S08.E18: The Ties that Bind

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, alexa said:

I also find Barb's friend very troubling.  First of all she isn't a friend...just the way she talks to her is not a person that is supportive in a friend sort of way.  Even if a friend disagrees with you, they would also understand where you are coming from.  There is no way this "friend" can see all that has happened to Barb, etc, and just say that sort of stuff to her, and actually be a friend.  She could have said, Barb, I understand why this is so heartbreaking for you, but unfortunately the only thing to turn it around is by doing a, b, and c, but I understand why you might not want to do that.... etc.

Maybe her friend has seen all that has happened to Barb in addition to hearing all that Barb has had to say about it from Barb's own mouth, and not just the snippets that MTV has aired for us, and has formed an opinion based on that first-hand knowledge.  I just find it hard to believe that we know more about what's going on in Barb's life than her own friends do.

[Sprockets]

6 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

  I just find it hard to believe that we know more about what's going on in Barb's life than her own friends do.

Lots of things are possible, and we know we don't know everything.  Still, her "friend" is not supportive in the least.  No matter what else she knows, she should be compassionate.  Also, she is giving Barb advice that we do know to be absurd, like be friends with David.  Her friend is not friendly.  Barb could talk to any random stranger on the street and get more kindness and empathy.  

[Mkay]

4 hours ago, Poohbear617 said:

Why does Leah have to drive the girls to the bus stop? Is it because she does not live within the school district and Cory does? Actually why do all of the mom drive their kids to and from school.If the kids go to a private school Iwould understand this because most private schools around require you provide your own transportation. I have attended and taught in 3 states and all the public schools provided bus service, so unless they do this for more camera time I think they should take a bus if offered.

She mentioned she had to drive them down the hill to catch the bus. My bus would only drive halfway down our dirt road.  We lived at a dead end. We could drive up to the beginning of the dirt road and it would pick us up, but for whatever reason, it would drive past a certain point.

[GreatKazu]

53 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

Lots of things are possible, and we know we don't know everything.  Still, her "friend" is not supportive in the least.  No matter what else she knows, she should be compassionate.  Also, she is giving Barb advice that we do know to be absurd, like be friends with David.  Her friend is not friendly.  Barb could talk to any random stranger on the street and get more kindness and empathy.  

Very much this. No matter what, friends are at least compassionate. They don't try to offer any unsolicited advice or their opinion when a friend just sometimes needs to vent and cry on a shoulder. 

12 minutes ago, Mkay said:

She mentioned she had to drive them down the hill to catch the bus. My bus would only drive halfway down our dirt road.  We lived at a dead end. We could drive up to the beginning of the dirt road and it would pick us up, but for whatever reason, it would drive past a certain point.

It is dark when she leaves the house. I can't see her letting the girls walk by themselves. Driving them to the bus stop is a safer option. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by GreatKazu

[TheRealT]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Maybe her friend has seen all that has happened to Barb in addition to hearing all that Barb has had to say about it from Barb's own mouth, and not just the snippets that MTV has aired for us, and has formed an opinion based on that first-hand knowledge.  I just find it hard to believe that we know more about what's going on in Barb's life than her own friends do.

I don't understand this (not being snarky). What do you think might be happening off-screen that would make Barb's friend's advice reasonable? Do you think UBT is getting a bad edit and he's actually a decent, reasonable person who just doesn't mesh well with Barb? Do you think that his and Jenlle's behavior on the show is reasonable and/or taken out of context or something? I'm seriously not trying to be snarky and, obviously, you don't have to answer these questions, but I'm genuinely curious how you see it.

[Sprockets]

29 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Very much this. No matter what, friends are at least compassionate. They don't try to offer any unsolicited advice or their opinion when a friend just sometimes needs to vent and cry on a shoulder. 

Well that nearly had me in tears.  I could use a friend like that.  

[GreatKazu]

2 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

Well that nearly had me in tears.  I could use a friend like that.  

I am blessed to have friends like this. I am also the kind of person who will offer a shoulder to anyone, anytime. :-)  I will also offer the last five dollars in my purse and a drink, if required.  

[Sprockets]

25 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I am also the kind of person who will offer a shoulder to anyone, anytime. :-)  I will also offer the last five dollars in my purse and a drink, if required.  

Marry me.  

[GreatKazu]

49 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

Marry me.  

I do. :-)  But no sod trashtastic wedding, please. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Sprockets]

51 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I do. :-)  But no sod trashtastic wedding, please. 

Fun fact:  I've been planning this all my life.  But seriously, you jumped right to the vows.  And you know so little about me.  You have no idea where I store batteries, or how I expect you to do my laundry.  I bite my nails in my sleep.  We need an engagement period!  

Edited November 9, 2017 by Sprockets
stressed, dude!

[Winehouse]

I just wanted to see if anyone else found this as funny as I did. Gracie: "I just realized that I like school. It gives you something to DO." I think it was how she said it. ?

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, TheRealT said:

I don't understand this (not being snarky). What do you think might be happening off-screen that would make Barb's friend's advice reasonable? Do you think UBT is getting a bad edit and he's actually a decent, reasonable person who just doesn't mesh well with Barb? Do you think that his and Jenlle's behavior on the show is reasonable and/or taken out of context or something? I'm seriously not trying to be snarky and, obviously, you don't have to answer these questions, but I'm genuinely curious how you see it.

I'm saying I don't know the full story.  If what MTV puts on the show is 100% of the story, and 100% "true," and supports the contention that David beats the kids and Jenelle, it boggles my mind that Barb would ever let Jace go over there before the court ordered it.  Yet she did.  Why would she do that if it puts him in danger?  Why is her assessment of the danger so different from ours? 

And Barb couldn't rustle up a friend who would take her side.  Why?  If she's who Barb picked to be on the show and apparently go on vacation with, then I assume they're close--certainly close enough that her friend would know a lot more about what's going on than Teen Mom viewers do. 

The people who know vastly more about the situation than we do are taking actions that are very contrary to the opinions here, and there has to be a reason.  The main difference between them and us, as far as I can discern, is that we see the 15 minutes a week that MTV shows us while they see it all in real life, and what they see in real life (and we don't) causes them to make the decisions they do. 

[TheRealT]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm saying I don't know the full story.  If what MTV puts on the show is 100% of the story, and 100% "true," and supports the contention that David beats the kids and Jenelle, it boggles my mind that Barb would ever let Jace go over there before the court ordered it.  Yet she did.  Why would she do that if it puts him in danger?  Why is her assessment of the danger so different from ours? 

And Barb couldn't rustle up a friend who would take her side.  Why?  If she's who Barb picked to be on the show and apparently go on vacation with, then I assume they're close--certainly close enough that her friend would know a lot more about what's going on than Teen Mom viewers do. 

The people who know vastly more about the situation than we do are taking actions that are very contrary to the opinions here, and there has to be a reason.  The main difference between them and us, as far as I can discern, is that we see the 15 minutes a week that MTV shows us while they see it all in real life, and what they see in real life (and we don't) causes them to make the decisions they do. 

Ok. I disagree with a lot of this, but I've covered a lot of that in previous posts. Generally, I don't agree with the notion that the friends/acquaintances of people on the show must know more than we do, so we should defer to their judgment. By that reasoning, we should think that Jenelle is a good mom (because UBT and some of her friends say so), that UBT is a great guy (because Jenelle and his mom say so), that Jo and Javi are assholes and Kail is awesome (because Kail's friends have said so), that Leah never had a drug problem (because her relatives said so), etc., etc. I don't believe that the show portrays 100% of "the truth," but I find it hard to believe that what's been presented on the show for years is false, while a hypothetical alternate reality is true because random "friends of" indirectly allude to it.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

 I think  Courtland (so yeah, we do have to consider the source...) said Barb only let Jenelle take Jace when MTV cameras were around (as she trusted the MTV crew to be chaperones of some sort, or for Jenelle to at least not be completely abusive/awful when cameras are in and Jace is there). But who knows...

[StatisticalOutlier]

10 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

Ok. I disagree with a lot of this, but I've covered a lot of that in previous posts. Generally, I don't agree with the notion that the friends/acquaintances of people on the show must know more than we do, so we should defer to their judgment. By that reasoning, we should think that Jenelle is a good mom (because UBT and some of her friends say so), that UBT is a great guy (because Jenelle and his mom say so), that Jo and Javi are assholes and Kail is awesome (because Kail's friends have said so), that Leah never had a drug problem (because her relatives said so), etc., etc. I don't believe that the show portrays 100% of "the truth," but I find it hard to believe that what's been presented on the show for years is false, while a hypothetical alternate reality is true because random "friends of" indirectly allude to it.

But the examples you gave were of people supporting their friend or relative, so they had a motive--make their friend look better.  Barb's friend was actually doing the opposite.

Do you agree that David beats Jenelle and the kids, or is otherwise somehow dangerous?  If so, why do you think Barb let Jace be around him?  That's something I just can't understand.

[KittyKat133]

I know this has already been said in some context but I have to say it again. 

Yes devoid is a deadbeat but he wasn't wrong. They have been keeping him from

his daughter. He doesn't want to sit in their freaking living room to see her like when you go to visit a puppy and they put you in those side rooms. He's right about them driving off men and being man haters. He's right that it's not a coincidence that Briana is again raising a baby on her own with no man. He's right that mother given did the SAME THING two different baby daddies and none stuck around. He's right that it's wrong and disgusting that they bevave like this and talk shit like this in front of nova. He's also right that when he does go in front of a judge he will get to take nova and see her on his scheduled days away from the peering eyes of the coven. 

So is he a dead beat?? Sure. Is he wrong no. And I am glad he did the double middle finger walk off to those witches.

[lasandi]

11 hours ago, TheRealT said:

But isn't Roxanne's "brand" the woman who, abandoned and disappointed by her kids' father(s), bravely stepped up to raise her daughters on her own, teaching them that they must always stick together and can't rely on anyone but each other? I don't see why she flew off the handle over Devoin stating a fact that she herself says all the time.

Also, though Devoin is very immature and isn't a good father, it's understandable that he was hurt/angry when he saw on TV that they talk such shit about him and in front of Nova. That was where that conversation started, but none of them could say, "Ok, I can see how you wouldn't like that. You're not a piece of shit [or whatever the quote was], but you do need to do more for Nova..." Instead, they reiterated the insult, expecting him to just take it. So he lashed out. I actually think, "You don't even know what it's like to have a dad" is a mild "insult" under the circumstances. He could have said a lot of true things that would have been much worse.

But she did exactly that......flew off the handle after Devon said that.

[GreatKazu]

2 hours ago, Winehouse said:

I just wanted to see if anyone else found this as funny as I did. Gracie: "I just realized that I like school. It gives you something to DO." I think it was how she said it. ?

I missed that, but that is funny. Gracie and Lincoln need their own show. 

Devoin saying what he said about Briana's dad not being there. I can't go to my DVR right now because my husband is watching television, but just going by my memory, it seemed as if he was trying to say something along the lines of how Briana didn't have her dad in her life and he didn't want the same for his daughter. Is that right? 

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[TheRealT]

4 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But the examples you gave were of people supporting their friend or relative, so they had a motive--make their friend look better.  Barb's friend was actually doing the opposite.

Do you agree that David beats Jenelle and the kids, or is otherwise somehow dangerous?  If so, why do you think Barb let Jace be around him?  That's something I just can't understand.

Respectfully, do you think UBT is an abuser (in which case Barb was wrong to allow Jace to visit them) or that he isn't an abuser (in which case Barb has treated him unfairly)?

My personal opinion is that he is abusive (at minimum emotionally/verbally, but probably also physically to Kaiser (at least) and probably Jenelle as well). That's my opinion, based on various things. I don't claim that it's sufficient evidence to convict UBT of assault or child abuse or whatever, but I don't feel bad disparaging/accusing him on a message board. I don't think Barb had hard proof or a solid allegation of physical abuse toward Jace, so there was little she could do legally.

Still, I wouldn't expect her to tell Jace to shut up about being scared of UBT and be "civil" (as Jenelle demanded) because there wasn't sufficient proof to legally convict him of anything. That seems unreasonable to me. I think that most people, when faced with a child they love/have raised since birth who says he's afraid of his mom's boyfriend (who has a documented history of assaulting his pregnant partner and comes off as creepy as fuck) would err toward believing their grandchild and being critical/suspicious of the boyfriend. Personally, I would be very critical of anyone who did otherwise.

[Christina]

1 hour ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

 I think  Courtland (so yeah, we do have to consider the source...) said Barb only let Jenelle take Jace when MTV cameras were around (as she trusted the MTV crew to be chaperones of some sort, or for Jenelle to at least not be completely abusive/awful when cameras are in and Jace is there). But who knows...

Not just Courtland, though, because Jenelle said it on the show, too. Barb also withheld Jace from her after he said he was afraid of UBT and after Ensley tested positive for THC, he wasn't allowed to go there until after the court hearing. It was months, but we saw on the show that he was there often. It was just how it was edited.

I don't think he physically hit Jace or even Jenelle when Barb could see it. I actually think they argued but he didn't physically touch Jenelle before the marriage. That will begin soon enough. When Doris' court paperwork was released, Barb gave a statement to Radar (? I think) and again said she wasn't allowing Jace to go over there any longer. It probably started when the kids were locked out, but didn't say specifically, other than not letting him go until MTV was there and it was after the mediation.

Barb's friend could not have known anything at all to give the opinion she did. If Barb had sent a text to Dave saying anything other than she was giving Jace back to Jenelle, he would have read it out loud to everyone and proceeded to trash talk her in front of the kids. Even if there was no documented physical abuse, there was still the drug use and yelling and screaming. Nothing, other than her giving up custody of Jace, would have resulted in her getting a wedding invite, and Jenelle has stated several times she will not let Barb see him once she receives custody. The friend was absolutely wrong and if she knows what is going on and still gave that advice, she's as scummy as Jenelle and UBT. 

I've barely watched this season because it is dull, angering, and anxiety causing all at the same time, but I know this and Barb's friend doesn't? I'm hoping her reaction was scripted for the drama because otherwise, Barb is truly alone in the world with everyone trying to convince her she is in the wrong when she isn't.

[lasandi]

33 minutes ago, Christina said:

Not just Courtland, though, because Jenelle said it on the show, too. Barb also withheld Jace from her after he said he was afraid of UBT and after Ensley tested positive for THC, he wasn't allowed to go there until after the court hearing. It was months, but we saw on the show that he was there often. It was just how it was edited.

I don't think he physically hit Jace or even Jenelle when Barb could see it. I actually think they argued but he didn't physically touch Jenelle before the marriage. That will begin soon enough. When Doris' court paperwork was released, Barb gave a statement to Radar (? I think) and again said she wasn't allowing Jace to go over there any longer. It probably started when the kids were locked out, but didn't say specifically, other than not letting him go until MTV was there and it was after the mediation.

Barb's friend could not have known anything at all to give the opinion she did. If Barb had sent a text to Dave saying anything other than she was giving Jace back to Jenelle, he would have read it out loud to everyone and proceeded to trash talk her in front of the kids. Even if there was no documented physical abuse, there was still the drug use and yelling and screaming. Nothing, other than her giving up custody of Jace, would have resulted in her getting a wedding invite, and Jenelle has stated several times she will not let Barb see him once she receives custody. The friend was absolutely wrong and if she knows what is going on and still gave that advice, she's as scummy as Jenelle and UBT. 

I've barely watched this season because it is dull, angering, and anxiety causing all at the same time, but I know this and Barb's friend doesn't? I'm hoping her reaction was scripted for the drama because otherwise, Barb is truly alone in the world with everyone trying to convince her she is in the wrong when she isn't.

WORD! 

[GreatKazu]

This is the story you are referencing @Christina: http://thestir.cafemom.com/tv/207227/jenelle_evans_mom_drug_accusations

Babs told Radar, "That's a fact ... I have Jace, so when something like that happens, they [DCS] contact me." She continued, "That's the reason we were going to court. I can't send him over there when that's happened [Ensley testing positive for drugs]. I don't want to put him in that atmosphere."

Last May, Jenelle lost her years-long custody battle with Barbara over Jace, when a judge decided that the child should remain in his grandmother's primary custody. Jenelle did receive greater visitation rights, including weekends and time during the summer. It was reported that before the hearing, Babs kept Jenelle from seeing Jace for several weeks.

"I knew all along [about Ensley] and never exposed it until the day of court in May," Barbara said. "And the baby was born in January. All that time I never opened my mouth."

MTV cameras were present at the court house before and after the hearing, and Babs wondered to Radar if MTV will decide to air any of the footage. "I'm very curious if MTV will air the footage of me from the day I went to court with Jenelle," she said. "After court I was talking to one of her girlfriends, Jamie, asking her 'what do you think about this decision.' I told her, 'You just don't know all that's going on.' I said, 'If you people only knew this true story. This is not about me or her, this is about Jace's life.' They filmed that."

From January through May, Barb kept Jace from going to Jenelle's place. Reading this article it reads the judge ordered Barb retain custody rights. I am wondering now if the judge did order that Barb retain custody, but then asked them [Barb and Jenelle] to agree upon a visitation schedule. It is not unheard of for a judge to determine custody and then turn it over to the plaintiff and respondent to work with their respective lawyers on a visitation agreement. 

Doris filed her legal docs in September with references to allegations that occurred as late as August 1st. Jenelle responded on September 11th. Her containment day was on September 23rd.  I didn't realize how close the legal docs were responded to in relation to Jenelle's "special" day. No wonder she was such a raggedy bitch. Not that she wouldn't have been bitchy. http://radaronline.com/videos/jenelle-evans-drugs-custody-case-response-filed-teen-mom-tested-positive-marijuana/

[GreatKazu]

One more thing to add to this discussion. This is what Barb told PEOPLE Magazine about what set the wheels in motion about Jace being placed in her custody. CPS was involved and foster care was where Jace was headed if Barb didn't accept custody of him: http://people.com/tv/teen-mom-jenelle-evans-barbara-evans-custody-dispute/

“I gave Jenelle nine months to step up,” she says. “Nine months, and then when she bought her first car she was gone. She was gone, she was never home.” On one occasion, Barbara even says, “I begged her, ‘Please, please come home. … She didn’t even call me back. Never. She was out every single night. I did not set her up on that.”

Back when Jenelle was a teen, tensions escalated when CPS threatened to place Jace in foster care if she did not sign over custody to Barbara, according to the memoir (and confirmed by Barbara).

“I felt like a frightened animal backed into a corner,” she writes. “I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to give over custody of my son, but I didn’t want to risk losing him forever to a strange family.”

In order to do “what I thought was the right thing,” she signed over custody to Barbara and vowed she “would get him back and would be a great single mom.”

Amid what Jenelle describe as a years-long, “nightmarish battle,” Barbara tells PEOPLE she did call Child Protective Services to intervene.

“She was supposed to do family therapy and she never made the meeting,” says Barbara. “She was supposed to meet with [the Department of Family Services], and DFS told me, ‘If you don’t take Jace, Barbara, he’s going into the system.’ ”

“I said, ‘Oh no, he’s not going. I’ll take him.’ [Jenelle] wasn’t around, she was never around,” she continued. “She never took care of that baby.”

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Bridget]

13 hours ago, jumper sage said:

What?  Do tell!  I missed it by clicking away.

Check out my post up thread re: Roxanne grabbing a plate before jumping up on the booth. It happens really fast, so you might have to rewind your recording/live TV (if you have that option).

Also - was that MTV security that intervened? I suspect it was. I also wonder if they get hazard pay or if they lost a bet/pissed someone off to be stuck with Roxanne.

[sandwoman]

Finally catching up and watching this week's episode. Here are some random questions that ran through my head during Jenelle's segments: Why are there so many empty chairs at Jenelle's wedding? Why does everything look so cheap? Why is Jenelle having a friend do her hair and make-up instead of hiring someone to do it? Why does Jace's suit look like it's at least 3 sizes too big? Why does David's hair look like a wig? Why is their ceremony so short?

And here's what I thought during Chelsea's: WATSON IS THE CUTEST!!! Aubree is also the cuteness! I love seeing how she's such a big sister and she seems so happy and secure. She's going to have rough times with Adam as her dad but having Chelsea, Cole and little Watson in her life is going to help her stay resilient and awesome. Her message made me tear up, it was just sweet and genuine. 

And just wow.... the contrast of the two wedding... one a real couple with family and friends who love them, the other a pair of grifter fakers who could barely rustle up guests. Both were "rustic" weddings but one had time and care put into it and the other... well... I would love to see an accounting of how Jenelle spends her money. We know she gets paid. Where does it go? 

 

Kail's segments... Javi's sister seems nice... Kail is a mess of a person, but I actually think she has a sweet, normal rapport with Isaac and Lincoln. Like... I think she loves them as best as she can if that makes sense. It's interesting to how this messy, crazy extended family is working, with seeing Lincoln be excited to see Vivi, Javi and Vee hugging, etc. It's going to be weird for little Lux with Isaac and Lincoln having such involved dads... I hope his dad ends up being more present than it seems he is from social media, etc.

As for Leah... Addy is a firecracker and I loved the scene of Jeremy's mom telling her about her dad's first day. I'm glad she has a close relationship with "white haired grandma"

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, TheRealT said:

I think that most people, when faced with a child they love/have raised since birth who says he's afraid of his mom's boyfriend (who has a documented history of assaulting his pregnant partner and comes off as creepy as fuck) would err toward believing their grandchild and being critical/suspicious of the boyfriend. Personally, I would be very critical of anyone who did otherwise.

If Barb believed Jace, didn't he deserve more than for her to just be critical/suspicious of David?  Like not send him to stay with someone he's afraid of? 

There wasn't a visitation agreement and any time Jace spent with Jenelle and David was at Barb's discretion.  So she chose to send him over there.   I just can't believe someone who has only the kid's best interest in mind would do that, so I have to believe there's something else going on.

 

2 minutes ago, sandwoman said:

Kail is a mess of a person, but I actually think she has a sweet, normal rapport with Isaac and Lincoln. Like... I think she loves them as best as she can if that makes sense.

That girl is seriously messed up and I don't think she'd doing her kids any favors by having different fathers for each of them, but she did seem rather sweet and normal in the scene with the new baby.

And I gather Javi is dating Brianna?  What in the world is he thinking?  Is Brianna going to move to be near him?  And leave the coven?  No.  Is he going to move to be near Brianna?  I would hope not because that would mean leaving Lincoln.  Unless Kail has her eye on the Orlando market to ply her journalism skills and will follow him down there.  But Jo's probably not going to go for that.  It just seems really stupid.  I mean, it's stupid to get involved with Brianna in the first place, never mind when the logistics are pretty much impossible. 

[Christina]

34 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

If Barb believed Jace, didn't he deserve more than for her to just be critical/suspicious of David?  Like not send him to stay with someone he's afraid of? 

There wasn't a visitation agreement and any time Jace spent with Jenelle and David was at Barb's discretion.  So she chose to send him over there.   I just can't believe someone who has only the kid's best interest in mind would do that, so I have to believe there's something else going on.

SHE DID! She stopped allowing him to go to The Land. She stopped it for months.

[GreatKazu]

33 minutes ago, Christina said:

SHE DID! She stopped allowing him to go to The Land. She stopped it for months.

Yes she did. Also, Jace was saying he was afraid of David AFTER the court matter was finalized. By then, Barb had to abide by the order or face violating it.

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[leighroda]

Question... am I the only one whose parents/grandparents used country crock containers as Tupperware and had a moment of nostalgia... At first glance I didn’t think anything of it because I assumed it was leftovers, until about 3/4ths of a second later when I realized it was actually butter (or margerine I guess) 

[ava111]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:47 PM, nikita said:

Watson is mini-Randilicious.

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I need to remember when Jo was showing his ass, he was living in close quarters with Kail. 'Nuff said LOL

Everyone who lives in close quarters with Kail gets nasty. Javi turned pretty nasty to Jo himself. Now that he is free of Kail he goes back to being nice guy. Still a fame whore but normal. Hope Isaac will never gets the nasty personality traits his mom possess. He seems to have Jo's manners. 

[ReadMeLattice]

7 hours ago, KittyKat133 said:

I know this has already been said in some context but I have to say it again. 

Yes devoid is a deadbeat but he wasn't wrong. They have been keeping him from

his daughter. He doesn't want to sit in their freaking living room to see her like when you go to visit a puppy and they put you in those side rooms. 

Can't he not drive? Or at least he couldn't for a long time? Where else is he supposed to see her? I don't think they can be reasonably expected to drive somewhere to drop Nova off with someone who has no reliable transportation. Especially since the lack of transportation is likely due to law breaking, and for years it appears they all worked and he did not.  

Edited November 9, 2017 by Lm2162

[AirQuotes]

3 hours ago, leighroda said:

Question... am I the only one whose parents/grandparents used country crock containers as Tupperware and had a moment of nostalgia... At first glance I didn’t think anything of it because I assumed it was leftovers, until about 3/4ths of a second later when I realized it was actually butter (or margerine I guess) 

You're not the only one!  It wasn't clicking with me either that she was eating the "butter" because that's southern tupperware.   Growing up we had an impressive collection of Cool Whip tupperware!

[Mkay]

9 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Respectfully, do you think UBT is an abuser (in which case Barb was wrong to allow Jace to visit them) or that he isn't an abuser (in which case Barb has treated him unfairly)?

My personal opinion is that he is abusive (at minimum emotionally/verbally, but probably also physically to Kaiser (at least) and probably Jenelle as well). That's my opinion, based on various things. I don't claim that it's sufficient evidence to convict UBT of assault or child abuse or whatever, but I don't feel bad disparaging/accusing him on a message board. I don't think Barb had hard proof or a solid allegation of physical abuse toward Jace, so there was little she could do legally.

Still, I wouldn't expect her to tell Jace to shut up about being scared of UBT and be "civil" (as Jenelle demanded) because there wasn't sufficient proof to legally convict him of anything. That seems unreasonable to me. I think that most people, when faced with a child they love/have raised since birth who says he's afraid of his mom's boyfriend (who has a documented history of assaulting his pregnant partner and comes off as creepy as fuck) would err toward believing their grandchild and being critical/suspicious of the boyfriend. Personally, I would be very critical of anyone who did otherwise.

Don’t forget that the rule Jenelle and David are supposed to follow, according to cour documents, is that David can not discipline Jace. Either something happened, or Jace witnessed it being done to Someone else I’m the house, or he told his therapist something we don’t know.  Maybe Barbara just didn’t want David to jerk Jace around. Whatever the reason, David can not discipline Jace.  That says a lot to me. 

[AirQuotes]

On 11/6/2017 at 8:48 PM, druzy said:

Knowing how Jeremy loves to surprise Addie, I was sure he would be posing as the bus driver when the bus doors opened.

This made me laugh so much. 

[MaggieG]

Barb needs a friend like Chelsey Grace! Can we get those two together?!

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 hours ago, sandwoman said:

Finally catching up and watching this week's episode. Here are some random questions that ran through my head during Jenelle's segments: Why are there so many empty chairs at Jenelle's wedding? Why does everything look so cheap? Why is Jenelle having a friend do her hair and make-up instead of hiring someone to do it? Why does Jace's suit look like it's at least 3 sizes too big? Why does David's hair look like a wig? Why is their ceremony so short?

I don't think we saw the entire ceremony. 

But I could understand if they opted for a relatively short one, since I could imagine them sinking deeper into the sod as the minutes passed.  Not to mention the chairs, as well--at least the ones with people in them.

 

8 hours ago, Christina said:

SHE DID! She stopped allowing him to go to The Land. She stopped it for months.

 

8 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Yes she did. Also, Jace was saying he was afraid of David AFTER the court matter was finalized. By then, Barb had to abide by the order or face violating it.

I thought she stopped letting him go over there not long before their court date, which was in May.  I remember the mother's day meltdown (also in May), and I think Jenelle was supposed to get Jace but Barb said not if David was around, and it caused a huge fight.  It didn't seem to me like it was after months of not being allowed to see him.

I did read a story that Barb finally drew the line after the fight at the restaurant where David was videoing.  If Jace didn't say he was afraid of David until after the court date, then I guess that wasn't the reason she stopped letting Jace go over there.  If it coincided, instead, with the fight at the restaurant, then it appears it had more to do with Barb's anger at David over how he was treating her, and not Jace.

Whatever--she's shown what I consider poor judgment in how she's handled Jace and Jenelle's visitation all along, where everything was at her discretion.  The last thing Jenelle needs is something nebulous, which is what they had until the court date, because it just leads, as we've seen over and over, to arguing.   And it's tempting to think, "Who cares what Jenelle needs?"  I feel the same way, except Jenelle is who Barb is sending Jace off to spend time with, and the instability does him no good.

[ilovebeaarthur]

8 hours ago, leighroda said:

Question... am I the only one whose parents/grandparents used country crock containers as Tupperware and had a moment of nostalgia... At first glance I didn’t think anything of it because I assumed it was leftovers, until about 3/4ths of a second later when I realized it was actually butter (or margerine I guess) 

My mom used I Can't Believe it's Not Butter containers to store leftovers, so it was always a surprise when you opened the lid! When Addie was eating, I was hoping it was mashed potatoes or something, not butter.

[NannyBails]

8 hours ago, leighroda said:

Question... am I the only one whose parents/grandparents used country crock containers as Tupperware and had a moment of nostalgia... At first glance I didn’t think anything of it because I assumed it was leftovers, until about 3/4ths of a second later when I realized it was actually butter (or margerine I guess) 

I don't eat margarine, cottage cheese or yogurt anymore, but up until I stopped a few years ago, I was still re-using those containers.   They were great for freezing homemade broth.   (hides head in shame)

[GreatKazu]

Butter containers = Mexican Tupperware. 

Growing up, my mom re-used those containers for leftovers alongside her actual Tupperware stuff. Hard to know what was butter and what had leftovers in it until you opened it. Ahh memories. That was so long ago. I miss my mom. Fuck you, Jenelle for disrespecting and hating the mom you have in your life because I sure would do just about anything to have five minutes with mine who I haven't held in my arms for decades. 

Quote

I thought she stopped letting him go over there not long before their court date, which was in May. 

I will respond only to this since this particular topic has been done to death and everyone has already responded. We don't need the mods to remind us of the rules.

Barb did keep Jace from going with Jenelle up until May, when the court matter was finalized. Now, she was court-ordered to send Jace to be with his bio mother. It was when Jace began to say he didn't want to be around David. Kidding. Not kidding. Jace has been voicing his concerns in a "just kidding" manner.  Barb cannot pursue it in a courtroom because chances are Jace is taking back his statements out of fear. Poor Jace is probably getting brain washed while at Jenelle's after his scenes were aired where he told Jenelle he didn't care for David.  

7 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Can't he not drive? Or at least he couldn't for a long time? Where else is he supposed to see her? I don't think they can be reasonably expected to drive somewhere to drop Nova off with someone who has no reliable transportation. Especially since the lack of transportation is likely due to law breaking, and for years it appears they all worked and he did not.  

He apparently didn't have a license. I think Briana was cool with that being the case because it gave her more control over Nova. There is public transportation. Somehow, Devoin was able to visit here and there with Nova. How he got there, I have no clue. 

As for the coven working, they had to work. They didn't have a cushy MTV check to fall back on. I have a feeling if Briana was still pulling in TM3 money, she would park her fat fake ass on the couch like Amber. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Can't he not drive? Or at least he couldn't for a long time? Where else is he supposed to see her? I don't think they can be reasonably expected to drive somewhere to drop Nova off with someone who has no reliable transportation. Especially since the lack of transportation is likely due to law breaking, and for years it appears they all worked and he did not.  

I agree that Devoid has been a slug of a human being and if he wants to see his daughter, he should have a license and his own place and the means to care for her. THAT being said, I bet even if he did all those things, The Coven would find a way for him to only visit Nova in their cramped apartment while she plays on her iPad. They will always find a reason. 

[HeySandyStrange]

56 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

As for the coven working, they had to work. They didn't have a cushy MTV check to fall back on. I have a feeling if Briana was still pulling in TM3 money, she would park her fat fake ass on the couch like Amber

I agree. My guess is, if the Coven were living as nice as they were in 16&P and TM3 and/or had had TM3 money throughout the years, Briana would be happily sitting at home, swiping on Tinder for her next baby daddy. Even now I suspect she is the one with the minimum wage job out of the three and needed a lot of financial help from the rest of the Coven, what with the popping out kids she can't afford on her own. She better hope TM2 lasts a couple of more seasons to where she could get on par with the other momses' salaries, and she (aka Brit&Rox) better invest the TM2 money wisely.

[CaliforniaLove]

Quote

Devoin saying what he said about Briana's dad not being there. I can't go to my DVR right now because my husband is watching television, but just going by my memory, it seemed as if he was trying to say something along the lines of how Briana didn't have her dad in her life and he didn't want the same for his daughter. Is that right?

I didn't get that impression at all, and that would imply that he actually thinks about someone other than his pathetic self. I think it was a retort to what they had said about him being a loser, or whatever he saw them call him on tv...I took it as "stop calling me a bad father. How do you even know how a father is supposed to behave when you never had one yourself?" Devoin sucks, and IMO deserves the Coven treatment. 

[Eater of Worlds]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:38 PM, Persianpear said:

Addie eating that butter straight out of the country crock container with that knife had to be one of the more disturbing scenes I've seen on this show.Wtf?

I'll go to hell, but that scene reminded me of when I was visiting my parents and my dog stole a super sized tub of margarine off the counter and ate the whole thing.  It wasn't country crock tub sized, more like the size of 2 or three  regular margarine tubs.  All I could think of was "Were Addie's shits as slick as my dog's were that night?"

[TwirlyGirly]

15 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

One more thing to add to this discussion. This is what Barb told PEOPLE Magazine about what set the wheels in motion about Jace being placed in her custody. CPS was involved and foster care was where Jace was headed if Barb didn't accept custody of him: http://people.com/tv/teen-mom-jenelle-evans-barbara-evans-custody-dispute/

<snip> “Back when Jenelle was a teen, tensions escalated when CPS threatened to place Jace in foster care if she did not sign over custody to Barbara, according to the memoir (and confirmed by Barbara).

'I felt like a frightened animal backed into a corner,' she writes. 'I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to give over custody of my son, but I didn’t want to risk losing him forever to a strange family.'

In order to do 'what I thought was the right thing,' she signed over custody to Barbara and vowed she 'would get him back and would be a great single mom.'" <snip>

 

Here's a thought, Jenelle.

The "right thing to do" would have been to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CARING FOR YOUR SON.

You experienced an unplanned pregnancy.

At that point, you had three options as to how to proceed:

1. Have an abortion.

2. Continue the pregnancy and put your baby up for adoption.

3. Continue the pregnancy and raise your child.

You elected option #3. That choice required you to make sacrifices you were apparently unwilling to make - one of those being giving up the free-wheeling life of a teenager to care for another human being for the next 18 years. Once reality set in, you chose NOT to make those sacrifices and thought you could pass the responsibility for caring for your child onto your mother, while still laying claim to the tile of "mother" yourself. I suspect you planned to pass the "scut work" of child-rearing onto your mom, and occasionally pop into Jace's life for the "fun stuff." That's not how motherhood works. Strike 1.

When CPS got involved, you were given certain requirements you had to meet in order to retain custody of your child. Once again, you refused to make the necessary sacrifices to meet those requirements. Strike 2. (And possibly strikes 3, 4, and 5 or more, because IMO CPS gives parents far too many chances to clean up their act before the swoop in and issue ultimatums).

By the time CPS DID give you an ultimatum requiring you to either sign over custody of your son to your mother or have him put into foster care, you'd had multiple chances to straighten yourself out and become the parent you needed to be to ensure your child's health, safety, and well-being. But instead of putting your son first, you put Jenelle first every. single. time.

If anyone was "backed into a corner" like an "animal," it was YOUR SON - not YOU. Why? Because like a puppy or kitten, he didn't ask to be born, but once you made the decision not only to continue your pregnancy, but also to take responsibility for him, you FAILED HIM MULTIPLE TIMES. And, like a puppy or kitten, he COULD NOT care for himself and was completely reliant on others for his very LIFE.

So spare me, Jenelle, all the pleas for sympathy. You made your choice. You are not the wronged party here. Your SON is. And, your mother. Because neither one of them asked for this, but both of them are paying for it.

And to make it all even worse? You haven't learned a damn thing.

(Thanks, all. I feel much better now).

Edited November 9, 2017 by TwirlyGirly
Spelling!

[GreatKazu]

32 minutes ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I didn't get that impression at all, and that would imply that he actually thinks about someone other than his pathetic self. I think it was a retort to what they had said about him being a loser, or whatever he saw them call him on tv...I took it as "stop calling me a bad father. How do you even know how a father is supposed to behave when you never had one yourself?" Devoin sucks, and IMO deserves the Coven treatment. 

I just watched the scene on my DVR. It is hard to decipher with all the bleeps and cross-talk, but after rewinding three times it seems as if Devoin is saying, "She doesn't even know what it is like to have a dad" inferring Nova doesn't get to spend time with him not that Briana doesn't know what it is like to have a dad. He had pointed out the times Nova wants to be with him and the coven kept it from happening. I could be totally wrong, but my head hurts and I don't want to rewind that scene again. 

Did anyone else hear it that way? 

@TwirlyGirly exactly.

According to Jenelle, Barb is this evil bitch and terrible mother. If Barb was such an evil and terrible mother to her, what does that say about Jenelle for having put Jace in her mother's care and custody? For all this jibberish about Barb not keeping Jace away from Jenelle, how about pointing the finger at the BIO MOTHER? The one who started this whole thing in the first place. The one who had chance after chance to redeem herself and keep her son from being put with evil Barb in the first place.  

Edited November 9, 2017 by GreatKazu

[heatherchandler]

18 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

The people who know vastly more about the situation than we do are taking actions that are very contrary to the opinions here, and there has to be a reason.  The main difference between them and us, as far as I can discern, is that we see the 15 minutes a week that MTV shows us while they see it all in real life, and what they see in real life (and we don't) causes them to make the decisions they do. 

I understand what you are saying with this, but we all know for a fact that David is abusive.  He threw his pregnant girlfriend out of a car.  That is not a one-off decision normal people make.  That is what probably ended up being the last of a series of abusive situations the poor girl endured.  

The friend was probably thinking - hey, be nicey nice and maybe Jenelle and UBT will play nice too.  And with normal people, this is good advice (be the bigger person even though you KNOW you are right).  The thing is, Barb cannot play nice because she knows his true history and she fucking hates him.  I hate him from what I know to be true.

As far as her back and forth letting Jenelle have Jace, she is making decisions based on her gut.  She wants him to have a relationship with Jenelle.  She is also afraid that UBT will hurt him.  She probably goes back and forth.  I am sure it would be easier for her nerves, along with everything else if she could just cut off contact with Jenelle alltogether.  But she was actually trying to keep a relationship.  UNTIL Jace said he was afraid.  Then it stopped until the court order.  It is pretty cut and dry to me.

Edited November 9, 2017 by heatherchandler

[Sprockets]

8 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

You elected option #3.

But she didn't.  She elected Option 4: Do Nothing and See What Happens.  This is the option she always selects in every situation.  Then when she runs into a wall she starts screaming that it's someone else's fault.  This what she and others like her do, and they always will.  You cannot expect them to listen to reason.  Well, you can expect it, but they won't.  They are on impulse power only.  

5 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Did anyone else hear it that way? 

Yes, I did.  

[GreatKazu]

3 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

But she didn't.  She elected Option 4: Do Nothing and See What Happens.  This is the option she always selects in every situation.  Then when she runs into a wall she starts screaming that it's someone else's fault.  This what she and others like her do, and they always will.  You cannot expect them to listen to reason.  Well, you can expect it, but they won't.  They are on impulse power only.  

Yes, I did.  

Oh good. I felt like for a moment I am the only one. 

I went ahead and rewinded it two more times. He is talking about Nova and how those cock-suckers are talking about "loser dads" in front of her. He seems to be trying to say his daughter wanted to spend time with him at that lunch and look at how it turned out. It also sounded like he was saying about the coven and their audacity to talk about "loser dads" should not be said to Nova or in her presence. Seriously, he is right. We didn't like when Chelsea or Kail said shit about the dads in front of their kids, the same holds for Briana and the rest of them. STFU already about the guys you chose to fuck and have babies with. Sorry ass mutherfucking bitches. 

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I didn't get that impression at all, and that would imply that he actually thinks about someone other than his pathetic self. I think it was a retort to what they had said about him being a loser, or whatever he saw them call him on tv...I took it as "stop calling me a bad father. How do you even know how a father is supposed to behave when you never had one yourself?" Devoin sucks, and IMO deserves the Coven treatment. 

Agreed. It is not Briana's and Brittany's fault that they don't have a father. Making fun of someone for that is trashy, no matter what they said to you. 

They all clearly cannot have a mature interaction and it's all inappropriate for Nova to be around. They should have a clear visitation schedule and see each other for dropoffs only. That is, if Devoin gets a license. There should not be any "co-parenting" going on here. 

2 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

 

As for the coven working, they had to work. They didn't have a cushy MTV check to fall back on. I have a feeling if Briana was still pulling in TM3 money, she would park her fat fake ass on the couch like Amber. 

Right, but my point is not about their morals or work ethic, my point is that since he didn't work, he should have had plenty of time to see her and fight for more visitation, but did not. We can speculate that they wouldn't like him no matter what they did, and I agree because Brianna is very immature and aggressive, but the fact is he has done nothing, so it's kind of moot in my mind what they WOULD do if he was a decent dad. He's not. 

I don't understand for the life of me why there is no visitation arrangement in place. These people should not be interacting. What a bunch of ridiculous BS for a kid to see.

[Sprockets]

52 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I went ahead and rewinded it two more times.

Oh my dear fiancée, I am concerned for you.  It appears from your usage you may have a touch of Jenellitis.  Have you been feeling dramastic?  Please take very good care of yourself.