Season 5 Discussion

[Arwen Evenstar]

@mamadrama, loved your supremely scathing insult of Luis.  This:

 would pack his bags and send him and his little fakely pious, gaslighting, disrespectful, inappropriate, gold-digging, stripper drooling, sanky panky, douchebaggery fuckery back to the DR. Coach. With at least 3 flight changes.

is just as good or even better than Antonio’s “ugly ass Batman Penguin Mutant Ninja Turtle” rant.

[millennium]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:31 PM, liammaam said:

Assholes, and WOO WOO girls.  I hate woo woo girls.  

Woo woo girls are actually a thing?    For real, I sat here thinking why the fuck do they keep going "woo woo" or "woo hoo?"  

[HappyDancex2]

1 minute ago, Bridget said:

According to Luis, apparently even those of us that love Harry Potter and might have Hedwig on a t-shirt or mug are all going directly to hell. At least that was MY takeaway. 

Well who cares about Luis and his voodoo owl fears.  I like my owl decor.  I know I don’t give a hoot.  

[mamadrama]

9 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

@mamadrama, loved your supremely scathing insult of Luis.  This:

 would pack his bags and send him and his little fakely pious, gaslighting, disrespectful, inappropriate, gold-digging, stripper drooling, sanky panky, douchebaggery fuckery back to the DR. Coach. With at least 3 flight changes.

is just as good or even better than Antonio’s “ugly ass Batman Penguin Mutant Ninja Turtle” rant.

Thank you! Man, I was pissed last night. :-)

[Bridget]

4 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

Well who cares about Luis and his voodoo owl fears.  I like my owl decor.  I know I don’t give a hoot.  

LOVE it! I really want to see your home decor now! 

Luis is probably afraid of birds or something and had to find another reason to "call out Molly" for not being "Christian enough" instead of being a man giggling and creepy 20-something man-boy who doesn't have the courage to say "I'm out of here because this is not going to end well." 

[millennium]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:31 PM, liammaam said:

Assholes, and WOO WOO girls.  I hate woo woo girls.  

I thought it was nice of Cher to go out with them.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Just now, Bridget said:

According to Luis, apparently even those of us that love Harry Potter and might have Hedwig on a t-shirt or mug are all going directly to hell. At least that was MY takeaway. 

My 12 yo niece LOVES owls.  Luis would lose his shit and accuse her of idolatry. 

Luis might claim he is from a Pentecostal family, but there’s nothing Pentecostal about: bar tending, drinking, premarital sex, online porn, strip clubs, etc. I know plenty of people who are pretty wild and crazy, but would draw the line on having anything that would be regarded as an idol in their household.  A statue of Buddha may be a bridge too far for Luis, and that may be one of the beliefs he can’t shake loose from. Beliefs can be very varied things.

But, he also knows she keeps crosses and Bibles in the house if he spent any time snooping around. His argument over the owl, accusing her of brujeria was utter nonsense. The strip club episode where he grumbled about being the man of the house rankled me.  This man child really believes he’s going to keep an independent woman 15 years his senior under his thumb? He showed us all just how ugly he really is by baiting and gaslighting Molly and then laughing at her. There’s way too much inequality in that relationship. Molly has completely emasculated Luis, and possibly didn’t realize what she’d done, and it bore nasty fruit.  He had no right to be a dick, but this is a long term problem they need to solve.  Respect is what makes relationships work, not just love.

[John M]

24 minutes ago, millennium said:

Woo woo girls are actually a thing?    For real, I sat here thinking why the fuck do they keep going "woo woo" or "woo hoo?"  

Yes they very much are, those love hanging out at gay bars like we are some sort of side show.

I'm better now but before marriage equality I lost my shit at some obnoxious wooo hoo bachelorette parties harassing us at a gay bar with their penis themed shit and bachelorette bar games.

[millennium]

All kidding aside, I think Sisters Libby are concerned about the authoritarian their sister is engaged to -- and have every reason to be.   At the same time I think they should also be concerned about Libby herself because as someone upthread suggested, it seems like she gets off on being controlled.   I felt it in the pit of my stomach when she brought out her outfits for Andrrrei's review.   In that instant she surrendered her self-esteem, her dignity and her autonomy while that like, monosyllabic, like, brute sat there like eating it up like.

Edited December 12, 2017 by millennium

[John M]

1 minute ago, millennium said:

At the same time I think they should also be concerned about Libby herself because as someone upthread suggested, it seems like she gets off on being controlled.   I felt it in the pit of my stomach when she brought out her outfits for Andrrrei's review.   In that instant she surrendered her self-esteem, her dignity and her autonomy while that like, monosyllabic, like, brute sat there like eating it up.

Did she? A lot of people, both men and women, gay and straight get off on being controlled in their relationship, getting controlled under the mutual understanding that being controlled is what they want and when they don't want it any longer like down to the second that they get exactly what they want.

The optics are confusing but I really get the impression that they have a bit of a dom/sub relationship and that absolutely does not mean she is being abused or taken advantage of, it might be exactly what she wants and demands.

[ava111]

6 hours ago, millennium said:

As an old school Cure fan I must protest -- and offer this alternate visual to describe Libby's mad lipstick skillz:

 

Oooh you brought me back to my memories of The Cure show I went to in Prague in 1990 or 91.  Me and my friend (who I was desperately in love with for 4 years) drove 8 hours on the train and didn't even have tickets. Put on our backs paper saying "The Cure tickets wanted" and wandered the streets till we found them. It was the best show ever. Maybe only Depeche Mode show was on that level. I attended that one in 1987 before we even had Velvet revolution and it was amazing. Definitely two of the best concerts I ever went to.

[magemaud]

Libby’s friend the Cher impersonator’s name is Shannon. She must be a Woo Woo girl because that was the ONLY thing she ever said while swinging around the penis balloon. I have to add Woo Woo girl to the growing list of things I’ve learned from this show. 

[ava111]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Is that what that was?   My first impression was that it was a wound, then I thought she was just being sloppy and had left a big gob of lipstick behind.   

It seemed like a line straight down on her lip and just prior to showing her putting fresh coat on she wiped all her lipstick with towel. I didn't think she would leave that much on if she was redoing her lips. And it definitely would fit with the weird lip thing she has going. But this is just my guess.

11 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Just wanted to say sorry about your week in the hospital and hope you are okay!

Thank you. Slowly recuperating and need surgery next month but watching this shit show full of losers is definitely making me feel better about my life LOL

[magemaud]

15 minutes ago, ava111 said:

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Is that what that was?   My first impression was that it was a wound, then I thought she was just being sloppy and had left a big gob of lipstick behind.   

It seemed like a line straight down on her lip and just prior to showing her putting fresh coat on she wiped all her lipstick with towel. I didn't think she would leave that much on if she was redoing her lips. And it definitely would fit with the weird lip thing she has going. But this is just my guess.

I took a screen shot of Libby's Lip and to me, it doesn't look like a repaired cleft lip but it's definitely some kind of scar and an injury would explain why the right side of her lip doesn't move. 

[millennium]

45 minutes ago, John M said:

Did she? A lot of people, both men and women, gay and straight get off on being controlled in their relationship, getting controlled under the mutual understanding that being controlled is what they want and when they don't want it any longer like down to the second that they get exactly what they want.

The optics are confusing but I really get the impression that they have a bit of a dom/sub relationship and that absolutely does not mean she is being abused or taken advantage of, it might be exactly what she wants and demands.

You may be right.   Many years ago I was friendly with a very smart, very funny girl.  I liked her a lot.   She let it be known that she's a sub which all seemed very abstract and trendy to me until the day came that I spent some time with her and her boyfriend and was forced to watch as he publicly insulted and taunted her, for being stupid, for being fat, ugly, etc.  She was none of these, of course.   She just sat there and took it.   Finally I told the guy off and left.    The next day she came to me angry that I had intervened on her behalf.   She explained she had no problem with the things he said, that she liked it, and I had no right to criticize him.

That was pretty much the end of our friendship.

[magemaud]

While I was rewatching, I saw that Libby's "friend" with the stringy black extensions is named Shannon. She must be a Woo Woo girl because that was the only words she said the entire time, and the only sign of animation on her face was when she was swinging the balloon penis. Now I have to add Woo Woo girls to my ever increasing list of things I learn from watching this show. 

[millennium]

39 minutes ago, ava111 said:

Oooh you brought me back to my memories of The Cure show I went to in Prague in 1990 or 91.  Me and my friend (who I was desperately in love with for 4 years) drove 8 hours on the train and didn't even have tickets. Put on our backs paper saying "The Cure tickets wanted" and wandered the streets till we found them. It was the best show ever. Maybe only Depeche Mode show was on that level. I attended that one in 1987 before we even had Velvet revolution and it was amazing. Definitely two of the best concerts I ever went to.

I saw the Cure at Giants Stadium in '89 or '90, the Disintegration Tour, and Depeche Mode twice at Madison Square Garden: the Music for the Masses tour and Violator.   The latter show was the best concert I ever saw.  Personal Jesus, Behind the Wheel, Route 66 ... blew me away.

[millennium]

12 minutes ago, magemaud said:

I took a screen shot of Libby's Lip and to me, it doesn't look like a repaired cleft lip but it's definitely some kind of scar and an injury would explain why the right side of her lip doesn't move. 

Scar or not, she still looks 100% better with a more a natural shade of lip color.

[Kellyee]

I really wonder if David fled to Thailand to avoid outstanding warrants for soliciting prostitutes, or to avoid child support, because I am 100% sure that I was right that there are some shady reasons that David fled the country. Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised if David was picking up prostitutes in Thailand before he met Annie. Annie needs to call Chris and Wife of Chris (I forget her name) and demand answers. David will never tell her the truth, but I'm guessing Chris knows everything.

I am back to my original assessment of Andre. He is too controlling. Libby is being controlled on all sides. She needs to leave Andre and her family and live somewhere where she can be truly independent.

I just can't with Molly and Luis. If Molly was truly concerned about her kids, there would be no question that Luis was going home to the DR.

Evelyn and David Spain have jumped ahead as least messed up couple. Which is really sad, considering. Maybe Evelyn's dad can talk to David about sex. Or may Luis can teach David about sex, since I suspect he's had it a lot and is probably pretty good at it.

Quote

While I was rewatching, I saw that Libby's "friend" with the stringy black extensions is named Shannon.

You watched that shit more than once? I am impressed by your stamina.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Kellyee

[lucy711]

8 hours ago, magemaud said:

You'll get lots of opinions here from moms because this can be a real hot topic, but there seem to be plenty of three year olds and even older kids with pacifiers nowadays. My daughter is now 35 and I was dead set against using one until the pediatrician pointed out it was "easier to take away than her thumb." Even then, she ONLY used it when she was in her crib, never out in public and I gradually weaned her off it when she was about three. I did hear May speak when Nicole was having a face time call with her mother, I think it was supposed to be "Grandma" but it was unintelligible to me. 

Yes- it is common to see 3 year olds with pacifiers, but I think many pediatricians are against it.  My son never used a pacifier, but his pediatrician told us when he was born that we should "lost it" when he turned one if he did like it.  My parents did the same with me.  I don't think we can judge May's speech because toddlers can be quiet in some circumstances and really chatty in others.  We haven't seen enough on her, and she would most likely be shy about talking in front of cameras.

But it does bother me that almost every time we see her, she is in front of a screen.  And based on what we know about Nicole, I highly doubt she has a set bed/nap schedule.  I have an 18 month old and was horrified when Nicole said that May wakes up multiple times during the night and needs her diaper changed.  That sounds like a newborn!

[seacliffsal]

Although I would never in a million years be attracted to Luis, it's really on Molly that there is so much conflict in her life.  I think she likes the drama.  During the episode there were a few times when her voice audibly changed-when she was getting upset in the restaurant and in the bedroom, her voice went to a lower register momentarily.  She also went into the bedroom with an intentionally sad face in order to get Luis to ask her what was wrong.

It really began in the DR.  At one point in the episode Molly accused Luis of thinking that life would be the same as it was when they were "dating" in the DR, but that it was 'different' here.  However, the persona that she presented to Luis during their entire courtship was probably one of clubbing, drinking, sexing, etc.  She may not have ever stated to him while they were in the DR what her expectations would be in the US.  So, he comes and all of a sudden he's the number one babysitter and dogsitter.  While he expects to have fun with Molly, she expects him to have fun with her daughters (and no, not in that way...).  He has been clear as to his expectations of life with Molly.  Molly keeps thinking that she can "change" him into a family man.  She has yet to learn that he isn't going to change until he wants to change.  Too many other people have had to learn that their partner(s) don't just magically "change" once married.  Yes, she should send him back to the DR (and I say "she" as I don't think Luis has the money to pay for his own airfare), but she also needs to re-evaluate her own intentions and interactions.  She shouldn't totally present herself one-way at the beginning of the relationship and then totally change (I have had many friends who presented themselves one-way while dating and then change after marriage-never a good look...).

Libby's sisters kept telling her that she could never have fun again after she got married.  Yet, they were going out and having their version of fun (which doesn't reflect in any way what I consider to be fun).  So, why are they badgering her with the idea of this is the last fun she will ever have?  Also, I have read many posts throughout the season that stated that Libby enjoyed playing the sides against each other and I really saw that in this episode.  She really does like baiting the sides against each other and having both sides "fight" over her.  Yes, she craves the drama and attention.

I hope the authorities find out that DavidPoor is back in Louisville and go after him for every back-owed child support payment he missed as well as any other warrants or debts that he has outstanding.  Annie is sure playing up her "innocence" for the cameras-crying because his children (well, more Ashley) weren't immediately loving and accepting of her.  So what?  Many potential step-parents are not immediately well received.  They work on developing relationships.  Maybe Annie has spoken with Molly and therefore just expected to fall into the family role...  David is playing his role for the cameras; however, he visibly let his persona drop a few times.

Wow, what people will do for a green card.

Oh, I wanted to add that sure Azan looked happy when Nicole left.  Her leaving for the US means that he almost has his K-1 Visa.  He desperately wants it for whatever reason.  Notice how apologetic he was about her time in Morocco-right as she was leaving.  He's smart in that he knows she will most likely remember the last thing said to her.  And, he wants to make sure she has fond memories and will get him to the U.S.  I really believe that he could find a better match/sponsor but I also think he doesn't care who it is as he has no intention of staying with her after receiving his work permit-I don't think he'll stay for the length of getting permanent residency.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by seacliffsal

[AZChristian]

15 hours ago, Bridget said:

According to Luis, apparently even those of us that love Harry Potter and might have Hedwig on a t-shirt or mug are all going directly to hell. At least that was MY takeaway. 

I guess I'm doomed with my Harry Potter tattoo and a corner of my craft room dedicated to HP memorabilia, huh?

ETA:  About Mae . . . of course she can say something other than "Daddy."  Did you not see her eyes light up and hear her scream "FRIES!!!!" when they were plopped down in front of her a couple of episodes ago?

ETA2 (Just having my morning coffee):  If Josh and Aika were going to see about a vasectomy reversal, why did they go to a fertility clinic founded by a doctor (the one they saw) who was an OB/GYN?  Why didn't they go to a urologist first?  You can just Google "Vasectomy Reversal" and come up with a place in AZ with a place that even has financing.  It's bizarre that they didn't go for a true "let's try first to fix what's broken" approach.

Edited December 12, 2017 by AZChristian

[calpurnia99]

8 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Although I would never in a million years be attracted to Luis, it's really on Molly that there is so much conflict in her life.  I think she likes the drama.  During the episode there were a few times when her voice audibly changed-when she was getting upset in the restaurant and in the bedroom, her voice went to a lower register momentarily.  She also went into the bedroom with an intentionally sad face in order to get Luis to ask her what was wrong.

It really began in the DR.  At one point in the episode Molly accused Luis of thinking that life would be the same as it was when they were "dating" in the DR, but that it was 'different' here.  However, the persona that she presented to Luis during their entire courtship was probably one of clubbing, drinking, sexing, etc.  She may not have ever stated to him while they were in the DR what her expectations would be in the US.  So, he comes and all of a sudden he's the number one babysitter and dogsitter.  While he expects to have fun with Molly, she expects him to have fun with her daughters (and no, not in that way...).  He has been clear as to his expectations of life with Molly.  Molly keeps thinking that she can "change" him into a family man.  She has yet to learn that he isn't going to change until he wants to change.  Too many other people have had to learn that their partner(s) don't just magically "change" once married.  Yes, she should send him back to the DR (and I say "she" as I don't think Luis has the money to pay for his own airfare), but she also needs to re-evaluate her own intentions and interactions.  She shouldn't totally present herself one-way at the beginning of the relationship and then totally change (I have had many friends who presented themselves one-way while dating and then change after marriage-never a good look...).

L

Not only that but if you watch that scene in the bedroom about the demons, it really points out how people in lust, who just fuck each other and think they are in love, don't know each other at all. Once they move in together and start to learn who each other REALLY are, they realize they cannot stand each other. To me it is a cautionary tale about lust vs. love.  You would think at age 42 she should know the difference. She has ZERO intellectually in common with this guy. He is a good fuck, okay, but that's it. It's not enough to base a marriage on. Sheesh.

[Bryce Lynch]

Luis was an uber hypocrite about Molly's decor.  I can understand a Christian having an issue with the Buddha statue, though I am pretty sure it is simply art to Molly as opposed to an idol or religious object.  But, his rants about the owls and the rest of the stuff were pure nonsense.  

His pornography, lusting after strippers, mistreating Molly and her children, etc. were FAR worse than anything in Molly's home.  Plus, if you want a pious, Christian woman, maybe shouldn't propose to a bawdy woman, 15 years your senior, in your bar, them moment you meet her.  

The "idol" in Molly's life is her sick, destructive relationship with scummy Luis, not any owl figurine, African mask or Buddha statue.  

David Poor's daughter was probably telling the truth about her Dad, but I did not like the obvious glee she took in it.   She was not trying to help Annie or her father, but to get satisfaction in upsetting Annie and trashing her Dad.  I can't say I really blame her, after the sort of father and man he has been, but it was not a good look.

Josh is a douchebag, gloating about how "Aika is the problem, not his vasectomy."  I am sure the editing exaggerated how much Aika's age and egg count were factors.  I would be the main reason the doctor wanted to to IVF was the fact that Josh's vasectomy might not be reversible and harvesting sperm for IVF would give them better odds.   

As bad as Josh was, I don't blame him for getting angry at Aika for saying she'd find another man.  That was way out of bounds.  If she doesn't want Josh (and I don't think she should want him) she should just dump him and find another man.  Using it as a threat to get what she wants showed an ugly side of her. 

David Spain and Evelyn seem to be getting a bit better at working things out.  I LOVED in the preview when David Spain called out his groomsman and defended his wife to be.  That sort of loyalty and putting his wife before his buddies, is a good sign, IMO.  

Nicole and Azan need to just give it up.  There is zero possibility of a successful marriage there.  

The Coven are disgusting.  I was proud of Libby for pouting until they gave her her phone back.  I would have liked for Andrrrei to have been a bit more understanding and trusted her more.   

Edited December 12, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Drogo]

Josh, talking about a woman's age and blaming her for things outside of her control are a surefire way to get your ass cheated on and left for the third time.

[Baltimore Betty]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

All kidding aside, I think Sisters Libby are concerned about the authoritarian their sister is engaged to -- and have every reason to be.   At the same time I think they should also be concerned about Libby herself because as someone upthread suggested, it seems like she gets off on being controlled.   I felt it in the pit of my stomach when she brought out her outfits for Andrrrei's review.   In that instant she surrendered her self-esteem, her dignity and her autonomy while that like, monosyllabic, like, brute sat there like eating it up like.

I really hope that we don't see a future Libby telling her sisters that Andrei only hits her when she has done something wrong.

There is nothing more unattractive than a man who thinks because he is a man he is the boss...I sound like a broken record but I am still not seeing anything remotely attractive about that man.

[MrSmith]

On 12/10/2017 at 9:44 PM, Forum member said:

Having no vasectomy experience, I'd have to think there's some sperm lurking in his balls. Could they shove a needle in there and extract some without doing a reversal?

I had a vasectomy 15 to 17 years ago. The body starts attacking the sperm and treating it like a foreign body (like a virus). So the sperm actually become malformed because of this. Even if Josh gets his vasectomy reversed, the defective sperm leads to a much higher incidence of birth defects. And the fact that his vasectomy is also more than five years ago, the odds of it being successfully reversed are probably in the fractions of one percent. My doctor told me when I was discussing having it done that if it isn't reversed within the first five years, you should consider it permanent because of the difficulty in reversing it and the damage done to the sperm by the body's immune system.

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I really hope that we don't see a future Libby telling her sisters that Andrei only hits her when she has done something wrong.

Mr. AZC was watching the show with me last night (we had recorded it because the Jeff MacDonald special was on).  When Libby came home and Andrei was giving her the cold shoulder, he looked at me and said, "Once they're married, he's going to start hitting her."  It kind of shocked me, because Mr. AZC is the kindest man on earth, and thinks well of everyone until he is shown to be wrong.  I hope HE is wrong on this.  IDK.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 hours ago, sasha206 said:

While I know fertility rates go down with age, you would think Aika was 43 and trying to get pregnant!

I wonder is Aika might be lying about her age for the show and be more like 40.  The doctor might have kept up that deception on camera, but given her the advice a 40 year old would get, rather than a 36 year old.  

[Kellyee]

Quote

Mr. AZC was watching the show with me last night (we had recorded it because the Jeff MacDonald special was on).  When Libby came home and Andrei was giving her the cold shoulder, he looked at me and said, "Once they're married, he's going to start hitting her."  It kind of shocked me, because Mr. AZC is the kindest man on earth, and thinks well of everyone until he is shown to be wrong.  I hope HE is wrong on this.  IDK.

I also had that thought watching that scene. The idea that she needs to text him back every single time within minutes and must ALWAYS be in contact with him is disturbing. She won't be able to keep that up and I don't trust his reaction once they are married. Also, her family is controlling and annoying, but I am starting to wonder if he might want to alienate her from them at some point. He gave off a different vibe than he did in the first episode. I hope they wait a while to have kids.

[Drogo]

8 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Mr. AZC was watching the show with me last night (we had recorded it because the Jeff MacDonald special was on).  When Libby came home and Andrei was giving her the cold shoulder, he looked at me and said, "Once they're married, he's going to start hitting her."  It kind of shocked me, because Mr. AZC is the kindest man on earth, and thinks well of everyone until he is shown to be wrong.  I hope HE is wrong on this.  IDK.

If I'm basing it on what I've actually seen of Andrei (and not what Libby/family seem to want us to believe about Andrei) I have to disagree.  Maybe a Jeff MacDonald doc isn't the best lead-in for giving men the benefit of the doubt. ;)  Andrei's very affectionate towards Libby and cares for her a great deal.  Her sisters suck and they've made no secret out of not liking him. 

IMO, wanting someone to keep their phone on them while they're out of town and going out to nightclubs where bad things can happen with several women who dislike you and/or not appreciating a "Fuck Off, Andrei" video text before several hours of radio silence isn't exactly Ike Turner behavior.  He seemed to shift his blame from Libby to the perpertrators of the Great Phone Caper pretty quickly given that he'd been stewing about it for some time by then.

[AZChristian]

Just now, Drogo said:

IMO, wanting someone to keep their phone on them while they're out of town and going out to nightclubs where bad things can happen with several women who dislike you and/or not appreciating a "Fuck Off, Andrei" video text before several hours of radio silence isn't exactly Ike Turner behavior.  He seemed to shift his blame from Libby to the perpertrators of the Great Phone Caper pretty quickly given that he'd been stewing about it for some time by then.

We would never go out and intentionally turn off our phones to shut down communication.  We don't even go to Sam's Club unless we BOTH have our phones - in case we get separated.  Here's one place I agree with Dr. Phil:  "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing."

The sisters were way out of line.  TBH, I fast-forwarded past their entire limo ride, getting ready to go out, and the party.  If I want to see people with no class screaming, I can watch Maury Povich.  And I don't.

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, lucy711 said:

Yes- it is common to see 3 year olds with pacifiers, but I think many pediatricians are against it.  My son never used a pacifier, but his pediatrician told us when he was born that we should "lost it" when he turned one if he did like it.  My parents did the same with me.  I don't think we can judge May's speech because toddlers can be quiet in some circumstances and really chatty in others.  We haven't seen enough on her, and she would most likely be shy about talking in front of cameras.

But it does bother me that almost every time we see her, she is in front of a screen.  And based on what we know about Nicole, I highly doubt she has a set bed/nap schedule.  I have an 18 month old and was horrified when Nicole said that May wakes up multiple times during the night and needs her diaper changed.  That sounds like a newborn!

It seems pretty clear that May has no structure or schedule at all. I almost fell off the couch when May was shown eating a sandwich in the middle of the night! How does that even happen? I'm serious. Even if your kid missed a meal and conked out early, would you make them a sandwich if they woke up at 2 AM? Give them a drink of milk, maybe, and put them back to bed would be my response. And the frequent wakings and needing to be changed during the night? That's really concerning in a preschooler.

13 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If I'm basing it on what I've actually seen of Andrei (and not what Libby/family seem to want us to believe about Andrei) I have to disagree.  Maybe a Jeff MacDonald doc isn't the best lead-in for giving men the benefit of the doubt. ;)  Andrei's very affectionate towards Libby and cares for her a great deal.  Her sisters suck and they've made no secret out of not liking him. 

IMO, wanting someone to keep their phone on them while they're out of town and going out to nightclubs where bad things can happen with several women who dislike you and/or not appreciating a "Fuck Off, Andrei" video text before several hours of radio silence isn't exactly Ike Turner behavior.  He seemed to shift his blame from Libby to the perpertrators of the Great Phone Caper pretty quickly given that he'd been stewing about it for some time by then.

I agree with this. That video text was just spiteful and mean. If someone sent something like that to me I would be angry and hurt. And Andrei has probably seen more than one news story about young women being roofied, for example. I really think he was anxious and concerned.

[PinkFlamingo]

11 hours ago, Bridget said:

YES! I saw it too! And the plate in front of May looked like it had a double helping of fries, as in a "skip the entree, but double the fries" meal. 

I know some posters have tried to figure out May's "real time" age vs. her age when filming, but let's just assume May was 3 years old when they filmed. Is it normal for a 3 year old to still need/use a pacifier? I don't have kids yet, but it doesn't seem normal to me. 

Seeing May "plugged in" at what looks like a family meal in the previews for next week pissed me off beyond belief. Whatever happened to talking/interacting with children or bringing a coloring book/crayons so they are engaged in some type of activity?  I don't mean to stereotype parents of all young ones (but that's the demographic that I see the most who stick their kids in front of screens) but Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Nicole, stop with the screens and talk to May since you apparently  have SO MUCH to talk about! 

I also have yet to hear May say anything other than "Daddy." Does she speak? Has anyone heard her say more than one word on any of these episodes? She's the one I feel bad for, so while it might look like I'm harping on her, I'm legitimately concerned for her overall development. Being in front of a screen constantly and not engaged in conversation are two ways to ensure that a toddler will most likely struggle with speech.

Even with the language difference at the Auntie's house, surely there was a way for May to hold up a doll or point at something, then say the English word for it and have someone there say the Arabic word for the item. Too bad her "mother" was too stupid to think about that for May or to pick up "Arabic for Dummies" for herself! How great would it be if May knew a hell of a lot more Arabic than Nicole? (Was it confirmed that Azan's native tongue is Arabic?)  We have had family friends for 20+ years whose native tongue is Arabic & while the dialect in Morocco is different than what I'm used to hearing, I'd swear Arabic was spoken in that house.)

I also noticed that May seemed exhausted when she was leaving Azan's Auntie's house for the airport (and it wasn't Early O'Clock AM) and at the airport too. I know adjusting to time zones, especially when headed east, is rough. (I struggled with a four hour difference this summer and it was bad!) Morocco is only five hours ahead of Florida. That kid is either narcoleptic or rules the roost in terms of her bedtime and whether or not she wants to take a nap!

Let's pretend Nicole put May to bed at a reasonable time (I know, I know). Even with May "waking up in the middle of the night", aren't little ones automatically programmed to wake up early? I know May's erratic sleep schedule is all Nicole's fault, but I don't understand why Nicole didn't adjust to the time difference after two damn months! Then again, it does require discipline to wake up when you're jet lagged, and it's crystal clear that Nicole doesn't have any of that, which is a shame because she can go screw up her own life, but to screw up May's life is just straight up horrifying.

My impression was speech delayed and I also think some speech delayed children don't say a whole lot. But maybe we just aren't shown her speaking, I don't know. 

I was reminded of some people I knew that raised a child by feeding her junk food and candy and plopping her in front of a TV 24/7.  The only things she would say was "what in your wallet" and other short phrases heard on TV commercials. They would all laugh at these phrases but I thought it was incredibly sad. The few times I visited I would find a book to read to her or teach her how to put together a puzzle, etc. 

[MrSmith]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:57 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Discount Snooki is a miserable, venal, trashy little witch.  I get that her dad is a POS, and her TH, where she showed her contempt for Annie was very telling. She’s also very unfortunate looking, since she looks like her father in bad drag. But it’s not so much her looks that make her ugly, but her behavior.

Annie was shocked by how Ashley spoke to her dad, because Asian culture respects parents  and elders. I’d be upset to have to bear witness to such dysfunction on a regular basis as well.  Ashley really overstepped her bounds by revealing things about her dad that weren’t her place and she took a sadistic pleasure in hurting Annie, who had come to her with an olive branch.

Personally, I suspect that his daughter and son have been through a lot because of their father. Remember, David also ran a scam asphalt company and got spanked by the government for it. On top of that, he tried to run for a position on the school board of a school district in which he did not even live! He tried to use Chris' address for the campaign and the local news busted him for it. So the way I took what Ashley was saying and doing is that she's solely pissed at her father and she wasn't going to miss out on the opportunity to make sure his new fiancee is well aware of his shady past because it's an opportunity to visit upon her father some of the pain that she feels. I mean, she has a point that if he hasn't really been involved in her life or her brother's life (David took off on his globe-trotting when his son was 13 years old!), how can Annie expect David to do any better with children Annie might have with him? Yeah, people can change and all that, but David is 48, which means he pretty much is who he is at this point in life.

[Chickabiddy]

35 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

58 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If I'm basing it on what I've actually seen of Andrei (and not what Libby/family seem to want us to believe about Andrei) I have to disagree.  Maybe a Jeff MacDonald doc isn't the best lead-in for giving men the benefit of the doubt. ;)  Andrei's very affectionate towards Libby and cares for her a great deal.  Her sisters suck and they've made no secret out of not liking him. 

IMO, wanting someone to keep their phone on them while they're out of town and going out to nightclubs where bad things can happen with several women who dislike you and/or not appreciating a "Fuck Off, Andrei" video text before several hours of radio silence isn't exactly Ike Turner behavior.  He seemed to shift his blame from Libby to the perpertrators of the Great Phone Caper pretty quickly given that he'd been stewing about it for some time by then.

I agree with this. That video text was just spiteful and mean. If someone sent something like that to me I would be angry and hurt. And Andrei has probably seen more than one news story about young women being roofied, for example. I really think he was anxious and concerned.

I'll second this and add: Can you imagine if Andrei and a bunch of his brohs  sent a similar taunting video text to Libby before going out for some seedy bachelor fun and turning off his phone.

"Yeah, hey, Libbs, we're taking your man out for a night sleazy fun and won't bring him back till dawn or until he is drunk and lap danced out, whichever comes first! Bye, Loser Libby. Have fun home alone thinking about all the one dollar bills your big A is going to go through."

I think if that happened, we would all be singing a different tune and posting that not only did Libby have a right to sulk the next morning, but she should throw that loser out in the morning or get what she deserves by keeping that man whore around. I firmly believe that what is good for the goose is good for  the gander. And Andrei holds himself to that same standard. Also, how shitty to be home alone and isolated all night in a country with no personal support structure, all while your soon to be wife (who you appear to really love and care for) is out with a group of straight up bitches who admit ON CAMERA that they want to destroy your relationship. If that's not worth a little bit of overreaction in my book, I don't know what it.

I don't think it is a huge problem if a 3 year old has a paci. I do think that Mae's frequent use of a paci is troubling because it is part and parcel of other indicators that she is not receiving the mental stimulation, physical activity, nutrition and general structure that she should. To reap:

Mae uses a paci  very frequently - not just at bedtime or to soothe before a nap.

Mae needs frequent diaper changes at night

Mae does not seem to be very verbal at all.

Mae has not been shown running around outside anywhere, playing with toys or activity books, etc. We only see her with her tablet and headphones. As mentioned about the preview, she is at a family dinner plugged in and totally tuned out to any human interaction around her. We never see people talking to her or asking her about her thoughts or feelings.

Mae has not even the remotest amount of structure in her life - midnight sandwiches anyone? Lying in the bed next to her mother at 3 pm.

Mae seems to be on the French Fry diet. Such a diet means she is nutritionally deprived and this could affect brain development, gut health, and even her adult height. I read that this will be the first generation of children who are going to be shorter adults on average than their parents because of the poor nutrition they received growing up.

Any one or two of these items in a child would not be too serious a concern, but Mae has all of these. I won't say she is developmentally delayed, but I will say that she is seriously lacking all the major elements of a support system to help her grow and reach her full intellectual and physical potential.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Chickabiddy

[AZChristian]

If I put myself in Annie's place, I would want to know everything about David before marrying him.  I would not like to hear what his daughter said, and I would assume that she is coming from a place of anger.  But it sounds to be justified anger.  Bottom line:  Daughter did Annie a favor by making sure she heard things about David that no one else was telling her.  Even Annie had to recognize the truth in some of the things that Daughter said . . . "He likes to party and he likes to drink."  Maybe Annie is thinking, "Hmmm . . . I met him in a bar where I was 'working' [per reports], so I know he also picks up prostitutes.  Maybe he's NOT going to be faithful starting at the age of 48."

This doesn't excuse anyone's behavior . . . but sometimes, the truth is not pretty.  And if David treated his family so badly that his daughter is still that angry, he has to own his part in that.

[sconstant]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

If Josh and Aika were going to see about a vasectomy reversal, why did they go to a fertility clinic founded by a doctor (the one they say) who was an OB/GYN?  Why didn't they go to a urologist first?  You can just Google "Vasectomy Reversal" and come up with a place in AZ with a place that even has financing.  It's bizarre that they didn't go for a true "let's try first to fix what's broken" approach.

Maybe you gotta go with who'll let you film?  Or someone knew someone?  Or the 23 year old producer googled "HAVING BABIES PROBLEM ARIZONA DOCTOR SPERM FIXING THINGEE WTF GET ME OUT OF HERE"?

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

22 hours ago, Sienna said:

My theory, and it's ONLY a theory, is that she may have had an Abby/Chris (from "Before the 90 Days") sort of situation. Involved with an older dude with some money (enough to pay for her boob job), maybe an ex-pat type living there part time. A relationship that stayed in limbo for years while she waited for whatever was promised (i.e. that he'd get a divorce, marry her, take her to the US, or whatever), until she ended up single, on the wrong side of 30, and willing to latch onto Josh for lack of better options.

I think this is an excellent theory! She is smart, pretty, articulate and seems like a woman who has had access to things and had options previously. 

[Ki-in]

From what I saw I liked Evelyn's dress. So tired of seeing the same strapless monstrosities on every single woman these days (Libby's was nice too).

Aika has zero time to waste if she wants a baby. Most fertility docs want 6 months of trying before they explore other options, so that's half a year gone. Plus if there are other issues that may take valuable time to resolve. Only 4 tries for invitro and if they don't take then what? Months turn to years and the eggs are not only dwindling but their "freshness" as well. She might have no problem conceiving but what if she has miscarriages? I think you're supposed to wait 2 months before trying again, more time gone. People love to relate how they or their sister/aunt/grandmother conceived first time at 50 but that doesn't help people who are truly struggling and desperate for a child. A good friend reminds me sooo much of Aika. Was beautiful and sexy and loved having fun but then at 36 baby fever hit her hard and all the men she had rejected as not cool/hot enough were taken, some were divorced and did not want a 2nd family and the ones left over weren't boyfriend let alone father material. It's very easy to let fertility slip through your hands these days. People look younger and therefore think their body is younger and they have unlimited time. Seeing older celebrity moms also add to the "well if they can have a baby at 45 so can I" without knowing what the celeb might have had to go through and how long they struggled to make it happen.

The Luis/Molly argument over satanic owls and scripture in the bathroom is one for the ages!

[Lady Iris]

I just wanted to reach through the tv and slap that greasy grin off Luis' stupid face. He tormented Molly and got off on it. I pray to God she packed him up and shipped his oily loser ass home. 

I do have to say I was impressed with Azan's handling of May, he seemed very attentive and sweet to her.

I say kudos to David's daughter questioning Annie if she thinks David would treat a child they have better her or her brother sitting at the table with them. Do they look happy? Are they satisfied in their relationship with their father? Sure didn't look like it to me. Plus all I could think of was, who's paying for dinner? He doesn't have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out.

[Indy USAF]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Mr. AZC was watching the show with me last night (we had recorded it because the Jeff MacDonald special was on).  When Libby came home and Andrei was giving her the cold shoulder, he looked at me and said, "Once they're married, he's going to start hitting her."  It kind of shocked me, because Mr. AZC is the kindest man on earth, and thinks well of everyone until he is shown to be wrong.  I hope HE is wrong on this.  IDK.

Andrei is from Moldova which borders Ukraine and I've been there 3 times.   I don't quite understand all the dynamics of it, but I might be able to help a little bit with the male/female situation in Eastern Europe.  For starters...the Nazis killed 15-20 million Russians/E. Euro men in WW2 and the sexes have never caught up.  There are only 86 men for 100 women in Ukraine and many of those men are drunks/serial cheaters.  It sets up a bad situation for women because the men run the show.  If a woman wants a man then there's a good chance that heavy drinking/cheating are going to be involved.  Its just a chauvinistic society, but of course many men are good men as well.  My fiancés brother is a great guy!!  I wonder if Andrei will ever adjust his thinking because submissive and attractive women are definitely not dime a dozen in America....atleast not for a guy that aspires to be a truck driver

[calpurnia99]

True story a family member was in his 50s and had had a vasectomy years earlier. His second (younger wife in her 30's I think) wanted a child so he had the Reversal. They were told the reversal was a failure so they spent their resources looking to adopt. They day after they got the adopted daughter home, she found out she was pregnant. The 2 sisters are only 9 months apart. The failed vasectomy was actually not a failure. You never know! 

 

35 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

From what I saw I liked Evelyn's dress. So tired of seeing the same strapless monstrosities on every single woman these days (Libby's was nice too).

Aika has zero time to waste if she wants a baby. Most fertility docs want 6 months of trying before they explore other options, so that's half a year gone. Plus if there are other issues that may take valuable time to resolve. Only 4 tries for invitro and if they don't take then what? Months turn to years and the eggs are not only dwindling but their "freshness" as well. She might have no problem conceiving but what if she has miscarriages? I think you're supposed to wait 2 months before trying again, more time gone. People love to relate how they or their sister/aunt/grandmother conceived first time at 50 but that doesn't help people who are truly struggling and desperate for a child. A good friend reminds me sooo much of Aika. Was beautiful and sexy and loved having fun but then at 36 baby fever hit her hard and all the men she had rejected as not cool/hot enough were taken, some were divorced and did not want a 2nd family and the ones left over weren't boyfriend let alone father material. It's very easy to let fertility slip through your hands these days. People look younger and therefore think their body is younger and they have unlimited time. Seeing older celebrity moms also add to the "well if they can have a baby at 45 so can I" without knowing what the celeb might have had to go through and how long they struggled to make it happen.

The Luis/Molly argument over satanic owls and scripture in the bathroom is one for the ages!

You are right about the fertility problem. Yes right now she is 36 and is probably okay -but it takes time due to all the reasons you describe- and she is pushing 40. If she doesn't start trying  TODAY she could easily be out of luck- this she seems to know! This is not a surprise to her and she is just insisting they start now. Things are not bleak yet, but time is not on her side with the loser husband needing a reversal and it may take a big longer to get her knocked up.  The biggest issue is this reversal and then waiting to see if it works and then if it does trying to get pregnant, She may well be 38 at that point. This is also not terrible, but not ideal. I do agree the doctor was jumping the gun a little bit talking about IVF right now - like they can afford that! I do agree a sperm donor is the best option, but Josh isn;t going to want parental rights (responsibilities) but the sperm donor does not either. I do think they would make a beautiful (facially gifted) child.

[John M]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

So, he comes and all of a sudden he's the number one babysitter and dogsitter.  While he expects to have fun with Molly, she expects him to have fun with her daughters (and no, not in that way...).  He has been clear as to his expectations of life with Molly.  Molly keeps thinking that she can "change" him into a family man.  She has yet to learn that he isn't going to change until he wants to change.  Too many other people have had to learn that their partner(s) don't just magically "change" once married.

I wonder how much if at all Molly or Luis misrepresented how much of a father figure he was going to or expected to be? Like I'm completely missing the father gene, I have no desire to be around children, raise a child, take care of a child, in general just being around children stresses me out, it makes me wonder if this is just all too much for him.

 

3 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Or may Luis can teach David about sex, since I suspect he's had it a lot and is probably pretty good at it.

Really? To each their own but Luis is pretty repulsive to me and the fact that he wanted to shack up with Molly suggests to me he didn't exactly have the pick of the litter. Plus he is a selfish immature child in every other part of his life so I can't imagine him being very attentive to a women's sexual needs, I'm betting he is more stick it in, get off, we're done.

[balisticnikki]

20 minutes ago, John M said:

I wonder how much if at all Molly or Luis misrepresented how much of a father figure he was going to or expected to be? Like I'm completely missing the father gene, I have no desire to be around children, raise a child, take care of a child, in general just being around children stresses me out, it makes me wonder if this is just all too much for him.

I think everyone understands that if you're marrying a woman w/ a young child, you're going to have to be involved somewhat. But when you find out the kid is a busy, mouthy little firecracker, who is picking up on the fact that no one there approves of you, then you're going to get turned off. I don't fully understand what Kensley's issue is but she does have special needs. And Luis thinks Molly's parenting style is too permissive. It's a bad combination all around. I bet if Molly had a little boy (or possibly even a girl) who was not challenged and Molly was raising him in the more old school tradition, it would be working out a lot better.

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I wonder is Aika might be lying about her age for the show and be more like 40.  The doctor might have kept up that deception on camera, but given her the advice a 40 year old would get, rather than a 36 year old.  

No way that woman is 36!

[balisticnikki]

13 hours ago, LindyLake said:

Completely agree. But here’s what I (and my bewildered husband, whom I dragged into watching this, his very first reality television show…heh heh) can’t figure out…just how and where did David the complete loser meet his “best friend” and enabler, Chris? I mean, by all accounts and appearances, Chris looks like a normal, successful man: he has a nice home, and an absolutely gorgeous wife and baby! Why in the WORLD is he continuing to dump money down the bottomless pit of dispair that is David? And why oh why did Chris agree to be responsible for Annie for 10 YEARS? Just. Wow. ?

Not to mention, Chris is tall and fit and good looking. A former athlete. Has a kind of distinguished look. And there's David Poor.... I'm guessing one of David Poor's businesses was providing some kind of service for one of Chris's businesses and David Poor managed to ingratiate himself to Chris.

[MrSmith]

9 hours ago, millennium said:

You may be right.   Many years ago I was friendly with a very smart, very funny girl.  I liked her a lot.   She let it be known that she's a sub which all seemed very abstract and trendy to me until the day came that I spent some time with her and her boyfriend and was forced to watch as he publicly insulted and taunted her, for being stupid, for being fat, ugly, etc.  She was none of these, of course.   She just sat there and took it.   Finally I told the guy off and left.    The next day she came to me angry that I had intervened on her behalf.   She explained she had no problem with the things he said, that she liked it, and I had no right to criticize him.

That was pretty much the end of our friendship.

Would have been the end of my friendship with her, too. They really should have kept that between them and done it around the house where there are no witnesses.

[Mimiray802]

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Mr. AZC was watching the show with me last night (we had recorded it because the Jeff MacDonald special was on).  When Libby came home and Andrei was giving her the cold shoulder, he looked at me and said, "Once they're married, he's going to start hitting her."  It kind of shocked me, because Mr. AZC is the kindest man on earth, and thinks well of everyone until he is shown to be wrong.  I hope HE is wrong on this.  IDK.

Yeah, I just assumed that was a given that Andrei would be beating her after marriage. 

[MrSmith]

27 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

I think everyone understands that if you're marrying a woman w/ a young child, you're going to have to be involved somewhat. But when you find out the kid is a busy, mouthy little firecracker, who is picking up on the fact that no one there approves of you, then you're going to get turned off. I don't fully understand what Kensley's issue is but she does have special needs. And Luis thinks Molly's parenting style is too permissive. It's a bad combination all around. I bet if Molly had a little boy (or possibly even a girl) who was not challenged and Molly was raising him in the more old school tradition, it would be working out a lot better.

It would be working out a lot better if Luis didn't try to usurp Kensley's father's position in her life. It would also be working out a lot better if Luis was at least patient with the child. He doesn't have to like her right away; all he really needs to do is be gentle, patient, and treat her with kindness and respect - that and not try to claim that he's her father now. And before anyone tries to claim that he doesn't know the word "stepfather", I call bullshit. His English is quite good when it suits his purposes and I have no doubt he knows the word "stepfather" and what it means. I mean, come on, Molly has used the word several times on this show alone! You can't try and tell me that she hasn't also used it before this show started.

[balisticnikki]

2 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

It would be working out a lot better if Luis didn't try to usurp Kensley's father's position in her life. It would also be working out a lot better if Luis was at least patient with the child. He doesn't have to like her right away; all he really needs to do is be gentle, patient, and treat her with kindness and respect - that and not try to claim that he's her father now. And before anyone tries to claim that he doesn't know the word "stepfather", I call bullshit. His English is quite good when it suits his purposes and I have no doubt he knows the word "stepfather" and what it means. I mean, come on, Molly has used the word several times on this show alone! You can't try and tell me that she hasn't also used it before this show started.

I don't think Kensley's father is all that involved. Molly was photographed w. him and it looked as tho they had not seen each other in years.

As I said, it's a bad combination all around...and I'm citing the above as reasons I think the situation is especially challenging.