S02.E13: The Life & Lies of L. Ron Hubbard

[2727]

Quote

Leah and Mike lead a round-table discussion on the life of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, whose word in the church is law and, if to be believed, will lead the parishioner to personal salvation and total freedom.

I mean ... as much of a liar as Hubbard was, his second marriage was bigamous so in fact wasn't legal, right?

Edited November 15, 2017 by 2727

[Carolina Girl]

11 hours ago, 2727 said:

I mean ... as much of a liar as Hubbard was, his second marriage was bigamous so in fact wasn't legal, right?

Not unless he had another marriage ceremony AFTER the divorce from Margaret was final.  Which I doubt he did.  

Mutli-million-dollar mansions in the desert for when LRH comes back?  Laying out clothes for him every morning and every night?  Damn.....they're pretty much a groupthink Mrs. Danvers!  And you're allowed a respite of 21 years after your death to come back to Earth and rejoin the SeaOrg to fulfill your billion-dollar contract?

As Rinder pointed out, he's already 10 years late.  

[LegalParrot81]

After listening to Going Clear, I couldn't believe that people were actually sucked in by this misogynistic, narcissist.  That was a book I had to listen to in stages, LRH and his philosophies, actions, attitudes everything just really pissed me off.  

He was truly a con man, whose con is still be perpetuated and continues to rip people off daily.

[frenchtoast]

I gotta say, every time they show a picture of LRH smiling or talking and then smiling, my gut, instinctual, lizard-brain response is flee. Get out of here. Danger! Danger! Danger! He is so repellent. And then hearing the gory details shows those gut responses are sometimes accurate. 

I will say, and I wish it had been addressed, that the reason that he was able to succeed and that the cult continues is because there are others--like David Miscavige--in that organization that were also attracted to lording it over others, having power over groups of people. It seems others saw the same opportunity he did and got in and are enjoying the same gross abuse of power he enjoyed. In other words, I can see where such a person and group would attract those that find abusing power and people. Not to say that what Mike and Leah try to explain how others are sucked in is untrue. But I can see where others would fulfill its actual purpose.

[Cherrio]

50 minutes ago, frenchtoast said:

I gotta say, every time they show a picture of LRH smiling or talking and then smiling, my gut, instinctual, lizard-brain response is flee. Get out of here. Danger! Danger! Danger! He is so repellent. And then hearing the gory details shows those gut responses are sometimes accurate. 

I agree.  He was physically repulsive too.  I would of asked him if he can heal then why are his teeth rotten?

[iMonrey]

This was arguably the most damning episode yet, in terms of going straight for the jugular of L. Ron himself. Sadly, even assuming anyone in Scientology will have the guts to watch this show, they're so brainwashed and indoctrinated I'm sure they'll dismiss it all as lies. The government is lying, the Navy is lying, his own son was lying . . . it's all lies to discredit their deity. And, again, Scientology is not unique in that respect. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of facts to the contrary, or even logic.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This was arguably the most damning episode yet, in terms of going straight for the jugular of L. Ron himself. Sadly, even assuming anyone in Scientology will have the guts to watch this show, they're so brainwashed and indoctrinated I'm sure they'll dismiss it all as lies. The government is lying, the Navy is lying, his own son was lying . . . it's all lies to discredit their deity. And, again, Scientology is not unique in that respect. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of facts to the contrary, or even logic.

I'm not sure if it was Going Clear or another documentary I saw on TLC on Scientology, but the explanation for why the Government's records don't match LRH's fictional autobiography is that the Government went in and CHANGED all of LRH's records vis-a-vis his Naval service to smear him.  

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

Mutli-million-dollar mansions in the desert for when LRH comes back?  Laying out clothes for him every morning and every night?  Damn.....they're pretty much a groupthink Mrs. Danvers!  And you're allowed a respite of 21 years after your death to come back to Earth and rejoin the SeaOrg to fulfill your billion-dollar contract?

Is LRH the Scientology version of Elijah?

I'm always struck by how pop culture has no understanding of science. LRH merely put the word in the title of Dianetics and that was enough for a lay audience. I'm not saying your average person needs to intimately familiar with the scientific method, but there should be at least a vague understanding of what in entails so that people aren't as swayed by obvious malarkey. 

[juliet73]

35 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm not sure if it was Going Clear or another documentary I saw on TLC on Scientology, but the explanation for why the Government's records don't match LRH's fictional autobiography is that the Government went in and CHANGED all of LRH's records vis-a-vis his Naval service to smear him.  

I saw something similar, but if I remember correctly, LRH's records and medals, etc were changed/different for his protection by the gov't.  LOL! I think Tommy Davidson (Ann Archer's son) is the one that tried to explain away the inconsistencies.

This episode was awesome!  I hope this show never ends until Scientology is annihilated!

[LegalParrot81]

44 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm not sure if it was Going Clear or another documentary I saw on TLC on Scientology, but the explanation for why the Government's records don't match LRH's fictional autobiography is that the Government went in and CHANGED all of LRH's records vis-a-vis his Naval service to smear him.  

I love the photos of all his fake medals.  Medals he either made up or stole from some other country.  

[barbedwire]

Good grief - literally.  Poor Ramina (sp?) knowing Miriam's mom, counting her as a good friend, and never knowing the abuse her daughter went through.  But then again, Rinder worked with Mimi's mom and never knew the woman had kids!  Loved hearing from Hanna - one of the first to get out and someone who knew LRH (Lying Repulsive Heartless).  And how her and her husband help other escapees. Also heartbreaking to hear while Leah's daughter, her only child, was learning to walk Leah was working then auditing until midnight or 1:00.  This whole cult is way messed up!  Thank you Leah.

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, frenchtoast said:

I gotta say, every time they show a picture of LRH smiling or talking and then smiling, my gut, instinctual, lizard-brain response is flee. Get out of here. Danger! Danger! Danger! He is so repellent.

That mouth of his, with the terrible teeth and that weird lower lip--gross. 

I sometimes criticize myself for being so judgmental but in this case it definitely would have kept me out of the clutches of Scientology, so I can't say it's necessarily a bad thing.

[Carolina Girl]

25 minutes ago, barbedwire said:

Good grief - literally.  Poor Ramina (sp?) knowing Miriam's mom, counting her as a good friend, and never knowing the abuse her daughter went through.  But then again, Rinder worked with Mimi's mom and never knew the woman had kids!  Loved hearing from Hanna - one of the first to get out and someone who knew LRH (Lying Repulsive Heartless).  And how her and her husband help other escapees. Also heartbreaking to hear while Leah's daughter, her only child, was learning to walk Leah was working then auditing until midnight or 1:00.  This whole cult is way messed up!  Thank you Leah.

Hana is compelling.  She was one of the first members of SeaOrg and rose through its ranks to become rather high.  For her to abandon CO$ speaks VOLUMES.  

I think there is at least one more episode next week - one where Leah and Rinder sit down and answer questions.  I wasn't sure from the previews.  If there is a Season Three (and why would there NOT be - these vipers are still around!), I hope that she is able to bring on a darling woman named Spanky, who was John Travolta's handler and who was subjected to the brutality that was the Rehabilitation Project Force at the Blue Hotel in Los Angeles.  She was close as hell to Travolta before she was imprisoned - he even went to her wedding.  But after she was in RPF, Travolta never even asked what happened to her. That's why I won't go see him, Tiny Tom or any movie featuring a CO$ celebrity - I feel if I do, I am somehow enabling this monstrous organization.  

[Auntie Anxiety]

I was walking my dog today and saw a small piece of metal lying on the ground and figured that LRH had been there and a piece of shrapnel just happened to fall out of his leg. ;-) Come on, Scientologists! How can you believe that stuff?  

[toodles]

5 hours ago, Cherrio said:

I agree.  He was physically repulsive too.  I would of asked him if he can heal then why are his teeth rotten?

Seriously.  I think he must have been a tobacco chewer.

[humbleopinion]

Quentin's suicide was truly sad...

[ramble]

I understand charisma and personal magnetism. I understand longing for something, not even knowing what that something is, and a psychopath telling you exactly what you want to hear. I was in a relationship with a charismatic psychopath for several years and I saw up close the way people were weirdly drawn to him. (Me too until he revealed his real self and began his abuse.) I get it. I get it in a way I never could have before that relationship. 

But, big but, I don’t see that coming from LRH. He doesn’t seem personally engaging. I don’t see him as mesmerizing. Does it not translate through video? My personal demon was charming enough in videos (work stuff) that people sought him out. Am I missing it? Is it because I despise CO$ so much I can’t put on LRH rose colored glasses? It truly, truly baffles me. 

On another note, go Leah and Mike! I love how determined they are about exposing all the lies and abuse of CO$. I feel like they seem more and more determined with each show. I appreciated how the biographer was so disgusted with LRH and called him out for who he was. I bet he’s been heavily fair-gamed.  The lady who was an original sea org member made me smile with her verbal agreements with everything everyone was saying. It was like she wanted to emphasize it all. It was good to hear there’s been a network of some kind to help escapees of this cult. I imagine it’s a long and difficult translation. 

[BabyVegas]

13 hours ago, frenchtoast said:

I gotta say, every time they show a picture of LRH smiling or talking and then smiling, my gut, instinctual, lizard-brain response is flee. Get out of here. Danger! Danger! Danger! He is so repellent. And then hearing the gory details shows those gut responses are sometimes accurate. 

That smile is serial killer 101. Especially when he was talking about never having had a second wife. It straight up gave me chills.

I'm really glad they break up the interview episodes with round table episodes. The interview episodes are incredibly important, but it's nice to get a break from the sheer horror they inspire. Plus I feel like I always learn a ton with these roundtables.

[Nancypants]

17 hours ago, LegalParrot81 said:

I love the photos of all his fake medals.  Medals he either made up or stole from some other country.  

Speaking of Fake Medals..Tom Cruise wearing that big plastic "Medal of Valor" ...looks like he won Third place in the neighborhood swim meet.

[ElsieH]

Wouldn't it be funny if someone did show up claiming to be LRH returned so they could live in that big house? Of course, they would have to come up with a good reason for being 10 years late. What would Miscavige do with that, I wonder?

[Nancypants]

6 minutes ago, ElsieH said:

Wouldn't it be funny if someone did show up claiming to be LRH returned so they could live in that big house? Of course, they would have to come up with a good reason for being 10 years late. What would Miscavige do with that, I wonder?

OMG, I am Totally Doing That.! Free lodging!

[SunnyBeBe]

Riveting!  Just riveting.  I have always thought the man seemed off, but, now that I see just how destructive and dangerous he was, it takes on another layer of creepy.  So, I wonder how the COS has addressed that Hubbard's death certificate says he had mental impairment or dementia.  Hmmm.......did he bring that on himself?

Okay.  Please don't think that I'm losing it, but, did anyone else observe a strange kind of visual shadow appear during this episode?  It was like a ball of color or light that started on the left and moved across the top one-third of the tv screen?  It happened at least 6 times. Was it just my tv or cable messing up?  It didn't happen on any other show that night and didn't happen during the commercials.  Was there a glitch in their lighting or cameras?  I must say it creeped me out a little.  Of all episodes......Hmmm......

[Nancypants]

I saw that too. It was the ghost of LRH.

[SunnyBeBe]

47 minutes ago, Nancypants said:

I saw that too. It was the ghost of LRH.

Really?  If you are serious, thanks for confirming.  I didn't think it was Hubbard, but, maybe one of his deceased and pissed off relatives.  If it was Hubbard, he would have shut it down, right? lol Oh, and Hubbard couldn't appear, since that group has been labeled as the enemy now, right? So, he couldn't go near them.  lol

Edited November 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[marny]

One of my favorite things about this show is seeing which things the CoS attempts to dispute at the breaks for commercials.  In the episode about the money and sales tactics, they disputed nothing.  And in this episode, the only thing they disputed was the contention about Scientology being anti-homosexuality (the tone scale stuff)-- despite the proof of it being in the words of the texts.  Which to me means they are tacitly admitting that all of the other info about LRH being full of shit is true.  By being so aggressive about trying to (unsuccessfully IMO) dispute the stories and people who appear on this show, their silence speaks volumes.

[humbleopinion]

Wonder if these episodes are being shown in other countries where this cult also has followers?

Would like to have Leah and Ron highlight their stories on future episodes to show how many heads this snake has....

[gunderda]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Riveting!  Just riveting.  I have always thought the man seemed off, but, now that I see just how destructive and dangerous he was, it takes on another layer of creepy.  So, I wonder how the COS has addressed that Hubbard's death certificate says he had mental impairment or dementia.  Hmmm.......did he bring that on himself?

Okay.  Please don't think that I'm losing it, but, did anyone else observe a strange kind of visual shadow appear during this episode?  It was like a ball of color or light that started on the left and moved across the top one-third of the tv screen?  It happened at least 6 times. Was it just my tv or cable messing up?  It didn't happen on any other show that night and didn't happen during the commercials.  Was there a glitch in their lighting or cameras?  I must say it creeped me out a little.  Of all episodes......Hmmm......

I think it was just a camera effect ;) 

[SunnyBeBe]

7 minutes ago, gunderda said:

I think it was just a camera effect ;) 

Thank you.  That's what I suspected, but, isn't it odd? I haven't see it before on this show or any other show that I can recall. 

[italianguy626]

I remember reading Bare Faced Messiah back in the mid 90s when I first encountered Scamatology. There was an article in Wired magazine back then about how Scamatology was attempting to take on the Internet, particularly the Usenet group alt.religion.scientology and then attempting to suppress the OTIII materials that were made public as part of the Fishman Affidavit in the trial of Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz. This led me to the Usenet group and from there I went down the rabbit hole.

Lots have been asking about Hubbard's appearance and how people could be attracted to him. In both Bare Faced Messiah and Going Clear, it is noted that Hubbard had a huge amount of charisma and naturally attracted people to him and was quite the ladies man in his youth. Maybe he was somewhat attractive when he was a younger man, but we don't have many pictures/video of him.

I strongly believe he was a psychopath, and so is Miss Cabbage. Here is a quick read from a psychologist on how to identify a psychopath and differentiate that individual from a sociopath. Hubbard and Miss Cabbage fit the psychopath profile to a "T". Here is a sentence from that link that jumped out at me:

Quote

You’d be a first-rate cult leader, corporate raider, or dictator.

[jrlr]

On 11/15/2017 at 7:19 AM, Carolina Girl said:

Not unless he had another marriage ceremony AFTER the divorce from Margaret was final.  Which I doubt he did.  

Mutli-million-dollar mansions in the desert for when LRH comes back?  Laying out clothes for him every morning and every night?  Damn.....they're pretty much a groupthink Mrs. Danvers!  And you're allowed a respite of 21 years after your death to come back to Earth and rejoin the SeaOrg to fulfill your billion-dollar contract?

As Rinder pointed out, he's already 10 years late.  

Thank you for "groupthink Mrs. Danvers" - I'm still laughing!

[Whimsy]

4 hours ago, ElsieH said:

Wouldn't it be funny if someone did show up claiming to be LRH returned so they could live in that big house? Of course, they would have to come up with a good reason for being 10 years late. What would Miscavige do with that, I wonder?

I wondered why that hadn't happened yet but it's quite simple.  Miscavige knows it's bullshit.  If anyone tries to make that claim he'd most likely just kill them off.

21 hours ago, LegalParrot81 said:

I love the photos of all his fake medals.  Medals he either made up or stole from some other country.  

Nothing pisses me off than seeing these yahoos parading around in their fake uniforms and rows of fake medals.  Every time I see a photo or video of these people in their uniforms I literally see red. They do not deserve to even be sort of associated with our armed services.  Why can't people in this fake religion realize that there is only sea org because LRH couldn't hack it in the real military and had to make this crackpot "religion" in order to make himself feel important. 

[AmyA]

18 hours ago, toodles said:

Seriously.  I think he must have been a tobacco chewer.

He was a heavy, heavy smoker. And ironically, a drug user.  He had Vistaril, a psych drug, in his system when he died. (Source: http://www.xenu.net/archive/hubbardcoroner/)  Such a disgusting, lying hypocrite. 

The way he speaks really creeps me out, and not just because I know what a piece of shit he was.  He just sounds so sinister to me.  Here is an audio recording of him explaining the history of Xenu. He uses such strange phrases and annunciations.  

 

Sidenote: this is the first time I have ever posted links and/or videos, hope I did it right!  

[Carolina Girl]

5 hours ago, Nancypants said:

Speaking of Fake Medals..Tom Cruise wearing that big plastic "Medal of Valor" ...looks like he won Third place in the neighborhood swim meet.

I love that - "Valor"?  These twits DO know he didn't REALLY fly that F-14 into battle in "Top Gun" - don't they?

[Carolina Girl]

39 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I wondered why that hadn't happened yet but it's quite simple.  Miscavige knows it's bullshit.  If anyone tries to make that claim he'd most likely just kill them off.

Nothing pisses me off than seeing these yahoos parading around in their fake uniforms and rows of fake medals.  Every time I see a photo or video of these people in their uniforms I literally see red. They do not deserve to even be sort of associated with our armed services.  Why can't people in this fake religion realize that there is only sea org because LRH couldn't hack it in the real military and had to make this crackpot "religion" in order to make himself feel important. 

I've often wondered if LRH's insistence of the SeaOrg members dressing in essentially U.S. Navy uniforms had something to do with his being removed from command from his Naval vessel.  He was deemed unfit to command after he discharged his ordinance on an island off the coast of Mexico, observed by a Mexican naval garrison stationed on am adjoining island.  LRH was summoned to a tribunal in San Diego and relieved.  The "Fitness Report" by the Rear Admiral stated as follows:

Quote

 "Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgement, leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results. He is believed to have been sincere in his efforts to make his ship efficient and ready. Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised.  (Source: L. Ron Hubbard fitness report, 29 May 1943-7 July 1943)

He was a Naval washout.  But as the "Admiral" of SeaOrg - he could probably satisfy his demented fantasy of being a Naval commander.

[gunderda]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Thank you.  That's what I suspected, but, isn't it odd? I haven't see it before on this show or any other show that I can recall. 

Yea it was a little weird. I thought it was going to transition into another scene or something and then it didn't... (the one time i noticed but I was on my phone a lot during the show) and thought "huh.. that was an odd camera effect for no reason" 

[buttercupia]

55 minutes ago, gunderda said:

"huh.. that was an odd camera effect for no reason" 

I think it was a lens flare from an overhead lighting fixture.

[iMonrey]

Quote

But, big but, I don’t see that coming from LRH. He doesn’t seem personally engaging. I don’t see him as mesmerizing. Does it not translate through video? My personal demon was charming enough in videos (work stuff) that people sought him out. Am I missing it? Is it because I despise CO$ so much I can’t put on LRH rose colored glasses? It truly, truly baffles me. 

Assuming you weren't born into the cult, it's the same as any other. It doesn't start with LRH himself, it starts with people who lure you in. Maybe friends or relatives or just someone you meet passing by the church. They latch onto people who are searching for something and take advantage of them. So all that validation and promise of higher purpose intoxicates them. By the time they ever get around to seeing any videos of LRH they're already so brain-washed they aren't giving much thought to how much charisma or good looks he does or doesn't have. In other words it's not LRH himself during people into this cult, it's his minions and followers.

[SunnyBeBe]

LRH reminds me of a cartoon character. Sort of  a cross between villains The Penguin and Joker. (Scooby Doo Joker) 

Edited November 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[frenchtoast]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Assuming you weren't born into the cult, it's the same as any other. It doesn't start with LRH himself, it starts with people who lure you in. Maybe friends or relatives or just someone you meet passing by the church. They latch onto people who are searching for something and take advantage of them. So all that validation and promise of higher purpose intoxicates them. By the time they ever get around to seeing any videos of LRH they're already so brain-washed they aren't giving much thought to how much charisma or good looks he does or doesn't have. In other words it's not LRH himself during people into this cult, it's his minions and followers.

I would also think it's the book(s), too. I remember you could buy those books without joining CO$. You don't have to see or listen to LRH, you're just reading something that I have a feeling is written to make you feel you can fix what you feel is wrong with you. And seeing LRH or listening to him doesn't really come into play for a little while and by that point, you're already hooked. 

[TheGreenWave]

I cannot believe I didn't know about LRH's own son going on TV in 1982 (!!!) to discuss how his dad was a total fraud.  Over 30 years ago!  And people are still joining this cult!!!

[Almost 3000]

Is the son still around?

[Sew Sumi]

I'm pretty sure there was a caption that said he passed in the late 80's. 

[MamaMax]

On 11/16/2017 at 1:06 PM, Carolina Girl said:

I love that - "Valor"?  These twits DO know he didn't REALLY fly that F-14 into battle in "Top Gun" - don't they?

I think it's the medal the Wizard of Oz gave the Cowardly Lion.

[Lugal]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:53 PM, ramble said:

But, big but, I don’t see that coming from LRH. He doesn’t seem personally engaging. I don’t see him as mesmerizing. Does it not translate through video? My personal demon was charming enough in videos (work stuff) that people sought him out. Am I missing it? Is it because I despise CO$ so much I can’t put on LRH rose colored glasses? It truly, truly baffles me.

There's a powerful part of someone telling you what you want to hear, even if it's subconscious.  Modern life leaves many people feeling empty, alienated and atomized.  Then someone comes along and tells you that your life is important and you can help save the planet.  Then there's the auditing, where you can confess things that have been weighing on you, which can also help (the problem comes when you've run out of things to confess and then have to make up stuff or say what they want to hear just to make the session end).  It's a powerful enticement.

On 11/16/2017 at 6:21 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Okay.  Please don't think that I'm losing it, but, did anyone else observe a strange kind of visual shadow appear during this episode?  It was like a ball of color or light that started on the left and moved across the top one-third of the tv screen?  It happened at least 6 times. Was it just my tv or cable messing up?  It didn't happen on any other show that night and didn't happen during the commercials.  Was there a glitch in their lighting or cameras?  I must say it creeped me out a little.  Of all episodes......Hmmm......

I saw it and I thought it was a light or something, because it would move across to the right when the camera was panning to the left.

On 11/16/2017 at 11:19 AM, Carolina Girl said:

I've often wondered if LRH's insistence of the SeaOrg members dressing in essentially U.S. Navy uniforms had something to do with his being removed from command from his Naval vessel.  He was deemed unfit to command after he discharged his ordinance on an island off the coast of Mexico, observed by a Mexican naval garrison stationed on am adjoining island.  LRH was summoned to a tribunal in San Diego and relieved.

The Sea Org uniforms always make me think of the Yacht Club.  I think LRH always saw himself as a great "Navy Man" like John Paul Jones or David Farragut.  That incident that he was removed from command for nearly caused a war with Mexico:

Quote

On June 26th, instead of heading back to base, LRH ordered an unscheduled detour off the Coronado Islands, not knowing they belonged to Mexico.

Mexico had joined the war and had stationed navy personnel there to guard against Japanese subs. To their surprise, they came under fire… from the PC-815 [LRH's ship]. LRH was doing unsanctioned target practice for several hours, thinking the island was uninhabited.

It took the Mexicans a while to realize that they were receiving “friendly fire.” The US Navy was not happy, so LRH was sanctioned, demoted, and transferred to various positions till he resigned his commission in 1950.

[Monie]

On 11/15/2017 at 9:32 AM, frenchtoast said:

I gotta say, every time they show a picture of LRH smiling or talking and then smiling, my gut, instinctual, lizard-brain response is flee. Get out of here. Danger! Danger! Danger! He is so repellent. And then hearing the gory details shows those gut responses are sometimes accurate. 

I will say, and I wish it had been addressed, that the reason that he was able to succeed and that the cult continues is because there are others--like David Miscavige--in that organization that were also attracted to lording it over others, having power over groups of people. It seems others saw the same opportunity he did and got in and are enjoying the same gross abuse of power he enjoyed. In other words, I can see where such a person and group would attract those that find abusing power and people. Not to say that what Mike and Leah try to explain how others are sucked in is untrue. But I can see where others would fulfill its actual purpose.

He is a true creep...how he was able to attract his wives and procreate is beyond me!!

[Monie]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:21 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Riveting!  Just riveting.  I have always thought the man seemed off, but, now that I see just how destructive and dangerous he was, it takes on another layer of creepy.  So, I wonder how the COS has addressed that Hubbard's death certificate says he had mental impairment or dementia.  Hmmm.......did he bring that on himself?

Okay.  Please don't think that I'm losing it, but, did anyone else observe a strange kind of visual shadow appear during this episode?  It was like a ball of color or light that started on the left and moved across the top one-third of the tv screen?  It happened at least 6 times. Was it just my tv or cable messing up?  It didn't happen on any other show that night and didn't happen during the commercials.  Was there a glitch in their lighting or cameras?  I must say it creeped me out a little.  Of all episodes......Hmmm......

Yes I saw that....I think it was a hanging lamp, like a chandelier or something.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Over 30 years ago!  And people are still joining this cult!!!

Are they though? I'd be interested in hearing some hard data on that. I imagine the church's numbers are dwindling, rapidly, and consist almost entirely of lifers who were indoctrinated before the internet age, and their children. I have a hard time believing they have any new sign-ups with all the bad press about them out there. And that was before this show. Didn't Mike say he guessed their overall membership was down to somewhere around 20,000 - 50,000?

[Lugal]

I think they count everyone who they can get to take a three hundred dollar Improve Your Marriage class and then goes no further as "joining." For some reason I recall Mike saying about 40,000 with the vast majority in the US.

[funky-rat]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:56 PM, LegalParrot81 said:

I love the photos of all his fake medals.  Medals he either made up or stole from some other country.  

Or he bought them outright.  We've been trying to replace Mr. Funky's late dad's medals.  The govt won't do it - they say they were replaced once before.  So they told us to buy them.  Seriously.  They told us to get them online, or have someone get them at a PX for us.  Then they clamed one of the medals listed on all of his paperwork was one he didn't earn.  Tough luck.  If I have to buy his medals, then I'm buying it.  As far as I'm concerned, 5 pieces of paperwork from the USMC says he did.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:30 AM, italianguy626 said:

I remember reading Bare Faced Messiah back in the mid 90s when I first encountered Scamatology. There was an article in Wired magazine back then about how Scamatology was attempting to take on the Internet, particularly the Usenet group alt.religion.scientology and then attempting to suppress the OTIII materials that were made public as part of the Fishman Affidavit in the trial of Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz. This led me to the Usenet group and from there I went down the rabbit hole.

Lots have been asking about Hubbard's appearance and how people could be attracted to him. In both Bare Faced Messiah and Going Clear, it is noted that Hubbard had a huge amount of charisma and naturally attracted people to him and was quite the ladies man in his youth. Maybe he was somewhat attractive when he was a younger man, but we don't have many pictures/video of him.

I strongly believe he was a psychopath, and so is Miss Cabbage. Here is a quick read from a psychologist on how to identify a psychopath and differentiate that individual from a sociopath. Hubbard and Miss Cabbage fit the psychopath profile to a "T". Here is a sentence from that link that jumped out at me:

That pretty much confirmed my husband's ex boss is a sociopath.  Not surprised.

[PityFree]

6 hours ago, Lugal said:

I think they count everyone who they can get to take a three hundred dollar Improve Your Marriage class and then goes no further as "joining." For some reason I recall Mike saying about 40,000 with the vast majority in the US.

 I’ve been reading a bunch of Scientology books and what strikes me is that every single person seems to run in almost the exact same circles and knows the exact same prominent Scientologists.  In an actually large organization, I don’t think that situation would happen as much. (I realize that maybe there’s just some selection bias - maybe people with certain Scientology experiences had more of an opportunity to write a book, for example.)  To me that makes it appear to be a really small organization. Here’s hoping that there are even fewer members than people think!