S12.E19: Season Finale: Candle Wicks and Lunatics

[NeverLate]

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Tamra?  Sidney specifically said "please do not talk about me in public." That does not mean a constant televised relationship status, footage of you getting ready to go and see her, and mentioning her yet again with your status update.   I have friends who eschew social media. 

I didn't care for the dress Tamra wore to see her daughter, it was all kinds of wrong. The buildup was huge, them we see her and weird son  teeter off with flowers, the end. Makes me wonder if it happened, I can't find any pics.

Tamra doesn't get it, not.at.all.

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small voice* I liked Lydia's hair at the party.

I loved her dress, what's inside the dress,not so much.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

2 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

What a surprise: "Godly" woman that Lydia is, wants a designer baby. 

This is a brilliant observation, could Lydia and Noballman  (Nobleman ha!) have gotten the vasectomy so she can conceive thru assisted reproductive technology to get a girl baby ..... we have an expression for people like that, they are "above themselves " . They nauseate me. First a spread in Iceland, next one on designer babies. 

[thesupremediva1]

8 hours ago, film noire said:

I think Shannon is hard to watch, especially through female eyes. She's become a living checklist of what society hates in a woman; impetuous, drunk, gobby-mouthed, shrill, clumsy, big arsed, soft-bellied and raging.  She's the total negative package, when it comes to every ideal of American womanhood.

And I find alot of it repugnant to watch...but there's also a kind of primal rage in how she's acting that I've found (this season) intriguing;  a woman who is done with trying to jockey for position within the Most Fuckable Bitch in the Harem world, done trying to dry hump that hollow leg one more time, hoping it will finally give her an orgasm. It's as if she just read the fine print in her Woman Contract, and can't BELIEVE the riders she never stopped to take in before -- who the fuck WROTE this fucking deal for me? Where did I sign up for THIS shit? -- she's so angry at all of it, and I have a grudging respect for that.

She's displacing the anger everywhere it shouldn't go  -- throwing plates and screeching and demanding footnotes to conversations when she herself is, at best, a drinking buddy to the truth -- but as undignified as her expression of that anger has been, there's dignity in feeling that anger, when you're coming to grips with realizing your value was based on being visually consumable, not on being a complex human being.

So maybe it is normal - not evolved, not good, not smart, not mature, not decent, not kind -- but normal to react like that when you find out it was the lift of your ass and the nip in your waist that society cared about all along, and not a single thing that really mattered in the making of you as a person. Your only value skin deep; nothing more. How could the reacton to that -- the reaction to something so ugly -- be anything but ugly itself?

This post is genius. I have tons of empathy for Shannon. David had an affair when she was a size 2, so beyond getting healthy, why should she care if she's carrying around a few extra pounds? She's not 20 anymore.

Why isn't she allowed to be pissed? Why should she sit there calmly and let a woman speak who's done nothing but cut her down and spill lies about her husband and speak badly of her? Why can't she get upset?

It's like the worst possible thing a woman could do is be loud and angry, while not being a size 00. I think people forget the opposite side of the coin: Shannon tried it the world's way for years. She stuck vigilantly to the Woman Manual. And it fucked her over. So now she's not so interested in being told to calm down so she can look sweet and docile and small and contrite for the cameras. She doesn't have to be sorry for being upset or a little overweight. I'd be done with Lydia's crap and Peggy's double-talk too, and Vicki's constant lies and allegations. 

Shannon at least comes off as a real person. I've always liked her, even at her worst. I feel about her almost the same way I feel about Kelly, which is why I'm glad they're getting along now. 

[jaync]

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Yikes. Did Ryan always look like a serial killer?

Which Ryan?

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Dikko was having none of that when Peggy wanted to leave the party early....none of it!

He's thirstier than the tumbleweed on his wife's head.

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What bothered me the most is when she wanted to leave and he told her to stay and smile and she had that crazy stepford wife smile on and told everyone he told her to smile so she’s smiling.

They're both so creepy. Also, they acted like they were on a home shopping channel with the way they were pimping that ring. We get it, creepsters...you have the credit to rent buy expensive things, big whoop.

Edited November 14, 2017 by jaync

[Should Be Working]

This being the final episode of the season, it was no surprise that both of the soon-to-be-fired HWs (Peggy and Lydia) were performing their desperate last-minute redemption tours. Peggy apologizing to Meghan for the Iceland baby abandonment accusations, rewriting the history (despite aired video evidence to the contrary ) of her early encounters with Shannon, etc.  And Lydia profusely flattering Shannon ("You were so much fun in Iceland!" "You're now my favorite, what's happening!?). Sorry, losers, too little too late. 

But take solace Peggy, you've won, by acclamation, the consolation prize of "Worst Real Housewife in Bravo History." Most of the ladies relish and seek out maximum camera face time.  Making friends and enemies and working hard to preserve alliances, usually mindful of their popularity with the fans. Peggy never made any heartfelt attempt to participate in the show. Instead, she exerted the bare minimum effort, making abundantly clear by her body language and words that she hated every minute of it, disliked most of the cast. Would rather be anywhere else but on the show, if only master Diko would just cut her some slack. Most of the housewives are extroverted and very vocal types. Peggy is a deep deep introvert who still hasn't mastered the English language and its idioms and nuances after forty years. Despite the displays of wealth and class, she is still that peasant lady from the Armenian mountain village. Passive-aggressive to the max. The type who sulks alone and mutters dark nasty incantations at her abusers and lets her anger and resentment fester and grow. So I guess she'll actually welcome her release from this televised hell. Of course, Diko will be there to rub it in nightly, like a burning linement, for the next few decades.

As for Vicki the newly self-appointed relationship counselor, it's a bit problematic for a malignant narcissist of her standing to even attempt to dispense meaningful and helpful advice to others. For one thing, she's never had a mature, meaningful, and reciprocal adult relationship with anyone from which to draw actual experiential knowledge. And her well-honed magical thinking (whatever I say in the moment is true, regardless of any past events or utterances) is yet another obstacle to her success in this field. You could see Kelly biting her tongue while Vicki spewed her flowery advice: "Intimacy in marriage is essential. The minute me and Dom (?) stopped being intimate, our marriage started falling apart." (Hooking up with Girth the swamp thing back then probably didn't help much.) "Michael doesn't want to have sex with you? That's because he sees you as being untouchable. Dom used to see me that way too." (If by that you mean Dom didn't want to touch you, you have a valid point, but we know that's not what you meant.). I haven't been fond of Kelly until this season, when she finally shed her raging psycho act and introduced us to her crazy fun-loving no-verbal-filter persona, but I felt sorry for her having to endure all that utter bullshit from Vicki the Yenta.

[teapot]

4 minutes ago, Should Be Working said:

 I haven't been fond of Kelly until this season, when she finally shed her raging psycho act and introduced us to her crazy fun-loving no-verbal-filter persona, but I felt sorry for her having to endure all that utter bullshit from Vicki the Yenta.

I haven't been particularly *fond* of Kelly either, but I enjoyed watching her...her house, mainly, and the crass lack of self-awareness...

 

BUT I take it back, as she has seemed to become a bit more self-aware, maybe by watching herself.  She was definitely fun and self-deprecating in this episode, making fun of her loony expressions etc

[Quita]

2 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Why does Brianna insist on squeezing her body into tight body con style dresses?! She looked like a truck driver lumbering down those stairs.

Like mother, like daughter!

[Ashlyc]

long time viewer of this show. this was the worst season. ive never skipped so many parts. mostly Lydia. reality shows are not all that real, but i cant stand to watch people that are so glaringly fake. and theres no fun with her either. Love Shannon, but i dont know that mentally this is the best for her. maybe in a way its like therapy. i hope her and kelly are back next season so i can see them as newly single women having fun together. i could see kelly dating sooner than shannon. tamra i could go without, but shes fun. i think shes low key evil tho. all of the details about her and her poor children. ryan pops up but im sure the relationship with all of the younger ones is so strained. i do wonder if she left this show if they would allow her back in their lives. so sad. maybe they are better off? peggy peggy peggy.... she makes no sense. i agree with other commenters that it seems her husband wants the orange here. and i second all of the fried hair comments what is going on there?! youd think for how obsessed with there looks the couple is that Diko would give her a hair mask or too. i think its a level of taste. the more is more type vs actually being class. Vicki, i think she will keep coming back as long as they will have her. she is like a cockroach or cher and the Apocalypse. she will make it after everyone else everytime. 

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, Ashlyc said:

long time viewer of this show. this was the worst season. ive never skipped so many parts. mostly Lydia. reality shows are not all that real, but i cant stand to watch people that are so glaringly fake. and theres no fun with her either. Love Shannon, but i dont know that mentally this is the best for her. maybe in a way its like therapy. i hope her and kelly are back next season so i can see them as newly single women having fun together. i could see kelly dating sooner than shannon. tamra i could go without, but shes fun. i think shes low key evil tho. all of the details about her and her poor children. ryan pops up but im sure the relationship with all of the younger ones is so strained. i do wonder if she left this show if they would allow her back in their lives. so sad. maybe they are better off? peggy peggy peggy.... she makes no sense. i agree with other commenters that it seems her husband wants the orange here. and i second all of the fried hair comments what is going on there?! youd think for how obsessed with there looks the couple is that Diko would give her a hair mask or too. i think its a level of taste. the more is more type vs actually being class. Vicki, i think she will keep coming back as long as they will have her. she is like a cockroach or cher and the Apocalypse. she will make it after everyone else everytime. 

Tamra only has issues with 1 of her/Simon's children, their eldest daughter, Sidney. She isn't estranged from the other 2 at all, in fact, their son lives full time with Tamra, not Simon.

[Juniebaby]

If I were Doug, I would be fuming that she forces me to have a vasectomy and months later decides she wants another baby.  I don’t think she did it so she could choose the gender, I think she did it because now she can have babies without having sex with him.

[lunastartron]

9 hours ago, film noire said:I think Shannon is hard to watch, especially through female eyes. She's become a living checklist of what society hates in a woman; impetuous, drunk, gobby-mouthed, shrill, clumsy, big arsed, soft-bellied and raging.  She's the total negative package, when it comes to every ideal of American womanhood.

 And I find alot of it repugnant to watch...but there's also a kind of primal rage in how she's acting that I've found (this season) intriguing;  a woman who is done with trying to jockey for position within the Most Fuckable Bitch in the Harem world, done trying to dry hump that hollow leg one more time, hoping it will finally give her an orgasm. It's as if she just read the fine print in her Woman Contract, and can't BELIEVE the riders she never stopped to take in before -- who the fuck WROTE this fucking deal for me? Where did I sign up for THIS shit? -- she's so angry at all of it, and I have a grudging respect for that.

She's displacing the anger everywhere it shouldn't go  -- throwing plates and screeching and demanding footnotes to conversations when she herself is, at best, a drinking buddy to the truth -- but as undignified as her expression of that anger has been, there's dignity in feeling that anger, when you're coming to grips with realizing your value was based on being visually consumable, not on being a complex human being.

So maybe it is normal - not evolved, not good, not smart, not mature, not decent, not kind -- but normal to react like that when you find out it was the lift of your ass and the nip in your waist that society cared about all along, and not a single thing that really mattered in the making of you as a person. Your only value skin deep; nothing more. How could the reacton to that -- the reaction to something so ugly -- be anything but ugly itself?

I think this a beautiful and incisive meditation on the collective societal gaze as it applies to women as well as a compelling deconstruction of the specific value and expectations placed upon them in terms of the prevailing cultural perspective.

But from *my* personal perspective, it just doesn't apply all that much to Shannon. Perhaps her behavior this year has indeed been a manifestation of feminist rage and an expression of the epiphanies that you suggest ... but from my vantage point, it's just as (if not more than) likely a inevitable culmination of the personality that she displayed from her very first appearance on the show, well before she grappled with the relationship between her physical appearance and interior identity. 

I also feel that a framework in which Shannon's emotionalism is largely ascribed to such factors as the dissolution of her normatively approved model of external beauty elides over motivators that she herself identified and her very active contributions to those problems. For instance, her extensive handwringing over her marriage and simultaneous physical assault of David, classist jabs, weeping over jewelry that he gifted her, and - to put it generously - poor communication/listening comprehension. By her own reflection, the state of her marriage was what caused her to, for example, throw a plate of food at a coworker and yet she is very much partially accountable for the state of said marriage IMO. 

Similarly, I still have no idea what to believe about the 2003 domestic violence incident but I am inclined to take her own words at face value. If she indeed called 911 just because she wanted a verbal argument to stop, then she was even more extreme 14 years ago. 

I am willing to believe that biochemical issues may be exacerbating some of her present conduct but then, for instance/analogously, I think Kim Richards on Beverly Hills has significant underlying mental health issues and is yet still often a vicious asshole who is accountable for her  egregious disposition. 

[Sweet-tea]

17 hours ago, realitytvbitch980 said:

Ryan is .... gross. With beard, without beard, yeah. He's just not attractive whatsoever. Yikes. 

He gives me the creeps. There is something about his personality that is... unsettling. 

And the dynamic between Tamra and Ryan doesn't seem like mother and son. 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

Although Shannon was uncomfortable to watch at times this season, I still love her and actually applaud her for being brave enough to talk about her weight gain and crumbling marriage. Her rawness was painful to see but as a  former poster said, she did hold up a mirror for us. Many of us have been through or are going through these same things.  I saw her on WWHL last night and she was looking good and more of that fun Shannon was coming through. She is realizing that her happiness depends on her - not her weight or her totally checked out louse of a husband. I look forward to seeing her self realization process and she will rise, because inside she is strong and will survive this. When she is fun Shannon she is a hoot! 

Shannon is very flawed, and sometimes I find her totally exhausting to watch. But I don't find her totally irredeemable. Like Vicki. There is no going back for Vicki. I will hate her forever. And ten days. She will NEVER be a good person. Shannon, if she gets some good therapy and makes some serious changes, she could be awesome. She's not a terrible person, but she needs to re-prioritize a lot of things in her life. 

[AntAnn]

9 minutes ago, Juniebaby said:

 

If I were Doug, I would be fuming that she forces me to have a vasectomy and months later decides she wants another baby.  I don’t think she did it so she could choose the gender, I think she did it because now she can have babies without having sex with him.

 

Ha! I hadn’t thought of that. However, when she first mentioned the balls to Noballsman, it did occur to me that might be her excuse to get IVF, so she could try for a girl baby. After all, Meghan just went through the procedure. Can’t you get IVF with fresh as opposed to frozen sperm? 

[Cheetosandchoc]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

This is a brilliant observation, could Lydia and Noballman  (Nobleman ha!) have gotten the vasectomy so she can conceive thru assisted reproductive technology to get a girl baby ..... we have an expression for people like that, they are "above themselves " . They nauseate me. First a spread in Iceland, next one on designer babies. 

       It also doesn’t require them to have sex which seems like a plus for them since there is little chemistry between then.

16 minutes ago, Juniebaby said:

If I were Doug, I would be fuming that she forces me to have a vasectomy and months later decides she wants another baby.  I don’t think she did it so she could choose the gender, I think she did it because now she can have babies without having sex with him.

      Ha! I said more or less the same. I don’t think he minds not having to have sex with her though.

[SheTalksShit]

It's weird to me that Peggy's husband seems so outgoing and normal. Like there's no trouble understanding him, he has no trouble communicating with people, etc. and he didn't come to this country until he was a teenager, right? 

How/why he married such a nutcase weirdo is beyond me. He must be a verrrrryyyy patient person, certainly more so than I am. For me, if you talk in riddles, don't say what you mean and can't even communicate a clear point or story without confusing everyone, I'm done, I don't have time for that shit. Communicating with someone should not feel like rocket science, but that's what it feels like, trying to understand wtf Peggy is saying. 

Also, WHAT is up with the accent and inability to understand common english slang, phrases, etc. when YOU'VE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY SINCE YOU WERE 1 YEARS OLD???  Normally, somebody who moves here at that age doesn't even have an accent and speaks English like it's their native language, you wouldn't even know they were from another country unless they told you bc their English is like that of somebody born here. Up until around age 7, little kids pick up languages like it's a second nature, bc up until that age, your brain is like a sponge, you absorb and learn information and skills very quickly, easily and naturally - i remember, when i was a kid, i had a friend who'd just moved across the street, her family was from russia - she was 4, i was 5 and over the years, she used to come over and have dinner with our family, talk to me, talk to my parents, etc. no problem at all, you couldn't even tell she was from russia. meanwhile, her parents, who were very nice, could barely even communicate with my parents bc they spoke such little english, so she would often act as the translator between the 2. we had a bunch of foreign kids from israel in my class when i was little, too, and they all quickly picked up english and, in no time, spoke it perfectly and without an accent. 

Jo Guidice, from RHONJ, came to America when he was 1 - no foreign accent! You wouldn't even know he was born in Italy if it wasn't mentioned in the press bc of the whole possible-deportation thing. 

Soooo I am very confused as to why Peggy is having such trouble. She acts and speaks like she just moved here 5 years ago. 

I hope Andy asks her about this. 

She's either bullshitting OR she grew up really sheltered and was like, homeschooled by only Armenians or something. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[Juneau Gal]

If and when Lydia has a daughter, I hope that child is a full on cross between Wednesday Adams and Dr. Ruth and blows Lydia’s sparkle pony unicorn rainbow I’m too cute to know the difference between castration and vasectomy idea of femininity right on its ass. 

[SheTalksShit]

IDK, I don't dislike Lydia, but I just don't relate to her, at all. And I'm not sure how many people do, tbh. She and her husband were both virgins until they got married, their wedding night was their first time, at age 22. They're successful, living in the OC, with 3 beautiful children and a perfect marriage and perfect life and I'm just like...huh? Are you real? She is only 6 or so years older than me, so it's not like she's from a different time and I just don't really know anyone like her, at all. 

The only time she seemed human to me was when she expressed how she felt excluded from things when she found out she was the only one not included in the text chain, even though she's the one who organized the trip, etc. That's a feeling everyone can relate to, feeling left out at some point, even if the issue seems trivial, no one likes to feel excluded or forgotten about. 

Other than that, she reminds me of a Christian Barbie or somebody straight out of the movie Pleasantville lol. I have nothing against her, per say, she just seems extremely sheltered for her age and not really relatable. 

[ghoulina]

59 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

If and when Lydia has a daughter, I hope that child is a full on cross between Wednesday Adams and Dr. Ruth and blows Lydia’s sparkle pony unicorn rainbow I’m too cute to know the difference between castration and vasectomy idea of femininity right on its ass. 

I'm picturing her own Lane Kim, hiding books on witchcraft and black lipstick under the floorboards. 

[WordsWordsWords]

Season finale thoughts:

1. Kelly: Honey, if you can't stand anyone controlling you (including even making a tiny suggestion about something, it seems), why are you tying yourself into knots trying to control your mother? Could it be a lack of empathy on your part? Lack of self-awareness? Giving your mother a makeover wasn't the worst idea in the world, though. She looked good - though not much different - and I really liked her hair. Granted, the stylist couldn't do anything radically different (disclaimer: a decade ago, I wore my hair much the same way).
2. Shannon: I worry about your drinking. I do. I like you most of the time, but when you get a few vodkas under your belt, you are way more volatile than you need to be. I hope you can move on from David and find peace within yourself. You will never be happy with another person till you are at peace with yourself.
3. Vicki: You are even less self-aware than poor Kelly. Also, even when she's being vulgar, angry, and drunk, she's interesting to watch. You are just vile. I wouldn't give you a casserole if you were the last woman on my block.
4. Peggy: Bless your heart, I keep coming back to the same themes with you. I cannot understand why someone who's been in this country since she was one year old and graduated from a major university with a degree in English (!) can neither speak the language clearly nor understand it. Empathy for another human being is also not in your vocabulary.
5. Lydia: You're cute. Now please go away because you're also vapid.
6. Meghan: Yeah, yeah, I gave my son my maiden name for his middle name, too.
7. The only HWs I truly want to be off my screen next year are Peggy and Lydia. Peggy because she's toxic and incomprehensible, Lydia because she takes up space and that's it. Even Vicki, who's toxic, provides some drama. Of course, if she's gone I won't cry.

[Carolina Girl]

2 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

I hope Andy asks her about this. 

Do you think that Andy's treatment of her and Lydiot at the Reunion will be an indication of whether they're coming back?  I've always wondered - if he knows they're not "re-signed" and filming hasn't commenced on the next season, is it his practice to kick their asses when possible?  I tend not to watch reunions for the most part.  

[SheTalksShit]

12 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Do you think that Andy's treatment of her and Lydiot at the Reunion will be an indication of whether they're coming back?  I've always wondered - if he knows they're not "re-signed" and filming hasn't commenced on the next season, is it his practice to kick their asses when possible?  I tend not to watch reunions for the most part.  

Andy once said that there was a certain moment at the RHOBH reunion where he decided Joyce would not be back. 

Which leads me to believe what happens at the reunions has a lot to do with whether or not theyre invited back, tbh. B/c reunion is a time to resolve things or escalate things and reveal new things, etc. and sometimes, that ends with cast members refusing to film with a certain person, etc. Just ask Phaedra Parks from RHOA. I think they fully intended to renew her contract, but after the whole fallout with Kandi and Porsha at the reunion, they just couldn't make it happen. 

Other times, I think he and others have already sorta decided ahead of time that they're not gonna renew someone's contract, just based on the footage from the past season and then the reunion just seals their fate. 

And others, I think they fully intend to renew their contract, but for whatever reason, it doesn't end up happening - disagreements over salary, girls refusing to film with her, them finding someone new who seems interesting and could replace her, etc. Like Jill Zarin and Brandi Glanville. 

So it really depends, I guess. 

[Sweet-tea]

16 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Is Jeana Keough a possibility? I imagine the producers are still trying to find allies for Vicki to film with.

I'm kind of hoping it's Alexis. 

[Carolina Girl]

13 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

but after the whole fallout with Kandi and Porsha at the reunion, they just couldn't make it happen. 

Thank you for the "enlightenment"!  I wonder why they dumped Phaedra but kept Porsha.  I think in this case Nene was right - dump both Frick and Frack.  I'd rather watch Shamea!

[BloggerAloud]

20 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Which leads me to believe what happens at the reunions has a lot to do with whether or not theyre invited back, tbh.

I think a lot depends on Reunion performance. I think Brandi doing well at the first reunion was what got her on the show fulltime and I think the reunion where Luann on RHONY wasn't a main cast member and she mounted a comeback got her back on the full-time.

[NeverLate]

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Kelly? That just shows you how fickle these bitches can be. I guess they had to make amends for the show, but really, Shannon could never nor should ever be able to tolerate Kelly any more than she could Vicki. 

They made amends, the two of them are in the same boat with their husbands, or soon to be ex husbands. I thought they got along quite well.

[Duke2801]

2 hours ago, Cheetosandchoc said:

       It also doesn’t require them to have sex which seems like a plus for them since there is little chemistry between then.

      Ha! I said more or less the same. I don’t think he minds not having to have sex with her though.

Idk.... I can't stand either of them.  It's not quite hate - but it's bordering on intense dislike.  That said, they really do seem into each other.  He seems especially enamored of her. He's always kissing or touching her and telling her how hot she is (barf).  So, while I'm not sure what exactly defines "chemistry" they don't strike me as not being physically attracted to one another.  

2 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

IDK, I don't dislike Lydia, but I just don't relate to her, at all. And I'm not sure how many people do, tbh. She and her husband were both virgins until they got married, their wedding night was their first time, at age 22. They're successful, living in the OC, with 3 beautiful children and a perfect marriage and perfect life and I'm just like...huh? Are you real? She is only 6 or so years older than me, so it's not like she's from a different time and I just don't really know anyone like her, at all. 

The only time she seemed human to me was when she expressed how she felt excluded from things when she found out she was the only one not included in the text chain, even though she's the one who organized the trip, etc. That's a feeling everyone can relate to, feeling left out at some point, even if the issue seems trivial, no one likes to feel excluded or forgotten about. 

Other than that, she reminds me of a Christian Barbie or somebody straight out of the movie Pleasantville lol. I have nothing against her, per say, she just seems extremely sheltered for her age and not really relatable. 

Yeah, she's like some of those Mommy/Fitness/Christian bloggers (who are usually hawking some kind of MLM product).  You know the ones whose Facebook profile "summaries" are all: Mom to three angels. Wife to a stud.  Lover of fitness, Starbucks and Jesus. Plexus SUPERSTAR."  Or something in that vein.  

[BodhiGurl]

I wonder if Lydia’s hubs even really got “his balls cut off” or If it was all bs... for a storyline... hmmm ?

[KungFuBunny]

2 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Idk.... I can't stand either of them.  It's not quite hate - but it's bordering on intense dislike.  That said, they really do seem into each other.  He seems especially enamored of her. He's always kissing or touching her and telling her how hot she is (barf).  So, while I'm not sure what exactly defines "chemistry" they don't strike me as not being physically attracted to one another.  

Yeah, she's like some of those Mommy/Fitness/Christian bloggers (who are usually hawking some kind of MLM product).  You know the ones whose Facebook profile "summaries" are all: Mom to three angels. Wife to a stud.  Lover of fitness, Starbucks and Jesus. Plexus SUPERSTAR."  Or something in that vein.  

I'm still convinced that her birth mother is

[SheTalksShit]

20 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Yeah, she's like some of those Mommy/Fitness/Christian bloggers (who are usually hawking some kind of MLM product).  You know the ones whose Facebook profile "summaries" are all: Mom to three angels. Wife to a stud.  Lover of fitness, Starbucks and Jesus. Plexus SUPERSTAR."  Or something in that vein.  

She's just so SHELTERED. Like honestly it annoyed me when she was soooo uncomfortable with the psychic and at the gay club, b/c that's just like so ridiculous to me. Or when she ran off the reunion set, crying, b/c Briana and Brooks were arguing, even though nothing they said was even directed at her or had anything to do with her! She just couldn't stand to be around it like wtf? I know people have every right to their feelings, rational or not, but like COME ON, how can you be in your mid-30's and still live in such a bubble? 

Edited November 14, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

A few others who are on long conference calls will wear headsets (and pace around - a big pet peeve) some times. 

The cell phone stroll.  It makes me long for the days of tethered phones. 

 

18 hours ago, remmybrat said:

Did any one else think as, I do Kelly's mom's make over was a waste of good money? She didn't look any different tome.

I've never understood the logic behind, "I want my mom to feel good about herself, so I'm going to get her a makeover."  Isn't that the opposite? 

 

17 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Archie. Best Supporting Player With a Ball on a Real Housewives Show since Kyle's Bambi on RHOBH. 

What?  No Doug jokes here?

 

16 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I don't know if the accent and lack of linguistic fluency are put-ons but, if they aren't, I don't think either comprise reflections on her intellect. She reminds me of Melania Trump who is often maligned as stupid but speaks five languages - Peggy says she speaks four and, if she's been raised in cultural insularity, it makes sense she has thicker dialectical characteristics that may fluctuate.

If Peggy includes English among the four languages she says she speaks, then...

 

8 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

This way she has an excuse to undergo IVF and pick the sex?

Didn't the BSOJ say she was wanting to try for a girl?  It said something that made me think, "Ew."

[zoeysmom]

Shannon cleared up her Meghan slight from last night's WWHL:

[yourmomiseasy]

7 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I was really hoping Vicki would fall down the stairs. Are headsets really $500?

They can be depending on what you buy.  A lot of the Plantronics ones for desk phones are in that range.  

[ivygirl]

1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

Yeah, she's like some of those Mommy/Fitness/Christian bloggers (who are usually hawking some kind of MLM product).  You know the ones whose Facebook profile "summaries" are all: Mom to three angels. Wife to a stud.  Lover of fitness, Starbucks and Jesus. Plexus SUPERSTAR."  Or something in that vein.  

In that order. LOL

You know, I was initially bugged by the preview clip of Meghan telling Lydia to stop reading the Bible and start trusting her own judgment (or whatever). People have long consulted religious texts, wisdom literature, the work of philosophers, and so on for guidance. But I realized, she’s probably referring to Lydia’s tendency to selectively decide whether or not something is ok or not based on its presence or lack thereof in the Bible... but really, she’s basing it on whether or not she wants to do it (because “ball”-snipping and IVF aren’t there, either). ETA Lydia has also ignored very specific stuff about kindness and not being a snotty jerk.

Because I can’t see Meghan pulling that line on Tamra. All hell would break loose. ;)

Edited November 15, 2017 by ivygirl

[Jextella]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Shannon cleared up her Meghan slight from last night's WWHL:

When Shannon was on WWHL, Andy asked her what other city she could see herself with and she said NYC.  She said she really likes Sonja and Ramona.  I could easily see her in NYC.  It would be really fun to see the 3 of them together.  They are of similar minds in many regards and in similar places in life as well.  I actually think Shannon is sort of the odd woman out in the OC.  She just doesn't fit with the others very well.  I can't see her being true friends with any of them with the possible exception of Heather and Megan.  I think she'd be a far better fit in NYC and has the capacity to develop true friendships with Ramona and Sonja.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Jextella

[ITALIA]

9 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

And didn't you LOVE Ali saying "we were taking steps to dismiss a Board Member" - as if he had staged some sort of palace coup.  

Like the guy/gal didn't call him up after the Vicki cancer scam charity "Link" to the website and resign.  

The Board:  Vicki, her son, Ali the business partner and shady friend of Ali the business party.  Yeah, you got the cream of the Fortune 500 right there.....

Apropros of nothing - can I get a show of hands as to how fast Steve heads for the door if Vicki is dumped from the cast of HO-Wives?  From all accounts, this is a guy with political ambitions, who probably sees "reality star" as a career uptick.  

There's NO other reason for Steve to be with the homely, vile, liar ICKI.

[Anne Thrax]

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

What a surprise: "Godly" woman that Lydia is, wants a designer baby. 

I'm convinced this was the only reason for Doug getting his balls cut off, thus giving him a reason to have some frozen.  I distinctly remember Jim and Doug having a conversation about vasectomy, and Jim telling Doug that he froze some and perhaps Doug should do the same thing.  How convenient that we saw on camera the perfect setup for Doug to do so as well.

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Kudos to Eddie for ignoring Vicki- he said he wants nothing to do with her and he meant it! Also kudos for helping Tamra down the stairs in heels- very telling which men provided an arm for support and who did not. 

I think the producers allowed the "Eddie is gay" rumor because they needed to direct people's attention away from Doug, who if he lived in Laguna Beach would be hit on like hourly.  To a straight woman, he doesn't impress me as having a gram of pheromone in his whole body.  And the way he dresses, his hairstyle, gay men would instantly peg him as fuckable (I have a couple of gay friends, and I can imagine them saying this about Doug).  I hope Lydia doesn't find out some day that the father of all her children has a boyfriend.  She might begin uttering ridiculous incantations, throwing glitter on strangers in public places, and sharing a bong with her mother.  (Would she be more or less annoying then?  For me - hard to say.)

And I always appreciate it when I'm on a date and the gentleman holds my hand because I'm wearing heels going downstairs (I live on the 2nd floor).  Before there were remote door unlockers I used to like reaching over to unlock his side after he unlocks the door for me to get in first.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Anne Thrax

[ITALIA]

5 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

It's weird to me that Peggy's husband seems so outgoing and normal. Like there's no trouble understanding him, he has no trouble communicating with people, etc. and he didn't come to this country until he was a teenager, right? 

How/why he married such a nutcase weirdo is beyond me. He must be a verrrrryyyy patient person, certainly more so than I am. For me, if you talk in riddles, don't say what you mean and can't even communicate a clear point or story without confusing everyone, I'm done, I don't have time for that shit. Communicating with someone should not feel like rocket science, but that's what it feels like, trying to understand wtf Peggy is saying. 

Also, WHAT is up with the accent and inability to understand common english slang, phrases, etc. when YOU'VE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY SINCE YOU WERE 1 YEARS OLD???  Normally, somebody who moves here at that age doesn't even have an accent and speaks English like it's their native language, you wouldn't even know they were from another country unless they told you bc their English is like that of somebody born here. Up until around age 7, little kids pick up languages like it's a second nature, bc up until that age, your brain is like a sponge, you absorb and learn information and skills very quickly, easily and naturally - i remember, when i was a kid, i had a friend who'd just moved across the street, her family was from russia - she was 4, i was 5 and over the years, she used to come over and have dinner with our family, talk to me, talk to my parents, etc. no problem at all, you couldn't even tell she was from russia. meanwhile, her parents, who were very nice, could barely even communicate with my parents bc they spoke such little english, so she would often act as the translator between the 2. we had a bunch of foreign kids from israel in my class when i was little, too, and they all quickly picked up english and, in no time, spoke it perfectly and without an accent. 

Jo Guidice, from RHONJ, came to America when he was 1 - no foreign accent! You wouldn't even know he was born in Italy if it wasn't mentioned in the press bc of the whole possible-deportation thing. 

Soooo I am very confused as to why Peggy is having such trouble. She acts and speaks like she just moved here 5 years ago. 

I hope Andy asks her about this. 

She's either bullshitting OR she grew up really sheltered and was like, homeschooled by only Armenians or something. 

Because Peggy is a MORON and has NO clue about ANYTHING. She's a dumb entitled bitch, who thinks WAY too highly of herself. She's REALLY unattractive, has NOTHING  to offer, and has the WORST taste is clothing. She needs to go along with small DICKO.

[Anne Thrax]

8 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I called it back when she started asking Doug to cut off his balls. It was never that she didn't want anymore kids, she didn't want anymore "boys". It would have been Un-Christian of her to voice that. If Doug had a vasectomy, it would justify her going in for IVF (with the end result having a girl). She can do it by only having female eggs implanted not revealing that and then say it is a miracle gift from Jesus.

KFB you are my favorite!  Did you mean "only having female embryos"?  The egg can only pass on X chromasomes.  It's the sperm, which can pass on either the X or the Y chromasome, that determine gender.  Two Xs = girl. XY = boy.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Anne Thrax

[SheTalksShit]

oops sorry meant to post this in another section of the forum

Edited November 15, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[KungFuBunny]

38 minutes ago, Anne Thrax said:

KFB you are my favorite!  Did you mean "only having female embryos"?  The egg can only pass on X chromasomes.  It's the sperm, which can pass on either the X or the Y chromasome, that determine gender.  Two Xs = girl. XY = boy.

Sorry my bad

[ITALIA]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

This post is genius. I have tons of empathy for Shannon. David had an affair when she was a size 2, so beyond getting healthy, why should she care if she's carrying around a few extra pounds? She's not 20 anymore.

Why isn't she allowed to be pissed? Why should she sit there calmly and let a woman speak who's done nothing but cut her down and spill lies about her husband and speak badly of her? Why can't she get upset?

It's like the worst possible thing a woman could do is be loud and angry, while not being a size 00. I think people forget the opposite side of the coin: Shannon tried it the world's way for years. She stuck vigilantly to the Woman Manual. And it fucked her over. So now she's not so interested in being told to calm down so she can look sweet and docile and small and contrite for the cameras. She doesn't have to be sorry for being upset or a little overweight. I'd be done with Lydia's crap and Peggy's double-talk too, and Vicki's constant lies and allegations. 

Shannon at least comes off as a real person. I've always liked her, even at her worst. I feel about her almost the same way I feel about Kelly, which is why I'm glad they're getting along now. 

NO empathy for Shannon. Her weight probably isn't why David isn't into her. She's a spoiled, entitled control freak with low self-esteem. She's loud and obnoxious.

Edited November 15, 2017 by ITALIA

[yourmomiseasy]

53 minutes ago, Anne Thrax said:

KFB you are my favorite!  Did you mean "only having female embryos"?  The egg can only pass on X chromasomes.  It's the sperm, which can pass on either the X or the Y chromasome, that determine gender.  Two Xs = girl. XY = boy.

This assumes that whatever Lydia is reproduces the same way humans do.

[Anne Thrax]

3 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

She's just so SHELTERED. Like honestly it annoyed me when she was soooo uncomfortable with the psychic and at the gay club, b/c that's just like so ridiculous to me. Or when she ran off the reunion set, crying, b/c Briana and Brooks were arguing, even though nothing they said was even directed at her or had anything to do with her! She just couldn't stand to be around it like wtf? I know people have every right to their feelings, rational or not, but like COME ON, how can you be in your mid-30's and still live in such a bubble? 

Girlfriend - have you gotten a load of her mother??

[lunastartron]

1 hour ago, ivygirl said:

In that order. LOL

You know, I was initially bugged by the preview clip of Meghan telling Lydia to stop reading the Bible and start trusting her own judgment (or whatever). People have long consulted religious texts, wisdom literature, the work of philosophers, and so on for guidance. But I realized, she’s probably referring to Lydia’s tendency to selectively decide whether or not something is ok or not based on its presence or lack thereof in the Bible... but really, she’s basing it on whether or not she wants to do it (because “ball”-snipping and IVF aren’t there, either). ETA Lydia has also ignored very specific stuff about kindness and not being a snotty jerk.

Because I can’t see Meghan pulling that line on Tamra. All hell would break loose. ;)

I'm reserving final judgment until I see the entire discourse in context but I thought Meghan came across very poorly in the brief preview; it's the first time I found her articulation truly offensive. 

If Meghan is indeed addressing Lydia's ostensible application of Biblical principles to her life, then it is indeed a bit rich that Meghan herself is selectively applying that policing to Lydia and not to Tamra, who herself called Alexis a bad Christian even after her spiritual redemption tour (to say nothing of hitting/shoving Kelly in Ireland and verbally attacking her in the hotel hallway). 

I never got the big deal about Lydia's invocation of the Bible with respect to her uncertainty about attending  drag queen Bingo, particularly since she in fact put aside her discomfort and was willing to engage in a culture with which she lacked familiarity. 

I've also never seen Lydia make proscriptive pronouncements about how others should live their lives in terms of religion; she's talked about how her faith and interpretation of it inform her and has occasionally provided counsel to those, like Alexis and Tamra, who have sought it either specifically or overarchingly in the context of their friendship.

IVF and vasectomies are certainly not in the Bible, which in many respects requires judgment calls on how broad themes and archaically or metaphorically expressed guidance should be practiced in the contemporary world. 

So I don't see why potentially going for invitro is necessarily irreconcilable with aspiring to a Biblically compliant life.

It's just odd to me that Lydia is getting called out for this while Meghan, iirc, said nary a word about Vicki literally blaspheming by comparing herself to Jesus during his Passion. 

[goofygirl]

Oh my Lydiot, you are SUCH an Idiot!  NOW you want a baby girl?? GET A FISH YOU STUPID PERSON! Baby Jeebus has decreed that YOU MAY NOT PROCREATE ANY MORE!! Any more lunacy and the world will just crater!  MORON

Seriously, we have enough problems in the world.  You must stop. NOW!!

Edited November 15, 2017 by goofygirl
wine

[NeverLate]

5 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Shannon cleared up her Meghan slight from last night's WWHL:

Good for Shannon,she looks great btw?

[Anne Thrax]

It never fails to crack me up when the lead-in to the show is a shot of shoreline, surfers and waves breaking (the scene they showed on this show opening was most likely The Wedge in Newport Beach) and then we cut to Vicki at Coto Insurance, 30 miles inland.

Vicki - Are you going to say it wasn't it you who decided to spend $500 per unit because "everybody needs a headset"? When they don't function as promised, it's not helpful to tell the employees, "then the range isn't right".  You're president of the company and yes, it's absolutely YOUR job to figure it out.  Get some tech support, nimrod.

SO who is this gnome who's come to tell everyone (including Vicki) what's the scoop.  He tells Michael he's to join the meeting because "this time it's different".  The gnome knows exactly how to stoke Vicki's ego by declaring "Yes - at the head of the table, like the Queen!"  And after the announcement of his appointment to the Board (Michael, shake my hand!) Michael pays lip service to how he's ready to take on more responsibility.  Thank goodness, because "he's the next legacy of my company" according to Vicki.

Bravo must have told Vicki that her lackluster endorsement of Steve as Chief Love Tank Filler needed some reinforcement, and we're treated to the segment where Vicki states for the camera that on her vision board, she "had the Ten Qualities In A Man, and all ten were Steve!"  1) Financially secure, 2) good relationship with his kids, 3) handsome!  See?  All ten.  And then they all vote that Steve's job is a difficult job (Michael head-bobbing like there's no tomorrow).

For all of you who were wondering:  Kelly wants her mother to have a makeover because Kelly knows that at 68 years old, she won't be sitting around on the couch or in bed like her mother and Michael.  I don't think that makes sense to anyone but Kelly.

Then we cut to surfers at what looks to me like the Huntington Beach pier (southside - locals only!) and then to Tamra in Ladera Ranch, 40 miles inland.  Why is Tamra wearing a slinky black halter dress that looks to be intended for either a black tie affair or hot date -- to her daughter's daytime graduation ceremony?  She has nothing else in her closet such as a skirt suit?  A modest sheath dress?  Absurdly sketchy choice IMHO.

Brianna did wear a figure hugging dress to the candle party, but at least it had cap sleeves, a modest neckline, and the hem went down to her knees.

Shannon, walking down the steps to the party at the St. Regis:  "Wait.  Is there no vodka here??"  Kinda dug Grandma's vintage black dress -- wish we'd have seen more of it.

OMG - Peggy's going to a party at the St. Regis and once again she cannot find a salon in her neighborhood.  Yet, she lives in Newport Coast FFS!  (Bought their house in 2010 for $7M - 4 bd 6 ba.)  I really dislike the one shoulder look, but I have to say her dress was so much more stylish and flattering than the pink number she wore in Iceland.  It's obvious Peggy's breast reconstruction was completed by the time she wore the red dress.

What is that horrid hairy vest Vicki wore to the party?  She never fails to make a bizarre choice.  I'm sure Steve was impressed with her scintillating conversation:  "Heh-heh.  We're at a candle party.  A candle party I tell ya.  We don't do 'em like this in the midwest."

 I really like Shannon's hair in the style she wore it at the party.  And she IS right -- Peggy is a lunatic.  Peggy tried riding both sides of the fence again, and this time Tamra rubbed her face in it.  Was Shannon right to raise her voice and say she's a fucking lunatic?  Maybe not.  But at least Peggy got busted on her shit - with the help of production and the handy video clip validating her new moniker "confusing Peggy".

So struck during the final scenes of Lydia's TH versus Lydia at the party -- her cleavage (not) cutout in her THs and her cup size in the shot of her at the party, well something definitely changed.

David to Kelly: You could write a book with all your euphemisms.  (wtf?)

Finally, Shannon says "time heals all wounds so we'll see" and Vicki blathers "Oh please. There's no time that heals any wounds on Shannon Beador's body".  What the fuck does that even mean?  Shut up Vicki!

Edited November 15, 2017 by Anne Thrax

[bravofan27]

15 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Not a single bit of interaction between Tamra and Vicki at the party. I thought that was interesting. 

When they got to the party, it looked like Tamra started to walk over to Vicki, and Eddie said, "Why are we walking this way?" and Tamra got flustered and changed directions. I think Eddie was in control of her not talking to Vicki. If he wasn't there, she most likely would have. And since Eddie was there, Vicki stayed away from Tamra. Tamra made the strange comment like, "Vicki didn't apologize to you" to Eddie. To me, it seemed like she wished she was talking to her. 

[ivygirl]

3 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I'm reserving final judgment until I see the entire discourse in context but I thought Meghan came across very poorly in the brief preview; it's the first time I found her articulation truly offensive. 

If Meghan is indeed addressing Lydia's ostensible application of Biblical principles to her life, then it is indeed a bit rich that Meghan herself is selectively applying that policing to Lydia and not to Tamra, who herself called Alexis a bad Christian even after her spiritual redemption tour (to say nothing of hitting/shoving Kelly in Ireland and verbally attacking her in the hotel hallway). 

I never got the big deal about Lydia's invocation of the Bible with respect to her uncertainty about attending  drag queen Bingo, particularly since she in fact put aside her discomfort and was willing to engage in a culture with which she lacked familiarity. 

I've also never seen Lydia make proscriptive pronouncements about how others should live their lives in terms of religion; she's talked about how her faith and interpretation of it inform her and has occasionally provided counsel to those, like Alexis and Tamra, who have sought it either specifically or overarchingly in the context of their friendship.

IVF and vasectomies are certainly not in the Bible, which in many respects requires judgment calls on how broad themes and archaically or metaphorically expressed guidance should be practiced in the contemporary world. 

So I don't see why potentially going for invitro is necessarily irreconcilable with aspiring to a Biblically compliant life.

It's just odd to me that Lydia is getting called out for this while Meghan, iirc, said nary a word about Vicki literally blaspheming by comparing herself to Jesus during his Passion. 

Sorry-- I didn't mean to imply that ivf is somehow less "Christian" of a choice. At all. And I sincerely apologize if anyone took it that way. I'm pointing at Lydia's tendency to pick and choose which issues she seems to be more concerned about in relation to spiritual importance or outcome. 

I hope that there's more to what Meghan said that makes it a little more redeemable, but maybe there isn't. That's a pretty bracing sound bite. 

But don't get me started on Vicki's "Christ on the cross" comparison.