S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[TaurusRose]

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

And why not just try and sneak up behind the group and snag a straggler?

Yeah, because that would have worked.  I'm pretty sure the one they had brought down the huge army we saw with its screeching. What makes you think a straggler wouldn't have done the same? 

[GrailKing]

10 minutes ago, Taget said:

Know who deserves a sword?  Lyanna Mormont.  That sword was in her family for generations.  Of course John has more use for it now.  But he really should be considering it a loaner.

She needs to get a son, is Jon going to volunteer ?

I think he can or will return it, if ICE gets back home.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

IMO Sansa winds up with the Tully holdings, Arya winds up with Winterfell.

Edmure still has a right to the Tully holdings. And I don't think Arya has much taste for estate administration, especially when compared to adventure. I expect she might end up with Gendry at the Baratheon holdings. As a bastard with no pretensions, Gendry can set up as unconventional a household as he wants to and won't insist his lady actually ACT like a lady. :)

Edited August 22, 2017 by screamin

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

IMO Sansa winds up with the Tully holdings, Arya winds up with Winterfell.

Not unless Arya does a complete reversal of personality and a crash course in Castle and Lands administrations. ETA : as of now 4 people can do that: Tyrion, Jon , Davos and Sansa.

Edited August 22, 2017 by GrailKing

[stagmania]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm not sure if the endgame of Season 8 is going to be that 1) Jon is the King, 2) Jon marries Daenerys and the two of them are King and Queen co-regents in a William and Mary kind of way, 3) Jon marries Sansa (his first cousin, a bit less squicky to me than aunt/nephew) and she becomes his Queen.

For whatever reason, I have always felt like "Game of Thrones" is the story of the Starks.  And it makes the most sense to me that two Starks end up ruling Westeros.  So, I'd vote for #3.  I've just never been on the Daenerys train, and this season has shown to me that she's a fairly ineffective leader.

This view of the relative squickiness of levels of incest makes no sense to me. Jon and Sansa were raised as siblings. I find that far more of an obstacle than the DNA he and Daenerys don't know they share. Biological cousins or not, a Jon and Sansa pairing would be viewed as a sibling relationship.

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I get too much of a brother and sister vibe between Arya and Gendry...and they are NOT Tarygayens. :)  How about Gendry marrying Sansa?  Ned promised her someday she would be married to someone brave and gentle and strong.  Of course we know that wasn't her type. :) But, maybe after being engaged to Joffrey and married to Ramsey it is now.  

Gendry is also not on Sansa's level. He's cute, guys, but he's not suitable husband material for any great ladies of Westeros.

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I don't think Jon is dumb, I think the showrunners are writing him as dumb because they couldn't think of a better plot device to get the NK his dragon.

A fine distinction, but one I also try to maintain. I won't hold it against the characters when I can see the sloppy writing fucking them over.

[Heathrowe]

Isn't Gendry a Targ? If Roberts grandmother was a Targaryen, that's his great-grandmother. Legitimate or no, the blood is in veins....

[TaurusRose]

51 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I get what you are saying, but if the show runners write you dumb, you are dumb.

I don't think the show runners are writing Jon or any of the Starks as dumb.  I think that's the way some fans choose to look at them, unless you're talking about Sansa. Not trying to start a fight here, but it seems that Sansa is exempt from this label.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, taurusrose said:

I don't think the show runners are writing Jon or any of the Starks as dumb.  I think that's the way some fans choose to look at them, unless you're talking about Sansa. Not trying to start a fight here, but it seems that Sansa is exempt from this label.

Again people who want to disavow, repudiate  the author; who knows the character (s) he wrote and speaks about.

[TaurusRose]

Just now, GrailKing said:

Again people who want to disavow, repudiate  the author; who knows the character (s) he wrote and speaks about.

Huh? Not following.

[GraceK]

A Jon and Sansa pairing is disgusting and would come out of nowhere. Just because they become aware that they are not actually siblings, it doesn't mean that There entire childhood is erased and they suddenly have the hots for each  other . Jon would kill himself before he would have sex with Sansa and Sansa has never given the impression that she is in love with him. It's only been recently that she has even learned to respect him. To her he's her BROTHER and vice versa.

i don't understand this idea that 2 strangers who meet and find out they are related is more squicky that 2 siblings who realize they aren't as closely related. 

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Huh? Not following.

Short version, GRRM states they're  wrong.

Edited August 23, 2017 by GrailKing
clairifacation

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Discussion of endgame and/or season 8: topics exist for those. Same with discussing 'Starks are dumb' - there is a House Stark topic and individual character topics for that.

[TaurusRose]

9 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Short version, GRRM states you're wrong.

Responding in House Stark thread.

[Blonde Gator]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

You want Sansa to have a good plan blow up in hr face?

This looked confusing.

But Kit is taller then Emillia.

Wow, that was a REAL Freudian slip, wasn't it?  Of course I meant Cersei, but I guess you knew that.  My Sansa hate showing through, LOL.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, stagmania said:

Gendry is also not on Sansa's level. He's cute, guys, but he's not suitable husband material for any great ladies of Westeros.

Gendry is a Baratheon and a Targaryen. If he survives the upcoming wars, I have no doubt that Jon will legitimize him and give him the Baratheon lands. All the remaining houses will be lining up to marry their daughters to him. Maybe he marries Sam's sister, if she survives.

Edited August 23, 2017 by SimoneS

[Constantinople]

For those of you who loved Dany's outfit, there are some photos of it at http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/embrace-the-north-with-this-collection-of-props-and-costumes-from-beyond-the-wall

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

She needs to get a son, is Jon going to volunteer ?

I think he can or will return it, if ICE gets back home.

I wonder if they know that Ice was melted and that Jaime and Brienne are in possession of it. I don't see why the sword couldn't be reforged once the war is over. I don't remember if the books touched on Sansa knowing what happened to Ned's sword. 

All I know is that they need to put that sword back together.

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

For those of you who loved Dany's outfit, there are some photos of it at http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/embrace-the-north-with-this-collection-of-props-and-costumes-from-beyond-the-wall

I cannot get over how stunning that coat is. I wonder what fabric they used. It must have taken weeks to make it. Thanks for posting the link.

[Willowy]

IKEA?

[YaddaYadda]

5 minutes ago, Willowy said:

IKEA?

They needed the wardrobe budget for the CGI wight bear.

[KarenTargaryen]

I was re-watching the scene in the previous episode where Bran sees the NK.  The place where the NK and his men were standing looked very similar to the rock island that Jon and Co. were stranded on.  Could someone do a side by side comparison?  I'm not sure if this is accurate that it means this was all a trap by the NK, but ???

[Blonde Gator]

9 minutes ago, KarenTargaryen said:

I was re-watching the scene in the previous episode where Bran sees the NK.  The place where the NK and his men were standing looked very similar to the rock island that Jon and Co. were stranded on.  Could someone do a side by side comparison?  I'm not sure if this is accurate that it means this was all a trap by the NK, but ???

It's probably not the same.  They actually built the lake set in a quarry, using tons and tons of concrete, glass, etc. to make it look iced over.  Here's a fantastic HBO video of how they did it.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

I don't think the show runners are writing Jon or any of the Starks as dumb.  I think that's the way some fans choose to look at them, unless you're talking about Sansa. Not trying to start a fight here, but it seems that Sansa is exempt from this label.

I don't necessarily think Jon's character is dumb.  I was just pointing out that if a character is written a certain way, that is what they are.  

[Wulfsige]

Quote

Yes - people having actual conversations like they would instead of the dialogue servicing the plot.  I also wanted Sansa to counter the Game of Faces with a Game of Slaps.

Indeed. Or she could have picked the brat up and dropped her off a rampart. At least the godawful Miranda was going to flay some bits of Sansa that wouldn't show in public.  I'm beginning to wonder if 'Arya' is actually a resurrected Ramsay wearing Arya's face.

Cersai upon being presented with a cursing and kicking zombie..."You want my help with these? These are trying to kill you? Took out one of your dragons, you say?...muhhaahaahaaaa....*cough*...I mean...sorry for your loss. But thanks for the gift, I love it! Um, where can I get more??"

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I wonder if they know that Ice was melted and that Jaime and Brienne are in possession of it. I don't see why the sword couldn't be reforged once the war is over. I don't remember if the books touched on Sansa knowing what happened to Ned's sword. 

All I know is that they need to put that sword back together.

In book Sansa knows something was done to her fathers sword, in show watch Sansa's face when WW was presented, she knows something.

[MarySNJ]

5 hours ago, Heathrowe said:

Response moved to End Game discussion.

2 hours ago, GraceK said:

Response moved to End Game discussion. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by MarySNJ
Moved to End Game Discussion

[GraceK]

I meant to post this here and posted it in the other thread by mistake. Reposting.

So I've just rewatched the episode and I picked up on something that I was too devastated by Viserions death to notice the first time.

When Dany swoops in to rescue them, laying waste to all the wights she can get, the look on Jons face says it all. IMO his face showed such awe and respect, like Wow she's amazing. :) I also loved the expression of pure rage  on Jons face when Viserion died and the way he turned to cut down the 2 wights in front of him. He looked ready to kill them all before he saw the NK start to aim at Drogon.

Honestly that scene sold me more on the Jon/Dany pairing more than anything else. I had chills :)

[MrsR]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

I thought she was impressed when she saw his scars.

Then she should be over her head crazy in love when she gets a load of Lord Beric Dondarrion!!!!

No one ever considers  him a contender for Dany's hand. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by MrsR

[GrailKing]

54 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Then she should over her head crazy in love when she gets a load of Lord Beric Dondarrion!!!!

No one ever considers  him a contender for Dany's hand. 

He's dead 6 times over, he's on his last life, and he can't get life insurance because his heart isn't beating..

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I get too much of a brother and sister vibe between Arya and Gendry...and they are NOT Tarygayens. :)  How about Gendry marrying Sansa?  Ned promised her someday she would be married to someone brave and gentle and strong.  Of course we know that wasn't her type. :) But, maybe after being engaged to Joffrey and married to Ramsey it is now.  

Jamie Lannister said Sansa should marry a blacksmith.

[Raachel2008]

On 21/08/2017 at 7:03 AM, BooBear said:

I have to agree with Dani about planning for the future. I don't see any reason to do that now when there are so many unknowns. First that she get the crown and second that the world isn't destroyed by the white walkers. I am getting sick of Dani constantly throwing it in Tyrions face that his plans didn't work out. His plans were solid. They should be examining what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future not hurling insults.  That shows immaturity. 

To be honest I think this time what set Dany off was Tyrion reminding her that she can't have children. It is one thing to be fully aware you are barren, but to have have it spelled it out loud and how it may be the failure of all you have/will win? That was a blow to Dany, as ruler, as conqueror, and, of course, as a woman. She wanted to be a mother, she was going to be a mother, and that was taken from her (sorry, the dragons don't count).  I tend to think Dany always overreact when things don't go the way she wants, but there I believe it was just a case of Tyrion pushing all the wrong buttons. 

Of course, we are talking about an avil the size of the wall, so more than anything that was like TV 101 for Dany not being barren and being a mother somewhere in the future - with Jon of course, because like I said TV 101.

[rmontro]

23 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Because they couldn't reach that small island Jon and the others were. They stopped and waited for the water to froze. So my reasoning is that they cannot swim or dive, so how did they tie Viserion?

Okay, let's say the wights can't swim.  When the dragons melted the lake again, a bunch of them fell in the water.  So the wights on top passed the chains down to the wights at the bottom of the lake, who attached them to Viserion.  Done.

[RedheadZombie]

I kinda sorta inadvertently watched the pirated episode last Tuesday, after a few too many vodka/lemonades.  I couldn't see it again until tonight, and it's amazing how much I forgot (it helps to be sober).

When it comes to the Arya and Sansa argument, why doesn't anyone remember that the plan almost worked?  If not for a sudden impulse of psychotic Joffrey, something his own mother didn't predict, Ned would be alive and now be at Castle Black.  That's never mentioned, and I think it's unfair to Sansa not to point that out.

Both Sansa and Arya experienced horrendous things in the last few years, but Arya has not been subjected to rape.  And knowing Ramsay, I'm sure Sansa was tortured.  I'm surprised that this has never crossed Arya's mind, and I'm also surprised that she seems to think that it's not possible for anyone to suffer more than herself.  I'm glad that Arya's disguise as a boy protected her, but she  surely understood the purpose of passing as a boy was because the threat of rape is so strong for an unguarded woman.  I've never chosen a side between the sisters, but I'm choosing Sansa in this episode.

We see the Hound fail to act, yet again, because of fire (and good on Jorah for killing the bear).  It has to be purposeful, and makes me think he will heroically die from fire while saving others.  Maybe I'm wrong - I usually am on this show.

I haven't read the books and it hasn't been said overtly, but I've always sensed romantic love between Beric and Thoros.  Beric really needs to mind his Ps and Qs now that he's on his last life.

I adored all the male bonding, and fuck you show for the apparent belief that women are incapable of doing the same.

There is no justice in this world if Sansa doesn't have some part in Littlefinger's death.  They gave her autonomy in Ramsay's snuffing, and I don't want her standing back cringing as Arya takes over.  This doesn't mean I want Sansa physically wielding a weapon necessarily, but I want her in control and commanding.  She's come too far now to cower.  Please, please let next week's episode show the Stark girls working together and loyal to each other. 

I know some are grossed out by Tormund's wooing of Brienne and her rejection, but I'm hopeful.  It's not like he wants to throw her over his horse and dominate her.  He's clearly turned on by the fact that she's a powerful woman with her own mind.  He respects her and is attracted to her.  He won't marry her then expect her to stay in the kitchen.  Wildlings fight alongside their women, and I can't help but think that's something Brienne has always wanted.  And I get the impression he would be more than happy to let her take the lead.

Jorah has chemistry with everyone, including Thoros.  This show continues to have some of the hottest older actors of any show.  Is Jorah's greedy, demanding wife still alive?  If not, Dany needs to find him a wife, if for political reasons alone.   If Jorah lives through the long night, I would love to see him forgiven for his crimes, and given a position of importance by Lady Mormont.  She seems like a practical young lady, and Jorah has proven to be a good advisor. 

I can't help but think that the NK has "allowed" Jon to survive two battles for a reason.  I don't *think* that the dead will be portrayed as the good guys or even people to be reasoned with, but there must be a reason that the wildlings went from being the evil enemy to sympathetic people who can be negotiated with.

I know better than to wish for happy endings, but I hope this story is reminiscent of The Color People.  95% unbearable suffering, then ending beautifully with hope and happiness.

So much love for the Hound punching out the wight and also saving Jon.  Love that the rumbling of the pre-attack was a call back to Hardhome. Yes, Gendry was faster without the hammer, but also helpless! 

It might be the Targaryen blood in him, but Jon was fucking pissed when Vaserion was killed. It's clear that Jon and the NK will battle it out in the end.

Longclaw's eyes definitely turned from silver to black when Jon came out of the water.  It wasn't lighting, it seemed very purposeful.  I absolutely loved that it was Uncle Benjen, who inspired Jon to join the NW, that saved Jon. 

The sight of dead Viserion was so sad.

[arjumand]

11 hours ago, KarenTargaryen said:

I was re-watching the scene in the previous episode where Bran sees the NK.  The place where the NK and his men were standing looked very similar to the rock island that Jon and Co. were stranded on.  Could someone do a side by side comparison?  I'm not sure if this is accurate that it means this was all a trap by the NK, but ???

I went through all three episodes, and it's the same mountain, shaped like an arrowhead, in the background. The place Bran meets the Night King seems to be at a different angle, and there's the remains of the standing stones in a spiral, and the weirwood tree the CoF had the pre-Night King tied to, which we don't see. Jon and co seem closer to the mountain than Bran was.

 

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Longclaw's eyes definitely turned from silver to black when Jon came out of the water.  It wasn't lighting, it seemed very purposeful.  I absolutely loved that it was Uncle Benjen, who inspired Jon to join the NW, that saved Jon. 

The sight of dead Viserion was so sad.

The director has said that it wasn't a planned shot - I looked at it again, and IMO it's just the effect of the water from Jon's hand hitting the eyes on the pommel. Great accidental shot, though!

I'd really like to know whose face Arya had in her creepy bag o' faces - one was Walder Frey, but I couldn't make out if the other one was Ed Sheeran, or one of the other Lannister soldiers from the season opener.

[jeansheridan]

14 hours ago, Taget said:

Know who deserves a sword?  Lyanna Mormont.  That sword was in her family for generations.  Of course John has more use for it now.  But he really should be considering it a loaner.

Very good point. Jorah hasn't met his kickass niece yet. Even Arya was impressed by her. Wish we had seen that meeting. 

[PatsyandEddie]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

I went through all three episodes, and it's the same mountain, shaped like an arrowhead, in the background. The place Bran meets the Night King seems to be at a different angle, and there's the remains of the standing stones in a spiral, and the weirwood tree the CoF had the pre-Night King tied to, which we don't see. Jon and co seem closer to the mountain than Bran was.

 

The director has said that it wasn't a planned shot - I looked at it again, and IMO it's just the effect of the water from Jon's hand hitting the eyes on the pommel. Great accidental shot, though!

I'd really like to know whose face Arya had in her creepy bag o' faces - one was Walder Frey, but I couldn't make out if the other one was Ed Sheeran, or one of the other Lannister soldiers from the season opener.

Was Meryl Trant the other face? 

Arya turned down the Lannister soldiers first offer of food thinking she was going to kill them but after they impressed her with their friendliness, she took their food. 

Great catch by those recognizing the mountain in the background! 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

I went through all three episodes, and it's the same mountain, shaped like an arrowhead, in the background. The place Bran meets the Night King seems to be at a different angle, and there's the remains of the standing stones in a spiral, and the weirwood tree the CoF had the pre-Night King tied to, which we don't see. Jon and co seem closer to the mountain than Bran was.

 

The director has said that it wasn't a planned shot - I looked at it again, and IMO it's just the effect of the water from Jon's hand hitting the eyes on the pommel. Great accidental shot, though!

I'd really like to know whose face Arya had in her creepy bag o' faces - one was Walder Frey, but I couldn't make out if the other one was Ed Sheeran, or one of the other Lannister soldiers from the season opener.

Were they at the Fist of the First Men where Jon previously ranged with LC Mormont?

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

The director has said that it wasn't a planned shot - I looked at it again, and IMO it's just the effect of the water from Jon's hand hitting the eyes on the pommel. Great accidental shot, though!

That's my opinion as well.  I think it's fascinating that all of us are such big fans that we can think an accidental water splash has higher meaning!

[arjumand]

35 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Was Meryl Trant the other face? 

 

That's an idea! But I think the face looks too young for him - also, she was clearly lying about having taken the faces from Braavos, as one of them was Walder Frey. I tried to make the image a bit lighter, to make it a bit clearer.

 

27 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Were they at the Fist of the First Men where Jon previously ranged with LC Mormont?

No, the lake was in some kind of valley or clearing. Also, in Season 2, when they panned around on the Fist of the First men, I couldn't see the arrowhead shape (or at least, all the mountains looked equally pointy!)

Edited August 23, 2017 by arjumand

[FnkyChkn34]

8 minutes ago, arjumand said:

That's an idea! But I think the face looks too young for him - also, she was clearly lying about having taken the faces from Braavos, as one of them was Walder Frey. I tried to make the image a bit lighter, to make it a bit clearer.

 

No, the lake was in some kind of valley or clearing. Also, in Season 2, when they panned around on the Fist of the First men, I couldn't see the arrowhead shape (or at least, all the mountains looked equally pointy!)

In this picture, that actually looks a little bit like Sam to me.  I don't think it really is though, of course.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Which didn't help Lady Hornwood, she died of starvation after eating her fingers off.

But back to this episode, in HBO Westeros, it doesn't matter one iota......apparently there IS legal annulment (as we saw with the Sam/Gilly scene last week), but whatever serves moving the plot is going to be what's accepted, de facto or de jure.

There's legal annulment, but it has to be done by the High Septon, if I understand what I read/heard correctly.  The High Septon before the Sparrow wouldn't have done it because he was a Lannister lapdog, the Sparrow wouldn't have done it because he had bigger fish to fry, and now there is no High Septon.  I guess maybe whoever ends up winning this war can do it, but for now, it's moot.

[YaddaYadda]

29 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Were they at the Fist of the First Men where Jon previously ranged with LC Mormont?

No. The Fist of the First Men is closer to Castle Black than it is to Eastwatch. Wherever they were, it should be somewhere south of Hardhome. But after the battle at Hardhome, we also know that D&D don't really care about maps and geography.

[Tikichick]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

No. The Fist of the First Men is closer to Castle Black than it is to Eastwatch. Wherever they were, it should be somewhere south of Hardhome. But after the battle at Hardhome, we also know that D&D don't really care about maps and geography.

I thought it must be closer to Castle Black since that's where they departed from on that ranging.  But as you said, the show feels free to ignore geography.

[domina89]

13 hours ago, GraceK said:

When Dany swoops in to rescue them, laying waste to all the wights she can get, the look on Jons face says it all. IMO his face showed such awe and respect, like Wow she's amazing. :) I also loved the expression of pure rage  on Jons face when Viserion died and the way he turned to cut down the 2 wights in front of him. He looked ready to kill them all before he saw the NK start to aim at Drogon.

Honestly that scene sold me more on the Jon/Dany pairing more than anything else. I had chills :)

Just wait until he sees her walk out of a fire unharmed.  He'll be "swooning" for sure... ;)

[SeanC]

21 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I get that, but her marriage to Tyrion was not set aside by a high septon, was it?

In the show, that isn't necessary (which is stupid, but there you have it).

[GraceK]

A really interesting review of this episode.

https://www.overthinkingit.com/2017/08/21/game-thrones-unlocked-season-7-episode-6-beyond-wall/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=manual

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

If not, Dany needs to find him a wife, 

I'll marry him! 

[RedheadZombie]

20 hours ago, doram said:

Marry the bastard son of the Usurper who almost wiped out her house???

A similar marriage occurred between Henry VII and Elizabeth of York.  It helped heal the nation after the Wars of the Roses.

[Blonde Gator]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

There's legal annulment, but it has to be done by the High Septon, if I understand what I read/heard correctly.  The High Septon before the Sparrow wouldn't have done it because he was a Lannister lapdog, the Sparrow wouldn't have done it because he had bigger fish to fry, and now there is no High Septon.  I guess maybe whoever ends up winning this war can do it, but for now, it's moot.

Gilly was reading from the journal of High Septon Maynard.  There have been several High Septon's on the show (marriage of Joffrey, for example, and the fat slob whom the High Sparrow had arrested), and the events surrounding the Lyanna/Rhaegar at the Tower of Joy took place some 17 years before the beginning of the series.   Who knows how many High Septons there have been between Tower of Joy and the present. 

I'd take the fact that Maynard's book has been residing (and moldering) at the Citadel as proof that he was, in fact, a High Septon, therefore his writing/recording of ficts and facts from that time were important enough to be included in the History of Westeros, which is part of the overall Mission of the Citadel....official historians.

Here's the clip where Gilly clearly says "High Septon Maynard performed an anullment....."  at approximately 20 seconds in.

[GraceK]

12 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

A similar marriage occurred between Henry VII and Elizabeth of York.  It helped heal the nation after the Wars of the Roses.

 Not that similar. Neither one was a bastard. Elizabeth of York was a legitimate princess in the eyes of the people, even if her parents marriage was declared illegitimate by Richard at the last minute. Henry Tudor was also the last Lancastrian claimant, he may be considered a conqueror who usurped the throne, but he wasn't a bastard either, his family was noble at the least. Henry needed the york marriage alliance to truly cement his claim in the eyes of the people, why on earth Does Dany need Gendry? It's her family whose the dynastic family, it's was her fathers throne and her ancestors who forged it. Gendry is a LOWBORN bastard, who the people would have no loyalty too. An alliance between them would make no sense.

And it's not even a war between the Baratheons and the Targaryens anymore, Dany is fighting against the Lannisters. So again, what would a marriage to Gendry possibly bring her even if he was made legitimate?

Edited August 23, 2017 by GraceK

[Blonde Gator]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

No. The Fist of the First Men is closer to Castle Black than it is to Eastwatch. Wherever they were, it should be somewhere south of Hardhome. But after the battle at Hardhome, we also know that D&D don't really care about maps and geography.

Exactly.....in Sandor Clegane's fire vision w/the Brotherhood in the dead farmer's hut, he said they were east, "near the sea".  In fact, they filmed "the waves are frozen" dialog by the Hound, but cut it.  I think it's south of Hardhome as well, very close to the wall.   The chains may have come from Hardhome, as it is a port of sorts.

And we know Tormund and the wildlings were manning Eastwatch, and Tormund bagged the Brotherhood just south as they were headed to Eastwatch.  Edd is at the Wall.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Blonde Gator