S35.E13: The Survivor Devil

[green]

2 hours ago, MissEwa said:

So, I don't see why Devon couldn't have written Ben down anyway, just to keep his hands clean. He knows it's not going to count, and Ben knows it's not going to count, so all he has to say back at camp is that he knew Ashley was going anyway but had promised her he wouldn't write her name down. 

 

But we saw Devon cutting a final three deal with Chrissy and Ryan.  If he doesn't vote with them at tribal he is sending a signal that they can't trust him and he is out next with Mike or even Ben taking his place in their final three group.

2 hours ago, violet and green said:

Yes, but at every other tribal when she didn't have the immunity (aka those two times she had it) why is she not a major target? Her name comes up, my hopes get raised - but there she sits, smug and ingratiating and safe again.

I find it funny that people are barracking for her because she's a woman, and go women! - when it is clear she is a man's woman, and boy is she in for a treat when she reaches the 'invisible years'!

What the hell is wrong with a woman who may prefer the company of male colleagues over female ones?  Do we live in a country where females are forced into seclusion and are only "allowed" to talk with their gender?  We had this discussion before here.  What if a female's female friends aren't into sports or gaming or tech stuff and she is?  Should she give up her life's passions to go sit in some freaking boring sewing circle?  God I certainly hope not.

And I take it "the invisible years" is in reference to men not noticing a woman's body anymore.  Not her mind.  Chrissy is not flirting.  Nor are other women who like to "hang" with guys because they have shared interests.  Oranges and apples.

Edited December 15, 2017 by green

[violet and green]

19 minutes ago, green said:

What the hell is wrong with a woman who may prefer the company of male colleagues over female ones?  Do we live in a country where females are forced into seclusion and are only "allowed" to talk with their gender?  We had this discussion before here.  What if a female's female friends aren't into sports or gaming or tech stuff and she is?  Should she give up her life's passions to go sit in some freaking boring sewing circle?  God I certainly hope not.

And I take it "the invisible years" is in reference to men not noticing a woman's body anymore.  Not her mind.  Chrissy is not flirting.  Nor are other women who like to "hang" with guys because they have shared interests.  Oranges and apples.

I'm not sure why my comment made you so angry. A "man's woman" is a clear type. Used to be one myself. Too old and exhausted to explain its actual meaning. The "invisible years" are a rite of passage that cannot be explained, only experienced, much like the secrets of the Knights Templar.

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, green said:

But we saw Devon cutting a final three deal with Chrissy and Ryan.  If he doesn't vote with them at tribal he is sending a signal that they can't trust him and he is out next with Mike or even Ben taking his place in their final three group.

Oh, it's not a perfect plan, but as a throwaway vote it's still an option. And given Ben isn't part of this new alliance, and Chrissy actively hates him, it's a lot easier to brush off than say, voting for Ryan or even Mike, which were his other options. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by MissEwa

[ImpinAintEasy]

This season has provided great characters, but not necessarily great players. I could see 6 or 7 from this cast returning for future seasons. People seem to hate it because there are more villains than heroes. Though I think this site is more negative than others. 

 

I’m not rooting for Ben, but he deserves to win if he makes the FTC. For the sake of suspense, I hope he doesn’t make it. Right now, I actually think it will be a Devon,Chrissy, and Ryan FTC. My wild prediction is Devon and Chrissy tie and Ryan casts the deciding vote for Chrissy. 

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I don't know if I'm missing something but... Ben?

 

6 hours ago, green said:

But we saw Devon cutting a final three deal with Chrissy and Ryan.  If he doesn't vote with them at tribal he is sending a signal that they can't trust him and he is out next with Mike or even Ben taking his place in their final three group.

Yep, it all comes down to trust.

@MissEwa - look at the situation: Chrissy is wearing the immunity necklace and Ben has played his idol, so there are only four possibilities for eviction - Ashley, Devon, Mike, or Ryan.  Now, pretend you are Devon.  Ae you SOOO certain of your safety in the upcoming vote that you're ready to cast a useless throwaway vote for Ben - and for what purpose?  How are you going to feel if you end up evicted - especially if it's by a one vote margin?  Seems like an awful high price to pay for a fit of pique - but hey, maybe that's just me.  :)

 

5 hours ago, violet and green said:

I'm not sure why my comment made you so angry. A "man's woman" is a clear type. Used to be one myself. Too old and exhausted to explain its actual meaning.

@violet and green: I suspect I know what you mean by this - in fact, I think I helped raise my oldest daughter to be one such - but I do find it very interesting that even in this forum, the mere mention of the existence of such a type is sufficient to raise hackles.  Think maybe similar reactions might explain some of the descriptions we've seen/heard of Chrissy?  :)

[ProfCrash]

6 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

This season has provided great characters, but not necessarily great players. I could see 6 or 7 from this cast returning for future seasons. People seem to hate it because there are more villains than heroes. Though I think this site is more negative than others. 

I don't see Chrissy and Ben as villains, I see them as awful social players. They have not attacked anyone. They have not destroyed property. They have not destroyed or hidden things from the camp. They have not bullied or harassed anyone. So I don't see them as villains. I don't understand the comparisons to Russell or Dan or Will or any of the truly horrific human beings who have played this game. Shit social game and an annoying personality does not equate with asshole bully.

[ProfCrash]

From one of Ashley's exit interviews

"I want to get a few more takes from you on the people you played against, starting with Chrissy. You were both on Heroes together. There are a lot of different takes on Chrissy from the people who have come off of the show. What's yours?

Everyone's take is so interesting to me. Maybe it's me being naive, but I've heard so many negative things about her as a person, but I thoroughly enjoy her. We got along great. After Katrina was gone from the Heroes tribe, Chrissy was the only other female on the tribe. She was like the mom. We had fun. I really like her as a person. We laugh about it now. Why didn't we play together? I don't know. After the merge, she had Ryan and I had Devon, and it never worked. But as a person, I thought she was playing a great game, and I was naive to the fact that other people didn't like her. In my head, I was thinking if she gets to the end, she's going to win. I kept thinking that Chrissy was the best! She did well in challenges! I thought she was cool. I just got a Christmas card from her yesterday, ironically enough. This crazy game. I got a text from her yesterday: "Hey, I know tonight's the night I vote you out. Hope you're good." As I'm opening up her Christmas card! I have no hard feelings about anyone, though. That's just how I am, I guess."

So either Ashley was totally unaware of what was happening around camp or the Chrissy hate was far less obvious at camp. Perhaps, the Chrissy hate is more of an aftermath from the editing on the show. Who knows, but Ashley seems to have a very different take then most of the others.

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't see Chrissy and Ben as villains, I see them as awful social players. They have not attacked anyone. They have not destroyed property. They have not destroyed or hidden things from the camp. They have not bullied or harassed anyone. So I don't see them as villains.

I think of a villain as someone who's ruthless at the game in the service of making good game moves, not as someone who bullies or harasses or is just generally a shitheel. To me, a villain is a Hatch, Heidik, Boston Rob, Parvati, Kim, or Sandra. People who destroy property or bully are not villains to me; they're just assholes. Dan, Will, Naonka, Colton, Alicia, Abi-Marie, Rocky, Bounty and Bench, for example.

But I don't think of Chrissy and Ben as villains either because they're not good at the game. They're just not competent enough for the villain label. They're still in it because everyone this season is terrible, playing without logic and without any apparent social graces. Chrissy and Ben have made moves, but they've mostly been dopey, premature, or ham-handed. I don't look at this final five and think, "yes! These are the best players! They deserve to be there!" You could replace them all with Joe, JP, Alan, Roark, and Jessica and I would think that was an equally deserving group in this dismal season.

Edited December 15, 2017 by fishcakes

[Guest]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:18 AM, mojoween said:

Almost an entire episode of following Ben  around looking for an Idol and wondering WILL HE FIND IT?!? is a terrible episode of Survivor.

I didn't wonder if Ben would find it.  As soon as they showed him looking the first time, I knew he would.  They very, very rarely ever show someone looking for an idol and NOT find it.  I hate that they spoil it like that.  But I guess it beats seeing footage of fruitless idol searches each ep.  

19 hours ago, laurakaye said:

This drives me nuts as well, but I have to wonder if it's something wonky with the editing.  I get that there's only so much time in an episode, but at least show us short clips of others looking and failing to find the idol - otherwise the logical conclusion is the bolded line above...viewers assume no one else is even looking.  

Well, there was a confessional from Mike where he said he scoured that island for the idol, I think he even said he spent hours, and that's why they weren't following Ben around... they were convinced there was not one out there. 

I think based on all the interviews over the years that they all spend a lot of time searching for idols.  There's not much else to do.  

[blackwing]

They might have spent hours looking and been convinced there wasn't one, but after seeing/hearing how Ben made a fake idol that he wanted to embarrass Chrissy with... why would they even leave him alone for any amount of time?  They should have taken turns following him around.  No rule against that. Ben, need to pee?  Go behind the tree.  Need to take a dump?  Go in the ocean like everyone else.

I'm not a fan of Chrissy but I do think she has played well.  She doesn't have the best social skills but apparently people like Ashley still liked her, despite seemingly barely talking on the show.  Chrissy always seems to need to be in control.  At the beginning of this episode she was constantly talking over everyone to make sure everyone knew that Ben had to go next.  She just never sits back and lets others talk.

[ProfCrash]

I think it is easy to say "Why did you leave him alone?" from home, god knows I say it and post it, but the reality is that these folks are sleep deprived, food deprived, and generally cranky and exhausted. Ben got up before anyone else did and went looking for the idol. Short of having someone stay up in shifts, there is no stopping that. People slip up and I am sure that there are always opportunities to slip off. (shrugs) Ashley says that she followed him about a bit. I am sure others did as well but they did not follow him 24/7.

[peachmangosteen]

23 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Still not seeing Chrissy as a strategic genius. She targeted Ashley saying that Ashley targeted her first, but all Ashley did was point out that Chrissy was the one who decided Ryan would be the third person at the reward, which was true, obvious to everyone, and a big so what. She said Ashley and Ben were "the same" to her in terms of who to vote out, so that shows that her decisions are based on who she doesn't like and/or is currently mad at and not for game reasons. Ben is a threat to win, but she wants him gone because he lied to her. Ashley is not a threat to win, but she wants her gone because Ashley, hmmm, what could be the reason? Whattttt could it be? Welp, it's a mystery I guess.

I love this because it's super accurate and super hilarious.

22 hours ago, Irishsecra said:

I am probably in the minority but I think mike has a great shot at winning. He is well liked by everyone, has betrayed no one, and is the last surviving healer. He has really never had a true alliance since the merge. No one can claim he was dragged along by a partner as he had no partner . He had to survive by his wits, the chaos he caused 2 tribal councils ago is still paying dividends.

Multiple people have already touched on this, but I'll agree with them and say that this may be true, but the editing isn't showing it that way at all. Mike is being portrayed as a doofus, which doesn't suggest he wins. Normally the doofus doesn't win. Although it did happen with Fabio, so it is possible. I just don't think it's likely. 

16 hours ago, MissEwa said:

If playing an idol pre-votes means people aren't allowed to vote for you, that's a fundamental shift in its powers, IMO, and I'm curious to see if this is going to have unforeseen repercussions in future seasons. 

Probst said they could still vote for Ben.

15 hours ago, violet and green said:

Yes, but at every other tribal when she didn't have the immunity (aka those two times she had it) why is she not a major target? Her name comes up, my hopes get raised - but there she sits, smug and ingratiating and safe again.

I think it's possible the others just don't see her as much of a threat. They might be picking up on some of the hate many of the booted players had for her and believe she can't win because of it. 

[himela]

I'm wondering what went wrong with the players of this season. I mean, we didn't have some racist person or someone like Dan who treated women badly. All people were more or less likeable or at least normal.

From my point of view this was a season where most women were really cool and I loved them (Roark, Desi, Ali, even Ashley was ok) but we didn't get to see much from them. This is a reason I don't like Chrissy, because in my eyes she was the reason these women were booted. Other than that I did like a couple of men but I mostly disliked them (I liked Joe and Devon, I disliked Ryan, Ben, Cole, JP). So the combination of these two factors (likeable women leaving early, unlikeable men staying till the end) made this season unbearable for me. I don't even think I'll ever rewatch, just like I didn't with worlds apart (extra reason for not rewatching worlds apart was Mike's voice).

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, himela said:

So the combination of these two factors (likeable women leaving early, unlikeable men staying till the end) made this season unbearable for me.

This is how most seasons go for me since I rarely like the male players, my faves are always women, and women tend to go first.

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

They might have spent hours looking and been convinced there wasn't one, but after seeing/hearing how Ben made a fake idol that he wanted to embarrass Chrissy with... why would they even leave him alone for any amount of time?  They should have taken turns following him around.  No rule against that. Ben, need to pee?  Go behind the tree.  Need to take a dump?  Go in the ocean like everyone else.

I'm not a fan of Chrissy but I do think she has played well.  She doesn't have the best social skills but apparently people like Ashley still liked her, despite seemingly barely talking on the show.  Chrissy always seems to need to be in control.  At the beginning of this episode she was constantly talking over everyone to make sure everyone knew that Ben had to go next.  She just never sits back and lets others talk.

that's what i never got. why weren't they on him lke white on rice.?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Because what does it matter?  They're with him when he finds the idol, so what?  I am not sure I'm getting the huge benefit of following Ben around.   If people followed me around I'd still look for the idol , grab it, and keep it.  So?

[Ms Blue Jay]

21 hours ago, green said:

What the hell is wrong with a woman who may prefer the company of male colleagues over female ones?  Do we live in a country where females are forced into seclusion and are only "allowed" to talk with their gender?  We had this discussion before here.  What if a female's female friends aren't into sports or gaming or tech stuff and she is?  Should she give up her life's passions to go sit in some freaking boring sewing circle?  God I certainly hope not.

And I take it "the invisible years" is in reference to men not noticing a woman's body anymore.  Not her mind.  Chrissy is not flirting.  Nor are other women who like to "hang" with guys because they have shared interests.  Oranges and apples.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that.  I am like @violet and green.   I used to be a man's woman when I was much younger, and ever since college I consider myself a woman's woman.  And, I'm crazy about baseball but not so good at cooking and terrible at sewing.  I never considered the activities remotely relevant to whether you consider yourself a man's woman or a woman's woman.  Also, it's all relative right?  I work with a bunch of women now and they see me as SUCH a tomboy who befriends men easily because I have a few male friends at work and I was raised with brothers and like sports, I guess.  But I never saw myself that way until I tried to see it through their eyes.  

I think the comments about Chrissy are about the perception of her as voting other women out.  It has nothing to do with sewing.  The editing shows her focusing on Ashley and I admitted I had the same thought.  (Chrissy orchestrated voting out... what was her name, Kat?   Then Roark.  Now Ashley.)  I mean that's 3 women off the top of my head.  For someone like me who has zero memory of this game (said in Spencer's voice), for me to remember it, that's a bit crazy.  I had the thought, what, does Chrissy want to be the only woman left standing?  Why are other women targeted by her?  Why are other women her enemy?  I mean of all the people on the island she chose to be allies/friends with RYAN.  Not everyone would make that same choice, secret advantage handed to them by him or not.

I also agree with the invisible years comment.  Chrissy has very shiny teeth, she's blonde, she's super skinny, and she has implants.  Maybe she's used to straight men reacting well to that.  I've been the type of woman straight men react well to, and I've been the invisible woman.  I don't think it's outlandish to assume Chrissy has never had that experience yet with that figure.  (Again, I don't think flirting or how you act is at all relevant to this, personally.  In my experience.)

I mean the fact that some people find Ashley remotely attractive just reiterates to me what I already think, that blonde hair and a skinny figure go a looooooooooooong way for some people.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I think it is easy to say "Why did you leave him alone?" from home, god knows I say it and post it, but the reality is that these folks are sleep deprived, food deprived, and generally cranky and exhausted. Ben got up before anyone else did and went looking for the idol. Short of having someone stay up in shifts, there is no stopping that. People slip up and I am sure that there are always opportunities to slip off. (shrugs) Ashley says that she followed him about a bit. I am sure others did as well but they did not follow him 24/7.

Who know if it's even possible to follow someone 24/7.  They go off for confessionals alone every day, maybe they can slip off into the jungle all they want on the way back?  

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I love this because it's super accurate and super hilarious.

Multiple people have already touched on this, but I'll agree with them and say that this may be true, but the editing isn't showing it that way at all. Mike is being portrayed as a doofus, which doesn't suggest he wins. Normally the doofus doesn't win. Although it did happen with Fabio, so it is possible. I just don't think it's likely. 

Probst said they could still vote for Ben.

I think it's possible the others just don't see her as much of a threat. They might be picking up on some of the hate many of the booted players had for her and believe she can't win because of it. 

I'm not so sure Mike is being portrayed as a doofus so much as a vocal few here are perceiving him as such.  I mean, he's being portrayed as upbeat and being comedy relief sometimes but I don't really see his game as as ridiculous as others here do.  He's still there and he has zero blood on his hands and by all accounts (from jurors) he's well-liked and is playing his ass off.  

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Because what does it matter?  They're with him when he finds the idol, so what?  I am not sure I'm getting the huge benefit of following Ben around.   If people followed me around I'd still look for the idol , grab it, and keep it.  So?

My thoughts exactly.  

[blackwing]

25 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Because what does it matter?  They're with him when he finds the idol, so what?  I am not sure I'm getting the huge benefit of following Ben around.   If people followed me around I'd still look for the idol , grab it, and keep it.  So?

Well, if Lauren had known he had an idol, she would have made a different plan and played her advantage and probably not given half her idol to Mike.  This time around, they would have seen that he didn't find an idol, just a piece of paper, and then could have just watched where he was looking for the actual idol and perhaps found it before him.

[ImpinAintEasy]

Mike is a goat. I’d be shocked if he wins. He’d be one of the worst winners of all-time. IMO. None of them will go down as great players, though I think Devon is severely underrated. He hasn’t received a single vote yet, and has deftly moved from alliance to alliance without seemingly offending anyone. He seems to be the most well liked player as well, so his social game is strong. Ben is a guaranteed winner if he makes it to the end, as he has played the flashiest, most high risk game, but should he be voted out, I believe Devon would deserve the win. Even if both make the FTC, I believe Devon has arguably played better overall. 

[Bouffe]

Chrissy, that is not a good look on you when you realize you plans are going in the pooper. And her comments to Ashley about being "unsportsmanlike" and to Ben about his saying "Boom" were childish. Not that I like that Ben is showing off, but when Chrissy wins, she shows off too. If you don't like when the people do it, why you doin' it, Chrissy?

I keep going back and forth on who I like and who I don't like. It's been like this for me all season. Sometimes I like Chrissy, or Ben, and sometimes I dislike them both. No matter how I feel about them tho, both would be worthy winners, as they are playing their tails off. I don't think anyone can ague with that. Chrissy won two Individual Immunity and seems to control her alliance, and Ben is playing hard, finding idols, causing chaos. Ben is in people's face and they all know he is a threat. I don't know if the other players see Chrissy as that dangerous of a thread? They surely should.

I would hope that the jury will not be bitter and award the win to the most deserving player. If either Chrissy or Ben go to the F3, they win. The only way Devon, Mike or Ryan win is if they go to F3 together, without Chrissy or Ben.

[Bouffe]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Quote18 HOURS AGO,  MISSEWA SAID: 

 

If playing an idol pre-votes means people aren't allowed to vote for you, that's a fundamental shift in its powers, IMO, and I'm curious to see if this is going to have unforeseen repercussions in future seasons. 

 

Probst said they could still vote for Ben.

Why would anyone want to vote for someone who plays an idol before the vote, other than to throw away said vote?

[MissEwa]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

Yep, it all comes down to trust.

@MissEwa - look at the situation: Chrissy is wearing the immunity necklace and Ben has played his idol, so there are only four possibilities for eviction - Ashley, Devon, Mike, or Ryan.  Now, pretend you are Devon.  Ae you SOOO certain of your safety in the upcoming vote that you're ready to cast a useless throwaway vote for Ben - and for what purpose?  How are you going to feel if you end up evicted - especially if it's by a one vote margin?  Seems like an awful high price to pay for a fit of pique - but hey, maybe that's just me.  :)

Good point. But to some extent, isn't this always the case? Like you always vote based on some sort of faith that the people in your alliance are voting the same way, and if you're wrong, that vote could be what get you sent home, whoever it's for. I'm  not saying voting for Ben would have been a good move, but in answer to the question of 'who could Devon have voted for besides Ashley?' the only options that were coming up were Ryan or Mike, both of which would alienate him from his newly-formed alliance. Ben would have been an option that didn't (or did so to a lesser extent). 

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Probst said they could still vote for Ben.

Oh, cool - thanks! I was only half paying attention and wondering if I missed him saying . 
@Bouffe - exactly to throw it away. In this case, because Ashley was his closest ally and she was being voted out unanimously. It's a way to let that happen without either losing her vote at FTC or targetting someone in his new alliance. Basically it's as close as you ever get in Survivor to the ability to abstain. 
 

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Because what does it matter?  They're with him when he finds the idol, so what?  I am not sure I'm getting the huge benefit of following Ben around.   If people followed me around I'd still look for the idol , grab it, and keep it.  So?

Then they know and can avoid a situation like the week before by splitting votes. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by MissEwa
replying to new comment

[cooksdelight]

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Perhaps, the Chrissy hate is more of an aftermath from the editing on the show.

Yeah, ask Abi Maria about that. The good side of her and how hard she worked around camp hit the cutting room floor.

[amazingracefan]

I thought it was funny when Ashley and Mike were complaining about Ryan going on the reward because he is young and he doesn't need it.  Ryan has been near to a walking skeleton out there to my eyes.

[Special K]

15 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

I thought it was funny when Ashley and Mike were complaining about Ryan going on the reward because he is young and he doesn't need it.  Ryan has been near to a walking skeleton out there to my eyes.

I know!  Mike was all:  "He's 22, he has more energy than any of us!"  It looks like Ryan can barely lift his arm to shade his eyes!
 

[KimberStormer]

What was amazing was that literally the next sentence out of his mouth was "he sucked at the challenge, he could barely move!"  Pick one, Dr. Mike!

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Bouffe said:

No matter how I feel about them tho, both would be worthy winners, as they are playing their tails off. I don't think anyone can ague with that.

I agree that everyone left, with the exception of Ryan, is playing hard, but they're playing so poorly it's almost comical. They're very lucky they're all so amazingly bad at some part of the game. 

I think this season has proven to me that I like watching people play quiet, good games better than watching people play hard but terribly. But I do occasionally get a real kick out of watching bad players make fools of themselves!

[meep.meep]

I think the editors are showing the game play a lot more than they have in the past.  I just can't get warmed up to any of these folks.  I don't care who wins, they haven't given me anyone to root for.

This should be the last time they ever use idols.  The whole season has been ridiculous.   And nobody following Ben around?  Boston Rob had a great idea with the "buddy system" way back when.

[HurricaneVal]

I'm not really fond of Chrissy or Ben, but you cannot deny that they are playing this game, and playing hard.  Some of the moves seem kind of dumb and inspired by personal feelings and immediate circumstances, but they are at least making the moves.  I would be OK with either one of them winning on the merits of their game play.

I think Devon is either playing a really deep game, or he is playing an ad hoc game where he's staying on the top of all the votes by surfing on the surface of the chaos going on around him.  Outing the idol, and essentially double-dog daring Ben to use it was pretty brilliant.  I'd be curious to learn if that was as a result of careful thought and strategy, or a spontaneously instinctive move.  I'd be OK with a Devon win.

Mike is a difficult one, that is for sure.  As I've said before, I like Mike the person, but not Mike the "Survivor Character."   I don't think there's much game play to point to here, he's been so very random the whole time.  But...if he makes the final three, and he sheds the character to speak from his heart, I think he could make a great case about being the last Healer standing, and standing for a good long time.  He could make the argument that for every vote, he was an easy out so he had to scramble every day to stay alive.  I think it is a long shot, but if he makes the final three, and plays it that way, I'd be OK with a Mike win.  But only on game play, not as a goat.  I hate goat wins. 

I like Ashley, but I didn't see much game play from her, and the sour grapes about not getting selected for the reward were a little overblown for my taste.

I just want to see Ryan survive to the end.  Maybe they should throw the prize to him to celebrate his literal survival.

[green]

12 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I think of a villain as someone who's ruthless at the game in the service of making good game moves, not as someone who bullies or harasses or is just generally a shitheel. To me, a villain is a Hatch, Heidik, Boston Rob, Parvati, Kim, or Sandra.

 

Wow I never in a million years would think being a good, hard player would make someone a villain.  Like calling Aaron Judge a villain because he won rookie of the year and came in second for MVP in the AL this season.  He's a real good player, not a villain.  And this comes from a diehard Red Sox fan.

11 hours ago, himela said:

From my point of view this was a season where most women were really cool and I loved them (Roark, Desi, Ali, even Ashley was ok) but we didn't get to see much from them. This is a reason I don't like Chrissy, because in my eyes she was the reason these women were booted.

But we went through this a couple of weeks back.  She didn't target most of the women at all.  It was other people in the main. 

And she said she feared Ashley would come after her first which well could have been true.  If Ashley got out Chrissy she could then take her spot in a final three of her, Ryan and Devon.

But despite that fear, Chrissy still went with getting Ben out first, not Ashley, because she actually listens to her alliance members and knows when not to push her own agenda.  Ashley went home not because of some personal vendetta against women.  Ashley went home because the alliance of final three (Chrissy, Ryan and Devon) could only choose between her or Mike at this tribal after Ben played the idol.  It was a no brainer that Ashley was by far the bigger threat both at immunity and in her game skills. 

Mike, OTOH, would make a nice goat if one of the other alliance member went by the wayside because of yet another idol Ben finds.  (Please tell me there are no more idols the rest of the season though they probably will have some stupid advantage thrown in because this is the season of "advantages" as well since apparently endless idols are not enough).

[SVNBob]

10 hours ago, Bouffe said:

Why would anyone want to vote for someone who plays an idol before the vote, other than to throw away said vote?

Just to be sure.  After all, we're talking about Ben here, who has already shown that he can make a decent fake idol.  For all they really knew, he'd done just that, and playing it early was a huge bluff.  As seen, Peachy didn't say it was real until the usual time, between casting votes and reading them, so a fake wouldn't have been revealed until that moment. 

That means that throwing a vote Ben's way wouldn't necessarily have been a throwaway vote.   It could have been a sign that said "I know you're bluffing."  Granted, it wouldn't have been here.  But it very well could happen in a future season.

[green]

43 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

Just to be sure.  After all, we're talking about Ben here, who has already shown that he can make a decent fake idol.  For all they really knew, he'd done just that, and playing it early was a huge bluff.  As seen, Peachy didn't say it was real until the usual time, between casting votes and reading them, so a fake wouldn't have been revealed until that moment. 

That means that throwing a vote Ben's way wouldn't necessarily have been a throwaway vote.   It could have been a sign that said "I know you're bluffing."  Granted, it wouldn't have been here.  But it very well could happen in a future season.

I thought Ben trotted it over before the voting because Devon suggested he was just bluffing and wouldn't play it.  And Probst said it was a real idol and any votes cast for Ben wouldn't count.  Only after that they voted.

[cherrypj]

How can it be that "Everyone is playing terribly!!" if, y'know, they're still there? 

[SVNBob]

20 minutes ago, cherrypj said:

How can it be that "Everyone is playing terribly!!" if, y'know, they're still there? 

Not that I'm saying this, but...

While this F5 may be the best of this season, they'd all rank very low on the overall Survivor player charts.  In other words, they may be the big fish in this particular pond, but they're tiny fish in the overall Survivor ocean.

[Guest]

Eh, I like the cast fine.  They’re playing hard which is more than some casts.   There’s no way of knowing how anyone would fare with different opponents.  

[ByaNose]

14 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I'm not really fond of Chrissy or Ben, but you cannot deny that they are playing this game, and playing hard.  Some of the moves seem kind of dumb and inspired by personal feelings and immediate circumstances, but they are at least making the moves.  I would be OK with either one of them winning on the merits of their game play.

I think Devon is either playing a really deep game, or he is playing an ad hoc game where he's staying on the top of all the votes by surfing on the surface of the chaos going on around him.  Outing the idol, and essentially double-dog daring Ben to use it was pretty brilliant.  I'd be curious to learn if that was as a result of careful thought and strategy, or a spontaneously instinctive move.  I'd be OK with a Devon win.

Mike is a difficult one, that is for sure.  As I've said before, I like Mike the person, but not Mike the "Survivor Character."   I don't think there's much game play to point to here, he's been so very random the whole time.  But...if he makes the final three, and he sheds the character to speak from his heart, I think he could make a great case about being the last Healer standing, and standing for a good long time.  He could make the argument that for every vote, he was an easy out so he had to scramble every day to stay alive.  I think it is a long shot, but if he makes the final three, and plays it that way, I'd be OK with a Mike win.  But only on game play, not as a goat.  I hate goat wins. 

I like Ashley, but I didn't see much game play from her, and the sour grapes about not getting selected for the reward were a little overblown for my taste.

I just want to see Ryan survive to the end.  Maybe they should throw the prize to him to celebrate his literal survival.

I thought Ryan was winner for most of the season. Mostly due to him being the narriator, air time and the edit. It seemed to die down at the merge and now he just seems to be there you really don't hear that much from him anymore. It's almost like the editors needed him to guide the season since it was slow in the beggining but once they got to the good stuff they dumped him. I don't think he will win. He could make the Final 3 but overall I don't think he's going to win.

[Knuckles]

All the idols are ruining the game. Seriously. And the rewards have become much too common. Survivor used to be much more hard scrabble, and being hungry and tired upped the game...made the alliances and broken promises much more interesting. I keep wanting to like Mike, but he says such stupid stuff, and Devon is clearly just a doofus. Ashley was playing hard, and i liked seeing some real emotion from her after Devon's betrayal...but it did not help her game at all. Ben and Chrissy are equally overbearing, and i find them both unlikeable. I am sorry Lauren is gone...she was my fave.

Weird season. Usually I have someone to really root for...this time, no one really.

[legaleagle53]

Nothing to see here, folks!

Edited December 16, 2017 by legaleagle53

[green]

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Nothing to see here, folks!

Was this because you deleted your post or is this your comment on this season, heh.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, green said:

Was this because you deleted your post or is this your comment on this season, heh.

The former.  It was a response to someone else's post that I had misunderstood. But come to think of it, it does sum up this season somewhat, doesn't it?  LOL

[Blissfool]

I might be the only person watching this that dislikes Devon, his deluded mind, and his wishy-washy ways.

On 12/14/2017 at 11:54 AM, RedheadZombie said:

I just want to know how in the hell Devon had his legs folded up at tribal.  They looked like muscle-wasted extremities of a polio survivor.  

To me it looked like a frog-stance.

[ByaNose]

I think Ben is going to win. I think his story has been fleshed out the most compared to everyone else’s. I think most will respect his game because he kept on playing and never rolled over and died. I’m curious to see if Chrissy is on the jury if she would vote him though. They started since Day 1 but were split up early and never got back together again. I’m pretty sure she would vote for any of other guys over Ben, right?

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

I’m curious to see if Chrissy is on the jury if she would vote him though. They started since Day 1 but were split up early and never got back together again. I’m pretty sure she would vote for any of other guys over Ben, right?

In truth, I don't think there's any reliable way to tell pre-eviction how closely one's in-game and out-of-game personae may correspond.  Person A may want to rip out Person B's guts while they're still in the game; let Person A's torch get snuffed, however, and they may turn into Person B's staunchest supporter on the Jury.  I for one would be very interested in seeing how Chrissy's deportment might change if her competition motivation were removed.

[SVNBob]

On 12/16/2017 at 1:09 AM, green said:

I thought Ben trotted it over before the voting because Devon suggested he was just bluffing and wouldn't play it.  And Probst said it was a real idol and any votes cast for Ben wouldn't count.  Only after that they voted.

I checked.  And you were right.  My mistake.

[marys1000]

On 12/16/2017 at 6:24 AM, SVNBob said:

Not that I'm saying this, but...

While this F5 may be the best of this season, they'd all rank very low on the overall Survivor player charts.  In other words, they may be the big fish in this particular pond, but they're tiny fish in the overall Survivor ocean.

Yes from the beginning it has seemed like a Ryan, Chrissy, Ben edit for F3.  For that to happen Ben would have to win immunity challenge which is possible. 

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, marys1000 said:

Yes from the beginning it has seemed like a Ryan, Chrissy, Ben edit for F3.  For that to happen Ben would have to win immunity challenge which is possible. 

That, or someone pulls a Woo - doubtful, considering the moral code of our remaining contestants appears to be Code:Selfish, but ya never know.  ;)

[henripootel]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:28 PM, LanceM said:

Because Ben played the idol. Once you give the idol to Probst it is played and he has to reveal if it is real or not.  Had he refused to say whether it was real or not until after the votes he would essentially be helping Ben and interfering with the game.

That's a fair reading of the right or wrong of it, but I'd remind that Probst is perfectly capable of withholding pertinent info to the benefit of a single player.  I'm thinking of Tony the Cop and his Super-HII, and non-reveal of its expiration date.

It might have actually been a bit more interesting if Probst hadn't said if it was real before the vote.  Question to our Survivor scholars: has this ever happened before?

On 12/15/2017 at 9:56 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I didn't wonder if Ben would find it.  As soon as they showed him looking the first time, I knew he would.

As soon as they made clear that Ben failing to find it meant Ben was for sure going home, I knew Ben would find it.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that the HIIs ruined Survivor but I do think they're going too far with them.  I know they're trying to avoid votes where the outcome is obvious but the game really has turned to 'HII Hunt'.  I think this should be an adjunct to good strategy, not a strategy unto itself.  

Edited December 17, 2017 by henripootel

[llewis823]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:16 PM, jay741982 said:

Devon fucking deserved it cause he's a Moron who voted out a sure Jury vote and biggest ally. Then he smiles afterward towards the Jury like he's some big player dude you just lost 

WORD! That look he gave the jury - the "player dude smile" was EXACTLY that. It reminded me so much of high school when a guy cheated on his girlfriend and was caught - the smile he gave to save face with the guys. And I so liked Devon before putting together this Final Three with Chrissy and Ryan just because they were there. That was his only strategy for "big game play"...just because they were there. If fate had dealt him Dr. Mike & Ben on this reward, that would have been his final three. 

[marys1000]

I realize a lot of people hate idols.  Or too many idols.  Or idols that are too easily found.  Not sure how I feel about them, it can be situational I guess. 

But from a producer point of view, there isn't really a point in hiding idols that won't be found.   I myself would probably look all the time but not be that sucessful. 

I have a tendency to....IDK get sort of tunnel vision or too focused or something.  Like I'd be looking so hard at the crotch of a a specific tree branch I wouldn't see 

a huge idol in the crotch above it.  Other people are good scanners.  Shrug.  

Mike said he looked and looked and so he saw no point in following Ben or thinking he had one because he didn't think there was one to be found because he didn't find it (hubris right there)