S08.E12: Somewhere Else

[guilfoyleatpp]

49 minutes ago, lezlers said:

And I'm not sure what transporting marijuana has to do with anything?  Many states have already legalized marijuana (ironically it's the pharmaceutical industry who are largely responsible for it still being federally illegal, they'd much rather see the booming opioid epidemic than have people be able to legally use a non addictive substance, apparently), so if they're residing in a state where it's legal, unless using marijuana is specifically forbidden by CPS as part of their management plan, it wouldn't be an issue. Federal law has nothing to do with it (unless she's arrested for transporting it across state lines.)  I believe it's a moot point anyway, since I'm fairly sure marijuana is still illegal in North Carolina.

Agree with the transporting. Having marijuana in your system is not evidence of transporting across state lines since it stays in the system for 28 days. I don't know what the closest state to NC that has legalized marijuana, but I'm gonna bet it's driving distance. My point is, she wouldn't have to be transporting MJ to have it in her system. Technically.

Of course she is illegally buying and smoking, but where's the evidence there?

[Jeanne222]

I surely do not think Barbara is anything to crow about.  To me she has bad mother written all over her.  She did have a live in boyfriend until he could not take it anymore and left.  I think she works so she can say look at me.  In the early years she had to work but now with MTV sending in a big check she's free to come and go as she pleases.  She plays to the camera.  She's mean and nasty and I would hate to have to call her Mother.

While in her care...who watches Jace while she works? 

[crazychicken]

Jace is in school before that childcare because even though Janelle was home she didn't want to get her arse out of bed to care for him.

 

One long term boyfriend v a never ending round of abusers, hmm not a hard choice I think.

 

Barb continuing to work says the opposite to me it shows me how committed she is to providing, she could have given up work but she knows the money will end. Don't forget even though Janelle receives a big MTV paycheck she did not pay any child support and I doubt she gets any for the other boys in her care. How she has the energy to work, care for her grandchildren and do activities amazes me, I could not do it all again and mine are still teenagers at home.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

While in her care...who watches Jace while she works? 

He is in school full-time. I imagine if needed, she may have him in afterschool care, like many working parents do.  Who watches Jenelle's kids while she works? Oh, never mind. Jenelle doesn't work. But she does have her kids in daycare all damn day. 

Who made Jace's costume recently for his school project? Not Jenelle. 

 

Quote

I think she works so she can say look at me. 

Yes, that is exactly why Barb works. She works because she wants people to look at her. Forget the fact she has three grandchildren to support, a home, a car, and all the expenses that come with owning a home, medical costs, out-of-pocket costs, and being a senior citizen. 

Barb worked for YEARS prior to MTV ever coming into the picture. This is a woman who has established herself in her job so she could support herself and her family. The one boyfriend she had in her life cheated on her and with that, she booted him out. She ain't got time for that drama. She can do it on her own and didn't find the need to find a replacement guy for her bed, like her daughter does every time she breaks off her relationship. Big deal. Plenty of adults have live-in boyfriends and are in committed relationships. Not many have a revolving door of dicks. Barb's relationship fizzled, as many relationships do. She maintained the single life and is focused on her grandchildren. 

Barb can come and go as she pleases? It would be foolish for Barb to quit her job just because she has a once-a-year payment from MTV. That sounds irresponsible and pretty stupid for someone to give up a sure thing (including retirement, pension, and any other benefits) for a check that is not guaranteed. Not to mention, she is not pulling in the same amount as the main cast members. TM won't be around forever. Unlike the nitwits on this show (most, not all), who use TM money like it is welfare check with no regards for how they are going to survive when the show is over, Barb will always have job security until she retires. 

One thing that wasn't mentioned was, where is Jenelle's child support to Barb for the seven years she took care of Jace? Females are not immune from being dead-beat parents. 

Barb doesn't get help from the other parent in the equation. He is a dead-beat like the daughter he helped to create. 

 

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

That's the discrepancy I'm wrestling with.  Many of us posting here appear to believe that Jace is in grave danger whenever he's around David and/or Jenelle.  But apparently the actual parties involved, and probably even a judge, see it otherwise.  So what are we seeing that they don't? 

A judge is not going to remove Jenelle's parental rights or keep her from having visitation with her child based on fears of what could happen. It is based on what is currently the situation that is presented to him/her at the time of a hearing. Until UBT or Jenelle make a wrong move that warrants a modification to the visitation order, the judge has no right to curtail Jenelle from having visitation. Just like Adumb still has visitation with Aubree although it is supervised. He is a danger to his daughter under many circumstances, but he is still allowed to see her under certain conditions. Back to the danger we see, we have fears based on what Jenelle and UBT have done. We see him as a loose cannon who could hurt Jenelle and the kids. I see Jenelle as someone who can also hurt the kids. I also see those two hurting those kids indirectly such as being high and the kids are left unattended. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by GreatKazu

[LBS]

29 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I surely do not think Barbara is anything to crow about.  To me she has bad mother written all over her.  She did have a live in boyfriend until he could not take it anymore and left.  I think she works so she can say look at me.  In the early years she had to work but now with MTV sending in a big check she's free to come and go as she pleases.  She plays to the camera.  She's mean and nasty and I would hate to have to call her Mother.

While in her care...who watches Jace while she works? 

She had a live-in boyfriend until he cheated on her and then she kicked him out.

The ‘supporting characters’ aka Barb, Randy, Ryan’s parents do not make a big paycheck.  They get a dividend on how much they are on screen.  Jenelle has severely cut that off but not that I think Barb minds it.  MTV money is taxed and applied to her income.  That can also affect her taxes/tax return.  If I was her and had a steady job with healthcare and a 401K, I’d forgo a chance y independent contractor 300K job.  We know she gets paid but it is way below then the ‘stars’.

 

While in Barb’s care.... Jace has been reared by a stable adult who has lived in the same house for almost his whole life.  He has lived with someone who respected her self enough not to be cheated on.  He lives with someone who makes his Shakespeare’s day costumes even though she has to work.  And as for work, Barb is like every working parent.  She makes sure she is in good after-care.  

[MissMel]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what are we seeing that they don't? 

David.  Barb rarely saw him and she isn't allowed to hang around him very long.  A judge wouldn't have seen him at all because they've been in mediation and David and Jenelle weren't married.  We also see Jenelle around David without the rose-colored glasses of being her mother.  A judge wouldn't have seen that, either.  

We also get to see them with Mtv's sweet edit of them.  And it's still scary.  The reality is even worse.  We don't have to follow the law or have proof as viewers, either.  DSS is satisfied with the home but that doesn't mean they think it's safe.  It's just not too dangerous for legal action right now.  There's no room for emotions in a courtroom, just proof and facts.  We viewers can be as emotional as we want.

[butterbody]

3 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Agree with the transporting. Having marijuana in your system is not evidence of transporting across state lines since it stays in the system for 28 days. I don't know what the closest state to NC that has legalized marijuana, but I'm gonna bet it's driving distance. My point is, she wouldn't have to be transporting MJ to have it in her system. Technically.

Of course she is illegally buying and smoking, but where's the evidence there?

People on this board have speculated that she avoided the test because she obtained a card in California. I was saying that it was a moot point that she had a card in another state. Not sure where that got muddled but I guess I wasn't explaining myself correctly. 

[salvame]

7 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what are we seeing that they don't? 

Only what MTV wants us to see to further their motives and increase their audience.

[Mr. Miner]

13 hours ago, LBS said:

 

 

While in Barb’s care.... Jace has been reared by a stable adult who has lived in the same house for almost his whole life.  He has lived with someone who respected her self enough not to be cheated on.  He lives with someone who makes his Shakespeare’s day costumes even though she has to work.  And as for work, Barb is like every working parent.  She makes sure she is in good after-care.  

I watched these two shit stains stand in the court house parking lot and call Barb a piece of shit, she's no longer my mother and other horrible things. Jenelle is already going to call her fucking lawyer about when Jace can actually leave for St. Thomas.

If Barb wants to be "petty" about things that are in contempt of court, I'd say she is entitled.

[ReadMeLattice]

15 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Agree with the transporting. Having marijuana in your system is not evidence of transporting across state lines since it stays in the system for 28 days. I don't know what the closest state to NC that has legalized marijuana, but I'm gonna bet it's driving distance. My point is, she wouldn't have to be transporting MJ to have it in her system. Technically.

Of course she is illegally buying and smoking, but where's the evidence there?

Also, doesn't THC stay in your system for a very, very long time? So isn't testing positive for it fairly meaningless in terms of legal proof of imminent danger? 

Also, I don't think marijuana alone is generally taken as a sign that the child needs to be removed. We are moving towards complete legalization in the U.S. and women drink while pregnant all the time (unfortunately), which is probably more dangerous. Overall, the marijuana thing is a sign that she's definitely lying about being sober, but probably was never going to result in much more than a visit from a social worker. It may have helped Barb but it wouldn't have made her case an automatic slam dunk.

[ghoulina]

On 9/23/2017 at 10:53 PM, JuliesMommy said:

Your words a thousand times!!!! That scene with barb was really, really petty. Not only was she hoping she was late, but then she hassled jace to try to admit/say he didnt have a good time at jenelles. Even the poor kid looked at her like..."lay off lady". 

It's possible that Barb's attourneys advised her to keep a record of any time Jenelle violates any of the court orders - including being late. I don't think Jace wants to be over there at ALL. It may be possible that if she screws up enough, now that there's a plan in place, she'll have to go to supervised. 

 

On 9/24/2017 at 1:20 AM, Rebecca said:

Because Adam is her father, Chelsea.

Adumb is Aubree's sperm donor. He certainly isn't her father. 

 

On 9/24/2017 at 2:37 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Barbara raised her and Janelle became Barb.  Plain and simple. 

I don't think Jenelle is Barb. They both make poor choices with how to communicate - both yell a lot and get defensive and don't really listen. They bait each other like no other. But that's where the comparison ends, IMO. Barb is a hard working woman and Jenelle has never held a true job. As far as I know Barb has never done drugs while pregnant and/or caring for her children. I don't think Barb has an arrest record. Barb had 3 children with one man, and has she ever been married again? We saw her with one significant other, but that's it. Jenelle changes men and pops out their children, like she's changing her socks. She's so cavalier about it. I've seen Barb shed real tears and show empathy for both her daughter and her grandchildren. I've never seen Jenelle shed a tear for anyone but herself. 

 

21 hours ago, lezlers said:

oh, I have no issue with her keeping track, that's important and she should.  What I took issue with was her tone, like she was HOPING Jenelle would be late. And you KNOW she'd say something to her in front of Jace if Jenelle WAS late.  

Honestly, that would be my tone too. After all the years of putting up with Jenelle's BS, I'd just be tickled pink if the bitch fucked up her court orders. I'd be DELIGHTED. 

I do agree that she should be a bit more careful of what she mentions in front of Jace. But I do think she's gotten better about it since they were first on the show, so my hope is that she continues to improve in that area. 

20 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I surely do not think Barbara is anything to crow about.  To me she has bad mother written all over her.  She did have a live in boyfriend until he could not take it anymore and left.

He cheated on her with a Hooter's waitress and was sent packing. 

 

20 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think she works so she can say look at me.  In the early years she had to work but now with MTV sending in a big check she's free to come and go as she pleases.

Barb has had the same job at Wal-mart since before MTV came around. I'd wager she keeps it because of job security. If the show ends, the other women will real struggle to support themselves. Barb can keep on keeping on like she's been doing. Plus, it keeps her from getting bored. 

 

20 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

While in her care...who watches Jace while she works? 

He's in school. If she works non-school hours, I'm sure he goes to daycare or a sitter - like all the other children of working parents. 

[teapot]

6 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

 

He's in school. If she works non-school hours, I'm sure he goes to daycare or a sitter - like all the other children of working parents. 

I kinda remember Barb taking Jace to daycare while Jenelle (you know, his MOTHER?) was living in her house and neither working *nor* going to school.  oh yeah, Jenelle's life has been *real* rough...

[TimeToCancelTM]

17 minutes ago, teapot said:

I kinda remember Barb taking Jace to daycare while Jenelle (you know, his MOTHER?) was living in her house and neither working *nor* going to school.  oh yeah, Jenelle's life has been *real* rough...

Back when jenelle was "too tired dude" to take care of jace while barb went to work...lol

[crazychicken]

1 hour ago, teapot said:

I kinda remember Barb taking Jace to daycare while Jenelle (you know, his MOTHER?) was living in her house and neither working *nor* going to school.  oh yeah, Jenelle's life has been *real* rough...

Of course it was rough for poor Janelle to disappear on a bender for days and not be able to see her son when she sobered up becuse her evil mother put HER baby in childcare. Dude Barb should of considered her feelings and quit her job to stay at home so she could access her son for the 10 minutes a day she wanted.

 

What really stands out for me is how Jace is referred to Barb normally uses his name while to Janelle he is a possession he is HER son.

[Rebecca]

On 9/24/2017 at 6:48 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I surely do not think Barbara is anything to crow about.  To me she has bad mother written all over her.  She did have a live in boyfriend until he could not take it anymore and left.  I think she works so she can say look at me.  In the early years she had to work but now with MTV sending in a big check she's free to come and go as she pleases.  She plays to the camera.  She's mean and nasty and I would hate to have to call her Mother.

While in her care...who watches Jace while she works? 

It's crazy how we can watch the same show and come to such different conclusions.

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

 

Adumb is Aubree's sperm donor. He certainly isn't her father. 

 

Surely you don't think I was sticking up for Adam in any way! Even though it sucks and he sucks at it he IS her father, both in fact and in a court of law. My post "to Chelsea" saying he was he father was in response to her always whining about why Aubree has to go over to Adam's. Specifically when she was saying it's unfair to Cole that Aubree goes to Adam's on Father's Day. I agree he's no "dad" to her and absolutely sucks but it's been this way her whole life and Chelsea picked him. Yes, she was young and dumb but whatever scraps she got from him were good enough for her/Aubree for a long time. I know Cole is a much better father figure and does much more for Aubree than Adam ever has. But, Adam is still her father and that's why she goes with him on Father's Day. Also, I think Chelsea should shut it until Aubree herself expresses that she doesn't want to go with Adam. I don't recall her ever saying she would rather spend Father's Day with Cole..that was all Chelsea.

[GreatKazu]

To be fair, @Rebecca kids can make their feelings known in direct and indirect ways. Jace  made his feelings known in a direct way he doesn't want to be around UBT. Who is to say Aubree didn't express she'd rather spend that day with her step-father and grandfather in a direct or indirect way to her mother away from the camera? Aubree is pretty vocal. We also know Aubree is not spending the day with her dad. She is spending it with her grandparents. Each visit is pretty much her time to be with her grandparents. I am sure Chelsea prefers it that way instead of Aubree being taken to Adumb's home where he falls asleep and Aubree is left to her own devices. 

It is true that Adumb has his right to his child regardless of the fact he is not father material. That doesn't mean Chelsea can't voice her child's wishes and her own concerns to her spouse, the man who is also Aubree's father. 

25 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

It's crazy how we can watch the same show and come to such different conclusions.

 

It is pretty shocking that Jenelle can be viewed on the same level of any decent human being, especially her mother. Pretty sad. We just viewed how her mother reached out to her to spend some family time together and all she got in return was a tramp who used her foul mouth to throw more shit at her poor mother. I swear to God, I am not a violent person, but if I could have a good five minutes to torture Jenelle, I would. 

[Rebecca]

@GreatKazu I agree but I wish then that Chelsea would frame it as that Aubree doesn't want to go there, if she feels or has been told that is the case, instead of saying it's not fair for Cole. We all know life isn't fair and I guarantee it's worse for Aubree to have a shithead father than it is for Cole to not get all the time on Father's Day. We all know Adam sucks but he still seemingly means something to Aubree. Chelsea should let her come to her own conclusions about how she feels about her father, Cole and their roles in her life. Aubree said she did spend time with him on Father's Day. Again, I'm definitely not sticking up for Adam, I'm actually looking at it as what I think is best for Aubree. She has to deal with the fact that Adam is her biological father for the rest of her life. Regardless of how involved he is or not. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Rebecca

[GreatKazu]

8 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

@GreatKazu I agree but I wish then that Chelsea would frame it as that Aubree doesn't want to go there, if she feels or has been told that is the case, instead of saying it's not fair for Cole. We all know life isn't fair and I guarantee it's worse for Aubree to have a shithead father than it is for Cole to not get all the time on Father's Day. We all know Adam sucks but he still seemingly means something to Aubree. Chelsea should let her come to her own conclusions about how she feels about her father, Cole and their roles in her life. Aubree said she did spend time with him on Father's Day. Again, I'm definitely not sticking up for Adam, I'm actually looking at it as what I think is best for Aubree. She has to deal with the fact that Adam is her biological father for the rest of her life.

Agree. Cole knew the situation when he met and married Chelsea. I don't hear him complaining. He knows the deal. I appreciate him not making it such a big deal like Chelsea.

We get it Chelsea, it is not fair. But hey, you can go to court and modify the court order so that he never gets any visitation due to his drug use or, at the very least, you can advise the grandparents that you want to modify the court order so that Father's Day and a couple other days will now be a day that Aubree spends with Cole. Adumb doesn't seem to care or appreciate being with his child, anyways. And yes, Aubree needs to be the one to speak up and say she doesn't want to spend any time with her dad. But in this case, I think it is time to sever the visits unless they are going to be supervised by someone other than Grandma due to Adumb's meth addiction. Chelsea is torn because she knows the grandparents play a major role in Aubree's life and she knows how much they love their grandchild and how much Aubree loves them. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by GreatKazu

[BitterApple]

Aubree seemed pretty excited when her Grandmother pulled into the driveway, so I think the drama over Father's Day was more Chelsea projecting rather than Aubree hating it at the Lind's.

As for Cole, I believe he's genuinely fond of Aubree and cares for her, but do I think he was torn to pieces about her not being there? No, not really. To me, they're still in that buddy phase. I don't get a father/child bond with them the way I do with Javi and Isaac.  I'm sure it will grow with time, but at this stage I don't think it was unfair to Cole that Aubree had to go to Adam's.

Edited September 26, 2017 by BitterApple

[Mkay]

9 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

 

It is pretty shocking that Jenelle can be viewed on the same level of any decent human being, especially her mother. Pretty sad. We just viewed how her mother reached out to her to spend some family time together and all she got in return was a tramp who used her foul mouth to throw more shit at her poor mother. I swear to God, I am not a violent person, but if I could have a good five minutes to torture Jenelle, I would. 

YES!!!

[Jeanne222]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Aubree seemed pretty excited when her Grandmother pulled into the driveway, so I think the drama over Father's Day was more Chelsea projecting rather than Aubree hating it at the Lind's.

As for Cole, I believe he's genuinely fond of Aubree and cares for her, but do I think he was torn to pieces about her not being there? No, not really. To me, they're still in that buddy phase. I don't get a father/child bond with them the way I do with Javi and Isaac.  I'm sure it will grow with time, but at this stage I don't think it was unfair to Cole that Aubree had to go to Adam's.

I agree.  Cole and Aubree are more good friends but then Cole might just be 'that kind of guy'.   Javi and Isaac had a real bond but Javi might be that kind of guy.  Personalities play into all of this.  Some people are OPEN and some are CLOSED to different relationships.  Doesn't mean either are good or bad just the personality.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jeanne222

[Jeanne222]

I'm sorry but Barbara disgusts me.  I never get the idea she keeps Jace because she loves him so much.  I get the idea she keeps him to keep winning over Janelle.  It's Barb's happy place and every time she can she digs that knife right in.

 

Barb didn't want a family weekend.  Very passive/aggressive behavior is what I saw.  Bait them in then have a laugh when they refuse. 

Barb's history with raising kids that all became troubled would surely be a red flag to me when deciding where to place Jace. 

Her troubled brother almost burned down the house and her sister dabbled in witchcraft and was one of the goth kids.  Were they born that way?  Watching Barb I seriously doubt it.  Living with her would make anybody unstable.  I can see radical changes in Jace in just this last year under Barb's care.  He's tired of it.  He's pretty much done and seems to go into his happy place.  Time is not going to be good to little Jace.  I can see him developing into somebody just like Janelle's brother.  Sorry if that offends anybody that thinks Barbara is doing a good job but sometimes the truth is what it is.

Many see Janelle as a problem and she surely is but she was raised by a very dysfunctional mother and I fear for Jace I surely do. 

[TimeToCancelTM]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I agree.  Cole and Aubree are more good friends but then Cole might just be 'that kind of guy'.   Javi and Isaac had a real bond but Javi might be that kind of guy.  Personalities play into all of this.  Some people are OPEN and some are CLOSED to different relationships.  Doesn't meat either are good or bad just the personality.

I completely agree as well with the cole/aubree relationship. One thing that i love about Cole, is from the beginning and up until now he's never said 1 bad thing about adam. Not even a smirk, eye roll, or any negativity any time chelsea or the producers have brought him up. I genuinely think its out of respect for aubree and chelsea. He as well as everyone else knows what a piece of shit adam is, and without him even trying to be a father figure in aubrees life or bashing adam he continues to win her over. THAT alone speaks volumes of him. I also think that he doesnt want to step over barriers with aubree especially since adam IS still in her life. Chelsea needs to just continue to appreciate the little family she made and aubree will see on her own (as she has) who her real dad/sperm donor is.

[ghoulina]

43 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Her troubled brother almost burned down the house and her sister dabbled in witchcraft and was one of the goth kids.

I'm sorry, what? "One of the goth kids"? So? Is that some sort of indicator of something? Is this the West Memphis Three all over again? I don't know what you mean by "dabbling in witchcraft", but MANY teenagers show an interest in the occult and various subcultures and it doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them. 

Now, I do realize that all of Barb's kids have turned out to have various problems. To me, that speaks to possibly a GENETIC factor. Their father was an abusive POS, so it's quite possible they inherited something from him. Did Barb raise them perfectly? Probably not. But she had to raise them alone, after having the shit beat out of her for years. It's possible that seeing all that they saw from an early age contributed a lot to how Jenelle and her siblings turned out. Possibly they had a genetic predisposition to mental or personality disorders, and the abusive home and absentee father life just exacerbated it. I know Barb has her flaws, but I'm not willing to put the entire ONUS on her. 

As for Jace, I only see him going to a "happy place" around Jenelle. Rainbow song, anyone? He clearly adores Meme and was terrified at the idea of being removed from her home. I think she's doing well by him. She's got him in therapy. She's working on not engaging with Jenelle. She has him involved in activities and participates in school events. I wouldn't buy that Jenelle would ever do any of that stuff. 

[lovesnark]

53 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm sorry but Barbara disgusts me.  I never get the idea she keeps Jace because she loves him so much.  I get the idea she keeps him to keep winning over Janelle.  It's Barb's happy place and every time she can she digs that knife right in.

 

Barb didn't want a family weekend.  Very passive/aggressive behavior is what I saw.  Bait them in then have a laugh when they refuse. 

Barb's history with raising kids that all became troubled would surely be a red flag to me when deciding where to place Jace. 

Her troubled brother almost burned down the house and her sister dabbled in witchcraft and was one of the goth kids.  Were they born that way?  Watching Barb I seriously doubt it.  Living with her would make anybody unstable.  I can see radical changes in Jace in just this last year under Barb's care.  He's tired of it.  He's pretty much done and seems to go into his happy place.  Time is not going to be good to little Jace.  I can see him developing into somebody just like Janelle's brother.  Sorry if that offends anybody that thinks Barbara is doing a good job but sometimes the truth is what it is.

Many see Janelle as a problem and she surely is but she was raised by a very dysfunctional mother and I fear for Jace I surely do. 

Her brother was diagnosed as schizophrenic. Not a result of bad parenting. There are millions of kids who try the goth thing to be cool and fit in with a group in school. Most of them outgrow it before they graduate. Since Jenelle's father was an abusive jerk who made the choice to have no contact with his children after he left, we have no idea if there is a history of mental illness on his side of the family. Barb didn't dump her kids and go chase after new boyfriends. She worked 2 jobs to put a roof over their heads and food in there bellys. Yes, I'm sure she made a lot of mistakes. But, she did right by her children and is doing right by her grandchildren. No one has a perfect childhood. And, by the time you're 25 years old and have been popping out kids with every new guy you meet, it's time to take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming your screwed up life on your mother.

The radical change in Jace is evident when he's with his egg donor. He shuts down and agrees with everything she says to keep from being badgered with more 'Do you love me? Do you love David? You want to live with me, right?' questions. When he's with Barb, he acts like an average little boy. Bottom line is, without Barb, he would have wound up in the system and Jenelle would never have seen him or cared. As far as 'winning', Jenelle was the one using the words won or lost in regard to the recent custody decision. The only thing out of Barb's mouth about it was what was best for Jace. She said this wasn't about her, it wasn't about Jenelle, it was about Jace.

Agree to disagree.

[HeySandyStrange]

Just wanted to add, "witchcraft" aka Paganism is a very legit religion. In fact it was actually one of the first religions. My guess is Ashley went through a goth emo phase where the witchcraft she dabbled in was more akin to dungeons and dragons then actual ritualistic magic. Millions of teens do the same thing and end up okay. 

[DangerousMinds]

Nothing wrong with being a goth.

[GreatKazu]

12 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Nothing wrong with being a goth.

Amen. 

So much better than being a psychotic bitch who pops out babies with every dude that comes along and who has a rap sheet longer and thicker than their wedding program. 

[radishcake]

Hey guys I don’t care what you do in your day to day, this board is for talking about the show and what you think about it. Sniping back and forth about your day jobs is off topic. Continued dialogue in this manner will result in time outs. 

[Rebecca]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Nothing wrong with being a goth.

This. I feel like it's some other decade with mentioning goths like they're somehow automatically a bad thing.

If anything Barb spoiled and babied Jenelle. When she purposefully stole barb's credit card to run off with Keiffer I would've had her ass arrested. Barb did not even though Jenelle treated her like complete crap in regard to that situation (and in just about every other situation). Steal my credit card and then be a huge bitch and tell me you're going to dictate the payback schedule when I'm saving your ass from jail? Hell no!  

I also suspect much of what we see in Jenelle is genetic. I also feel like Barb feels guilty about Jenelle's father abandoning his kids and for things Jenelle may have seen him do in her childhood. I think that plays in to why she hasn't cut Jenelle off and keeps taking her abuse. I also think she's trying her best to see that Jace has a better childhood and that fact is a huge part of why Jenelle acts like she does. I think Jenelle is jealous of Jace' relationship with Barb and all that she sees Barb doing for Jace. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Rebecca

[lovesnark]

51 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

This. I feel like it's some other decade with mentioning goths like they're somehow automatically a bad thing.

If anything Barb spoiled and babied Jenelle. When she purposefully stole barb's credit card to run off with Keiffer I would've had her ass arrested. Barb did not even though Jenelle treated her like complete crap in regard to that situation (and in just about every other situation). Steal my credit card and then be a huge bitch and tell me you're going to dictate the payback schedule when I'm saving your ass from jail? Hell no!  

I also suspect much of what we see in Jenelle is genetic. I also feel like Barb feels guilty about Jenelle's father abandoning his kids and for things Jenelle may have seen him do in her childhood. I think that plays in to why she hasn't cut Jenelle off and keeps taking her abuse. I also think she's trying her best to see that Jace has a better childhood and that fact is a huge part of why Jenelle acts like she does. I think Jenelle is jealous of Jace' relationship with Barb and all that she sees Barb doing for Jace. 

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! Jenelle can't stand that Barb puts what's best for Jace ahead of what Jenelle wants. It eats her alive that Jace is front and center in Barb's life and she's not. Barb has said that Jenelle was much more spoiled than the other kids because she's the youngest and Barb's financial situation was better when Jenelle was a teenager.

[GreatKazu]

1 minute ago, lovesnark said:

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! Jenelle can't stand that Barb puts what's best for Jace ahead of what Jenelle wants. It eats her alive that Jace is front and center in Barb's life and she's not. Barb has said that Jenelle was much more spoiled than the other kids because she's the youngest and Barb's financial situation was better when Jenelle was a teenager.

Agree. There is a lot of jealousy brewing inside of Jenelle. If she isn't number one, no one else should be. You can see it when she becomes upset at UBT for not doting on her and giving her the attention she craves. We have even watched Jenelle lash out at Barb for being there for her older sister, the one who was shown for a brief time on camera. Jenelle threw a hissy-fit when Barb informed her she would be visiting her older daughter. Jenelle sat there on her stairs and bashed Barb for spending time with her sibling and trying to lay a guilt trip. 

[lovesnark]

6 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Agree. There is a lot of jealousy brewing inside of Jenelle. If she isn't number one, no one else should be. You can see it when she becomes upset at UBT for not doting on her and giving her the attention she craves. We have even watched Jenelle lash out at Barb for being there for her older sister, the one who was shown for a brief time on camera. Jenelle threw a hissy-fit when Barb informed her she would be visiting her older daughter. Jenelle sat there on her stairs and bashed Barb for spending time with her sibling and trying to lay a guilt trip. 

Yep. Remember when Barb wanted to have the whole family together for Christmas and was gracious enough to invite UBT even though she'd just met him? Jenelle pitched one of her fits because SHE wanted to make the Christmas plans and dictate what they'd do. If she was with her siblings, she wouldn't be the center of attention. I believe she wound up having Christmas with UBT and Maryssa. That way she could be Saint Jenelle who bought all the expensive gifts and all the attention would be on her.

[TeenMomAngerMgmt]

23 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm sorry but Barbara disgusts me.  I never get the idea she keeps Jace because she loves him so much.  I get the idea she keeps him to keep winning over Janelle.  It's Barb's happy place and every time she can she digs that knife right in.

 

Barb didn't want a family weekend.  Very passive/aggressive behavior is what I saw.  Bait them in then have a laugh when they refuse. 

Barb's history with raising kids that all became troubled would surely be a red flag to me when deciding where to place Jace. 

Her troubled brother almost burned down the house and her sister dabbled in witchcraft and was one of the goth kids.  Were they born that way?  Watching Barb I seriously doubt it.  Living with her would make anybody unstable.  I can see radical changes in Jace in just this last year under Barb's care.  He's tired of it.  He's pretty much done and seems to go into his happy place.  Time is not going to be good to little Jace.  I can see him developing into somebody just like Janelle's brother.  Sorry if that offends anybody that thinks Barbara is doing a good job but sometimes the truth is what it is.

Many see Janelle as a problem and she surely is but she was raised by a very dysfunctional mother and I fear for Jace I surely do. 

I really strongly disagree with all of this. The goth and witchcraft thing has already been addressed, but how are you going to put the blame all on Barb for how the kids turned out? They had another parent, and that parent was apparently absent and abusive. I don't doubt that Barb made mistakes, but she did the best she could to provide for all of them. Jenelle's brother has schizophrenia, which has a strong genetic component. Even if his childhood had been conventionally normal he still would have exhibited those symptoms. It happens everyday. Barb is doing her best with Jace. He's in school and activities he loves, she is active in his classroom and with homework, she has him in therapy, what more do you want from this woman? These are her golden years where she should be enjoying herself and spoiling her grandkids and sending them back home at the end of the visit. 

[GreatKazu]

9 minutes ago, TeenMomAngerMgmt said:

I really strongly disagree with all of this. The goth and witchcraft thing has already been addressed, but how are you going to put the blame all on Barb for how the kids turned out? They had another parent, and that parent was apparently absent and abusive. I don't doubt that Barb made mistakes, but she did the best she could to provide for all of them. Jenelle's brother has schizophrenia, which has a strong genetic component. Even if his childhood had been conventionally normal he still would have exhibited those symptoms. It happens everyday. Barb is doing her best with Jace. He's in school and activities he loves, she is active in his classroom and with homework, she has him in therapy, what more do you want from this woman? These are her golden years where she should be enjoying herself and spoiling her grandkids and sending them back home at the end of the visit. 

This. 

I am beginning to think there is something personal with the Barb hate.  

Barb and her children were the victims of domestic violence. That abuse on top of all the mental issues affecting her children, had to do a number on all of them. We can certainly have sympathy for what they ALL suffered, even Jenelle. It is obvious it still affects them to this day. When I hear Jenelle screaming and cursing, I imagine that is what she saw her father do on a daily basis. When she has become violent and physically abusive, it is obvious she learned that from her dad, the person she has professed her love for on more than one occasion. 

[ReadMeLattice]

20 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Just wanted to add, "witchcraft" aka Paganism is a very legit religion. In fact it was actually one of the first religions. My guess is Ashley went through a goth emo phase where the witchcraft she dabbled in was more akin to dungeons and dragons then actual ritualistic magic. Millions of teens do the same thing and end up okay. 

Yeah, was gonna say that Wicca is a legit religion just like Christianity, Buddhism or anything else. *steps off mini-soapbox*

Separate from that, I always come down right in the middle on these nature/nurture arguments. It is ALWAYS both, IMO. It's never one or the other. With both Kailyn and Jenelle--and, well, everybody-- genetic, environmental, trauma-based, and individual factors all played a role. What we see as the 'main factor' in how a person went wrong is often a result of our own biases towards or against the person, or maybe insider knowledge of that person's history.

Nathan is a good example of this: Some see Nathan as more sympathetic even though he's an abuser, because he has PTSD so we can speculate that maybe some of his abuse is because of that. But we don't *really* know how much of his abuse is just how he is as a person, or how much of it is exacerbated by his alcoholism--and was his alcoholism due to PTSD, or did it exist before, or was substance abuse genetic for him too? We can never really know. It all depends on how we view it, our own biases and how much we know about the person before and after the trauma, their genetics, their personality, and their upbringing, really. 

Same thing with Barb/Jenelle. At this point, I don't see much to sympathize with when it comes to Jenelle, but others might. I don't know how traumatized she is or not, or what her soul consists of. I can speculate that she is an awful person because of what she's done, but at the end of the day, I don't actually know. I wasn't there and can't pry into her genetics or turn back time and alter the course of her life. It's my opinion at this point that, as with Nathan (and David, and the other abusers on this show--Ryan, Adam, Kail, etc.), she would have been that way no matter what...but what the hell do I really know about these people? Not a lot, except that their actions hurt a lot of innocent people and animals, and at this point their victims matter more than they do.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Lm2162

[TeenMomAngerMgmt]

Also I'm gonna check in as a former teen who dabbled in Wicca and goth culture and is today what most people would consider an adult who is good at adult-ing (I fake it really well).

[GreatKazu]

Quote

It's my opinion at this point that, as with Nathan (and David, and the other abusers on this show--Ryan, Adam, Kail, etc.), she would have been that way no matter what...but what the hell do I really know about these people? Not a lot, except that their actions hurt a lot of innocent people and animals, and at this point their victims matter more than they do.

This.

The bolded part says it all.

[cheewhiz]

For some reason my tv only recorded 30 minutes of this shit show. Before the last segment there was a warning about disturbing content.  What happened??

[GreatKazu]

2 minutes ago, cheewhiz said:

For some reason my tv only recorded 30 minutes of this shit show. Before the last segment there was a warning about disturbing content.  What happened??

MTV aired the Ryan under the influence while driving scene. They used Chelsea's segment and what she is going through with Adumb as a way to rehash that moment. She is showing her dad the footage. 

The thing about that warning in this episode was, it appeared right before Kail's segment, not Chelsea's, which made it seem like Kail is disturbing content. They got that right.