S08.E12: Somewhere Else

[MaggieG]

Briana: "What is with these men?" No Briana, what's with you? You're the one who went to the club and got knocked up by a rando and got yourself into this mess. I swear, Luis could be going to med school or saving orphans from housefires and the coven would still have an issue with him. I know he's a deadbeat but the guy can't win.

I would be 50 shades of pissed if I was busting my butt but going to school, working, arranging child care, paying money for said child care and this bitch Kail shows up to class with her kids every Wed. Like we have said before, she has every resource available to her where she can easily pay for someone to watch the kids or drop them off with their fathers. Fuck her.

I like Jo saying "Hello Handsome" when his dad answered the phone.

The way Jenelle and UBT go on and on about how Jace hase to go back there (there meaning Barb's house) you would think Jace is living in a one room shack with no food and no running water and Barb was abusing him. Newsflash idiots, that's his home. That poor child. 

Jeremy's mom seems very sweet.

Edited September 22, 2017 by MaggieG
spelling!

[teapot]

I noticed that this is the second time Chelsea's worn a Guns & Roses shirt.  (yes I know that she probs has no idea who they are;  unless Randalicious enlightened her to the wonder of "Sweet Child O'Mine..." but I digress. And I kind of HATE that trend, because that music belongs to US, but what're you gonna do?)

It struck me as strange, though, because don't they usually blur out T-shirt logos?

Maybe GnR are huge Teen Mom fans? That must be it!

[StatisticalOutlier]

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

[teapot]

12 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

 

agreed!  It was so insightful of Leah to point that out to him, that it was too much of a "high and low" thing.  she pleasantly surprised me!

[KikiBda]

What does Jermery do for a living ?

[GreatKazu]

I am barely drinking my coffee and I am working on a few hours sleep. As far as Jeremy working elsewhere, I think the choices he made back when he was with Leah is a big part of why he is where he is now. He was working out of town when he met and married Leah. She seemed fine with it in the beginning. As time went on, she wasn't having it. She wanted him home more and be more hands on. He advised her the pay was better where he was working and in order to afford their expenses, he needed that job. She still threw her fits. She was also an addict who was splurging their money on drugs and material items. They were behind on their taxes. Jeremy did find work closer to home, but it was at a reduced pay. Expenses and monthly costs were becoming a bigger issue since Leah had to have horses and other things that were costing a pretty penny on top of that addiction that was surely burning threw their money. Who can forget that Mary Kay fiasco.  I do remember long ago when Jeremy and Cory both mentioned employment in their area was not as good as elsewhere. To seek work in their area, one was not going to get paid as much as they would elsewhere. 

Jeremy no doubt enjoys the single life. Leah sure did herself when she was married. 

Leah's addiction was the basis for the dissolution of her marriage. She can thank herself for the choices she made that ended up putting Addie in a position where her father would no longer be in her life the way it was before.  

There isn't much shown about Jeremy, and I sure won't take Leah's word on much since her credibility is shot as far as I am concerned. I don't know how much he sees his daughter. I do see Addie wanting to see her daddy. No doubt part of that is because she sees her sisters going to their dad's home on a weekly basis. She is too young to fathom what is happening, but unlike her mother, she will hopefully understand her dad has a job out of town. 

 

12 minutes ago, KikiBda said:

What does Jermery do for a living ?

.He does pipeline work. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

I have my criticisms of Jeremy too, but he was always 100% honest about his career and it's location when he and Leah were even dating.

He was never going to be a full time or even significant caretaker to any children he had (married to the mom or not), and Leah was okay with that. Some parents live away from their kids and just aren't involved in caregiving. Of course the guy is no JAVI who while deployed and serving our country half way around the world still made an effort to face time etc, but that's because Javi really values having an emotional connection with his kids (both Issac and Lincoln). Jeremy doesn't- not to say he doesn't care about Addy's well being, but in his head he financially supports her and makes sure she's cared for, and she knows who he is so he's done "his job". 

Jeremy is the type of guy who was interested in passing on his DNA and legacy but not interested in the actual physical and emotional labor of parenting. So frustrating for Addy who obviously adores him. For her sake I hope it's "enough" for her (and it may be) when she's old enough to shrug her shoulders and go "oh well". 

He doesn't need any more kids though, but he doesn't have a son so something tells he will probably have one more. 

 

@GreatKazu we are of similar minds. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Scarlett45

[GreatKazu]

Quote

  

@GreatKazu we are of similar minds. 

Yep. :-) 

[nikita]

57 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

Yes, that sorta bothered me that he put making money for Addie's college over actually consistently being in her life...although that opinion sounds a lil' cray.

[BitterApple]

59 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

 

I think that's why Leah made it a point to tell him the surprise thing is okay once in a while but he shouldn't be doing it all the time. It just gets Addie excited and sets her up for a big letdown when he goes away again. Plus, I think he really only does it to alleviate his guilt over not being present in her life on a consistent basis. 

As far as his job, I can't really blame him for sticking with the pipeline gig, but I get the feeling he could probably step up his game to keep in contact with his daughter when he's on the road.

[athousandclowns]

What? Chelsea father is a dermatologist or dentist? Giving Botox ? How did I miss what he did for a living??? 

I believe Cole and his concern but then I like him.  He's a good step dad  then there David reigning terror over many children from various fathers 

I guess the road trip to give Barb props is delayed.  I've been gone for a week and watching a segment called 

Being Natan but it's some MTV group house thing. 

Janelle is without guilt or self awareness and is a waste of skin. 

[Mkay]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

 

As far as his job, I can't really blame him for sticking with the pipeline gig, but I get the feeling he could probably step up his game to keep in contact with his daughter when he's on the road.

Where can I sign my husband up for this job so he can be gone for long periods of time? Oh! I mean money, so he can make money.  

Yea

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

What? Chelsea father is a dermatologist or dentist? Giving Botox ? How did I miss what he did for a living??? 

He's a dentist. A lot of them have started to do Botox and fillers. It's an easy way to make heaps of cash.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

What? Chelsea father is a dermatologist or dentist? Giving Botox ? How did I miss what he did for a living??? 

He's a dentist. But from what @CofCinci posted, he is a specialist in maxillofacial surgery. 

Quote

I guess the road trip to give Barb props is delayed.  I've been gone for a week and watching a segment called 

Being Natan but it's some MTV group house thing. 

What happened to that Being Nathan special? Is it going to air? 

The road trip is a must!

Edited September 22, 2017 by GreatKazu

[MissMel]

17 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

What happened to that Being Nathan special? Is it going to air? 

The current schedule is for Wed 9/27 at 9PM Eastern.  

50 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

I've been gone for a week and watching a segment called 

Being Natan but it's some MTV group house thing.

That wasn't the special, it was a show called The Challenge.  It's been confusing for everyone.

47 minutes ago, Mkay said:

Where can I sign my husband up for this job so he can be gone for long periods of time? Oh! I mean money, so he can make money.  

Yea

Haha!  I was married for over 14 years to my ex.  The only reason it lasted so long was because he worked out of town. Lol  The money didn't suck either.  

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, nikita said:

Yes, that sorta bothered me that he put making money for Addie's college over actually consistently being in her life...although that opinion sounds a lil' cray.

It doesn't sound crazy to me just a different set of priorities. To Jeremy a father's job is to provide financially, and the mother's job is to provide emotional support and physical care-taking. I know a lot of people who grew up this way- they knew their parents loved and cared about them but the day to day nurturing was done by live in grandparents or the nanny (these parents had high paying careers they weren't off getting high or anything like that). 

I do think in 2017 Jeremy SHOULD put in more effort to face time etc, the technology is there. I do think when Addy is older and capable of having more stimulating conversations he might (I did say might) end up communicating with her more. 

[gunderda]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

 

His "surprise' visits are starting to bug me.  Like I get your work schedule is not super solid but it's starting to irk that every time he can see her it has to be a surprise.  I feel like it's so he can see how excited she gets to see him. And why was he not staying with his parents/addy in town at the beach? 

[Ladystardust]

I grew up in WV and the mindset there is very much that men financially support their children and women do the rest. Men are not generally expected to get involved in their children's lives otherwise. Rarely did dads show up to school events, parent teacher conferences, church, extra curricular events, etc.  I'm trying to get my brother out of that mindset - it's driving his wife crazy, as she grew up in another state and that wasn't the norm for her.

It's crazy, but not that strange that that is how Jeremy is thinking. Leah probably wouldn't even think anything of it if she hadn't been exposed to more of an outside perspective than most people in WV by being on a tv show.

I loved her date with that guy when she was talking about CA. I lived in CA for a while after college and people from back home think it's a different planet. And one they have zero interest in. I could tell by that guy's face what he thought of visiting CA. 

[GreatKazu]

Being a native and life-long resident of So. California, I can't imagine living anywhere else. 

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, JuliesMommy said:

How random was the scene where they made chelsea bring up Ryan from TMog??? I get that shes boring now, and doesnt have much of a storyline...but that was ridiculous imo. Ryan driving under the influence has nothing to do with adam...yes, adam is a piece of shit, and yes, hes a terrible dad...but that whole made up scene by the producers was lame...just something for chelsea to talk about, and to continue having somewhat of a storyline. 

Sick bastards that they are, MTV loves that scene. It's so controversial and got a lot of attention, and that's what they want. If they could air it on every program they have, they would. 

 

4 hours ago, BXD said:

One thing I will say is that Jenelle is 100% right when she says she needs to spend more 1 on 1 time with Jace and work on repairing their relationship. Problem is I think it is only for the cameras and once the novelty of her having him visit regularly wears off, she won't care anymore. Poor kid. :(

She probably also says that because Jace is easier to "spend time with" than Kaiser and End Table. So she's basically telling David - "I need more time with him, so you're on baby/toddler duty!"

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I can't be sure, but I think with his line of work, he doesn't always know until the last minute that he can get the weekend off to go down and see her. I do agree that it might unintentionally send a bad message, but I don't think he's trying to be flaky. 

 

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

It doesn't sound crazy to me just a different set of priorities. To Jeremy a father's job is to provide financially, and the mother's job is to provide emotional support and physical care-taking. I know a lot of people who grew up this way- they knew their parents loved and cared about them but the day to day nurturing was done by live in grandparents or the nanny (these parents had high paying careers they weren't off getting high or anything like that). 

My husband is that way....to a degree. He is home every night and loves nothing more than to hang out with the kids, but any chance for OT or side work and he takes it. It's why he was in Afghanistan as a civilian contractor for over a year, and missed the birth of our second son. He's the sole provider and I think he feels tremendous pressure to make sure we're always taken care of. There is something to be said for balance, but I can't fault fathers who feel that way. 

[rafibomb]

2 hours ago, nikita said:

Yes, that sorta bothered me that he put making money for Addie's college over actually consistently being in her life...although that opinion sounds a lil' cray.

I do appreciate him prioritizing saving money for Addie's education.

However, if he leaves Leah fully in charge of raising her, there's a pretty good possibility she'll end up knocked up as a teenager and never go to college. Or, randomly enrolling for a semester every few years, attending for a month, then deciding it's too hard and dropping out. Which I guess does cost money, so at least he can help with that. 

[Miss Chevious]

2 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

I do appreciate him prioritizing saving money for Addie's education.

However, if he leaves Leah fully in charge of raising her, there's a pretty good possibility she'll end up knocked up as a teenager and never go to college. Or, randomly enrolling for a semester every few years, attending for a month, then deciding it's too hard and dropping out. Which I guess does cost money, so at least he can help with that. 

I agree. The way Leah tarts up those girls plus the way she instills the idea in their heads their main mission in life is to look sexy and get a man makes it seem more likely two out of three will be knocked up teen moms.

If Gracie or Addy make it to college, they'll be looking for their MRS degree.

Except for Ali, she seems like she'd be too smart for that. 

[mittsigirl]

On 9/20/2017 at 9:18 PM, kitkat343 said:

Some custody agreements allow a noncustodial parent to take the child on vacation, and the parent with primary custody simply needs to be notified in writing a certain number of days in advance that this will occur.  The parent with primary custody does not need to grant permission; they simply need to be notified.  Jenelle mentioned that this was the case for her Jace's custody agreement in the last episode (not that she is an unimpeachable source, but it is possible that the custody agreement states that she can take Jace on vacation wherever she wants to go as long as it is during the time she has visitation and notifies Barb in writing).  Other custody agreements may require the permission from the custodial parent for travel; it just matters how the agreement was written.

Thanks for setting me straight!

[CofCinci]

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

Jeremy did the surprise visit at the beach so that a portion of the trip would be paid by mtv. 

[ReadMeLattice]

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

100 percent agree. It's not setting a good example. Jeremy very much adheres to the 'guy as provider and occasionally seeing the children, woman as constant caretaker and homemaker' model, and that's fine if you agree to it and are together, but even if you are still working, you HAVE to set up something else and attempt consistency if you divorce and are no longer a traditional family unit.

[AirQuotes]

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice? 

It seems kind of cruel, especially since she sees her sisters having a regular schedule with their dad. 

I understood what he was saying about opportunities in West Virginia while enjoying a beer in Pittsburgh, and working is something that not all the dads on this show embrace, but I just can't get in his camp.  Maybe, if you want to have a career but it's not possible in a certain place, you shouldn't knock up a girl who lives in that certain place with twins and an involved ex-husband who's not going to put up with her moving away.  And if you do it anyway, then you need to figure out a way to be involved instead of living a single man's life elsewhere while claiming you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter.

Surprising her once was cute.  Doing it repeatedly is getting weird.  I think most of this weirdness we see is MTV producer instigated though.  Probably he needed to show up at the beach and do something "entertaining" (even if halfway) so that MTV would pick up at least some of the vacation tab.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, rafibomb said:

I do appreciate him prioritizing saving money for Addie's education.

However, if he leaves Leah fully in charge of raising her, there's a pretty good possibility she'll end up knocked up as a teenager and never go to college. Or, randomly enrolling for a semester every few years, attending for a month, then deciding it's too hard and dropping out. Which I guess does cost money, so at least he can help with that. 

That's a good point. She constantly has those girls in loads of makeup on Instagram. And once I saw Ali wearing a dress that seemed very low cut for a little girl. In this case, her girls probably would really benefit from a strong male presence in their life. 

[Christina87]

I like what @Scarlett45 said about how when she's older, he'll hopefully be more involved. This is the vibe I get with Jeremy, and I hope it's not wishful thinking! I see him doing a lot better when addy is maybe 10, and can communicate much better. At that point, she can even text him! Some men don't have much of an interest in little kids (though most try to take an interest in their own!) but do really well with older kids and teens. I hope he will be there for her as a teen, because she needs someone to talk some common sense into her and discourage her from Leah's approach to everything!

[heatherchandler]

5 hours ago, teapot said:

I noticed that this is the second time Chelsea's worn a Guns & Roses shirt.  (yes I know that she probs has no idea who they are;  unless Randalicious enlightened her to the wonder of "Sweet Child O'Mine..." but I digress. And I kind of HATE that trend, because that music belongs to US, but what're you gonna do?)

It struck me as strange, though, because don't they usually blur out T-shirt logos?

Maybe GnR are huge Teen Mom fans? That must be it!

This made me so crazy angry.  Like, really, you are a GnR fan???

[TheRealT]

On 9/21/2017 at 3:05 PM, ghoulina said:

Yup. Never once has she asked Jace why he is scared, or what's really going on. She already comes from the position of "David is so great! You have no reason to be scared". So she's not open to hearing her son's real thoughts and feelings, and he knows better than to voice them. 

Jenelle knows that Jace is afraid of UBT and she knows exactly why. She is there when UBT flies into rages directed at her, Jace, Kaiser, Barb (in person and in absentia), and whomever else. She is there when UBT beats or otherwise terrorizes Kaiser in front of Jace. She knows, but she tells herself that UBT is "disciplining" the kids for their own good and that he is a good man and/or she just goes into her denial space and chooses to believe that UBT's monster moments aren't real, that really he's the guy who makes breakfast and plans a fun day of bubble making and dirt bike riding on The Land.

23 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I am so worried about what happens when jenelle decides jace is no longer beneficial for her. I can't imagine what it will be like for him when he's in his teens and says or does something to upset her. I could see her holding a massive grudge and cursing at him, just like she does barb! It will hurt him so horribly when that happens. All this fake sweetness she shows jace isn't her real personality, and it will go away when custody is no longer an issue. 

Jenelle is only sweet to Jace for the cameras (and even that isn't consistent) and maybe at other odd moments, probably mostly in front of others. I believe that Jace feels some attachment to her, but he certainly doesn't feel safe with her or believe that she adores him. I think it will be hurtful for him, but Jace will probably be better off when/if Jenelle drops out of his life and/or he chooses not to see her regularly/at all. She's toxic and, to a great extent, she can't help it. She's sociopathic (not a clinical diagnosis, but I think she's truly incapable of connecting emotionally with her children). Once the MTV money is gone, she will probably be penniless within a couple of years and will have to rely on abusive druggy boyfriends, Barb, and whatever other resources she can scrape up to get by. The Happy Mom Who Spends Money on Her Kids persona will be the first thing to go. She'll ditch the kids on whomever ASAP to focus all of her energies and remaining resources on herself and her soulmate-of-the-month.

5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So what's y'all take on Jeremy and his surprise visits?  He did it at the beach this episode, and I'm remembering that he did it once before.  He sees that kid seldom enough as it is, and I just wonder what he's modeling for her--men in your life will pop in and out without notice?

I think the surprise visits are weird. This one was clearly staged so Jeremy could have a scene showing how much Addie loves him (and, by inference, that Leah's criticisms of him on the show are unfair), but, even more generally, I think it's clear that Addie struggles with not seeing him regularly. Whether he's "right" or "wrong" for being absent, he should do as much as possible to have regular contact with her and prioritize that above spending time with his girlfriend and other optional activities. Especially now, when Addie is so young and less able to understand why he's not around or have satisfying communication with him via phone/etc. The "Surprise! Daddy's here!" sets up a pattern of instability and unpredictability for Addie. She never knows when he'll show up or when he'll leave and she's supposed to just be ok with that. What adult would put up with that from someone who's supposed to be important in their life?

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have my criticisms of Jeremy too, but he was always 100% honest about his career and it's location when he and Leah were even dating.

@GreatKazuHe was never going to be a full time or even significant caretaker to any children he had (married to the mom or not), and Leah was okay with that.

Personally, I don't feel like parents just get to announce up front that they are only interested in parenting up to a certain level. If you have a kid and they need more than what you "signed up for," I think you need to do more than you were hoping/expecting. When you have a child, you can't necessarily anticipate exactly what the child will need, but you have to step up to do your best to provide what your child needs regardless.

What if, before the twins were born, Leah and/or Corey had announced that they would take the kids to the doctor up to 5 times a year, but that was it? That's probably adequate for most kids, but Ali needs to go more, so they need to take her to the doctor more. Even if you shift it to "Corey said he'd go to doctor up to 5 times and Leah agreed to handle all appointments beyond that," it doesn't make sense to me that that would be acceptable when they ended up having a child with special healthcare needs.

1 hour ago, rafibomb said:

However, if he leaves Leah fully in charge of raising her, there's a pretty good possibility she'll end up knocked up as a teenager and never go to college. Or, randomly enrolling for a semester every few years, attending for a month, then deciding it's too hard and dropping out. Which I guess does cost money, so at least he can help with that. 

This is my other issue with Jeremy. He's happy to go along with badmouthing Leah, but he has left his daughter in Leah's primary care since she was born. If he truly believes Leah is a bad or dangerous mom (I don't know if he's said things like that recently, but he has in the past), he's an asshole for leaving his daughter in her care without even having visitation as often as he could. And to me, again, it doesn't matter that he never signed up to be a full-time dad/primary parent. He should do what's best for Addie as her situation evolves. If he thinks Leah is on drugs and not providing adequate care, "I never signed up to be a hands-on dad and I'm working to contribute to Addie's college fund." doesn't cut it. At minimum, he should do more to support Leah (if he thinks she's an adequate, but struggling, parent).

[KittyKat133]

I have a feeling that as part of the court order and the visitation agreement that there must be a term that UBT cannot be at pick ups and drop offs. It's probably because he harasses Barbara and instigates fights. 

Jenelle keeps  stressing that she needs to spend "more one on one time"  with Jace. I also have a feeling that this may have been put in the Agreement to limit time with uncle ID channel and weekends at her house she needs to spend more one-on-one time with him possibly limit his interaction of one on one time with David. You know that she would just dump him off on David if it were not put in writing.   It may actually even say something like he's not to be alone with UBT without her supervision.  It probably came from the therapist notes . 

[StatisticalOutlier]

Something just doesn't add up for me with Barb agreeing to the visitation in exchange for being granted permanent custody.  If her case was so strong, and if things really are as bad as they've been presented to us by MTV and various internet sources, then why didn't she force the issue by having the hearing?  Don't get me wrong--I think Jenelle is a horrible person (and that's actually part of my issue--I think Jace never should have been allowed to be around her at all, even before UBT), and UBT is crazy and possibly dangerous, but there has to be a reason Barb believed that a judge could rule against her.  It's not like she's a young black male facing the judicial system with a court-appointed attorney.

Plus, wouldn't Jace have a guardian ad litem appointed for him?  So you have a therapist who says Jace is scared of UBT (but we don't know what else the therapis said), presumably a guardian ad litem who is familiar with the situation, and lots of witnesses, according to Barbara.  Why, in that scenario, would you settle, and choose to put Jace in the position of spending every other weekend there, plus big chunks of time during vacation?

I just wonder if things really aren't as bad as MTV has made us believe.  We know they're crafty with their editing.  It's just that there has to be something else going on, because it looks like this would be a slam-dunk case, and Barb was too scared to see it through.

What I found interesting was that when Barb was waiting for Jenelle to show up with Jace, saying that she'd better be on time or it's contempt of court, and sure enough, Jenelle pulls up on time--that just illustrated to me that Jenelle can follow rules and orders when she knows there will be consequences, and one place where Barb has failed again and again is in following through on her many threats.  I just wonder how different all of this could have been if Barb had ever effectively dealt with Jenelle.  It's a real shame, especially because Barb and Jenelle appear to like fighting, so they're not really suffering the fallout, but Jace is.

[bethster2000]

Hey, Chelsea:

Without using Google, tell us all what "Mr. Brownstone" is about.

Love, GnR fan since Spring 1988

[CofCinci]

27 minutes ago, KittyKat133 said:

I have a feeling that as part of the court order and the visitation agreement that there must be a term that UBT cannot be at pick ups and drop offs. It's probably because he harasses Barbara and instigates fights. 

Yes, I agree. I figure she leaves him a block away from the pick up spot because there is no way he would allow her to drive somewhere without him.  Plus, he believes womenfolk shouldn't be driving. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by CofCinci

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

That's a good point. She constantly has those girls in loads of makeup on Instagram. And once I saw Ali wearing a dress that seemed very low cut for a little girl. In this case, her girls probably would really benefit from a strong male presence in their life. 

What about  Corey?

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

This made me so crazy angry.  Like, really, you are a GnR fan???

Me too. 

[DangerousMinds]

31 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Something just doesn't add up for me with Barb agreeing to the visitation in exchange for being granted permanent custody.  If her case was so strong, and if things really are as bad as they've been presented to us by MTV and various internet sources, then why didn't she force the issue by having the hearing?  Don't get me wrong--I think Jenelle is a horrible person (and that's actually part of my issue--I think Jace never should have been allowed to be around her at all, even before UBT), and UBT is crazy and possibly dangerous, but there has to be a reason Barb believed that a judge could rule against her.  It's not like she's a young black male facing the judicial system with a court-appointed attorney.

Plus, wouldn't Jace have a guardian ad litem appointed for him?  So you have a therapist who says Jace is scared of UBT (but we don't know what else the therapis said), presumably a guardian ad litem who is familiar with the situation, and lots of witnesses, according to Barbara.  Why, in that scenario, would you settle, and choose to put Jace in the position of spending every other weekend there, plus big chunks of time during vacation?

I just wonder if things really aren't as bad as MTV has made us believe.  We know they're crafty with their editing.  It's just that there has to be something else going on, because it looks like this would be a slam-dunk case, and Barb was too scared to see it through.

What I found interesting was that when Barb was waiting for Jenelle to show up with Jace, saying that she'd better be on time or it's contempt of court, and sure enough, Jenelle pulls up on time--that just illustrated to me that Jenelle can follow rules and orders when she knows there will be consequences, and one place where Barb has failed again and again is in following through on her many threats.  I just wonder how different all of this could have been if Barb had ever effectively dealt with Jenelle.  It's a real shame, especially because Barb and Jenelle appear to like fighting, so they're not really suffering the fallout, but Jace is.

I do think Barb is suffering the fallout. Jenelle was an out of control teen, and Barb worked a lot to support her family. What could she have done to effectively discipline Jenelle?

[CaliforniaLove]

Quote

This made me so crazy angry.  Like, really, you are a GnR fan???

Axl probably wore a stars n' stripes bandanna once making Cole a fan, so by default Chelsea is now a fan. 'Murica!

[TeeMo]

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Something just doesn't add up for me with Barb agreeing to the visitation in exchange for being granted permanent custody.  If her case was so strong, and if things really are as bad as they've been presented to us by MTV and various internet sources, then why didn't she force the issue by having the hearing?  Don't get me wrong--I think Jenelle is a horrible person (and that's actually part of my issue--I think Jace never should have been allowed to be around her at all, even before UBT), and UBT is crazy and possibly dangerous, but there has to be a reason Barb believed that a judge could rule against her.  It's not like she's a young black male facing the judicial system with a court-appointed attorney.

Plus, wouldn't Jace have a guardian ad litem appointed for him?  So you have a therapist who says Jace is scared of UBT (but we don't know what else the therapis said), presumably a guardian ad litem who is familiar with the situation, and lots of witnesses, according to Barbara.  Why, in that scenario, would you settle, and choose to put Jace in the position of spending every other weekend there, plus big chunks of time during vacation?

I just wonder if things really aren't as bad as MTV has made us believe.  We know they're crafty with their editing.  It's just that there has to be something else going on, because it looks like this would be a slam-dunk case, and Barb was too scared to see it through.

What I found interesting was that when Barb was waiting for Jenelle to show up with Jace, saying that she'd better be on time or it's contempt of court, and sure enough, Jenelle pulls up on time--that just illustrated to me that Jenelle can follow rules and orders when she knows there will be consequences, and one place where Barb has failed again and again is in following through on her many threats.  I just wonder how different all of this could have been if Barb had ever effectively dealt with Jenelle.  It's a real shame, especially because Barb and Jenelle appear to like fighting, so they're not really suffering the fallout, but Jace is.

I think that Barb foolishly thinks/hopes that if David is ever out of the picture Jenelle will get her act together and be able to be a better presence in Jace's life. Despite all of the BS Jenelle spews about Barb keeping Jace from her, I don't think she was ever going to try to permanently cut her off from Jace.

She told the producer that she settled to save Jenelle the trauma of a trial where she would be dragged through the mud and I think that is the truth. Jenelle is a hideous sociopath but she is still Barb's  daughter and I think Barb holds out hope that someday they will get along again. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by TeeMo

[Cherry Cola]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:28 PM, Mambo Gladys said:

I can't believe Jenelle told Jace that his counselor told them what he said about David.  Now Jace is going to think everything he tells the counselor will get back to Jenelle. Poor kid. 

My thoughts exactly. Jace was probably like...crap? She told you that?! I felt bad for him.  I also think he is scared and reserved around Jenelle.  

 

Leah and her family are crazy, but I can say one thing for sure....little Addie sure loves her daddy.  Her face just lit up when he surprised her on the beach.  So cute!! 

[TheRealT]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Something just doesn't add up for me with Barb agreeing to the visitation in exchange for being granted permanent custody.  If her case was so strong, and if things really are as bad as they've been presented to us by MTV and various internet sources, then why didn't she force the issue by having the hearing?  Don't get me wrong--I think Jenelle is a horrible person (and that's actually part of my issue--I think Jace never should have been allowed to be around her at all, even before UBT), and UBT is crazy and possibly dangerous, but there has to be a reason Barb believed that a judge could rule against her.  It's not like she's a young black male facing the judicial system with a court-appointed attorney.

Plus, wouldn't Jace have a guardian ad litem appointed for him?  So you have a therapist who says Jace is scared of UBT (but we don't know what else the therapis said), presumably a guardian ad litem who is familiar with the situation, and lots of witnesses, according to Barbara.  Why, in that scenario, would you settle, and choose to put Jace in the position of spending every other weekend there, plus big chunks of time during vacation?

I just wonder if things really aren't as bad as MTV has made us believe.  We know they're crafty with their editing.  It's just that there has to be something else going on, because it looks like this would be a slam-dunk case, and Barb was too scared to see it through.

What I found interesting was that when Barb was waiting for Jenelle to show up with Jace, saying that she'd better be on time or it's contempt of court, and sure enough, Jenelle pulls up on time--that just illustrated to me that Jenelle can follow rules and orders when she knows there will be consequences, and one place where Barb has failed again and again is in following through on her many threats.  I just wonder how different all of this could have been if Barb had ever effectively dealt with Jenelle.  It's a real shame, especially because Barb and Jenelle appear to like fighting, so they're not really suffering the fallout, but Jace is.

I think Barb had a very strong case for maintaining primary custody of Jace, but not for terminating Jenelle's parental rights or restricting Jenelle to no or supervised visitation. The strongest direct evidence that the court/CPS has of Jenelle's bad parenting is finding THC in Ensley's system and a social worker smelling marijuana on a home visit while Jenelle and UBT were caring for Ensley, yet Ensley hasn't been removed from their custody. In order for the court to end or limit Jenelle's visitation with Jace, she would have to be found to have done something to harm or endanger Jace or do something so bad to one of her other kids that it was pretty clear/inarguable that Jace was in danger too. UBT is barred from seeing his son, but he has full custody of Maryssa and Ensley and is allowed to parent Kaiser and Jace as well.

[mittsigirl]

What kid Jace's age cares about going on a holiday to bloody St. Thomas?? When Mr. Mittsi and I took a holiday with our kids, we hit every single kid's spot, both going there and coming back, not anyplace that just us adults would have had fun at! Instead of going all the way to St. Thomas, why not instead spend that money on a secure fence around the new swimming hole?? So that no kid will drown?? I'm sure there are kid-friendly places for kids a lot closer to their home, why travel so far? Just does not make any sense to me, but then again, I do not think like Jenelle does.

[GreatKazu]

59 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

I think Barb had a very strong case for maintaining primary custody of Jace, but not for terminating Jenelle's parental rights or restricting Jenelle to no or supervised visitation. The strongest direct evidence that the court/CPS has of Jenelle's bad parenting is finding THC in Ensley's system and a social worker smelling marijuana on a home visit while Jenelle and UBT were caring for Ensley, yet Ensley hasn't been removed from their custody. In order for the court to end or limit Jenelle's visitation with Jace, she would have to be found to have done something to harm or endanger Jace or do something so bad to one of her other kids that it was pretty clear/inarguable that Jace was in danger too. UBT is barred from seeing his son, but he has full custody of Maryssa and Ensley and is allowed to parent Kaiser and Jace as well.

Before the case was settled, she had the power to not allow Jenelle to have any sort of visitation.  She allowed Jace to spend time in Jenelle's care all on her own. There was no visitation in order for Jenelle and she had no rights as a parent to Jace, up until this case was settled. 

The alternative to not allowing Jenelle any contact with Jace is, Barb could have requested that any possible visitation happen only under the condition that Jenelle and UBT be required to submit to random drug-testing. If they chose not to agree, Barb would then go full steam ahead with the custody hearing and allow the judge to decide. I know Jenelle would not see it, but by her not agreeing to a drug-testing, she would have no one to blame but herself for "losing" the case if indeed the judge ordered that Jenelle was prohibited from having visitation at all. 

It is something we will never know because whatever happened behind closed doors, Barb decided to settle the matter. Not sure why since she was successful with being granted full custody of her two other grandchildren. Jenelle was so scared going to court knowing that CPS matter could end it all for her. 

Quote

If he thinks Leah is on drugs and not providing adequate care, "I never signed up to be a hands-on dad and I'm working to contribute to Addie's college fund." doesn't cut it. At minimum, he should do more to support Leah (if he thinks she's an adequate, but struggling, parent).

Jeremy has never said such a thing. It was just someone's perception. Until Jeremy actually says he has no time to be a dad and that it is Leah's job, along with any fears he has that she is a bad mom, I will stick with the idea that he is a father who is out of town working, and he may have a different set of priorities, not that he has no care about seeing his daughter. I think he does what he thinks is best which is Addie spends some of his visitation time with his mother and his side of the family. Divorce or not, Addie needs to be with her father's side of the family as she would if her parents never divorced.

Jeremy also has to pay child support and certain other costs for Addie. Not that I don't think he needed to be court-ordered to care for her. No doubt he would ensure his daughter was cared for and supported, but we know Leah has in the past demanded more money from Cory beyond what he was supposed to pay and I don't see her not doing that to Jeremy. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by GreatKazu

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, TeeMo said:

She told the producer that she settled to save Jenelle the trauma of a trial where she would be dragged through the mud and I think that is the truth. Jenelle is a hideous sociopath but she is still Barb's  daughter and I think Barb holds out hope that someday they will get along again. 

So she wanted to spare Jenelle the trauma of a trial, and is instead putting Jace directly in harm's way by letting him be around UBT?  If so, that's heinous, since Jenelle may be her daughter, but Barb volunteered to raise Jace, so I think she owes a greater responsibility to him, and she may want to get along with Jenelle but that shouldn't be her first priority as long as Jace is in her care.  S

The way we talk around here, Jace is one incident away from death every time he spends the weekend at the land, or with UBT around, and I'm beginning to think that's just not the case.  If it were, why would Barb (and the therapist) agree to it?  I think we're being sold a "story" by MTV and their editing.  Jenelle and UBT are bad people, and Barb and UBT hate each other, but I'm not sure that adds up to Jace being in danger.  And apparently neither does Barb, and maybe the therapist and [possible] guardian ad litem.  So maybe we shouldn't, either, since they know way more about all of it than we do.

[And we know MTV plays fast and loose with the facts.  They had a storyline about Leah's first date since divorcing Jeremy, and we know that's an outright lie.] 

Maybe I'm just putting myself in Barb's shoes.  If I thought someone I'd volunteered to raise would be in harm's way if he went somewhere, I'd make damn sure he didn't go there.  If the judge ordered it, so be it--it's on the judge if something happens.  But there's no way I'd agree to it--I'd fight it every step of the way, and if something did happen would at least know I did everything I could to prevent it.  So either there's not the danger that we think there is, or Barbara doesn't care about it or about feeling guilt if something happens.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Personally, I don't feel like parents just get to announce up front that they are only interested in parenting up to a certain level. If you have a kid and they need more than what you "signed up for," I think you need to do more than you were hoping/expecting. When you have a child, you can't necessarily anticipate exactly what the child will need, but you have to step up to do your best to provide what your child needs regardless.

@TheRealT, personally, as a person and a Sib I agree with you, that whatever your child needs you SHOULD step up. My Mom and I didn't sign up to be changing diapers 30yrs later but we do it (no one certainly asked me if I wanted to be a sister I was a wee toddler lady).  However based on my life experience there are a lot of people that don't. It doesn't make it right, I'm just saying I'm not surprised. 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

I think we're being sold a "story" by MTV and their editing.  Jenelle and UBT are bad people, and Barb and UBT hate each other, but I'm not sure that adds up to Jace being in danger. 

@StatisticalOutlier MTV was not around when David choked and pushed his pregnant girlfriend out of his vehicle. MTV is not responsible for him having violated his restraining order, a violation for which he recently was sentenced to 12 months of probation. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by GreatKazu

[mittsigirl]

13 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

MTV was not around when David choked and pushed his pregnant girlfriend out of his vehicle. MTV is not responsible for him having violated his restraining order, a violation for which he recently was sentenced to 12 months of probation. 

I bet things are 10x worse than we are allowed to see!

They go beyond just being 'bad people'.

In my opinion, anyway.

[ReadMeLattice]

Aubree is a sturdy, cute little girl. I think she's perfectly healthy. 

I hope all that Chelsea stuff was staged though, because not being more on top of the Adam situation right away is ridiculously irresponsible. Taylor seems to be much more on top of it and has been for a while. 

[GreatKazu]

1 minute ago, Lm2162 said:

Aubree is a sturdy, cute little girl. I think she's perfectly healthy. 

I hope all that Chelsea stuff was staged though, because not being more on top of the Adam situation right away is ridiculously irresponsible. Taylor seems to be much more on top of it and has been for a while. 

Likely due to the fact there is no supervised visitation for her child the way Aubree has with her grandparents being the ones supervising the visits. 

[nikita]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

It doesn't sound crazy to me just a different set of priorities. To Jeremy a father's job is to provide financially, and the mother's job is to provide emotional support and physical care-taking. I know a lot of people who grew up this way- they knew their parents loved and cared about them but the day to day nurturing was done by live in grandparents or the nanny (these parents had high paying careers they weren't off getting high or anything like that). 

I do think in 2017 Jeremy SHOULD put in more effort to face time etc, the technology is there. I do think when Addy is older and capable of having more stimulating conversations he might (I did say might) end up communicating with her more. 

Thanks for making me feel less "out there." I definitely understand children raised by others due to their parents' careers. But, man, it seems so bizarre to me to focus so far on a child's future (college fund) at the expense of the here and now.