S04.E01: The Flash Reborn

[Trini]

Quote

"The Flash Reborn"

With Barry in the speed force, Iris, Kid Flash, Joe and Vibe have taken over protecting Central City. However, when a powerful armored villain threatens to level the city if The Flash doesn't appear, Cisco makes a risky decision to break Barry out of the speed force. However, the Barry that comes out isn't the same Barry that went in.

Glen Winter directed the episode with story by Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Todd Helbing & Eric Wallace

[Lady Calypso]

You know, I have some complaints but....it really was a good premiere altogether.

First off, smiling Barry is a really nice change. He hasn't smiled so much since mid season 1. Grant Gustin is still an excellent actor, so even when his character grated on my nerves for two full seasons, I still liked Grant. This episode showed off another side to his acting. I kind of enjoyed crazy Barry. That scene in the police station was very well done. It's going to be weird getting used to Happy Barry, but hopefully this growth/reset/whatever sticks. 

I mean, the way Barry came to was predictable and a little forced, but I'm just glad Barry's back.

As for the team dynamic, I absolutely adored it. While putting Barry in the speedforce, it allowed for the show to really feel like an ensemble, with the team showcasing their abilities. 

Iris got to be completely useful! And we got to hear about her feelings! And she got scenes with Cisco, Caitlin, and Joe! Iris was just awesome. I love that they gave her the leadership role, and she rocked it. Even with being the pessimist about Barry, I liked that they let her explain in her scene with Barry and it made sense as to why she pushed the hope away. 

As much as I tilted my head at the whole Samurai Guy must be Japanese assumption, I did find myself chuckling at Wally knowing Japanese. That was a nice twist. I also laughed at the code that Cisco deciphered. I'm going to guess that may come back into play at some point, though what could "This House Is Bitchin'" possibly mean? 

So, Caitlin still is trying to get Killer Frost under control, but no explanation yet as to how she's held her down and is able to take over. My first thought is that it has to do with the choker she's wearing. 

Overall, a better premiere that I expected. I like how they kept it light. If that's a sign for how the season's going to go, I might like it. 

[bettername2come]

I have no complaints. That was a solid hour of television. Cisco's hair was awesome. Loved Caitlin's new look. Didn't think her Jekyll and Hyde was too contrived. Like that Barry went back to being faster than Wally (who really should've know what "duck" meant). Loved Iris having faith in Barry. Grant did a fantastic job playing crazy Barry. I liked Iris stepping up in his absence.

"We're gonna need more diapers." Because of the twins?! Because they're having twins?! Those were all things Barry has said or will say in the future right? Because he said stuff he said to Oliver in the pilot and things he said when his dad was arrested and the stuff that sounded like it correlated with the flashforward where he was in jail. I also feel like the stuff about melting stars is relevant, but I don't know what it could really mean.

[KirkB]

That was fun. Which the Flash hasn't been in quite a while.

I'm not sure where Iris learned to program anything but she's a smart woman so why not?

Cisco and Wally make a surprisingly good team. Which is odd for me to say because Wally usually bugs me. I mean, he still does, but it's not nearly as bad it used to be. I guess I've gotten used to him?

I'll be curious to see why the new bad guy would WANT the Flash back. Seems like that would cause him more trouble.

Barry's back! I don't just mean from the speed force, I mean this seems the first time we've seen the real Barry in a long while. I doubt he's going to just get over being in the speed force that easily though.

I'm actually looking forward to the Flash again. I forgot what that was like.

[tofutan]

Was that a future newspaper on the screen? Maybe he wants to manipulate something in the future? 

I also thought Barry was just sort of experiencing past and future at the same time, maybe jumping back and forth in his own timeline. 

Grant was lovely. 

Candice looked beautiful. I disliked that while they showed her figured out the jumping pattern, it devolved quickly into nobody listening to her and doing things behind her back. That said, it felt like she was having her own "have a little faith" mini arc in the episode. 

[tennisgurl]

I thought that was actually a really good episode, and a super promising start to the season! 

Even when Barry pisses me off, Grant is a really good actor, so I`m glad he got to play some different sides to Barry this week. Crazy brain damaged Barry was sad to see (especially because his family was so clearly heartbroken by how messed up he was) Grant did a great job, and he seemed so happy at the end! Barry has such a great smile, I want to see it more! I also really liked all the beats between him and Iris, and how much Iris shined. We got so much time with her, and talking about her emotional state, and how she refused to do anything but be "strong" out of fear that she would have a total meltdown if she even started crying, it was just super well done. 

I liked seeing Cisco and Wally teaming up, and Caitlin being more or less back to normal. I still have no idea how the split personality thing works, but this seems like a decent way to make it work at least. But I enjoyed the ensemble feel of the show, and all the interactions between each other worked really well. My only real complaint is Julian leaving off screen. I get why he would want to head home, but it would have been nice to see him one last time. Unless he is coming back later (haven't been keeping track of spoilers) anyway of course. 

I think Barry was experiencing multiple points in time, as other people said. It sounded like he was talking to Oliver at one point, and he started talking about his mothers death, and maybe the random gibberish was from future events? 

[bmoore4026]

Did...did Barry just call Iris "Lois"?  OH, GOD, HE'S NOT OUR BARRY!!!

And Caitlyn is still a bad girl and several people still need acting lessions.  Yep, The Flash is back.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Barry!!! Happy, Light? ADORKABLE Barry is BACK!!!!!! PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE let him stay!!

Next week looks HILARIOUS!???????

[RedVitC]

That was a solid start to the season. All the character got their little moments . Still going over everything, but some initial thoughts

-I chuckled at Wally's sudden Japanese. 

-Loved that they let Iris figure out the trajectory of pee ka boo

-I admit hard Iris took some getting used to, but Candice did a great job showing the sadness underneath. And I'm happy they actually let her explain why she had acted that way. Great performance. I didn't expect to cry because my mind was quite preoccupied, but I was still getting tears and everything.

-Iris got to interact with everyone!

-We're going to need more diapers!!

-You came back to me. Always (gorgeous scene)

-Barry telling Iris how proud of her he is!

-I hope there will be more to Barry's scribbles

-A little sad that the first time we got real, full conversations between Cisco and Iris it was because they were arguing. I feel like they needed a scene alone together.

-The plot with Amunet and Caitlin seems interesting. And at the very least opens up the world. 

-However...we literally did the  -i'm afraid of the person/my powers inside me - loses control - is brought back - 3 times already last season. And the thing is, they introduced the cure. Before the cure, in a way there was a mitigating factor in that she couldn't get rid of them. But she had a chance to get rid of the powers/person inside and chose not tot (and the cure is still lying there somewhere) so any bad deeds that she now does under it's control don't have those mitigating factors any longer. 

-I liked the little bits of humor here and there. 

-I'll have to see how team leader Iris goes. I liked that she got so much more to do (and how cute was it that Cisco called Iris boss) but I need to see non-hardened Iris as team leader first.

- This house is bitchin

-And Barry and Iris are beautiful. 

[benteen]

I thought that was a good episode.

The Thinker reminded me of someone out of Tron.  Glad to have a villain this season that isn't a speedster.

It's too bad that Tom Felton isn't there anymore.

[RandomWatcher]

Confirmation that Felicity and Curtis survived?

[ruby24]

"We're going to need more diapers" = confirmation that the Tornado Twins will exist. I wonder how soon they will get there on the show?

I don't think Caitlin should have been forgiven so easily for trying to kill everyone on the team. Come on. 

[Lantern7]

Feeling sick today. Might have gotten a bug at the con. At least the season opener was fun. I'm too exhausted to think "This House Is Bitchin'," though. Anagram finder was no help. I'm thinking t-shirts will be made and sold before the second episode.

I know, that was the Thinker in the end . . . but for a split-second, I thought

Metron.

Also, was anybody else thinking Roborai (sorry, Cisco) was going to be from the Speed Force? Jetpack and wings were sweet.

Great . . . Killer Frost is still a split personality of sorts. At this point, why not?

[RedVitC]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I think Barry was experiencing multiple points in time, as other people said. It sounded like he was talking to Oliver at one point, and he started talking about his mothers death, and maybe the random gibberish was from future events? 

He said something to a judge (your honor) about being innocent, I think that might be a future event. Plus the diapers line (we're going to need more diapers) might also be a future line.

[immortalfrieza]

Nice first third season episode. I particularly like how Iris was being Mission Control, which considering the writers seem to have completely forgotten she has a reporter job works well enough for her. Especially since for once in her existence Iris actually has something to do outside of simply being Barry's love interest and I hope they keep that up.

Getting Barry back should have taken more than just one episode but hey, we all knew he was never going to stay gone long.

Edited October 12, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[RedVitC]

Oh right, how could I forget, Cecile is moving in with Joe. They're getting serious. I wonder if they'll get married too?

And the whole 'duck' conversation made me giggle. 'I don't see no duck'. So silly, yet funny.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 minute ago, RedVitC said:

And the whole 'duck' conversation made me giggle. 'I don't see no duck'. So silly, yet funny.

On the other extreme, Iris surrendering to the Samurai in lieu of The Flash was just stupid -- did the people behind the Samurai know that The Flash was also her fiancé ? Probably since they were from the future, but Team Flash didn't know that.  Which makes Iris' action even more stupid.

[RedVitC]

1 minute ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

On the other extreme, Iris surrendering to the Samurai in lieu of The Flash was just stupid -- did the people behind the Samurai know that The Flash was also her fiancé ? Probably since they were from the future, but Team Flash didn't know that.  Which makes Iris' action even more stupid.

I don't know, it's not what I would have done, but I guess what they were going for is Iris had faith that Barry would come get her. And since it worked and he did, she was proven right. It was definitely a very big gamble though. But when you think about it,  belief in the impossible and defying what should be scientifically possible has been a thing in Barry and Iris' relationship. When she saved him from Grodd's mind control she did it just with her voice since tech couldn't do it, she saved him with True love's kiss etc. Even earlier in the episode his powers activated after she touched him just like in the pilot and 3x21. Considering those things in combination with what her father had just told her, that she needed to have faith, I don't think it's a stretch for her to have faith that she/his love for her could bring him back. 

Not saying it was the best plan, though. They could have just tried pretending she was in danger, you know? (though I think it might not have worked since when he ran he instinctively seemed to know where to go and where she was/what the situation was) . But I guess since she had been unwilling to take a leap of faith earlier in the episode they wanted her to take a big one later.

Wait, was it revealed those people at the end were from the future? I don't remember that. But they probably know a lot about Barry in any case (and she told the guy/robot that she was important to the Flash so she knew the villain didn't know. That's why she told him). I think the guy at the end orchestrated this whole thing because he needs Barry for something so he needed to get Barry out of the Speed Force.

[TDT]

For a brief second i almost thought that Robo-samurai was going to turn out to be a new version of H.R(speaking of which,will he be back this season?)

"I'm thinking.."..should make this a running gag for like half the season,when the Thinker and his underling appear in the stinger at the end of every other episode when his plans are foiled:

"So..what do you propose we do now?"

"Let me think on that for a second..."

[mxc90]

I hope the writers move on from the "trapping someone in the Speed Force" story. 

[PhoneCop]

"Iris is gonna die!" Barry's brain: "Relive Season 3? NOOOOOOO!" [immediately unscrambles itself]

I'll miss Draco, but if a lighter tone is the tradeoff, I guess I'll live.

[Trini]

I thought this was a good start for the season; excited to see how the things they set up play out - except for one arc.

-----------

Peekaboo! Glad they started with an action scene; the rest of the beginning was kinda sad. Loved seeing the team work together! 4-hour training? Ha - Iris keeps a tight ship.

Wally knows Japanese? Hee! I’ll bet he’s the vice president of the anime club/Japan society at CCU.

Wow, Cecile moving in? I guess Joe/Cecile really are progressing!

Sabbatical to Czechoslovakia? That's the ecuse for Barry's absence?? How did they explain him showing up naked and crazy in Keystone?? Please, show; tell me Captain Singh knows. He HAS to know!

Like the new graphics. Although, the CGI in the final action scene was a bit sketchy.

Another ‘Trial of the Flash’ tease?

Iris activating Barry’s powers with her touch - again!
Iris - Come get me.
DementiaBarry - Yes, ma’am!

I really would have preferred that Barry wasn’t pulled out of the speed force, but instead left himself (somehow). It just makes me feel that it’s going to come back and bite everyone later.

When Barry lost Iris, Team Flash fell apart; but when Iris lost Barry she kept everyone together.

There really was a lot of Cisco and Iris in this. Liked that they showed the different ways everyone was dealing with Barry being gone; and they got to express their feelings. (Except Wally?)
Poor Wally. He has to be Kid Flash then nobody wants to be on Team Kid Flash.

Well, all the Barry/Iris scenes left me a mess, so good job, show (and Grant and Candice). It was heartbreaking when Iris was finally able to be vulnerable when Barry returned; and awesome that she knew she could bring him back. I might have let out some squeeing noises at that kiss in the field. Maybe.

Maybe a few too many pop culture references, but that’s a minor nitpick.

I figured Caitlin would be back with the team soon; but besides one apology to one person, nearly everything from last season has  been swept under the rug. And they’re still going with the Jekyll/Hyde interpretation of Caitlin's powers/Killer Frost. So her story is going to continue to blow this season too. Got it, show.

Wow, I wasn’t really expecting to actually see the Thinker this early.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

-  There were some slight nitpicks, but nothing to really waste time talking about.

-  This season premiere blew the last two out of the water, especially last season's.

-  Can't be mad about 'Happy Barry' and now being able to truly own the mantle of "Fastest Man Alive".  It was funny for all the wrong reasons, but the paraphrased line about Barry 'finally being unarguably faster than you, Wally' was just so wrong.  He always should have been faster than Wally.

-  I do (somewhat) worry that the writers will mess up some good things by trying to force an OTT angsty storyline about messed up timelines because Barry was released from the SF prison, or at least when he was.  We've had enough of that in the last two seasons, TPTB, so just please no.

-  So is that the going theory?  That Barry was spouting lines from his past (obviously) but the gibberish is future events that are yet to happen, and we'll see play out later??  I like that, both the idea and potential execution.   "We're gonna need more diapers."  

-  Could really do without the on-going constant struggle of Caitlin trying to fight off the KF persona & tendencies, but maybe they'll not overdo it.  (not holding breath, though)   I could get behind it if they have her use the powers for good, like out in the field with the team.

-  Speaking of team, looks like Vibe is going to be a lot more proactive. 

-  And let's hear it for S1&2!Cisco.  Compared to you-killed-Dante-you-bastard(S3)!Cisco, its very awesome to see him return to form.

-  At first, I was a little ticked that they had Iris consider/believe Barry was dead (or very good chance he could be) and not even having a slight hope of seeing him again.  But I quickly realized that was mostly just a defensive coping mechanism.  Didn't want to keep false hope, etc.  But having her take over as team leader really brings her character to the forefront.  Hope that continues.

IF the general feel of this season opener continues, I'm glad to have The Flash back. 

[Jediknight]

Love Barry's new suit, and thank you that the main villain of the season is definitely not going to be another speedster.

"This house is bitchin'", that line's going to be important later.  Just a hunch.

[thuganomics85]

Few quibbles aside, this was a vast improvement from pretty much all of season three.

A little bit risky keeping Barry off the screen and then out of his element (or mind) for the majority of the episode, but I liked seeing the rest of Team Flash (sorry, Wally, Team Kid Flash is not going to happen, buddy!) working together and the interactions.  Liked that Iris took over the Observer role while Wally and Cisco were the ones on the street.  In general, it was a pretty good episode for both Iris and Cisco.  Candice Patton was fantastic and while it was frustrating at times when Iris dismissed Cisco's plan, I could still tell that it wasn't because she was heartless or didn't give a shit, but she just couldn't bring herself to hope that they could save Barry, and then have it crushed.  But I loved that Cisco was working on a way to save him since the beginning.  He truly is a great friend to Barry (err, baring the clusterfuck last season.)  Carlos Valdes continues to shine.

Oh, shit!  Joe and Cecile have officially moved in!  Don't fuck it up, Joe!  More importantly, don't suddenly kill her off to create manpain, show!

Bummed that Julian is no longer here, but I suspected Tom Felton wasn't a long term thing.

So, Caitlin apparently has some kind of Jekyl/Hyde deal going on, where she alternates between normal Caitlin and Killer Frost, but doesn't remember anything.  That could be troubling.  Although on a shallow note, Danielle Panabaker was rocking that tank-top and jeans look!

No sign of Tom Cavanagh, but he's still in the credits, so I'm sure we'll be getting another variation of him this season.  The possibilities are endless!

Fun seeing Peek-a-Boo for a second!

So the new main baddie isn't a speedster (at least I hope not!), but some guy that looks like a cross between Professor Xavier and Brainiac.  Do love that his assistant is played by Kim Engelbrecht, who I loved on Syfy's Dominion years ago.

Well back, The Flash!  Solid start, so don't lose this momentum!

[Bats27]

Can we just let Caitlin control her powers and be an anti-hero already?  This "she cannot control her powers" plot has gotten really old by this point.

Other than that, it was a decent premiere.  Wally speaking Japanese was hilarious.

[mrspidey]

So Barry's mind was basically "Dr. Manhattan"-ing it up, existing in past, present and future simultaniously. Hence the quotes from the past and, likely, the future. Iris putting herself in danger helped him to re-anchor his mind in the present. 

At least that's how I understood it. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Can somebody clear this up? 

Was all of the symbol-gibberish writing that Barry did, between the time he was pulled from the SF and 'waking up' to save Iris - which was a lot of writing - was it all just "This House is Bitchin'" repeated over and over again??

If so, then yes, that phrase will be very important later.

..... and I wonder if it doesn't turn out to be something like an anagram for something else, as the phrase itself is kinda weird.  (wonder if its a tie-in to the mega-crossover event in about 8 weeks?)

Edited October 11, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[cambridgeguy]

Normally I'd say Joe is a dead man this season (things are going well with Cecile, his kids are all OK, he's an adult on a CW show, etc.) but I'm not sure if they want such a downer. 

Biggest shocker - apparently the CCPD forensics department consisted of more than Barry and Julian although I'd like a job where I can vanish for six months on a "sabbatical" and still have it waiting for me.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Normally I'd say Joe is a dead man this season (things are going well with Cecile, his kids are all OK, he's an adult on a CW show, etc.) but I'm not sure if they want such a downer. 

Biggest shocker - apparently the CCPD forensics department consisted of more than Barry and Julian although I'd like a job where I can vanish for six months on a "sabbatical" and still have it waiting for me.

I know, right?  I wonder if this will lead into the show letting us (the audience) know that Singh knows BA is The Flash, saying as much to his & Joe's face.

[quarks]

Good things:

1. Yay, Iris is finally a full fledged member of Team Flash! Particularly liked that she was able to figure out Peekaboo's three hops. More of this Iris in the future, please. 

2. Speaking of Iris, excellent episode for Candice Patton, especially in the first half, where she managed to convey just how much of her attitude was pure defense mechanism and how much she wasn't coping with Barry being gone. See, Flash, this is why you need to give Iris more to do!

3. Loved the Camille/Joe interaction about the jazz records. 

4. And the ducks. 

5. Yay, we have adorkable Barry back. Let's keep adorkable Barry. Oliver can keep doing all of the brooding for the Arrowverse, with Rip joining in from time to time. 

6. Still loving all of the Star Wars jokes. 

7. Wally's fluency in Japanese was a great touch.

Questionable things:

1. As said, yay for adorkable Barry - his return is something this show desperately needed. That said, unless he's lying, Barry doesn't even remember his time in the speed force, or even his scribble on walls time here, just stepping into the Speed Force and then rescuing Iris, creating yet another example where someone (in this case, Iris) ends up suffering all of the pain/consequences of Barry's actions, while Barry once again faces only limited to no consequences. 

2. As said, delighted that we finally got a glimpse of strategic Iris. A lot less delighted that we almost completely lost that Iris in this same episode. I realize the show was trying to make a point about faith and trust and belief, not to mention making the romantic point that no matter what happens, Barry will always come for Iris, yay, but the plan itself? Really bad. Having the show try to claim that Iris held the team together while simultaneously noting that at least two team members (Julian and Caitlin) had left and one member (Cisco) was doing stuff behind her back? 

A repeat of one of the most frustrating parts of this show: it will give Iris something, and then undermine her. Sigh.

3. The Thinker looks entertaining, but didn't we already do the plot of "evil villain wants the Flash alive and well" back in the first season?

4. And speaking of repeated plots, as everyone else has noted, didn't we already do Killer Frost evil/Caitlin good?

Bad things:

1. Putting the Arrowverse's favorite outdoor staircase in the back of the scene does not hide the problem that we have already seen it twice this season, which does not bode well for the rest of the season.

2. One issue with this multishow Arrowverse thing - So, Cisco tells us that he's worked with various other Flash and Arrow characters, including Felicity and Curtis, like, ok, Arrow, not that any of us were exactly worried that anyone from Team Arrow was actually going to die, but way to ruin the lack of suspense there. But who does Cisco not mention? Jax, Stein or Ray - even though later that same night, we learn that Wally has been working with Nate and that Jax and Stein have been back in Central City for months. While I'm on the subject, I know the answer to this is "budget," but when you have an evil overpowered samurai flying around, and also have, as Legends of Tomorrow put it, a nuclear powered superhero flying around, a quick text seems like your next step. Oh well. At least this won't be a problem in future episodes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

2. One issue with this multishow Arrowverse thing - So, Cisco tells us that he's worked with various other Flash and Arrow characters, including Felicity and Curtis, like, ok, Arrow, not that any of us were exactly worried that anyone from Team Arrow was actually going to die, but way to ruin the lack of suspense there. But who does Cisco not mention? Jax, Stein or Ray - even though later that same night, we learn that Wally has been working with Nate and that Jax and Stein have been back in Central City for months. While I'm on the subject, I know the answer to this is "budget," but when you have an evil overpowered samurai flying around, and also have, as Legends of Tomorrow put it, a nuclear powered superhero flying around, a quick text seems like your next step. Oh well. At least this won't be a problem in future episodes.

You're much kinder than I. I don't think it's budget at all. I think the writers thought: 'this is so kewl! let's have Cisco throw out these names, because to show Iris he wasn't alone in wanting and trying to get Barry back! Wouldn't that be awesome?' And didn't give any thoughts whatsoever to how that would affect the other shows or what the other shows had already done. AND they probably didn't talk or text or skype, or whatthefuckever with each other to make sure everyone was on the same page.

And I don't care that for now, Barry has a blank space between going into that Fucked Up Speed Force and returning. I'm beyond thrilled! Ecstatic! to have MY Adorable, Adorkable, Sweet, Sweet, and SMILING Barry back!

Edited October 11, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[mac123x]

I wish I could remember the exact wording, but Barry said something like "when I was in the Speedforce, all the pain and fear and suffering just seemed to wash away".  Something like that.  My brain translated it as the writers saying "sorry for how dour and depressing the last season was.  We're gonna do better."

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I wish I could remember the exact wording, but Barry said something like "when I was in the Speedforce, all the pain and fear and suffering just seemed to wash away".  Something like that.  My brain translated it as the writers saying "sorry for how dour and depressing the last season was.  We're gonna do better."

Yeah, pretty much. But they also said last season was supposed to be lighter as well, and they FAILED in that, from the get go. However, last night's premiere showed me that this time, I we will get the Barry I we met in the back door pilot on Arrow. I'm sure Grant is also happy to be playing the Flash as he's meant to be played.

[quarks]

33 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 AND they probably didn't talk or text or skype, or whatthefuckever with each other to make sure everyone was on the same page.

 

The writers work in the same building, get their coffee/lunch in the same place and have mentioned regularly talking to each other, and the showrunners have said that they do speak to the other shows before mentioning the different characters.  All four scripts are also read/reviewed not just by the showrunners, who still include two people handling the finances/main actor approval (Berlanti and Schlecter) but also by multiple people at the CW, DC, WB, the affiliates, and (presumably) CBS. The showrunners have mentioned getting feedback from all of these groups except for CBS; there's an upcoming Arrow script that went through about seven revisions based on network/studio/legal comments.

And yeah, as we've previously seen, things still slip by all of this, but although I agree with you that this was a clumsy attempt by the writers to show us that "oooh, look, the rest of the Arrowverse is on Cisco's side, not Iris' side," I'm not buying the "didn't talk" to each other. I am buying the "the CGI for this windmill thing is already going to be dodgy and we don't want to pay out more guest star salaries," thing, because if there's one consistent thing we can count on, it's that these shows are going to be cheap. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by quarks

[KirkB]

While Cisco mentioning having worked with Felicity and Curtis on freeing Barry could be seen either as a slip up or a spoiler (and may very well be) there is the matter of the floating timeline between the series. That is, we don't necessarily know what is going on in one show while something else is going on in another unless they actually show us. For example, until Oliver showed up in black in the first season finale of Flash we didn't find out Arrow was apparently a few episodes behind. So it's possible part of the six months Barry was gone happened before Felicity and the others got their bang up tour of Lian Yu.

[DearEvette]

Good season opener.  Just the right amount of angst and enough real humor to already set it apart from dismal last season.

I loved this Iris.  She reminded me E-2 Iris whom I also loved.  You could tell Candice was soaking up the new direction in her character.

Also, surprisingly, I loved Caitlyn in this.  For all the people complained about Iris being wasted, Caitlyn may have had more to do, but from a character standpoint she was just as wasted.  I am liking her Jekyll/Hyde flavor we are seeing.

This ep actually had the feel of a comic book, specially the scenes of Barry/Iris at the wind farm and then the big, cavernous lair of the thinker.

[benteen]

Quote

1. As said, yay for adorkable Barry - his return is something this show desperately needed. That said, unless he's lying, Barry doesn't even remember his time in the speed force, or even his scribble on walls time here, just stepping into the Speed Force and then rescuing Iris, creating yet another example where someone (in this case, Iris) ends up suffering all of the pain/consequences of Barry's actions, while Barry once again faces only limited to no consequences. 

I have a feeling Barry is lying, which is par for the course on this show.  No doubt Caitlin will continue to conceal from the team that she is still Killer Frost because that's what these "close friends" do with each other.

[Quark]

I just love Iris.

[tennisgurl]

I really loved the little scene where Joe was giving Barry a shave, and Barry was just smiling blankly at him, and it looked like Joe was trying not to cry. Just really good acting without unnecessary dialogue. 

[cambridgeguy]

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I have a feeling Barry is lying, which is par for the course on this show.  No doubt Caitlin will continue to conceal from the team that she is still Killer Frost because that's what these "close friends" do with each other.

If he was lying then they probably would have shown him looking worried for a second - the man is not a good liar.  Regardless, there's nothing saying his memories and crazy ramblings won't come back to him later on. Caitlin, on the other hand, will hide things because of the way the show has set up her character as Two-Face: KF is a dangerous psycho who needs to be locked up while Caitlin Snow is their best buddy.

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1. As said, yay for adorkable Barry - his return is something this show desperately needed. That said, unless he's lying, Barry doesn't even remember his time in the speed force, or even his scribble on walls time here, just stepping into the Speed Force and then rescuing Iris, creating yet another example where someone (in this case, Iris) ends up suffering all of the pain/consequences of Barry's actions, while Barry once again faces only limited to no consequences. 

A Barry who feels guilty about subjecting his loved ones to six months of distress will not be a Barry who is light-hearted and fun.  We saw this last season with Flashpoint.

[statsgirl]

Candice Patton did a really good job here.  The music and camera work helped too.

14 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

On the other extreme, Iris surrendering to the Samurai in lieu of The Flash was just stupid -- did the people behind the Samurai know that The Flash was also her fiancé ? Probably since they were from the future, but Team Flash didn't know that.  Which makes Iris' action even more stupid.

So, so stupid.  Iris left Barry completely brain disturbed.  That kind of story where love amazingly cures all is better on OUaT.  If it had failed, the Samurai might have gone even more destructive on Central City.

I'm curious what's up with Caitlyn.

If there were so many metahumans created, and they aren't all bad (see: Barry, Cisco and Wally), why isn't there a a metahuman council to deal with laws and regulations for them, including a code for when they break human laws?  Why do they assume everyone is bad and needs to be incarcerated without a trial?

That's not schizophasia (word salad) that Barry had but I'm not going to quibble.  On the other hand, Carlos told Caitlyn that she had "two doctorates and a PhD".  A PhD is a doctorate, a medical degree is a medical degree and you only get one of them because why would you do the same courses twice?

I kept getting distracted by Iris' and Caitlin's black bras.

[Rachel RSL]

13 hours ago, Trini said:

I would have preferred that Barry wasn’t pulled out of the speed force, but instead left himself (somehow). It just makes me feel that it’s going to come back and bite everyone later.

Maybe there was some explanation for this, I tend to get lost when they start talking about technical mumbo jumbo, but I thought the speed force had to have a prisoner in it at all times or it went all wonky or something. Did I miss the explanation for how they managed to get Barry out without putting someone else in?

9 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

  (wonder if its a tie-in to the mega-crossover event in about 8 weeks?)

Mega-crossover....ugh! Are they going to try to get me to watch Arrow again? Because I refuse. Stop making Arrow part of the curriculum, dammit!

23 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

So, so stupid.  Iris left Barry completely brain disturbed.  That kind of story where love amazingly cures all is better on OUaT.  

That was so annoying! So much potential for so many things and they go with the ridiculous "true love breaks the spell" trope. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Did I miss the explanation for how they managed to get Barry out without putting someone else in?

Yes. Cisco had created this red doohickey that would take the place of Barry and fool the Speed Force into thinking that Barry was still in there...or something. Remember when he shot out that thingamajig, and we saw Barry speed out and disappear? They thought it didn't work, but the next minute, Barry is zipping around over the country? Before he stopped that truck and passed out.

[Rachel RSL]

Ah, yes. I do remember that. And I was confused about it while it was happening which is probably why I blocked it out completely. Can there only be one thing/person in the speed force at a time? Like, when they shot the doohickey in, did the speed force automatically eject Barry? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ah, yes. I do remember that. And I was confused about it while it was happening which is probably why I blocked it out completely. Can there only be one thing/person in the speed force at a time? Like, when they shot the doohickey in, did the speed force automatically eject Barry? 

I think so. But I'm a gonna hafta rewatch! Not that it would be a chore! I really loved having original Barry back!

[Maverick]

 Nora said Barry wasn't going to Hell, implying that he was going to experience something different than Wally and jay did. 

 What was the name of the woman Caitlin was working for?  I rewound twice and couldn't understand what either her or the henchman said.  

[Terrafamilia]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:49 PM, Lantern7 said:

I know, that was the Thinker in the end . . . but for a split-second, I thought

Metron

I didn't know who it was supposed to be and

Spoiler

Metron was the only DC character I could think of who would go around in a floating chair, though I realized that it would be very unlikely for it to be him (Metron is not known for having underlings). I also momentarily wondered whether Barry's scribblings were the Anti-Life Equation.

[Trini]

31 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 What was the name of the woman Caitlin was working for?  I rewound twice and couldn't understand what either her or the henchman said.  

Closed captioning is my friend: it was 'Amunet'.

 

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Normally I'd say Joe is a dead man this season (things are going well with Cecile, his kids are all OK, he's an adult on a CW show, etc.) but I'm not sure if they want such a downer. ...

I've always said, Joe is safe until he walks Iris down the aisle. After that, then I'm worried. But would they really want to end the season with YET ANOTHER regular's death when they want a lighter tone this year?

 

10 hours ago, quarks said:

2. One issue with this multishow Arrowverse thing - So, Cisco tells us that he's worked with various other Flash and Arrow characters, including Felicity and Curtis, like, ok, Arrow, not that any of us were exactly worried that anyone from Team Arrow was actually going to die, but way to ruin the lack of suspense there. But who does Cisco not mention? Jax, Stein or Ray - even though later that same night, we learn that Wally has been working with Nate and that Jax and Stein have been back in Central City for months. While I'm on the subject, I know the answer to this is "budget," but when you have an evil overpowered samurai flying around, and also have, as Legends of Tomorrow put it, a nuclear powered superhero flying around, a quick text seems like your next step. Oh well. At least this won't be a problem in future episodes.

I'm telling y'all, the showrunners do NOT pay attention to the other shows as much as you think (if at all). There are many more examples. (That's why, even in this connected universe, I don't think it's a good idea to use stuff on one show to 'prove' stuff on another.)

[tennisgurl]

30 minutes ago, Trini said:

I've always said, Joe is safe until he walks Iris down the aisle. After that, then I'm worried. But would they really want to end the season with YET ANOTHER regular's death when they want a lighter tone this year?

Yeah, thats why I think Joe will be alright, at least for awhile. If they really want to lighten the mood of the show, killing off Joe would be the worst thing to do. Besides, killing off Barry's adopted father after he already saw both his biological parents get murdered, and spent a year thinking his fiance would die? Thats hard to come back from as a fun, cheerful character.