't have struggled as much with the 5.

Okay, that's not been my experience.  I mean absolutely sure sometimes it is.  But other times the five is way too small and the 7 is way too big.  Or the 5 is just a little narrow in the hips so you're like "oh, the seven will totally work" but then the seven is all weirdly proportioned and not even a little bit good.   It absolutely can happen that you can wear a size up or down.  But sometimes one size works and the other totally doesn't.  And if you're me both sizes won't work for totally opposite reason.

Also not helping is that there is a pretty big margin for error that they allow in the size of a particular garment in mass manufacturing. I haven't been able to phrase this correctly for google to pick up on it but I swear a friend  posted an article a while back on Facebook about how they sew a whole bunch of things at the same time so the stuff at the top is trimmed less than the stuff at the bottom.  So a pair of size seven pants can differ about an inch all the way around from another pair of size seven pants sewn at the same time at the same facility using the same pattern.   Sometimes you can get a pair of pants that fits great and you're feeling great about yourself and you go to get another pair in the same size and style... and nope... not so much.   

[Miss Dee]

Yep - women's fashion is just one more area designed to make us feel never good enough and that we're not worth the cost of effort.

I like episodes where I feel everyone's POV is understandable. I really liked this episode.

[Kohola3]

Quote

 I continue to be amazed at how much the actress playing teenage Kate looks like adult Kate. 

Ditto.  Their chins are identical!

[Guest]

I nitpick this show a lot but I think a lot of things are really good about it, like all three teen actors.  

[debraran]

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Okay, that's not been my experience.  I mean absolutely sure sometimes it is.  But other times the five is way too small and the 7 is way too big.  Or the 5 is just a little narrow in the hips so you're like "oh, the seven will totally work" but then the seven is all weirdly proportioned and not even a little bit good.   It absolutely can happen that you can wear a size up or down.  But sometimes one size works and the other totally doesn't.  And if you're me both sizes won't work for totally opposite reason.

Also not helping is that there is a pretty big margin for error that they allow in the size of a particular garment in mass manufacturing. I haven't been able to phrase this correctly for google to pick up on it but I swear a friend  posted an article a while back on Facebook about how they sew a whole bunch of things at the same time so the stuff at the top is trimmed less than the stuff at the bottom.  So a pair of size seven pants can differ about an inch all the way around from another pair of size seven pants sewn at the same time at the same facility using the same pattern.   Sometimes you can get a pair of pants that fits great and you're feeling great about yourself and you go to get another pair in the same size and style... and nope... not so much.   

I can attest to same pants, brand, style etc. but different countries making it.  For example, I bought a nice pair of khakis years ago at TJ Maxx, good brand, they fit well and I thought, let me go back a get the black pair since they fit so nicely. They were snug and I thought did I put on that much weight in a week? I put on the khaki color and they were fine. My husband said to check the "made in" label and they were made in 2 different countries. I bet this happens all the time and in the same country. I know old navy had Rockstar jeans for daughter in denim color and the black color was smaller in the same size. The cashier said she sees people returning jeans because of that all the time.

It's sad, but you can't always tell and it's frustrating.

Edited January 19, 2018 by debraran

[QQQQ]

I've been overweight my whole life, and there's a constant tape playing in my head about food, being fat, losing weight. My adult weight has fluctuated between 120 and 300. No matter what I've tried - and I've tried it all, from gastric bypass to Weight Watchers - I can't (won't?) maintain a healthy weight and always return to obesity. Kate saying the "thin her" missed the negative voice was a gut punch - I literally stopped breathing while she was talking. I guess the one thing I haven't tried is therapy...

[MsChicklet]

Fat people get the message all the time that losing weight will make their lives all better. I see the ads on TV every damned morning where people who got a balloon inside their stomachs are positively bubbling over talking about how awesome everything is now. Teen Kate made herself miserable (and probably malnourished, which can affect your mental and emotional health) losing weight. But while her body changed, she herself didn't. She still had the same low self-worth, the same anxieties, the same buttons that could be pushed, the same addictive/compulsive thoughts about food. A friend with anxiety and depression issues calls it Radio KFUK playing in your head, all the hits like "Not Good Enough, Never Will Be Good Enough" and "Everyone Knows You Suck." Kate lost weight, but Radio KFUK is not about her weight. That's why she self-sabotaged with the dress. She could no longer direct her anger and self-hate at what she saw in the mirror. Losing the weight meant losing the barrier between herself and having to deal with the real issues. That's pretty scary for anyone, much less a teen with all the other teen stuff going on.

[Jax7917]

Idk, I feel like Rebecca could have made some one on one time for Kevin. He just flat out told you his problems he has with you and how he feels like you never really gave a crap about him. I know he's 37, but he's still her son. Take a day off from Miguel and spend some time with your son. 

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, QQQQ said:

I've been overweight my whole life, and there's a constant tape playing in my head about food, being fat, losing weight. My adult weight has fluctuated between 120 and 300. No matter what I've tried - and I've tried it all, from gastric bypass to Weight Watchers - I can't (won't?) maintain a healthy weight and always return to obesity. Kate saying the "thin her" missed the negative voice was a gut punch - I literally stopped breathing while she was talking. I guess the one thing I haven't tried is therapy...

With tons of respect and sympathy: According to the CDC, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years, and JMO but I don't think we all  have that negative voice in our head, (though many certainly do,)  so I don't  want the show to portray therapy  as the weight loss solution for  Kate. 

Therapy would certainly help Kate with the guilt she carries about her father's death and the self-esteem problems about her size, but I would want the therapist to work toward self-acceptance at any size rather than expect her sessions to result in permanent weight loss.  Our bodies are hardwired to regain lost weight the same way we're hardwired to come up for air when we've been swimming under water. 

I constantly yo-yo, too. Right now I've been doing the intermittent fasting thing for five months and lost 25 pounds.  I no longer expect lasting results.  I consider these dieting periods as rests for my body, but know that eventually the hunger, which is rising weekly, will win out and I'll return to free eating and regain the loss.  I refuse to hate myself for that.  Life is short and I can enjoy it in my fat suit or the loose one with the saggy skin.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

According to the CDC, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years,

I'd love links that support that, if you have them.  I've seen evidence to the contrary. 

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/health/95-regain-lost-weight-or-do-they.html

[MissLucas]

If the scene in the changing room really implies that Kate's low self-esteem isn't (solely) rooted in her weight and body issues then I would like to see what else is/was going on. So far the show played it pretty straight with Kate's problems  - which is probably too simplistic in the first place. If there's more I'd like to see it. I could imagine that her brothers - one being all charm and the other all brains - might have played a part too.

[Pallas]

On 1/18/2018 at 9:16 AM, qtpye said:

I hate to say this because Madison seems so sweet...but her mental illness might be one of the reasons she is gunning so hard for Kate.    I had a dear friend who dies from Anorexia/Bulimia many years ago.  As the disease began to progress, she started obsessing about always being the skinniest in the room.  It was like being skinny was her superpower and anyone who was smaller fueled her issues.

Also, Kate has said that she has had a lifelong resentment of her mother, just based on Rebecca's looks.  Madison will make Kate feel naturally self-conscious about her own issues with food.

A great reminder that body dysmorphia is a mental illness that can kill if it triggers anorexia/bulimia. Madison isn't just being a silly about how she looks. She's in trouble.  

Quote

 

Now why the heck Mads want to be friends with Kate as opposed to the other overweight people in the room, who are usually much nicer to her, I really have no clue.

 

For Madison, Kate's a 2-for-1: Kate's size is reassuring and Kate's unkindness is gratifying, especially when Madison can seem to have the power to turn it around.  Madison alternately gratifies and abuses her body. To a degree, Kate does the same to her. For Madison, Kate herself is a version of what Kate calls "the voice." The nemesis that assures you that you are super-evil. 

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Pallas said:

A great reminder that body dysmorphia is a mental illness that can kill if it triggers anorexia/bulimia. Madison isn't just being a silly about how she looks. She's in trouble.  

I don't know that anybody ever said that she was just being silly (except for maybe Kate, but I meant on the board), just that she was not in the right support group. And, I'll stand by that.  The group she's in is geared towards losing weight and eating healthy.  Now, while Madison will, of course, benefit from eating healthily, she has different nutritional needs and psychological needs than an obese person.

[MsChicklet]

Quote

Now why the heck Mads want to be friends with Kate as opposed to the other overweight people in the room, who are usually much nicer to her, I really have no clue.

It may be Madison's own issues, winning someone over makes her feel good or fills a hole in her psyche, perhaps. Or maybe something in Kate resonates with her or connects with something in her own life.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

With tons of respect and sympathy: According to the CDC, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years, and JMO but I don't think we all  have that negative voice in our head, (though many certainly do,)  so I don't  want the show to portray therapy  as the weight loss solution for  Kate. 

Therapy would certainly help Kate with the guilt she carries about her father's death and the self-esteem problems about her size, but I would want the therapist to work toward self-acceptance at any size rather than expect her sessions to result in permanent weight loss.  Our bodies are hardwired to regain lost weight the same way we're hardwired to come up for air when we've been swimming under water. 

I constantly yo-yo, too. Right now I've been doing the intermittent fasting thing for five months and lost 25 pounds.  I no longer expect lasting results.  I consider these dieting periods as rests for my body, but know that eventually the hunger, which is rising weekly, will win out and I'll return to free eating and regain the loss.  I refuse to hate myself for that.  Life is short and I can enjoy it in my fat suit or the loose one with the saggy skin.

My opinion is that Kate is in need of medical supervision, because self-help isn't cutting it.  She revealed another layer to her problem in this episode that would seem to beg for psychological intervention, too.  She isn't just having 20-30-40 pounds to battle, she is at high risk for major problems.  It's an all-hands-on-deck type scenario for her and right now she only has a support group that we know of. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

A great reminder that body dysmorphia is a mental illness that can kill if it triggers anorexia/bulimia. Madison isn't just being a silly about how she looks. She's in trouble.  

Her being faint and passing out worried me. Though Madison doesn't seem to be anorexic, I thought of Karen Carpenter, who died young as a result of the damage anorexia/bulimia did to her body.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Clanstarling

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'd love links that support that, if you have them.  I've seen evidence to the contrary. 

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/health/95-regain-lost-weight-or-do-they.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.html  This is where I most recently saw it, but as your article states, I've been seeing that statistic everywhere for many years.  If it's not true, I would be really  happy to find a newer, better study that disproves that first one.  The collection of success stories, in the NY Times article only proves to me that the five percent who manage to lose it and keep it off are more than happy to talk about it.

[Kohola3]

Well, the NY Times article was from 1999 so I'd take that with a grain of salt.  There must be a lot of studies more recent than that.

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The collection of success stories, in the NY Times article only proves to me that the five percent who manage to lose it and keep it off are more than happy to talk about it.

Agreed.  Those of us who have gone the yo-yo route throughout our lives are hardly going to be proud of it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Well, the NY Times article was from 1999 so I'd take that with a grain of salt. 

But the study in question is from 1959, and based on 100 subjects.  I wouldn't be basing life decisions on that.  

But we had this (fun) discussion in the off-topic forum here last season so I'll stop.  Carry on!

[cameron]

On 1/16/2018 at 10:46 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She did find a dress in her size-the size 7 fit her well, but it didn't make her happy. (I will say, though, that despite what Kate said in in the present, her teen self was not as thin as present-day Madison, who is extremely thin.)

I don't think that she was ever a size 7.  She looks a lot larger than that.

[Pallas]

On 1/17/2018 at 8:37 PM, MsChicklet said:

I liked the way Clooney was woven in, and that there wasn't a meet-cute with Randall but he stayed in the neighborhood.

 

Me too.

 

On 1/18/2018 at 1:56 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I cared about the cat more than anyone/anything in this episode. I was actually annoyed that Randall could not be bothered to find Clooney, and even if he could not take him home himself at least attempt to find Clooney a home. I did think the comment "Strays have a way of ending up with the person who needs them" was an interesting comment said to Randall, since Randall was abandoned and presumably ended up with people who needed him. 

And by the end, William's whole building -- including Clooney -- got adopted by Randall and Beth. Two people in need of that job.

I like how Randall is beginning to see that he can help people within their own contexts, their own communities. (Their own dioramas.) And I'm not sure that he and the family are long for the chilly white heights of Alpine. 

[PRgal]

57 minutes ago, cameron said:

I don't think that she was ever a size 7.  She looks a lot larger than that.

Kate held (and still holds) a lot of her bulk in the abdomen, which is why she looked bigger than a size 7 as a teen.  Sadly, this is the worst kind of fat to have, healthwise.  

[JudyObscure]

Hannah, the actress who plays teenage Kate,  is short like Chrissy Metz and  has a round face as well as the tummy PRgal mentioned.  She could be the same weight and size as a taller more angular girl and seem much heavier.

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

She isn't just having 20-30-40 pounds to battle, she is at high risk for major problems. 

 You're right, I tend to forget that Kate/Chrissy is in a more dangerous group than most of us.

[nexxie]

Really liked all the storylines in this episode - just wish Beth wasn’t always so sour; maybe the writers will let the building project bring her some joy.

[ErinV]

On 1/16/2018 at 10:05 PM, MyAimIsTrue said:

When did Cathy Moriarty turn into Gena Rowlands?

Until just now I just assumed that WAS G.R.!

[Guest]

I don’t think Hanna Ziele is a size 7 but it’s not like they could’ve re-cast someone slender for this ep, so I’m fine with it.  

[J-Man]

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I found it disrespectful and a little jarring for TeenKevin to call Miguel by his first name.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, J-Man said:

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I found it disrespectful and a little jarring for TeenKevin to call Miguel by his first name.

It depends on the family, I always called my parents close friends that I knew all my life by their first names because I had been saying them since I learned to talk and suddenly changing to Mr. Or Mrs. Last Name would have been weird. I know some people who would add Aunt or Uncle in those circumstances but my parents thought that was weird. 

[Katy M]

My friends' kids call me by my first name.  I honestly think it would be weird if they called me Miss last name.  I've known them since they were babies.  They're practically family.

[Kohola3]

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I found it disrespectful and a little jarring for TeenKevin to call Miguel by his first name.

I agree but I do think that's both generational and regional. We always called elders either Aunt/Uncle or Mr. or Mrs.  No first names allowed even if we'd known them since birth.

Quote

I don’t think Hanna Ziele is a size 7 but it’s not like they could’ve re-cast someone slender for this ep, so I’m fine with it.  

I thought that at the time as well.  But TV does add weight so she could be slimmer in "real" life.  I've always been shocked seeing some actors in person and how much thinner they look. Sometimes it's quite jarring.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Kohola3

[bybrandy]

9 hours ago, J-Man said:

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I found it disrespectful and a little jarring for TeenKevin to call Miguel by his first name.

I'm a year older than the big 3 and my parents were first name people.  Some of my friends parents weren't.   But all but one of my friends called my parents by their first names because that is how my parents preferred to be called.   I called most of their friends by their first names as well because that is how my parents introduced me.  But my grandparents introduced me to their friends as Mr. or Mrs. Whatever and I would call them that.   

I have a  friend whose parents insisted she call adults Mr. or Mrs.  My parents insisted on being called by their first names.  So to this day this friend calls my mom Ms. Chris.  My mom LOATHES It!!!  And my friend is still slightly uncomfortable not calling my mom Ms. Last Name.   

Edited January 20, 2018 by bybrandy

[J-Man]

I thought it was odd that Jack referred to Rebecca's "phonograph." I think that term fell out of favor after the '60s. By that time, most people had "turntables."

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, J-Man said:

I thought it was odd that Jack referred to Rebecca's "phonograph." I think that term fell out of favor after the '60s. By that time, most people had "turntables."

I think he might have been picking on her because her taste in music is older than his.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I think he might have been picking on her because her taste in music is older than his.

Or he just called it what he grew up calling it. I'm a little younger (more a 70's girl), and I refer to it as a record player. Turntable never entered my vocabulary as the current thing to call it. Just as I still say "pound sign" instead of "hash tag." I know the term, recognize it, but it's not what comes to my tongue when I'm talking casually.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Clanstarling

[chocolatine]

13 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Just as I still say "pound sign" instead of "hash tag."

Apologies for the OT, but a "hash tag" is technically the combination of the pound sign and the expression that follows it. It wouldn't be a "tag" without words. The pound sign has been referred to as "hash symbol" in programming for decades, so that's nothing new.

[Clanstarling]

18 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Apologies for the OT, but a "hash tag" is technically the combination of the pound sign and the expression that follows it. It wouldn't be a "tag" without words. The pound sign has been referred to as "hash symbol" in programming for decades, so that's nothing new.

No apologies necessary. I do know that they're used with words, generally speaking (and how they were referred to in the programming world). But it's use seems to have drifted into other uses as well. I attend webinars for web professionals that always tell me to "press the pound sign or hash tag" when I'm dialing in. At least that's what I heard - I'll have to listen closer next time. :)

Edited January 20, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Or he just called it what he grew up calling it. I'm a little younger (more a 70's girl), and I refer to it as a record player. Turntable never entered my vocabulary as the current thing to call it. Just as I still say "pound sign" instead of "hash tag." I know the term, recognize it, but it's not what comes to my tongue when I'm talking casually.

I just can't imagine someone who was a teenage in the '50s or '60s calling it a phonograph.  That sounds like late 1800s early 1900s vernacular to me.  For the fun of it, I looked it up, and it's been called a record player since the '40s.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I just can't imagine someone who was a teenage in the '50s or '60s calling it a phonograph.  That sounds like late 1800s early 1900s vernacular to me.  For the fun of it, I looked it up, and it's been called a record player since the '40s.  

I think I've heard it called a phonograph sometime in my early life.  It might be regional.  We actually called it a stereo even if it was only a record player. 

[Kohola3]

Quote

I attend webinars for web professionals that always tell me to "press the pound sign or hash tag" when I'm dialing in.

I think she's saying, in her ever so proper British accent, "press the pound or hash key".  But I could be wrong.  They are going to have to update that since cell phones don't have keys!

And, since I am old as dirt, we had record players. 

[Portia]

On 1/18/2018 at 8:56 AM, ShadowFacts said:

It was totally rude and I prefaced my previous post with that, but I confess to a small amount of vicarious enjoyment of the applicant not going into an interview with hat in hand.  

I agree!  It's not quite the same thing,  but I once figured out midway through an interview that they must have already picked someone out for the position.  I was so pissed--I really wanted the job and had spent weeks preparing.  I wish I'd had the nerve to just take a phone call in the middle of the interview and just not come back.  

Forgive me if someone already said this and I missed it... When they first showed the girl who Randall wanted to ask out,  I thought it was Rebecca.  Paging Dr.  Freud,  right? And we've already seen teen Kevin tease him about wanting to date Mom. 

[Clanstarling]

45 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I think she's saying, in her ever so proper British accent, "press the pound or hash key".  But I could be wrong.  They are going to have to update that since cell phones don't have keys!

I will be sure to listen more closely next time. Mine doesn't have a British accent, but I'm sure they localize it. :)

28 minutes ago, Portia said:

I agree!  It's not quite the same thing,  but I once figured out midway through an interview that they must have already picked someone out for the position.  I was so pissed--I really wanted the job and had spent weeks preparing.  I wish I'd had the nerve to just take a phone call in the middle of the interview and just not come back.  

I've walked into interviews and known at that moment that I didn't want to be there. Every place has a vibe, and this one was screaming at me to run. It was also clear that the interviewer didn't want me either, from the first words we exchanged. But even in an urban area (which I was in) it's a small world, and walking out would not only have been rude, but could have bitten me in the ass with other potential employers. Randall's rudeness could do the same, but I haven't seen a lot of consequences for bad behavior with the Pearsons, so who knows.

Soapbox moment - I hate organizations who actually invite you (in this case, my daughter) to more than one in person interview and then ghost you. Talk about rude.

[PRgal]

13 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It depends on the family, I always called my parents close friends that I knew all my life by their first names because I had been saying them since I learned to talk and suddenly changing to Mr. Or Mrs. Last Name would have been weird. I know some people who would add Aunt or Uncle in those circumstances but my parents thought that was weird. 

I didn't think first names were common back in my day.  It was Mr./Mrs. (or Dr.) Lastname (or Ms. if mom did not change her last name) - mostly for my "western" (i.e. non-Asian) friends.  Asian friends' parents were Uncle and Auntie Firstname.  I am personally a last name person.  I cringe when friends introduce us as firstname - even ones whose parents were Mr. and Mrs. back in the day- (all my friends of Asian heritage introduce us as Uncle and Auntie, without hesitation).  However, I'm not sure if I should be correcting them?

[kili]

Quote

 He didn't ask her to the dance, so they also must have been "just hanging out" that night. 

Randall also goes to a different school so his winter formal may be on a different night than Kate and Kevin's.

Another option Kevin's suit was not destroyed in the fire is that it was being altered. Suits are meant to fit, so they often need alterations. If the fire happened within the week of the mall trip, then that's a possibility.

I kind of liked how Miguel was walking the line of letting Rebecca and Kevin be alone while still popping in to make sure things were okay. He kept running off to the juice aisle. Either that, or he is a big fan of juice.

The park could have failed to get the land either because the city owned it and thought the city would get benefits from having a large employer or the city did not own the land and was bidding on the land, but lost out to Costco. 

Annie probably wants a Costco because she has a plethora of parks in her area. She probably cannot comprehend areas with no parks. She lives in an area where practically every house has a parklike yard. So, the Costco would be the more unique and interesting thing.

I was beginning to think the poem was about the cat. 

I'm with Beth. Randall needs a focus. I'm not sure a tenement building in another state should be that focus. Maybe something closer to home.

[sofaslug]

Clooney was my favorite character this week, maybe because I've rescued a few "Clooneys" over the past couple of years.

I'm a bit surprised that a halfway house wasn't recommended for Kevin to continue his recovery work.  I'm leery of him having a positive outcome going to his mother's house.

I wonder if Madison might be a binge/purge person and she goes to Kate's meeting due to bingeing behavior.

I agree with others that Randall's taking the phone call during the interview was rude.  I do think he's still mourning William's death.  I think he's still trying to build a more complete picture of who his father was.

[breezy424]

Ok.  There's no Costcos' in Trenton.  And I'll add that my kids always loved (and still do) going there.  Remember when it was Price Club...at least for some of us. 

I still can't figure out what Beth does.  I thought she worked in Newark.  But maybe she has a job that covers the whole state.  Trenton is quite a distance from Alpine or Newark.

Other weird notes:  Randall drives a $100,000 plus car.  Beth drives a pretty ordinary American SUV.  I would think she would have at least a 'luxury' SUV like an Audi Q or Lexus RX.

Randall makes these trips to Phillie like it's around the corner.  It's not. 

Jack died in the late nineties.  I know that in NJ you had to have a smoke detector on every floor way before then.  And contrary to what someone stated earlier, when the battery is dying, the thing beeps...for a long time.  It just doesn't go dead.  Ok. I'm sure people will have stories of people having multiple stories of fires starting with multiple smoke alarms in which one wasn't working.  I don't think Jack died because of the smoke alarm.  Seems to me he went back into the house for some sort of reason.  I don't think the smoke alarm had anything to do with it.  And yes, a fire can burn a house to the ground even if there are multiple smoke alarms.  Their main purpose is to warn people to get out of the dwelling and get the fire trucks there.  

I also don't 'get' Kate and the voices.  I was a fat teenager.  Then I lost the weight.  I felt good.  And kept it off for the rest of my life so far.....well except when I was pregnant....but went back to an average weight after each pregnancy.

Clooney was the most interesting character this episode with Kevin a close second.  I cringed when that cat was running across the street and running from those kids.  Thank goodness, he seems to be safe.  Kevin asked questions that we all wanted to know.  Even for me, Rebecca's and Miquel's relationship seems...I don't know....almost kind of uncomfortable.  I get her explanation of it but I can also get Kevin's not understanding it. 

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, kili said:

The park could have failed to get the land either because the city owned it and thought the city would get benefits from having a large employer or the city did not own the land and was bidding on the land, but lost out to Costco. 

I am getting such a Parks and Recreation flashback (S1, anyway) in this discussion...

[memememe76]

I get Kate. I never tried on a piece of clothing knowingly that it would not fit, but I have never truly been happy with my body. I tend to always buy clothes 1 or 2 sizes bigger than me, because I always expect to gain back some of my weight. I have those voices, still.

[bros402]

I loved costco as a kid. The free samples were great - and you can get hot dog & a drink for under $2

[debraran]

In a interview Fogleman said Beth and Randall would be working on building together, the idea came from a worker there who had someone he know, fix up a building and make it livable and a better place for the tenants. How they do it, still to come. They will explore more of William's past, losing Jack was awful but Randall has a past the other's don't and it comforts him to find out more. Why he hasn't reached out to Jesse, time will tell. He stated "A second Memphis story was the original concept for the Thanksgiving episode before the This Is Us writers went with a three-episode arc centered on each Pearson child. “We have a lot of real estate from Memphis, and we’ll find our way back there,” says Fogelman."

He reiterated that Rebecca and Miguel over time will be more "normal' for fans to see, they do love each other and showing too much now just isn't prudent. You do have to remember though Miguel missed the therapy session and only had Rebecca's version on events and seeing her distress, so watching Kevin  wasn't that strange, he might not know what his moods are now, it was only a month or so.

The death should be the next few shows but there is a week, a week from Tuesday i think that shows are preempted for Presidential address.

He always uses the words, the "fire was related to death" but not cause of but really as much as they hyped it, death is death. Does it really matter if it was a car accident or freak accident?

He also said Kate's weight gain was her stress and grief but I wonder if that was why, initially they talked a lot about weight loss, no heavy pressure, but if she is to heal from this "fake" death on TV, losing weight that she put on because of it, would seem part of therapy.  I'm sure they can work around it though. His sister Deborah Fogelman Devine helps since she had issues her whole life and they like outside opinions beyond the writers knowledge.

Edited January 21, 2018 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Jack died in the late nineties.  I know that in NJ you had to have a smoke detector on every floor way before then.  And contrary to what someone stated earlier, when the battery is dying, the thing beeps...for a long time.  It just doesn't go dead.  Ok. I'm sure people will have stories of people having multiple stories of fires starting with multiple smoke alarms in which one wasn't working.  I don't think Jack died because of the smoke alarm.  Seems to me he went back into the house for some sort of reason.  I don't think the smoke alarm had anything to do with it.  And yes, a fire can burn a house to the ground even if there are multiple smoke alarms.  Their main purpose is to warn people to get out of the dwelling and get the fire trucks there.  

But in the closing scene, didn't we see the battery dangling down, disconnected?  That's what people do to stop the incessant chirping before they can get to replace it.  That sound will drive a dog crazy, if not the human residents.  I think the dead-batteried smoke detector has some role to play, or it wouldn't have been in the episode.  Whether Jack dies as a result of not hearing an alarm is a slightly different piece of the puzzle.  We've also been shown the fuse box, about three times, so that probably plays a part as well.