S07.E07: The Dragon And The Wolf

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

LF, it seems to me, was looking to cause chaos and find ways to use it to his advantage. He presumably figured by setting two of the Great Houses of Westeros against each other, there would be opportunity there. Maybe Ned would be killed to allow him to finally hook up with Cat. Maybe the Lannisters would fall out of favor, or he could drop the news that Cersei and Jaimie were boning and that none of Robert's supposed legit children were his. 

I think that is absolutely right. He still hoped that Cat would choose him when he delivered Ned's body. Despite his love for Cat (which is really more of an obsession), I got the feeling that Littlefinger cared most about besting them all. It wasn't just that he didn't care who he hurt on the way up, he seemed to actively relish all of the chaos, death and destruction. 

[Colorado David]

17 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

~Incest, incest~

~Incest is so much fun~

Can't have gay dudes on this show unless they're eunuchs, but blood relative sex is A-OK.

Interesting. I assumed a lot of the Unsullied were gay.

 

oops sorry bout that, misread it.

Margaery's hubby was gay, remember?

Edited August 28, 2017 by Colorado David

[Traveller519]

So this is stupidly minor in the grand scheme of things, but I was a little disappointed with the appearance of Rhaegar. I get that they wanted to make him look similar to Viserys, but in the History and Lore series, he's been shown to be big and tall with more flowing hair than Viserys' Wet Mop-style. And it seemed like he was only slightly taller than Lyanna.

Rhaegar had become pretty much my favourite character who had never been seen based on everything that was said about him, so maybe I built him up a little too much in my mind, and we really only did get the quick flashes, but he didn't appear to be the great specimen they seem to have made him out to be. Though, I suppose like all legends, perhaps his had grown since his passing.

The actor who plays him does appear to be a good looking dude. Maybe he'll get another scene or two next season.

[ImpinAintEasy]

22 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

So this is stupidly minor in the grand scheme of things, but I was a little disappointed with the appearance of Rhaegar. I get that they wanted to make him look similar to Viserys, but in the History and Lore series, he's been shown to be big and tall with more flowing hair than Viserys' Wet Mop-style. And it seemed like he was only slightly taller than Lyanna.

Rhaegar had become pretty much my favourite character who had never been seen based on everything that was said about him, so maybe I built him up a little too much in my mind, and we really only did get the quick flashes, but he didn't appear to be the great specimen they seem to have made him out to be. Though, I suppose like all legends, perhaps his had grown since his passing.

The actor who plays him does appear to be a good looking dude. Maybe he'll get another scene or two next season.

 

He looked much bigger than Viserys to me. He was having to crouch to kiss Lyanna. I think it was that they used the same wig as Viserys had. But really, if you think about the show, Kit and Emilia are short. So it's odd to have Rhaegar be some tall hunk of a man. He was a brooding musician, after all. So I pictured him as being lean and lithe. 

[Lady S.]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My only quibble is I'm almost certain that someone (Ned? Syrio?) once told Arya to always clean her sword before putting it back in the scabbard so when she cut Littlefinger's neck and then just jammed that knife back in, I was like nooooooo!

Maybe you're thinking of one of Sandor's lessons? I remember him wiping the blade after he mercy-killed that peasant.

Updated. Some geeky observations:

1. We have 11 characters left who have been there since the pilot (3 Starks, 3 Lannisters, 2 Targs, 1 Greyjoy, a Friendzoned Bear and The Hound) plus 5 introduced in mid-s1 (Varys, Sam, Gendry, the Mountain & Bronn)
2. 7 characters around since s2 (Gilly, Davos, Mel, Yara, Brienne, Pod, and Edd)
3. 5(/6?) characters around since s3 (Missandei, Tormund, Qyburn, Beric and Grey Worm(& Lord Floppy Fish could still possibly re-appear, I guess)) 
4. With Littlefinger dead, Varys is the only non-Lannister left of Robert/Joffrey's small council.

(Sure, I missed someone in there, but that's ignoring side characters like Hot Pie and Robin Arryn.)

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

"Teller of Truths", "Keeper of Vows", "Caller of Booty"... 

Grand Maester of Cunnlingus ...

[bmoore4026]

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

Margaery's hubby was gay, remember?

 

And then he died

[Star Aristille]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Thank you.  Myrcella and Tommen's death were the fault of their horrible mother and stupid Tyrion is actually almost begging for her forgiveness.

How the fuck is Cersei responsible for Myrcella's death?  Tommen's death, sure, but Myrcella's?  The only one to blame for that is Ellaria.

[NeenerNeener]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

"Caller of Booty"... 

Oh god, I'm never going to be able to watch this show again without thinking of this and giggling.

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Grand Maester of Cunnlingus ...

The God of Small Peckers? (Although I prefer to think that Tormund is just so well-endowed that all other cocks look tiny to him.)

[CeeBeeGee]

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

The many jobs of Arya Stark:

Waitress

Costermonger

Mortuary assistant

Frey cook

Party Planner

Executioner

 

Did I miss any?

Cup bearer.

[LisaBLingLing]

17 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

How the fuck is Cersei responsible for Myrcella's death?  Tommen's death, sure, but Myrcella's?  The only one to blame for that is Ellaria.

It all comes about because she accused Tyrion of killing Joffrey.  She had absolutely no evidence that he was the one who did it.  And, of course, he didn't.

[ImpinAintEasy]

So, are we gonna see headless Ned and everyone else in the Winterfell crypts as part of the Army of the dead? Oh Lord of Light, could Jon have to kill his mother's undead corpse? 

[Star Aristille]

21 minutes ago, LisaBLingLing said:

It all comes about because she accused Tyrion of killing Joffrey.  She had absolutely no evidence that he was the one who did it.  And, of course, he didn't.

Still don't know what that has to do with Myrcella's death.  Still only seeing it as Ellaria's doing.  Don't see the connection at all.

[LisaBLingLing]

10 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Still don't know what that has to do with Myrcella's death.  Still only seeing it as Ellaria's doing.  Don't see the connection at all.

Ellaria killed Myrcella to avenge Oberyn.  She blamed the Lannisters for all of it and consequently wanted to kill all Lannisters.  (She knew Myrcella was a Lannister.)

[Star Aristille]

26 minutes ago, LisaBLingLing said:

Ellaria killed Myrcella to avenge Oberyn.  She blamed the Lannisters for all of it and consequently wanted to kill all Lannisters.  (She knew Myrcella was a Lannister.)

Unless Cersei specifically picked the Mountain for Oberyn's opponent (I'm pretty sure Tywin picked him), I don't see how that's her fault.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Star Aristille

[Clanstarling]

16 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

So just to get things straight . . . everything that's happened between the Starks and the Lannisters has been because Littlefinger started it?  I just need that confirmed.  If so, no wonder Sansa, Arya, and Bran were all okay with him being killed.

Even though Littlefinger was responsible for a lot of it, I think it's a bit like Cersei blaming Tyrion for everything. A lot of grown people made stupid decisions.

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That awkward reunion at the dragon pit was like a hilarious version of Downton Abbey where everyone politely stares at each other but the stares are fraught with meaning after the initial "What are you doing here?" "No, what are YOU doing here?" Loved that we got some good but brief conversations with people who haven't seen each other in years.

Love this! If I'd been sipping tea, I'd have had a spit take. :)

13 hours ago, charmed1 said:

That's how I feel about Olenna Tyrell. I'm still holding out hope for that mean old dame.

Me too. 

 

13 hours ago, Chinspinner said:

3)      That overlong, pregnant pause before the white walker came out the box was superb. That one moment made the whole silly plan and the loss of the dragon worthwhile.

For a minute I thought, oh no, the dead don't rise in the sun!

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

3. Theon is seeking personal redemption for his failures in running away

LF, it seems to me, was looking to cause chaos and find ways to use it to his advantage. He presumably figured by setting two of the Great Houses of Westeros against each other, there would be opportunity there. Maybe Ned would be killed to allow him to finally hook up with Cat. Maybe the Lannisters would fall out of favor, or he could drop the news that Cersei and Jaimie were boning and that none of Robert's supposed legit children were his. 

I favor #3.

"Chaos is a ladder." Littlefinger, repeated by Bran the Three Eyed Raven. I think you're dead on.

6 hours ago, Infie said:

I realized at some point last night that the sex with Jon and Danaerys wasn't just their first time together - it was Jon's first time having full on sex at all.  With Ygritte he kept it all oral so that Jon wasn't breaking his oath to the Night's Watch.   It makes the pause during the scene a little more poignant I think.

Sticker to the Letter, not the Spirit, of Oaths. A bit long, I know. Here's an alternate version "Parser of Words" (I did not have sex with that woman!)

6 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I loved the Jon/Theon scene. Someone asked why it took Jon's absolution to snap Theon out of his Reek mindset. I believe it is because Jon is the closest person to Robb/Ned. Theon would have spent a lot of time with him growing up, more so than Sansa. So Jon telling him he was a Stark really gave him the ultimate feeling of forgiveness. I'm not sure it was ultimately what led him to stand up for himself and fight back, but the final shot of him kneeling in the sea and washing the blood from his face felt like a rebirth. Reek is finally gone, and Theon has returned. 

What is dead may never die. Hmmm, the Ironborn motto is awfully portentious. Then again, so is Winter is Coming. And perhaps the debts the Lannisters pay will not be in gold.

4 hours ago, LuciaMia said:

Feeling like such an idiot. Believe it or not, I thought this was the final season in the series. Convinced I read it in several formats. So I kept thinking, no way will they be able to tie up all these plot lines in just 7 episodes. And of course, there was no way they could have. When we got to the final dragon attack on the Wall it finally sunk in. Oh man, and 2018 before we see another?  Aaaargh.

Join the club! I figured it out last week, but felt just the same.

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Jamie is worried that his gold hand will freeze? He really is a slow learner....

I know. I was thinking...maybe a wooden hand would work better? 

12 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Unless Cersei specifically picked the Mountain for Oberyn's opponent (I'm pretty sure Tywin picked him), I don't see that's her fault.

IIRC, she did indeed pick the Mountain.  I believe Oberyn wanted to be Tyrion's stand in because the Mountain had raped and killed his sister. Still, Oberyn freely chose to fight - so I don't see that this is on Cersei. And I am in no way, shape, or form a Cercei apologist.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Clanstarling

[bethster2000]

9 hours ago, charmed1 said:

Thanks. Now I can't get the theme of "Who's the Boss" out of my head. Picturing Tormund driving across Westeros in a beat up old blue van to a "brand new life around the bend" while a bug eyed, scowling Brienne opens her door in disgust. Starring Podrick as Jonathan.

I would watch the hell out of that series.  Fuck the tits off it, if you will.

I feel that there is never nearly enough Brienne of Tarth in any episode anyway.  I would watch any series, for reals, that they devote to her and her adventures.  She is just a great, great character.

[NeenerNeener]

14 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

I feel that there is never nearly enough Brienne of Tarth in any episode anyway.  I would watch any series, for reals, that they devote to her and her adventures.  She is just a great, great character.

The actress said in an interview before the season started that Brienne would get to be "physical" in a different way for her this time. Since she was physical in the same old way this season, sword fights, I wonder what she meant by this.

Edited August 28, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[Lady S.]

46 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Sticker to the Letter, not the Spirit, of Oaths. A bit long, I know. Here's an alternate version "Parser of Words" (I did not have sex with that woman!)

Jon freely admitted to breaking his vows with Ygritte and acted confused by Sam's attempt at lawyering out the "father no children" bit. We may not have seen the moment of penetration but I don't think Jon's intent with Ygritte was ever to remain a technical virgin. He just genuinely wanted to go down on her, not use cunninglingus purely for trickery. 

[filmfan2480]

I didn't like the look on Tyrion's face when Jon entered the room.  I took it as: Tyrion knows exactly what Cersei is up to.  We didn't see the end of his conversation with Cersei.  She manipulated him with her pat on the tummy.  She IS his sister (means something deep inside).  I think she told him that she had no intention of coming to help in the North.  I think Tyrion is to stay quiet about it.  And I hope he eventually tells the new lovers what's up.  Maybe he's conflicted (being The Hand to Dany).  Maybe Jamie will meet up and be the one to tell of Cersei's plan NOT to help.  In any case, Tyrion looked sorrowful when he observed Jon enter that room.  I think he knows that things might not go well soon enough.

[NeenerNeener]

4 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

It's like the writers just realized how much story they had to get through in the time remaining, and just gave up on the kind of storytelling that made this show so good, and resorted to increasing series' of lazy conversations where characters just explain things to each other in order to move things along, without any of it really meaning anything.

In the first four seasons a whole lot of exposition like this took place in scenes with naked people. But sticking Sam and Bran in a whorehouse for the conversation about Jon's parentage really wouldn't work now. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have found a less clunky way to do it than as it was actually played, though.

Edited August 29, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[paigow]

6 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

 But sticking Sam and Bran in a whorehouse for the conversation about Jon's parentage really wouldn't work now. 

Who is Lord Pimp in Kings Landing now? The Stark girls have now triggered the War of Five Pimps....

[Mabinogia]

With the WW coming I would think whore houses will be busier than ever as the soldiers take one look at the enemy say "fuck this shit" and make a bee line to the fastest lay they can find. If you're going to go out, at least go out with a bang! 

[Slovenly Muse]

13 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

4 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

It's like the writers just realized how much story they had to get through in the time remaining, and just gave up on the kind of storytelling that made this show so good, and resorted to increasing series' of lazy conversations where characters just explain things to each other in order to move things along, without any of it really meaning anything.

In the first four seasons a whole lot of exposition like this took place in scenes with naked people. But sticking Sam and Bran in a whorehouse for the conversation about Jon's parentage really wouldn't work now. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have found a less clunky way to do it than as it was actually played, though.

Oh, for sure! The show has always been exposition-heavy (or "sexposition," as one might call it when it takes place with gratuitous nudity), but it was always balanced with action. Characters would have long conversations, but they would hide their true motivations, so you had to REALLY read in to what was said to figure out why this character seemed to want whatever outcome. Then, they would take action (often at odds with their words) and the truth would be revealed. Imagine, if Joffrey had had an extended conversation with someone before it happened about how he was going to cut off Ned Stark's head no matter what...  the surprise would be dulled and it just wouldn't have resulted in the same shocking moment. That's what they spent this ENTIRE EPISODE doing.  Instead of having a meeting and talking about the wights... why not SEND the wight in its box disguised as a gift to Cersei and let her see what happens when it is opened in the castle. Then we could have SEEN her react to the threat and respond to the complexities of both the reality of the White Walkers and the struggle for the Iron Throne against enemies whose attentions are ALSO divided by the army of the dead. Plus, if it had killed her or anyone important to her grip on power, that would have helped Team Targaryen, and if not, she STILL wouldn't have been able to deny that the threat was real, and it still would have helped Team Targaryen! Getting together and talking it out was so lazy. I wanted to SEE Euron Greyjoy's ships sailing not for home but on a mission to retrieve the army of sellswords, I wanted to SEE the moment when Cersei took action to betray the people with whom she had agreed to a truce, and have a chance to be surprised by it. I wanted the truth about Jon's parentage to be discovered or revealed at a more crucial moment, by someone with less predictable motives. What if Dany had found out first? Or Tyrion? Or Varys? Having this conversation take place between these two characters (Jon's absolute allies, who can't DO anything with the info) at this time was a wasted opportunity for drama, and it squandered all the build-up to the truth. Exposition is fine, but it needs to be balanced with action. I can't remember the last time a season finale of GoT contained so little action! A pretty poor showing for a 90-minute episode.

Beyond that, there were just all kinds of little storytelling blunders. Like, having Cersei decide whether or not to ask Frankenmountain to kill her brother TWICE, and doing it in reverse order! If she won't kill the brother she hates, she definitely won't kill the brother she loves! Could the stakes have been any lower that second time? Even if letting Tyrion live had been a ploy, the audience maybe hadn't quite figured that out yet. It's poor storytelling, plain and simple.

And the thing that really drives me crazy about this season is the increased focus on the army of the dead. It's such a distraction from the power struggle over the Iron Throne, and what's worse, ever since they established old-school-vampire rules for how they work (i.e., kill the one that "turned" the group, and the whole group falls), the ENTIRE ARMY OF THE DEAD is just ANOTHER distraction, because the only real enemy is the Night King... one good shot at him and the entire army is dust. It just feels so pointless and rushed. Like they needed to come up with a quick solution for how to defeat this massive, terrifying army, and they came up with "What if the heroes only had to defeat one guy?" Is there a purpose to the Night King beyond the chaos his presence creates for Our Heroes? What does he want? Why is he coming South? Does he want to destroy the world, or rule it? Or is he only trying to borrow a cup of sugar? For a series that delves amazingly deeply into the morally grey areas of all its characters and their desires and motivations, the Night King is such a weirdly one-dimensional "evil" that is objectively "bad" just because. If he really is being positioned as the REAL enemy in the final season, I'm going to need a lot more information about who and what he is and what he wants... otherwise the complexities of the series and its characters will be nullified, as everyone just bands together against the lumbering army of evil blank slates, which... if that's what I wanted, I'd just watch a zombie movie!

I'm not saying there wasn't anything to enjoy here, because there was. I'm just concerned that these final seasons are not capable of paying off the promise of the earlier ones.

[NeenerNeener]

12 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

I'm not saying there wasn't anything to enjoy here, because there was. I'm just concerned that these final seasons are not capable of paying off the promise of the earlier ones.

Well, the earlier seasons benefited from actual GRRM-written source material that could be adapted. The later seasons are all working off a sketchy outline from Martin, who seems to have lost interest in wrapping up his creation and turned over finishing the story to HBO. 

[ImpinAintEasy]

I thought it was established from the start that the White Walkers and their army was the end game that the series was building up to. They are featured in the very first scene in the pilot episode. Lord Commander Mormont voiced this to Jon in season 1, that the game of thrones and who sits the iron throne mean nothing when the dead come marching. Frankly, I'm surprised and a little disappointed that Cersei seems to be set up as being the final obstacle. 

 

As for only needing to kill the Night King, it is pretty much what I expected it to be. We've known from early on that the White Walkers create the wights, and I've always assumed they controlled them too. 

[ParadoxLost]

28 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Beyond that, there were just all kinds of little storytelling blunders. Like, having Cersei decide whether or not to ask Frankenmountain to kill her brother TWICE, and doing it in reverse order! If she won't kill the brother she hates, she definitely won't kill the brother she loves! Could the stakes have been any lower that second time? Even if letting Tyrion live had been a ploy, the audience maybe hadn't quite figured that out yet. It's poor storytelling, plain and simple.

I'm most bothered by Cersei's lie about joining her forces with Dany and the North being an effective strategy.

Because everyone has been hit with the idiot stick again.  Did they wait for evidence of troop movement before going North?  Did they leave a portion of their forces behind to ensure that Cersei doesn't make a grab for whatever the minute they leave?  Did they have a conversation about that just being something they would have to deal with after dealing with the NK?

Because Cersei not sending troops North is kind of a noticeable thing.  And Cersei is not trustworthy so its actually a lie they can test easier than a promise of truce while they were gone.   But then the whole attempt at truce was pointless which made catch a white pointless. But we've beaten that horse dead.

Edited August 29, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Auntie Anxiety]

43 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

With the WW coming I would think whore houses will be busier than ever as the soldiers take one look at the enemy say "fuck this shit" and make a bee line to the fastest lay they can find. If you're going to go out, at least go out with a bang! 

Ser Davos can be in charge of the fermented crab concession. He'd make a ton of money.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Auntie Anxiety

[ShellsandCheese]

Quote

Jamie parting with Cersei was weird.  He has a kid on the way.  Where is he going?  I just can't imagine him arriving in the North without the army, saying Cersei lied but Im here to represent the army.  And doesn't he have anyone who will follow him but must ride alone?

The topic of a "just" murder came up again.  Lannisters for the most part kill real threats and do not exercise killing for game.  Joffrey was the exception.  Tyrion killed his father when his life was threatened.  Cersei killed Ned and the septans when they threatened her power.

Ramsey Bolton killed for game.

Dany killed for disobedience, not power threat.  That's a little wild, closer to game killing.

And now we have Sansa and Arya killing because they want to, which is closer to Ramsey.

In all this Lannisters seem pretty stately.  I hope Jon can fix up Dany in that regard.  Im starting to cheer for the Lannisters, they seem most civilized.

I gotta disagree here. House Lannister is one of the least civilized houses. Just for starters: Jamie shoved a child out of a window paralyzing him for life and prior to this season it ended with Cersei blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor. It doesn't get more uncivilized than that. Cersei killing out of fear of losing power is no different than Ramsey Bolton killing to instill fear in people. Both are psychopaths. And in Cersei's case her idiotic decisions can be directly attributed to the death of her son Tommen and to an extent the death of Joffrey. She was his primary caregiver and raised him to be a little beast. 

[Lady S.]

26 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I thought it was established from the start that the White Walkers and their army was the end game that the series was building up to. They are featured in the very first scene in the pilot episode. Lord Commander Mormont voiced this to Jon in season 1, that the game of thrones and who sits the iron throne mean nothing when the dead come marching. Frankly, I'm surprised and a little disappointed that Cersei seems to be set up as being the final obstacle. 

Even with as much of a dum-dum as he's been portrayed as recently, Tyrion will know Cersei lied as soon as Jaime shows up alone without a full army. I doubt we'll have six eps of Cersei/Euron/Qyburn just being ignored while every other character fights the WWs only to deal with her after the Night King is defeated. They didn't keep her alive to have 6 hours of united Long Night fighting. It's going to be a two-pronged war as it should have been since Jon met Dany, while they tried to pretend there was no time to kill Cersei but enough time for everyone to zip all over the continent. The set-up is clunky and contrived but if we need a remaining villain in the political plot rather than 6+ hours of Morally Gray vs. Pure Evil than I'm glad that player is Cersei, not Littlefinger.

[ImpinAintEasy]

30 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Even with as much of a dum-dum as he's been portrayed as recently, Tyrion will know Cersei lied as soon as Jaime shows up alone without a full army. I doubt we'll have six eps of Cersei/Euron/Qyburn just being ignored while every other character fights the WWs only to deal with her after the Night King is defeated. They didn't keep her alive to have 6 hours of united Long Night fighting. It's going to be a two-pronged war as it should have been since Jon met Dany, while they tried to pretend there was no time to kill Cersei but enough time for everyone to zip all over the continent. The set-up is clunky and contrived but if we need a remaining villain in the political plot rather than 6+ hours of Morally Gray vs. Pure Evil than I'm glad that player is Cersei, not Littlefinger.

 

Ideally the two fights would spill into each other, with the living having to retreat all the way South. Perhaps this is where Jaime could be forced to kill Cersei? To prevent her from basically ending any chance of defeating the Night King. 

[rubinia]

On 8/27/2017 at 9:52 PM, LittleIggy said:

Aiden Gillen is sexy as hell (loved him since The Wire). He was great as Baelish.

Loved him since Circle of Friends!

[Jewlmc]

Wow. I could not care less that Dany is Jon's (younger) Aunt, the  chemistry is off the chain. Also, Ned will always be Jon's father in my book. Just like Theon.

BTW, that was awesome. Go Theon.

Iron throne Scmiron throne. It's not going to matter in the end of all this.

Buh bye Littlefinger. I KNEW they were playing him.

The only thing that would have made Jamie's leaving better is if he met up with Brienne.

Cersei is a hag. LOl at "We've been waiting for some time" Your ass was waiting for two minutes STFU. You know she wishes she had a Dragon. Qyburn too. 

 

My my theory is that Jon/ Dany kid is Destined for Jamie/Cersei kid and Tyrion will watch over both. 

 

Poor Tyrion. He probably didn't realize how he loved Dany until just then.

 

Crazy theory: Did anyone else get the impression that Jon/Dany are Rheagar and Lyanna reborn? Would work. Rheagar died just before Jon was born. And Dany was born months after Lyanna died....

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jewlmc

[enoughcats]

5 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

9 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

The many jobs of Arya Stark:

Waitress

Costermonger

Mortuary assistant

Frey cook

Party Planner

Executioner

 

Did I miss any?

Cup bearer.

Artisan butcher.

Stage hand

Dispatcher of justice

The look that Brienne had on her face as Jamie walked by her.  Her eyes were so sad.  

Was this the first time she'd seen him around his sister?  
As she was leaving the dragon pit and walking beside him,  again she owned the screen as she got his attention.   If there were a book, I'd slog through hundreds of pages to get more on her thoughts at that meeting. 

[Daisy]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Even though Littlefinger was responsible for a lot of it, I think it's a bit like Cersei blaming Tyrion for everything. A lot of grown people made stupid decisions.

Love this! If I'd been sipping tea, I'd have had a spit take. :)

Me too. 

 

For a minute I thought, oh no, the dead don't rise in the sun!

I favor #3.

"Chaos is a ladder." Littlefinger, repeated by Bran the Three Eyed Raven. I think you're dead on.

Sticker to the Letter, not the Spirit, of Oaths. A bit long, I know. Here's an alternate version "Parser of Words" (I did not have sex with that woman!)

What is dead may never die. Hmmm, the Ironborn motto is awfully portentious. Then again, so is Winter is Coming. And perhaps the debts the Lannisters pay will not be in gold.

Join the club! I figured it out last week, but felt just the same.

I know. I was thinking...maybe a wooden hand would work better? 

IIRC, she did indeed pick the Mountain.  I believe Oberyn wanted to be Tyrion's stand in because the Mountain had raped and killed his sister. Still, Oberyn freely chose to fight - so I don't see that this is on Cersei. And I am in no way, shape, or form a Cercei apologist.

Me either. I've always said - Oberyn's death was 100 percent on Oberyn. yes the circumstances was all shady as crap - (Tywin pushing forward with the trial and everything) but Oberyn had a chance to kill the Mountain (like really kill him) and he was so focused on "Admit the truth!" that's what caused his death. Ellaria couldn't deal with that, and she killed Myrcella. I don't apologise for Cersei but i'll never blame her for her it went down either. 

[Daisy]

[LittleIggy]

If the wight hadn't jumped out of the box all scary as hell, what excuse would Euron have given for taking his marbles and leaving?

[Auntie Anxiety]

14 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

14 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Perhaps if Arya puts on Lord Baelish's face hopefully in Kings Landing, things will stay interesting.

I was thinking the same thing but how in the world would they convince everyone in that room to keep his execution secret?

There probably wouldn't be many Northerners visiting Kings Landing to begin with and if there were rumors, they would be contradicted the minute Lord Baelish 2.0 shows up on the scene. 

Person in KL: I heard you were dead.

Arya/Lord Baelish: Well, I'm here, aren't I? (Spoken in Littlefinger's pompous tone)

[LittleIggy]

15 hours ago, penelope79 said:

 

 

 

15 hours ago, penelope79 said:

 

I am SO relieved that Sansa and Arya were just pretending in order to sentence Littlefinger to death. Good riddance! However, I still have the impression that they argued in private, most of the times: how could Littlefinger know about their private confrontation? Little birds?

 

That's what bugged me about those scenes in retrospect (and why I had my doubts that they were pretending). Arya and Sansa were acting as if Lord Baelish had spy cams in their rooms. Assuming he was listening at the door every time they had an argument, why would they have to make those stern facial expressions instead of winking at each other? I know it was to sow confusion with the viewers and create suspense but...

[CletusMusashi]

12 hours ago, Infie said:

I realized at some point last night that the sex with Jon and Danaerys wasn't just their first time together - it was Jon's first time having full on sex at all.  With Ygritte he kept it all oral so that Jon wasn't breaking his oath to the Night's Watch.   It makes the pause during the scene a little more poignant I think.

Well that's all fine and good, but Jongon Stargaryark not using the one thing that he does know screwed us out of a joke. About anteaters.

[voiceover]

13 hours ago, LisaBLingLing said:

Lyanna named him Aegon.  I think Rhaegar was already dead when Jon/Aegon was born.

Okay.  I'm confused.  I thought it was Lyanna & Rhaegar in that bloody birth scene, with her whispering that the baby's name should be Aegon.

I admit, I only saw that part once.  Can anyone clarify?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Okay.  I'm confused.  I thought it was Lyanna & Rhaegar in that bloody birth scene, with her whispering that the baby's name should be Aegon.

I admit, I only saw that part once.  Can anyone clarify?

Lyanna was whispering the baby's name to Ned. She said, "You have to protect him. Promise me, Ned."

[voiceover]

That was Ned?? It didn't even look like Sean Bean. ETA: Just saw @Katalina's line about "younger Ned".

Also ETA: Okay, I watched your clip & listened closely, and yes, she said "Ned".  Which I missed before.

I can't figure out why I thought it was Rhaegar.  The lighting?

Edited August 29, 2017 by voiceover

[Katalina]

Another couple of Arya jobs: oyster seller and pretend brothel worker (with Meryn Trant).

On re-watch, I'm noticing Qyburn with the wight's severed hand. Davos takes it from Qyburn, and he and Jon burn it, and the look on Qyburn's face is kind of “why do you want to burn them?” Like a neat toy has been taken from him.

Quote

 But I have always found the more intimate character driven scenes to be what makes GoT so great.

Agree! In an odd way, action scenes tend to stop the story for a while. There's some advancement of story, but it's the interactions, the conversations, the plotting and intrigue, that show character development and really move the story.

Quote

Okay.  I'm confused.  I thought it was Lyanna & Rhaegar in that bloody birth scene, with her whispering that the baby's name should be Aegon.

I admit, I only saw that part once.  Can anyone clarify?

That was her brother Ned (a younger version!) with her right before she died.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 minutes ago, voiceover said:

That was Ned?? It didn't even look like Sean Bean.

Now I'm afraid I watched it while having a stroke

It wasn't Sean Bean. It was Robert Aramayo, the same actor who played young Ned last season (Oathbreaker, Blood of My Blood, The Winds of Winter).

[voiceover]

Just now, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It wasn't Sean Bean. It was Robert Aramayo, the same actor who played young Ned last season (Oathbreaker, Blood of My Blood, The Winds of Winter).

 

Right; saw the post after I asked that question.  

Man, I need to get a dvr to pause this shit.

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

 

That's what bugged me about those scenes in retrospect (and why I had my doubts that they were pretending). Arya and Sansa were acting as if Lord Baelish had spy cams in their rooms. Assuming he was listening at the door every time they had an argument, why would they have to make those stern facial expressions instead of winking at each other? I know it was to sow confusion with the viewers and create suspense but...

I think the idea was that the team-up happened offscreen between that ep and this one. The second argument where Arya creepily bluffs about stealing Sansa's face ends with her offering the knife to Sansa hilt-first. Sansa had wondered from the start about Baelish giving Bran the knife, but Bran said he didn't care. She could have taken the knife back to Bran and asked him to vision-surf for more info. 

The other thinking here seems to be that Sansa didn't do anything until after the first scene with Petyr playing the worst motives game and realizing Arya didn't want to be Lady of Winterfell, but I don't think the game made sense before that point. I don't buy Sansa asking him what Arya could be after and concluding she came to Winterfell just to murder her. She'd already summed up their conflict, that Arya would only move against her if she thought Sansa would betray Jon. She had reason to be confused by Arya but not to think Baelish understood Arya any better. However weirded out by Arya she was, she had no reason to doubt that Arya came home to see Jon, not just to murder her. Arya never even brought up Sansa's marriages to Stark enemies, they only started fighting after she found the letter. (And while no doubt she wasn't pleased about Jon bending the knee without consulting her, she'd never shown desire to depose Jon prior to that scene, correctly saying last week that Glover and the other lords being changeable as wind vanes isn't a good thing.)

The Inside the Ep isn't much help because D&D really just talked about tricking the audience and not when Sansa/Arya started tricking Littlefinger, so I guess it's open to interpretation, but I think my timeline of after the last Winterfell scene last week but before the first Winterfell scene this week makes the most sense. The knife should tie it all together. 

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

 

That's what bugged me about those scenes in retrospect (and why I had my doubts that they were pretending). Arya and Sansa were acting as if Lord Baelish had spy cams in their rooms. Assuming he was listening at the door every time they had an argument, why would they have to make those stern facial expressions instead of winking at each other? I know it was to sow confusion with the viewers and create suspense but...

It's difficult to express one emotion with your voice, and do something completely different with your face. For instance, it's pretty hard to do a chirpy voice with a scowl on your face. At least, that's what I've found when acting. Even voice actors emote while they record their performances. So strictly from an acting perspective, I didn't have trouble with it. Extremely skilled actors may be able to do it - but Arya and Sansa are not those. (speaking of the characters, not the actresses)

From the "spycam" perspective, there are often hidden passages and peepholes in castles and estates - generally to keep servants out of sight and, yep, for spying. So I can fanwank it and say they picked their moments in places they knew had hidden peepholes. 

Plus, of course, dramatically the payoff was much, much better. The judging scene wouldn't have much of anything if we'd known. So I personally don't mind being played for that kind of payoff. It was way more fun not to be certain.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Clanstarling

[kitmerlot1213]

On 8/27/2017 at 10:30 PM, Advance35 said:

I knew, KNEW Sansa would spit nails when she found out that Jon had given the North to Dany. I can't say I blame her, she still hasn't seen the dead and she has spent the most formative years of her life surrounded by intrigue and political maneuvering,  Everything is determined to be good or bad by how much power is gained or lost.   Sansa knows that she has nothing and is nothing now.  Not on the larger stage of Westeros.   Though her not seeing the relevance of Dany being beautiful proves this girl still has a lot to learn and that Catelyn was WOEFULLY inadequate at preparing her daughter for the Courtly World.  Her lack of sexual knowledge and sexual manipulation was something she lamented to Littlefinger in Season 5.

 

I don’t think there was a word of truth in Sansa’s conversations with Baelish regarding Jon and Daenerys—she was setting Littlefinger up, letting him think she was a helpless little girl and he was her relied upon confidant, helping her navigate being Lady of Winterfell.  Most importantly she made him think she was doubting Arya’s loyalty and that he was the only person she trusted.  Sansa manipulated Baelish like a queen because she does understand the power a beautiful woman can wield over a man attracted to her and she definitely understands using sex to distract from a hidden agenda. 

Regarding Baelish’s insinuation about Jon and his only being interested because he wants Daenerys, Sansa just thinks Jon’s better than to fall for a pretty face—she knows he has more depth then that.

Littlefinger’s fall from grace was gorgeous to behold, especially when all of his past plans were brought to light.  I loved that Sansa pointed out that Baelish’s pushing Lysa out of the moon door enabled him to take power of the Vale, and that Lysa’s threatening Sansa’s life didn’t even enter into his plans.  I also liked Sansa’s pointing out that Baelish tried to put a wedge between her and Arya, just like he was able to do with Catelyn and Lysa—a nice nod to their shared Tully history.  Best part:  My Stark sisters aren’t at each others throats and they both now know that they’ve both been through hell and are stronger for it.

There were other fabulous scenes:  Jamie stopping Euron Greyjoy from insulting Tyrion about being a dwarf, Jamie and Brienne’s brief conversation about loyalty and the truly awesome scene between Jon and Theon--yes, Theon did some horrible things, which he has more then paid for and he’s also done some heroic things, but in the end, he was still a part of the Stark wolf pack—just like Jon-- because they were all raised together by Ned.

I would love it if Jamie came to Winterfell and fell madly in love with Sansa—she deserves a good man and when Jamie’s away from his sister, he is a good guy.

Regarding the reveal about Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, I wonder when this whole secret relationship started.  Was it after he kidnapped her from the tournament or had they met before?  And I think Jon Snow is an inherently good person who lives his life by his own code and while he’s a natural born leader, he doesn’t seek out command, it just comes to him.  Once the reveal of his true parentage comes out, I don’t think he’ll be comfortable continuing to sleep with a woman he knows is his aunt and he really has zero interest in the Iron throne.