S12.E12: Down to the Wire

[ElenaFR]

7 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

Honestly, I think if Holly and Erika hadn't left the squad, Christina and Keyra would have been cut. 

Christina definitely. Kerya is a fun dancer and when on, she pops. 

[Loves2Dance]

6 minutes ago, ElenaFR said:

Christina definitely. Kerya is a fun dancer and when on, she pops. 

I like Kerya, but I don't think Kelli and Judy do. 

[NMDD43]

11 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

And well I'm sorry but I don't see how Savannah looks like a 'disney princess'. She looks terrible to me and I'm sorry to say that, but I just can't bare to watch her as her teeth are distracting, she just bores me to death when she talks and she isn't doing well in the dances either. What exactly is her appeal? At least Keyra is powerful, Kelsey was beautiful and willing to work hard (and that's what helped her get on the team), Gina is a great dancer so they are apparently overlooking her personality issues... So yeah they aren't being consistent at all.

Can you imagine talking to her up close in person? I feel like all I would do is stare at her enormous teeth 

 

9 hours ago, Random Noise said:

"The Star" is a privilege. Come December they'll post three wise-men around it and the baby Jerry Jones lying in an empty bucket.

??

 

 

7 hours ago, sATL said:

I'm beginning to think the 5 yr tryout makes for good tv - ie "here's this year comeback girl". 

I agree. The past few seasons, it seems that certain girls only made the team for the show, almost like they were casted for it and the producers wanted them on the team while Kelli and Judy so clearly didn't.

Kelsey is one example that comes to mind. Kelli seemed to hate her the year she made it. 

Unless Charlotte is pulling the strings for these girls, I honestly think CMT gets to "pick" one girl every season to make the team. Christina seems to be this year's pick. And maybe Savannah too since, per Kelli, her and Tara are "attached at the hip". Maybe the producers didn't want to break them up?

Or.... Savannah's last name is "Heineken". Maybe she bribes her way onto the team. Free beer for everyone! ? ?

Edited October 20, 2017 by NMDD43

[Teriyaki Terror]

29 minutes ago, NMDD43 said:

Can you imagine talking to her up close in person? I feel like all I would do is stare at her enormous teeth 

 

??

 

 

I agree. The past few seasons, it seems that certain girls only made the team for the show, almost like they were casted for it and the producers wanted them on the team while Kelli and Judy so clearly didn't.

Kelsey is one example that comes to mind. Kelli seemed to hate her the year she made it. 

Unless Charlotte is pulling the strings for these girls, I honestly think CMT gets to "pick" one girl every season to make the team. Christina seems to be this year's pick. And maybe Savannah too since, per Kelli, her and Tara are "attached at the hip". Maybe the producers didn't want to break them up?

Or.... Savannah's last name is "Heineken". Maybe she bribes her way onto the team. Free beer for everyone! ? ?

Remember when Colby was the fan vote...they clearly did not want her in TC but had to be fair while she was there. They also looked for any reason to cut her. I'm wondering why they don't do the fan vote anymore...maybe because of this. Hmmmm

[haphazard]

When was Celinda cut? I don't remember seeing her being cut.

[NMDD43]

7 minutes ago, Teriyaki Terror said:

Remember when Colby was the fan vote...they clearly did not want her in TC but had to be fair while she was there. They also looked for any reason to cut her. I'm wondering why they don't do the fan vote anymore...maybe because of this. Hmmmm

Yes, Colby is another one they did not seem to like at all. Did they do away with the fan vote after Colby won it? I'm sure that's why it's gone; they were being forced to take girls into camp that normally would have never made it in. 

[NMDD43]

19 hours ago, Teresa said:

Oh btw, my DVR guide says that there is a "surprising departure" tonight. Interesting. 

Hmmm. So at one point they were going to show it. I wonder why they changed their mind? Even with all of the Holly and Jenna drama, it would not have made the organization look bad by simply saying "a veteran left (or was released) due to an injury"

 

If Erica asked to not be shown, would CMT even honor that? I'm sure lots of girls would rather not be shown, but it sort of comes with the territory. Erica had no problem being featured on the show for 3 years now. And she has no problem flaunting her DCC pics on social media. Literally, nothing bad would have come from saying she left for an injury; it would not have hurt anyone's image.

 

The fact that they went to great lengths to edit her out is what bothers me the most. I hate that a show that is supposed to be mindless and fun has left me annoyed and confused.

Edited October 20, 2017 by NMDD43

[MrsEVH]

25 minutes ago, NMDD43 said:

Yes, Colby is another one they did not seem to like at all. Did they do away with the fan vote after Colby won it? I'm sure that's why it's gone; they were being forced to take girls into camp that normally would have never made it in. 

Last year (season 11) was the last time they did the fan vote. Jackie won and was eventually cut from TC. IMHO I think they got rid of it because most of the winners did not make the team. Loren was the only one who made it.

[EvergreenLove]

13 hours ago, kathy42977 said:

Which African American  cheerleader is getting favoritism and should be cut?

 Keyra?

Yes.  It's no secret that the girls with unique looks get much more leeway than the others.  We've seen it in past seasons with Courtney Cook, Meagan, Jasmine, Alexandra and Breelan from season 9 (although they did cut Alexandra, she was given A LOT more time to improve than most would get - same with Courtney on season 5).  I see nothing extraordinary about Keyra beyond her fun personality.  She is making mistakes, doesn't have pleasing facials, appears soft - but yet she's still there.  Same with Savannah, but now Savannah has the advantage with Kitty's approval (a la Morgan).

Edited October 20, 2017 by 123DCCWoooo

[dreamcatcher]

7 hours ago, ByTor said:

I didn't see entitlement.  I think she probably meant it as in "I HAVE to because if I don't I'm never trying again."

Did they say on the show Savannah looks like a Disney princess?  Whoever originated it, I'd love to know the thought process behind it; she's a semi-attractive girl with teeth too large for her mouth and long hair, I'm not really sure how she looks princessy.

THANK YOU. I don't understand the 'disney princess' comment in general, what is that supposed to mean? Unless she was being passive aggressive and meant that she looks like a cartoon, what does that even mean?

5 hours ago, sATL said:

was Erica shown last night? the cameras tend to move so fast over the veterans..

I think what we saw was after Erica's departure, that's why Kelli started off practice with that little speech,why Heather was front and center and Kelli said that she had more energy/power/whatever.

[scorpio1031]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but what did Jenna do to her shoulder?  She had kinesiology tape on it.

[DCC.Style.fan]

?This episode was meh. I was disappointed that they are waiting until episode 13 to announce team so for the non spoiled people the football season is almost halfway over and they still don't know who the cheerleaders are yet!

❓Anthony Ramos is not a bad dude but I think he just doesn't fit with this show. They don't care about fashion the same way Hollywood does.  I kinda feel bad for him a little because he is trying to fit there ( So Charlotte, who are you wearing? )  But to me I noticed he seems to realize that he doesn't fit there too. I would have definitely preferred to have Ryan Gossling walk into the locker room.

?I don't know what it is but Keira tugs at my heart strings. I want to be her friend  LOL

?I have to repent for prejudging Kalyssa in the first few episodes.  She has proven to be a kind, hard working, and teachable TCC and I can see now in this is episode how she could have been valedictorian.  And gosh she is so beautiful.

?Again, I am not big on being a critic but I have to say it was such a let down to have the opportunity to have 13 hours of available air time for this season and have the same that we always see stretched out so that we still didn't get to see anything extra like in season 7 when we got to see inside first pregame, first home season opener and the halftime BCA preparation.   It may just be the way I am but I don't like seeing shows filled with fluff like cycling while smiling- that was just weird, and 3 full episodes of girls who are auditioning. The little intros don't bother me. They have always had those even in the later episodes but I want to hear Alexis and for future have little intros to vets we have never learned about. I KNOW the fans would be happy if we got a little clip of Amy L.  or Kayln since they didn't even have one their rookie season.  Just a thought.

I like Christina -  as I am now ducking from objects and lashings of disagreement being hurled my way!?

[tinabee1967]

What was up with Charlotte's makeup? She looked SO washed out. I could not have cared less about the name dropping of her outfit designer. It came across as very uppity. Like, who cares.

I felt really bad for Taryn getting cut. She had way more confidence than Christina. I think Savannah is messing up so much because she can't take the pressure any longer. 

Forget the leg massages....all three of those gals needed a microdermabrasion, especially Kelli. She has that cake face thing going on and it has been a thorn in my backside for weeks!

2 minutes ago, tinabee1967 said:

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by tinabee1967

[Mardo2044]

Who was the blonde vet that was messing up the V clap?  That was so odd, 'cause if vets have it wrong then they were probably showing it to rookies wrong as well.  But, Savannah should have made the correction since her group was not up yet.  I love that we are seeing more of Judy in action with her specific corrections.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Mardo2044
wordiness

[tinabee1967]

7 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

Who was the blonde vet that was messing up the V clap?  That was so odd, because I thought if vets have it wrong then they were probably showing it to rookies wrong as well.  But, Savannah should have made the correction since her group was not up yet.  I love that we are seeing more of Judy in action with her specific corrections.

I think it was Alexandria that was messing up the V clap (lol, sounds like a disease!)

[LynneH]

I liked this episode because it was mostly dancing and actually focused on the girls performing a lot more as opposed to the split seconds we have seen in the first few episodes.  

Although I agree that Taryn is a "blender" dancer, I feel she should not have been cut before Savannah as I think she was better than her and certainly better than Christina.  IF Taryn had a more "unique to DCC" hairstyle she may have stood out a bit more and not have blended so much.  I also feel that K&J didn't really care for her personally and that is why they didn't seem to have any qualms cutting her and did not ask her to audition next year .  

I think K&J really like Christina and that due to the veteran exits they felt they had a reasonable excuse to keep her. 

In regards to Savannah, even though they specifically told her that "package deals" don't get you on the team, I think they made an exception and kept her specifically because of Tara.  

Although I do agree that Keyra makes mistakes, I think her mistakes are not very blatant as others and her bubbly personality shows better (similarly to Kashara) on the field.  Also, I don't mind that she does not have the "DCC look" because to me they should have a diverse looking group aka:  Tall, short, heavier, skinnier, short hair, long hair, all hair colors. They should have people that are the "whole package" so some maybe weaker in looks, or dancing, or media.  But the whole package should at least meet a "minimum standard" in dancing.  Which means you should be able to dance/blend with the rest of the group. 

Side note:  I was very surprised that during the show group performance the camera was often on Jenna.  I mean, I like watching her dance, but I don't think she is THAT much better than anyone else in the group.  Plus, since she was in so much trouble in previous episodes, I thought spotlighting her was counterproductive.

Also during the show group performance I got a kick out of Judy holding herself back when she wanted to scream directions at them.

[Mardo2044]

47 minutes ago, DCCroutineFAN said:

I like Christina -  as I am now ducking from objects and lashings of disagreement being hurled my way!?

I like her too.  I know she isn't the strongest in the room, but I think she knows it and will hopefully grow into the position.  

[WaterSpirit]

I was so excited to yell yes no maybe, I see I am not first to the line.

But DCC Detectives we be! interesting info to capture for sure

[sATL]

50 minutes ago, tinabee1967 said:

Forget the leg massages....all three of those gals needed a microdermabrasion, especially Kelli. She has that cake face thing going on and it has been a thorn in my backside for weeks!

I thought that whole leg massage scene was showing off a new toy being used by 3 people who need it the least. I could see the 4 group leaders using the device.

and how many times does kitty need to look at audition photos to get the TC down to the magic 36?

Edited October 20, 2017 by sATL

[Mardo2044]

10 minutes ago, LynneH said:

In regards to Savannah, even though they specifically told her that "package deals" don't get you on the team, I think they made an exception and kept her specifically because of Tara.  

 

I think it was another convenient excuse to mention, because they like her look and they want to keep her despite performance issues.  In the end, Kelli can keep anyone she wants for whatever reason whether she justifies them or not.  I think there are a lot of girls on the team currently who look similar and blend appearance wise, and so Savannah's red hair and look is appealing to them for this season.  If I were trying out next year I would dye my hair red!

Edited October 20, 2017 by Mardo2044
typo

[WaterSpirit]

I really like Keyra... She has quite grown on me, and seems like she is important to this team not only for her dancing, but her personality. She is well liked, and a true asset for DCC and as a role model, team player.

[RhiRhi]

I know looks are subjective but I think everyone would agree that Tara is ‘attractive’ so I thought that was really odd and mean and I usually agree with Kitty. 

Taryn is really photogenic but not as telegenic if that makes sense.  I thought the same about TCC Erin earlier in the season.  I was really sad Taryn didn’t make the team. 

[Lady GenX]

I created an account just so I could ask...why are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the Hall of Fame sign?!

 

[Mardo2044]

7 minutes ago, RhiRhi said:

I know looks are subjective but I think everyone would agree that Tara is ‘attractive’ so I thought that was really odd and mean and I usually agree with Kitty. 

 

IMO Tara is attractive, very girl next door look.

[Blndee6]

3 minutes ago, Lady GenX said:

I created an account just so I could ask...why are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the Hall of Fame sign?!

 

That’s hilarious; I’m so glad you created an account! ?

12 minutes ago, WaterSpirit said:

I really like Keyra... She has quite grown on me, and seems like she is important to this team not only for her dancing, but her personality. She is well liked, and a true asset for DCC and as a role model, team player.

I agree completely! 

[WaterSpirit]

I very much agree, Tara is very attractive. I do think several girls went down a little bit in looks due to the over processed blonde, without low lights or color that is closer to "natural." 

  I was also sad to see Taryn cut, especially with the little laugh that Kelly did (nervous?) when she said she was one locker away. Taryn called it, they had 37 last year, and have had over or under many years. Why not have an alternate? Keep them practicing, and no shame if they are not out on field every game.

EVERY time we pan to Christina, there are issues, she is not strong and it is clear. Christina blew WAAAYY past the line on the entrance!! I could not believe that would not make Judy or Kelli VERY nervous. It would be so noticeable in a game.

 

I have tried to find any video of Kitty, Kelly or Judy dancing for DCC or other.  I do believe kitty is talented, and I do believe she would not be chosen for DCC as they are now, with how she looked back then. I wonder if she gets that? kitty is a great teacher from what I can see, and what I understand, but needs a decade long overdue hair intervention.

[Lady GenX]

1 minute ago, Blndee6 said:

That’s hilarious; I’m so glad you created an account! ?

Thanks!  I'm a looooooooooooong time lurker.  In fact, when I went to sign up earlier, it told be my email address was already in use!  So I actually HAD created an account, but have zero memory of it.  Sometimes the vodka gets the better of me...

Good thing I have two emails!

[Mardo2044]

1 hour ago, tinabee1967 said:

I think it was Alexandria that was messing up the V clap (lol, sounds like a disease!)

Tells you how much I know, I did not even know we had a veteran named Alexandria.  I only know the TC Alexandria!  I thought it was maybe Heather? but I don't recognize many of the vets.

You are right about the name, does sound like a disease, lol.

2 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but what did Jenna do to her shoulder?  She had kinesiology tape on it.

She injured it trying to knock Kashira off point.  She was tired of being punished.  lol

Edited October 21, 2017 by Mardo2044

[cherryblossom]

17 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

Tells you how much I know, I did not even know we had a veteran named Alexandria.  I only know the rookie Alexandria!  I thought it was maybe Heather? but I don't recognize many of the vets.

You are right about the name, does sound like a disease, lol.

She injured it trying to knock Kashira off point.  She was tired of being punished.  lol

VD is nothing to clap about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scorpio1031]

17 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

Tells you how much I know, I did not even know we had a veteran named Alexandria.  I only know the rookie Alexandria!  I thought it was maybe Heather? but I don't recognize many of the vets.

You are right about the name, does sound like a disease, lol.

She injured it trying to knock Kashira off point.  She was tired of being punished.  lol

I thought it was from "poppin" bottles with Holly, Zeke and Dak:)

[Lady GenX]

Anthony Ramos: "Charlotte, WHO are we WEARING today?  I LOVE this."

Charlotte:  "Do you love it?  Its a (whisper) Lanvin."

Anthony Ramos: "AMAZING."

Judy's expression (with full on side eye): *Oh BARF.*

Edited October 21, 2017 by Lady GenX

[scorpio1031]

1 minute ago, Lady GenX said:

Anthony Ramos: "Charlotte, WHO are we WEARING today?  I LOVE this."

Charlotte:  "Do you love it?  Its a (whisper) Lanvin."

Judy's expression (with full on side eye): *Oh BARF.*

Was her phone a Lanvin as well?  Cause she couldn't stay off the thing during the performance.

[Mardo2044]

21 hours ago, DCCroutineFAN said:

duh!  I just figured out your screen name   "Elle Woods"  ?

Hah.. I thought it was "woods COMA elle".  Thought you were a city girl.  Never got it and that is some funny.

[KatebytheSea]

I think Kelli really likes Keyra. "She's a powerhouse, dynamic" were some of Kelli's comments regarding Keyra.

I think Christina and Savannah might have been the 2 cut ... except Kelli likes Savannah's looks....  So who knows! lol

[Lady GenX]

Just now, scorpio1031 said:

Was her phone a Lanvin as well?  Cause she couldn't stay off the thing during the performance.

She was making notes...

"Note to self - Tell K & J they better keep the f'in Disney Princess.  With Danielle retiring and that other little redhead b*tch quitting, we need a ginger with great hair."

[scorpio1031]

1 minute ago, Lady GenX said:

She was making notes...

"Note to self - Tell K & J they better keep the f'in Disney Princess.  With Danielle retiring and that other little redhead b*tch quitting, we need a ginger with great hair."

Don't forget to throw up after dinner tonight

Banish the people who didn't genuflect when they entered the STAR

Remove two more lockers from the locker room so Kelli can only have 34 girls next year

 

Sorry, I'm sure when I feel better, the snark will end.........HA:)

[Mardo2044]

11 minutes ago, Lady GenX said:

Anthony Ramos: "Charlotte, WHO are we WEARING today?  I LOVE this."

Charlotte:  "Do you love it?  Its a (whisper) Lanvin."

Anthony Ramos: "AMAZING."

Judy's expression (with full on side eye): *Oh BARF.*

They did not even show the outfit, it was filmed from the back when they talked about it.  I don't get it.  But then again, the clothes are so out of my league I don't even know the designer.

[Lady GenX]

Just now, Mardo2044 said:

They did not even show the outfit, it was filmed from the back when they talked about it.  I don't get it.  But then again, the clothes are so out of my league I don't even know the designer.

I don't get it either!  And I AM a fashion fanatic, but why ask about an outfit the camera can't see?!  I'm also calling Charlotte out for saying she's wearing "a Lanvin" instead of just saying "it's Lanvin."  The former implies it's custom or couture, when she clearly just picked it up at SAKS.

I LOVE me some Charlotte, she's almost as easy a target as her father.  :-)

11 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

Don't forget to throw up after dinner tonight

Banish the people who didn't genuflect when they entered the STAR

Remove two more lockers from the locker room so Kelli can only have 34 girls next year

 

Sorry, I'm sure when I feel better, the snark will end.........HA:)

Then I hope you don't ever feel better!  I seem to remember hearing something somewhere..."Spare the snark, spoil the network".  :-)

[laprin]

I think this is another take only 32 girls year.  It would be a much stronger team. 

[Tdoc72]

10 hours ago, healthnut said:

15 judges at finals, they vote yes, no, or maybe for each girl. 

I read that in Kelli's voice, describing her invention of the world's most difficult scoring system. ?

7 hours ago, NMDD43 said:

The fact that they went to great lengths to edit her out is what bothers me the most. I hate that a show that is supposed to be mindless and fun has left me annoyed and confused.

I did LOL about the giant sticker/window cling of her face still being displayed. 

[Ferniesfreckles]

So I'm sort of confused about the timeline.  Did Judy say the performance at The Star was to open training camp?  That's in July, isn't it?

Then HOF game happens sometime in August. Yet they showed the HOF stuff first! 

Eh, after all that's been happening in the league, I can say JJ can go straight to hell. 

[mmm]

6 hours ago, Lady GenX said:

Anthony Ramos: "Charlotte, WHO are we WEARING today?  I LOVE this."

Charlotte:  "Do you love it?  Its a (whisper) Lanvin."

Anthony Ramos: "AMAZING."

Judy's expression (with full on side eye): *Oh BARF.*

She also pronounced it wrong  

[Lady GenX]

9 minutes ago, mmm said:

She also pronounced it wrong  

No, she said it correctly, it's french.  And I'm a fashion nerd.

[EvergreenLove]

7 hours ago, WaterSpirit said:

I really like Keyra... She has quite grown on me, and seems like she is important to this team not only for her dancing, but her personality. She is well liked, and a true asset for DCC and as a role model, team player.

It’s very reminiscent of Jordan Chanley’s likeable personality that made up for her flaws in Season 3.

[Ms. SW]

1 hour ago, Ferniesfreckles said:

So I'm sort of confused about the timeline.  Did Judy say the performance at The Star was to open training camp?  That's in July, isn't it?

Then HOF game happens sometime in August. Yet they showed the HOF stuff first! 

Eh, after all that's been happening in the league, I can say JJ can go straight to hell. 

They start training camp in July in Oxnard CA. Then they finish camp here. So this was to open camp at the Star. So the timeline was right. 

[parrotfeathers]

3 hours ago, Lady GenX said:

No, she said it correctly, it's french.  And I'm a fashion nerd.

I wonder what Kashara's pronunciation would be cause we sure don't say it that way in Mississippi.  Thanks for the grammar lesson!

[ByTor]

11 hours ago, Lady GenX said:

I'm also calling Charlotte out for saying she's wearing "a Lanvin" instead of just saying "it's Lanvin."  The former implies it's custom or couture

I didn't realize using "a" gave any kind of implication, I say it all the time (not about all my Lanvin clothing, mainly because I don't have any LOL) but I'll take your fashion nerd word for it :) :) :)   Note to self: don't say it that way again!

My favorite part was after Keyra's office visit.  After she gave the fake thumbs down & turned it into a thumbs up, Jenna grabbed her into a hug & the way Keyra spun around she looked like she was trying to get away.  If there were a cartoon thought bubble over her head it would be "Ohhhh no you don't, I'm not gonna be next!"

Edited October 21, 2017 by ByTor

[mmm]

7 hours ago, Lady GenX said:

No, she said it correctly, it's french.  And I'm a fashion nerd.

So am I.

Listen her it again she didn't stress the A. Maybe bec of her Texas accent made it sound weird. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 10/20/2017 at 3:06 AM, Random Noise said:

If Kelli and Judy went into auditions with the current DCC standards, would they make the squad?

If you mean 2017 Kelli and Judy, then obviously no. I mean, seriously, try to imagine either of doing one of the DCC booty shaking dances. But would 1984 Kelli and Judy be able to make the 2017 team? Still questionable, partly because the dance style the team had back then was very different. They also didn't have such high standards about the kickline back then. This is from the second DCC movie in 1980 (which is when Judy joined the squad) and not only are the kicks low but they're not very synchronized and you can see a lot of bad technique (hunched over, bent knees, etc).

This is from their appearance on The Love Boat in 1979 so it's before Kelli and Judy's time on the team, but you can see that the style is very different and the choreography didn't require as much technique:

This is from 1989 (right after Kelli left), but I had to include this video (1) for the unitards and (2) I'm pretty sure that's Judy at the very beginning! There are a bunch of different show group snippets too!

 

19 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

Honestly, I think if Holly and Erika hadn't left the squad, Christina and Keyra would have been cut. 

Christina definitely would have been cut. I'm not sure about Keyra because Kelli really loves her.

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If you mean 2017 Kelli and Judy, then obviously no. I mean, seriously, try to imagine either of doing one of the DCC booty shaking dances. But would 1984 Kelli and Judy be able to make the 2017 team?

I thought the question meant DCC Judy & Kelli, not present day Judy & Kelli.   I do agree with you about how different the style was then (how can I not LOL), and because of that my opinion on the original question is that it's an apples & oranges comparison.  The kind of dance they did then was the kind of dance that was taught to them; that's what they adapted to & what they did well.  If they were doing Love Boat style routines & suddenly were told to do Thunderstruck, that would be difficult since it would be something they never saw before.  My opinion is that they are talented enough & they would have learned, but who knows just how good they'd be at it?  They weren't trained to do the kind of moves that are done today, so if their audition back then was like it is now, I imagine none of the DCCs then would have made it.

Edited October 21, 2017 by ByTor