S02.E07: The Most Disappointed Man

[Blakeston]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

I disagree on this one, I think the "don't like how they make me feel" was an excuse because he knew what happened last time. He didn't want to admit he was addicted to them before. I've heard addicts who were clean say that line or "I'm allergic to Codeine and most pain killers" I didn't like how Codeine made my stomach feel, but Percocet for one day when I got a tooth pulled was fine.  Kevin was afraid of the pills and his sister knew something.

Are you saying Kate knew he had a pill addiction problem in the past?

If she knew, then she's been even more asleep at the wheel than usual. She and Toby knew that Kevin had taken painkillers after filming the movie. If she had any idea about his past, that should have been a huge warning sign that he was headed down a very dangerous road.

And when he acted distracted and strung-out, it should have been painfully obvious why.

[CelticBlackCat]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

THIS, especially because as far as we know Toby did not get divorced because it was a mentally or physically abusive relationship, or because one of them was cheating.  A very conservative Catholic parent would be deeply upset that their child married and divorced young , and no grandchildren resulted from the marriage on top of that.  After that, I think a mother should/would be happy (or at least not that upset) that her child is marrying a woman and they're having a baby.

Not a conservative Catholic.  First of all, Kate isn't Catholic, having a baby before marriage is a no-no, unless they get married before the birth, but still there was premarital sex involved.  I don't know how conservative "conservative Catholics" really are these days, especially in America, but back in the day, well, ... it would not go over well.

[Neurochick]

I don't have much good to say about Deja's mother.

Did she really ask Randall if his wife was white because in her tiny mind, black girls aren't cheerleaders?  Didn't the woman see "Bring it On?"

[RachelKM]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't have much good to say about Deja's mother.

Did she really ask Randall if his wife was white because in her tiny mind, black girls aren't cheerleaders?  Didn't the woman see "Bring it On?"

I think it was even more general than that.  She viewed him as insufficiently black generally, which is shitty. Both of them were judgmental assholes in that scene.  

But from a human perspective, I think they both had motive to view the other in the worst possible light because it justifies their respective positions and feelings.  Randall had a ton of prejudices (justified or otherwise) about Deja's mom and he feels protective and attached to Deja.  Seeing the mom as a selfish person who is bad for Deja on every level makes him feel more justified in his growing attachment.  And the mom likely feels defensive and needs to find ways in which the foster family is inadequate because she knows she hasn't done well by her daughter and she needs to feel justified in her need for her daughter. Also, she seemed to have an offense is the best defense perspective.  Don't think it was well done by either of them, but I get it.

[Neurochick]

16 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

But from a human perspective, I think they both had motive to view the other in the worst possible light because it justifies their respective positions and feelings.  Randall had a ton of prejudices (justified or otherwise) about Deja's mom and he feels protective and attached to Deja.  Seeing the mom as a selfish person who is bad for Deja on every level makes him feel more justified in his growing attachment.  And the mom likely feels defensive and needs to find ways in which the foster family is inadequate because she knows she hasn't done well by her daughter and she needs to feel justified in her need for her daughter. Also, she seemed to have an offense is the best defense perspective.  Don't think it was well done by either of them, but I get it.

I can see that....

But human beings are also able to see where they have screwed up.  I mean Deja's mother is in prison because she allowed her ex whatever to manipulate her.  I don't buy that, "well that's how humans are."  We aren't 100% run on instinct.  We can admit we're wrong.

[RachelKM]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I can see that....

But human beings are also able to see where they have screwed up.  I mean Deja's mother is in prison because she allowed her ex whatever to manipulate her.  I don't buy that, "well that's how humans are."  We aren't 100% run on instinct.  We can admit we're wrong.

Oh, certainly.  I did say they were both assholes. It's human to be assholes.  It does not excuse it or make it okay.  It's just human.  And it's not okay for nether of them to l gain perspective.  One of Randall's defining characteristics is his rigidity.  Beth is usually his moderating influence, so it generally requires an external force; but he is capable of adjusting and I believe and hope he will.  I have less hope for Deja's mom.  But we'll see on both counts. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Not a conservative Catholic.  First of all, Kate isn't Catholic, having a baby before marriage is a no-no, unless they get married before the birth, but still there was premarital sex involved.  I don't know how conservative "conservative Catholics" really are these days, especially in America, but back in the day, well, ... it would not go over well.

Conservative Catholics wouldn't be pleased with divorce, either.  And Toby is divorced.

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Are you saying Kate knew he had a pill addiction problem in the past?

If she knew, then she's been even more asleep at the wheel than usual. She and Toby knew that Kevin had taken painkillers after filming the movie. If she had any idea about his past, that should have been a huge warning sign that he was headed down a very dangerous road.

And when he acted distracted and strung-out, it should have been painfully obvious why.

It's not clear if he had a problem before. The way she reacted on the phone when he told her about the injury let people assume there had been a problem but it could also have been simple worry about his health.

Whatever happened to Kate and Kevin's (not-)twin mental bond? In the pilot they could sense when the other freaked out over a turbulence when flying. And now one is pregnant and the other one slips into addiction and zilch. I blame Toby.

[Katy M]

17 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Conservative Catholics wouldn't be pleased with divorce, either.  And Toby is divorced.

And, I'm sure his  mother is not pleased with that.  And would be less pleased with a remarriage to someone else.  And less pleased with a baby conceived out of wedlock.

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

Whatever happened to Kate and Kevin's (not-)twin mental bond? In the pilot they could sense when the other freaked out over a turbulence when flying. And now one is pregnant and the other one slips into addiction and zilch. I blame Toby.

Maybe the pregnancy hormones are messing with the telepathy.

[Venee]

Just now, BoogieBurns said:

@kili It's different here.

Cheerleaders are the ones who are gymnasts and cheer by the field throughout games. They chant and wear minimal clothing for all the tricks they can do. They are also the ones who get in pyramids, like in Bring It On.

ColorGuard is the group of gals who hold flags and barely dance while marching band accompanies them. They basically are baton twirlers with flags instead of batons. This group wears black and are the most modestly dressed of the three groups. They are a part of the band at all practices. Sorry to stereotype, but these were not the coolest girls, so I don't think this is where Deja would go. 

Drill Team, the best of the three, is the group that dances at Pep Rallies and during halftime shows. They are similar to the Rockettes. This group dresses for the occasion and sits together during football games with "seated choreography". Drill Team was the ONLY one of the three that (at my school) had black girls (one of them being yours truly). It was all about rhythm and natural talent. I think the difference to Deja's mom makes more sense if she was talking about this type of Drill Team. The dancers. 

This is definitely not accurate and I'm guessing it depends on your exposure and experience. Drill team is not the "Best" of the three it is just one of the three.

Cheerleaders at the top level can be some of the most athletic groups around. The training that it takes can be relentless. Considering the competition groups have dance breaks inserted, it takes a combination of athleticism, rhythm and skill for groups at the top of their game. I've seen some amazing Cheerleading groups from Tots to College level comprised of girls of all colors.

 

Colorguard is where you were most wrong, or maybe you've never seen the real deal. Yes Colorgaurds do flag work, but the real ones do soooo much more. Did you know there is an entire organization called WGI where Colorgaurds at levels from Middle school to young adult compete? They dance, wear elaborate costumes and don't do just flag work, they also work with rifles and sabors it requires a major amount of coordination dance and skill as well.  They also are members of Highschool bands, and a another organization called DCI (a summer program that is marching band on steroids) Some of the best dancers around are members of Colorguard. 

 

Here's DCI :

 

Drill team is sometimes a blanket term and it gets interchanged with Dance team, I'd only be speculating as to which style she was referring to. It could be the style popularized by HBCU majorette teams like shown on the show "Bring It".  Dejas just 12 so I don't see how a Marching Band would be involved in an Elementary school or even Middleschool activity or it could be more on the drill team dance end. 

 

okay I have to slip this one on here, because it showed up on my Dance/Drill team search... it was definitely LIT who knew BYU had it goin on like that lol

[BoogieBurns]

Oh, I was being (un)funny when I said drill team was "the best" because I was on drill team. That's all that made it the best. I was on a dance team at my HBCU which functioned almost exactly like my drill team in high school. Definitely interchangeable words.

[ShadowFacts]

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Whatever happened to Kate and Kevin's (not-)twin mental bond? In the pilot they could sense when the other freaked out over a turbulence when flying. And now one is pregnant and the other one slips into addiction and zilch. I blame Toby.

I blame the Pearson penchant for self-absorption.  They really are navel-gazers at times. 

[elle]

On 11/8/2017 at 7:10 PM, BoogieBurns said:

Oh, I would not count that out. Bryan Tyree Henry who played Randall's second cousin (William's bandmate & first cousin) is best friends with Sterling K Brown. Also, there have been interviews saying we will dig into William's life at various points, last night showed two different bits of William we have never seen; there are more to come. Bryan says he definitely wants to return. I read that Randall having extended family will not end with the Memphis episode. Of course I can't find any sources now to link for you!

Thank you for this info!  I would be interested in watching Randall explore his birth family and introduce his children to them.

Quote

MissLucas:  Whatever happened to Kate and Kevin's (not-)twin mental bond? In the pilot they could sense when the other freaked out over a turbulence when flying. And now one is pregnant and the other one slips into addiction and zilch. I blame Toby.

I blame the writers! (btw: is your first name Charlotte?)

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

KatyM: Maybe the pregnancy hormones are messing with the telepathy.

Makes sense, plus one can blame everything on pregnancy hormones. (/tic)

On 11/9/2017 at 4:38 AM, voiceover said:

I don't know what the real-life statistics are, but it happened in a 1979 Steve Martin film.

Voiceover, your posts so often crack me up!  TCM ! :0)

Edited November 10, 2017 by elle

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Are you saying Kate knew he had a pill addiction problem in the past?

If she knew, then she's been even more asleep at the wheel than usual. She and Toby knew that Kevin had taken painkillers after filming the movie. If she had any idea about his past, that should have been a huge warning sign that he was headed down a very dangerous road.

And when he acted distracted and strung-out, it should have been painfully obvious why.

I forgot the conversation but it seemed it at the time and "your just like Dad" had some meaning. He really didn't want to take them but wanted to work and was in too much pain. Like many addicts he probably felt, a lot of time has gone by, maybe it wont matter now. I also know it was a bad break and his dad died soon after it so the pain was not just from the leg. It wouldn't be a stretch that he used a lot of medication then and back then the restrictions on use and how much could be given were looser. Oxycontin and others are so addictive.

It was sad that the necklace Jack gave him from his army days if I remember correctly, was all he had left of him. That was blurred the first time for me because so much was going on but later re watching it, it was so poignant and sad. A magazine said:

His (likely) brash decision in the distant past to do away with the models he and his father built together when he was younger rests heavily on Kevin, his voice breaking with emotion as he reveals the only tangible thing he has left of his father: a necklace Jack used to wear.

“I have this -- this necklace, this is his, and it’s the only thing I have left of him, and at first I didn’t want to wear it, I wouldn’t wear it, I wouldn’t even look at it but now it’s all I have now, I can’t take it off now,” Kevin says, unexpectedly crying over his father years later.

Makes me wonder about the fire, could it have been a different time?  They made it look awful in the last scene with Rebecca in the car but photos, VHS tapes and airplanes didn't get ruined?

Edited November 10, 2017 by debraran

[Venee]

Just now, BoogieBurns said:

Oh, I was being (un)funny when I said drill team was "the best" because I was on drill team. That's all that made it the best. I was on a dance team at my HBCU which functioned almost exactly like my drill team in high school. Definitely interchangeable words.

ahh I should have picked that up, it was hard to tell what was tongue and cheek with the descriptions lol. I actually did Colorguard at the highschool / DCI level and Dance team in Highschool, which is why I responded as I did. There are some guards out there, just like there are some Cheerleading teams and drill teams, that leave much to be desired, but at the top levels it's an entire different ball game. Getting back to the subject, Randall's answer was clueless, cheerleading tryouts are always at the end of the prior year, he couldn't just walk in and demand she be on the team anyway. I side with the bio Mom on keeping her at her school UNLESS she was receiving an education that was not up to standards.

[ClareWalks]

Not sure how far away the school is, I would think uprooting her from her current school would be a bad idea but maybe it's like 90 minutes each way or something.

[ChromaKelly]

8 minutes ago, Venee said:

ahh I should have picked that up, it was hard to tell what was tongue and cheek with the descriptions lol. I actually did Colorguard at the highschool / DCI level and Dance team in Highschool, which is why I responded as I did. There are some guards out there, just like there are some Cheerleading teams and drill teams, that leave much to be desired, but at the top levels it's an entire different ball game. Getting back to the subject, Randall's answer was clueless, cheerleading tryouts are always at the end of the prior year, he couldn't just walk in and demand she be on the team anyway. I side with the bio Mom on keeping her at her school UNLESS she was receiving an education that was not up to standards.

I think Randall is forgetting the whole "temporary" part of foster care. Foster parents are supposed to keep the child's life as consistent as possible, provided there are no safety concerns. As in, family members that are unsafe and they are trying to keep the child from them. He really should not be changing schools. The whole drill team/cheerleading thing was just thrown in to be a "black girls do drill team/white girls do cheer" to get that dig in that Randall isn't black enough. It makes no sense in the context of real life. She's 12, don't know how many cheer or drill teams there are in middle school, and the season is half over.
Heck foster parents aren't even supposed to cut or significantly change the kid's hair. That's a big thing in one of the hair/skincare groups for foster/adoptive parents I'm in. 

[BigDave]

I thought Randall's reaction was fine, too. He was supposed to be out of line. He's new to this process and the woman put him in his place. I thought that was the whole point. 

The character I cannot stand is Kate. The young Kate is great, but the present day one is the most unlikable person on the show by a landslide. No redeeming qualities at all. I actually think Kevin's character is at least interesting due to the addiction issues. You definitely get the sense that the parents had favorites and Kevin probably felt left out as a child. I'm sure that will be expanded on, along with the addition issues.

[KaveDweller]

On 11/9/2017 at 8:02 PM, BoogieBurns said:

@kili It's different here.

Cheerleaders are the ones who are gymnasts and cheer by the field throughout games. They chant and wear minimal clothing for all the tricks they can do. They are also the ones who get in pyramids, like in Bring It On.

ColorGuard is the group of gals who hold flags and barely dance while marching band accompanies them. They basically are baton twirlers with flags instead of batons. This group wears black and are the most modestly dressed of the three groups. They are a part of the band at all practices. Sorry to stereotype, but these were not the coolest girls, so I don't think this is where Deja would go. 

Drill Team, the best of the three, is the group that dances at Pep Rallies and during halftime shows. They are similar to the Rockettes. This group dresses for the occasion and sits together during football games with "seated choreography". Drill Team was the ONLY one of the three that (at my school) had black girls (one of them being yours truly). It was all about rhythm and natural talent. I think the difference to Deja's mom makes more sense if she was talking about this type of Drill Team. The dancers. 

It's way different here too. At my high school we had traditional cheerleaders and then color guard and separate flag bearers. I was a flag bearer. We twirled with tall flags that while the color guards used short baton-like things with flags on them. We all thought flags was much better than lowly color guards. But, we actually never, ever went to band practice. We got a tape of the band playing to practice with and only ever interacted with the band on game day. Even though we wore dresses that looked more like the band uniform than anything else. 

The cheerleaders at my school were the ones that danced at pep rallies and halftime.  I had no idea what Deja's mom meant when she said drill team.

[possibilities]

When you move, you may not have a choice about staying in the school you were in before. Most places assign you to a public school based on your address. I doubt wherever Deja went to school before was private, and I doubt that it's in the same zip code as where Randall and Beth live.

[wilnil]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

When you move, you may not have a choice about staying in the school you were in before. Most places assign you to a public school based on your address. I doubt wherever Deja went to school before was private, and I doubt that it's in the same zip code as where Randall and Beth live.

As I remember the scene where the police come for Deja's mother, it's a Newark Police cruiser. Randall, IIRC, lives in Alpine, NJ, which is in Bergen County, to the north of Newark's Essex County. So getting Deja to her normal school would be technically doable but a longish trip for them to make twice a day.

[CelticBlackCat]

11 hours ago, PRgal said:

Conservative Catholics wouldn't be pleased with divorce, either.  And Toby is divorced.

Toby's mother was upset that he divorced.  Why do you think he was so reluctant to tell his mother his latest news?

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

It's not clear if he had a problem before. The way she reacted on the phone when he told her about the injury let people assume there had been a problem but it could also have been simple worry about his health.

Whatever happened to Kate and Kevin's (not-)twin mental bond? In the pilot they could sense when the other freaked out over a turbulence when flying. And now one is pregnant and the other one slips into addiction and zilch. I blame Toby.

LOL

[debraran]

13 hours ago, elle said:

Thank you for this info!  I would be interested in watching Randall explore his birth family and introduce his children to them.

I read that the producers say:

And just like Jack, William's death won't stop him from being a part of the show. He said } Ron Cephas Jones will be back, thanks to the way storytelling works on this show. It's just a matter of how and when we'll see William again, which is both great and challenging for an actor."We like to say on This Is Us: death is not a release," Requa said. "We've created a world there in Memphis. The question is: do we go play there again?"

The answer had better be yes. 

The other question I never thought about that Ron Cephas Jones mentioned in an interview, Where is Beth's family?"  They never show anyone at holiday's or mention a grandparent that lives far away. I know Beth's story isn't highlighted but now that he mentioned it, it is odd. Her character to me was always flat but I guess it's flat because we don't really know her background, how she came to be who she is.

Another interview said maybe William's bio mom and her side will be explored. That might make a good show also.

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, debraran said:

The other question I never thought about that Ron Cephas Jones mentioned in an interview, Where is Beth's family?"  They never show anyone at holiday's or mention a grandparent that lives far away. I know Beth's story isn't highlighted but now that he mentioned it, it is odd. Her character to me was always flat but I guess it's flat because we don't really know her background, how she came to be who she is.

We only know a little so far.  Her mother had gotten sick last season and Beth had to go visit her in, I think, Washington D.C., and she's talked to her sister on the phone.   She had told William that she grew up in a house full of sisters and cousins, and she liked having her first apartment all to herself.  At that point her present-day house was filling up with him and Kevin.  I believe in conversing with William and doing the edibles with him, she said she had weed leftover from when her father died, but I could be mis-remembering that.  She has mentioned her family, but they don't seem to live close. 

[ChromaKelly]

11 hours ago, wilnil said:

As I remember the scene where the police come for Deja's mother, it's a Newark Police cruiser. Randall, IIRC, lives in Alpine, NJ, which is in Bergen County, to the north of Newark's Essex County. So getting Deja to her normal school would be technically doable but a longish trip for them to make twice a day.

Doesn't CPS generally place children within their jurisdiction? As in, if Deja lives in Newark, she would be in Newark CPS custody and go to a Newark foster family?

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Doesn't CPS generally place children within their jurisdiction? As in, if Deja lives in Newark, she would be in Newark CPS custody and go to a Newark foster family?

In a perfect world, yes, but it depends on how many foster families they have in Newark opposed to how many foster children need placement.

[GenevieveS]

3 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Doesn't CPS generally place children within their jurisdiction? As in, if Deja lives in Newark, she would be in Newark CPS custody and go to a Newark foster family?

In foster parent training, I was told they "try." As Katy M says above, though, there aren't always available foster families within the county and certainly aren't always available ones within the school district. I was also told in training that I might be asked to drive a foster child to and from their school, if I wasn't in their district but the distance wasn't obstructive. It never came up, because we mostly fostered preschoolers. (The only school age children I ever had came from counties that were about an hour drive away. (Both technically, "next county over" geographically, but would have involved driving all the way across our county and at least half of theirs.) No way we could have commuted back to their schools. As it turned out, one came in the summer and stayed a full school year and the other came in the summer, spent a week at our school, then went home before his home county's school year started, so it wasn't quite as disruptive as it could have been.) In Deja's case, keeping her in her home school would be ideal (and recommended), but I'm not clear on whether it's practical.

I'm also not clear on what exactly Deja's mom did that got her arrested (other than an unlicensed weapon). It felt kind of heavy-handed, but I thought they were rushing through a natural progression that I've experienced myself and seen in a lot of fellow foster parents. You start out thinking of the biological parents as people who "deserves" to lose custody or who somehow don't value their child and at some point, you hit the wall of recognizing just how little difference there is between you and "them." Hopefully, you hit that realization in training or, at least, in private, but it's really, really easy to think the foster child is "better off" with you than with the biological parent that may be struggling with addiction issues, mental health problems, chronic under- or unemployment, or a simple lack of a healthy social support system. I can't tell you how many people tsk-tsked at the news that my placements were reunifying, questioning that decision; these were people who knew NOTHING about the case, the parents, or the process. I was perpetually feeling the need to explain exactly what Deja's mom was trying to tell Randall--the fact that they are family matters. A lot. Ultimately, I'd love to see the resolution of this storyline involve Randall and Beth becoming a part of a support network for Deja's mom that helps her keep custody. That happens and I wish we celebrated it as a society just as much as we celebrate the adoption stories.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, GenevieveS said:

In foster parent training, I was told they "try." As Katy M says above, though, there aren't always available foster families within the county and certainly aren't always available ones within the school district. I was also told in training that I might be asked to drive a foster child to and from their school, if I wasn't in their district but the distance wasn't obstructive. It never came up, because we mostly fostered preschoolers. (The only school age children I ever had came from counties that were about an hour drive away. (Both technically, "next county over" geographically, but would have involved driving all the way across our county and at least half of theirs.) No way we could have commuted back to their schools. As it turned out, one came in the summer and stayed a full school year and the other came in the summer, spent a week at our school, then went home before his home county's school year started, so it wasn't quite as disruptive as it could have been.) In Deja's case, keeping her in her home school would be ideal (and recommended), but I'm not clear on whether it's practical.

I'm also not clear on what exactly Deja's mom did that got her arrested (other than an unlicensed weapon). It felt kind of heavy-handed, but I thought they were rushing through a natural progression that I've experienced myself and seen in a lot of fellow foster parents. You start out thinking of the biological parents as people who "deserves" to lose custody or who somehow don't value their child and at some point, you hit the wall of recognizing just how little difference there is between you and "them." Hopefully, you hit that realization in training or, at least, in private, but it's really, really easy to think the foster child is "better off" with you than with the biological parent that may be struggling with addiction issues, mental health problems, chronic under- or unemployment, or a simple lack of a healthy social support system. I can't tell you how many people tsk-tsked at the news that my placements were reunifying, questioning that decision; these were people who knew NOTHING about the case, the parents, or the process. I was perpetually feeling the need to explain exactly what Deja's mom was trying to tell Randall--the fact that they are family matters. A lot. Ultimately, I'd love to see the resolution of this storyline involve Randall and Beth becoming a part of a support network for Deja's mom that helps her keep custody. That happens and I wish we celebrated it as a society just as much as we celebrate the adoption stories.

What a thoughtful and informative post.  It is so easy to demonize people who stumble.  I can see Randall coming around more when he reflects on William's life and possibly his birth mother's.  He will never get to see what we saw, that his mother was a gentle caregiver of his dying grandmother, but maybe William filled him in on some of that.  Last season we did see him asking William about her, then the scene went silent and we just saw Randall's face in rapt attention. 

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, wilnil said:

As I remember the scene where the police come for Deja's mother, it's a Newark Police cruiser. Randall, IIRC, lives in Alpine, NJ, which is in Bergen County, to the north of Newark's Essex County. So getting Deja to her normal school would be technically doable but a longish trip for them to make twice a day.

But would it technically be possible for Deja to continue at her school?  I'm not sure how catchment areas work in NJ, but here, it's notoriously difficult to go to a school outside your catchment unless there is space.  Kids who live in the area have priority.  

[AmandaPanda]

At least in Kansas, children in foster care are allowed to stay at their home school if it is close enough to their foster placement or if moving them would be detrimental to them. They're not classified as other students who move. They are allowed to keep their spot in their home school and can continue. It's the same option offered to students who are homeless and bounce between homes and shelters frequently. So, if Deja is close enough to her home school and Randall is willing to transport her, she wouldn't have to give up her home school. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, AmandaPanda said:

At least in Kansas, children in foster care are allowed to stay at their home school if it is close enough to their foster placement or if moving them would be detrimental to them. They're not classified as other students who move. They are allowed to keep their spot in their home school and can continue. It's the same option offered to students who are homeless and bounce between homes and shelters frequently. So, if Deja is close enough to her home school and Randall is willing to transport her, she wouldn't have to give up her home school. 

I was wondering about whether it would be considered a move. That's good that they do that.  On another note, I know someone who moved and there was literally less than 3 weeks of school left that year, and the child had to change schools to finish out the year.  I see a complete lack of common sense on something like that.  It wasn't going to cost the school any extra money to have a student there for 3 weeks.  Or not much anyway. IIRC she was in 3rd grade.  But, then her mother decided to get ridiculous on a bussing issue, so maybe they just wanted to get rid of her early if she was high-maintenance.

[mochamajesty]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:49 AM, Superpole2000 said:

The very last scene with the call from prison was the best part of the episode.

I am not a great fan of drug addiction storylines, and this show now has three of them. Actually, add in Jack's alcohol addiction, and we have four of these storylines. It seems a bit repetitive, especially when they bring William back from the dead for no good reason. All of this addiction storytelling feels like the writers looking for an excuse to make the characters do questionable things. A great example of this is Kevin's "nightmare" speech to Sophie. What was that crap? Could they not think of any better way to introduce more drama into their relationship? He even repeated himself just to be sure she got the insult.

Poor Toby. He always has to drag Kate out of a funk. She is such a downer...on everything...including her own wedding.

There is evidence that addictions are genetic - especially alcoholism. I totally can see Jack's biological kids as addicts - Kevin with opioids and Kate with food.

I can also see Randall, who grew up watching addicts, use his rigidity/perfectionism as a coping mechanism to ensure that addiction NEVER happens to him.

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:09 PM, Neurochick said:

I don't have much good to say about Deja's mother.

Did she really ask Randall if his wife was white because in her tiny mind, black girls aren't cheerleaders?  Didn't the woman see "Bring it On?"

She asked Randall that question because she knew that he looked down on her.

Among blacks, there can be a sense of 'They are not like us', usually from well-to-do blacks who want to dissociate themselves from Blacks that they see as low class.  There is also an attitude that some black men who have reached a certain level of success marry outside the race.  With Randall's  attitude and the way that he carried himself, she assumed that he married outside of his race.

Frankly, I can see her point. Considering his upbringing and the lack of exposure, I am surprised that he married a Black woman too - and I say this as a black woman, so keep that "If a white person said that..." to yourself.

[theatremouse]

I think the show is dealing with foster aspect in a really awkwardly ambiguous way, and this episode made it worse for me. Possibly this depends on where you live, but the families who become certified foster parents because they intend to adopt are in...for lack of better phrase...a totally separate pool of foster parents than those who are fostering for fostering, temporary, emergency placements that may last a week or a year or years but you don't know (although sure sometimes the foster parents do eventually adopt the kids if they've been with them a long time and then eventually are eligible for adoption). When the show first went this route, I thought Beth was suggesting to Randall adopting an older child out of foster care,, and thus they'd need to foster said child first. There are certainly plenty of teens who are already available for adoption. But the minute Deja showed up, she seemed to think she was going to be there temporarily, and Randall seemed to find out that first day that her mom had apparently been put away for a long time. When he said that my mind went to "years" but I realize the show didn't say that. Then in this episode he sounded like he had every intention of adopting Deja eventually, sort of like he was assuming her mom's rights would be terminated, but they clearly haven't yet. So did they get into this no longer intending to adopt, and now that they've bonded, he and Beth do want to? Or what? I know the show does the whole mystery ambiguity thing on purpose about the flashbacks, but keeping this plot vague is just annoying me. If they entered the program intending to adopt, they shoulda/coulda/woulda only had a kid placed with them who was expected to be in the system very long term and who was either already eligible to be adopted, or for whom that was a likely inevitability. At least, that's what I thought. Maybe I'm completely wrong? But I didn't think expected-to-be-temporary-placements went to foster parents whose primary intention were to adopt. Otherwise it almost feels like the show, the social worker, Beth and Randall all went into this expecting to eventually adopt Deja, but somehow no one bothered to tell Deja or her mother that's why she ended up in that house in the first place? I mean, I get that communication in these situations isn't always great, but it just seems weird and confusing.

[bros402]

8 hours ago, PRgal said:

But would it technically be possible for Deja to continue at her school?  I'm not sure how catchment areas work in NJ, but here, it's notoriously difficult to go to a school outside your catchment unless there is space.  Kids who live in the area have priority.  

Here in NJ every town has their own school district, so she would go to wherever she is zoned in Randall's town.

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, bros402 said:

Here in NJ every town has their own school district, so she would go to wherever she is zoned in Randall's town.

Foster Children in NJ are encouraged to stay in their original schools regardless of the address of their new foster homes under the Educational Stability Law.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:11 PM, debraran said:

I thought the "ashes talk" to me was odd, not if Kate did it but with Toby it felt off. I hope others didn't think so.

 

I thought the "ashes talk" was ridiculous.  As was, in a matter of hours, the ability to get 4 or whatever hoodies printed with the words needed for this grand gesture of a proposal that had already happened.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 11/11/2017 at 6:24 AM, debraran said:

"We like to say on This Is Us: death is not a release," Requa said. "We've created a world there in Memphis. The question is: do we go play there again?"

The answer had better be yes. 

 

I would vote "no" on that one.  I, personally, prefer that the show focus on the Big Three.  Going to Memphis again would focus only on William's back story and I'm not convinced that's necessary.  For what it's worth, I thought the same thing about tonight's episode, and it was only redeemed by Randall showing up at the exact right moment.

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I would vote "no" on that one.  I, personally, prefer that the show focus on the Big Three.  Going to Memphis again would focus only on William's back story and I'm not convinced that's necessary.  For what it's worth, I thought the same thing about tonight's episode, and it was only redeemed by Randall showing up at the exact right moment.

Quote

Quote

 

 

I agree to a point, I meant for fill-in, after a while, after Jack is officially dead and the 3 have gotten over their addictions, etc., it might be nice to introduce some new blood, to keep stories going and not have it be about just them without friends or relatives.

[gameshowjunkie]

Favorite episode of  the season so far. 

Randall ' s emotions around how to handle the communication between Deja and her mom reminded me so much of being a step mom to two young kids with a biomom who constantly disappointed them yet whom they would take over me in a heartbeat and constantly defended no matter what she said or did. I remember people telling me at the time that one day they would appreciate everything I did for them. They're in their late 20s now and I'm still waiting. 

Like Randall I have little patience for parents who eff up their kids' lives. Screw up all you want but once you decide to have and keep a baby, grow the eff up. Her mom came across as playing a perpetual victim. We know she's been arrested multiple times but by her account it's always someone else's fault. The man she hooked up with when she was trying to kick her drug habit - part of getting sober is not getting involved in new romantic relationships.  I'm sure I sound judgmental,  but that's how I see it.

Love seeing young William and loved the two judge interactions even though I know they're not realistic. 

And UO - I think Toby is good for Kate and will make a good, albeit overindugent, dad.

[Blakeston]

On 11/10/2017 at 6:00 PM, debraran said:

I forgot the conversation but it seemed it at the time and "your just like Dad" had some meaning. He really didn't want to take them but wanted to work and was in too much pain. Like many addicts he probably felt, a lot of time has gone by, maybe it wont matter now. I also know it was a bad break and his dad died soon after it so the pain was not just from the leg. It wouldn't be a stretch that he used a lot of medication then and back then the restrictions on use and how much could be given were looser. Oxycontin and others are so addictive.

I took Kate's "You're just like Dad" comment as being about Kevin and Jack's reluctance to talk about their pain (and a big neon sign saying to the audience, "He's an addict just like Jack was!") I didn't take it to mean that Kate knew that Kevin was a substance abuser.

It's definitely possible that the show will reveal that Kevin had a painkiller addiction as a teenager, and that Kate knew about it. But if that's what the writers are going for, I don't think the writing has been believable at all.

If you know that your beloved twin brother was addicted to opiate painkillers but got clean, and then he tells you he just took some opiate painkillers, but he didn't like the way they made him feel - you don't just say, "Okay, whatevs."

And if he's in a daze during a hugely important moment soon afterward, you don't say, "That's funny, he seemed 'off,'" and then go about your day. Even Kate isn't that bad.

And if Kevin had a painkiller addiction, and Kate knew about it, he'd have no reason to let her that he took some painkillers.

[Clanstarling]

53 minutes ago, gameshowjunkie said:

Randall ' s emotions around how to handle the communication between Deja and her mom reminded me so much of being a step mom to two young kids with a biomom who constantly disappointed them yet whom they would take over me in a heartbeat and constantly defended no matter what she said or did. I remember people telling me at the time that one day they would appreciate everything I did for them. They're in their late 20s now and I'm still waiting. 

I'm still waiting for my bio kids (same age) to do the same. I'm not sure we parents get that satisfaction that often. Just because they haven't said it out loud doesn't mean they don't appreciate you. But I know it would be nice to hear. I hope you get to hear that soon.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I took Kate's "You're just like Dad" comment as being about Kevin and Jack's reluctance to talk about their pain (and a big neon sign saying to the audience, "He's an addict just like Jack was!") I didn't take it to mean that Kate knew that Kevin was a substance abuser.

It's definitely possible that the show will reveal that Kevin had a painkiller addiction as a teenager, and that Kate knew about it. But if that's what the writers are going for, I don't think the writing has been believable at all.

If you know that your beloved twin brother was addicted to opiate painkillers but got clean, and then he tells you he just took some opiate painkillers, but he didn't like the way they made him feel - you don't just say, "Okay, whatevs."

And if he's in a daze during a hugely important moment soon afterward, you don't say, "That's funny, he seemed 'off,'" and then go about your day. Even Kate isn't that bad.

And if Kevin had a painkiller addiction, and Kate knew about it, he'd have no reason to let her that he took some painkillers.

That's true, but my gut as someone who worked in a pharmacy and in many doctor's office's, says they could go there. You don't show the fast addiction as Kevin is with one prescription usually but this is TV and they can make their own reality. They alluded to it in interviews and I saw this the other day:

"This leg injury may not be the only devastating thing that constantly comes up in Kevin's life — fans are guessing that the painkiller addiction we'll probably be seeing going forward was also a major issue in Kevin's life after his first leg injury. It may even explain his initial breakup with Sophie, before he was able to finally kick the habit and win her back. This would also explain why Kate whispers "He's just like you" to Jack's ashes in reference to Kevin, possibly hinting that she knows they both struggled with addiction throughout their lives."

They never really allude to why Kevin divorced and that might be because the why is intertwined with twists later. But like you, I'd be really surprised Sophie didn't see the signs (and she's a nurse) any more than Kate didn't.

Edited November 12, 2017 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think I've seen it touched on yet, but I was struck by how subdued Jack's reaction was to the first judge.  I know the emphasis was on Rebecca going to bat for keeping Randall, in the fierce mama bear mode, but Jack really didn't get very fiery at all.  He is usually more intense than he was in those scenes.  I have to think that was intentional writing and acting. 

[Biggie B]

Here's one thing that I noticed:

We see "old" William being told by his doctor that his cancer is not responding to any treatments, that there's nothing more that can be done, and that he should enjoy the time he has left.

Then William is about to shoot up when Randall appears to him for the first time, and we know where things went from that moment.

Once William stayed to live with Randall, he began undergoing cancer treatment again. Certainly, Randall arranged for all of it, and paid for everything, and clearly, he wanted to save William so that they'd have more years together. But - since William had already been told that there was nothing more that could be done - I do wonder if William even mentioned to his new doctors, "I've already been told that there's nothing left to be done." Or did he hope that they'd come up with something that would work? Or by that point, was he just too worn down to protest or mention anything? It's a moot point now, since William died shortly thereafter, but it's just something that I picked up on. Perhaps he even told Randall that there were no other options, but Randall being Randall might not have believed that. 

When Kevin said to Sophie, "I saw our future life, and it was a NIGHTMARE," we the viewers know that what he meant was, "I saw our future and I was a nightmare." But when Sophie hears, "It was a nightmare," she thought he meant that being with her was the horrible part. Miscommunication is the bedrock of soap operas!! 

At what point did Randall give Deja's mother his number so that she could call collect? Didn't she basically hang up on him and walk out of the booth? As I remember the scene, she said she was going to get Deja back. He said, "You'll have to come through me." She replied, "I've been through worse," hung up the phone and ended their conversation. So when was the collect call arrangement made? I guess off-camera, after that scene? Clearly he had a change of thinking about the situation, but we didn't see that, right? I do hope that ultimately, Deja and her mother are reunited. I don't see Deja being added to the cast as a new, permanent family member, as I'm not sure what the point of that would be. Whatever Randall is going to learn from this experience, he can do so even if Deja ultimately leaves. Then Randall and Beth will be in the clear for a new story line next season.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

Once William stayed to live with Randall, he began undergoing cancer treatment again. Certainly, Randall arranged for all of it, and paid for everything, and clearly, he wanted to save William so that they'd have more years together. But - since William had already been told that there was nothing more that could be done - I do wonder if William even mentioned to his new doctors, "I've already been told that there's nothing left to be done." Or did he hope that they'd come up with something that would work? Or by that point, was he just too worn down to protest or mention anything? It's a moot point now, since William died shortly thereafter, but it's just something that I picked up on. Perhaps he even told Randall that there were no other options, but Randall being Randall might not have believed that. 

Don't we know that William told Randall that the doctor said there was nothing they could do.  Then Randall insisted that they try because, basically, he could get him better doctors? 

[Biggie B]

Just now, Katy M said:

Don't we know that William told Randall that the doctor said there was nothing they could do.  Then Randall insisted that they try because, basically, he could get him better doctors? 

I just don't remember, which is why I noticed it when I watched this episode. But I'm sure you're right.

[CelticBlackCat]

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

I just don't remember, which is why I noticed it when I watched this episode. But I'm sure you're right.

Yes, this is how I remember it.  William told Randall he was terminally ill with cancer.  Randall pretty much said eff that, I'm taking you to see better doctors and I'm paying for it, Dad, don't worry.  William didn't want to at first but Randall insisted.  Randall did everything he could.  It doesn't hurt to get a second opinion anyway; even insurance companies recognize that.

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't think I've seen it touched on yet, but I was struck by how subdued Jack's reaction was to the first judge.  I know the emphasis was on Rebecca going to bat for keeping Randall, in the fierce mama bear mode, but Jack really didn't get very fiery at all.  He is usually more intense than he was in those scenes.  I have to think that was intentional writing and acting. 

My impression of that scene was that Milo played it as Jack remaining calm in a "don't piss him off/fuck this up" kind of mode. Also I find it's often the case with couples, when one is riled up the other automatically goes calm, even if the calm one, were they alone, probably would've been equally riled. And this goes in both directions (ie it alternates who is the "calm" one). So it didn't seem odd to me that he might be remaining calm because she was not.

[BoogieBurns]

6 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Once William stayed to live with Randall, he began undergoing cancer treatment again. Certainly, Randall arranged for all of it, and paid for everything, and clearly, he wanted to save William so that they'd have more years together. But - since William had already been told that there was nothing more that could be done - I do wonder if William even mentioned to his new doctors, "I've already been told that there's nothing left to be done." Or did he hope that they'd come up with something that would work? Or by that point, was he just too worn down to protest or mention anything? It's a moot point now, since William died shortly thereafter, but it's just something that I picked up on. Perhaps he even told Randall that there were no other options, but Randall being Randall might not have believed that. 

Randall said he is going to pay to take William to a specialist and not some public clinic for the diagnosis. He then found a doctor who wanted to try new experimental treatment on him and it may have been the reason he lived several months longer. Randall thought William couldn't afford other options, although even the specialist couldn't keep him alive. William definitely told him there was nothing that could be done. Randall hoped money was going to make a difference.

[Cara]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

They never really allude to why Kevin divorced and that might be because the why is intertwined with twists later. 

I thought they said he cheated on Sophie.