S04.E11: It's Love, Actually

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Liza pursues a new relationship as Kelsey revisits an old one. Diana learns the truth about Richard. Lauren encourages Josh to follow his heart.

[bilgistic]

Since Empirical was able to bring on Zane/bring back Edward L.L. Moore, maybe they can finally hire an assistant for Diana and let Liza be an associate editor full time--and be paid for it. Grrrr.

I am so happy for Diana. Richard is a garbage person.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

Since Empirical was able to bring on Zane/bring back Edward L.L. Moore, maybe they can finally hire an assistant for Diana and let Liza be an associate editor full time--and be paid for it. Grrrr.

I am so happy for Diana. Richard is a garbage person.

I'm glad that Liza talked Kelsey out of hastily jumping ship because Kelsey was irritated with Charles undercutting Millennial. However, they need to do something about the Millennial and Empirical divide. Should Millennial be moving in a more mature direction this quickly? What is the typical Millennial reader? Where do they ultimately want the Millennial imprint to go? Furthermore, Kelsey and fake 27 year old Liza aren't really dialed into the younger half of the Millennial generation. I hate Caitlin, but she might actually be instrumental in helping Liza and Kelsey understand younger millennials.

Richard is a manipulative garbage person. I'm glad that his ex recognized his bullshit. Diana is lucky to be rid of him.

Liza, you are not in love with Charles. Liza likes him. Liza is attracted to him. Loving someone means that you know the absolute worst parts of them and still love them regardless. Charles doesn't know shit about Liza and really she doesn't know shit about him either.

I've always felt like Charles gives off half-assed vibes when it comes to running Empirical. So much of his scenes actually running the business seem like he's doing it out of obligation and legacy. I'm increasingly of the mindset that maybe he's ideally suited to just being an editor.

Edited September 7, 2017 by HunterHunted

[voiceover]

Though it was obviously the right decision, I felt a pang for Diana.

Then I remembered: Charles is single too.  

And I felt better.

[HunterHunted]

I'm still a bit bothered by Liza's divorce, which the show seems to have forgotten isn't final. Liza was on her way to sign the papers with her correct date of birth when she got into the accident on Diana's citibike. Her ex came to the hospital and tore up the papers. He then went to that seminar and tried to win Liza back. She said "no", went to Josh, he rejected her, and Liza told Kelsey the truth. At no point has the show brought up Liza signing the papers again.

[Adultosaurus]

I just want Liza to come clean with Charles and have it all wrapped up in a pretty bow.  I don't care about hot Josh anymore, and I'd like for the whole facade to blow away and have at least 3 episodes where Liza and Charles can come together and make it all better.  I doubt the show can continue unless they provide some joy somewhere.

[voiceover]

Here's a weird little crossover that proves I've got too much time on my hands lately. 

I've been bingeing on a few 70s series this summer.  Richard Masur (the Edward Moore/George Martin character) is David, the main character's Season 1 bf on One Day  at a Time.  And Jay the editor puts me in mind of Masur's sweet, supportive partner on that show.  The Circle of Life.

Like I said: too much time on my hands.

Here's a less weirdo observation.  Or rather, question:

I guessed who the new editor would be by the end of Kelsey's lunch with Redmond.   Where the hell is THIS gonna go?

p.s. Not enough Maggie!

Edited September 7, 2017 by voiceover

[Armchair Critic]

50 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Richard Masur (the Edward Moore/George Martin character) is David, the main character's Season 1 bf on One Day  at a Time.

I know he has been in many things but to me he will always be David, used to watch that show after school in the late 70's/early 80's and I wanted to be Barbara.

[HunterHunted]

Shut up Jay's mom who needed to get knee surgery. I grew up in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh's main industries are health care/medicine, biotechnology, robotics, higher education, and banking. It has a top 20 medical school and the hospitals associated with the school are also in the top 20 in the US. Additionally, most of the highest ranked best known hospitals in the US aren't in New York. The Mayo Clinic is in Rochester Minnesota. The Cleveland Clinic is in Cleveland Ohio. Johns Hopkins is in Baltimore Maryland. M.D. Anderson is in Houston Texas. 

I'm just irritated because this is one of those dumb New York is amazing everywhere else is a one road cow town jokes that Darren Star loves. They never made much sense during Sex and the City. They make even less sense now because Darren seems to think that any place that isn't New York is Mayberry or the town from Deliverance. 

[Victura]

31 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Shut up Jay's mom who needed to get knee surgery. I grew up in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh's main industries are health care/medicine, biotechnology, robotics, higher education, and banking. It has a top 20 medical school and the hospitals associated with the school are also in the top 20 in the US. Additionally, most of the highest ranked best known hospitals in the US aren't in New York. The Mayo Clinic is in Rochester Minnesota. The Cleveland Clinic is in Cleveland Ohio. Johns Hopkins is in Baltimore Maryland. M.D. Anderson is in Houston Texas. 

I'm just irritated because this is one of those dumb New York is amazing everywhere else is a one road cow town jokes that Darren Star loves. They never made much sense during Sex and the City. They make even less sense now because Darren seems to think that any place that isn't New York is Mayberry or the town from Deliverance. 

I don't know anything about Pittsburgh, but I have to say I rolled my eyes at the idea that one would go to New York for knee surgery and stay after to recover, because it's the absolute last place I would want to be if I'm not very mobile. That is, unless one had tons of money for a private driver, which perhaps Jay's mom does have? There are some good hospitals in New York, sure, but it'd be quite the hassle to get around.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Victura

[Lady Writer]

How did Nico get that tear to fall from his eye?! There wasn't even a cut! I rewound to check that out. That's acting!

I wonder who Richard was planning on paying for that apartment? Does he pay Diana rent? But I guess if he gets paid as much as his ex-wife does that he makes a ton more than Diana.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Victura said:

I don't know anything about Pittsburgh, but I have to say I rolled my eyes at the idea that one would go to New York for knee surgery and stay after to recover, because it's the absolute last place I would want to be if I'm not very mobile. That is, unless one had tons of money for a private driver, which perhaps Jay's mom does have? There are some good hospitals in New York, sure, but it'd be quite the hassle to get around.

New York is actually a fairly decent place to recover because you can get so many things delivered--food, toiletries, household items, and other groceries. Assuming Jay is in a building with an elevator, it shouldn't be too hard to get his mom in and out of the building. He can get an Uber, Lyft, or a town car to take his mom wherever she needs to go.

6 minutes ago, Lady Writer said:

How did Nico get that tear to fall from his eye?! There wasn't even a cut! I rewound to check that out. That's acting!

There wasn't a cut, but I did appreciate the tear.

Quote

I wonder who Richard was planning on paying for that apartment? Does he pay Diana rent? But I guess if he gets paid as much as his ex-wife does that he makes a ton more than Diana.

Richard seems to have contributed by cleaning and cooking, but if he had been paying toward the rent or mortgage he'd have probably played that card.

Edited September 7, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Lady Writer]

2 hours ago, Adultosaurus said:

I just want Liza to come clean with Charles and have it all wrapped up in a pretty bow.  I don't care about hot Josh anymore, and I'd like for the whole facade to blow away and have at least 3 episodes where Liza and Charles can come together and make it all better.  I doubt the show can continue unless they provide some joy somewhere.

It provides me joy!

As far as I'm concerned, she's blabbed to too many people already. If everybody knows her age the conceit gets ruined, and the show becomes pointless. To me the only time she should be coming clean is when they know for sure they're at the end of the series. And then everybody can get killed off by a giant falling beam.

I'd take Josh if he lost the tats.

I can't believe it's the end of the season already!

[Lady Writer]

19 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

There wasn't a cut, but I did appreciate the tear.

I meant a camera cut, if that wasn't clear. (Not sure if you thought I was talking about a physical cut or not.) I rewound to see if he had a chance to put drops in his eye or something, but it looked like an unbroken take.

Maybe he was crying because he was like, "Shit, now that Claire's leaving maybe they're going to write me off the show." Maybe he was all Joey Tribbiani trying not to step into the elevator shaft.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Lady Writer

[HunterHunted]

I knew what you meant.

[Ailianna]

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Shut up Jay's mom who needed to get knee surgery. I grew up in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh's main industries are health care/medicine, biotechnology, robotics, higher education, and banking. It has a top 20 medical school and the hospitals associated with the school are also in the top 20 in the US. Additionally, most of the highest ranked best known hospitals in the US aren't in New York. The Mayo Clinic is in Rochester Minnesota. The Cleveland Clinic is in Cleveland Ohio. Johns Hopkins is in Baltimore Maryland. M.D. Anderson is in Houston Texas. 

I'm just irritated because this is one of those dumb New York is amazing everywhere else is a one road cow town jokes that Darren Star loves. They never made much sense during Sex and the City. They make even less sense now because Darren seems to think that any place that isn't New York is Mayberry or the town from Deliverance. 

I've never seen Sex and the City, but I do know a lot of New Yorkers really feel that way.  I once lived on 129th street, and none of my friends would visit because they said I lived in "fucking Canada".  I'm not sure why if she's like that she would live in Pittsburgh, but there are a lot of people, both who grew up in Manhattan and who moved there to be living in Manhattan, who think NYC is the best of the best of everything.  Definitely not true of everyone, but I thought Jay was both mocking his mom a little for feeling that way, and the show was acknowledging that part of NYC psyche.

[luna1122]

Okay, I totally loved Diana's 'she's the boss' cape thingy.

I got distracted by other things while watching last nite, and kind of missed what made Diana dump Richard, but I don't really care, I'm just glad she did.

Oh, Liza. You're not in love with Charles. You don't even really know Charles. But whatever. I loved Jay's comment about Charles...I don't remember the exact wording, but he called him a Brooks Brothers mannequin or something, and said he was on his way over, and instructed Liza to 'act younger'. Ha.

[Aulty]

Jay is so nice, he is like the female equivalent of Maggie. He's grown on me this episode. I wonder if he will turn now that he knows about Charles. They really did a lousy job with the build-up if they think we buy that Liza is madly in love with Charles. Attracted to, yes, but head over heels? nope, not from where I'm standing.

Diana is amazing, I'm so glad she finally got rid of Richard, I knew right away that he was a leech only looking for a place to stay. Diana is the boss! I know I keep repeating myself but: get Diana and Maggie into the same scene already, they are a cynical Waldorf and Statler waiting to happen.

We all know whats coming re Josh/Claire, don't we?

Ugh Zayne. We get so little of Maggie and Diana as it is, do they really have to throw in another big ego? I hope that storyline does not take away too much from other characters. and ugh Charles' wife (she looked great in that purple velvet dress though).

Edited September 7, 2017 by Aulty

[hankthetank]

I can't stand this Claire storyline. The accent is annoying. She is annoying. It's all so forced and fake, I'm waiting for her to get caught in some weird lie and she's not really irish and not really at the end of her visa. 

This season is starting to lose me between Kelsey living with Josh and the storyline with Charle's wife. They could have done better. 

[dmc]

I knew Richard was sketchy-glad Diana got away from him.

Why would Charles hire Zane knowing about the stolen phone and the twitter battle without so much as heads up to Kelsey?

OH Liza- sometimes it's okay to be alone to figure stuff out...stop with Jay, Charles, Josh and company and just decide what YOU want before you make any moves.

Josh SIGH...Josh is a romantic and sometimes this is a negative- he too just gets so lost in things that he doesn't think wisely...he just met this girl...

Pauline's book about dumping family is a HIT-that must have been a hell of an editorial job done by Liza...also I would pissed if they took my book after I worked on it for the imprint...

 

Team Diana but I  am for none of the romantic relationships

[gesundheit]

Yes, finally a great Diana episode! Miriam Shor nailed those scenes. Didn't care about much else. Pretty much watch for Diana, Maggie, and sometimes Lauren or Josh.

[MortysCleaningLady]

Jay, call me.  I'm glad he is displaying emotional maturity and not being strung along.  

 

The only other character I enjoyed last night was Diana.   She's a favorite, but when she grew her backbone and threw out Richard and his brat, I was thrilled.

[rho]

8 hours ago, Lady Writer said:

How did Nico get that tear to fall from his eye?! There wasn't even a cut! I rewound to check that out. That's acting!

I wonder who Richard was planning on paying for that apartment? Does he pay Diana rent? But I guess if he gets paid as much as his ex-wife does that he makes a ton more than Diana.

Diana says they're above the East 90s which puts the apartment in Harlem. That makes it significantly cheaper than what Diana is paying on the UES. Honestly, just glad she dumped him. She can do so much better, like the sexy contractor from next door ;)

[bilgistic]

9 hours ago, Lady Writer said:

How did Nico get that tear to fall from his eye?! There wasn't even a cut! I rewound to check that out. That's acting!

I thought it was contrived. Here's a tear to show how sad Josh feels. We know.

3 hours ago, dmc said:

Why would Charles hire Zane knowing about the stolen phone and the twitter battle without so much as heads up to Kelsey?

Yes! Charles wanted to fire Kelsey over the phone/Twitter debacle. Why would he hire the doof involved with it? And I think Zane is the epitome of "tryhard".

[allonsyalice]

Diana in that dress though! and she's just tearing Richard down and it was so great and it was so amazing.

I think Zane is cute, but he needs to be nowhere near empirical.

Liza's declaration of love for Charles seems.....out of the blue. I mean, I guess i understand and im glad theyve ramped up the charles/liza thing this season (even though pauline the bore is hanging around) but i guess it works. Idk im gonna have to rewatch.

lmao at Kelsey to Lauren: "You need to get a job" i feel it.

I agree with the majority here: Diana was the MVP of the episode 

[dmc]

21 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I thought it was contrived. Here's a tear to show how sad Josh feels. We know.

Yes! Charles wanted to fire Kelsey over the phone/Twitter debacle. Why would he hire the doof involved with it? And I think Zane is the epitome of "tryhard".

YEP!

[thesupremediva1]

I want to root for Liza and Charles, but I can't. He's a waffler, and he knows nothing of her true identity. 

Diana is always the best part of  the episode. She's the only character I truly identify with. The rest are 2D at best - this season, at least.

Kelsey is a true millennial: always mad at the boss, touting her own accomplishments, and ready to jump ship the minute she isn't being patted on the head as the golden child. It's annoying, but it's real, and I can at least appreciate how seriously she takes her career. 

Jay is incredible. Maybe he and Diana can end up together?

Charles's wife is an awful character. They haven't done a serviceable job making any aspect of her arc believable. 

Sorry, but the last scene contained the worst I've ever seen of Sutton Foster's acting. That felt like a bad school play. Maybe she knows there's no way Liza can really love Charles and had no clear way to play it.

[voiceover]

4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I got distracted by other things while watching last nite, and kind of missed what made Diana dump Richard

 I watched more closely the second time, and it still felt like a scene was missing.

Something like: Richard's son dropped out of school, and he didn't want to tell his mother, and he got Richard to go along with it, and Richard wasn't upfront with Diana about it.

This feels like a comment on New York real estate, as much as anything. 

And Charles's ex still annoys the crap out of me.  

[gesundheit]

And I know we've discussed this before, but HOW does Kelsey keep her job? She was just flat-out rolling her eyes at her bosses in their meeting. I would find all of it more sympathetic if she kept her composure and then privately talked later about how undervalued she felt, but she's just flat out disrespectful to the people who employ her. Who does that?

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Diana was absolutely stunning in that red gown.  Good for her.

I'm on team Charles, and I must say that he looked hot, hot, hot, in his Manhattan home.

Quote

Jay is incredible. Maybe he and Diana can end up together?

Hadn't thought about that, but I love it.  Great idea.

[BabyVegas]

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Kelsey is a true millennial: always mad at the boss, touting her own accomplishments, and ready to jump ship the minute she isn't being patted on the head as the golden child. It's annoying, but it's real, and I can at least appreciate how seriously she takes her career. 

Look at it another way. Kelsey knows that she's in a cutthroat business, facing a lot of competition from plenty of people who would happily take her job, and nobody will take care of her. She's always looking to make herself more valuable and on the lookout for an opportunity that will put her ahead of the game. It's part of the Millenial mentality that you have to be a shark because there isn't enough for everyone.

I really like the Jay and Liza friendship. I have a hard time taking him seriously because at the end of every line I keep imagining that he's going to do a quarter turn and end his sentence with "...Jon." I root for Liza and Charles because I'm extremely emotionally manipulable, but I did like how she could just relax around Jay. I kind of hope he doesn't disappear entirely? But I'm not sure if it would be a good idea.

I'm also really enjoy Diana. Miriam Shor hits all the beats to make her both sympathetic and comedic, but the story rings very true, that a woman at Diana's level of power might have thought that a partner was in the cards for her.

Edited September 7, 2017 by BabyVegas

[mikem]

I was pleasantly surprised that the show called Richard on manipulating Diana into staying in her apartment.  When Richard moved in last season, it seemed very manipulative at the time, but Diana didn't seem bothered by it, and it wasn't brought up again in future episodes.  There weren't even hints about it.  After he moved in, the show presented Richard and Diana's relationship as being a good one.  He was shown in a good light, supporting her, and the Ethan part seemed more that Richard was clueless than manipulative.  But of course both things were manipulative, and Richard got what was coming to him.  It's a credit to the writers that they didn't make Richard all good or all bad, and also that they let his manipulations at moving in stay unremarked upon for an entire season.

I'm having trouble thinking of another example where a show had a recurring character's actions lie fallow for so long.   Can anyone think of examples?

Speaking of all good or all bad, Jay would be much more interesting as a character if he wasn't so one-dimensionally good.

[MissEwa]

I can totally understand why Liza and Kelsey would be annoyed about Charles wanting to take Marriage Vacation back from Millenial, but I still can't understand how it ended up there in the first place - or how it's generating so much buzz with anyone under the age of... 40? How many 20-somethings really want to read about a bored UES publishing wife leaving her husband for a year? Or... doing anything, for that matter, unless it's biting and satirical? I'm and married and have kids and *I* find the concept completely dull. 

Also this show is coming up against the same problem that every single show comes up against when it tries to depict 'good writing', in that the bits we get to see/hear are so bad the idea of it being considered remarkably good are laughable. I'm all for 'show, don't tell', but I feel like this is one case where just telling is better. 

[HunterHunted]

11 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I've never seen Sex and the City, but I do know a lot of New Yorkers really feel that way.  I once lived on 129th street, and none of my friends would visit because they said I lived in "fucking Canada".  I'm not sure why if she's like that she would live in Pittsburgh, but there are a lot of people, both who grew up in Manhattan and who moved there to be living in Manhattan, who think NYC is the best of the best of everything.  Definitely not true of everyone, but I thought Jay was both mocking his mom a little for feeling that way, and the show was acknowledging that part of NYC psyche.

I feel the same way about traveling to see people across the river (the Allegheny, Monongahela, and Youghiogheny rivers unite in downtown Pittsburgh to form the Ohio River) in Pittsburgh. The chances that Jay's mom grew up in the US are pretty slim to none. Most of the really old Indian-American communities are on the west coast. They were prohibited from becoming naturalized citizens until the middle of the last century. They were also limited in how many could easily they could emigrate to the US. Only dozens were allowed into the country. Restrictions were loosened in the 60s. Many more began coming to study in the US. The only way I could see Jay's mom having the mindest is if she, like my own mother, studied in New York, but ended up in Pittsburgh because of marriage. However, my mom spent more than a decade in New York going to school and working. Jay's mom only has about 5 or 6 years free before she has to get married and give birth to Jay. I suppose they could have lived in New York for a while and moved to Pittsburgh later. I'm devoting entirely too much thought to a dumb throwaway line.

4 hours ago, mikem said:

Speaking of all good or all bad, Jay would be much more interesting as a character if he wasn't so one-dimensionally good.

I agree with you. It seemed when Charles tried warn Liza away from Jay that Charles was hinting that Jay might be gay, but I'd much rather see him as a playboy attempting to finally settle down. Had I not just watched 2 seasons of the Real Housewives of New York where half the cast lost their minds trying to snag the same underwhelming 50 year old bachelor, the idea that Jay would be an in demand commodity would have seemed ridiculous. But seriously Jay has a good job. He's well educated and well connected. He's never married and a decent guy. He should be beating women off with a stick. I wish they hadn't pushed this great love story with Liza and Charles because it might have been interesting to see Liza negotiate a relationship with with a person who by all appearances is an adult on her level, but he's never had to compromise in a relationship. Additionally, he's at a different stage in his career so he doesn't quite appreciate why Liza would waste time on things like Pitchfest even if it did yield Marriage Vacation. There is the potential for compelling stories in the Jay and Liza pairing, but I fear the show has Charles tunnel vision. 

How funny would it have been if Jay had been the guy involved Diana's Harper Collins pillow talk incident.

3 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Also this show is coming up against the same problem that every single show comes up against when it tries to depict 'good writing', in that the bits we get to see/hear are so bad the idea of it being considered remarkably good are laughable. I'm all for 'show, don't tell', but I feel like this is one case where just telling is better. 

After having endured much worse efforts with The L Word, Gossip Girl, and Sex and the City, I thought this wasn't that bad.

Edited September 7, 2017 by HunterHunted

[msani19]

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Liza, you are not in love with Charles. Liza likes him. Liza is attracted to him. Loving someone means that you know the absolute worst parts of them and still love them regardless. Charles doesn't know shit about Liza and really she doesn't know shit about him either.

Every single part of this. My eyes just managed to unroll themselves after I saw that scene. They went from 0 to 100 with the way they are trying to push this relationship and it's killing any desire I had to see them together. Granted that was very little, to begin with, but at this point, it's zero. 

What's the name of Charle's wife? She's made no impression on me other than utter befuddlement. The actress is playing the part so badly. I think it's the writing because the woman has no purpose other than to repeatedly tell everyone how the book is bringing her family back to her...

[MissEwa]

11 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

After having endured much worse efforts with The L Word, Gossip Girl, and Sex and the City, I thought this wasn't that bad.

Ha! I remember watching Beverly Hills 90210 and having to endure Brandon Walsh's "brilliant writing" on a regular basis. This isn't the worst I've heard but there's no way it's winning a Pulitzer. 

[holly4755]

Ilike Jay as he is, I could see where he would be attractive to women, even young women. I dated older guys and younger guys, good looking and not so good looking, but they all had the same thing in common smarts and passion for something hobby or job and hopefully me.   

[voiceover]

2 minutes ago, msani19 said:

What's the name of Charle's wife? She's made no impression on me other than utter befuddlement. The actress is playing the part so badly. I think it's the writing because the woman has no purpose other than to repeatedly tell everyone how the book is bringing her family back to her...

I think I even posted in last week's ep thread a similar reason for always referring to her as "Charles's ex".  But I am so little invested in her, I can't be bothered to go look.  

You've certainly hit upon one of the reasons she's a bore.  But how she's been so quick to declare Liza her Best Bestie, forces me to assume that there's something fishy here.

Oh please Show Gods; I'm beggin'. 

[HunterHunted]

It's Pauline, but this is probably appropriate given how memorable she is:

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

I can totally understand why Liza and Kelsey would be annoyed about Charles wanting to take Marriage Vacation back from Millenial, but I still can't understand how it ended up there in the first place

Pauline approached Millennial because she thought she could do an end run around Charles that way. It was dumb she went to an imprint connected with him in the first place, but whatever. The book was good enough even Charles knew it was worth publishing, and since Pauline insisted that Liza edit it and Liza is an editor at Millennial, there you go.

[Ailianna]

I'm quite sure the only reason Zane was hired was to bring E.L. Moore back to Empirical.  They kind of spelled it out in the subtext, if you will.  The editor clause meant he *could* follow his editor, who was fired from the new publisher.  So Zane tried to go solo, and that was a no go with the big fish.  But, if he went to Empirical, where Moore was published for many years, Moore could go back there, probably get the hand holding he was used to, harass Liza again, and get a bit more money by saying he would only use the clause if he got a pay bump.  It works out for everyone (although it means Zane isn't his own boss yet and it forces Charles to at least temporarily work with someone he might not otherwise wish to associate with).  And later, if Zane doesn't work out, Empirical can get rid of him, and Moore can choose to stay at Empirical again.  Long term working out too.

[MissLucas]

Diane in that stunning red gown putting her chocker/bow thingy on in the hallway mirror was probably the best thing of this whole season.

I know (or at least I used to be pretty sure) that Charles and Liza are endgame. But the longer they drag this out the worse it gets. I'm particularly annoyed how the writing sidelines the girls - who are obviously okay with Mum walking in and out of their lives. We never get to see any real interactions between her and her daughters. Were they bitter or just happy that she's back? Or both? And are they now assuming that Mum and Dad will be back together? What happens if inevitably that's not going to happen and their favorite babysitter is suddenly taking over for good from Mum? Tons of emotional issues surround this plot but I guess as long as we don't get to see the girls too often and none of the characters talk about them or to them about what's going on nobody will notice. At this point I'm starting to root again for Josh and Liza.

Diana and Jay could actually work - that's a great idea.

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Pauline approached Millennial because she thought she could do an end run around Charles that way. It was dumb she went to an imprint connected with him in the first place, but whatever. The book was good enough even Charles knew it was worth publishing, and since Pauline insisted that Liza edit it and Liza is an editor at Millennial, there you go.

Oh, I get the logistics - although I assume that she went to an imprint connected to him on purpose - but I'm still baffled that Liza heard the pitch and thought 'yeah, 20-somethings will eat. this. up." and that Kelsey agreed. Liza maybe, because she is actually 41, but I feel like there's no way Kelsey (even if she liked the writing) wouldn't have just palmed it off to Empirical in the first place. And yeah, *then* I could see Pauline wanting Liza to edit it and it being a thing. 

 

I know, I know... plot device. 

[Lyinfait]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Sorry, but the last scene contained the worst I've ever seen of Sutton Foster's acting. That felt like a bad school play. Maybe she knows there's no way Liza can really love Charles and had no clear way to play it.

This. I don't believe have ever done more than lurk but that moment not only pulled me from the scene but from the woodwork just to post. I don't believe Liza loves Charles and nothing about Sutton's acting in that scene sold it. It was really bad. 

[retrograde]

If Liza actually WAS in her 20s, I'd believe that she believes she's in love with Charles. But not a divorced (or whatever) mother in her 40s. 

In the same way the show has never really established why Charles and Liza are so head-over-heels for each other (beyond the physical) it definitely hasn't sold me on Charles going from being mad at Pauline for abandoning their kids for a whole year one week - to holding hands with her out in public the next week.  

Also, it's rare that I want to see more kids on a TV show, but given Pauline's absence is such a big plot point, I actually would like to see and hear more from the daughters. Surely they have some strong feelings about everything that's been going on?

[dubbel zout]

24 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I know, I know... plot device. 

Yep. 

[betha]

Quote

I know (or at least I used to be pretty sure) that Charles and Liza are endgame. But the longer they drag this out the worse it gets. I'm particularly annoyed how the writing sidelines the girls - who are obviously okay with Mum walking in and out of their lives. We never get to see any real interactions between her and her daughters. Were they bitter or just happy that she's back? Or both? And are they now assuming that Mum and Dad will be back together? What happens if inevitably that's not going to happen and their favorite babysitter is suddenly taking over for good from Mum? Tons of emotional issues surround this plot but I guess as long as we don't get to see the girls too often and none of the characters talk about them or to them about what's going on nobody will notice. At this point I'm starting to root again for Josh and Liza.

This has been driving me crazy. In what world would Charles just let his wife waltz back into the lives of the daughters she abandoned? How is a "marriage vacation" story cute at all when she ABANDONED HER. CHILDREN. It isn't cute. It isn't eat, pray, love. It is horrible. There is no indication she was in touch at all for a year, but suddenly she is just telling them bedtime stories and that is ok? This has been hanging over this entire storyline. It honestly has made me wonder if any of these writers have children, or know children, or were children.

[voiceover]

I still don't feel like we got a suitable -- or ANY -- explanation as to why Moore jumped ship in the first place.  Yeahyeah more money, sure...but all those years at Empirical, and he doesn't give them a chance to match it?  Esp since there was no hint of any kind of long-simmering feud, or sudden horrendous giving of offense. (Or was there & I missed it?)

Maybe the publishers told him, We'll give you all this money, but you have to say yes right now!  

But that's making me write all this offscreen filler in my head, and that's not my job.

[dubbel zout]

Authors don't always have logical or tangible reasons for jumping ship. Sometimes they just want a change. 

[Angelus82]

13 hours ago, betha said:

This has been driving me crazy. In what world would Charles just let his wife waltz back into the lives of the daughters she abandoned? How is a "marriage vacation" story cute at all when she ABANDONED HER. CHILDREN. It isn't cute. It isn't eat, pray, love. It is horrible. There is no indication she was in touch at all for a year, but suddenly she is just telling them bedtime stories and that is ok? This has been hanging over this entire storyline. It honestly has made me wonder if any of these writers have children, or know children, or were children.

I completely agree. I have two young girls and I couldn't imagine just up and leaving them without any word for a year (I'm assuming Pauline wasn't in contact). My husband would not allow me to just step right back into our life and rightfully so. That would be so confusing not to mention hurtful to your children.  I totally get if you needed space from your husband in order to find yourself but you can't just quit being a parent.