S02.E01: A Father's Advice

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Randall and Beth debate a big life change; Kate takes the first step in pursuing a new passion; Kevin balances the demands of his career and relationship; Jack and Rebecca deal with the fallout of their big fight.

Second season premiere!

[chitowngirl]

God I've missed this show!

[BoogieBurns]

They waited until the final two minutes to pull the tears out of my eyes. But wow. This is going to be a heck of a season.

[mtlchick]

Random thoughts:

-VAST improvements on older Rebecca.  It's not perfect but it's an upgrade.

-"The Kardashians are not going anywhere.  By next week, there will be a bazillion of them."  On the heels of THREE babies announcements from that family this month, he's correct. 

-This show needs less Toby, and more Opie. 

About Jack's death; I'm going to say...alcoholic, in a drunken stupor left something burning, torching the house and himself. 

Here's to a season full of tissues, daddy issues, adoption issues, ghosts, Miguel (BAH!), "INEEDTOKNOWHOWHEDIES!!!" and Sly Stallone! 

[Neurochick]

Great premiere.

Sad ending.

Getting closer to finding out how Jack died.  Their burned out house at the end....whoa. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Neurochick

[AmandaPanda]

I'm going to have to rewatch this. My TV was going in and out, so I missed a few things in it. :( 

[Katy M]

Does that count as him dying?  He died in a fire?  Did they say something about pills?  Sigh.  Maybe we'll know everything next week.  I won't hold my breath.

I didn't like what seemed to be the theme of "if your wife doesn't want to do something you need to push her into it because hubby knows best."  Maybe I misunderstood Rebecca's advice to Randall.  I'm glad Beth and RAndall are going to go the older child route, assuming that's what they'e going to do.  But, honestly, it still doesn't see like Beth is into it, so they probably shouldn't.  

And, I like that Kate got shot down on blaming her rejection on weight.  

[ShawnaLanne]

Was that a prosthetic leg or a cast on Kevin?

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, mtlchick said:

About Jack's death; I'm going to say...alcoholic, in a drunken stupor left something burning, torching the house and himself. 

SEems reasonable, but how would that be Kate's fault?  Was he cooking her something?

[J0nas3]

Find Kevin. 

[ByaNose]

Great background music & a sad ending. I guess Jack falls asleep in a drunken stupor and the house catches fire. He doesn't smoke so I guess it's a candle or something. I love seeing William. It goes to show you don't die on THIS IS US.

[notcreative enough]

I guess we know how he dies. Or at least part of it. 

Toby is just to much. He expects Kevin and Kate to just stop being connected just because he is dating her now. 

Glad Randall is going for an older kid.

I'm sorry but I was laughing through Jacks drunk speech. 

[Katy M]

Just now, ByaNose said:

It goes to show you don't die on THIS IS US.

Especially if you're Jack.

[debraran]

OMG>..not a fire! I can't imagine how that happened. I feel so sad.  I do like how Randall and his wife are thinking of adopting an older child but I also know it's so the writers can put more drama into the story line. I hope not too much. I think they will be great parents.

All and all, I loved the show but the Jack story line is going to kill me.  : (

I like how Kate's singing was NOT about her weight. It's easy to always fall back on a crutch, one that is true many times, but you have to take responsibility sometimes it's just you. She will shine soon enough.

[Katy M]

Just now, notcreative enough said:

Toby is just to much. He expects Kevin and Kate to just stop being connected just because he is dating her now. 

That reminded me of something I was wondering when he was all upset?  Do you thik if Kevin were her sister, Toby would be as upset by their closeness?

[PepSinger]

I had my family home burned out earlier this year, so damn, seeing that house at the end hurt my soul.

[Spartan Girl]

OH MY GOD.

This fucking show, man. It tricks us into thinking there's going to be a sad ending (Jack saying he needs to best his drinking alone) , fakes us out with a brighter ending (Rebecca insisting that he come home so they can work it out together), only to sucker punch us with the REAL sad ending, flash forwarding to Jack dying in a house fire. Great job, writers.

Does anyone think it's fucked up that NBC decided to air the Menedez brothers show right after this?

[pally]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

SEems reasonable, but how would that be Kate's fault?  Was he cooking her something?

maybe he died saving her

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Does anyone think it's fucked up that NBC decided to air the Menedez brothers show right after this?

Only if it turns out that Randall and Kevin set the fire on purpose.

[ShawnaLanne]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

That reminded me of something I was wondering when he was all upset?  Do you thik if Kevin were her sister, Toby would be as upset by their closeness?

I think there is some testosterone involved yes,  but they are severely co dependant. I think he'd still have problems.

[Lady Calypso]

So...did we just actually find out how Jack died? I mean, a fire to their house is a pretty big damn clue. And the revelation that Kevin is not around so he's the last to find out? Also, he has a broken leg at the time of Jack's death. Hmm...I have some possible thoughts about where this is going, though I assume I'm wrong.

I didn't cry once this episode. Maybe I need to rewatch. I was more annoyed with characters. Or maybe I'm just tired of the emotional manipulation that I personally feel like they're doing. Maybe I just need to get a heart. 

I'm super glad Randall said "screw it" about Rebecca's advice, as her advice was kind of the worst. I really felt for Beth. Her husband just didn't listen to her, and I really disliked when he said something along the lines of her needing to get behind him wanting a child. But he tried to make up for it at the end and I'm glad Beth didn't just go in on what Randall wanted; she found a nice compromise with looking for an older kid to adopt. I still think Randall needs to take a step back and really talk to Beth about this, because it doesn't seem like she's into it. 

Man, Toby needs to shut the fuck up and stuff it. You've known Kate for exactly one year. Kevin's known her for 36 more years than you. He trumps you, every time. His whole "I need to be Kate's number one." No, asshole, you don't just trump Kate's twin just because you'll be her husband. You can share her, but you can't just demote Kevin. God, I'm back to hating Toby.

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, at least Kate learned the right lesson from her failed audition, rather than getting self-defeating again.  

Who was the red haired girl comforting Randall in the Jack-just-died scenes?  Did I totally blank on a character?

I still kind of feel like adopting a kid is something Beth and Randall should postpone a bit -- they (and especially their two young daughters) have been through huge changes in a year (his dad moving in, then passing away, Randall quitting, Beth going back to work).  I'm stressed just thinking about it!  

Edited September 27, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[Straycat80]

Confused...didn't Kevin say to Toby that he was the one who told his sister about their fathers death? Seems at the end it was the other way around. 

[DebbieM4]

If he died in a fire, why were his personal belongings (on the front seat of the car) in perfect condition?

[debraran]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

OH MY GOD.

This fucking show, man. It tricks us into thinking there's going to be a sad ending (Jack saying he needs to best his drinking alone) , fakes us out with a brighter ending (Rebecca insisting that he come home so they can work it out together), only to sucker punch us with the REAL sad ending, flash forwarding to Jack dying in a house fire. Great job, writers.

Does anyone think it's fucked up that NBC decided to air the Menedez brothers show right after this?

I want to see the special on my cable station tomorrow if possible, the after show. I saw a movie last year where a Dad loses his kids in a house fire. I've seen in my area. It is a very disturbing and dramatic death, the loss of home and father/husband. I can't imagine what they will say happened, sleeping pills and he didn't wake up?  Why is Kate guilty?

[ByaNose]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Especially if you're Jack.

So true.

[Spartan Girl]

Just now, DebbieM4 said:

If he died in a fire, why were his personal belongings (on the front seat of the car) in perfect condition?

Smoke inhalation?

[Neurochick]

Just now, Straycat80 said:

Confused...didn't Kevin say to Toby that he was the one who told his sister about their fathers death? Seems at the end it was the other way around. 

No, he said SHE told him their father had died.

[Straycat80]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

No, he said SHE told him their father had died.

Oh ok, thanks! 

 

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Smoke inhalation?

That's a possibility. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was more annoyed with characters. Or maybe I'm just tired of the emotional manipulation that I personally feel like they're doing. Maybe I just need to get a heart. 

Im so sick of the manipulation as a cover for mediocre writing.

When I heard William's voice, I wanted to throw things at the tv.

Randall- jobless, baby obsessed Randall needs to get over his mid-life crisis and not being a troubled child into his mess.

The house fire.... wow.

[AheadofStraight]

Toby continues to be the worst. Going back to watching on dvr so I can FF his scenes.

[Laurie4H]

Am I the only one who doesn't like Beth?  I guess I just don't like the actress.  She isn't natural to me.  All her expressions seem fake.  And she always seems upset.

I know child Kate was heavy but teenage Kate doesn't seem overweight.. I wonder if they will address her weight gain later.

[debraran]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

No, he said SHE told him their father had died.

Do you think his accident was related to Jack?  Or he hurt his leg in real life ;  )     If Kate started the fire, by accident and he tried to help, I can see guilt there.  Milo said he was on for a year and that it took time to sort out the death (unless they changed that) so we will see.

[Quickbeam]

I loved the director at the audition....”Amber?...”

[mtlchick]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Does anyone think it's fucked up that NBC decided to air the Menedez brothers show right after this?

Sort of, considering this was going to  be moved to Thursday until they realize football would REALLY mess up the flow. 

 

5 minutes ago, pally said:

maybe he died saving her

That is pinging really hard for me.  At the beginning of the episode Kate wanted to go with him.  

 

Side note:  there's a dog now?  I think that will come into play. 

[emjohnson03]

Whoa! I just read on Twitter they shot that ending scene just 10 days ago so that it wouldn't get out I"m sure. I'm glad they take such good care of this show. They know it means something and important to so many.

I'm curious what Kevin's broken leg implicates because they made it clear they wanted us to see. Could it be that Jack saved them from the fire and he was in the hospital from burns or something? I feel like it's all connected somehow.

I'm ready to love this show all over again.

Loved the use of U2's cover of  "One" by Damien Rice as well. So good!

[debraran]

Just now, mtlchick said:

 

Side note:  there's a dog now?  I think that will come into play. 

Maybe it's Miguel's?  Or a gift, maybe this all happens much later, and Jack is home for a while.

[Katy M]

Just now, Laurie4H said:

I know child Kate was heavy but teenage Kate doesn't seem overweight.. I wonder if they will address her weight gain later.

Really?  She seems pretty overweight to me.  Not as overweight as she is now, but definitely not in her healthy range.

1 minute ago, Laurie4H said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like Beth?  I guess I just don't like the actress.  She isn't natural to me.  All her expressions seem fake.  And she always seems upset.

I don't mind Beth, but she annoyed me because she apparently didn't feel like she could just tell Rendall she didn't want to adopt a kid.  She was just being snarky the first half of the episode.  And Randall was annoying me, because even though she was being passive-aggressive, she wasn't being all that stealth about it.  How could he be so clueless?  Even the adoption lady picked it up before he did.

[tennisgurl]

I actually thought I was going to make it through an episode of this show without crying...and then the last scene 4 minutes happen. Damn you show! I still need to do things tonight, I cant be stuck here dealing with these feelings all night! Looks like Jack probably died in a fire, possibly caused by him getting drunk and setting something on fire accidentally. Damn, what an awful way to die, be it by smoke inhalation or burning. That just makes everything worse. It looked like things were going so well, and Jack and Rebecca were doing well again, and the WHAM. 

I think Rebecca in her football jersey (with football being such a big part of their relationship history) screaming and crying in her car got me the most. Right in the gut. 

Less tearjerky, but I also liked that the guy at the audition told Kate he didn't want her because she wasn't well trained enough, and not because shes plus sized. Its easy to fall back on "its because I dont look like the other women" for her I think, but here the guy made really good points. Its not how she looks, its that singing is a super hard field to get into, even for people who have been singing every day their whole lives. Just jumping into it and expecting instant success is just ridiculous. 

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, emjohnson03 said:

I'm curious what Kevin's broken leg implicates because they made it clear they wanted us to see. Could it be that Jack saved them from the fire and he was in the hospital from burns or something? I feel like it's all connected somehow.

Kevin was making out with Sophie when everyone else was mourning his death.  Kevin couldn't have been anywhere near that fire.  

[debraran]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Does that count as him dying?  He died in a fire?  Did they say something about pills?  Sigh.  Maybe we'll know everything next week.  I won't hold my breath.

I didn't like what seemed to be the theme of "if your wife doesn't want to do something you need to push her into it because hubby knows best."  Maybe I misunderstood Rebecca's advice to Randall.  I'm glad Beth and RAndall are going to go the older child route, assuming that's what they'e going to do.  But, honestly, it still doesn't see like Beth is into it, so they probably shouldn't.  

And, I like that Kate got shot down on blaming her rejection on weight.  

I agree, I need to relpay the pill part again. I thought he might have meant to help someone sleep?

I thought it was funny how Randall thought he never pushed anything on his wife, "they adjusted" She just said to his Dad's ghost, how Manny and him got dumped at her house, no discussion.  lol  We all have our reality.

[bettername2come]

This fucking show! Dammit! Dammit! Did Jack at least die saving someone? Kate? Kate blames herself for his death right? Did she do something stupid and need saving? How much time do we have until Jack dies? Are the twins currently 15 or 16? I need more Jack!

Love that Toby called out the co-dependence of the twins, but I also love that they're not about to break that bond, because there is beauty in their connection. I loved Jack giving Kevin that "yes, you can go after your sister" look when Kate left the table, but I think teenage Kate and Kev have just a little too much chemistry (I've seen a promo with her head on his shoulder way too many times). Most of Kevin's kindest, best moments are with Kate. I loved that Kate showed growth and realized (again) that she needed to be doing this herself. Love that Kate got shot down for being a lesser singer and not her weight. And I love her attitude when she realized that the problem was something she could work toward. Glad for Kevin that Sophie went to California, but I've been rewatching Smallville and now I seriously wish Sophie were played Allison Mack or someone else he has more chemistry with. 

I was totally Team Beth in their conversations. The older child route is more appropriate for today and for this family. You can't push a child onto someone that way. Jack got lucky that worked with Rebecca and I like to think there was more conversation than what we've seen so far. And how adorable is it that Beth smokes imaginary cigarettes when she's upset? I like these little quirks they've given her. 

Did the twins not talk to Randall on their birthday? Would it have killed them to call or at least reference a call?

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

Does anyone think it's fucked up that NBC decided to air the Menedez brothers show right after this?

I didn't even think of that but damn, that's true. 

1 minute ago, mtlchick said:

Side note:  there's a dog now?  I think that will come into play. 

I assumed that was Miguel's dog, but maybe Kate went to rescue a new dog and Jack went to rescue her? I'm also pretty sure the redhead is Miguel's kid/Randall's girlfriend. 

[SlovakPrincess]

I assume we'll take most of the season to figure out how Kevin's leg got broken and if it's connected to the chain of events leading to Jack dying and why Kate blames herself.   

I am hoping we get some lighter flashbacks, too, though.  My favorite episodes from last year were the more subtle ones about the family relationships when they were kids.

[Laurie4H]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Really?  She seems pretty overweight to me.  Not as overweight as she is now, but definitely not in her healthy range

Her face a bit chubby but nothing drastic.

The one thIng that bothers me about this show as several others are the monologues.  Randall's perfection speech and Rebecca's speech to Jack at the end.  People don't deliver such contrived speeches like that like.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Did the twins not talk to Randall on their birthday? Would it have killed them to call or at least reference a call?

Good point. They should have had a call and a "Big Three" chant.  It is their bday after all.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

She just said to his Dad's ghost, how Manny and him got dumped at her house, no discussion.  lol  We all have our reality.

I thought that was a flashback to Beth talking to William before he and Randall departed on their trip.  Her hair was different.

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I'm also pretty sure the redhead is Miguel's kid/Randall's girlfriend. 

Agreed.

[DebbieM4]

Toby was beyond annoying.  There was no reason that Kevin should have had to spell out that he and his sister have been through their entire lives together!  

I wish I didn't dislike Mandy Moore so much.  I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I think she's a terrible actress.  She takes me out of the story every time.  I don't like her as an actress and I don't like Rebecca as a character.  (The advice Rebecca gave to Randall was horrible.  I've learned never to push someone into something they don't want to do.  It rarely ends well.  Especially in a marriage, which in my mind is supposed to be a partnership, and especially when it comes to something like adopting a child.)

Other than that, I really do like this show.   Tonight wasn't perfect, but had some good moments, and I'm very glad it's back.  :-)

[WhosThatGirl]

I can’t even explain. This is the worst than anything I was thinking. I don’t even have words for this ending of the House Fire being the cause of death.

Also Rebeccas anguished cry at seeing the burned down house. God.

[sigmaforce86]

As far as knowing how Jack dies right now, having that revealed, I just want to repeat oh my god over & over.

timeline is pretty set now but I have two thoughts on the broken leg / Kate tells Kevin thing.  1 it's a hint for future episodes, if/when we see Kevin break a leg we know the fire/death is close.  Only downside is we already know their ages and that they watched the Steelers game so another hint isn't needed.  2 the one I think more likely Jack is injured in the fire (burns, smoke inhalation, head or internal injuries) but he lives for days or weeks then dies which explains why the kids were with Miguel but Kevin was on a date.   

Also kudos to the show getting Ron Howard back "even the tennis ball was tearing up" :-)

[DebbieM4]

14 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Smoke inhalation?

Maybe.  Or maybe he didn't die in the fire.  Maybe there's another explanation.