S07.E05: Eastwatch

[Tesla]

3 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

 Even Cersei has learned.

She isn't mad . A mad woman couldn't control herself so well. Letting Tyrion come and go. But poor Bronn. Run Bronn, run.

In my opinion, she IS mad.  She doesn't have to be uncontrollably ragey to be mad;  there are many flavors.  I think that her superb control of herself here in letting Tyrion safely pass is out of character and says more about the writers than the character herself.   

[TheGourmez]

7 hours ago, sweetcookieface said:

That last shot of the expedition heading out beyond the Wall felt like GoT's version of the Avengers. Loved it!

Everyone on Twitter kept saying Suicide Squad and that just made me inexorably sad for humanity. My first power walk memory was probably Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Is there even any reason to bring back Gendry at this point beyond letting Davos get all meta and fan servicey in joking that he's been rowing all this time?  You could almost feel the internet full of a thousand rowing memes reacting to that.

Ugh I thought the entire episode was terrible. Gendry was super forced. When I saw him i thought they were getting him to make their dragon ice weapons but then he hauls off and wants to go fighting the dead? Where did that come from? Gendry never seemed particularly interested in adventure before.  As fans have noted he was way too stoked to be meeting Jon and not mentioning Arya was stupid but I believe on purpose because they didn't want to start the Gendry / Arya ship again.  Had they simply made more dialog about needing someone who knew how to forge weapons it would have made sense. 

Jamie is just... at this point I don't know if I care if he lives. I mean it is sad to see someone so whipped.  What is the point of a child... if they will all die? I bet that Cerci will end up married to Euron and say it is his kid. 

I hate the winter fell plot. It is beyond contrived. Arya... get with the program. Sansa has changed a lot -- to me that is obvious -- and was right to say what she said.  If you have nothing better to do than go kill Cerci and do us all a favor.  I hope that plot ends soon.  Kind of irked that the "revelation" that Arya and Bran were alive was left to one line spoken by John. 

I did like Drogon going over to Jon, but was frustrated that Dani made so little of it. How often have you seen Drogon go seek out any human? That should have been headline news. 

I feel bad for Dickon but he made his choice.  I can't feel bad for Sam's dad.  Does this mean that Sam now inherits dad's money?

I also feel they are being terribly nieve with Cerci... first.. thinking that she just needs to be "convinced" I swear Sansa was needed in that room to remind everyone that Cerci is a special kind of arrogant stupid. Why exactly do they need her support? They just took most of her army? She is really sort of joke now. So to risk life and limb to get a wright? Seems like a stall.  Though the night king is powerful.. I am starting to feel like John is over hyping it. They have dragons, which could take out thousands in 2 or three breaths... they have the rest of the free world ready to fight with dragon glass.. Err, I think we are ready without Cerci. Ships are of no use in the north. 

[IntrovertGal]

So happy Gendry's back! He was awesome in this episode and I loved his banter with Jon when they were talking about their fathers.

Wow the scene where Drogon recognises Jon was brilliant! I had goosebumps throughout. Also loved Dany's surprised look. Jon finally needs to know about his lineage. I really hope that still happens this season.

Another huge reveal (even though it was a throwaway line by Gilly of all people): Rhaegar's marriage annulment! I really did not expect that and was flabberghasted.

Yay for Ser Friendzone being back all cured and Dany being visibly pleased and even hugging him. That hasn't happened for awhile. Of course Jorah has new competition in Jon now, poor guy just cannot catch a break.

So disgusted by the fact that Cersei is pregnant again! I really hope she was lying and it's not Jaime's. Poor NCW having to play this Cersei-whipped version of the character, who is not recognisable from the books. :(  Still glad that Jaime survived because I have not given up hope that he might turn against Cersei one day. Maybe her "don't betray me again" line was foreshadowing? Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

Loved the last shot of all these diverse characters joining up and going beyond the Wall to fight the WW. This week's episode was not as good as last week's (but then again how could it?), but it still provided plenty of highlights. Oh and I hope that Arya will kill Littlefinger soon!

[WearyTraveler]

If Jon's parentage and legitimacy weren't important / significant to the endgame, I doubt the show would invest any time on the subject.  As it is, we first had the ToJ reveal where we cut from Baby Jon to grown Jon; this season, Rhaegar has been mentioned every episode, and we just learned he married Lyanna and Jon is a legitimate Targ.  Why is the show telling us all this? Why are they specifically spending time on this reveal when given the time it takes people to travel across Westeros now, they are clearly focusing on moving the plot forward at any cost? Because Jon being the rightful heir is important.  If it were only about a potential identity crisis for Jon, they didn't need him to be legitimate, he could have an identity crisis by being Rhaegar's bastard son too, but it's about more than that because his being legitimate is important for other reasons.  The only reason his legitimacy matters is that it makes him the heir to the Iron Throne.

That said, yes, it's true that Westerosi history has precedents for when the law of male primogeniture wasn't followed; it's true there are examples in medieval history when this didn't happen either; it's true that current monarchical rules don't necessarily apply to Westeros; and it's true that the Iron Throne can be taken by right of conquest.  However, think about the regular, not obsessed viewer.  What do hey know? What do they care about?  I mean, I know someone who is not stupid, and still thought, after the ToJ, that Jon was Robert and Lyanna's son.  In this episode, the shot paused long enough on the letter to read that it was signed by Sansa, and we still have people in this thread thinking that it was Lysa's letter to Cat.

The truth is, most people don't pay as much attention as we do.  Things need to be spelled out.  Sadly, the majority of the audience doesn't know shit about primogeniture and lines of succession in the real world, much less in Westeros.   So, this reveal with Jon is meant to tell everyone that he is the rightful heir, by law.

Can someone make a case for Danny being heir? Sure, but look at how much writing you need to do to make that case and think about how they would convey that in a show that has Jon going from Winterfell to Dragonstone to Eastwatch in the space of a month or so because the geography of Westeros is immaterial to the plot points they want to make. 

Can someone make a case that the Iron Throne belongs to those who can take it? That too, and what better example than Cersei sitting her smug ass in there.  But the show is clearly telling us that Cersei sitting there is wrong, wrong, wrong.  And the show has made a big deal out of Dany being the rightful heir, as the last Targ in the world.  Now the show is making a big deal out Jon being legitimate.  It's simple, by law the throne is his.  Will that alone make him King of Westeros in the end? Probably not, plus, there's the fact that he doesn't seem to have such ambitions for himself.  If he ends up in that chair, it won't be because he actively sought it out or chose it for himself, but because he earned it and because he feels he has the responsibility to take it (as Rhaegar's son and rightful heir).

The audience won't care that a hundred something years ago there was a "Dance of the Dragons" war because male primogeniture was ignored.  The audience won't care what the many Aegons, Aerysis, and Maekars did in Westeros' past, they won't care that medieval history has examples where male primogeniture was not followed.  They will care about what the show has established as the rule of Law in Westeros, which is that male primogeniture wins.  That's why it was so important that Robert's children weren't really his but the product of Cersei's infidelity, and that's why we keep hearing about the rightful heir to the throne or to the seat of any major house (even in today's episode, when Tyrion is trying to convince Dickon to bend the knee).  And that's why we are learning about Jon's legitimacy.

Personally, I think that in the books Martin will go with Targ polygamy to establish this (if he ever finishes, that is).  And that Jon's claim, as compared to Danny's and fAegon's will be explored in more depth.  We may even have other characters make the arguments many people on these boards are making because in the books, that's probably the purpose of all the history, to create a conflict when it comes to who should rule.  But on the show, there's no time for any of that.  There's only time for major plot points, battles and dragons.  So, yeah, Jon is the rightful heir to the throne on the show.

Edited August 14, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[patchwork]

Arya holds a grudge so I can see her looking for and seeing season 1 Sansa in current day Sansa but I'm hoping that this is leading up to the sisters joining forces to take down Littlefinger rather than them falling into one of his schemes.

I didn't get a chance to comment on last week's episode so I'll say this here, Arya has a distinctive Braavos style of fighting and Littlefinger has connections to that country both by blood and by being the former Master of Coins so I think he recognised the water dance style but he didn't link Arya to the House of Black and White. He's doesn't know she's a Faceless Man (woman?) assassin just that she was in Braavos long enough to learn how to fight. I remember from the books that street challenges were common. Littlefinger is dismissing Arya as another Stark all temper and no brains and he's planning to use that trait to isolate Sansa from her family while promoting her to QitN. 

It's no coincidence that the grumbling Northern lords are now wondering if they should have chosen Sansa as their leader and Littlefinger is leading Arya to the letter Sansa wrote to Robb while she was a hostage. Littlefinger even while in the North is plotting how to get his backside on the Iron Throne.

That Sansa has thought in the back of her mind that if Jon dies she'll need the support of the lords to keep the North together isn't surprising, it's normal for someone in her position. I'd be more surprised if she wasn't considering the angles.

[Snakelite]

I was hoping that the show was leading up to Jon and Dany riding north together on Drogon so that she could see the army of the dead for herself. It would have been a great scene and also would have helped to advance their relationship. I imagine they'll ride Drogon together before the series ends.

As for which one is the true heir, the only thing that matters is who the dragons are loyal to. Whoever has the dragons has the Iron Throne if that is what they want. The most obvious ending would be for Jon and Dany to marry so that the dragons don't have to choose, but somehow I see someone else entirely on the Iron Throne. 

[Insomnia]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

 Night's watch vows, he gave up his right when he took them. His coming back from the dead doesn't put him back in the front of the line.

But if that' the case he can't be King in the North, and killed for being a deserter. The vows only go to death. His watch has ended.

[MadMouse]

6 minutes ago, Snakelite said:

I was hoping that the show was leading up to Jon and Dany riding north together on Drogon so that she could see the army of the dead for herself. It would have been a great scene and also would have helped to advance their relationship. I imagine they'll ride Drogon together before the series ends.

As for which one is the true heir, the only thing that matters is who the dragons are loyal to. Whoever has the dragons has the Iron Throne if that is what they want. The most obvious ending would be for Jon and Dany to marry so that the dragons don't have to choose, but somehow I see someone else entirely on the Iron Throne. 

Daeron the third of his name, called the Uniter brought peace to Westeros after the second long night, alongside his sister wife Visenya the Spring Queen. Raised by their cousin and regent, Lady Stark. 

[The Kings Foot]

One note TV Gendry is a mix of two book characters - Gendry and Edric. And Edric is a recognized though not legitimized Baratheon. 

 

Could have implications for TV Gendry. 

[FemmyV]

Quote

If Jon's parentage and legitimacy weren't important / significant to the endgame, I doubt the show would invest any time on the subject.  As it is, we first had the ToJ reveal where we cut from Baby Jon to grown Jon; this season, Rhaegar has been mentioned every episode, and we just learned he married Lyanna and Jon is a legitimate Targ.  Why is the show telling us all this?

Lest we forget, all the way back to book 1, season 1, the mystery of Jon's parentage was put in front of our noses, with Ned's refusal to name his baby mama. He may not end up on the throne, but his heritage will be an important plot point either way.

As for his Night's Watch vows: Jon Snow took those vows, and died in the Night's Watch. Aegon (or whatever his name is) Targaryen doesn't owe the NW a thing.

Edited August 14, 2017 by FemmyV

[areca]

8 hours ago, sumiregusa said:

Came here to say this. Chemistry is subjective so I won't try to convince anyone of whether Jon/Dany have it or don't. Their scenes are just very deliberate and sorry but that's as close as Emilia Clarke comes to showing attraction to anyone who isn't Jason Momoa. In fact, I think she's toeing the line of falling for Jon but still trying to act like a queen very well. JMO.

I think it's not working, in any way, for me because what, in their...2nd or 3rd scene together, she was already starting with the moon eyes?  Each scene had been them spending approximately...30-45 minutes together over the course of several weeks?  With Drogo, you saw her sale, captivity, slow integration into the Dothraki way of life, mutual attraction, love, and respect develop over a significant period of time with her and Drogo.  The screen time made it believable.  I don't believe a damn thing about Dany and Jon.  It's just bad.  Really not satisfying.

Edited August 14, 2017 by areca

[The Kings Foot]

1 hour ago, BooBear said:

Ugh I thought the entire episode was terrible. Gendry was super forced. When I saw him i thought they were getting him to make their dragon ice weapons but then he hauls off and wants to go fighting the dead? Where did that come from? Gendry never seemed particularly interested in adventure before.  As fans have noted he was way too stoked to be meeting Jon and not mentioning Arya was stupid but I believe on purpose because they didn't want to start the Gendry / Arya ship again.  Had they simply made more dialog about needing someone who knew how to forge weapons it would have made sense. 

Jamie is just... at this point I don't know if I care if he lives. I mean it is sad to see someone so whipped.  What is the point of a child... if they will all die? I bet that Cerci will end up married to Euron and say it is his kid. 

I hate the winter fell plot. It is beyond contrived. Arya... get with the program. Sansa has changed a lot -- to me that is obvious -- and was right to say what she said.  If you have nothing better to do than go kill Cerci and do us all a favor.  I hope that plot ends soon.  Kind of irked that the "revelation" that Arya and Bran were alive was left to one line spoken by John. 

I did like Drogon going over to Jon, but was frustrated that Dani made so little of it. How often have you seen Drogon go seek out any human? That should have been headline news. 

I feel bad for Dickon but he made his choice.  I can't feel bad for Sam's dad.  Does this mean that Sam now inherits dad's money?

I also feel they are being terribly nieve with Cerci... first.. thinking that she just needs to be "convinced" I swear Sansa was needed in that room to remind everyone that Cerci is a special kind of arrogant stupid. Why exactly do they need her support? They just took most of her army? She is really sort of joke now. So to risk life and limb to get a wright? Seems like a stall.  Though the night king is powerful.. I am starting to feel like John is over hyping it. They have dragons, which could take out thousands in 2 or three breaths... they have the rest of the free world ready to fight with dragon glass.. Err, I think we are ready without Cerci. Ships are of no use in the north. 

Gendry doing these actions is forced. Edric doing them is not. 

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, TheGourmez said:

Everyone on Twitter kept saying Suicide Squad and that just made me inexorably sad for humanity. My first power walk memory was probably Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Ooooh. I was thinking it reminded me of something I'd seen but couldn't recall where. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That's it! Thanks!

[SoWindsor]

8 hours ago, stagmania said:

He is Rhaegar's heir. Rhaegar became king when Aerys died, so Jon would have a claim. Daenerys also has a claim, though, so I don't think it's clear cut. 

That would be like Prince Andrew inheriting over Prince William. The line of succession would be like you said Rhaegar's heir. 

[cambridgeguy]

I can't believe Tyrion didn't mention Shae being in Tywin's bed. 

So Jon and his suicide squad are heading beyond the wall, on foot, into a blinding snowstorm, to capture a zombie even though these zombies can move quickly.  Any of those fools surviving will be a bigger stretch than Bronn and Jaime somehow swimming a mile down the river.

[SoWindsor]

8 hours ago, LanceM said:

Dany's claim comes from being Viserys's heir. Viserys was crowned King on Dragonstone prior to them fleeing to Essos.

Jon's claim would be that he is Rhaegar's trueborn son.

Whose claim is stronger depends on who you ask.  Look back at the war of the 5 kings and who was supporting Renly and Stannis.

Interesting I didn't know that Viserys was crowned. Was that in the show or just the books?

[jacehan]

6 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Yes, we need a Smith. In my opinion it will take 7 people to take down the Night King and those men are not the right 7.

I like the way you are thinking. If so, hypothesis:

 

Mother - Dany

Maiden - Brienne

Crone - Melisandre

Father - Jaime (?)

Warrior - Jon

Smith - Gendry

Stranger - Arya

[Eyes High]

I really liked Varys' bit about how when the Mad King burned people, he would tell himself that he wasn't the one doing it. I thought the writing was very uneven in this episode, but when it was good, it was very, very good.

NCW did a nice job conveying that Jaime was traumatized over seeing Drogon in action. I also enjoyed seeing Jaime's usual arrogance punctured like a balloon.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Eyes High

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, doram said:

I hope Tyrion remembers to tell himself that he's the reason those 2 gold cloaks got their brains smashed in. Or are his pangs of humanity a plot-convenient on/off switch?

Eh. If Dany doesn't want to invite comparisons with her father, she should think twice before burning people alive as a form of punishment. Varys and Tyrion are entitled to feel disturbed by that, since they're the ones who have helped unleash her on Westeros.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Eyes High

[Paradigm14]

7 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I'm not sure it would be to Westeros.  Her "claim" is that her ancestor Aegon took control of Westeros by force, killing thousands and usurping thrones of the other kings of Westeros.  When House Targaryen itself gets overthrown and the Throne get re-usurped, it's hard for her to argue "Oh, noes, that doesn't count.  My line should still rule."  

Those who live by the gun, die by the gun.  Goose, meet gander.  And so on and so forth.  

So, I'm not sure she should expect the people of Westeros to applaud her return.  Don't get me wrong:  I'm not saying she shouldn't seek the throne because right now, she's as much a contender as anyone else; just that she shouldn't expect the people of Westeros to feel the same way about it.  They don't necessarily see a triumphant return; they may, as Randall Tarly did, see a foreign invader.  

Yeah, I actually think if she'd taken a more servile role (which wouldn't happen here due to time) to serve the people and prove to them that she's one of them and in their interests, then she could get support without burning anyone.

[magpye29]

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

Regarding the Arya/Littlefinger stuff, why wasn't she using her Faceless Man powers when following him around?

So that Littlefinger could see her coming out of his chambers and know she took the bait to look at the scroll.

[Haleth]

Man, Bron and Jaime could hold their breath a long time, swimming a couple miles underwater away from the battle field.

Hi Dickon.  Bye Dickon.  That was quick.  War is hell.

Loved the Jon/dragon bonding.  That was Drogon?  I thought/was hoping it was one of the others so Jon could have his own pet dragon.  Imagine if he had made a quick trip to Winterfell on one of the dragons.  That would have put an end to all the grumbling and plotting.  Jon is the boss.  Period.  (The whole Sansa vs Arya plot is tedious.  I get where they're going with this, most likely ending with Arya stabbing LF with his own knife, but in the meantime it's a ridiculous distraction from the important plot.)

Hi Gendry.  Nice to see you are no longer rowing.  (That Davos has a way with words.)  It would have been nice for him to mention Arya to Jon, but since they were discussing their fathers I can see why her name didn't come up immediately.  They had a long voyage to East Watch to catch up on family matters.  (If you think Arya is going to end up with Gendry you haven't been paying attention.  The LAST thing Arya wants or needs is a love interest.)

I'm sure most of the casual viewers missed the throw away line about Rhaegar's annulment and secret marriage.

9 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Jon's magnificent seven, should be interesting dynamic between all of them. Can you imagine someone telling you that Jon, Tormund, Beric, Throros, The Hound and Gendry would be leading a party north of the wall two seasons ago? I also want to give some love to Richard Dormer, in show with tons of great performances his gets overlooked but when Beric is on screen the guy is fantastic.

This.  I squeed and clapped at the final image of this group going through the Wall.  Perhaps the best thing about the show vs the book is that Beric is still with us.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Haleth

[Uncle JUICE]

I hate to say it and I hope someone else already has but in the immortal words of Freddy Mercury:

NO .NO .NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. Oh mamma mia...

Maybe a rewatch will change my mind, but GOT did the one thing I thought they absolutely could not do after last week's ending: the classic "Coming up in the river like a mile away, just out of breath." Not only is it lazy writing, it is well on impossible. I don't want to get into a nerd rage (was there a current strong enough to carry a fully armored man a mile down river at TEN FEET BELOW THE SURFACE?!?!?), but seriously, this show does so much against standard tv expectations, to see them succumb to this one really colored the whole episode for me, and it made what's probably an OKAY epsiode really feel like shit. So after being out of breath, in battle, and covered in armor with a METAL FUCKING HAND, Jaime survived because Bronn is somehow also aquaman? Conservatively how far from the battle were they according to the beginning of the show? Half a mile? A mile? Come on.

Everything of note that this episode accomplished could have been accomplished with Jaime as a prisoner, or dead, which were the only two options that make any sense (even if that water was for some reason THAT deep right there where he fell, a hundred yards before that his horse was ankle deep). What's more, they all could have had more heft. Want Jaime and Tyrion to meet again and have Tyrion give Jaime the lay of the land? Reverse their former roles, have Jaime priosner to Dany, have him send a scroll similar to the one Arya saw Littlefinger have (ugh, with that whole god damn mess) saying "we must surrender, I'm a prisoner," and Cersei being like "nah, sorry. Can't." (This also eliminates the very precarious "Cersei's pregs!" storyline). Then you can have Tyrion, John, Danyers all talk about what really matters (the white walkers) and offer Cersei cessation of hostilities temporarily, Jaime's safety as a hostage, for the same. I don't even want to talk about how stupid the winterfell plot's getting. Very disappointed with this episode. 

[SeanC]

The Vox reviewer noted how empty King's Landing feels at this point.  The place is a ghost town populated by Cersei, Jaime, and a few minions.

[YaddaYadda]

I really liked the episode as a whole. I thought it was entertaining, had its light moments.

Jon/Drogon/Dany was sort of emotional. Like Dany is getting emotional because Jon is patting Drogon and she can't believe it, and Drogon is getting all affectionate because Jon, and Jon is not being barbecued by the giant dragon. It was good.

Dickon/Randyll. Dickon absolutely died stupidly. He didn't need to die. His father didn't want him to die, but I guess Tom Hopper who looked extra fine probably has other things lined up next season, but I'm assuming this was all done to open the way to Sam to be the Lord of Horn Hill at some point. Sam won't become a maester because they're like the cool kids who exist in an echo chamber, enjoy the sound of their voices. 

Sansa/Arya/LF. I hate the plot in the north. I hate Glover. That asshat was talking treason against his king. So he can go now, and die. I don't think he should be allowed to fight with dragonglass. Let's see how he likes that. How do we keep these characters relevant while the main character and plot is elsewhere?

Is it me, or was Jorah marking his territory with Dany at the end there when he grabbed her hands and kissed them? That was so weird. I'm also unable to separate book Jorah from show Jorah after last night because of that. Book Jorah always creeped the shit out of me. He's unrepentant and obsessive and I would probably have hated show Jorah if not for Iain Glenn and the writing cleaning him up a bit. I always found it sad that Jeor ended up with that sad excuse for a son.

Did show Jorah know Thoros? Book Jorah knows him, but I don't remember show Jorah ever mentioning him, so that came out of nowhere. 

I missed Tormund, and I really enjoyed Davos. 

How do we keep Cersei relevant? Let's give her a bunch of victories, have Mycroft tell her how Tywin she is and let's make her pregnant too! Why is she pregnant? What purpose does it serve other than make me angry and keeping that moron twin of hers joined to her hip. "Don't ever betray me again." wow! you horrible person!

Jon, Gendry and no degrees of separation. Robert and Ned were great friends, Robert hated Rhaegar and killed him on the Trident. I laughed and laughed because irony. I'd think that Arya would be the topic of conversation between Gendry and Jon, more so than the fathers because Jon had zero interaction with him and Gendry spent a whole 2 minutes with Ned. I guess they needed to focus on the fathers because of all the implications that has.

Rhaegar>>>>>>> Ragger

Gilly was funny going over High Septon Maynard's diary. The steps in the Citadel and the Sept of Baelor that doesn't exist anymore. I enjoy the lighter moments like these. And poor sweet Sam. He has no idea his father and stupid brother are dead and the Citadel is not what he had expected. Talk about having your dreams crushed by a bunch of old farts.

[The Kings Foot]

On another note. People do realize Dragon glass /obsidian is a stone and not a metal. You don't forge it. And Gendry would be useless. 

 

Tormund would have a better idea what to do. 

[Drogo]

Tyrion:  Daenerys will win this war.

Me:  Oh fuck, Daenerys is not going to win this war.

[EyesGlazed]

Operation NitWight is such a stupid plan on so many levels.  Tyrion's battle plans have been crap this season and Dany knows it, so why does she agree to this?  Why send your two best warriors, Jon and Jorah, on this likely fatal escapade?  How do you "capture" a wight without killing it?  How do you get it from above the Wall to Knight's Landing and how long would that take?  And then all the characters ignore the fact the Cersei is batshit crazy.  What do they think is going to happen, that she'll take one look at the wight and say "okay, I get it, let's band together and be allies right away!"  Nooooo!  More likely she'd want to give the wight to her Maester to turn it into another weapon she can use against Dany and take anyone who brought the wight prisoner.  While I certainly enjoyed the Magnificent Seven heading out into the blizzard, that was a small bit of icing on an otherwise crap plot cake.

Also:  there better not be a real break between Sansa and Arya or I'll be pissed.  They have both gone through so much.  It's time to be mature, Arya, instead of sniping at Sansa about things you don't understand and weren't around for.  Also, Arya better not be stupid enough to fall for Littlefinger's clunkingly obvious "clues"  "Yeah, I'm going to conspire about a secret scroll right out in the hallway in front of my room so anyone passing by can hear it or see it."  Don't fall for it.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The line of succession isn't handed down by God from on high.  There are numerous times in English history where the younger sibling or that sibling's descendants became King or Queen.

It also does no good to point to the current British royal family to prove what should happen in Westeros.  If the line of succession had been followed, the Hanovers/Windsors would never had inherited the throne

There's also no guarantee that the annulment of Rhaegar's marriage would have been accepted as valid by Aerys or society in general had it been disclosed at the time

I have made the point about the various types of successions that occurred through the English monarchy several times. Not to mention that Aerys cut off Rhaeger's heirs as his successors by making Viserys his heir. 

[SimoneS]

31 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The Vox reviewer noted how empty King's Landing feels at this point.  The place is a ghost town populated by Cersei, Jaime, and a few minions.

This accurately reflects their marginalized and unnecessary role in the story, IMO.  Cersei has nothing to contribute so the show manufactures plot devices like the wight capture to keep her involved.

[jcin617]

3 hours ago, BooBear said:

Does this mean that Sam now inherits dad's money?

He can't inherit his title or land because of his NW vows, but they don't anything about money.   Although I suspect the bulk of the money is in the land.   Sam took their Valerian steel sword, did he not?  That's probably worth more at this point.

Interesting that Tyrion et al. either assumed Dickon was the only son, or knew that the only other Tarly was a member of the NW since he kept referring to "the end of your house".

[SoWindsor]

25 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

On another note. People do realize Dragon glass /obsidian is a stone and not a metal. You don't forge it. And Gendry would be useless. 

 

Tormund would have a better idea what to do. 

Wouldn't they need to attach the dragon glass to metal?

[mikal768]

11 hours ago, Skeeter22 said:

Was Rhaegar trying to turn all of the ruling houses against his family? What a dick. 

He thought he was fulfilling the prophecy of the Prince Who Was Promised to save the world... which he might have done.

Making the marriage of ice and fire legitimate also provides said Prince with the backing of the Seven Kingdoms once Rhaegar took care of Robert, and called the Council to depose his father as he planned... 

But like most plans, it (and he) didn't survive contact with the enemy, and thus the cluster they have today.

Edited August 14, 2017 by mikal768

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, doram said:

Tyrion wasn't upset about the burning. He was upset because she killed them. He suggested Randyll go to the wall and Dickon to the prison. The whole discussion was about Dany taking lives and it's a narrative whip lash that in the same episode, Tyrion caused those 2 gold cloaks to needlessly die and is all chirper about it.

No, Varys and Tyrion's discussion was about burning Randyll and Dickon alive, which is why Varys was reminiscing about his memories of purveying information to Aerys that resulted in people being burned alive.

 

3 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

Interesting that Tyrion et al. either assumed Dickon was the only son, or knew that the only other Tarly was a member of the NW since he kept referring to "the end of your house".

Could plausibly be the latter, since Sam is sworn to the NW.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

He thought he was fulfilling the prophecy of the Prince Who Was Promised to save the world... which he might have done.

And all it cost him were the lives of his other children, a whole lot of men, and most of his family.  If he really didn't mind all the collateral damage he should have poisoned Elia and then married Lyanna.  Robert wouldn't have been happy but he wouldn't have been able to lead a rebellion.

 

Oh, and I like the wink about Jon being short.  I wonder what sort of creative shots they've had to come up with over the years to make sure he doesn't look like a shrimp next to his taller castmates.

Edited August 14, 2017 by cambridgeguy

[Drogo]

Ser Davos Smuggling Inc...

[Tikichick]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Hey does anyone find it ironic that fat beta-male Sam is probably getting the most sex out of anyone in Westeros? He and Gilly obviously have a very loving relationship.

Nope, hold your ravens right there.  A certain Cersei of House Lannister has time to take out a ton of enemies by torching the Sept, oversee brilliant strategic military missions, repay the Iron Bank in one fell swoop, receive marriage proposals, get satisfaction for the murder of her daughter, take the Iron Throne -- and still get her groove thing.

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, dbell1 said:

So, if Prince Raghar married Lyanne Stark, that makes Jon King over Dany.  If only Sam didn't tune out Gilly's babbling like normal, he'd have the next piece of the puzzle.

Sam doesn't need that information right now though. In that moment, it felt more like fodder for gossip than crucial information. 

10 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I think this episode is proving that Sansa is more a kings landing type of leader than a winterfell leader. She plays the game, better then most nowadays. North don't have the time for games so they're straight to the point. 

The North does have time to play apparently, given how Glover is there bitching about Jon being away and how they maybe should have gone for Sansa to lead them. 

Also Royce should take several seats. The first person to die on the show and the books ever was his son. So he needs to shut his trap. 

I would really like to see dragonglass starting to arrive at Winterfell in the remaining episodes. 

10 hours ago, stagmania said:

He is Rhaegar's heir. Rhaegar became king when Aerys died, so Jon would have a claim. Daenerys also has a claim, though, so I don't think it's clear cut. 

No, he didn't. Rhaegar died before Aerys did, and Aerys bypassed Aegon and named Viserys his heir which raises tons of questions (for me at least). Aerys sent Rhaella and Viserys to Dragonstone and kept Elia and her kids with him at the Red Keep. When Aerys died, Rhaella crowned Viserys. 

9 hours ago, Lemuria said:

I find it interesting that the annulment was in Dorne.  You would think that Doran might object.  I'm wondering if one of the reasons for the annulment was because Aerys was holding her as a hostage--it seems Rhaegar was treating with some of the lords with an eye toward deposing his increasingly-insane father--and if the marriage was annulled, it might convince Aerys that Rhaegar didn't care about her and Aerys might let her go.  (I'm also wondering if the marriage had been more of a political alliance than a love match and perhaps neither of them was happy.)

This whole hiding out in Dorne is so bizarre. And it's not like the ToJ is isolated or anything like that. There are two castles not that "far" from it. And if you're held up somewhere for months, you need to have food. They might have gotten that from the caravans that pass there. But the Dornish might have known where Rhaegar was, because how do you hide him (unless he's been dying his hair), and Arthur Dayne is there, and he is Dornish and everyone knows the Sword of the Morning. But in King's Landing, people have no clue where Rhaegar has gone. 

The whole thing is just a whole lot of questions with no answers.

[The Kings Foot]

14 minutes ago, SoWindsor said:

Wouldn't they need to attach the dragon glass to metal?

Why would they need to do that.? This is a stone age weapon they're making. All they need to do it chip the stone into a cutting edge then tie a handle to it. 

[Constantinople]

I'm curious what the grounds for annulment were.  I hope they're disclosed at some point.

The more I find out about Rhaegar, the less admirable  I find him

[Tikichick]

Personally would love to have the time available to see Cersei end up giving birth to a dwarf.

Director's note -- extreme close up on her face when the child is held up for her to see.

[BooBear]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

Personally would love to have the time available to see Cersei end up giving birth to a dwarf.

Director's note -- extreme close up on her face when the child is held up for her to see.

She is getting older.. there are a number of horrors that could come her way. She could also die in childbirth.

[patchwork]

6 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I'm curious what the grounds for annulment were.  I hope they're disclosed at some point.

The more I find out about Rhaegar, the less admirable  I find him

Infertility would be my guess.

[BooBear]

49 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

On another note. People do realize Dragon glass /obsidian is a stone and not a metal. You don't forge it. And Gendry would be useless. 

 

I did not.. so now the Gendry thing is super strained.

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, jacehan said:

Mother - Dany

Maiden - Brienne

Crone - Melisandre

Father - Jaime (?)

Warrior - Jon

Smith - Gendry

Stranger - Arya

Yep. Good list. Perhaps Varys is the Stranger?  He isn't a warrior but Arya makes sense too. She brings death, makes people uncomfortable. So does Gregain. He only has half a face and brings death.

[WatchrTina]

4 hours ago, TheGourmez said:

Everyone on Twitter kept saying Suicide Squad and that just made me inexorably sad for humanity. My first power walk memory was probably Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Oh you sweet summer child.  That team heading out into the snow was clearly an homage to The Magnificent Seven, a 1960 western movie (remade in 2016) that was itself an American remake of Akira Kurosawa's 1954 masterpiece, Seven Samaurai.  The "Dirty Dozen" (1967) is probably also an inspiration.

Edited August 14, 2017 by WatchrTina

[jacehan]

I picked Arya for Stranger thanks to her Facelessness, as, if I recall, the Stranger has no face.

[Tikichick]

10 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Then Dany is the heir. Brings me back to  why are so many people claiming Jon is?

Cersei aside, I believe Jon also edges out Dany by virtue of a penis. 

[Drogo]

11 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Is there even any reason to bring back Gendry at this point beyond letting Davos get all meta and fan servicey in joking that he's been rowing all this time?

I think it's pretty cool that Robert Baratheon's son and Rhaegar Targaryen's son will be fighting together.  Robert's son with a hammer, Rhaegar's with a sword, this time on the same side.