S02.E11: The Fifth Wheel

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The Pearsons come together under unexpected circumstances. Meanwhile, Jack surprises the family with a summer vacation.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Whoa.  I need a drink.

[Armchair Critic]

I was ticked when Randall told Kevin his addiction was attention, he can be too self righteous sometimes. But glad the 3 had the talk afterwards.

[J0nas3]

I am not a perfect person. I can be quite irrational. And, maybe I have my own issues with the profession. But my gosh, I hated Kevin's psychologist SO MUCH. 

 

Really quickly too!

[mtlchick]

Let's get the hard part of the way: man, those therapy scenes were INTENSE.  When Rebecca finally broke down, I was completely drained from the last 5 minutes.  

We don't need hybrid names, show.  Ka-Toby?

"That I was raised by white peo--" "Everybody knows."  I laughed a lot at that line.  

"He did look like a porn star."  At last, the show admits to the thought i had since the beginning.  (Not that I mind.) But I did like that Susan,  Toby and Miguel had something in common; while they are in relationships with Pearson family members, they're not "family."  And in some ways, it sucks. 

 

More thoughts later.  I'm still trying to wrap my head about NBC mislabeling Chrissy Metz as Halle Berry at the Golden Globes.  You had ONE job, peacock! 

[emjohnson03]

Oh I think this was one of my favorite episodes of the series!!

The therapy session was amazing. I love how they all their own feelings and even though they may not be understood by the others, they were said so well!

I have to say, the end with Rebecca saying she never had to worry about Kevin. Wow. It made so much sense to me. It may come across as a little heavy handed but I don't think so because I have felt that in my own family dynamic. I'm one of 4, and I have had those same conversations with myself. Where do I fit in? How does my parents see me compared to my siblings? 

And of course Jack isn't perfect and I like that it was said. And in the end, it may be a little neat but there's lingering issues. It's not all great.

I have always enjoyed Kevin's story since they did the Big 3 episodes, and they really knocked it out of the park.

I found it so real and so honest.

Welcome back This is Us!!

[Katy M]

I don't think there was anything about this episode I didn't like.  The flashback was more Kevin being left out, but I like that it's subtle enough and doesn't make Jack and Rebecca look like jerks.  And, I loved that Rebecca got off the bed and slept on the floor with Kevin.  I wonder if he knew that happened?  If she woke up first he probably wouldn't.  

I loved the "others" in the bar.  They were a lot of fun.  

I'm of the opinion that every parent has a favorite.  That's why you should only have 2 kids:)  But, I don't know how much easier Randall could have been.  He had anxiety issues, he was pretty much total type A personality, he was practically a genius and he was a different race, and she was constantly worried about his "real" dad showing up and taking him away.

I liked the ending where Kate told Toby she'd been sneaking food.  I hope we get further into her addiction.

[SnoGirl]

Is it wrong that Im mad that they skipped the addict reveal with Kevin? Actually, I find it super ironic. We see all the details with Kate and Randall’s stories, but we’re just going to do a time jump right over Kevin’s addiction into therapy. I didnt need to see the judge sentencing him, but it would have been interesting to see Kevin admit it, and the reactions from him admitting it. I mean, are we to accept that kevin and Sophie are done? 

 

I loved the therapy scene, because they were finally being honest with each other. I hope it continues.

[Spartan Girl]

The family therapy session sure escalated quickly. Great acting from all of them.

Kevin did have a point about feeling overshadowed by Randall and Kate, but he was just awful talking to all of them like that, acting like he was the victim. My friend said it best: "I know I was supposed to feel bad for him, but all I saw was a bratty entitled white boy." So I loved it when Randall ripped in and called him out on being addicted to attention.

At least their bench truce was sweet.

Fun scene with Toby, Miguel, and Beth bonding at the bar. LOL at Toby's crack about Jack's pornstache.

[Runningwild]

I’m really growing to dislike Beth.   Randall made me pretty ticked too. I liked the psychiatrist. Pretty sad when the only one in the room who is on your side is not family. And Rebecca!  Dang! She should have been the first one to go to Kevin and she was the last. 

[Conotocarious]

One of the best episodes of the show’s run so far. Excellent from start to finish.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

I was ticked when Randall told Kevin his addiction was attention, he can be too self righteous sometimes. But glad the 3 had the talk afterwards.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I see Randall as somewhat of an attention lover, myself.  

[notcreative enough]

I'm so over bitchy Beth. We get it she doesn't like Kevin or it seems like any of Randall's family. 

So pissed that they didn't mention the drug problem. I'm assuming that Kevin kept it a secret from his therapist. But his rehab therapist has to be super bad at her job if she thinks alcohol is his only problem.

I wish this was a two part episode there was. No time between Kevin and Randall at each other's throats to enjoying a sunset together. There should have been more friction before the happily ever after. 

Glad Miguel shut Toby and Beth down with there whining about the Pierson family bond.

[Lady Calypso]

Aww, we finally got some Rebecca/Kevin scenes in the past AND present! It only took 30'ish episodes, or so. That really was a highlight for the episode. I'm glad Kevin got to express how he felt about his role in the family, but it was also nice to hear Rebecca's feelings. Their last scene was really, really strong.

Ultimately, I was expecting a little more with the therapy scene. It was really good, but not oh so awesome like the producers were hyping it up to be (also wasn't 11 minutes like they promised me! I expected it 11 episodes without interruption!). Maybe I have to rewatch it. I actually thought Randall was quite cruel with his words. Sure, he apologized at the end, but I don't think all of that is just wrapped up and that Kevin/Randall are ok. I'd like to see that hashed out more and if Randall really believes that Kevin doesn't have an addiction.

I'm disappointed that Kate barely got much to say during that scene, either. I was hoping for more with Kate, so Chrissy could get some stronger moments to act against. I mean, I don't know how awesome Chrissy is because they don't really give her the material. 

I thought the therapist did well with trying to keep the subject matter about Kevin, but I also felt overwhelmed by her at times. I like you, Kate Burton, but I'm still undecided on you as Kevin's therapist. 

I did like the New Big Three. I liked the meta-ness of them commenting about the Pearsons being about the Pearsons. I liked Beth bitching about Kevin, though I don't agree with her at all. It would be out of character for her to not resent Kevin for what happened, because she loathes him. I don't know if she'll ever like Kevin. I have a feeling she'll be adamant against Kevin stepping foot into their home and being around the girls for a while. 

I was mostly happy for Kevin/Rebecca scenes, and hoping that we actually get to see those "moments" that they've shared. I also loved the return of the Big Three bonding. They've barely shared scenes together so I'm always happy for their scenes.

Honestly, I WAS happy with the episode overall. And yes, Jack DOES look like a porn star with that mustache. 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Runningwild said:

I’m really growing to dislike Beth.   Randall made me pretty ticked too. I liked the psychiatrist. Pretty sad when the only one in the room who is on your side is not family. And Rebecca!  Dang! She should have been the first one to go to Kevin and she was the last. 

Beth has never been a big fan of Kevin and he could have conceivably gotten her daughter killed.  So, it doesn't really bug me that much that she's not on his side, right now.  And, Rebecca didn't know where to find Kevin. I'm not sure if that's because she doesn't know him and didn't know where to look, or if she knew him well enough to give him  a little time, or if Kate and Randall were just lucky in stumbling into him.  But, since REbecca went straight to his room to wait for him, it wasn't as if she was trying to avoid him, or not go to him.

[ByaNose]

Every episode I think I’m not gonna get sucked in and I do. I just can’t love this show anymore then I already do. They hit all the right notes. The therapy session, the bar & the usual flashback. And, it was interesting to get Rebecca’s reason for loving Randall “the most”. Apparently, he stayed and the others moved on to pursue their lives and/or get away from Rebecca and the pain of losing Jack. Seriously! How good is this show????

[chocolatine]

So now we know that it takes one Ellis Grey to finally dismantle that "Saint Jack" BS. I loved the therapy scene, especially Kevin's part. If last season was about Randall, this season is about Kevin.

I could have done without the Beth/Toby/Miguel scenes and don't understand why Miguel and Beth had to fly across the country for this.

I'm of the - potentially unpopular - opinion that Rebecca was too lenient with kid Kevin. If I had thrown a ball at my brother and spoken that way to my mother, there would have been dire consequences. It almost seemed like Kevin was acting out deliberately to get Rebecca's attention, and then felt like Rebecca didn't even care enough to punish him properly.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Kevin did have a point about feeling overshadowed by Randall and Kate, but he was just awful talking to all of them like that, acting like he was the victim. My friend said it best: "I know I was supposed to feel bad for him, but all I saw was a bratty entitled white boy." So I loved it when Randall ripped in and called him out on being addicted to attention.

I guess, to look at it from another side, this therapy session WAS supposed to be about Kevin. He was sharing his perspective, after all. And from his perspective, he felt overshadowed by Randall and Kate. This was a therapy session done in rehab, after all. This wasn't a normal family therapy session. Randall had every right to voice his own opinions, but this was ultimately letting Kevin vent his own feelings. Plus, it jump started a lot of raw feelings, which was great.

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Beth has never been a big fan of Kevin and he could have conceivably gotten her daughter killed.  So, it doesn't really bug me that much that she's not on his side, right now.  And, Rebecca didn't know where to find Kevin. I'm not sure if that's because she doesn't know him and didn't know where to look, or if she knew him well enough to give him  a little time, or if Kate and Randall were just lucky in stumbling into him.  But, since REbecca went straight to his room to wait for him, it wasn't as if she was trying to avoid him, or not go to him.

I also don't mind that Beth isn't on Kevin's side because she's always loathed Kevin. I may not like her attitude, but I understand it. Kevin's also always treated Randall pretty terribly until recently, so it'll take more time, if ever, to get Beth to soften on Kevin. I just wonder what it'll take for Beth to allow Kevin to visit in the future. It's going to take a whole lot for Beth to allow Randall to let Kevin see Tess and Annie. And I think that moment is going to both piss me off and understand where she's coming from.

[debraran]

I don't think Rebecca should have said Kevin left her unless it was right after, he did have a life to live. That also didn't negate the behavior he felt before. I know I have 3 kids, twins too, and they see and remember things differently than I do and so do my 2 sisters and brother. It's funny how we all interpret things but I learned instead of arguing that we validate the others memory and talk it out, not try to change their perception. Sometimes we are so in our world, we can't see through their eyes.

I hope they get into Jack feeding Kate's issues later, that is never good, the constant, good cop/bad cop with kids. Sure you can be the good guy once in a while, I cherish those days with my dad, but always, sets up many issues.

Kate and Toby seemed bigger to me in this episode than last, I know Toby is wearing something but Kate's face had looked thinner. I wonder if that was to set up the relapse.  I look forward to next week and seeing more Miguel. (but not red haired girl yet!)

Edited January 10, 2018 by debraran

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

Glad Miguel shut Toby and Beth down with there whining about the Pierson family bond.

I don't think Beth really has that much reason to whine about the Pearson bond, because I don't feel like Randall leaves her out of stuff.  they have a healthy marriage.  Toby's another story.  This may have changed recently, but Kate has been known to confide in Kevin before Toby and put Kevin first.  I thought Miguel's excuse was flimsy.  My parents are still alive.  I will be devastated if they die.  Not when.  If.  But, they were 17. They weren't little little kids.  And it's been 20 years.  They shouldn't have lifelong trauma from this.  I'm not saying they shouldn't still miss him.  I'm just saying they shouldn't be paralyzed by it.

[SnoGirl]

4 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

I'm so over bitchy Beth. We get it she doesn't like Kevin or it seems like any of Randall's family. 

So pissed that they didn't mention the drug problem. I'm assuming that Kevin kept it a secret from his therapist. But his rehab therapist has to be super bad at her job if she thinks alcohol is his only problem.

I wish this was a two part episode there was. No time between Kevin and Randall at each other's throats to enjoying a sunset together. There should have been more friction before the happily ever after. 

Glad Miguel shut Toby and Beth down with there whining about the Pierson family bond.

Gah! You’re right! They never mentioned Kevin’s drug problem. Oh man. Do you think that was a mistake? Or do you think they know he was addicting to drugs? I wonder if that means his addiction is going to rear its ugly head at the end of the season.

[Runningwild]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Beth has never been a big fan of Kevin and he could have conceivably gotten her daughter killed.  So, it doesn't really bug me that much that she's not on his side, right now.  And, Rebecca didn't know where to find Kevin. I'm not sure if that's because she doesn't know him and didn't know where to look, or if she knew him well enough to give him  a little time, or if Kate and Randall were just lucky in stumbling into him.  But, since REbecca went straight to his room to wait for him, it wasn't as if she was trying to avoid him, or not go to him.

Beth hates Kevin. As for Tess? That’s just bull crap where nothing is her daughter’s fault and she blames the guy who didn’t even know she was in the car!  Once he knew he slowed down and told her to put on her seatbelt. 

 

And the the other two found Kevin. Why wasn’t she with them? We don’t know she went RIGHT to his room. She just ended up there. 

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Every episode I think I’m not gonna get sucked in and I do. I just can’t love this show anymore then I already do. They hit all the right notes. The therapy session, the bar & the usual flashback. And, it was interesting to get Rebecca’s reason for loving Randall “the most”. Apparently, he stayed and the others moved on to pursue their lives and/or get away from Rebecca and the pain of losing Jack. Seriously! How good is this show????

We've seen that she favored him way before Jack's death, though.

[BuckeyeLou]

Oh My!  Sobbing while watching Kevin come into the bedroom & see his siblings in bed with the parents and he is left to sleep on the floor by himself and then Rebecca comes down to sleep next to him.  Rebecca crying that she did not have a favorite child broke my heart, but she did identify with him more(the scene of the 2 of them reading side by side).  The 3 "Outsiders" were making me chuckle with their comments at the bar, especially when Miguel said what a wonderful guy Jack was and Toby asks "How Drunk Is He?!"  And the "No Fly Zone" comments, certain things Can Not be said!   Kate, finally, admitting to Toby that she is sneaking food(she & Kevin both have their addictions).  The whole episode was so well done & so emotional from start to finish.

[Katy M]

Just now, Runningwild said:

Beth hates Kevin. As for Tess? That’s just bull crap where nothing is her daughter’s fault and she blames the guy who didn’t even know she was in the car!  Once he knew he slowed down and told her to put on her seatbelt. 

Nope.  It doesn't matter that he didn't know Tess was in the car.  He was drunk and apparently driving recklessly enough to cause Tess to jump up from the back seat and tell him to slow down.  If he didn't know he was endangering her, he sure as heck should have known he was endangering everyone else on the road.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for drunk drivers.

[bettername2come]

That was really good. I enjoyed The Others together. Love the irony of day drinking at rehab. And how Miguel stuck up for Jack when Beth, who didn't know him, crossed a line.

I like that we got a real scene between Kevin and Rebecca. I liked Kevin admitting he didn't have an unhappy childhood. I'm always happy to get a Big Three scene and them leaning on Kate's shoulders was adorable. Mandy Moore did great with the "He was easier!" breakdown. It seemed very different from previous breakdowns I've seen from her. One of those moments where I felt she really did well playing thirty years older.

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And, Rebecca didn't know where to find Kevin. I'm not sure if that's because she doesn't know him and didn't know where to look, or if she knew him well enough to give him  a little time, or if Kate and Randall were just lucky in stumbling into him. 

I didn't think anything of it while watching, but I think it's very telling that Kate finds him first, closely followed by Randall. They found him in order of bond, I think.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, that escalated quickly. Things went quickly from "polite apologies" to "Kevin says things that are harsh but totally true and then everyone yells at him". See guys? THIS IS LITERALLY THE PROBLEM! Kevin might be an asshole a lot of the times, but everything he said was totally true (and he wasn't even saying anything rude or cruel), and Randall just jumped right into "Yeah your a privileged white guy so SHTFU your issues dont count" which is kind of a big part of his issue in his family. Jack and Rebecca thought he was the kid who had the most going for him, so they bonded with the other kids. Yeah Kevin did have a lot of privileges growing up, but that doesn't mean his problems dont deserve discussing, especially when they almost literally killed him. 

The "new Big Three" hanging out and bonding was nice, even though it continues to make me kind of "eh" on Beth. I like a lot of things about her, but her constant disdain for Randall's family is pretty unappealing. Granted, the Pearson's clearly have trouble letting people into the inner circle, and I still like her (everyone on this show has flaws and that why I like it) but it just seems to be kicking Kevin while hes down at this point. I mean, I can kind of get her not liking Kevin, as he and Randall have a complicated relationship, but she doesn't seem too fond of any of his relatives, even Rebecca, who he is super close with. 

Not a fan of the time jump. I wanted to see the family actually deal with the fact that Kevin was an addict who was clearly falling to pieces, and see their reactions, not what they have come around to later. I mean, did they even mention his drug problem? Because thats not something you really tend to fake for attention, Randall. 

I do love whenever all three grown Pearson kids share a scene, and I loved when everyone apologized and basically hugged it out. I dont think its the end of their problems, but at least its a start to fixing them. Also, I think my favorite part of the confrontation was when Kevin asked Randall why Tess was in the car. I literally said "Oh DAMN" out loud. 

If this show has any "lesson" its that even good parents with the best of intentions can mess things up with their kids. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by tennisgurl

[gibasi]

I have been to one of those meetings with the therapist and family and yhe person who is in Rehab. And it is all about the patient and his/her perceptions.  Idon’t remember getting a chance to tell the other side of the story because as far as the therapist was concerned it was irrelevant. 

[ByaNose]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

We've seen that she favored him way before Jack's death, though.

Totally.

[BuckeyeLou]

Other thoughts, I loved the scene of the 3 siblings on the park bench and talking about being their for each other.  No matter how much siblings might fight, in the end families stick together.  And Loved Randall's analogy with his glasses, everyone has a different perspective on their childhood,  you grow up in the same home with the same parents, but see things totally differently.  

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Other thoughts, I loved the scene of the 3 siblings on the park bench and talking about being their for each other.  No matter how much siblings might fight, in the end families stick together.  And Loved Randall's analogy with his glasses, everyone has a different perspective on their childhood,  you grow up in the same home with the same parents, but see things totally differently.  

And, I think it also can change to as you look at it from different perspectives.  When we were kids, my sister always got her own way.  So, I grew up thinking my mom loved her more.  But, then observing us as adults and looking back at things with a fresh eye, I kind of think my mom liked me better and was overcompensating.  Then, I decided to ask my mom why just to see what she said, and she said it was because I was more easygoing and my sister would pitch a fit.  So, apparently I was wrong both ways.

[Runningwild]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Nope.  It doesn't matter that he didn't know Tess was in the car.  He was drunk and apparently driving recklessly enough to cause Tess to jump up from the back seat and tell him to slow down.  If he didn't know he was endangering her, he sure as heck should have known he was endangering everyone else on the road.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for drunk drivers.

Nope. Beth is mad that Kevin endangered her daughter who RAN AWAY. I don’t have sympathy for drunk drivers and yes he was endangering others. But she was mad about Tess. Nope, nope. Sorry. It’s not Kevin’s fault she was in the car. And keeping Kevin from seeing them would be so wrong. You can certainly supervise them all but then Randall and Beth would have to actually pay attention to Kevin and their children. And Beth doesn’t seem to like Randall’s family at all. 

[ShadowFacts]

I liked Rebecca's honesty in the therapy session.  I would have liked to have heard a little more from Kate but in the end it's about Kevin.  I didn't hate the Toberman, was mildly put off by Beth, and liked Miguel quite a bit, until his clunky line about Jack being the best man they'd ever know.  That was too saccharine for my taste. 

[Dreamboat Annie]

I get that what Kevin did was wrong because drinking and driving is never right.  But the visit was about healing, and anyone not on board with Kevin's healing and/or anyone who felt they couldn't be supportive of Kevin had no business being there.  So there was no need for Randall and Beth to get a sitter.  Beth should not have gone.  Her behavior when asked to leave was self serving and immature. 

Is it just me, or was there a kind of major contradiction from Rebecca?  I loved her tonight by the way.  But at the meeting, she basically said she gravitated more toward Randall because he was easier.  Yet later, it was shown that Kevin was obviously easier, meaning she didn't think she had to worry as much about him.  She admitted she was wrong about that, but that doesn't change the fact that back then, Kevin was obviously easier.  Why didn't she just say that since Kevin was easier, she felt that Randall needed her more, rather than say Randall was easier? 

[WhosThatGirl]

That was rough.  Also.. I’m sort of glad nothing was really resolved. 

Also yeah.. Rebecca didn’t have a favorite child but she did react to Randall and Kate more. She always worried what Kate ate and she always worried about Randall’s life and his glasses and making him feel included because he was adopted. And was it because like she said Kevin was so easy going and able to adapt? Maybe.

But also yeah.. I find it interesting that Kevin is the only one who as an adult who can see that their father had a problem and Kevin is truthfully the only who saw Jack that way. He saw jack on the phone with his sponsor and doing his prayer. Randall never saw that and Kate seems to refuse that Jack even had a problem. 

[DearEvette]

Great episode.  The therapy scenes were intense and very well acted. 

I loved the looks on Rebecca's face when the therapist started talking about Jack.  Mandy Moore gave an excellent 'Bitch don't start it....' lemon face.  And then when she defended him she finished with a polite 'thank you.'

I don't care that Beth doesn't like Kevin.  Doesn't make her a bitch in my book just makes her the wife of the guy that Kevin tormented when they were kids.  I know the show is making a big effort to give Kevin's issues context, but doesn't mitigate the fact he was a total asshole to Randall every chance he got.  He did not take any of it out on Kate.  It was always directed toward Randall who tried over and over again to hold out an olive branch.  An IRL Kevin would strike me as someone who is exhausting to be around.  Fuck Kevin and his DUI ass. If he were my bro-in-law I'd probably hate him too.

But I do admit I liked the final scene with the siblings.

I liked the 'shadow therapy session' at the bar with Beth, Miguel and Toby.

[Conotocarious]

I think she meant it was easier to bond with the child who didn’t push her away and act all surly with her. Not that Randall was easy to raise with his many facets but that he was just easy for her to bond with.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Dreamboat Annie said:

Is it just me, or was there a kind of major contradiction from Rebecca?  I loved her tonight by the way.  But at the meeting, she basically said she gravitated more toward Randall because he was easier.  Yet later, it was shown that Kevin was obviously easier, meaning she didn't think she had to worry as much about him.  She admitted she was wrong about that, but that doesn't change the fact that back then, Kevin was obviously easier.  Why didn't she just say that since Kevin was easier, she felt that Randall needed her more, rather than say Randall was easier? 

I think what Rebecca meant was less about it being easier to take care of Kevin, but it was easier to love Randall. Sure, Kevin was confident and independent so he didn't need her like Randall did. But maybe Rebecca was feeling more like Randall was easier because he was open to her and she found more in common with Randall. Which is still a harsh thing to say, that it was easier to love Randall more. 

However, I do think some of the things said in therapy didn't quite match up. I think Rebecca, in particular, was only mentioning things about Kevin as a teenager onward, but how about kid Kevin? How was it harder to love kid Kevin? I guess because Kevin wasn't as touchy-feely or didn't feel the need to bond emotionally like Randall or Kate did with their parents. 

[Neurochick]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Nope.  It doesn't matter that he didn't know Tess was in the car.  He was drunk and apparently driving recklessly enough to cause Tess to jump up from the back seat and tell him to slow down.  If he didn't know he was endangering her, he sure as heck should have known he was endangering everyone else on the road.  I have no sympathy whatsoever for drunk drivers.

Amen to that.  Kevin was driving drunk, he could have killed himself or an innocent person.  I don’t blame Beth for not being a fan of his.  I’m getting sick of Kevin’s poor me act too.

[notcreative enough]

What messed up family goes on vacation without one of there kids. When Jack was saying that Kevin's camp was close by I thought they were picking him up right away not five days later. There is no child on the planet that wouldn't feel unwanted and unloved if that happened to them. How Jack and Rebecca didn't think something like that was a little off is strange. And glossing over it by saying Kevin was at camp isn't a good reason. 

Is this the same cabin from last year. I thought they owned that cabin? Jack said a friend from work let them have it for the week. Did they buy it from him later on.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

I guess because Kevin wasn't as touchy-feely or didn't feel the need to bond emotionally like Randall or Kate did with their parents. 

I don't even know if that's true.  If he didn't want to bond emotionally, he wouldn't have felt so left out.  He wouldn't have cared that he wasn't getting any one on one time.  He would have been OK with just the group time he was getting.

[Neurochick]

I don’t get the Beth hate, just because she’s not over the moon when  it comes to screwed up Kevin.  Yes, we all know how hard it is to be an attractive, wealthy white male in America.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Neurochick

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, notcreative enough said:

What messed up family goes on vacation without one of there kids. When Jack was saying that Kevin's camp was close by I thought they were picking him up right away not five days later. There is no child on the planet that wouldn't feel unwanted and unloved if that happened to them. How Jack and Rebecca didn't think something like that was a little off is strange. And glossing over it by saying Kevin was at camp isn't a good reason. 

I don't think it makes sense for the rest of the family to have to miss out on a week of last minute vacation just because Kevin wasn't available until the following week.  If they had planned it from the beginning of summer and not worked it around Kevin's schedule that would have been one thing. But, Jack just jumped on a last minute available cabin.  It was then, or not at all.

[chaifan]

I was really hoping Miguel would have also strayed from the "perfect Jack" pitch.  I was disappointed that he was all Jack was the best guy in the world.  I did like the Miguel, Toby & Beth bonding in the bar, though.  I didn't expect Miguel to jump on Beth's anti-Jack wave, but it would have been nice for him to say something like, Jack wasn't perfect, but he was a really good dad so you've got to give him that. 

Also, other than Jack dying, these three seemed to have a pretty typical childhood.  No family with more than 1 kid ever gets through life without a "you loved him more" phase. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, notcreative enough said:

What messed up family goes on vacation without one of there kids. When Jack was saying that Kevin's camp was close by I thought they were picking him up right away not five days later. There is no child on the planet that wouldn't feel unwanted and unloved if that happened to them. How Jack and Rebecca didn't think something like that was a little off is strange. And glossing over it by saying Kevin was at camp isn't a good reason. 

Is this the same cabin from last year. I thought they owned that cabin? Jack said a friend from work let them have it for the week. Did they buy it from him later on.

I thought that they were going to wait until Friday, have all of them drive up to the cabin to unpack and then have Jack go back to pick up Kevin. It disappointed me that they were there for days before Kevin. But oh yeah, they're still going to stay there until next week, so it's alright. Or....since it's clearly summer, they could have waited a few extra days before going up to the cabin? But I also think this was just another subtle tick with Kevin being left out. It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it also could have added to Kevin feeling left out. I mean, he's still a kid at this point. 

I guess this is around the time Jack decided to buy the cabin off of his friend. I guess we'll see that flashback at some point. 

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't even know if that's true.  If he didn't want to bond emotionally, he wouldn't have felt so left out.  He wouldn't have cared that he wasn't getting any one on one time.  He would have been OK with just the group time he was getting.

I do agree with this. I was just trying to figure out why Rebecca felt like it was so hard to bond with Kevin, but also why Kevin seemed to react negatively toward his family in general. He obviously wanted the attention that he never felt like he got (I took his outburst at throwing the football at Randall as a result of Jack chasing after Kate, which is a wrong reaction, but a kid reaction), but it was interesting to see how he went about things. 

[Kohola3]

Holy crap, I was transported back to the Smothers Brothers where Tommy would always whine "mom always liked you best".  Geez, get over it already.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I was really hoping Miguel would have also strayed from the "perfect Jack" pitch.  I was disappointed that he was all Jack was the best guy in the world.  I did like the Miguel, Toby & Beth bonding in the bar, though.  I didn't expect Miguel to jump on Beth's anti-Jack wave, but it would have been nice for him to say something like, Jack wasn't perfect, but he was a really good dad so you've got to give him that. 

I actually think I get why Miguel keeps overcompensating with the Saint Jack ideal: like he mentioned in the bar, he's the guy who married his best friend's wife. It could very well be that Miguel feels guilt over it, he might feel like he's disrespecting Jack, even if it did happen years after Jack's death, and that keeping Jack's perfect memory alive makes him feel better. 

Though it still annoys me all the same. 

[Runningwild]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don’t get the Beth hate, just because she’s not over the moo. When it comes to screwed up Kevin.  Yes, we all know how hard it is to be an attractive, wealthy white male in America.

And I think that’s really why she hates him.  

[Miss Dee]

I thought my heart would break when young Kevin saw his family all together in the bed and he slept on the floor next to them. That's it, I thought, that's the moment that'll break me.

And then Rebecca got out of bed to lie down next to him, and I was finished. Utterly finished.

[Runningwild]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it makes sense for the rest of the family to have to miss out on a week of last minute vacation just because Kevin wasn't available until the following week.  If they had planned it from the beginning of summer and not worked it around Kevin's schedule that would have been one thing. But, Jack just jumped on a last minute available cabin.  It was then, or not at all.

You think that would matter to a 10 yr. old?  Let’s not forget Rebecca didn’t look at his trophies, didn’t watch him throw the football, AND throwing the football (Kevin’s thing) was really about Kate. So when Kate quit, Jack quit. It wasn’t about spending time with Kevin. Again. And let’s not forget the pool where they weren’t watching the kid who can’t swim. Kevin was definitely neglected more than the other two.