S03.E11: Uncharted

[Athena]

Quote

After making a leap of faith, Claire washes up on a seemingly deserted island where survival is her only option. Navigating treacherous waters has crippled the Artemis, so Jamie devises a joyful moment for his crew in the midst of devastating setbacks.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Book readers are discouraged from posting and liking in this thread. Posts may be removed without warning.

[leighdear]

That was a very nice reunion, I'm glad they didn't drag it out until the final moments in cliff-hanger style.  The jungle trek went on a little long, but it was done really well.  

I wonder what Mamacita thought when she saw the zipper in Claire's corset?  She didn't say anything about it to the priest. 

Good for Marsali and Fergus.  Now they can boink in sanctioned passion!  *LOL*

And a quibble about the Turtle soup.  Claire, a proper Brit woman, would have instantly recognized a large amount of Sherry in the soup.  It has a very distinctive taste and it's practically required drinking at tipple time in England.  I love cooking with Sherry & put it in almost any creamy soup, especially seafood chowder.  Claire wouldn't have been surprised after the first bite of soup. 

Excellent episode, though I'm sad about the late Arabella.  

[jqdeco]

I am officially caught up! I just discovered this show a couple of weeks ago and have been watching 2-3 episodes a night. I loved this episode. Claire wandering thru the jungle went on a few minutes to long, but loved the reunion and turtle soup scene. 

I am very sad that there are only two episodes left though. I'll have to start from the beginning again. :)

[Auj]

Ugh!  What is this? I thought it was Pirates of the Caribbean but Noooo...it’s Wilson from the movie Castaway. Oh, I only hope TomHanks shows up as there are so many excruciatingly boring characters on this extremely crowded island. A neighbor of mine just had little baby goats and I have been happily helping her with them. They  are so soft and darling. I assure you seeing a decapitated skinless goat’s head is the last f****** thing I ever wanted to see in my life!!!  Is that a “plot device” ?!   Anyway , I only hope the last episodes improve for other viewers.  I am sadly done with Outlander.  In future,  I shall enjoy the first two seasons  and  ignore this one. Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays.

[ganesh]

Claire's VO: I don't know what island I'm on or how I would meet up with Jamie. 

Don't jump off the ship that was actually going there and figure out what to do when you got to port at Jamaica?

Edited November 27, 2017 by ganesh

[TaurusRose]

32 minutes ago, Auj said:

Ugh!  What is this? I thought it was Pirates of the Caribbean but Noooo...it’s Wilson from the movie Castaway. Oh, I only hope TomHanks shows up as there are so many excruciatingly boring characters on this extremely crowded island. A neighbor of mine just had little baby goats and I have been happily helping her with them. They  are so soft and darling. I assure you seeing a decapitated skinless goat’s head is the last f****** thing I ever wanted to see in my life!!!  Is that a “plot device” ?!   Anyway , I only hope the last episodes improve for other viewers.  I am sadly done with Outlander.  In future,  I shall enjoy the first two seasons  and  ignore this one. Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays.

I love little goats. I think they’re cute, so yeah. I feel your pain.

[ganesh]

Yeah, but they had to know that ships docked at the island from time to time. Don't let your pet goat go running around loose. 

Jamie's ship landing on the same island for repairs seemed awfully contrived. 

The show is mostly fanfiction this season. I suppose if that's all it is now, then it's not really worth taking that much stock in it. 

Ah, the time honored cheeseball trope of the bride/groom interrupting the priest to blurt out "I WILL". 

I would think Claire would have been wiser to learn how to make penicillin than to just take a finite quantity with her. I would think it would run out soon. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by ganesh

[BitterApple]

I agree that Claire walking through the jungle got a little bit draggy, but I liked the quirky priest and his Colonial version of Wilson from Castaway. Very convenient that Jaime's ship had issues and moored offshore at the very same island Claire happened to drift in on. 

I also liked how sweet Fergus looked when Jaime announced his last name was Fraser. Marsali isn't my favorite character but I hated her a little bit less this episode. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

I’ve kept watching this show, hoping it would improve. It hasn’t. If I want to watch 30 minutes of someone wandering around in the bush, I can always catch reruns of Naked and Afraid. So boring! So contrived! And such terrible writing. Nothing ever happens.

If the priest and Mr. Potato, I mean, Coconut Head was supposed to be comic relief, it wasn’t comical nor was it a relief. I’ll watch the rest of the season and that will be it for me. Too many good shows to enjoy and can’t justify wasting my time on this.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, Claire was on her own and was lucky enough to find a man who didn't want to kill or rape her? Miracle of miracles!

Everyone's in a hurry to get to Jamaica but they have time to stop and have a wedding?

Seeing all those ants on Claire's leg freaked me the fuck out. ARGGH!

Awwwww, hearing Jamie say that Fergus' last name was Fraser almost made me cry!

[terrymct]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

The show is mostly fanfiction this season. I suppose if that's all it is now, then it's not really worth taking that much stock in it. 

 

The show isn't good at these adventure chases.  It's strength in the past was the intrigue within Clan MacKenzie and between the Clan, it's neighbors, and the British Army.   Landscape and costumes also made the show worth watching.    I agree that this is fan fiction, and not good fan fiction.  These rounds of being separated and finding each other are like something written by a junior high schooler.   Of course Jamie's ship pulls in for repairs on the exact island that Claire happened to float toward.   Of course, the ship comes to the stretch of coastline nearest the crazy priest's home.   It was sort of odd that she walked for two days to reach the priest's house, but was able to run to the beach so quickly.  She must have floated up on the other side of the island, but that wasn't clear in the episode.

I have to say, however, that it was nice to see a whole episode go by without any raping or threats of rape.  I'm also thankful that Black Jack hasn't popped up like a jack in the box to try and assault either Jamie or Claire.

Edited November 27, 2017 by terrymct
added an additional thought

[RulerofallIsurvey]

What is it with every other woman in the 18th century calling Claire a whore?  I don't understand what the narrative is trying to tell me.  Either it must be true or it must be false.  Now, generally I think, when a preponderance of people, or characters, say the same thing, it's usually true.  If that's correct, is the show actually wanting me to think that Claire is a whore?  Why would the main heroine be portrayed as such?  Am I supposed to cheer for a whore and a Jezebel?  (In the right kind of story, I could and would, but this is not that kind of story).  Or is it supposed to be some kind of counter point (which makes no sense to me)?  I think it's interesting that, so far, the only women who haven't called Claire a whore, were the whores!  No, I think it's more likely that the writers think it's funny that all these other women are calling Claire a whore because she's a surgeon from the 20th century and they don't know that or understand how educated and advanced she really is.  But I don't think it's funny.  There's no reason to portray the 18th century women as so ignorant because they don't understand something they couldn't possibly understand that their default insult is to call another woman they don't even know a whore.  I'm sure they were better people than that. 

On another of I must have a very different sense of humor than the show runner/writers - I didn't think Claire talking to Coco was that funny.  In the commentary after the episode, Matt and I can't remember her name, talked about how they all burst out laughing whenever they see that scene.  Okay?  I understood why Claire was doing it, and I thought it was very clever of her, but not bust a gut funny.

Neither was the wedding.  I can see and appreciate how they were going for humor, and some of it was cute, but it just didn't click for me.  I think there, the source material is to blame.  For me, the funniest lines in this episode were the two sailors who talked about how Claire had a knack for dropping in out of the clear blue.  I cracked a wry smile at that.  At last someone noticed!    And while it was all, 'aw - Jamie gave Fergus his last name', didn't Fergus already have a last name?  Why would he have hesitated?  And to be honest, last name Fraser or not, I would be furious when I found out Jamie allowed my daughter to marry him and under such circumstances! 

Let's face it, the 'priest' wasn't really a priest.  He had no right to keep calling himself Father anything.  He ran off with a married woman (so if anyone was the whore and Jezebel in this story, it was Mamacita's daughter).  While it was very nice of him (and the right thing to do) to take in Claire and take care of her, if the governing diocese ever actually caught up with him, he would have been stripped of his priesthood and he knows that very well.  I can't believe Jamie agreed to let him officiate.  It doesn't take much to satisfy his Catholic sensibilities, does it? 

At least Marsali didn't whine about having to help out with some hard work when the mast broke.  I'm surprised by that actually.  And I really wanted to hear that conversation between Claire and Marsali.  What methods of contraception would she advise her to use?  What methods are readily available in the 18th century on a ship?  That would have been interesting.  I suppose it doesn't really matter.  That was just a convenient plot device to explain why Marsali doesn't immediately get pregnant.

I can't believe Claire, as a physician, didn't ask Mamacita what she used on her legs to help cure the ant bites.  Whore appellation aside, Claire could use a lesson in manners.  During her stay with Fodgen, I think I only heard her say "Thank You" once.  Honey, they probably saved your life.  How about showing a little more gratitude? 

Finally: I know I complained last season about the lack of intimacy between Jamie and Claire.  With this show it's either feast or famine, isn't it?  Damn.  Have the writers never heard of moderation?  At least I didn't have to see lingering shots of Claire's breasts this time, but Jamie's back is just painful to look at.  There could be more fade to black scenes and that would do the trick just as well, I think. 

It sounds like I didn't really enjoy the episode, but overall I did.  I think Claire trekking through the jungle went on way too long, even though I did think 'poor Claire!' first with the ant bites then the snake.  I think the scenes of the men repairing the ship on the shore were much more interesting than half the time spent on Claire wandering around and they could have been intercut better so as to make the Claire portion less boring.  For all Mamacita's illogical animosity toward Claire, I think more time should have been spent on her recovery and why this woman didn't like her for no reason at all.  If Claire had asked her about the green stuff on her legs, maybe they could have found some common ground. 

I don't understand how Claire and Jamie on the Artemis are going to get to Jamaica before The Porpoise when The Porpoise was ahead of them.  It probably doesn't matter either - much like Marsali's birth control. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[ganesh]

I think maybe seeing a seemingly unattached woman in those times leads one to speculate that she must be a whore. Proper women would be accompanied by a man.

And while the whores never called her a whore, they inherently assumed she was one, since she was wandering around the whorehouse in her underwear.

I'm getting a little disappointed that Claire bringing items from the future isn't becoming problematic. They already had the woman curious about the zipper, so I hope that's foreshadowing.

[Jadzia]

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

At least Marsali didn't whine about having to help out with some hard work when the mast broke.  I'm surprised by that actually.  And I really wanted to hear that conversation between Claire and Marsali.  What methods of contraception would she advise her to use?  What methods are readily available in the 18th century on a ship?  That would have been interesting.  I suppose it doesn't really matter.  That was just a convenient plot device to explain why Marsali doesn't immediately get pregnant.

 

When Marsali was saying that Fergus knew of a way to do it but she might not like it at first I immediately giggled and thought "Anal?"

[Otherkate]

If anyone is reading this thread before watching the episode, let me give you a piece of advice - find something else to do on the side for the first 10-15 minutes. Somehow less than 20 min of Claire wandering around an island managed to be more boring that 2 hours of Tom Hanks doing it. 

Did anyone else get a major J. Peterman vibe from the priest? 

I enjoyed the weird wedding, but it seemed very off to me that Marsali would make that joke about wanting to bed him for months. Threw me out of the moment entirely. That said, Jamie and Fergus are at this point my OTP and their family love is my favorite thing this season. The moment between them was everything. Everything!

Speaking of, I know that Jamie and Fergus were delivering an explanation of how they ended up beached but it was so much info and their accents were killing me, I barely understood any of it. Seems like a bad way to deliver that information. 

I did kind of enjoy this episode, but the show is nowhere near as interesting to me as it was in Season One which is depressing. Wish we could have spent more time there. 

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, terrymct said:

 I agree that this is fan fiction, and not good fan fiction. 

I thought Game of Thrones was getting bad with the fan fiction. Outlander has them beat by a mile. I agree it's becoming a little too convenient that Claire and Jaime are always managing to pop up at the right time to save the other's neck, or they're separated but defy logic and somehow reunite. The writers are just overusing plot devices at this point. 

Instead of wasting 20 minutes on Claire trudging through the jungle, why not show how Jaime and Co. ended up shipwrecked on the island? That would've been a much more interesting sequence.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Jadzia said:

When Marsali was saying that Fergus knew of a way to do it but she might not like it at first I immediately giggled and thought "Anal?"

There's a 100% foolproof way to have sex and not get pregnant. I'll give the newlyweds credit for recognizing that getting pregnant right now wouldn't be so smart. I thought in the conversation with Claire, that Claire was referring to the advice from the women in the brothel about avoiding pregnancy when she wandered downstairs and had breakfast with them. 

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

The writers are just overusing plot devices at this point. 

Instead of wasting 20 minutes on Claire trudging through the jungle, why not show how Jaime and Co. ended up shipwrecked on the island? That would've been a much more interesting sequence.

I didn't have a problem with them on separate ships. There was some suspense of each ship racing to Jamaica, and how Claire was going to tip Jamie off that he's being set up for arrest. We could have seen her getting involved with the other crew and hatching some bonkers plan. 

I think part of the problem is that we just don't have enough time to get to know the side characters. Spending more time on the ships would have helped. But here, we get Claire wandering around, then briefly two new characters who have been forgotten. Nice of Jamie to mention "looking for young Ian" though. Like, how?

I'm wondering if it's becoming difficult to adapt the books to tv because the source material at this point is fairly thin. We may very well get to Jamaica and then spend a whole season there, and we get to know a brand new cast of characters. 

I'm convinced that Merdaugh will be making an appearance and that he's on the pirate ship with Young Ian. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think maybe seeing a seemingly unattached woman in those times leads one to speculate that she must be a whore. Proper women would be accompanied by a man.

In some circumstances, I could accept that.  However, in the condition Claire was found - and wearing a wedding ring, and Mamacita's Married daughter having run off with a priest - I don't think that lady had any room to speculate like that.  And I think she still called her a whore after Claire mentioned that she had a husband. 

3 hours ago, Jadzia said:

When Marsali was saying that Fergus knew of a way to do it but she might not like it at first I immediately giggled and thought "Anal?"

I'd forgotten about that!  I'll admit that I don't like Marsali that much, so I probably wasn't paying a lot of attention to what she was saying.

[ganesh]

Maybe she thought she was a whore because she wasn't with her husband and she showed up half naked on the island seemingly out of thin air. I think it's just a general blanket insult and there's not much more to read into that. 

[tennisgurl]

I was just about to start making "Claire starts talking to Wilson" jokes, and then the show goes and does it for me! That is so considerate, Outlander! The first about 15 minutes were pretty boring, but I thought the stuff with the island priest and his mother in law were kind of entertaining, especially because it lead to Jaime and Claire finally got together, and it didn't take an entire freaking season!

Awwww, Fergus was so happy when Jaime said his last name! The wedding was pretty cute, even though I still dont like Marselli much, even though she has gotten a bit better. 

I laughed at the two guys saying how Claire just keeps showing up, and how it doesn't make sense. The random guys speak for all of us! 

Sometimes I really like that they're exploring other parts of the world, and sometimes I just really miss Scotland. Is it a coincidence that the best seasons were all in the Scotland years? 

WILLLLLSOOOOOON!!!!!

Edited November 28, 2017 by tennisgurl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As a tv viewer, I do appreciate that they have changed locations each season so that we got to see the beautiful French locations (and costumes) last year. Scotland was gorgeous too, but it was just a nice change of pace to have all of those bright colorful locations and clothes. And as someone who loves the beach and the ocean, I can't complain too much about the visuals from this season (although I definitely could have done without the nightmare of ants all over Claire's legs).

But I agree that the constant cycle of Jamie and Claire are separated/Jamie and Claire are desperate to get back to each other/Jamie and Claire happen to have perfect timing to rescue each other is getting old. No, life isn't perfect once you find someone to love, but that doesn't mean that their problems have to be written in this endless pattern. There are plenty of other problems they could explore that wouldn't rely on them being separated all the damn time.

[Otherkate]

I did love the time we spent in France. 

[tennisgurl]

I suppose it is hard to complain about seeing lots of lovely scenery and costumes. Plus, I do always like hearing the new spin on the theme song whenever we go somewhere new. 

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:34 PM, ganesh said:

I didn't have a problem with them on separate ships. There was some suspense of each ship racing to Jamaica, and how Claire was going to tip Jamie off that he's being set up for arrest. We could have seen her getting involved with the other crew and hatching some bonkers plan. 

I think we did see her create a bonkers plan.  That was my main gripe with this episode.

Instead of sailing to the place she knows Jamie will be and coming up with a plan to stop his arrest, she jumps into the ocean.  What was she planning?  To sit on a raft or an island, hope his boat passed, and that she could wave to him and stop him from going to where he would be arrested?

That this idiotic scenario happened and worked irritated me so much that I couldn't even bring myself to care that they were reunited.

There have been way too many stupid plot devices this season, starting with young Ian randomly getting kidnapped.  I'm not liking any thing about this ocean voyage.

[ganesh]

That wasn't what I meant by bonkers. That was contrivance. Bonkers would be they get to Jamaica and Claire convinced since it's the crew to set fire to the ship. Bonkers operates in a realm of logic on the characters' part. 

Both ships are sailing to Jamaica. Formulating plans in the meantime is what is fun. Claire jumped ship and coincidentally met up with Jamie. That's teen fan fiction. 

Bonkers would be Claire lightning the ship on fire as it comes to port in Jamaica and then jumping ship. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

Bonkers would be Claire lightning the ship on fire as it comes to port in Jamaica and then jumping ship. 

Yeah, that would be bonkers!  Lol.

Since it was a plague ship, couldn't Claire have had everyone (including the captain even though he wasn't infected - yet at least) quarantined by saying he was infected?  Then she could have gotten a message to Jamie. 

[ganesh]

Yeah stuff like that. I feel like the source material really holds the show back in comparison to the past Starz shows. 

[BitterApple]

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

 

Instead of sailing to the place she knows Jamie will be and coming up with a plan to stop his arrest, she jumps into the ocean.  What was she planning?  To sit on a raft or an island, hope his boat passed, and that she could wave to him and stop him from going to where he would be arrested?

 

Yeah, that's what I don't understand. What exactly was Clare's end game with that ridiculously stupid plan? She had no idea where the hell she was swimming to. What if nobody on the island spoke English? What if there were no vessels to take her to Jamaica? What if the natives were hostile and captured her? There's way too many variables in a situation like that. I don't have an issue with a few creative liberties, because after all, it's fiction, but when it happens over and over and the fortuitous coincidences become eye-roll worthy, maybe it's time to deviate from the source material in order to make a more believable show.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

23 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Yeah stuff like that. I feel like the source material really holds the show back in comparison to the past Starz shows. 

Well, I don't really know about other Starz shows, but I do agree about this one. 

[ganesh]

You're missing out. I mean, *blind Dracula on fire*. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Yeah, that's what I don't understand. What exactly was Clare's end game with that ridiculously stupid plan? She had no idea where the hell she was swimming to. What if nobody on the island spoke English? What if there were no vessels to take her to Jamaica? What if the natives were hostile and captured her? There's way too many variables in a situation like that. I don't have an issue with a few creative liberties, because after all, it's fiction, but when it happens over and over and the fortuitous coincidences become eye-roll worthy, maybe it's time to deviate from the source material in order to make a more believable show.

Actually, she did know where she was intending to go - Grand Turk.  In the previous episode before she jumped, Annekje points to the lights of the town in the distance and identifies it as Cockburn Town on Grand Turk (a presumably safe harbor town under either French or British control [thanks Wikipedia]).  In the voiceover in the beginning of this episode, Claire says that she knows she didn't land on Grand Turk because the island was too big and she'd floated for too long.  

Starz posts the scripts at www.outlandercommunity.com if anyone is interested.  It helps clear confusion sometimes, especially when characters like Annekje have such a thick accent (to American ears, at least) and no book secrets are revealed, just the show writers' intentions.  

[Bubbles]

As sweet as it was to see Jamie give Fergus his name, wouldn't that sort of make Fergus and Marsali step-siblings?

[ganesh]

Would that be much of an issue back then?

[toolazy]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

Would that be much of an issue back then?

Why should be much of an issue even now?  They aren't related nor did they grow up together.  

[piequinn35]

I think I missed it, what happened to the captain of Jamie's ship?

[toolazy]

4 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

I think I missed it, what happened to the captain of Jamie's ship?

He was killed when a storm blew the mast off or something.  It was in the exposition dump that took place immediately after we joined Jamie & Fergus on the beach. 

[piequinn35]

^thanks toolazy

The dialogue between Marsali and the priest was funny!

[kwnyc]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:48 PM, ganesh said:

I would think Claire would have been wiser to learn how to make penicillin than to just take a finite quantity with her. I would think it would run out soon. 

Also, she should know to point out that it was discovered by a SCOTSMAN! :-) (Sir Alexander Fleming).

On 11/27/2017 at 9:46 AM, Runswithscissors said:

Let's face it, the 'priest' wasn't really a priest. 

I kept thinking he wasn't a priest to begin with...it was just part of his whole imaginary life. 

[LilJen]

On 11/27/2017 at 12:39 PM, ganesh said:

I think maybe seeing a seemingly unattached woman in those times leads one to speculate that she must be a whore. Proper women would be accompanied by a man.

And while the whores never called her a whore, they inherently assumed she was one, since she was wandering around the whorehouse in her underwear.

I'm getting a little disappointed that Claire bringing items from the future isn't becoming problematic. They already had the woman curious about the zipper, so I hope that's foreshadowing.

You would think a woman who once died after being accused of witchcraft might have taken care to pitch her unauthentic corset with a zipper for a real one, you know, to prevent further accusations and all, but. . . Nope.

[chaifan]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:03 PM, LilJen said:

You would think a woman who once died after being accused of witchcraft might have taken care to pitch her unauthentic corset with a zipper for a real one, you know, to prevent further accusations and all, but. . . Nope.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too.  I mean, the whole outfit would look out of place to anyone who looked close enough - they didn't have machine stitching yet.  But my immediate thought was, didn't Claire make a comment about her sewing experience being limited to making a few of Bri's halloween costumes?  Her whole outfit would be a challenge for an experienced seamstress.  Add in zippers and boning, and that takes some serious skill.  But a zippered corset that fits as snugly as a corset should?  That would be nearly impossible with the materials of that day.  There's a reason they were lace up - it's how you got them to fit so tight and do what they were supposed to do.  It would have been easier, and more efficient, for Claire to just make the corset with the eyeholes for the lacing. 

Of course, it's possible she bought the corset.  In that case, it would have been hilarious if the corset had a store tag that read Frederick's of Hollywood. 

[toolazy]

On 12/25/2019 at 9:19 PM, chaifan said:

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too.  I mean, the whole outfit would look out of place to anyone who looked close enough - they didn't have machine stitching yet. 

 

According to the costume designer, that's intentional.  Her clothes ARE going to be a big different from what everyone else is wearing.  Even clothes that she has made there are chosen/influenced by her modern aesthetic.   Look at the Dior-styled suit she wore in Paris, for instance.  She would have worked with a dressmaker to make that outfit and we can see the 20th century clear as day. 

 

 

[chaifan]

17 hours ago, toolazy said:

According to the costume designer, that's intentional.  Her clothes ARE going to be a big different from what everyone else is wearing.  Even clothes that she has made there are chosen/influenced by her modern aesthetic.   Look at the Dior-styled suit she wore in Paris, for instance.  She would have worked with a dressmaker to make that outfit and we can see the 20th century clear as day. 

 

 

I don't mind that the design/style is intentionally different.  (I loved the Dior style suit & hat from the Paris episodes!)  I'm talking about how the clothes are made - the materials and the use of a sewing machine.  Anyone who handled the outfit she made, whether to help her dress/undress, or wash it, or whatever, would notice it was created in a way that wasn't done back then.  It would have been a giveaway that she didn't belong, just like the zipper, would have invited questions, would have drawn attention to her which is just what she shouldn't be doing. 

The better route would have been to have a simpler dress made by hand, but bring enough silver so she could immediately buy a new wardrobe once she got there. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by chaifan

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 9:19 PM, chaifan said:

Yeah, I thought that was pretty stupid, too.  I mean, the whole outfit would look out of place to anyone who looked close enough - they didn't have machine stitching yet.  But my immediate thought was, didn't Claire make a comment about her sewing experience being limited to making a few of Bri's halloween costumes?  Her whole outfit would be a challenge for an experienced seamstress.  Add in zippers and boning, and that takes some serious skill.  But a zippered corset that fits as snugly as a corset should?  That would be nearly impossible with the materials of that day.  There's a reason they were lace up - it's how you got them to fit so tight and do what they were supposed to do.  It would have been easier, and more efficient, for Claire to just make the corset with the eyeholes for the lacing. 

I agree. I had a very expensive sewing machine, gifted to me, but not having a lot of sewing experience I only used to make pillows and curtains. No way would I be able to make a skirt with pockets and a jacket like Claire's outfit. And I agree about the stitching, it would look really different. Also, did she take the laces out of the corset and put a zipper in? I don't understand how a zippered corset would work the same as a laced one, and how the hell would she know how to make one?

I thought the walking through the jungle went on too long and why would she not follow the shoreline, she's looking for a port right?

I think it's soap opera storytelling that Jamie's ship just happened to need repair at the same island Claire washed up. Also, that goat that was killed sure did wonder far from home cause it took Claire a long time to reach the beach. Jamie and crew had repaired everything and loaded it back on the ship and was getting ready to set sail before she arrived. It had to be like an hour or so from the time she left the cabin to when she hit the beach.

I wished we would've seen more of Jamie's crew on the beach instead of Claire wondering through the jungle. They could've filmed it so we didn't know that Claire and Jamie was on the same island until the end reunion.

[Camera One]

I really thought the very moment Claire is able to step on the beach where Jaime is, a band of pirates or other aforementioned dangerous men would snatch Claire away and we would end with a "Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaime!!!!!!!!"

I couldn't really get into the wedding of Fergus and Marsali because I still don't like her, though she was slightly more palatable.  I hope Claire eventually tells her what her mother did to her.   The whole Fergus Fraser thing was nice, though.

I agree Claire stumbling through the jungle dragged on, but they did a good job of showing how grueling it was, and that impact would have been lessened if they had cut back and forth to Jaime's shipwreck.  I was a little aghast she threw the entire cotton thing in the fire, since she should have kept some to help start the fire the next night.

I didn't find the priest and Mamasita too likeable or interesting.

The reunion was nice, but it is a real stretch that of all the beaches surrounding all the islands in the Caribbean, Claire manages to stumble upon the exact one where Jaime gets shipwrecked.  I agree with the above poster that the best line were the men remarking that Jaime's wife pops up in the most unlikeliest of places.

I have mixed feelings about the changing setting of this show.  In some ways, it keeps it fresh and allows them to show different historical places and different aspects of life.  But it doesn't compare to how they explored Scotland in Season 1.  Though if they stayed there, that locale could have become stale and boring as well.

The whole scene where they were flirting/making out on the table, I thought they would knock over and break the remaining vials of penicillin or something.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Camera One

[Cdh20]

At the rate these two get hurt, they should be very careful with that penicillin! 

[Scarlett45]

I’m rewatching this episode to better follow along with the newbies. 😌

[gingerella]

Well, things just keep getting weirder and weirder, don't they? And more unrealistic what with all the luck and happenstance that Jamie and Claire seem to always be surrounded with. Let's dig in, though it's rather thin gravy this week...

The island where Claire landed looked like the shittiest island possible, no shade anywhere, bad luck! I wondered how her bag of clothes didn't sink and instead washed up onto the shore without her, that's magical right there because it didn't look like it was underneath her on the raft and even if it was, when the wave turned her over it should have sunk I think. Also, not for nothing but I was yelling at Claire to pull the raft up onto the shoreline just in case she needed it later on. I mean, it was working for her, just leaving it to get washed out to sea made no sense. And also, if she came and left by the same beach, and it looked similar in terms of terrain, they why didn't Jamie's crew notice a raft sitting there on the beach? It would have made a lot more sense if the water jugs - which looked like plastic, which would not have been around in the 1700's so what were they even made of?! I want to know! - had had the name 'HMS Porpoise' written on them and Jamie's crew had found the raft and then they went in search of Claire, hoping it was her who had escaped. But nope, they took the dope on a rope story angle...sigh

Stuff I didn't like or thought was really, really stupid:

Claire, girrrrl, do NOT toss your bump into the fire when there's heaps more stuffing in it to make, yanno, more fires! Jesus, woman, use your head here!

And for a doctor and a surgeon no less, those 'bandages' for her ant-bitten legs looked pretty useless to me. Maybe she's better tending to others than herself? She clearly wasn't thinking clearly with leaving the raft to be swept out to sea again, tossing the bump onto the fire when she might need more stuffing for the next fire, and she finds two rocks that are sharp enough to make sparks but she didn't think to mark the trees as she went along so she'd know the route back to the beach AND so she'd be able to know if she was wandering in circles. DUH. These people need a summer of Outward Bound lessons!

As soon as I saw the jungle my immediate thought was: spiders and snakes, and Show didn't disappoint.

The whole, 'Oh look! Jamie's men washed up onto the same beach/island as Claire did!' was so contrived it hurt my teeth. Plus, Jamie and the men reference the awful storm that made them lose several men overboard I assume, and break the mast, and yet Claire experienced no storm either onboard the Porpoise or whilst bobbing on her raft, so I'm calling bullshit on said storm. If it was a storm that mighty that men were swept overboard and it broke the mast, it would have been a storm strong and big enough that Claire would have known about it too as they couldn't have been that far ahead of Jamie's ship.

The crazy priest talking to a coconut. I mean come the fuck on show, it's a 1700's drama not a remake of a Tom Hanks movie! I know the device was used to keep us guessing as to whether or not the priest would actually take Claire to the port or not but there were other ways to make us see that he didn't have all his faculties intact other than referencing a 20th century movie.

Stuff I actually liked:

I liked the Rule of 3's - I'd never heard that before and it's something I will remember: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. Good to know Show. But if you knew that, Show, then why didn't Claire save the raft, save the extra bump stuffing, and start marking trees so she wouldn't get lost?!? Okay, I'll drop it already.

There were some call-backs to bits and pieces of the Show thus far, that popped up again in the second half of this episode which I quite appreciated:

1. The mention of 'A bandawe' and Claire's remembrance of the utterings of the crazy sister in Edinburgh. So she's not crazy after all is she, she really IS a seer, unlike her brother who appears to be more of a charlatan who is using his sister's visions to make money. But she knew of A bandawe before they left for Jamaica and how could she know that if she'd never been there before? Surely she is the skeleton whom Joe and Claire were looking over in Boston, she must have been murdered and left in the A bandawe cave, but why? Could she have been sacrificed because of her ability to be a seer? And if so, how is that significant to Claire and Jamie's story, unless she is also a time traveler and that's how she knew about the A bandawe cave? Perhaps she'd been there before? I'm wondering how many time travelers we've met but don't know yet? We know: Claire and Geillis, we think Master Raymond, who else? We heard the musician at Castle Leoch sing the woeful tale of the lady who went through the Stones and then back again, and that song according to Jamie, IIRC, was an old one, so for a very long time people have known about the Stones and time travel so I'm wondering who else can go through the Stones that  we've met...

2. The mention of a 'Chinaman and many sailors', which Claire knew to be Yi Tien Chao immediately. I liked how they went back to make amends with the priest for killing his goat BUT, where did they get the chicken from? I mean, these are the little details that just don't hold water with me, no pun intended there.

3. New Angus & Rupert saying, "Mac Dugh's wife turns up in the most unlikely places, dinna she?" That? Was hilarious, more please! At least it made sense, they were like the Greek chorus for us viewers.

4. Damn you Marsali for being such an easy-to-hate bitch, that I'm starting to really like as of this episode! Personality-wise, you're more like Claire's daughter than your own creepy Ma what with all your feistyness and street smarts! I really liked the short but meaningful convo between them whilst Marsali was dressing for her wedding. The fact that she saw 'how it was between them' - Jamie and Claire - and that it was so different and so loving and positive compared to the dread and angst and negativity that she witnessed between Jamie and her mother, that takes emotional intelligence, something she must have gotten from her father because she surely didn't get it from her mother. Which makes me wonder if Leery was really abused or if she's just mentally ill, because I'm starting to think the latter if her daughters are so well adjusted and nice people.

5. When Jamie stepped in and gave Fergus his family name, that was so well-deserved and a long time coming. I may or may not have gotten teary over that bit. Where did the 'Claudel' come from though? Was that the French name he gave Jamie when first they met in Paris? I know Jamie took to calling him 'Fergus' straight away so I forgot what his real name had been. That said, the wedding looked like it was at night and hadn't they need to set sail ASAP to get to Jamaica before the Porpoise, which already is highly unlikely if they've been shipwrecked and the Porpoise has been sailing all that time. Then again, I've learned that time is relevant - or irrelevant in a time travel show such as this!

6. Yi Tien Chao making turtle soup with so much Sherry in it that Claire gets drunk. That's a stretch because soup usually burns off the alcohol to leave just the taste but again, Show is asking me to believe she got tipsy on soup so I've no choice but to go with it. The whole flirting thing was sort of cute though, with the She-Devil comment and the bolt the door. At least these two are back at it again, go them! BUT, I would have liked to hear Claire and Marsali's talk about preventing unwanted pregnancies, that would have been a convo a lot of viewers would have liked to hear, I think. Alas we got the Monty Python version of a Claire and Jamie romp instead.

7. The bit with Jamie being squeamish to give Claire an injection was sort of cute and I enjoyed that bit. Thank god she didn't take her kit with her to the other ship, but I realized in that scene, she's basically lost her medical box hasn't she? Because I'm pretty sure she brought it aboard the Porpoise.

Observations that are neither liked nor disliked:

When Jamie told Claire, "Dinna fash Sassanach", I rolled my eyes pretty hard because Jamie talks a very chivalrous game about keeping her safe but he hasn't done such a great job of things thus far, has he?

* Castle Leoch upon arrival, Claire is tending his wounds by the fire and he tells her she need not fear anyone there...as long as he's with her.

* The Wedding Night, he tells Claire she has his name, his family, his clan, and if necessary the protection of his body.

* All the other times he's told her 'Dinna fash Sassenach!"

All the above times, shit goes down anyway. I know Jamie wants to be That Guy, who always saves the day, but maybe he ought to dial it back a wee bit and he'll have better luck in the shit storm department going forward.

"Leonard canna arrest a man he canna find..." Again, famous last words Jamie...So of course Leonard is going to find him.

MVP's of this episode:

Marsali for Most Improved Character evolution in shortest time.

Yi Ting Chao, because Willoughby is fucking awesome and I'm so glad that my instincts were right about him when first we met him at that baudy tavern. He was too rich a character to leave behind in Edinburgh and I'm glad we've seen him so many times save Jamie's ass and be a valuable asset to the Story.

Lastly, I find as this season drags on, that my viewing notes are getting shorter and shorter and shorter because what can one say about Claire wandering around the jungle for what felt like half the episode? I remember my notes for The Wedding were like three pages front and back, and now it's barely a page. This season, from about The First Wife onward, makes me actually miss Paris from last season, and that's saying a lot. At least we had great sets and characters that were compelling. Then again, BJR was still alive so that hung like a wet, rotty fart over everything so...I'm conflicted right now. I miss Scotland, the Clans, and all that intrigue. This season feels so contrived and lacking depth.

[Anothermi]

I think I can just refer to @gingerella's post above and declare: "WHAT! SHE! SAID!" for most of this episode. But I wrote a few notes at the beginning—before I started sitting there shaking my head for the rest of it. So here are my first reactions: 

GIVE.ME.A.BREAK!

Her bundle of worldly goods washes up on the exact same spot that Claire does??? Hogwash. There must have been a shuttle that picked up her goods and left them for her at her destination (she should have caught the shuttle too!). Really Show!?! Glad I got my Olympic-level eye rolling warm up started at the end of last episode. 

THEN she manages to get a fire started (yay Claire—no small feat) but doesn't think she'll need to make another one so she burns all her “kindling” with her bustle thingy. <mutters to self she's delirious from lack of water over and over—but to no avail>

Then my brain shut down. 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

Where did the 'Claudel' come from though? Was that the French name he gave Jamie when first they met in Paris? I know Jamie took to calling him 'Fergus' straight away so I forgot what his real name had been.

Correct. I looked it up. Jamie introduces Fergus to Claire and then mentions that his real name is Claudel but they both agreed that it wasn't "manly" enough. 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

The mention of 'A bandawe' and Claire's remembrance of the utterings of the crazy sister in Edinburgh.

I did utter a small "ohhhh" at that point. But I commend the show for including the flash-back to the scene where the seer foresaw it in Claire's future. I'm not sure I would have put two and two together for that mention. 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

The mention of a 'Chinaman and many sailors',

I worried that it might be the fellow from the Porpoise. There was one Chinese man on each ship. I was not ready for more DRAMA! Turns out I was not ready for NO DRAMA either. This was not my favourite variety-show episode. 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

Yi Tien Chao making turtle soup with so much Sherry in it that Claire gets drunk. That's a stretch because soup usually burns off the alcohol to leave just the taste but again, Show is asking me to believe she got tipsy on soup so I've no choice but to go with it

Good catch! (Both you and Yi Tien Chao). But then I remember the beautiful turtle shown during the opening bits and was very sad. 

Perhaps the Show is asking us to believe that Yi Tien's cooking is so bad that he dumps the bottle of sherry into the soup after it is cooked to mask how awful it tastes? Ok. I don't actually believe that. From this episode alone I can't credit the Show for putting any thought into it AT ALL!

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

I liked the Rule of 3's - I'd never heard that before and it's something I will remember: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. Good to know Show. But if you knew that, Show, then why didn't Claire save the raft, save the extra bump stuffing, and start marking trees so she wouldn't get lost?!? Okay, I'll drop it already.

This is a gripe I have with the Show runner's and writers. Why have they fallen into the trope of the dumb female who can't figure out what to do? Actually they swing back and forth between 'Claire is clever and resourceful' and 'Claire is clueless'. Claire was raised by an explorer Uncle. She learned how to cook over an open fire and must have learned how to avoid dangerous bugs and other animals as well—due to the locations he took her. (The one shown in her memory was in a desert like location, but they travelled all over.)

Claire knows enough to create shade for herself and drink dew (or rain) caught in a leaf, but not to make a plan when faced with "Uncharted" territory? Is her curiosity compartmentalized into medical-related only? 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

what can one say about Claire wandering around the jungle for what felt like half the episode?

It was 2-3 minutes shy of one third of the entire episode! It felt long because she kept coming across as an idiot! Do something smart—do a bunch of stupid things. 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

"Leonard canna arrest a man he canna find..." Again, famous last words Jamie...So of course Leonard is going to find him.

Of Course he is. AND he is going to be the new bad guy. Too bad. I liked him. I guess the military brings out the worst in a man. 

The one thing I noticed that you haven't mentioned was the time the show gave to Mamasita noticing the zipper on Claire's corset. She fingered it, but didn't look surprised, just looked back at Claire. No further reference was made, but if the show HAS any sense I would think this bit will come up again—at the very least in "previouslies".

Edited June 21, 2021 by Anothermi

[QuinnM]

54 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

Then my brain shut down. 

I came on to say I wish I had something to add.  But I don’t.  And it may be PTSD but even after I watched this a second time … this is the second wasted episode.

[Camera One]

The geography of the island confused me.  So did she walk all the way from one side of Hispaniola to the other? 

Did Willoughby hike all the way to the goats?  And then Mamacita followed him to the beach?  The beach looked like a long way off, but I guess it was a more straight-forward route since Claire didn't go astray at all, unlike her previous wanderings?   

3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Claire was raised by an explorer Uncle. She learned how to cook over an open fire and must have learned how to avoid dangerous bugs and other animals as well—due to the locations he took her. (The one shown in her memory was in a desert like location, but they travelled all over.)

Claire knows enough to create shade for herself and drink dew (or rain) caught in a leaf, but not to make a plan when faced with "Uncharted" territory? Is her curiosity compartmentalized into medical-related only? 

Yes!  I'm surprised she didn't walk along the coast to look for a freshwater stream.  

On the plus side, this episode made me look up some tips on How to Survive a Shipwreck.  Surprise, it does not include wandering around aimlessly in the jungle.

Though in hindsight, as much as I liked the goat lady, I forgot exactly why she needed to escape the British ship right away.  Even if she had floated to a settlement (Grand Turk)... there was a very small chance she could have found a way to warn Jaime considering she had no idea where his ship was.  If anything, she should get to Jamaica first and scope the place out and keep a watch-out for Jaime's arrival.  But it really was convenient of Jaime to shipwreck right on her doorstep, within walking distance, too.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Camera One