S02.E07: Matrimonium

[formerlyfreedom]

 

Quote

A letter from Peter Townsend spurs Margaret to make a bold proposal. Elizabeth has good news that causes complications for Margaret.

 

[Roseanna]

Margarert evidently married Tony because Peter Townsend announced his intention to marry another. And Tony who abhorred marriage in principle, accepted Margaret's proposal in order to make his mother to value her and to get a higher title than his step-brother. What a pair!

I guess Elizabeth didn't reveal Tony's past and present sexual experiences to Margaret because she felt pity towards her. Maybe she should have.

On the other hand, at that time Margaret had to marry, especially if she wanted children.  

[PinkRibbons]

I wasn't too clear on what Margaret expected from Tony; for all I could understand she was so into the Bohemian Thing that she may have known about the other lovers. Or maybe she doesn't know jack. Or maybe she knows but expects him to give the others up after the wedding. She's so needy that I feel like she was willing to concede to just about anything at this point.

[Quilt Fairy]

Not specific to this episode, but damn, what does Elizabeth carry in her purse?  She's got it with her everywhere.  I can understand it - sort of - when going out, but she's carrying it from room to room in her house.  Who does that?

[Cirien]

2 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Not specific to this episode, but damn, what does Elizabeth carry in her purse?  She's got it with her everywhere.  I can understand it - sort of - when going out, but she's carrying it from room to room in her house.  Who does that?

Not sure about what she used to carry, but  I believe today she carries a mirror, her favourite lipstick and a crisp £5-£10 note. She also carries some throat lozenges and her reading glasses and a suction cup so she can hang the bag from the table instead of putting on the floor. She can also use the handbag to signal to her staff when she wants a conversation to end quickly . 

 

"Her Majesty’s personal bag is used as much to send secret signals to staff as it is to carry personal items. If the Queen places her handbag on the table at dinner, it signals that she wants the event to end in the next five minutes. If she puts her bag on the floor, it shows she’s not enjoying the conversation and wants to be rescued by her lady-in-waiting."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/queen-elizabeth-whats-inside-her-handbag/

[Bama]

I really love that QE's ubiquitous handbag is used to send secret signals.

[millk]

They did an amazing job on the dress. It's my favourite royal wedding dress so expectations were high.

There have always been rumours about Andrew's paternity. (Didn't we talk about it somewhere here?) Didn't touch on it in the show thank goodness.

[Mindthinkr]

11 minutes ago, millk said:

They did an amazing job on the dress. It's my favourite royal wedding dress so expectations were high.

There have always been rumours about Andrew's paternity. (Didn't we talk about it somewhere here?) Didn't touch on it in the show thank goodness.

I've never heard any rumors re: Andrew's paternity. Did you mean the paternity of his best friends (Jeremy) and Camilla Fry's child? Later DNA testing did prove that Armstrong-Jones was the father of his best friend's child. 

[millk]

5 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I've never heard any rumors re: Andrew's paternity. Did you mean the paternity of his best friends (Jeremy) and Camilla Fry's child? Later DNA testing did prove that Armstrong-Jones was the father of his best friend's child. 

Nope, Andrew. I'm not going to give any clicks anywhere but they've always been around. 

[Mindthinkr]

@millk Didn't know that. I'd always assumed that she had been faithful to Philip. I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) that they've needed permission to film this in UK at various sites and therefore have agreed not to shed any light on anything that might sully the Queen. 

[millk]

Oh she has been faithful but some people need innuendo. 

[biakbiak]

My lord the sex montages were dull and boring. 

I just don't give a damn about Margaret, who I find to be a spoiled brat.

[2727]

Is this a show about Margaret? Which might be interesting but not the one I wanted to watch. Felt the same about Churchill last season.

E-liz-a-beth, please.

Edited December 13, 2017 by 2727

[Roseanna]

45 minutes ago, 2727 said:

Is this a show about Margaret? Which might be a interesting but not the one I wanted to watch. Felt the same about Churchill last season.

E-liz-a-beth, please.

This show is called The Crown. Margaret is an essential part as she is a sister of the Queen. Elizabeth wants Margaret to be happy, but Margaret's romances cause her trouble because her position as the Queen. 

Also, Elizabeth and Margaret have opposite characters. Elizabeth puts her duty first, Margaret is selfish and loves pleasure. Elizabeth hides her personality in order to be accepted by all and seems even pallid, Margaret thinks herself splendid and wants to be the centerpiece of attention.

It was the same as with duke of Windsor and George VI. The former was a charmer and had all the outer qualities to be a good king but he lacked the sense of duty that his brother who had so much difficulties had. 

[debi49]

I wonder if Armstrong-Jones was this big of an asshole in real life.  I don't like him for Margaret, tho I know she marries him.  

She didn't have a happy life . I wonder what it would have been like if she had been allowed to marry Peter.

[Helena Dax]

Margaret, gurl, he doesn't deserve you! He's an ass and it's easy to see since the beginning that it wasn't going to end well. Also, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't homosexuality still illegal in 1960? Like you could go to jail just for being gay? I mean, he's a risky choice for a family who hates scandals. I bet they're all now missing Townsend, heh. 

Philip's comment about how fast things were changing regarding who could marry a royal were true. It happened something similar in my country. Btw, I would love to see a show like this one about the Spanish Royal family. Sadly, no one here would dare. 

[Calvada]

I wish we could have seen Elizabeth telling her Private Secretary, Prime Minister, mother, husband she was pregnant.  It would have been interesting to see the varied reactions.  Did the palace make any type of announcement then?  Was there the type of public hysteria there's been each time William and Catherine have announced a pregnancy?  

[NetflixAddict]

Fun tidbit: the music playing behind the scenes of the family readying for Margaret’s wedding is a Latin hymn called Dies Irae - Day of Wrath!  

[biakbiak]

7 hours ago, Calvada said:

I .  Did the palace make any type of announcement then?  

Didn't Elizabeth tell Margaret that she would have to postpone announcong her engangement because they were going to annouce her pregnancy and no royal announcements could be made until after the baby was born. 

[Roseanna]

17 hours ago, biakbiak said:

My lord the sex montages were dull and boring. 

I think their reason wasn't excite us but to show the difference between these two couples: Margaret and Tony had unconventional pre-marital sex outside bed (sex being also one of the reasons why she wanted to marry him) whereas "the old married couple" Elizabeth and Philip were so exhausted after their official dinner that they went straight to their separate bedrooms. In short, pleasure vs. duty, once again. 

Also Margaret enjoyed speed and freedom sitting behind Tony on his motorbike whereas Philip was earlier often shown riding his convertible with Mike Parker, not Elizabeth. Sfe has to use the official black cars called "caskets" - except in Africa where she could (S1 ep2) taste the last moments of freedom and show that, while she is no intellectual, she has skills of a car mechanic trained during the WW2, as also shown in The Queen. 

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

think their reason wasn't excite us but to show the difference between these two couples: Margaret and Tony had unconventional pre-marital sex outside bed (sex being also one of the reasons why she wanted to marry him) whereas "the old married couple" Elizabeth and Philip were so exhausted after their official dinner that they went straight to their separate bedrooms. In short, pleasure vs. duty, once again. 

I was referring only to the Tony sex montages with Margaret and his other lover not Elizabeth and Philip. The ones with Tony I found dull and boring amd lacking chemistry and went on way too long.

[Bananna]

Good god, Armstrong-Jones' mother was a bitch. Kudos to that actress, she really played the social climbing uninterested mother part well. Even on the way to the wedding, she just did not care. 

Michael Adeane seems to be as useful as a chocolate teapot as the private secretary; all he does is call up Tommy Lascelles whenever there is a problem. 

I continued to be uninterested in the Margaret/Antony love story partly because I know how it all ends and partly because I can't really feel that sorry for either of them. 

[2727]

19 minutes ago, Bananna said:

Michael Adeane seems to be as useful as a chocolate teapot as the private secretary; all he does is call up Tommy Lascelles whenever there is a problem. 

I wonder how accurate the impression is? The actor plays him as terribly diffident -- chin down, hesitant speech, hardly looks anyone in the eye.

[andromeda331]

If Elizabeth would have told Margaret about the information she had. Do you think Margaret would have believed Elizabeth?  

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

If Elizabeth would have told Margaret about the information she had. Do you think Margaret would have believed Elizabeth?  

Given how Margaret seems to know all the gossip, I can't imagine she hadn't already heard things. 

[Eri]

21 hours ago, debi49 said:

I wonder if Armstrong-Jones was this big of an asshole in real life.  I don't like him for Margaret, tho I know she marries him.  

She didn't have a happy life . I wonder what it would have been like if she had been allowed to marry Peter.

From what I've read in the S1 thread - it was mentioned that the government was looking for ways to allow Margaret to marry Peter and to keep her title but she had second thoughts about him and Townsend later said that even if they had married, he wasn't sure the marriage would survive.

Quote

On 11/18/2016 at 2:47 AM, Bec said:

I was kind of hoping the show would make use of this letter: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/6520837/Princess-Margaret-recently-unearthed-letter-sheds-new-light-on-decision-not-to-marry.html

That puts the whole thing in a different light. She decided for herself she didn't want to marry him and used the duty of the crown as an excuse to avoid looking like a fickle fool.

....Not that it stopped her of course ;)

[Atlanta]

Sad for Margaret. Revenge marriage will never work and he'll never be faithful.

[Jodithgrace]

I think that if Elizabeth had told Margarent what her spies had found out, Margaret would never have forgiven her. Yes, she demanded the truth, but that kind of info never goes down well, and the messinger is never appreciated. Especially given the contentious relationship between Elizabeth and Margaret...all Margaret needed was to find out that Elizabeth had her fiance investigated behind her back. 

[moonb]

Was Tony's mother played by Anna Chancellor?  She's always been good at ice-cold characters. 

On a shallow note, god were Margaret's clothes stunning, especially the coats. 

[Lillith]

24 minutes ago, moonb said:

Was Tony's mother played by Anna Chancellor?  She's always been good at ice-cold characters. 

On a shallow note, god were Margaret's clothes stunning, especially the coats. 

I was going to ask if it was "Duckface" aka Miss Bingley. She really does unlikeable characters very well.  This marriage if off to a healthy start, no cause for concern at all. 

[humbleopinion]

How is my favorite Caroline Bingley(52 yrs old) old enough to be Matthew Goode's(39 yrs old) mother...acting!

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, Lillith said:

This marriage if off to a healthy start, no cause for concern at all. 

Capped off with wedding scenes filmed like everyone (save Margaret) was heading to a funeral, complete with grim expressions and blaring choir music.

[PRgal]

While I realize men’s expectations were very different back in the day, Philip playing squash while Elizabeth was In labour seemed arrogant in my 2017 eyes. And that “twilight” she was given creeped me out.  So they used forceps to drag the baby out?  

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

Capped off with wedding scenes filmed like everyone (save Margaret) was heading to a funeral, complete with grim expressions and blaring choir music.

I wonder if we'll get that replayed at Anne's, Charles's and Andrew's weddings. Probably at least Charles.

[MJ Frog]

Philip lying to Margaret that her father would have been proud, immediately followed by a shot of horseshit under the carriage --  a visual pun, perhaps?

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Given how Margaret seems to know all the gossip, I can't imagine she hadn't already heard things. 

She knew all the gossip in her circles. Tony's circle's were different to her. Unless her new lady in waiting told her who had the party she couldn't know,  

Besides, she was naive (like most people at that time):  she knew that there were homosexuals (she suspected at first that Tony was) but not that there were bisexuals.

Tommy Lascelles astonished me a bit: he seemed to be tolerant how people lived in private. But then, that was the way of the Establishment: so long the public reputation was ok, all was ok.    

[Capricasix]

18 hours ago, Bananna said:

 as useful as a chocolate teapot

That’s a great expression. I’m going to try to work it into my everyday conversation.

I confess that I don’t really like Matthew Goode. I was unimpressed with his character in Downton Abbey, and I’m not fond of Antony either.

[MissLucas]

43 minutes ago, Capricasix said:

I confess that I don’t really like Matthew Goode. I was unimpressed with his character in Downton Abbey, and I’m not fond of Antony either.

OMG! Finally! I thought I was the only female on this planet not getting it! Mister Goode might be a lovely person in real life but on screen I always find him incredibly creepy; his DA character felt more like stalker/serial killer than romantic lead to me.  But I find him perfect here because he pretty much nails Antony Snowdon's creepy charm. I can see why Margaret fell for him while I also want to scream 'Run, you fool!'

[jschoolgirl]

13 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

OMG! Finally! I thought I was the only female on this planet not getting it! Mister Goode might be a lovely person in real life but on screen I always find him incredibly creepy; his DA character felt more like stalker/serial killer than romantic lead to me.  But I find him perfect here because he pretty much nails Antony Snowdon's creepy charm. I can see why Margaret fell for him while I also want to scream 'Run, you fool!'

He's lovely to look at!

Were the television sets battery operated? I saw no cords at all, especially on the one placed on a small table toward the middle of a room.

[spaceghostess]

12 hours ago, PRgal said:

While I realize men’s expectations were very different back in the day, Philip playing squash while Elizabeth was In labour seemed arrogant in my 2017 eyes. And that “twilight” she was given creeped me out.  So they used forceps to drag the baby out?  

I wondered a little about the squash playing, too, not because I expected him to be anywhere near her when she gave birth, but because I figured he might at least choose to be somewhere in the cavernous palace. On the other hand, I could see a guy like Philip wanting a better way to get his nervous energy out than sitting and/or pacing outside the bedroom; that's how I'd fanwank it if I were feeling charitable toward him (which, as he's portrayed here, I mostly don't).

And ITA on the twilight sleep/forceps delivery, which I also found profoundly disturbing. It was going out of fashion by the late 1950s, but maybe Elizabeth opted for it because that's how she (and probably the Queen Mum) had had her other kids and she knew no other way? (There's also the fact that everything around her was so paternalized.) Queen Victoria actually kicked off the birth-under-anesthesia (for women of a certain class) thing . . . that article won't make you less creeped out, but it's edifying. My mother had her first baby in 1956 under twilight anesthesia, and she found the whole experience so awful that she had the rest of us naturally, starting with my sister in 1961. After I had my first son (emergency c-section @ 31 weeks due to preeclampsia), my grandma told me her birth stories, which also involved being knocked out and forceps (this is in the 1930s, and she wasn't well-to-do). She was tickled pink when she saw me breastfeeding him and said she'd never been able to do it, calling herself "a bad cow". Further discussion revealed that her twilight births had been very traumatic and probably affected how she bonded with my mom, aunt, and uncle, as well as her ability to nurse them successfully. But of course, she blamed herself . :( 

[beeziebee]

15 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

How is my favorite Caroline Bingley(52 yrs old) old enough to be Matthew Goode's(39 yrs old) mother...acting!

Was that Caroline Bingley?  I thought she was Anna Chancellor.

[Minivanessa]

16 hours ago, moonb said:

Was Tony's mother played by Anna Chancellor?  She's always been good at ice-cold characters. 

On a shallow note, god were Margaret's clothes stunning, especially the coats. 

Yes, Anna Chancellor. She really nailed it. Even her overdone makeup in the car on the way to the Abbey was just perfect for the character. 

[greekmom]

I have to say Elizabeth was so dense when it came to Margaret. Townsend was a better choice for the Family instead of Tony and probably would have not resulted in a divorce or issues for the firm.  Elizabeth only gave in because of Margaret's desperation resulting from Peter's announcement of his engagement. 

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. 

[humbleopinion]

Anna Chancellor, the actress played the roles of Caroline Bingley and Anthony Snowden's mother.

[dubbel zout]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:41 AM, Roseanna said:

In short, pleasure vs. duty, once again.

Exactly. This show isn't subtle. I'm tired of the oh-so-convenient thunderclaps, as well. 

3 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

twilight sleep/forceps delivery

That's how it happened with a lot of women: They'd be put to sleep and wake up three days later with a baby. Yikes.

53 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Anthony Snowden's mother

If that portrayal is even 50 percent accurate, poor Tony. Lady Rosse is a horror. (Anna Chancellor can do no wrong, however!)

[jrlr]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

OMG! Finally! I thought I was the only female on this planet not getting it! Mister Goode might be a lovely person in real life but on screen I always find him incredibly creepy; his DA character felt more like stalker/serial killer than romantic lead to me.  But I find him perfect here because he pretty much nails Antony Snowdon's creepy charm. I can see why Margaret fell for him while I also want to scream 'Run, you fool!'

Add me to the list.  In both DA and TC, dark-haired or blonde, he's never struck me as very interesting - just conventionally "good-looking" in a wimpy sort of way.

[Pickles]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Anna Chancellor, the actress played the roles of Caroline Bingley and Anthony Snowden's mother.

I thought she looked way too young to be Snowden's mother. When she was meeting him for lunch (before it was made clear who she was), I thought she was one of his former lovers!

[humbleopinion]

Because we root to have Anna Chancellor in any role... we will suspend belief and accept that they are mummy and son.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:39 AM, biakbiak said:

Didn't Elizabeth tell Margaret that she would have to postpone announcong her engangement because they were going to annouce her pregnancy and no royal announcements could be made until after the baby was born. 

The rules they lived by would drive me crazy.  It's a protocol, not a law or scientific principle.  It can be broken!  It reminds me of a scene in Young Victoria.  Prince Albert enters a room in the palace and finds a table set for a large dinner.  He asks who the dinner is for and a servant says it's for the guards of Charles III (who had died 18 years earlier).  "I see. And how often do they have this dinner?" "Oh, every night, sir."

[SWLinPHX]

So is it a known fact the Queen sent out her spies and knew that Anthony-Jones was bisexual and a philanderer before they got married?

On 12/8/2017 at 3:57 PM, Roseanna said:

Margarert evidently married Tony because Peter Townsend announced his intention to marry another. And Tony who abhorred marriage in principle, accepted Margaret's proposal in order to make his mother to value her and to get a higher title than his step-brother. What a pair!

Wasn't it Tony's half-brother (not step-brother)?