S03.E03: Zari

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When Sara receives a distress call from their “befriended” agent at the Time Bureau, she learns that they have been tasked with going to the future to capture a rogue time traveler.

 

[scarynikki12]

Mick is the gift that keeps on giving. His nonchalance as Sara flew over the bar was hilarious. 

The foursome of Sara, Jax, Mick, and Ray was great. Then they subbed in Nate for Jax, which sucked, but then brought back Jax and it went back to awesome. Ray’s eyepatch was too much without being Too Much. 

Stoned Nate was mildly amusing but it felt like the Too Much that Ray’s eyepatch avoided. 

Jax and Stein are the only ones on the team who are actually metas right? Sara, Ray, and Mick are Muggles, Amaya and Zari get their powers from magic, and Nate is Steel thanks to science. I’m guessing FutureArgus expanded the definition of Metahuman. 

Mick’s got a new crush! He loves unattainable women. 

Jax and Sara have such a great friendship. I wish we had more each episode. 

It’s only one episode but I’m loving Zari. 

OF COURSE kid Ray saw something creepy in a sewer and wanted to shake its hand. 

[Sakura12]

This episode was much better than the previous 2. Except Nate is still screwing up, is that going to be his new role?

I like Zari, that’s how you introduce a character. She’s smart and capable and doesn’t think she needs the Legends but she’s not an ass about it like the Time Bureau. And she’s an Airbender.

Amaya and Zari are connected through their totems interesting. They are also exactly a century apart from each other which is also interesting.

Sara adding another bar fight through history to her resume. I understand her losing to a meta with water powers, still don’t get her in a tie with Ava. I did love that she played chicken with the time ships. Sara doesn’t fear death, she already died twice.

 Also getting played by the person they are trying to help, that is the kind of screw ups the Legends do. They don’t open dangerous animals cages for no reason or out themselves because they are drunk.

[johntfs]

I wouldn't have called Gary someone at the TB they "befriended" but whatever.  I feel like the show is back and really living up to "we screw things up for the better."  I liked Zari a lot and I liked that she was Muslim without being MUSLIM!!!!  Basically that her religion is one part of who she is, just like it is with most people.  Yes, Nick messed up, but he messed up for the better, actually helping Amaya with her totem situation despite believing she'd leave if she solved it.  And he didn't get high to get high, he tested a potentially dangerous compound on himself before taking it to someone he cared about, which is cool.  I liked Mick showing brains and contributing his dubious talents to the mission.  I also liked him admiring Zari.  Jax letting the meta-human "criminals" out because it was decent is another callback to the Legends being Legends.  Sara playing Time ship chicken and winning will never not be awesome.

Edited October 25, 2017 by johntfs

[Primal Slayer]

It was a MAJOR step up from last weeks. These are the kind of episodes that I enjoy from Legends.T

Nate is annoying as hell and it is sad that Amaya has to be tied to him. I am interested in seeing her connection with Zari, paired with one of the big bads being her granddaughter, this should be a big season for her. I do wish we had gotten a better reaction from whatshername when she first sees her grandmother.

I like Zari but the whole "have to tap my Totem" is kind of annoying, don't know why they have to do that.

The Legends want to save time but they just do whatever they want throughout time that it does get annoying. 

[Proteus]

I loved Zari. I hope she's partnered with Mick more.

I'm all on board the Sara/Ava ship so I liked their showdown.

I still don't care about Nate.

Im interested in how Zari & Amaya are connected.

Kuassa made a good villain this episode.

The set up for next weeks episode was intriguing.

Itll be interesting if Zari ever meets Lyla in present day.

[Sakura12]

I don't think the Legends want to save time as much as they want to help people in trouble. The people saving time don't care what happens to anyone else. I'm here to watch heroes do their thing not watch a bunch of uncaring people save history. That's boring. That's why I will always side with the Legends. 

[Lantern7]

Another member for the team, and Zari fits like a glove. She's got issues, a rebellious side, and now she has powers. I'm thinking that if you go far into the future, the Statue of Liberty would be replaced with a statue of Sara. "Bring me your misfits, your nerds, your career criminals, your second-stringers yearning to thrive and mess up time to an absurd degree." Yes, I know Mick's more "Legend," but he has a statue.

Nate saw Ray's eyepatch and beard, and raised him a drug trip. I mean, he was trying to help Amaya (albeit through cheating), but he's such a goober. I'm good with it, probably because I'm at least 40 percent goob myself. Oh, and Gary doesn't count, because he's not a Legend. He does deserve more smacks to the head than Ray and Nate combined.

Mick is awesome especially lying on the floor. They didn't have to bring in another Prison Break reference, but that's only the second one in two seasons, right? Within reasonable limits.

16 minutes ago, johntfs said:

 I liked Zari a lot and I liked that she was Muslim without being MUSLIM!!!!

See: "Baz, Simon." To DC's credit, he has worked out well on Green Lanterns. He just wasn't an immediate home run like Kamala Khan in Ms. Marvel.

[Sakura12]

5 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Another member for the team, and Zari fits like a glove. She's got issues, a rebellious side, and now she has powers. I'm thinking that if you go far into the future, the Statue of Liberty would be replaced with a statue of Sara. "Bring me your misfits, your nerds, your career criminals, your second-stringers yearning to thrive and mess up time to an absurd degree." Yes, I know Mick's more "Legend," but he has a statue.

I would love it if the team aren't known to anyone in their lifetime or even the next but far into the future they do have statues and are known as Legends. 

They have saved the world from an immortal demi god and the entire universe from a legion of villains. None of those things were caused by them. They weren't responsible for making those people evil.

[HunterHunted]

17 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I like Zari, that’s how you introduce a character. She’s smart and capable and doesn’t think she needs the Legends but she’s not an ass about it like the Time Bureau. And she’s an Airbender.

Amaya and Zari are connected through their totems interesting. They are also exactly a century apart from each other which is also interesting.

Zari's powers are a little weird because these aren't Isis' traditional powers, but it seems as if the show has made Zari's totem the Anansi air totem. I did like Zari's introduction. They've given her depth without it being an hammer to the head.

I'm glad that they are finally cluing Amaya in on Kuasa. This is more mythology than Vixen has in the comics.

I said last week that I love when the show remembers that Mick is their scumbag anthropologist. Of course he'd know which bar to go to. That disguise was very Ray. I didn't mind high Nate either.

I thought the Prison Break reference was waaaaaaaay better than the Titanic one last week.

[tennisgurl]

7 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

would love it if the team aren't known to anyone in their lifetime or even the next but far into the future they do have statues and are known as Legends. 

I think it would be awesome if we meet a time traveler from even further in the future than where Rip knew Vandall Savage, and we find out that the Legends really DID become these amazing legendary figures who are considered these brilliant ultra bad asses who were paragons of integrity who saved the universe. Then he sees that the gang are a bunch weidoes and former bad guys who are the resident screw ups of the time travel world, and he is at first disappointed, but then sees them in action and is even more impressed that they could do such amazing things despite all their issues and personal problems, and that they really do care about people and deserve to be Legends. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by tennisgurl

[statsgirl]

Tala Ashe is a seems like a good actress, better than the usual CW level.  I think I'm going to enjoy Zari.

This is the most I've ever like Nate.  Keep him stoned rather than a Gary Stu.  I'm glad Amaya is linked to Zari rather than to Nate because that was getting boring.

I know Dominic Purcell is best known for Prison Break but I think this is his best role.  His deadpan makes the character.  "Prison Break ... I'm in,"

54 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I liked Zari a lot and I liked that she was Muslim without being MUSLIM!!!!

This.  It's got a subtlety I don't associate with the Arrowverse shows.

I like the Sara/Ava frenemy relationship. And Gary was good comic relief.

[KirkB]

Two goofy episodes in a row. It seemed somewhat out of place on Flash but the Legends make it work.

I'm still sad we lost Snart but I am so glad Mick is still around. Purcell is obviously enjoying himself and I find that fun. BTW, can one of you guys who are better at this than me capture and post a GIF of Mick's laying down on the bridge? For some reason that really cracked me up.

Zari is interesting. I like having another woman on the Waverider but I'm not sure why two of them need to have magic necklaces.

I get that Arthur Darvill probably wasn't available, but the next time they see him the Legends might want to ask Rip good his Time Bureau is if a) a powerful villain can travel through time and kill people and the only person they send to investigate is Gary and b) Gary send out an emergency call and it takes that long for time travelers to respond. Still, I did like how Ava blinked. Not just because she was worried for her ship but because she must have genuinely believed Sara was actually crazy enough to do it.

Edited October 25, 2017 by KirkB

[thuganomics85]

Poor Mick!  He had to wait so long to finally burn someone.  That ain't healthy for him!  I loved his nonchalant response to Sara getting thrown over the bar.  But I also like how earlier in the episode, he did follow Sara's lead and surrendered.  In his own bizarre way, he truly does respect her as a leader, which is something I never would have predicted when the show first started (or when he first appeared on The Flash.)

So, we get a new Legend in the form of Zari.  She seems pretty cool, although I'll ignore the "hacktivist label that the commercials were using, because I always found that kind of silly.  But I like that she is Muslim but they aren't smacking us on the head with it (man, I can't believe we're at the place where some of the other DC CW shows could learn subtlety from this show of all things), and I'm curious about her connection with Amaya.  Also curious to see how she interacts with the other characters.  I can easily see her and Mick bonding due to their criminal pasts (for Mick, it was actually nice of him when he said he wasn't a superhero either so she would be more willing to come aboard.)  The actress did a pretty good job.

The Water Assassin beating Sara was the obvious "You can tell she's truly a real threat!" moment, but it works.  I do hope their next battle ends differently!

I love you, Ray, but even you aren't daft enough to not know that the eyepatch and goatee look was dumb.

Stoned Nate is apparently best Nate.

Martin staying behind to run tests on Amaya smacked a bit of "Victor Garber needed a lighter schedule for this episode" thing.

Despite the fact that both Sara and Sharpe fully tried to kill each other tonight, why will I not be surprised if they still hook up?

Well, as long as that isn't Pennywise in the sewers, I'm sure everything will work out with Little Ray next week!

[UNOSEZ]

Good epi.. Zari was cool.. Not sure about  this Muslim meter that a few posters are ecstatic abt her not going over but w/e... Excited that Amaya will have a big role to play this season with her mentorship of zari and having to take on her grandkid... Someone upstream mentioned it but I also adore the relationship of Jax and Sara she's like his cool older sister that he wants to emulate I hope they continue it partly because with Wally getting benched on the flash  and Curtis just being unbearable like 80 pct of the time ain't too many younger blk dudes in the arrowverse to watch out for. 

[ybrik]

Yes this episode definitely fit more into the Legends' 'we screw up things for the better' mantra. 

Of course, Ray and Jax are the ones who saw what was happening to the prisoners by Argus and allowed them to get free. Those two along with Amaya seem to always be the 'good angels' for Sara and the other Legends. 

Can definitely see Zari fitting in well with the team. 

Like that Rory said he would be the one that kills Ray and Ray responding thanks. Have missed them in scenes together interacting as it seems that Ray and Nate interact together more and more.

How did the writers not make an obvious Star Wars reference when Sara turned the ship around and had the shields power diverted to the front? I mean Sara is practically Han Solo and Stein is the ships personal CP3O. 

While Gary has been entertaining, the show does need to watch how much more they use him. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I should have enjoyed 'high Nate' and what led him to that state, but it only amplified all his worst qualities, IMO.  He made Amaya's problem about himself, as well, by ingesting the root 'for testing'.  This is my biggest problem with the Nate Heywood character:  He's selfish.  He thinks most things are about him, and when they're not, he goes out of his way to involve himself or whines & pouts about it.  Then they go and have Amaya be an enabler by affectionately smiling at his self-serving actions.  Point driven home when he thinks Amaya means him when she says she found a reason to stay, and then his hung-dog look when she goes off to try & keep Zari aboard.   I endure Nate only because he's part and parcel with the show, but I can't help but truly think (in this case, for the show's sake) that 'addition by subtraction' would work well here.  His historian background and friendship with Ray are Nate's only redeeming qualities, in my eyes.

Zari seems to be a potentially good addition to the team.  Wonder what else she can do with her totem.

They are really setting Sara & Ava up for some fantastic hate sex at some point in the temporal-zone-linear future.  Timeship Chicken.  Wonder how Gideon felt being used in that game.

Pirate really isn't your look, Ray.  And calling it now, the 'eyes' and growling that kid!Ray meets in the drainage pipe in '88 is a totem user.  Glowing eyes is what Amaya does when she uses hers.

Mick being Mick.  "I wanted to shoot somebody!"

Jax seems to fill the 'moral code' roster spot - usually - which he does well.

Professor was sidelined a bit, but not a huge surprise, considering......... *spoiler*

Edited October 25, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[TDT]

Isnt Zari supposed to be the new incarnation of Isis(name which they obviously can't use)..? Loved that show BTW

with Victor Garber soon to depart i wonder if Jax will be relegated to using guns..if so Mick better have a spare one he can loan him

Unless they bring in someone new who can merge w/ him(maybe they can make Gideon an avatar and Stein can pass his ability to her)

[johntfs]

On 10/24/2017 at 11:06 PM, UNOSEZ said:

Not sure about  this Muslim meter that a few posters are ecstatic abt her not going over but w/e

It's not about a meter so much as the tendency that pop culture has when introducing a "minority" character, especially for the first time, to make the thing making them the minority be the main/only defining thing about them.  Like, Wally West is an African-American Black person who is Black.  Zari is an Islam following Muslim who is Muslim.  It's the idea that even though it is a bit of a barrier-breaking moment for those of us in modern 21st century America (first Muslim superhero on American network TV), Zari's religion isn't the be-all and end-all to her, that she's a fully realized character whose faith happens to be one aspect of her as a person.

Edited October 29, 2017 by johntfs

[Featherhat]

Finally a good episode this season. I really liked Zari and I think she'll fit in well with the team. I enjoyed her bonding with Mick and Amaya and it will be interesting to see women from 100 years apart interact. I loved that Amaya's reason for staying was Zari and her totem and not Nate, and Nate's face when she said it. I didn't massively mind Nate this episode, his acting stoned was better than acting like a giant goober fro no reason.  I think he genuinely wants to help Amaya but how he got there was eyeroll worthy. I liked Amaya's comment to Sara about finally understand what "mansplaining" was, heh. 

Sara didn't have a huge amount to do but I enjoyed the timeship chicken and that it was Ava who blinked. Obviously. Not sold on Ava but she was better than before. I still can't stand the TB and their distain for the Legends when they can't get there in time to sort things out themselves, when they have a TIMESHIP as well. Gary the Goober is ok but I hope they use him sparingly. 

I enjoyed Kuasa's introduction and that they didn't draw the reveal that she's Amaya's granddaughter out. 

[BkWurm1]

I really enjoyed that episode.  Favorite of the year easily.  I agree that high Nate is the best Nate.  Also that fact that Ray didn't get stuck with him so we got so much fun Ray stuff.  Ray is so much more fun away from Nate so sorry Amaya, I was happy you were stuck with Nate tonight but sending him off on his trip got him out of everyone's way while still being there.  

I liked Zari right away, more so that even Amaya and I thought I warmed up to her right away.  I like how they are using Amaya's Granddaughter as a nemesis.  SHe's also an interesting contrast to the modern day Vixen that Amaya gave up Nate for.  

I liked Gary and his weasely ways in this episode, but hopefully they don't overuse him in the future. Same with Ava.  Her showing up and trying to shut them down is already annoying.  Of course, it's supposed to be that way so right now it's all good but I don't want to move to outright dislike if they are really planning on making her a love interest for Sara.  Right now I'm rooting against it.  Sara can do better.  

Loved the game of chicken.  There was never any doubt who would win but it was still awesome.  

So Mick calls Ray "Haircut" and Nate "The pretty", lol.  

Next week looks great too.  I loved the Goonies and loved Stranger Things and the clear homage already has me ready to love it.  Plus cute little Ray.  It has sure-fire fun written all over it.  

[dippydee]

Can Nate be high and left on the ship every episode? High Nate was actually pretty funny and it kept him away from screwing up the action. Definite win all round.

Loved Sara playing chicken with her obvious future hookup Agent Grumpycakes. Also loved Gideon becoming snarky I can only assume it’s the Legends influence taking over her original Time Master programming. 

Zari seems like a great addition and not just because she’s helping balance that male/female ratio a little more. She’s made a great first impression and she definitely seems to have the Legend mentality down.

My favourite episode of the season so far.

[benteen]

I admit, I thought this was a weak episode and wasn't impressed with the Zari character.  Nothing about her appearance wanted me to see her return next week.  Don't get me wrong, I do think she has potential but this was not a strong debut for her in a weak episode. 

I liked Nate last year but he's been completely annoying and stupid this season.  Great observation that he made Amaya's problems all about him.

I liked the stuff with the team vs the Time Bureau (getting tired of them being called screw-ups when they've accomplished) but I'm disappointed that I've been disappointed with the last two episodes and I hope that's not a pattern going forward.  I'm looking forward to next week's episode as I liked the whole "ET" with Ray thing at the end.

Edited October 25, 2017 by benteen

[Primal Slayer]

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't think the Legends want to save time as much as they want to help people in trouble. The people saving time don't care what happens to anyone else. I'm here to watch heroes do their thing not watch a bunch of uncaring people save history. That's boring. That's why I will always side with the Legends. 

Saving people is fine but sometimes they just do anything they want and it should result in consequences since if you make to many changes, it could put more people in danger but that aspect is only explored if it's someone they need to explain why they can't be saved for some lame reason.

[UNOSEZ]

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

It's not about a meter so much as the tendency that pop culture has when introducing a "minority" character, especially for the first time to make the thing making them the minority be the main/only defining thing about them.  Like, Wally West is an African-American Black person who is Black.  Zari is an Islam following Muslim who is Muslim.  It's the idea that even though it is a bit of a barrier-breaking moment for those of us in modern 21st century America (first Muslim superhero on American network TV), Zari's religion isn't the be-all and end-all to her, that she's a fully realized character whose faith happens to be one aspect of her as a person.

I get the sentiment... But then I guess I have to ask what is the limit?.. Zari is gonna be a middle eastern woman who practices Islam that's 3 big parts of her identity so when she eventually runs into some situation when it will come up I'm sure I'll be reading the "no agenda" and "keep political stuff out" etc.. Etc.. I'm just trying to understand when does having scenes about what is central to a character become too much... In the four years of the flash.. Has Iris ever mentioned being black woman and the myriad of things that come with that and if she did have an episode where issues dealing with being iris west.. Would we see the same complaints.. Because I do.. Everytime minorities start to speak abt being minorities there's some kind of pushback especially it seems in Sci-Fi.. At least in my opinion 

[Sakura12]

Can we blame Barry for meta's being outlawed in 2042 since Team Flash just created 12 more. Besides Firestorm, none of the Legends are metas. 

I don't really know how much Nate helping Amaya was for him more than her. When she said had a reason to stay on the ship now, he looked like he expected a reward for helping her and was upset when she said it was Zari. Amaya has a bigger purpose and destiny than just you Nate. Maybe start focusing on being the hero you claim to be and let Amaya do the same. I did like that Nate called Sara a cobra when she almost killed him for touching her arm. 

I think Zari will be a good addition to the team. She knows how to get out of situations which is what the Legends need a lot of. I hope we can see her and Mick bonding since she's basically the new Mick, the one that needs to learn to be a team player. I love how sassy Gideon is getting, probably from being around the Legends. I do like the theory that Gideon starts to take on the personality of the Captain of the ship. In the first season she was more uptight and proper like Rip. Now she's sassy and fun and like Sara. 

Ava now knows that you can't scare someone with death when she's already died twice. And you don't get in Sara's way when she wants to save someone. Then she pulled the fake surrender twice and everyone believed her and they say Sara's not a good liar. I hope Sara gets some acknowledgement about being the leader of her team in the crossover. I know Barry and Oliver always get to be the leads because they were around first even though Sara's team respects and supports her more than either of their teams do. Mick Rory calls her boss and listens to her even when he doesn't agree, that's a major accomplishment that should be recognized by team Flash. 

[kismet]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Can we blame Barry for meta's being outlawed in 2042 since Team Flash just created 12 more. Besides Firestorm, none of the Legends are metas.

When they were "arrested" didn't the drone identify Ray & Nate as metas in violation of the code?? Not sure if they are technically metas per comic standards. But both of their powers change their physical being, so for me that would make them metas.

[Sakura12]

They also identified Mick and Sara has metas and they are not. Ray uses a suit, Amaya and Zari use magical totems. With those they are human. 

Are they using the term meta for powers?  

[kismet]

I really loved this episode!! I thought it was a strong one. It had good character development, introduction and showed the team's chemistry. Glad to see LoT back on the right track!

Sara - was the MVP of the episode. She used her brain & her skills to achieve the Legends' missions

Jax - Usually I don't find him a critical member of the team, but I like him being the moral code. I also think they need to put him more in the field

Nate - Sorry, he was just his average idiot self. I don't think he was that convincing as "stoned". I do think his drive to help Amaya, seemed selfish because of how he went about it. I also think he showed really poor timing to help her. While his teammates are on a mission, he decides to take a hallucinogenic? Just dumb! Wish he could find a reason to leave the show.

Stein - Underutilized, but I get it in light of what is to come for him. But I do really love that he was trying to help Amaya with what he knows best. I do think a lot of mysticism can be explained by science. Heck even using roots to make a drug to bring them on a vision quest is technically medicine and medicine is science. Honestly, I would have preferred they had Stein come up with that as opposed to Nate. But they needed Nate to be the hero, even though it didn't really translate that way.

Rory - Just Amazing as usual!! Keep it up DP on delivering a wonderful character week after week!! Also loved how he plays of of every character.

Ray - He is so adorkable these days. That disguise was so silly, but Ray sold it as genuine. Enjoy that next week will be about him.

Zari - Fabulous introduction! I understand who she is and what she is about. I think it was a strong and successful way to bring her own. She has a Legend's brashness & heart. I think she will blend nicely on the team.

Zuasa - Does LoT have a good original villain for once? I think they do! I like her sneaking around. Loved her action scenes. And loved the dropping of the genetic connection. I just hope the LoT writers do not let us down and fall into some stupid we can't kill one another type because family that crippled Arrow & Flash. Although I do wonder if they set-up for Amaya's departure at the end of the season because of her connection to Zuasa.

Gideon - For only being present by voice acting, the actor knocks it out every week!! I just love how her personality comes out. She's so spunky and great!

Gary - I love him, I have no worry about how show will use him. He is nice comic relief! I like him more than I like Nate

Ava - Meh, nothing worthwhile to complain or rave about.

[tennisgurl]

13 hours ago, statsgirl said:

This.  It's got a subtlety I don't associate with the Arrowverse shows.

Totally! If this was Supergirl, we would get a 10 minute lecture about what it means to be a Muslim women that has literally nothing to do with the plot.

Really liked this episode, definitely a step up from last week. This is more of the screw ups the team has often been associated with, not just being stupid. 

High Nate was pretty awesome. I especially loved when he almost touched Sara's face, and Jax had to pull him away. I even liked Amaya and Nate alright this week, he didn't seem like as much of a needy asshole. 

I like Zari, she seems interesting, and I think she will fit in with the Legends crew really well. She also dislikes authority, and has a selfish side, but has a good heart and a strong sense of justice. I am looking forward to seeing her get mixed in with the team. Although, it might get awkward if she runs into Lyla in any future cross over, considering Lyla is the 2017 head of ARGUS. What happened Lyla? Going from sketchy black sites to full on police states is a pretty big jump. 

Also enjoyed Ray and Jax letting the imprisoned meta humans out, thats why I like the Legends crew. Even if they dont think things through in regards to time travel, they mean well and try to help people whenever they can even if its a pain to deal with. 

Next week looks like fun! We get a Ray centric episode (yea!) and the Stranger Things/IT/LoT cross over that we all wanted! Also, we got some nice Mick and Ray interaction this week! "Nobody gets to kill Haircut except for me!" "Aww thanks Mick" "No Problems." Really, its not surprising to me that little Ray sees a creepy glowing thing in a sewer and tries to make friends with it. Its basically how his friendship with Mick began, right? :)

[Delphi]

Gideon has so much sass.   Love it.   

I enjoyed high Nate.  

I'm not as fond of Zari as the rest of you,  but I think I might warm up to her. 

[kismet]

High Nate was basically just Nate, that's why I didn't think he was that different. It wasn't exaggerated enough. On any other character hallucinogens would have made them different - but most would have been smart enough to avoid doing it during a mission. On Nate, is just your typical Tuesday.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Are they using the term meta for powers?  

Maybe in the future, they just put anyone with powers, or super tech or magic, or have been in the superhero game, into the "meta" category as an excuse to lock them up? Technically, Jax and Stein are the only "traditional" meta humans, but you could easily fit Nate in there, even if his powers have a different source, or even Amaya with her magic powers. Plus Sara is kind of a zombie and Ray frequently changes his body shape and density, but I guess an evil Meta Human hunter would count them. 

Or, maybe they all become meta humans in the future? We are having a whole thing in The Flash right now where Barry accidentally created a bunch of new meta humans, maybe something like that happened and the Legends got caught in the blast? This is supposed to be the future. 

[Sakura12]

Except for talking nonsense, high Nate was regular Nate to me as well. They've pretty much shown in these 3 episodes that he can't be counted on when he's needed (unless it's Amaya). It actually started during the ep where he slept with Amaya. When Mick is more reliable than Nate, that is saying something. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Sakura12

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Another thing that highlights Nate's great[/sarcasm] character traits, is that nobody (ie, Sara) felt the need to take him aside and tell him he knew better than to do something that effectively sidelined him - and Amaya - because he wanted to prove his worth and dedication to her, no matter everything else.  They just accepted its who he is and moved on.

And of course the writers 'saved his bacon' by turning his foolish idea into a positive by immediately utilizing the understanding of Amaya's vision quest in her effectively using the totem's powers when helping on the final part of the mission.

Edited October 25, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

They also identified Mick and Sara has metas and they are not. Ray uses a suit, Amaya and Zari use magical totems. With those they are human. 

Are they using the term meta for powers?  

Maybe just being time travelers puts them in the powers category.  

3 hours ago, kismet said:

High Nate was basically just Nate, that's why I didn't think he was that different. It wasn't exaggerated enough. On any other character hallucinogens would have made them different - but most would have been smart enough to avoid doing it during a mission. On Nate, is just your typical Tuesday.

 

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Except for talking nonsense, high Nate was regular Nate to me as well. They've pretty much shown in these 3 episodes that he can't be counted on when he's needed (unless it's Amaya). It actually started during the ep where he slept with Amaya. When Mick is more reliable than Nate, that is saying something. 

I'm no Nate fan and yeah, he is frequently annoying and distracted but by making him high, his behavior stopped annoying me for the rest of the episode and I could laugh at him because the show wasn't trying to sell High Nate the same way it pushes regular annoying Nate.  It wants us to like and admire regular annoying Nate while it just wanted us to laugh at and mock High Nate.  So that worked for me.  If they left him changed into a dude that kept seeing things and got lost in his imagination, I'm sure I'd enjoy him more as a character.  I hate him more when he's mansplaining to the rest of the crew than when he's tripping. 

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I get the sentiment... But then I guess I have to ask what is the limit?.. Zari is gonna be a middle eastern woman who practices Islam that's 3 big parts of her identity so when she eventually runs into some situation when it will come up I'm sure I'll be reading the "no agenda" and "keep political stuff out" etc.. Etc.. I'm just trying to understand when does having scenes about what is central to a character become too much... In the four years of the flash.. Has Iris ever mentioned being black woman and the myriad of things that come with that and if she did have an episode where issues dealing with being iris west.. Would we see the same complaints.. Because I do.. Everytime minorities start to speak abt being minorities there's some kind of pushback especially it seems in Sci-Fi.. At least in my opinion 

It's not like there's a hard/fast numerical scale (although this is the internet, it's possible that somewhere there is a hard/fast numerical scale of "Muslimness" or whatever).  It's more like the one judge said about porn, "I can't specifically define it, but I know it when I see it."  Yes, being a woman of Middle-Eastern descent who practices Islam is three big parts of her identity, but those aren't the only parts.  She's also brave, clever, cunning, independent and quick-thinking and stubborn.  Plus, she's good with computers and has a clear disrespect for authority, especially authority she feels is unjust.  She still grieves for her brother and wants to live up to his example but doesn't embrace the "superhero" mentality.  My basic point was that I liked the fact that Zari is a rounded character with many aspects and some flaws.  It's not as bad now, but I remember a lot of shows that would bring in a character who was Black or Gay or Female, tell a couple of stories about how the non-minority characters rallied around the minority person to protect him from the bigots, feel good about that and then the minority person would vanish like morning dew.  You know, stories that let a network/show pat itself on the back and say "Hey, check it out, we just put a Black/Gay/Muslim person on the TV.  Are we totes progressive or what?"

[Argenta]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Zari. I'm afraid I found both the character and the actress dull and unconvincing. I hope she improves! 

[Lugal]

This was a good episode, although it was the third one in a row where Nate fucked things up, but I am glad he was a little more sidelined this time, and I will admit, I laughed he cranked the engines just for Gideon to tell him that they are still idling.  Although if he's going to test a psychoactive compound, he should probably wait more than an hour before pronouncing it OK.

I loved how Dominic Purcell did the prison break line, like he had to consider it first, and the way Brandon Routh sold Ray's eyepatch and goatee disguise, it worked because I can see Ray thinking that's a good disguise.  They got to shine a little more this week with Nate relegated more to the sidelines.

I think Zari will be a good addition to the team.  I like that she wasn't really impressed with the Legends until she found out they were time travelers (That's one's on you, Gary).  I look forward to seeing her and Rory bond, the two anti-authoritarians in the crew.

20 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Not sure about  this Muslim meter that a few posters are ecstatic abt her not going over but w/e

Other than one mention of her being Muslim and that she committed a few "Religious Crimes" she seems about the same level as Sarah Hamoudi from Little Mosque on the Prairie.

There seems to be an interesting dynamic between the crew, how Rory and Jax both seem to be becoming Sara's de facto second in command, which is really cool.

[Cthulhudrew]

I am not impressed by the Time Bureau, and don't see what they bring to the show other than being mild placeholders for the season's real Big Bad.

[MarkHB]

I appreciated that Zari's totem looked like the original Saturday morning Isis totem; the version on the crossover comic-book cover was missing the little hooks on top, so I was worried they'd screw it up.  Instead they gave it an HD-friendly level of detail.  And I'm interested in seeing if Zari's Muslim-ness will be a source of... anything on the show, or if it will be just a case where she occasionally says, "I'm Muslim."

Nice to see that Ray comes from Ivy Town, his traditional base of operations in the comics.

[immortalfrieza]

23 hours ago, ybrik said:

While Gary has been entertaining, the show does need to watch how much more they use him. 

The problem with Gary is he seems to exist solely to have a member of the Time Bureau who is utterly incompetent just to make the idea that they aren't completely right about the Legends have weight. So far we are 3 episodes in and I wouldn't be surprised if the Legends created 200 anachronisms for every 1 that they've actually fixed considering how much they screw up trying to do it. At least the alterations made to history this time were 100% deliberate (yes, release a bunch of people with superpowers when we don't even know if some or even the vast majority of them are psychotic nut jobs that actually deserve what's happening to them, no way that's going to backfire.) We need at least 1 episode this season that has the Legends succeed at stopping an anachronism without any issues, even if all it is is just the crew coming back on the ship talking about their latest adventure they had just before the start of the episode. If they want us to root for the Legends and dismiss the Time Bureau as a bunch of dicks how about not making the Time Bureau not completely and obviously right about the Legends and actually have history end up better because they where there?

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Totally! If this was Supergirl, we would get a 10 minute lecture about what it means to be a Muslim women that has literally nothing to do with the plot.

So instead we get something a hundred times worse, we get a character that just goes "Oh BTW I'm Muslim" in passing without any actual effect on the character or their behavior, which makes the whole fact that they are Muslim completely pointless and thus shouldn't even have mentioned until and if it ever became relevant to anything. Otherwise it's simply a detail the writers added so they could check off another box from their political correctness checklist rather than something that actually enriches the character.

That aside, I like Zari as a character, but my first thought was simply "Oh great, ANOTHER superpowered character they're going to have to come up with stupid reasons to sideline and refuse to use their powers so they can't solve the plot in 5 minutes and avoid spending money on the effects." Jax and Stein should have gone Firestorm the minute they heard about the water assassin and kicked her butt, but of course that would be too simple and obvious. Zari is badass though and I hope they actually have her use her powers more than a 2 or 3 times while she's on the team.

I'm not in the least surprised that Metahumans are illegal by 2042, considering that the number of Metas that aren't power hungry and psychotic in the Arrowverse could be counted on one hand and still have fingers left over.

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I get the sentiment... But then I guess I have to ask what is the limit?.. Zari is gonna be a middle eastern woman who practices Islam that's 3 big parts of her identity so when she eventually runs into some situation when it will come up I'm sure I'll be reading the "no agenda" and "keep political stuff out" etc.. Etc.. I'm just trying to understand when does having scenes about what is central to a character become too much... In the four years of the flash.. Has Iris ever mentioned being black woman and the myriad of things that come with that and if she did have an episode where issues dealing with being iris west.. Would we see the same complaints.. Because I do.. Everytime minorities start to speak abt being minorities there's some kind of pushback especially it seems in Sci-Fi.. At least in my opinion 

Unless you're watching Seventh Heaven, shows rarely make a point of Christian practices.  Felicity's Jewishness is rarely brought up on Arrow (I think only at the midseason holiday party). Why would they make Zari's beliefs any  more front and centre? 

When TV brings on minorities, they tend to do so using caricatures because that's what the mainstream writers think of  when they think of a minority person.   Remember Bruce Lee as Kato or the cook Hop Sing on Bonanza?  Jay Silverheels was a Golden Glove boxer, excelled in athletics and lacrosse and raised and raced Standardbred horses. His father was a decorated WWI hero and trained soldiers. But you'd never think that from the "Me go now, Kemo Sabe" that he had to act.

I'm really glad they didn't put Zari in a hijab.  Some Muslim women wear one and others don't. I was afraid they would put Zari in one to show how progressive they are.  I"m glad subtle won out.  Maybe she can refuse alcohol or pork at a meal and leave it at that level.

12 hours ago, kismet said:

When they were "arrested" didn't the drone identify Ray & Nate as metas in violation of the code?? Not sure if they are technically metas per comic standards. But both of their powers change their physical being, so for me that would make them metas.

IIRC, they were on the list "for violating the Metahuman Act".  I figure they were protecting metahumans in some other timeline.

[tennisgurl]

42 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

So instead we get something a hundred times worse, we get a character that just goes "Oh BTW I'm Muslim" in passing without any actual effect on the character or their behavior, which makes the whole fact that they are Muslim completely pointless and thus shouldn't even have mentioned until and if it ever became relevant to anything. Otherwise it's simply a detail the writers added so they could check off another box from their political correctness checklist rather than something that actually enriches the character.

I will take subtlety in a characters religious and cultural background over making a huge deal, or not acknowledging that such backgrounds either exist. In general, TV takes two approaches to religious characters. Either its brought up once or twice a season (like when a character is Jewish only during the yearly holiday episode) or its all there is to the whole entire character and its all they ever talk about. I dont think its them trying to be PC, it was used to quickly build up the awfulness of the future world Zari if from, where people are not free to practice their beliefs, and showed her connection with her lost family. They could end up not using her well, but its a good introduction to a character using her background, and while I dont know how much it will be relevant in the future, I think its always good to show a wide variety of characters of different backgrounds and beliefs. Legends is based all around people of different skills sets, backgrounds, and personality types afterall. 

[johntfs]

17 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe she can refuse alcohol or pork at a meal and leave it at that level.

I'm already writing the bit in my head where they're at a bar/restaurant and Mick asks her "You want a beer?"  She'll say something like "No thanks, I'm Muslim."  And he'll reply "More for me, then."

As I recall, Ray Palmer is Jewish.  As for Nate, Stein, Sara, Amaya, Jax or Mick I really have no idea.  Maybe some kind of nature spirit worship in Amaya's case because it's "the family business" but otherwise no idea.

Edited October 26, 2017 by johntfs

[Lady Calypso]

So, I liked the introduction to Zari. I honestly think she's the prettiest woman in the Arrowverse, and it helps that I like her character too. She's competent and can protect herself, but she also is fine with having help from the Legends. She's not necessarily reckless, but courageous, but she wasn't overtly rude to the Legends...well, besides using them to get her totem necklace back. I also liked her interactions with various characters. This show has been good at utilizing the ensemble and mixing up pairings, as a lot of ensemble shows, or shows that have many characters even if they're more supporting, falter to their same generic pairings. Zari's interactions with Ray and Mick, in particular, worked well.

They really DID work hard at not just having Jax and Stein not become Firestorm, but also having Stein stay on the ship. It felt like Victor Garber cut his time on this show this season because in three episodes, it feels like he's only been in three scenes each episode. 

High Nate was funny because everyone got to actually be annoyed at him. Their reactions to Nate were pretty hilarious. I've been really irritated by Nate this season, but at least I can laugh at High Nate. 

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'm already writing the bit in my heas where they're at a bar/restaurant and Mick asks her "You want a beer?"  She'll say something "No thanks, I'm Muslim."  And he'll reply "More for me, then."

I might have to go back and rewatch the bar scene, but was Zari drinking when the Legends found her, or was she just sitting there? 

Oh, Gary. He's a character I think they might be overusing. I mean, sure, he's funny and he's a mostly harmless detriment to the Legends compared to Ava, but I simply don't think I want to see him stumbling around every episode, or every other episodes, just to remind the audience how incompetent the Time Bureau is.  

Sassy Gideon is the best. 

[darkestboy]

Good introduction for Zari. Already like the character and I think she's going to work well with the team for the season.

The fact she's an airbender and has a connection with Amaya through their totems is interesting as well.

Kuasa didn't waste time in making her presence now. I think she's a good antagonist so far.

Nate being high was amusing enough but he's better in small doses though.

Perhaps we could have a breather from Ava's sniping for a bit. Gary seems to be there to be ridiculed mostly.

Some great moments with Jax, Sara, Mick and Ray in this episode and I liked the sting for the next one, 8/10

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, Gary. He's a character I think they might be overusing. I mean, sure, he's funny and he's a mostly harmless detriment to the Legends compared to Ava, but I simply don't think I want to see him stumbling around every episode, or every other episodes, just to remind the audience how incompetent the Time Bureau is.   

I thought the "Oh, crap, Ava's going to kill me when she hears about this!" look on his face about one second after he'd blabbed to Zari about the Waverider being a timeship was priceless.  I'm betting that by season's end, Gary ends up either quitting the Time Bureau or getting kicked out of it for being an incompetent doofus and joining the Legends permanently.

[Featherhat]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'm already writing the bit in my heas where they're at a bar/restaurant and Mick asks her "You want a beer?"  She'll say something "No thanks, I'm Muslim."  And he'll reply "More for me, then."

As I recall, Ray Palmer is Jewish.  As for Nate, Stein, Sara, Amaya, Jax or Mick I really have no idea.  Maybe some kind of nature spirit worship in Amaya's case because it's "the family business" but otherwise no idea.

Ray Palmer is Jewish in the comics but nothing has been said on the shows. It would make sense because it would be another reason why he and Felicity should be perfect for each other but ended up not being. Stein is actually a Rabbi although that's never come up on LOT but he married Ronnie and Caitlin on The Flash., Jax used to go to Sunday school as a kid so his mother is a practicing Christian, at least some of the others are probably culturally Christian if not believers. They managed to go a whole season talking about the spear of destiny and the blood of Christ without any discussion of beliefs coming up except for Rip acknowledging they can't go back to the crucifixion to get more of Jesus's blood(!) for the obvious reasons of not wanting to bog the show down in it. I think they handled the mentions of it ok for Zari but it might end up a bit weird if they keep bringing up her beliefs and no one elses (if any). 

[Maelstrom]

I loved this episode. It was a great introduction to Zari - we get a sense of her personality, what makes her tick, what her biggest strengths and vulnerabilities are. I think she'll fit in with our favorite time-traveling oddballs just swimmingly. And as always, CL and DP make the episode for me. I may have started watching for AD, but Caity and Dominic are the ones that consistently steal the show. Both were utilized well in this ep, and I really like the connection they're building between Mick and Zari. For the record, I wish they'd stay away from romantic pairings within the team, since they've yet to do so successfully - but as mentioned Mick and Zari seem to have more in common with each other than with anyone else, so seeing them connect platonically will be cool. Also, Mick's been at loose ends since Snart's death (*sniff*) so it's time he got a new partner/counterbalance. I loved that they used Mick's criminal knowledge to their benefit, finally.

Not sure how they're going to connect Amaya, Zari and Kuasa but I'm looking forward to finding out. Also, Zari's an Airbender!! And Kuasa's a waterbender! Does that make Amaya the Avatar?

On 10/24/2017 at 8:20 PM, KirkB said:

I like having another woman on the Waverider but I'm not sure why two of them need to have magic necklaces.

Who doesn't want a magic necklace? I'd love one. Maybe it stems back to watching the Jem and the Holograms cartoon when I was little and wanted my own pair of magic earrings so badly (I was five, don't judge me)

On 10/25/2017 at 7:00 AM, Sakura12 said:

Sara's team respects and supports her more than either of their teams do. Mick Rory calls her boss and listens to her even when he doesn't agree, that's a major accomplishment that should be recognized by team Flash. 

Good point! I'd love to see this acknowledged in the crossover.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:26 PM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This is my biggest problem with the Nate Heywood character:  He's selfish.  He thinks most things are about him, and when they're not, he goes out of his way to involve himself or whines & pouts about it.  Then they go and have Amaya be an enabler by affectionately smiling at his self-serving actions.

YES. This so much. It's one of my pet peeves in real life when bad behavior is tacitly encouraged with smiles and "Oh, you". And I hate watching it on tv. That moment in the medbay when Nate's being a dick and Amaya just smiles at him and lets his behavior go unchallenged made me want to throw something at the tv. I don't like the character of Nate to begin with because he feels unnecessary and all of his functions can be filled by other characters. And while I'll give the actor props for decent comic timing he's not charismatic enough to draw me in despite myself the way some actors can. Also, he's gotten the B-story every single episode this season, at the expense of screentime for other characters. And then they go and have him act like a damn frat boy all the time, and there's just no redeeming quality left to Nate IMO. Ugh.