S03.E11: Uncharted

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, Anothermi said:

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

The mention of 'A bandawe' and Claire's remembrance of the utterings of the crazy sister in Edinburgh.

I did utter a small "ohhhh" at that point. But I commend the show for including the flash-back to the scene where the seer foresaw it in Claire's future. I'm not sure I would have put two and two together for that mention. 

You know, I didn’t see it as her foretelling Claire’s future but you’re probably right. I thought she was really distressed the way she was ranting “A Bandewe” like she was getting very agitated. So maybe she was both foretelling Claire’s near future and also was agitated because she knows of that place and knows how dangerous or evil it is, since it’s likely she was killled or sacrificed there...?

7 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Good catch! (Both you and Yi Tien Chao). But then I remember the beautiful turtle shown during the opening bits and was very sad. 

Funny you said this because I did an expedited re watch this afternoon (because let’s face it, watching this episode twice is enough to make you want to a brick through your TV) and as soon as I saw the opening I realized the turtle was connected to his fate as soup, and then I realized that pretty most of the recent opening ‘amuse bouche’ end up being something bad that happens but I don’t know if that’s every episode or only lately that they represent something bad happening. I can remember the wheel pin being removed in Paris where Mary is raped, the wig falling off the table stand when the Duke is beheaded, the printed credits when Jamie’s print shop goes up in flames...is it always a bad thing that it’s foretelling? I haven’t the energy to look up them all...

7 hours ago, Anothermi said:

This is a gripe I have with the Show runner's and writers. Why have they fallen into the trope of the dumb female who can't figure out what to do? Actually they swing back and forth between 'Claire is clever and resourceful' and 'Claire is clueless'. Claire was raised by an explorer Uncle. She learned how to cook over an open fire and must have learned how to avoid dangerous bugs and other animals as well—due to the locations he took her. (The one shown in her memory was in a desert like location, but they travelled all over.)

Claire knows enough to create shade for herself and drink dew (or rain) caught in a leaf, but not to make a plan when faced with "Uncharted" territory? Is her curiosity compartmentalized into medical-related only? 

See, until I read your comment above, I had forgotten that Claire was exotic locations digs with her uncle, so yes, she ought to know a lot more about how to take care of herself in such situations. The lack of character continuity is astounding this season. Claire is acting stupid and air headed and Jamie is acting irrational and impulsive. They weren’t stupid people the first two seasons, passionate yet out of their element at times, sure, but never really stupid like this season.

7 hours ago, Anothermi said:

The one thing I noticed that you haven't mentioned was the time the show gave to Mamasita noticing the zipper on Claire's corset. She fingered it, but didn't look surprised, just looked back at Claire. No further reference was made, but if the show HAS any sense I would think this bit will come up again—at the very least in "previouslies".

@Anothermi, I did notice that little bit and then it was dropped. I wonder if Mamacita is also a time traveler and thus she knows what a zipper is. That is all I can make of that bit, but it seems like they’ve said farewell to her so...

6 hours ago, QuinnM said:

I came on to say I wish I had something to add.  But I don’t.  And it may be PTSD but even after I watched this a second time … this is the second wasted episode.

You took one for the team, and for that we appreciate your efforts ma’am! 

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

The geography of the island confused me.  So did she walk all the way from one side of Hispaniola to the other? 

Did Willoughby hike all the way to the goats?  And then Mamacita followed him to the beach?  The beach looked like a long way off, but I guess it was a more straight-forward route since Claire didn't go astray at all, unlike her previous wanderings?   

I think we are all confused with the geography of the island. It seemed to have very divergent eco systems, sort of arid desert at the shoreline and then jungle as she walked farther in or across, but it’s not clear if the beach she washed up on is the same that Jamie was on. It looked the same, terrain wise, but maybe all the beaches were like that?

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

Though in hindsight, as much as I liked the goat lady, I forgot exactly why she needed to escape the British ship right away.  Even if she had floated to a settlement (Grand Turk)... there was a very small chance she could have found a way to warn Jaime considering she had no idea where his ship was.  If anything, she should get to Jamaica first and scope the place out and keep a watch-out for Jaime's arrival.  But it really was convenient of Jaime to shipwreck right on her doorstep, within walking distance, too.

This is all true of course. She thought by escaping the ship right away she could somehow get somewhere, where I don’t know, and get to Jamaica before Jamie so she could warn him, because, yanno, she was going to maybe hire a boat and row out to sea and suddenly find Jamie’s ship, climb aboard somehow, and get them to divert the ship elsewhere, all under the guise of not already being seen by Jamaican authorities. Because, yanno, magical 🤔 thinking...

[Camera One]

Quote

the time the show gave to Mamasita noticing the zipper on Claire's corset. She fingered it, but didn't look surprised, just looked back at Claire. 

I just assumed she was simply highly suspicious of Claire.  She wasn't curious; she just wanted Claire gone.

I definitely didn't want to spend another episode with Mamacita and the Father, but the whole finding Jaime and that reunion felt rushed, just as much as the first half of the episode felt like it was moving at the pace of soil creep.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Camera One

[QuinnM]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

This is all true of course. She thought by escaping the ship right away she could somehow get somewhere, where I don’t know, and get to Jamaica before Jamie so she could warn him, because, yanno, she was going to maybe hire a boat and row out to sea and suddenly find Jamie’s ship, climb aboard somehow, and get them to divert the ship elsewhere, all under the guise of not already being seen by Jamaican authorities. Because, yanno, magical 🤔 thinking...

Ok, I actually do have input.

Claire told the goat lady that she was afraid that they would use her to capture Jaime.  That they would hold her hostage.  This is actually one of the few times since the tropical heat hit that she shows critical thought.  If they do NOT have her Jamie will move heaven and earth NOT to be captured.  If they do have her he will march on board like it’s his new home.  So at the very minimum what she can do to keep him safe is not be on that ship under the control of Left Tenant Leonard.

[SassAndSnacks]

 

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

Stuff I didn't like or thought was really, really stupid:

As I said, getting to the end involves a lot of stupidity.  A freaking lot of stupidity.  Who the F are these people?  These are not my loves from Seasons 1, 2 and early 3.  Highlanders of the Caribbean is no fun.  

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

I know Jamie wants to be That Guy, who always saves the day, but maybe he ought to dial it back a wee bit and he'll have better luck in the shit storm department going forward.

Ugh, you sadly raise some very strong points.  Fash, Claire.  You should definitely fash.  

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

I find as this season drags on, that my viewing notes are getting shorter and shorter and shorter because what can one say about Claire wandering around the jungle for what felt like half the episode?

I think I timed it once, and she spends a full quarter of the episode traipsing around the island.  I get it already.  It's hot and desolate and she's stranded.  That time could have been much better spent telling us something else.  I don't know...maybe we could have witnessed the terrible storm that just happened to wash Jamie and Co. to the EXACT same island.  

I think I said that Creme de Menthe is the weakest of the season and the series as a whole.  Was I wrong?  Is it this one?

17 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Why have they fallen into the trope of the dumb female who can't figure out what to do? Actually they swing back and forth between 'Claire is clever and resourceful' and 'Claire is clueless'. Claire was raised by an explorer Uncle. She learned how to cook over an open fire and must have learned how to avoid dangerous bugs and other animals as well—due to the locations he took her. (The one shown in her memory was in a desert like location, but they travelled all over.)

Claire knows enough to create shade for herself and drink dew (or rain) caught in a leaf, but not to make a plan when faced with "Uncharted" territory? Is her curiosity compartmentalized into medical-related only? 

LOVE this observation and commentary.  They are doing my girl a serious disservice.  Very first episode, they set the tone with her being resourceful, using what is on hand, adapting to situations, etc.  And now that woman is gone?  Is she too far removed now from her upbringing and war years to call back on those skills?  Were the 60s too cushy for her?  

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

definitely didn't want to spend another episode with Mamacita and the Father, but the whole finding Jaime and that reunion felt rushed, just as much as the first half of the episode felt like it was moving at the pace of soil creep.

Agree.  The Fergus/Marsali wedding could have been given more time, as well as the Jamie/Claire reunion.  I didn't feel invested in either, which is contrary to how I've felt about their other reunions and other weddings that have occurred on the show.  When Jamie told Father Fogden that Fergus' last name was Fraser, I was kind like "meh."  

 

[Anothermi]

13 hours ago, gingerella said:

You know, I didn’t see it as her foretelling Claire’s future but you’re probably right. I thought she was really distressed the way she was ranting “A Bandewe” like she was getting very agitated.

Well, I only wrote "foretelling Claire's future" because that's kinda how it was presented. Claire asked the man what she was saying and he responded as though she'd asked for the "seer's" advice by requesting money. That was how the show portrayed it. But because we know of the woman's skeleton-in-a-cave from the Claire/Joe scene it makes more sense the way you phrase it.

14 hours ago, gingerella said:

(because let’s face it, watching this episode twice is enough to make you want to a brick through your TV)

This deserves it own space for:  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

14 hours ago, gingerella said:

I realized that pretty most of the recent opening ‘amuse bouche’ end up being something bad that happens but I don’t know if that’s every episode or only lately that they represent something bad happening. I can remember the wheel pin being removed in Paris where Mary is raped, the wig falling off the table stand when the Duke is beheaded, the printed credits when Jamie’s print shop goes up in flames...is it always a bad thing that it’s foretelling? I haven’t the energy to look up them all...

THIS is a very interesting observation. This wasn't in the "previously on" section, but during the opening credits. But I would have missed most things at the beginning anyway—thinking they weren't important. I'll have to watch with a keener eye next time. I think I can maintain enough interest to get through the opening credits of each episode!

14 hours ago, gingerella said:

They weren’t stupid people the first two seasons, passionate yet out of their element at times, sure, but never really stupid like this season.

Well—Jamie was always a bit impulsive, but he had level-headed support around him (Murtagh!!!) which sometimes made him think twice. 

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

I just assumed she was simply highly suspicious of Claire.  She wasn't curious; she just wanted Claire gone.

That suspiciousness was provided for us viewers from the moment Mamacita showed up on screen. And it never wavered. MOST shows don't make a point of highlighting something just to repeat what they already—and have continued to— show us. Of course, if so much of this season is time filling— then, sure— it was an unnecessary repetition used to pad out the episode. Given that the last episode that was not irrational was A. Malcolm (E06 which is less than half of the Season!) there is a high likelihood that it was filler. 

5 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

When Jamie told Father Fogden that Fergus' last name was Fraser, I was kind like "meh."  

I had managed to tell my screen "Fraser" at least 4-5 times—gradually increasing to a shout—before Jamie opened his mouth. THAT was NOT a suspenseful moment and should not have been treated like one. 🙄

[mythoughtis]

Fergus has  been in Scotland for over 20 years.  He resided on Fraser land for a great deal of them.  Wouldn’t he have adopted the Fraser surname fairly early in that time?   Wasn’t that more or less tradition when you joined the clan?  This cannot be the first time in his adult life that he would have been asked for a surname and it’s not like anyone would ask for a birth certificate or ID to prove it when he gave them one.  Jamie has used aliases several times now after all.  
 

[Scarlett45]

19 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Fergus has  been in Scotland for over 20 years.  He resided on Fraser land for a great deal of them.  Wouldn’t he have adopted the Fraser surname fairly early in that time?   Wasn’t that more or less tradition when you joined the clan?  This cannot be the first time in his adult life that he would have been asked for a surname and it’s not like anyone would ask for a birth certificate or ID to prove it when he gave them one.  Jamie has used aliases several times now after all.  
 

I could see that Fergus had never been asked for a surname. Is Fergus literate? I don't think so. Throughout his life he has been assisting the Fraser family on their land and then helping Jamie with his smuggling/printing business- he has not done anything that would require a "government" name (like get married, or buy property or conduct contracts). So there are many that may have assumed he was a "Fraser" and if he used the name, no one would think anything of it, but it's probably a case where no one had ever officially told him it was his to use. 

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could see that Fergus had never been asked for a surname. Is Fergus literate? I don't think so. Throughout his life he has been assisting the Fraser family on their land and then helping Jamie with his smuggling/printing business- he has not done anything that would require a "government" name (like get married, or buy property or conduct contracts). So there are many that may have assumed he was a "Fraser" and if he used the name, no one would think anything of it, but it's probably a case where no one had ever officially told him it was his to use. 

To further expound on the above, Fergus was a nobody, one of the many hiding in the shadows so to speak. He had no family of his own, at least that he was aware of, and he did Jamie's bidding though Jamie thought of him as a son. And as Scarlet said, he was likely probably never in a position to have to give a surname up until he married Marsali. However, I do believe he was literate. I'm not sure we ever heard him tell Jamie that he learned to read at the brothel, but he did steal letters from BPC so that Jamie could read them, so he would have had to been able to read in order to know which letters to steal, yes? I assume he is literate. He also works with Jamie at his printing press and ferries round illicit propaganda pamphlets and I would assume he knows what he is carrying around and delivering.