S08.E12: Somewhere Else

[GreatKazu]

42 minutes ago, nikita said:

Thanks for making me feel less "out there." I definitely understand children raised by others due to their parents' careers. But, man, it seems so bizarre to me to focus so far on a child's future (college fund) at the expense of the here and now.

With a mother like Leah, a college fund needs to be planned out now and kept away from her. She splurged through Ali and Grace's college fund a couple of years ago and has never paid Cory back. He was the one who set it up when he and Leah were married. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

With a mother like Leah, a college fund needs to be planned out now and kept away from her. She splurged through Ali and Grace's college fund a couple of years ago and has never paid Cory back. He was the one who set it up when he and Leah were married. 

I did NOT know about this! What did she buy?!!! That's just low....who steals from their own child?!! It wasn't as if they were destitute and she was trying to keep a roof over their heads. 

[GreatKazu]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I did NOT know about this! What did she buy?!!! That's just low....who steals from their own child?!! It wasn't as if they were destitute and she was trying to keep a roof over their heads. 

Pillses. This was during her addiction. She tried to deny it and said she only "moved the CDs" to another bank and according to this linked article she was quoted as saying the money is "not in the bank your looking at".  https://www.inquisitr.com/1702656/leah-messer-vehemently-denies-she-stole-disabled-daughters-trust-fund-money/

Okay, Leah. People are stupid and not looking in the right bank. 

Cory had this matter brought up during his custody battle.  Here is a link about that matter:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/leah-messer-emptied-twins-trust-fund-court-date-76958

[DangerousMinds]

I thought Jeremy disapproved of colleges and degrees and all that fancy stuff?

[heatherchandler]

13 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

Axl probably wore a stars n' stripes bandanna once making Cole a fan, so by default Chelsea is now a fan. 'Murica!

Bandanna?  Oh Axl does you one better!  Remember the infamous shorts?

 

 

[Christina87]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I thought Jeremy disapproved of colleges and degrees and all that fancy stuff?

Colleges are okay for girls, I guess. Since addy won't be lifting a backhoe or working on the pipelines, college might be the best place to meet a guy and get her MRS degree. That is, if she is one of the unlucky ones. Preferably, she'll be engaged to a guy with a hard labor job right out of high school, with her own trailer awaitin'!

[Abmis]

I just rewatched this episode and I'm way behind so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jenelle and Jace were both wearing different outfits in the car when they were having the dumb Marco Polo conversation than they were when Barb met up with them.  MTV has become so sloppy.  

I really hate they way Jenelle talks down to Jace in that fake voice.  It's so obvious by they way she treats him and Kaiser that she has no experience with them as individuals and has little to do with them when the camera is off.  

[GreatKazu]

36 minutes ago, Abmis said:

I just rewatched this episode and I'm way behind so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jenelle and Jace were both wearing different outfits in the car when they were having the dumb Marco Polo conversation than they were when Barb met up with them.  MTV has become so sloppy.  

I really hate they way Jenelle talks down to Jace in that fake voice.  It's so obvious by they way she treats him and Kaiser that she has no experience with them as individuals and has little to do with them when the camera is off.  

I mentioned this elsewhere. That was one of those "later that day" scenes. 

[ReadMeLattice]

6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I thought Jeremy disapproved of colleges and degrees and all that fancy stuff?

They are not for Real Men (TM).

[SPLAIN]

7 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I thought Jeremy disapproved of colleges and degrees and all that fancy stuff?

He did? When was this said by him?

Jeremy likely sees a cycle in the Messer clan regarding education and lack of work ethic. Nothing wrong whatsoever with any woman wanting to be a caretaker of her children and being at home. Miranda is doing it and appears to be doing it very well. The issue I take with Leah is, how she demands the financial caretaker of the family be at home tending to her needs while she does a lackluster job of being a SAHM.

Leah likely felt with the money she and Jeremy were bringing in from MTV, there was no need for him to travel outside of the state for work. Now see, this is where common sense comes into play. Leah doesn't think long-term. She thinks of the present without thinking how her choices affect the future. Sure, Jeremy could be the type of guy, like UBT, who sits at home and doesn't work or find work near home and receive a lower salary because he pulls in a one-time check from MTV and to him. That could be sufficient to some people. For Jeremy, he is thinking long-term. He is thinking about the day MTV is no longer Leah's welfare check. Who will end up paying more for the care of his child when that happens? Not Leah.  Who will hire her? No one. He mentioned how businesses are closing up in the Holler due to the coal mine situation. What low-paying jobs will be available? He is thinking about the fact Leah is likely not saving up for Addie's future. He probably knows his daughter's best chance in the future is to go get an education so she is not having to rely on a guy the way Leah does. He probably wants his daughter know there is more to the world than the Holler and being a mother. If that is her choice, so be it. But that doesn't mean he can't prepare for the possibility that she may want more and in order to give her that option, he wants to hustle - not like Kail - and offer her that chance.

I grew up with parents who ran two businesses. My mother was there more than dad, but us kids knew we didn't have to sacrifice and we had the option of getting an education because of their hard work. 

A question about this Marco Polo scene between Jenelle and Jace. Where is it in the episode? I must have FF through the episode too much.

Did anyone catch UBT telling Jenelle how they don't have to take Barb with them on vacations anymore now that they can travel with Jace? He said it when they were watching the kids playing with the water balloons. When did those two ever take Barb on vacation with them? I know Nathan and Jenelle did, but not those two douchebags.

[StatisticalOutlier]

16 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

@StatisticalOutlier MTV was not around when David choked and pushed his pregnant girlfriend out of his vehicle. MTV is not responsible for him having violated his restraining order, a violation for which he recently was sentenced to 12 months of probation. 

 

15 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

I bet things are 10x worse than we are allowed to see!

They go beyond just being 'bad people'.

In my opinion, anyway.

 

So why did Barb voluntarily agree to send Jace to be with Jenelle and David every two weeks?  That's what's not adding up to me.

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, TeeMo said:

She told the producer that she settled to save Jenelle the trauma of a trial where she would be dragged through the mud and I think that is the truth. Jenelle is a hideous sociopath but she is still Barb's  daughter and I think Barb holds out hope that someday they will get along again. 

I agree. Do I wish Barb would just shake the dust off her shoes, be done with Jenelle for good, and let the court hear every damn thing that could prevent Jace from having to go over there? Yes. But I find it hard to judge someone that has been put in this horrible position. Unlike Jenelle, Barb is not a sociopath. I think she's a bit misguided at times, but she loves her daughter. It must really suck. 

[lezlers]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:25 PM, LotusFlower said:

ot it.  So in other words, Janelle has a rule to follow.  She has to inform Barb, in writing, of her vacation plans with Jace.  Not exactly a huge win, like she was portraying.  I get it that before the settlement, Barb was able to veto anything she wanted, but it seems to me that now everything is more structured and more formalized, which is probably better for everyone.  I love how Barb said that Janelle can't be late in dropping off Jace or else she'll be in contempt of court, cuz rules work both ways, dude.

Barb watching the clock and saying over and over again that Jenelle would be in contempt of court if she was late rubbed me the wrong way.  It just came across as being REALLY petty.  I mean, Jenelle is a horrible person and everything, but SOMEONE has to be the bigger person for Jace, you know?  Barb just came across as almost WANTING Jenelle to be late, just so she could run to her lawyer to hold her in contempt.  She got some serious side eye from me for that one.

Also, what was up with replaying Rhiiiiiiines driving scene?  Is there really that little for Chelsea to film that she has to talk about and replay a scene from a different show for her 5 minute segment?  It was very strange. 

I hate Kailyn.  That is all.

Edited September 23, 2017 by lezlers

[lezlers]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 4:49 AM, Sprockets said:

And in the car she told the boys "I always take you to school with me on Wednesdays."  Say what?  

Back to the car.  Under what circumstances is it even remotely okay to:

1.  Make a phone call while driving.

2. Make a phone call while driving without a seatbelt.

3.  Make a phone call while driving without a seatbelt with no hands on the steering wheel.

4.  All of the above with all three kids in the car.  

Why dont the producers stop this behavior?  Isn't the purpose of this show to encourage responsible behavior?  The producers are allowing children to be endangered.  

Jace has been repeatedly harmed on so many levels.  He already knows to tell people what they want to hear.  It's the only way he can survive this tug of war game Jenelle and Barbara play with him.  

I will never understand people who FACE TIME while DRIVING.  Are you fucking kidding me?  Like being on the phone while driving isn't distracting enough, now you have to LOOK at the person on the phone as well?  That needs to be straight up illegal.

[GreatKazu]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I agree. Do I wish Barb would just shake the dust off her shoes, be done with Jenelle for good, and let the court hear every damn thing that could prevent Jace from having to go over there? Yes. But I find it hard to judge someone that has been put in this horrible position. Unlike Jenelle, Barb is not a sociopath. I think she's a bit misguided at times, but she loves her daughter. It must really suck. 

I agree. With the mental issues that Jenelle clearly has, Barb may hold out hope, as most people do in these situations where a loved one is clearly not in control of their mental issues. 

14 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

 

So why did Barb voluntarily agree to send Jace to be with Jenelle and David every two weeks?  That's what's not adding up to me.

I was only offering the reasons why we, the viewers, are fearful of David. You mentioned MTV has wonky editing, which I agree, no argument there. I was only pointing out that the viewers have a fear of David because of those two incidents that occurred before MTV came along. 

[LotusFlower]

5 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Barb watching the clock and saying over and over again that Jenelle would be in contempt of court if she was late rubbed me the wrong way.  It just came across as being REALLY petty.  I mean, Jenelle is a horrible person and everything, but SOMEONE has to be the bigger person for Jace, you know?  Barb just came across as almost WANTING Jenelle to be late, just so she could run to her lawyer to hold her in contempt.  She got some serious side eye from me for that one.

I would argue that Barb has been the bigger person concerning Jace since day one.  She has put up with so much b.s. from Janelle and has sacrificed so much, so I don't blame her for anything.  That doesn't mean she's perfect, and yes, she can sometimes be spiteful, but if I walked a mile in her shoes, I'm sure I'd be watching the clock and studying the court order, too.  

[lovesnark]

16 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

 

So why did Barb voluntarily agree to send Jace to be with Jenelle and David every two weeks?  That's what's not adding up to me.

Because there was really no chance the court would not allow any visitation. Barb listened to her lawyer and agreed to what would have most likely been the outcome if they'd gone to trial. I wish they would have gone to trial, though. After hearing all the witnesses Barb had, supervised visitation may have been ordered.

[mittsigirl]

7 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

 

So why did Barb voluntarily agree to send Jace to be with Jenelle and David every two weeks?  That's what's not adding up to me.

Look, I have not walked in Barb's shoes, but I am a mom and grandma like she is. It must be so hard to see all of these kids living separately from each other, they are siblings and step-siblings. Now that Jace is older, he is more capable of speaking up to Barb if these visits start getting worse than they have been up to now. As a mom, you WANT to believe that your kid will grow up, it must be so hard for Barb to have such an immature daughter who has birthed all of these kids, and has no idea how to mother them properly. If it was me, it would be so heartbreaking to give up on all hope. I bet that Jenelle will be subject to regular drug tests, and her prince charming as well. Now that Barb has been to court, things have been legally documented, so maybe Barb is just playing this by ear, watching what is going to happen before cutting all ties from Jenelle with Jace. We don't know everything that has gone on, but I have to give Barb a chance of knowing what she is doing, for the best interest of Jace. If my daughter was Jenelle, and both she and her newborn baby tested positive for a drug, I would for sure be totally pissed of at her, but I don't know what I would do after that. Maybe Barb is giving her one more chance. But there is no way that Barb would be able to take on yet another grandchild to raise. There is the Court, Therapists and Social Services now all involved. And we do not know everything, nor should we. I am not going to go off and criticize Barb, without knowing the entire story. Both Jenell and David are scary people, that is what we do know just from MTV filming them. Lets give these visitations a little time. If things get worse for Jace, no way is any Judge going to allow Jenelle visitation. Jace is old enough to talk to the Judge, he is not 2 years old anymore, he has a strong voice in the matter. And I want to have faith in Barb, that she knows what she is doing. That's how I feel about it.

[Mkay]

22 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I would argue that Barb has been the bigger person concerning Jace since day one.  She has put up with so much b.s. from Janelle and has sacrificed so much, so I don't blame her for anything.  That doesn't mean she's perfect, and yes, she can sometimes be spiteful, but if I walked a mile in her shoes, I'm sure I'd be watching the clock and studying the court order, too.  

Jenelle and David where having the same "court order" discussion hoping Barbara would mess up when they were outside watching the kids play. 

[lezlers]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 9:18 AM, teapot said:

agreed!  It was so insightful of Leah to point that out to him, that it was too much of a "high and low" thing.  she pleasantly surprised me!

I was impressed when she said that as well.  It makes sense, since she's the one who has to ultimately deal with the fall out after the visits where daddy DOESN'T magically pop up.  Also?  If you see your kid seldom enough where it's a big fucking deal whenever you're actually there?  Unless you're in the military, you're doing the parenting thing wrong.

45 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I would argue that Barb has been the bigger person concerning Jace since day one.  She has put up with so much b.s. from Janelle and has sacrificed so much, so I don't blame her for anything.  That doesn't mean she's perfect, and yes, she can sometimes be spiteful, but if I walked a mile in her shoes, I'm sure I'd be watching the clock and studying the court order, too.  

Ehhhhhh the one who ultimately suffers from that behavior is Jace, though.  That's my point.  Those two argue enough in front of him, there's no need to seek out more things to argue about in front of him.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

59 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I was only pointing out that the viewers have a fear of David because of those two incidents that occurred before MTV came along. 

37 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

We don't know everything that has gone on, but I have to give Barb a chance of knowing what she is doing, for the best interest of Jace.

And that's my point.  The person who presumably knows more than anybody, and no doubt more than any of us, about this situation agreed to allow Jace to be around David (and Jenelle) every other weekend, and I have to assume she wouldn't have done that if she believed Jace would be in danger.  So what is Barb seeing that we're not, or what are we seeing that Barb is not?

[MissMel]

It might be because Jenelle and David were being investigated from March to May-ish.  Department of Social Services was there weekly and Jenelle and UBT were subjected to random drug tests.  The DSS made a plan for them and apparently they eventually managed to stick to it because they still have Ensley.  This was right before Barb and Jenelle went to court.  The attorney probably told Barb it was best for now, due to the DSS case findings.  Settle for permanent custody and see how things unfold with Kaiser and Ensley, Jenelle and David.  Barb is probably keeping track of everything and writing it all down for the future.  

[mittsigirl]

21 minutes ago, MissMel said:

It might be because Jenelle and David were being investigated from March to May-ish.  Department of Social Services was there weekly and Jenelle and UBT were subjected to random drug tests.  The DSS made a plan for them and apparently they eventually managed to stick to it because they still have Ensley.  This was right before Barb and Jenelle went to court.  The attorney probably told Barb it was best for now, due to the DSS case findings.  Settle for permanent custody and see how things unfold with Kaiser and Ensley, Jenelle and David.  Barb is probably keeping track of everything and writing it all down for the future.  

Thanks for summing it up in less than half the words that I used :)

[Christina87]

I kind of wish jenelle had had to go through the court, and hear all those witnesses. Barb had a weakness; she loves jenelle. Sociopaths will exploit any weakness, and not even appreciate love at all. That's why a lot of therapists don't recommend therapy for sociopaths; they can't be changed, and knowing more about how normal people feel will just help them exploit them!

i think barb desperately wants to believe that all these loser boyfriends are the problem, and jenelle has bad taste in men, but nothing worse than that. It must be hard to see all three kids have huge problems, and I bet barb beats herself up about it. She shouldn't, though! I fully believe the absent father and his genes have more to do with it. He sounds like a sociopath, being a domestic abuser and saying Jenelle can look him up in the phone book. If anything, barb's failures as a parent likely come from working too much, which she had to do, far from being a voluntary workaholic. She also has a short fuse, but isn't any parent allowed to have one fault? She seems to genuinely love and care for jace. She spends time with him, looks after his educational needs, takes him to a therapist, is on top of his medical concerns, makes a big deal out of special times for him, and gives him broadening experiences, like France. It would be hard to do all this if she had to work as much as she most likely did when her kids were younger. Plus, even the best parent can wind up with difficult kids. It must have been incredibly frustrating to keep up with three who were constantly defiant! As a teacher, let me tell you that there is a huge difference between a respectful and disrespectful class. Of course teachers need to be reflective and correct whatever they did to make the situation worse, but sometimes you just start at such a huge disadvantage that it's almost impossible for the class to be a good experience.

I didn't like barb's comment about being late either, but it's hard to be the bigger person allllllll the time. People say things to others because they're frustrated sometime, and may not 100% mean them. I put this in the same category as Chelsea saying, "eeeeew adam's girlfriend...is wearing a headband! And a ponytail!" Maybe pointing towards bitchy qualities, but totally understandable under the circumstances and not hurting anybody. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Christina87

[FairyDusted]

Barb is EVERYTHING for wearing her Walmart clothes and letting Jace have a good school day. That right there really got me. PLUS she has 2 younger boys!

[LotusFlower]

6 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

Barb is EVERYTHING for wearing her Walmart clothes and letting Jace have a good school day. That right there really got me. PLUS she has 2 younger boys!

That got me too.  That showed a lot of love and consideration.

2 hours ago, lezlers said:

Ehhhhh the one who ultimately suffers from that behavior is Jace, though.  That's my point.  Those two argue enough in front of him, there's no need to seek out more things to argue about in front of him.  

Barb made that comment to the producer when she was waiting for Jace and Janelle, so it wasn't said in front of him.  Plus, I think it's smart to keep a record of Janelle's parental screw-ups - all in the name of Jace's best long-term interests.

[GreatKazu]

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

I will never understand people who FACE TIME while DRIVING.  Are you fucking kidding me?  Like being on the phone while driving isn't distracting enough, now you have to LOOK at the person on the phone as well?  That needs to be straight up illegal.

It is illegal. It is why she was cited at least on one occasion already by the police. The documents were posted on this board a while back. She has been cited for numerous and several driving offenses including one for DRIVING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. 

Quote

Unless you're in the military, you're doing the parenting thing wrong.

It is not such a black or white issue where if one goes out of town for work, you are not a proper parent. There is a lot of gray area in between.

My spouse wasn't in the military, but he had a career in the construction and the roofing industry long ago. Many jobs were government jobs. It meant traveling to various bases and such. He worked out town a lot. I didn't mind because I enjoyed the breaks and I appreciated him when he was around. It was a job I knew he had when I met him. I chose to marry him and have children with him under those conditions. Many people have jobs that require them to be away from family without them being in the military. 

I just wonder how it would be if it was Leah with the career and she was being told to not work as much, spend more time with her child, and to reconsider finding a job in the immediate area of where that child lives where the unemployment rate is high, how that would be viewed. As it is, we are watching Kail who just graduated from college (supposedly) and we are giving her the side-eye because she chose to have a trap baby instead of going forward with finding a job. There were discussions where we thought she would be leaving the boys with family, but it was okay because she was going to work. I'd commend her if she were to acquire a job, even if it meant she had to possibly go out of town for that job. 

Addie will appreciate her dad for the sacrifices he made for her. He has no idea if one day he may lose his job or the work is no longer there. In the meantime, if he can make great money, go for it. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by GreatKazu

[FairyDusted]

I married young and had a family while my husband chased the money to support our home. I was in most aspects a single parent. I was just thinking today, he retired in July and finally moved into our house, across the country that I had been living in for 3 years. We had to maintain 2 households to reach our goals and that part sucked but I knew the job when I took it. And really, tradionally all the women in my family have been SAHM so I don't even give it a thought. I also get it's not for everyone. That whole living alone thing the past few years though was rough.

[TimeToCancelTM]

6 hours ago, lezlers said:

Barb watching the clock and saying over and over again that Jenelle would be in contempt of court if she was late rubbed me the wrong way.  It just came across as being REALLY petty.  I mean, Jenelle is a horrible person and everything, but SOMEONE has to be the bigger person for Jace, you know?  Barb just came across as almost WANTING Jenelle to be late, just so she could run to her lawyer to hold her in contempt.  She got some serious side eye from me for that one.

Also, what was up with replaying Rhiiiiiiines driving scene?  Is there really that little for Chelsea to film that she has to talk about and replay a scene from a different show for her 5 minute segment?  It was very strange. 

I hate Kailyn.  That is all.

Your words a thousand times!!!! That scene with barb was really, really petty. Not only was she hoping she was late, but then she hassled jace to try to admit/say he didnt have a good time at jenelles. Even the poor kid looked at her like..."lay off lady". 

On the chelsea thing, mtv and her are grasping at straws with the ryan storyline.

[Miss Chevious]

7 hours ago, MissMel said:

It might be because Jenelle and David were being investigated from March to May-ish.  Department of Social Services was there weekly and Jenelle and UBT were subjected to random drug tests.  The DSS made a plan for them and apparently they eventually managed to stick to it because they still have Ensley.  This was right before Barb and Jenelle went to court.  The attorney probably told Barb it was best for now, due to the DSS case findings.  Settle for permanent custody and see how things unfold with Kaiser and Ensley, Jenelle and David.  Barb is probably keeping track of everything and writing it all down for the future.  

According to the Ashley, both Jenelle and UBT tested dirty one other time during that time period. When DSS did their weekly visits, they asked for additional drug testing but both of them refused to cooperate. Why DSS didn't follow up with their refusal to cooperate is anyone's guess. Maybe it was the MMC's they got in LA. 

No mistake about it, they are both high on weed most of the time. And maybe more with UBT. They're both shady as hell.

[salvame]

On 9/21/2017 at 1:38 PM, Tillshee said:

Jace is in survival mode around Jenelle.  Of course, having no self awareness, she doesn't see it that way. 

Jace is in survival mode no matter WHERE he is. He is caught up between two households that are so busy looking for their own validation, neither considers what they are doing to him. So irked that Jenelle couldn't even have him in the car for one minute before seeking validation. From a 7 yr old. No wonder he barely reacts to any events or celebrations. He is always stuck in the middle between Barb and Jenelle/UBT, that I think he just shuts himself down emotionally to avoid any friction, which he probably thinks he is the cause of. 

"I tried to see you, but Mamae wouldn't let me" and all the other things she said, or no/yes questions fired at him. I absolutely have no use for adults who do nothing but badmouth the other custodial figures in a child's life.  It doesn't make you a better person when you point out daddy's or grandma's flaws, or what you perceive as flaws. If you are really concerned about something in your child's life, you sit and talk with them one on one and do it in a way that draws them out, not by grilling them with things they can answer with a yes or no. Neither of Jace's guardians care about what he is really feeling - they are too busy projecting what they feel about the other guardian.  My heart breaks for him, as he is going to be such a broken young man who is unable to be in touch with his feelings. 

Oh yeah, almost forgot "I've decided I need some one-on-one time with Jace, so we're taking him to St Thomas. " Last time I checked, including David and his daughter is not one-on-one time. Why can't Jennelle take him someplace appropriate for a 7 yr old by herself, where she can make it all about him, instead of about everyone else?

And, yes, Chelsea, I'm talking about you, too. Instead of questioning Aubree about what happens when she's at grandma's why not have the conversation with Adumb's parents directly? 

[ChocolateAddict]

I guess it just goes to show how we can all see things differently. 

How many times have we seen Jenelle and her soulmate of the month change the time and place for drop offs and expect Barb to be ok with it?  There have been countless times when Jenelle (egged on by Nathan or UBT) has called up Barb to say that actually, it would be more convenient if the drop off was earlier/later/closer to them and assumed that Barb would be able to rearrange all her plans to suit their schedule.  

I don't see it as petty at all.  I see it as Barb being relieved that Jenelle is actually being held to account about when Jace has to be at the drop off place.  Jenelle can't just ring up and demand that Barb drive further or wait longer because Jenelle is "so tired, dude".  Unlike normal, non-sociopathic people, Jenelle and her soulmates have never had a problem with making life more difficult for Barb but now there is finally an order that they have to be on time. 

I think it came out badly but Barb was making the point that there will be an actual penalty for Jenelle being late and she can't just screw around about drop offs any more. At sixty-something, she was probably tired of waiting around in the car for her unemployed daughter to take time out of her social media posting and fighting to drop Jace off.  Frankly, if I was Barb I would be making the same point, Jenelle has to stick the rules to keep visitation with Jace and being on time is part of that.

[GreatKazu]

16 minutes ago, ChocolateAddict said:

I guess it just goes to show how we can all see things differently. 

How many times have we seen Jenelle and her soulmate of the month change the time and place for drop offs and expect Barb to be ok with it?  There have been countless times when Jenelle (egged on by Nathan or UBT) has called up Barb to say that actually, it would be more convenient if the drop off was earlier/later/closer to them and assumed that Barb would be able to rearrange all her plans to suit their schedule.  

I don't see it as petty at all.  I see it as Barb being relieved that Jenelle is actually being held to account about when Jace has to be at the drop off place.  Jenelle can't just ring up and demand that Barb drive further or wait longer because Jenelle is "so tired, dude".  Unlike normal, non-sociopathic people, Jenelle and her soulmates have never had a problem with making life more difficult for Barb but now there is finally an order that they have to be on time. 

I think it came out badly but Barb was making the point that there will be an actual penalty for Jenelle being late and she can't just screw around about drop offs any more. At sixty-something, she was probably tired of waiting around in the car for her unemployed daughter to take time out of her social media posting and fighting to drop Jace off.  Frankly, if I was Barb I would be making the same point, Jenelle has to stick the rules to keep visitation with Jace and being on time is part of that.

Thank you! You are precisely correct as to why Barb is holding Jenelle accountable.

All the previous times Jenelle and her dick of the month were constantly dicking around with her mother. Barb, no doubt, made it a point to bring that up during the custody battle. I fully believe Barb has kept notes and noted each and every time Jenelle flaked out on her or made it complicated during the drop-offs. I have been wondering if scenes from MTV were part of this custody issue. If so, surely all of those times Jenelle made life difficult for Barb during those drop-offs were included as proof. We also have that lovely time when Jenelle took off with Jace from the tv studio in Los Angeles. 

Jenelle and company can kick rocks for all those times they not only flaked out on Barb, they also were dicking Jace around and that is not cool whatsoever. I have no problem with Barb holding Jenelle accountable since Jenelle is now being held to a higher authority and this time it will cost her. 

[butterbody]

I agree and I think Barb was hoping Jenelle would be late because maybe it would give her more leverage to put an end to those visitations completely. 

But I still don't understand it being acceptable that she refused a drug test. Marijuana is federally illegal so even though it is easy to get a card in Cali, it is very much a felony to take it across state lines.

[Rebecca]

Now we have Briana's friend coddling her by talking to Luis about stuff that is absolutely none of her business and not at all her place. Because there just aren't enough women doing that for Briana already. Wtf? Everyone in her life knows she's utterly incompetent and they all enable it. I  can't even believe it but I'm siding more and more with Luis. He can miss me with how he's stressed and that "I put so much pressure on myself"... bitch, please.

I feel terrible for Addy, she just isn't old enough to even understand why Ali and Gracie get to see their dad "all the time" and she doesn't get to see hers that often. Even if she were older, it would still be hard. I'm glad Leah told Jeremy that every visit he has with Addy shouldn't be a surprise big thing. I wonder who told her that? They are definitely right.

Kailyn is such a douche. Y'all know why so I won't repeat. I'm glad she graduated, though.

Because Adam is her father, Chelsea.

And last and definitely least:

I can't stand even looking at Jenelle.

[ReadMeLattice]

9 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Now we have Briana's friend coddling her by talking to Luis about stuff that is absolutely none of her business and not at all her place. Because there just aren't enough women doing that for Briana already. Wtf? Everyone in her life knows she's utterly incompetent and they all enable it. 

It reminds me of Adam's friends in scenes where they would be bitching about Chelsea and Taylor. Like, you hang out with him every day while he's deadbeating around town, right? You really think they have no real complaints to make...? 

Where does one get these kinds of friends?

[ReadMeLattice]

To be fair, my husband was a lawyer before he started teaching, and his stance was that public defense attorneys often get the short end of the stick as they are often underpaid for the quality work they do and aren't given enough time to research a case. I don't think the poster meant it as an insult on the attorneys' qualifications (I personally have a great deal of respect for public defenders), just that people with fewer resources generally have to work with folks who don't have ample time to commit only to them, and other folks have the luxury to pay for more dedicated time. But I might be putting words in the poster's mouth, so YMMV. 

Anyway, as @lezlers said, and others have said-- Jenelle is definitely not considered dangerous enough to not warrant *any* visitation. You can't start taking away kids based on mothers' ingestion of weed or alcohol while pregnant...half the kids in the country would be taken away. She hasn't been arrested in a while-- the fathers of her kids have both (not even counting Andrew as a dad) been arrested more recently, so she would actually potentially be considered the "safer" parent compared to them, and over Barb she has the biological advantage, which counts for a great deal. Plus, court can sometimes be a wild card. There is always a chance it won't go your way. I'm sure Barb was nervous as hell no matter how strong her case was. 

Also, this is jmo, but I assume Barb really didn't want to put Jenelle through more embarrassment and hell than necessary. As she said, she only wanted mediation. Barb might not be pure of heart and perfect and she can be volatile, but she didn't want to hurt Jenelle if she didn't have to. Trotting out all of Jenelle's flaws and parading them around is not something I assume she, at heart, really wanted to do. That's honestly what I took from it...that at the end of the day she really didn't want to be in court with her daughter. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Lm2162

[Jeanne222]

Barbara raised her and Janelle became Barb.  Plain and simple.  They deserve each other.  Poor Jace..caught in the middle always and now I notice he tries to say whatever makes each of them happy.  I hate David, I like David.  Sigh.

Doesn't Barb have two other kids in the same situation?  I thought I read that somewhere. 

Chelsea is done.  She isn't giving MTV what they want so all they do is talk about Adam.  Brittany is her replacement.

Kailyn is just all kinds of nasty.  I can't believe she lets all of this be shown on tv.  Uck.

Leah surely made a big deal out of her 'bad date'.  I hope that was just an actor and not a real human being.  How nasty to trash him on tv like she's something special.

Line up poor choices.  Brittany will be hitting the dance floor in a couple of months.  She'll be looking for one of you.  BTW speaking of her I thought this baby was going to be put up for adoption.  What happened to that plan?  Probably MTV and the money and drama it could bring to the family.

[GreatKazu]

27 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Barbara raised her and Janelle became Barb.  Plain and simple.  They deserve each other.  Poor Jace..caught in the middle always and now I notice he tries to say whatever makes each of them happy.  I hate David, I like David.  Sigh.

Doesn't Barb have two other kids in the same situation?  I thought I read that somewhere. 

 

I will have to kindly disagree, again, at this assertion. Jenelle is certainly not Barb. If she were Barb, she would be working her ass at a full-time job with benefits and would have been there for Jace from day one instead of having several guys in her bed for 7 years. Barb certainly doesn't deserve anything Jenelle throws her way. Barb is Jenelle's mother, not a dick of the month. 

To me, it is a slap in the face to compare Jenelle to Barb in any way. As @DangerousMinds once posted, Jenelle is a sociopath. Barb is not. Jenelle has a record five miles long. Jenelle recently had CPS investigate her. Jenelle is a selfish, entitled, and perpetual victim of her own doing. Jenelle has not made an inch in life to better herself as a person. She has jumped into relationships faster than Kim Kardashian. She has three kids with three different guys. Barb is nothing like Jenelle in that respect. Barb has been a consistent parent to all her children and now, to her three grandchildren and she did it without having to have a guy between her legs telling her what a shitty daughter she has. Barb has continued to work at a job for all these years. A job that Jenelle and her douchebag boyfriends have constantly thrown at her face as if she should be ashamed of her job. Barb has worked tirelessly to ensure Jace is cared for while his bio mother couldn't even bother to attend school functions or meetings.  

Yes, Barb has two other adult children in similar situations. One of them is mentally challenged to the point that he can't function like a normal adult. His mental issues are also compounded by drug use. Not sure what having three mentally ill children has to do with Barb. She didn't make those children on her own. She didn't have an immaculate conception for each of those pregnancies. Genetics can be funny sometimes in that it doesn't matter what kind of parent you are, you can give birth to children who have mental issues. There was domestic violence in Barb's marriage. There was physical, verbal, and mental abuse going on in that family. 

 

Quote

If I were in Barb's position and there was any chance in hell I thought Jenelle MIGHT be able to get at the very least joint custody, I'd have jumped at the agreement as well.  Barb has full custody.  Jenelle simply has visitation.  Barb won.  

This. 

I had pointed that there was a huge possibility Barb was told there was no way Jenelle was going to be denied visitation. It is why in the long run, it was good that Jace had some visitations with Jenelle because then it wouldn't be this young boy having to suddenly be with a person he has never spent time with. So, all the brouhaha that Barb should have never let Jenelle near Jace in these 7 years, is questionable. As dysfunctional and toxic as Jenelle is, there was nothing that warrants a court to keep her from having some sort of visitation with Jace. Anyone who has worked in the system, the courts, CPS, family law, etc., knows that it takes so much more than dysfunction to remove a child from any environment. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Bblack3]

Why do I get the feeling that Devion easily signed off on those child support papers because TM money was coming soon and he knew he'd be on the hook for it anyway? And both he and Luis showing up all the time just screams to me "if you don't show up you don't get paid"? So easy way for both of them to pay some child support? Also, I'd love to know how Brittany approached TM to pitch her story to get back on. How was she able to avoid pregnancy for the last several years?

[GreatKazu]

6 minutes ago, Bblack3 said:

Why do I get the feeling that Devion easily signed off on those child support papers because TM money was coming soon and he knew he'd be on the hook for it anyway? And both he and Luis showing up all the time just screams to me "if you don't show up you don't get paid"? So easy way for both of them to pay some child support? Also, I'd love to know how Brittany approached TM to pitch her story to get back on. How was she able to avoid pregnancy for the last several years?

MTV check doesn't mean squat. If that were true, Adumb wouldn't be in arrears on his child support issue and he has pulled in way more money than those two guys. They get paid once a year from MTV. There is no garnishment on those checks for child support or for taxes. That is why Maci, Amber, Kail, Jenelle, and Adumb have owed money on child support and/or taxes. 

[MissMel]

I wondered if Briana got more if she convinced them to film with her.  As far as Devoin signing?  I think Bri wanted to file before Mtv money comes in for her.  

[lezlers]

23 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

That got me too.  That showed a lot of love and consideration.

Barb made that comment to the producer when she was waiting for Jace and Janelle, so it wasn't said in front of him.  Plus, I think it's smart to keep a record of Janelle's parental screw-ups - all in the name of Jace's best long-term interests.

oh, I have no issue with her keeping track, that's important and she should.  What I took issue with was her tone, like she was HOPING Jenelle would be late. And you KNOW she'd say something to her in front of Jace if Jenelle WAS late.  

[lezlers]

16 hours ago, butterbody said:

I agree and I think Barb was hoping Jenelle would be late because maybe it would give her more leverage to put an end to those visitations completely. 

But I still don't understand it being acceptable that she refused a drug test. Marijuana is federally illegal so even though it is easy to get a card in Cali, it is very much a felony to take it across state lines.

A refused test is considered a failed test when it comes to mandatory drug testing.  Maybe she was allowed one dirty test?  Who knows.  And I'm not sure what transporting marijuana has to do with anything?  Many states have already legalized marijuana (ironically it's the pharmaceutical industry who are largely responsible for it still being federally illegal, they'd much rather see the booming opioid epidemic than have people be able to legally use a non addictive substance, apparently), so if they're residing in a state where it's legal, unless using marijuana is specifically forbidden by CPS as part of their management plan, it wouldn't be an issue. Federal law has nothing to do with it (unless she's arrested for transporting it across state lines.)  I believe it's a moot point anyway, since I'm fairly sure marijuana is still illegal in North Carolina.

[GreatKazu]

14 minutes ago, lezlers said:

oh, I have no issue with her keeping track, that's important and she should.  What I took issue with was her tone, like she was HOPING Jenelle would be late. And you KNOW she'd say something to her in front of Jace if Jenelle WAS late.  

Doubt it. Jenelle and Barb are now BOTH on court order. Part of it is to not engage in bad-mouthing the other in front of Jace. When Jenelle is late, Barb will note it and call her attorney.

What Barb says to another adult away from Jace, is her choice and she is free to say what she is thinking. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

5 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Doubt it. Jenelle and Barb are now BOTH on court order. Part of it is to not engage in bad-mouthing the other in front of Jace. When Jenelle is late, Barb will note it and call her attorney.

What Barb says to another adult away from Jace, is her choice and she is free to say what she is thinking. 

Heh.  Look, Barb is light years better than Jenelle but it will be a cold day in hell when both of those women stop bad mouthing the other in front of Jace.  I mean, one of the first things Jenelle said to Jace was "I wanted to see you but Meme wouldn't let me."  Barb is a hard worker and there is no doubt she's the best parent for Jace and she loves him, but she's got just as loose of a tongue as Jenelle.  I guarantee she talks smack about Jenelle and David in front of Jace, order or no order.

[GreatKazu]

7 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Heh.  Look, Barb is light years better than Jenelle but it will be a cold day in hell when both of those women stop bad mouthing the other in front of Jace.  I mean, one of the first things Jenelle said to Jace was "I wanted to see you but Meme wouldn't let me."  Barb is a hard worker and there is no doubt she's the best parent for Jace and she loves him, but she's got just as loose of a tongue as Jenelle.  I guarantee she talks smack about Jenelle and David in front of Jace, order or no order.

Possibly, not inferring that won't happen or hasn't happened. Jenelle saying her mother wouldn't let her see Jace, to me, is not bad-mouthing as much as it was a fact. I don't think she should have said anything, frankly, but it was hardly anything that would warrant going to court.  Saying in front of Jace or to his face, "My mom is a fucking bitch!" does cross the line, but unless Jace speaks up about her saying such a thing, who will ever know? 

I think at this stage, these two are going to keep it clean for the cameras. It also appears David is being kept from being at the drop-offs which is a major plus. Barb and Jenelle are now court-ordered to follow the orders and if that order helps both of them to remain calm and cordial, as was shown on the recent episode, it is a start. Hopefully, it will continue to be a pattern that will become the norm for Barb, at least. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Possibly, not inferring that won't happen or hasn't happened. Jenelle saying her mother wouldn't let her see Jace, to me, is not bad-mouthing as much as it was a fact. I don't think she should have said anything, frankly, but it was hardly anything that would warrant going to court.  Saying in front of Jace or to his face, "My mom is a fucking bitch!" does cross the line, but unless Jace speaks up about her saying such a thing, who will ever know? 

I think at this stage, these two are going to keep it clean for the cameras. It also appears David is being kept from being at the drop-offs which is a major plus. Barb and Jenelle are now court-ordered to follow the orders and if that order helps both of them to remain calm and cordial, as was shown on the recent episode, it is a start. Hopefully, it will continue to be a pattern that will become the norm for Barb, at least. 

Lord I hope so.  I suspect, however, that they will quickly become THOSE people who march into court whenever the other one looks at them funny.  I know you know the type.  ;)  

[GreatKazu]

1 minute ago, lezlers said:

Lord I hope so.  I suspect, however, that they will quickly become THOSE people who march into court whenever the other one looks at them funny.  I know you know the type.  ;)  

Definitely. I know you have worked with that type, too. It will be interesting to see who runs to court first. I think we need a bet. lol 

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I had pointed that there was a huge possibility Barb was told there was no way Jenelle was going to be denied visitation.

That's the discrepancy I'm wrestling with.  Many of us posting here appear to believe that Jace is in grave danger whenever he's around David and/or Jenelle.  But apparently the actual parties involved, and probably even a judge, see it otherwise.  So what are we seeing that they don't?