S13.E08: Week 8: Hometown Dates

[waving feather]

I don't get why Peter is stressing out so much about having to propose and potentially getting engaged. He's not even in the Top 2 YET. In Desiree's season, at least she was very obvious about who she was intending to pick, but I felt that Rachel also has good connection with the other guys left. If Peter is truly interested in Rachel, he would be more concerned that he may not be the last one standing, not that he will have this burden to propose. I don't know, it's just weird where all his angst comes from.

[Canada]

I had to turn this off after the Eric date.  It was painful to watch and I knew worse was coming.  This season is a bust in terms of the guys and Rachel has proven to be an average Bachelorette.

Eric seems like a nice guy, but it's painful for me to listen to him speak.  It's not the accent or dialect that bugs me, it's the endless rambling.  He's one of those people who thinks that using more words makes him sound deep and intelligent.  It doesn't.  It just comes across as rambling and makes it hard to have a conversation, as he's not really listening.

Dean's dad - I have no words.  I don't think he's genuine for one moment.  From what I saw in the frequent previews, he looks and acts like no Sikh I've ever met.  Completely fake, embarrassing.

[HeyThere83]

I don't see why she would not let him go before Dean if that were the case. That way it would not look like she was letting Dean go because of his family and after she apparently said I love you to him. Her answer as to why she let Peter go could have been simple. But this is two weeks now where the theme is Peter is not ready and she keeps him around. It seems more like a she might sort of upset because she really wants to pick him but isn't really liking some things she's hearing.

 

Should have quoted ridethemaverick....RE: Rachel/Peter

Edited July 18, 2017 by HeyThere83

[Alapaki]

3 hours ago, In2You said:

Bryan's mom mentioned not taking him away from the family because that happens in some marriages. The man and the woman will get married, the mil and wife won't get along and then after they have kids they stop talking to the mil. 

I realize that this is a concern of some mothers-of-sons.  And I get that the timeline on "relationships" bets ridiculously accelerated on this show.  But to threaten your son's date the first time you meet them?  And we've already been given the history of this happening with Bryan's last girlfriend at a time that I understood to be early on in that relationship.

I just get a super creepy vibe from this mother-son relationship.  I got a similar vibe from Chris Soules' mother during her visits with the F2 in Iowa.  Bryan's mom seemed much more explicit about it, but that may just be a personality thing.

From what little we saw last night, it seems to me that this is a situation where no woman is ever going to be good enough for Bryan as far as his mother is concerned.  And as far as she is concerned, Bryan will always be right.  I doubt that there will ever be a major decision that Bryan makes in any relationship in which he doesn't do exactly whatever his mother tells him to do.  

[fib]

3 hours ago, JoBeth70 said:

I can't imagine someone hasn't toppled over by now. Some of those women really fling themselves at the bachelors. A great SNL parody would have the men wrapping themselves around the Bachelorette. Now that would make me laugh.

My 2.5 yo, 30 lb son does this to me... sort of.  I squat to his level, he runs and hugs me (but there is no leg wrapping).  I topple over 60% of the time.  He thinks thats hilarious.  

[comosedice]

17 minutes ago, LBS said:

- Peter's hometown seemed to be a Bachelor audition tape.  From his line about being too rational to find love to his mom confirming he's not ready for marriage, it just screamed "Last season I couldn't fall in love because my head wouldn't listen to my heart blah blah blah".   (Which now that I think about was Rachel's hook this season).  On a shallow note - his mom had the best "let me speak to your manager" haircut I've seen in a while.

Dean's hometown seemed like the Bachelor audition tape and many people on Twitter are calling for him to be the next Bachelor. His search for love would seem genuine because of his family history; the lead told him back that she was also falling in love with him and then dumped him, so he has a broken heart that needs mending; his sister says how strong of a person he is; he knows what kind of father he wants to be because of what he didn't have.

[Wouldofshouldof]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I am now convinced that Dean is one of the most beautiful men I've ever witnessed.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  You can have Dean, I'll take Peter.  

[fib]

19 minutes ago, LBS said:

I can't snark on Dean's hometown.   Therapy on TV is not a good thing and I was uneasy watching actual real anger and sadness play out.

Earlier in the season, a bunch of us remarked on the difference between Peter's eloquence about his past relationships, and how it showed he had worked through things in therapy, and compared that to Dean's conparative lack of eloquence about his mom's passing. To me it was tragic to see the group of broken people who clearly needed, and still need, therapy to get past their grief and failures. I felt for all of them: they all still need therapy.  And this show? Not the place to get it.  

That said, Rachel pissed me off on this date: she just swooped in from her perfect family life to tell Dean, "dont you think you should tell him you love him?"   Oh hell no Rachel.  You dont get to tell someone their lived experience and their reaction to it is wrong based on your opinion of it.  Your life experience is exactly the wrong kind of experience to rely on to base your recommendations on.  I felt fir Dean a LOT in that moment, because he clearly needs emotional support and was falling for Rachel. So he took several steps he wasnt ready for, ON TV, and then she dumps him?  Ugh.  Here Dean, have a hug.  Rachel owes you a big old apology.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

THIS explains why I love Dean so much. He's like a reincarnated Brandon Walsh (though I was always a Dylan McKay girl).

To me Dean looks like Vanilla Ice except insanely insanely gorgeous.   Like what if Vanilla Ice was beautiful?

I agree, he sets all of us 'grown up in the 90s' women's hearts a-flutter.  Yes we're a bit older but I've always liked younger guys anyway.  He just seems so sweet. 

3 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

When it came down to the last rose, I just shook my head. Dean and Peter are so hot. I'd be throwing roses at them and begging them to stay. That's probably why I'm alone. I'm shallow.

Same, except I didn't even notice Dean and Peter at first.  Diggy was my immediate 'type'.  Dean's vulnerability absolutely kills me and Peter is the shiny toy everyone wants so now I can't help but look.  But he's too good-looking.  I'm not interested in dating the sun.  LOL.  

[catrice2]

 This whole death threat stuff has me riled up.

I am way more put off by Rachel being a counselor and/or mother to Dean and Eric than I am with Peter not saying I love your or Bryan declaring undying love and affection.   I thought the show was about finding love and not about the proposal? I keep getting conflicting information, some people say it usually ends in a proposal, but that there is no rule that it has to, and others say no, you have to propose it is part of the deal?   I would have actually rather her agree to date someone long term even Eric, Dean or BRYAN than do the whole this is my soulmate, undying love tour.   Didn't Ben and Lauren do that and TMZ says she is in a relationship just a few weeks after breaking up with (and living together) Ben?   The idea of real, undying love is different in Bachelor universe, which is another reason I have never understood making the lead a former contestant.  They look extremely shallow to go from I was ready to marry xxx to I am ready to make out with 25 people within two to three months. 

I was hoping before the show even started that Rachel would be one the one to break the mold and just admit that it is more of a "getting to know you" than it is a "let's head to the alter."   Either way she is taking a risk.....Eric who has never had a real, adult, healthy relationship at 30, Dean who has never grieved his mother properly and has family issues, Bryan who may not be realistic/genuine and it would appear may have some mother issues, and Peter who seems to be too introverted, may be here for the wrong reasons and does not open up.  My question is why does Peter's issues bother people more than the other red flags about the rest of the guys?

Reading snarky recaps it sounds as if Eric did not really say he loved her-he qualified that it meant he "liked" her, Dean said he was falling in love with her and Bryan said he loved her.  So why is one person getting all the hate for not saying I love you?  That is just strange and creepy.  Anyone sending death threats to Rachel or Peter need treatment. 

 Rachel controls who she keeps and lets go, so I don't understand why crazies would not be more upset with her for keeping him when he won't commit than with the fact that he won't commit.  If he was telling me that  and I didn't feel wanted I would never have taken him to hometowns and he would never make it to Spain. That just goes to show you how poor she thought the other two choices were in Adam and Matt.   If she did tell Dean she was falling in love with him and was not SHOWN to say that to the other men  and cut him then that was pretty awful.  It is much more likely that she did tell Bryan that she loved him or was falling in love with him and they didn't show it. 

At this point Rachel has known for some time who she was choosing so anyone she is keeping are being kept as fillers. Peter did not have a one on one date for weeks...I could see where it would be easy to second guess and not want to open up, especially when Bryan got two dates within a short time and came back with an engagement watch.   It is almost as if viewers feel that contestants should be so grateful and flattered that the lead is interested in them that they just tell them what they want to hear, as if the lead has been elevated to some supreme being just by being on this show.   I felt the same way when she was on Nick's season.  Everyone acted as if she should be grateful that he was paying attention to her.  Again, Peter is Rachel.  She is just bringing him along to wring the "I love you" out of him for ego reasons ( or producer manipulation) so that she can dramatically cut him, the same way Nick cut her.  If people don't like Peter, don't like Peter, but don't act as if he is doing anything differently than contestants before him.....including Rachel.   She kept saying that she knew the pressure of being the "first"  and being the lead and was ready for it etc. Even without the whole race issue, people have historically judged the lead for everything from their choices to their wardrobe and speech...so why is she always talking about it and crying tears ?  She also knew what she signed up for and put her name on the contract anyway.  She doesn't, however, deserve death threats or racist comments, but she should get exactly what she said she wanted...to be treated like every other lead including having people judge your decisions, choices, makeup and hair. 

Dean brought 3 or 4 outfits.  He clearly did not expect for her to have such a crappy group and make it to hometowns.  He is probably the only one of them that didn't think it was possible for them to get to his hometown and exploit his family...but he should have been prepared for the possibility if he watches the show.

I'm sorry, this goes beyond snarking and entertainment when people are threatening others. 

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

To me Dean looks like Vanilla Ice except insanely insanely gorgeous.   Like what if Vanilla Ice was beautiful?

I agree, he sets all of us 'grown up in the 90s' women's hearts a-flutter.  Yes we're a bit older but I've always liked younger guys anyway.  He just seems so sweet. 

Same, except I didn't even notice Dean and Peter at first.  Diggy was my immediate 'type'.  Dean's vulnerability absolutely kills me and Peter is the shiny toy everyone wants so now I can't help but look.  But he's too good-looking.  I'm not interested in dating the sun.  LOL.  

Good lord girl....Vanilla Ice was hot when he was younger....go back and check out the Ice Ice Baby video..those cheekbones......sigh! 

41 minutes ago, fib said:

Earlier in the season, a bunch of us remarked on the difference between Peter's eloquence about his past relationships, and how it showed he had worked through things in therapy, and compared that to Dean's conparative lack of eloquence about his mom's passing. To me it was tragic to see the group of broken people who clearly needed, and still need, therapy to get past their grief and failures. I felt for all of them: they all still need therapy.  And this show? Not the place to get it.  

That said, Rachel pissed me off on this date: she just swooped in from her perfect family life to tell Dean, "dont you think you should tell him you love him?"   Oh hell no Rachel.  You dont get to tell someone their lived experience and their reaction to it is wrong based on your opinion of it.  Your life experience is exactly the wrong kind of experience to rely on to base your recommendations on.  I felt fir Dean a LOT in that moment, because he clearly needs emotional support and was falling for Rachel. So he took several steps he wasnt ready for, ON TV, and then she dumps him?  Ugh.  Here Dean, have a hug.  Rachel owes you a big old apology.  

God more reason for me to skip this date.  I don't think it was appropriate for her, having known him for a few weeks, to tell him how he should relate to his family.  If she got rid of him because she didn't see a future with him....then she was right for that.  Better to do that than to expose him to her family.   Could she have thought seeing her family be functional might be hard for him? 

[truthaboutluv]

53 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  You can have Dean, I'll take Peter.  

And I'll pass on both. In fact, to be honest, I'm not physically into any of these guys. That's probably why I'm rarely attracted to the Bachelor. Because it's often a guy pulled from the previous season and I didn't find them interesting or attractive on the Bachelorette season. Peter is decently attractive but he is so robotic in his delivery and just seems so utterly bland that it kills any physical appeal he has. Bryan is not my type physically and same with Eric. Dean is cute but not hot, in my opinion. Though I will say I loved his suit last night and he was working. In fact, all the guys looked good for that rose ceremony. I loved Bryan's vest/tie combo as well. A man can never go wrong with a well-tailored suit in my eyes. 

[Temperance]

4 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

ive been saying for years they need a fresh search....the bachelor is supposed to be the ultimate guy, a fantasy, and the retreads are boring. nothing will ever be as magical as andrew firestones season, he was truly a catch and made for great tv.

I watched that season, and I didn't particularly remember him (Andrew) in that light. He was okay.  I also think his brother was somehow connected to show and that's why they picked him. 

[Primetimer]

Rachel heads home(town) with her remaining four men, with mixed results. Who will she eliminate based on their terrible family?

View the full article

[peachmangosteen]

Bryan's mom wasn't nearly as bad as I thought she was gonna be. He looks very similar to his mom. Anyway, Bryan has grown on me. He has a nice smile. 

I struggle to understand why Peter came on the show if he is so obviously put off by getting engaged so quickly. My sister said after he had his little talk with his friends, "This seems like a Bachelor audition." I still like him though.

Dean and Eric are both adorable and they're my faves.

[Suzysite]

Quote

Bryan's mom wasn't nearly as bad as I thought she was gonna be. He looks very similar to his mom.

I think we can put to rest the cheek implant rumors.   Mommy dearest has the same prominent cheekbones.

And maybe she WAS as bad as we thought.  Or worse.   Scary.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Suzysite

[Mooncake76]

2 hours ago, comosedice said:

I saw the goodbye differently. He had his head on the inside of the van looking at her like he didn't want her to go. It seems like the only gestures that matter are ones where kissing is involved. I think Peter's personality is very different from the others and he's just not that outwardly effusive, so he is seen as not interested. Rachel will not choose him but I am fully in his corner.

I'm a pretty reserved myself and wouldn't be kissing on everyone on national television. It wasn't that. It was the whole thing, when they were sitting on the porch steps and he said (very unconvincingly) how happy he was. It was all just very lukewarm. Even if someone is reserved, usually you can still tell how into someone they are by the the way they look at the other person, by how giddy they smile, and other little clues. Peter likes Rachel well enough as a person, but I don't sense that he's that into her romantically. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Mooncake76

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

To me Dean looks like Vanilla Ice except insanely insanely gorgeous.   Like what if Vanilla Ice was beautiful?

I think Vanilla Ice is kind of hot!  And so is Dean!

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, Suzysite said:

I think we can put to rest the cheek implant rumors.   Mommy dearest has the same prominent cheekbones.

His father seems to have them as well based on old pictures he's posted of him. Also he posted an old picture of him and his dad for Father's Day that looked like he was maybe 12/13 and I swear he had those cheeks then. So I think that just may be how he looks but so many have decided he has fillers and it's an opinion that's been repeated enough to where it's just become accepted as fact.

[After7Only]

14 hours ago, backformore said:

Eric's mom -  So, too many mom get overly connected to their mothers, and have trouble in relationships.  So she withheld love from him, so he wouldn't have mommy issues.

that is some seriously fucked up bullshit.

 

I heard her say something along the lines of some men in their family had certain (criminal/relationship) issues because of how their mothers raised them.  There are mothers, sometimes single mothers, who raise their sons to be substitute husbands almost.  Meaning they overly dote on them and do not teach them accountabilty, responsibility and consequences,  etc.   Sounds like that was what Eric's mom thought she was trying not to do.  But the end result was still "some seriously fucked up bullshit"

Dean and his dad - I want Iyanla to come Fix Their Lives...LOL.   Both unable to see past their own pain, to be able to relate to the other.  

[dleighg]

4 hours ago, Mocking Bird said:

Oh, my!  Not one word about Peter's mom's Kate Gosling reverse mullet hair cut??  Being far older than what I assume is the age demographic of fellow commenters is here, I was really put off by his mother's "He'll probably have kids with you, but isn't ready to get married" bit.  It's just sad that making babies with someone these days ranks second in what is now considered as a "commitment".

 

so this! I mean marriage *is* reversible. Kids are for life, as is your relationship with the kid's other parent.

[Shampognay]

3 hours ago, fib said:

She also probably feels acute pressure not to be the only bachelorette never to be proposed to, as the first black bachelorette.  IMHO, the humiliation of that, the way the racial aspect would be scrutinized, would be debilitating. 

If Rachel feels the strongest for Peter, and chooses him even if he is not ready to propose, I would have more respect for her than if she chooses someone who will propose just to get a proposal.  Race has nothing to do with it.

[seacliffsal]

I really kind of resented Rachel this episode when she went to see Dean.  While in Europe Dean clearly expressed his hesitancy about his home town date.  In this episode, he kept directly telling her that this would be terrible for him, and she kept telling him it would be fine which basically negated his feelings and indicated that she knew best.  She also kept pushing Dean about not talking to his father for two years, etc., etc.  She seemed to think that she could "fix" the relationship, which, again, to me indicated that she thought she knew so much better than Dean did what his family needed.  She also seemed to mock Dean's father's new name-finally getting it when she asked what she should call him and Dean responded with his dad's name for the third time.  It was interesting that she seemed to be thrown off a bit when Dean's father just decided to end his time with her and leave.   I felt like she treated Dean's issues with his father and the entire home visit as a joke.  Yes, I am also upset that the producers filmed Dean's family, but Rachel could have acknowledged Dean's feelings and supported him instead of implying (or, actually, stating directly) that she thought Dean should have been reaching out more to his father. 

[Catronia]

I think Rachel's whole thing is that she wants BABIES, and she wants them NOW. I don't remember the context, but someone asked her where she saw herself in 4 years, and she said with at least(!) two children. She seems to want children with a husband, not a boyfriend, so Peter's refusal to commit to an immediate proposal is a problem for her. I think this is not a great way to approach the situation -- I need a husband, any husband, as long as he wants children now. Love the man first, then have the kiddies, but hey, that's me, and I don't like kids.

I thought the Dean visit with his father was awful to watch, and that his father is an awful man, who has learned nothing from his "enlightenment." I am so sad for Dean.

Bryan's mother? A Lifetime movie waiting to happen.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, Mocking Bird said:

Dean's family visit was so depressingly uncomfortable to watch, but I won't condemn him for going, even with him knowing how horrible it was going to be.  I believe, like all emotionally damaged children, a tiny part held out hope that things would be made right, not matter how deep that feeling was buried.   His father is such a delusional, narcissistic asshole with a heaping helping of mental illness on the side.  It is/was in no way Dean's responsibility to repair their relationship.  Sure, his father no doubt grieved over his wife's death, but eleven years afterward, for him to refuse to acknowledge emotionally and physically abandoning a child and the tremendous pain he caused that child proves his so-called spiritual enlightenment is just so much egocentric claptrap. 

I really responded to this paragraph..... thanks for writing it.  

Also, I must say, I enjoy the fact that there is tension to the winner this season.  At least we don't know who the winner is and some of us are passionately arguing Bryan versus Peter.  It's a lot more interesting than Kaitlyn's season where she spoiled the winner herself and also made it pretty obvious.  I'm fine with K. so not inviting a pile on, but I like that there's 2 major front runners and some of us seem torn.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[mostlylurking]

30 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I really kind of resented Rachel this episode when she went to see Dean.  While in Europe Dean clearly expressed his hesitancy about his home town date.  In this episode, he kept directly telling her that this would be terrible for him, and she kept telling him it would be fine which basically negated his feelings and indicated that she knew best.  She also kept pushing Dean about not talking to his father for two years, etc., etc.  She seemed to think that she could "fix" the relationship, which, again, to me indicated that she thought she knew so much better than Dean did what his family needed.  She also seemed to mock Dean's father's new name-finally getting it when she asked what she should call him and Dean responded with his dad's name for the third time.  It was interesting that she seemed to be thrown off a bit when Dean's father just decided to end his time with her and leave.   I felt like she treated Dean's issues with his father and the entire home visit as a joke.  Yes, I am also upset that the producers filmed Dean's family, but Rachel could have acknowledged Dean's feelings and supported him instead of implying (or, actually, stating directly) that she thought Dean should have been reaching out more to his father. 

I agree with all of this.  Maybe not on purpose, but she was diminishing his feelings.  

[TheFinalRose]

Peter seems depressed to me about his old relationship. Maybe he thought going on this show would help him move on, but it didn't. However, how's he going to be The Bachelor then? You have to be prepared to propose just as quickly, and he seems very firm in his belief that it takes longer than the confines of this show to be able to say those words and genuinely mean them. That is all worthy on his part, but this show is not the place for him. 

And yes, this show is all about the proposal at the end. Don't go on the show if you honestly can't play the part. There may be pressure to propose, but no pressure to follow through on the marriage, as past track records show. 

10 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

In this episode, he kept directly telling her that this would be terrible for him, and she kept telling him it would be fine which basically negated his feelings and indicated that she knew best.  She also kept pushing Dean about not talking to his father for two years, etc., et

I hope Dean learned a lesson from this, to say no when he means it. He should have asked his siblings to get together somewhere, and leave the freak dad out of it. And how about this quote for sensitive parent of the year from the enlightened one: "How could I understand your frustration? I have no idea what it's like to lose your mom." Really, if that was as far as Dean's dad could go in trying to empathize with his kids no wonder the family fell apart. 

[fib]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

(Bryan) looks very similar to his mom. Anyway, Bryan has grown on me. He has a nice smile. 

When I saw him next to his mom, I could  see clearly where he got his penchant for cosmetic surgery :-). 

 

52 minutes ago, Shampognay said:

If Rachel feels the strongest for Peter, and chooses him even if he is not ready to propose, I would have more respect for her than if she chooses someone who will propose just to get a proposal.  Race has nothing to do with it.

I agree that I would respect her more if she chose someone who wasnt ready to propose.  But I do think she feels a lot of pressure to represent people who look like her, and if she chose some who wants kids but not a marriage, then I can already hear the horrible things racist commentators would be saying about Black Women's ability to get married and keep their man (despite the fact that this show's track record still sucks).  Being the first Bachelorette not to get a proposal? Eeps  

Like it or not, ad the first Black Bachelorette, There is race at play here.  

[amcfar]

Okay, so I'm not saying that I think it's the best decision for Rachel to pick the guy who's willing to propose after six weeks; however, I can see why she would choose to go that route. Rachel is now 32. Even if she were to get pregnant tomorrow, she'd be nearly 33 before the baby is born. Obviously, she probably wants to be engaged for six months to a year before getting married. So even if she were to get pregnant on her honeymoon, she'd be nearing 34 by the time the baby would be born. She obviously wants to have children, so her biological clock is ticking. I don't blame her for wanting to get married soon.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that Peter isn't ready for marriage. I also don't think that Dean is anywhere near ready either and kind of young for Rachel anyway, so I can see why she let him go. Eric seems like a nice guy and I think he could possibly be ready for marriage in several years. The only one who seems willing to get married soon is Bryan; but she'd have to put up with his domineering, overprotective mom. It's not going to be an easy feat, I'm afraid. 

[Wings]

@Venee, decorating is my passion, so I study the homes, too,  I have spotted a lot of wall are art over the years that are clearly fresh from Homegoods or IKEA. 

Aunt Verna's condo was staged to the max.  It looked to be too small for the size of the furniture.  The coffee table did not jibe with her taste and way too big.  I loved it though.  Lovely woman! 

Dean's dad agreed to some help from production, too.  His clothes were fresh out of the box.  I think they probably had furniture that was moved out.  Sure they had floor pillows they used but not this many.

 I had to laugh at the Buddha statue.  The camera guy zeroed in on it. 

 Sikhs do not worship any god.  I knew a  doctor who was a Sikh, we facilitated some work shops together.  He was normal, for lack of a better word.   His wife was, too.  And they had furniture from the Pottery Barn.  Lol  

I have only one thought, is Peter ready for sex in the FS?   Everything else has been covered.  :^). 

I think he got back with his ex.  

[vendredi3]

13 hours ago, catrice2 said:

When I was in high school I was torn between Prince and (someone I will not name for fear you will realize I am ancient) another singer

Was it George Michael? It's okay, I'm old too.

[dleighg]

I'm confused. That was Dean's dad's house, but his dad walked out and Rachel went outside to talk to him, and by then everyone else was gone, leaving Rachel and Dean inside *the dad's house* all alone. So the dad was just wandering outside? For how long?

[MaryAnneSpier]

Regarding Bryan's mother: when Rachel was talking to his sister about the previous relationship that went south, HUGE, UNAVOIDABLE red flags went up. Bryan's sister said that it went downhill because the girlfriend wanted him to herself. I read that as quite a rewritten account of what happened. I think it was more along the lines of "girlfriend wanted him to put her feelings, needs, wants, and future before his mother's but he's still attached to the apron strings". It's absolutely important to me that a man loves and respects his mother, but if you as his wife are always and forever going to take a backseat to what his momma says and thinks, that's not okay. My female cousin broke up with her serious boyfriend because of this very situation; he would only live in the city his parents did, expected my cousin to follow him according to where his parents were, and his mom was always right about everything. It made my cousin feel invalidated and that she'd always have to defer to her mother-in-law for every single aspect of their married life. As a married adult man, your priority is your wife and children. Additionally, it seems that to Bryan's mom, no woman will ever be good enough to take care of her baby. Who wants to marry into that? 

I figured Dean would stick around for drama on the show with hometown dates, but this was just too far and too low even for reality tv standards. Yes, as others have said, he signed up for the show, but I don't think Dean expected to make it so far in the show that his family's dirty laundry and deep issues would be aired for the nation to see. It felt so exploitative. And for Rachel to act as if she had any idea of the situation and told Dean how he should handle his own family was way out of line. 

It makes me wonder: for hometown dates, do the contestants all HAVE to introduce the Bachelor/Bachelorette to their parents? Can they just do close friends instead if they don't want their familial issues exposed on TV? 

[dleighg]

Look at those spiders!

[mostlylurking]

I thought Bryan said he was an only child so I was confused as to who the woman was - was it his sister??  It was also weird because the way his mom was talking it really seemed like Bryan was her only child.  Was she a step sister??  I was curious about this.

11 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

do the contestants all HAVE to introduce the Bachelor/Bachelorette to their parents? Can they just do close friends instead if they don't want their familial issues exposed on TV? 

No they do not and there have been contestants in the past who have gone the close friends route for whatever reason.  Even in Rachel's hometown when she was on Nick's season her dad was not part of it probably because he is a judge and doesn't want any part of this shit show.  

[comosedice]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I was hoping before the show even started that Rachel would be one the one to break the mold and just admit that it is more of a "getting to know you" than it is a "let's head to the alter."   Either way she is taking a risk.....Eric who has never had a real, adult, healthy relationship at 30, Dean who has never grieved his mother properly and has family issues, Bryan who may not be realistic/genuine and it would appear may have some mother issues, and Peter who seems to be too introverted, may be here for the wrong reasons and does not open up.  My question is why does Peter's issues bother people more than the other red flags about the rest of the guys?

Peter has been a huge favorite on social media, particularly Twitter.  Although he didn't force anyone to like him, there is an attempt to humble him.

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Bryan's sister said that it went downhill because the girlfriend wanted him to herself. I read that as quite a rewritten account of what happened. I think it was more along the lines of "girlfriend wanted him to put her feelings, needs, wants, and future before his mother's but he's still attached to the apron strings".

Serious question, without knowing the parties involved personally, why is Bryan's family's version being automatically dismissed as the truth? I can speak from personal experience that there ARE some women who when they get involved with a guy, they want him all to themselves including to the exclusion of their family. My brother married one of those and let's just say the marriage was a toxic mess that went to shit very quickly. And I can tell you right now my family is not the clingy type. Hell we barely say I Love You, it's just understood. But we're always there for each other and that was too much for her. Girlfriend got jealous once because my brother raved about my sister's cooking because she took it as a personal insult against her cooking. Like he was acting so amazed at having good food like she didn't cook as well. When all it was, was that my brother didn't realize my sister had become such a good cook over the years. She was insane. But I bet if people hear the story they'll assume we were the overbearing and clingy types. 

 

4 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I thought Bryan said he was an only child so I was confused as to who the woman was - was it his sister??  It was also weird because the way his mom was talking it really seemed like Bryan was her only child.  Was she a step sister??  I was curious about this.

I may be wrong but I got the impression that Bryan is his mother's only child and not an only child in general. So my guess is his mom is either his dad's second wife or the father had children with someone else before getting married to Bryan's mom and the woman speaking was probably his half-sister. Although I will say she seemed younger than Bryan but I definitely got the feeling he was only the mother's only child.

Edited July 18, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[fib]

33 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I read that as quite a rewritten account of what happened.

I got the same vibe.  Where is the ex when you need her?  Yoohoo!  US Weekly!   Shell out some dough for the scoop, already!

[scenicbyway]

I'm guessing the final two will be Eric and Bryan?  She seems to appreciate Eric's friendship and she's hot for Bryan.  The other two just looked the same to me.  I don't see it lasting with any of these guys.  Bryan's mom is way to over protective.  She's only going to approve of someone that she picks out and even then, she'll expect them to live with her.

I felt bad for Dean having all that aired on national tv, but that is what he techinically signed up for.  I can't see him being the next bachelor though.  Obviously his dad couldn't deal with his wife's death any more than the kids could.  What a mess.

[dleighg]

1 minute ago, scenicbyway said:

I felt bad for Dean having all that aired on national tv, but that is what he techinically signed up for.  I can't see him being the next bachelor though.  Obviously his dad couldn't deal with his wife's death any more than the kids could.  What a mess.

I thought it was awful that they spent so much time on that mess. 

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, vendredi3 said:

Was it George Michael? It's okay, I'm old too.

Worse than that, ha ha! 

[catrice2]

30 minutes ago, comosedice said:

Peter has been a huge favorite on social media, particularly Twitter.  Although he didn't force anyone to like him, there is an attempt to humble him.

So I understand.   From what I have heard a lot of viewers are only watching for Peter and Dean, similar to how in Nick's season a lot of people said they were watching out of habit or for whatever girl they had chosen as a favorite.  Funny how that happens....viewers start to like contestants more than the lead, although I am sure Rachel has plenty of fans.  Dean is young and attractive and a lot of young women watch this show....I can see the producers wanting to keep him around. 

I can just see the producer manipulation: 

Producer-How's it going? 

Rachel ( in her trailer)  I am a little confused, but I am trying to get married and have kids. I think I'm going to send Dean home.  

Producer- Hmmm sure you want to do that?  I mean, he is such a sensitive soul and the chemistry between  you is amazing. 

Rachel- Yeah, but I am not sure if he's ready and he's shared some things that, uh, make me think he needs some time to sort out some feelings ..and uh, deal with some family issues....

Producer- Really?? We didn't know, but you know we've seen it so many times, contestants have a "break through" on hometowns, especially once they around their families.  We spend a lot of time with the guys and he is so into you.

Rachel- Really?  (smiling) Weellll....it's just that going home may not be what makes him have a break through (thinking to herself, more of a breakdown) 

Producer - Yes, but Rachel you are such a great communicator!  We've seen such a change in Dean, especially when he is around you.  Maybe you are just what he needs with his family.  Won't it feel amazing to bring them back together for such an awesome reason? He'll be so proud to take  you home, could be what they need to break down their walls and you'll be a big part of that. 

Rachel-  You know, you could be right!  I could help Dean...and well, I haven't even had a one on one with Matt or Adam...and like, Adam Jr. will probably want to be with us our hometown date.... With all that being said I think I have my decision!  

[Kbilly]

MaryAnne Spier (love the name, BSC 4-EVA) ----To me, that whole convo with Bryan's sister to me was just as off-putting as the Stage 5 Clinger Mom--the sister basically defended the mom's actions by saying the girlfriend wanted Bryan to herself like she was the bad guy. It was really weird to me. Rachel is constantly asking "How are you still single?" and I think we know why, mom is holding on too tight and no one is good enough to take care of the love of her life like she can. I laughed when the dad said "Bryan, isn't your hair supposed to be longer?" Geeeeez.

I couldn't help but cry watching Dean and his dad because it's obvious that Dean is so very hurt and so angry. The death of his mother ripped his family apart and it was tragic to watch that. And it was so bizarre having these deep serious conversations while lounging on floor pillows! I was kind of into Dean's long-haired bro with the beard.

I loved Verna too and I thought it was actually very touching when Eric's friend told him he was proud of him. I don't see a love connection with Eric though.

[CalamityBoPeep]

1 hour ago, TheFinalRose said:

Peter seems depressed to me about his old relationship. Maybe he thought going on this show would help him move on, but it didn't. However, how's he going to be The Bachelor then? You have to be prepared to propose just as quickly, and he seems very firm in his belief that it takes longer than the confines of this show to be able to say those words and genuinely mean them. 

 

My theory on Peter is that he might have been prepared to go "all in" with Rachel, if it had been clear that he was her front-runner. Early on, I got the feeling he was connecting pretty well. (With their first date, and the conversations we saw, etc.) I feel like her obvious infatuation with Bryan was noticed by all the guys, and Peter doesn't seem like the type to be ready to put himself into an un-reciprocated position. I don't fault him for that. It would be hard to tell, in this situation, even with the Bachelorette crawling on you, that you were certainly number one. He'd only have his observations of her interactions with the other guys to go on. 

He seems a bit introspective, and more cautious than the average hamster on these shows, and he probably knows that the odds are really not good, even if he was clearly F1.  If he's not clearly the F1? It makes sense to me that he'd talk himself out of taking a dive that could end up in a belly flop. So, he probably first pulled back in a "wait and see" kind of attitude, to see if the Bryan thing would crash and burn. But as time went on, he'd notice that Bryan was still firmly in the top spot, so at that point Peter's goal could have shifted to "well, she might not pick me, but I could be the Bachelor" (with a producer encouraging that seed to take root, of course). 

 

Imaginary-Peter: "I'm thinking about leaving... she's clearly into Bryan..."

Imaginary-Producer: "But wait, wait... what if... you could be in the running to be the Bachelor??? Would you stay, then?"

 

As the Bachelor though, it'd be completely under his control. He'd see his F1, on night one, and do everything he could to keep up the pretense for the show's sake, but he'd probably know who he would pick in the end, and apply most of his actual effort toward getting to know that one specific woman, deeply, so that he could be sure by the end that he wanted to marry her. 

 

Of course, the show would probably cast his ex, just for the drama and feels. Maybe if he regrets losing her, still, we'd be watching him rekindle something, as a scarred, but wiser man.

 

And now, I've put that out to the Universe... you just watch these SOB's in charge of this show will make it so.

 

 

1 hour ago, amcfar said:

Okay, so I'm not saying that I think it's the best decision for Rachel to pick the guy who's willing to propose after six weeks; however, I can see why she would choose to go that route. Rachel is now 32. Even if she were to get pregnant tomorrow, she'd be nearly 33 before the baby is born. Obviously, she probably wants to be engaged for six months to a year before getting married. So even if she were to get pregnant on her honeymoon, she'd be nearing 34 by the time the baby would be born. She obviously wants to have children, so her biological clock is ticking. I don't blame her for wanting to get married soon.

 

Yeah, I'd tend to agree. She's hearing her biological clock booming. Still... pretty scary to think of pursuing that with Bryan's mother for Grandma. I don't think his mom is going to take kindly to the kids spending holidays getting to know their other grandparents' traditions. What a mess. Rachel is setting herself up for a ton of heartache if she puts her bio-clock's needs front and center here.

 

49 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Regarding Bryan's mother: when Rachel was talking to his sister about the previous relationship that went south, HUGE, UNAVOIDABLE red flags went up. Bryan's sister said that it went downhill because the girlfriend wanted him to herself. I read that as quite a rewritten account of what happened. I think it was more along the lines of "girlfriend wanted him to put her feelings, needs, wants, and future before his mother's but he's still attached to the apron strings". It's absolutely important to me that a man loves and respects his mother, but if you as his wife are always and forever going to take a backseat to what his momma says and thinks, that's not okay.

 

I agree with you here. I saw his mom, and my thought was "Well, now I know why the man is still single at 37." He's going to be single until either a) his mother gets more realistic about her expectations, or b) he finds more ability to say "no" to her. Doesn't look good.

[Canada]

54 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Worse than that, ha ha! 

Boy George?  The guy from Flock of Seagulls with the swoopy hair???  We need to know!

[Thorkim]

16 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

So sick of the running up to greet the guy and then jumping up and wrapping your legs around them.

Me too.  She did it with every damned one of them.  Maybe I was just in a bad mood because my bus got me home from work late.  I hate that when they do it, tho.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Thorkim
typo

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I really kind of resented Rachel this episode when she went to see Dean.  While in Europe Dean clearly expressed his hesitancy about his home town date.  In this episode, he kept directly telling her that this would be terrible for him, and she kept telling him it would be fine which basically negated his feelings and indicated that she knew best.  She also kept pushing Dean about not talking to his father for two years, etc., etc.  She seemed to think that she could "fix" the relationship, which, again, to me indicated that she thought she knew so much better than Dean did what his family needed.  She also seemed to mock Dean's father's new name-finally getting it when she asked what she should call him and Dean responded with his dad's name for the third time.  It was interesting that she seemed to be thrown off a bit when Dean's father just decided to end his time with her and leave.   I felt like she treated Dean's issues with his father and the entire home visit as a joke.  Yes, I am also upset that the producers filmed Dean's family, but Rachel could have acknowledged Dean's feelings and supported him instead of implying (or, actually, stating directly) that she thought Dean should have been reaching out more to his father. 

Dean's family visit was incredibly uncomfortable to watch even before they actually got there. He was practically frozen with fear over  the prospect of having to see them and I think he only agreed to it thinking it was sort of required in order to get to the next step. 

As for her time with his dad, I'm wondering if she chose to go speak with him even after things went so badly with his conversation with  Dean or if that was a producer prod. Because I can't imagine a more inappropriate time for a complete stranger to approach a man just recently reunited with his estranged son who shared the extremely strong, negative feelings he still carries. He clearly could not give two shits about the show and the "journey" and couldn't pretend to see this as anything real. 

Quote

Peter's Mom was the parent this season to, very politely, call bullshit on the whole format.  

I thought all of the parents did, in one form or another, except for Eric's. Bryan's mom was clearly skeptical of the fact that Bryan has been with many, many, many women (she was very keen to point that out repeatedly, lol) and yet managed to find "the one" on a TV show where there is literally only one woman. Fair point, really. As I said above, Dean's dad was not feeling the magic of Rachel and Dean's relationship either.

Quote

Oh Dean.  The too-tight suit.  You're a cutie though, see you on BIP.

Dean was really a fashion disaster all the way through. It especially stands out when his segments come after the impeccably dressed model Peter and Eric, who is also usually really well dressed

Quote

. Didn't know if he wanted the same things/ready for same things as she does. He was relatively stoic as he was driven off to BIP.

Stoic seems to be Dean's default setting for dealing with bad things. He gets a completely flat monotone, almost lockjaw affect to his voice when he talks about his family stuff. It stands out compared to the way he's usually joking and laughing. 

I don't think he expected to be the F1 but I do think he expected to stay after this date, especially since he went through the very big step of reuniting with his dad and bringing Rachel there. She really should have cut him loose before this, it definitely leaves the impression that his family was the deal breaker and that's something he might carry with him into his next, real world relationship. Even with all the fakery of the show, stuff like this can still play with people's minds. 

Quote

 

But that's not what she said.  She said she didn't want a woman coming in who would "take him away from his family" (or words to that effect).  And from the context it seems pretty apparent to me that Mommy Dearest's idea of "take him away from his family" was what most normal people who think of as "starting a life together as husband and wife".  

That was way beyond the typical "our family is really close" and "it's important that X's new spouse fit in with the family".

Quote

I'm betting that was after the copious amounts of wine they keep bringing out, and no food. He's her only son, of course she wants him to be near the family. I'm moving to be closer to mine. Call me mommie dearest!?

 

Quote

Bryan's mom mentioned not taking him away from the family because that happens in some marriages. The man and the woman will get married, the mil and wife won't get along and then after they have kids they stop talking to the mil.

The thing is, the new spouse fitting in with the family is a 2-way street. You can't act all possessive of your son and treat the D-I-L like an unwelcome intrusion who is stealing your child and then expect her to "fit in." Which is what appears to be Bryan's mom's M.O. 

Bryan has already stated flat out that his mom's behavior played a role in his last break up, so it was definitely not an isolated "too much wine, not enough food" thoughtless remark the night that Rachel was there. 

It's going to suck for Bryan if his mom continues to succeed in running off any potential wives, but if I were Rachel, I'd run for the hills with that lady in the mix, because it doesn't seem like Bryan is able to stand up to her enough to make his own life. 

15 hours ago, twoods said:

I must have missed that part of the conversation. I just saw appropriate concern for him falling in love so quickly, but if she said what I missed, then I am wondering if Rachel had any warning signals going off in her head. At least the rest of his family seemed nice. 

She said that if her son was happy, she'd be happy. If not, she'd kill [the girlfriend].

Quote

 

They were at Eric's Aunt Verna's place and from what I gather from twitter, it was her real home as she said it wasn't staged.   

Verna was the real star of the night for me as I found her a breath of fresh air for this show.  And she seems to be enjoying her new found fame on social media.

 

She was lovely and she and Rachel really seemed to hit it off. Of all of the families, Eric's place seemed like the most fun (the odd revisionist history of his parents notwithstanding). But I guess given the other households, being the best of that bunch is kind of low-hanging fruit. 

ETA:

Quote

 

   1 HOUR AGO,  MARYANNESPIER SAID: 

Regarding Bryan's mother: when Rachel was talking to his sister about the previous relationship that went south, HUGE, UNAVOIDABLE red flags went up. Bryan's sister said that it went downhill because the girlfriend wanted him to herself. I read that as quite a rewritten account of what happened. I think it was more along the lines of "girlfriend wanted him to put her feelings, needs, wants, and future before his mother's but he's still attached to the apron strings". It's absolutely important to me that a man loves and respects his mother, but if you as his wife are always and forever going to take a backseat to what his momma says and thinks, that's not okay.

 

YES. I was trying to phrase some variation of this sentiment, but couldn't quite word it right. The sister was almost as troubling as the mother, she seems like Mom's little foot soldier who will freeze out the new girl if Mom doesn't like her. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by ljenkins782

[Wings]

.

Edited July 18, 2017 by wings707

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

Worse than that, ha ha! 

Sidney Poitier?  That was my crush.   

[Ohwell]

6 hours ago, Canada said:

Eric seems like a nice guy, but it's painful for me to listen to him speak.  It's not the accent or dialect that bugs me, it's the endless rambling.  He's one of those people who thinks that using more words makes him sound deep and intelligent.  It doesn't.  It just comes across as rambling and makes it hard to have a conversation, as he's not really listening.

I swear, I'm not going to say anything about Eric's grammar but you're right about the rambling.  It's as if he's within his own head so much that he forgets that he's even talking to someone.

[comosedice]

58 minutes ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

My theory on Peter is that he might have been prepared to go "all in" with Rachel, if it had been clear that he was her front-runner. Early on, I got the feeling he was connecting pretty well. (With their first date, and the conversations we saw, etc.) I feel like her obvious infatuation with Bryan was noticed by all the guys, and Peter doesn't seem like the type to be ready to put himself into an un-reciprocated position. I don't fault him for that. It would be hard to tell, in this situation, even with the Bachelorette crawling on you, that you were certainly number one. He'd only have his observations of her interactions with the other guys to go on. 

He seems a bit introspective, and more cautious than the average hamster on these shows, and he probably knows that the odds are really not good, even if he was clearly F1.  If he's not clearly the F1? It makes sense to me that he'd talk himself out of taking a dive that could end up in a belly flop. So, he probably first pulled back in a "wait and see" kind of attitude, to see if the Bryan thing would crash and burn. But as time went on, he'd notice that Bryan was still firmly in the top spot, so at that point Peter's goal could have shifted to "well, she might not pick me, but I could be the Bachelor" (with a producer encouraging that seed to take root, of course). 

Yup. I think Peter has been observing how she is with Bryan for some time now. He's commented on Bryan a couple times because it is clear in his eyes that he is treated differently from the other men and he doesn't think highly of him. I also think Peter's doubts about Rachel's feelings toward him started to grow after that hot tub/bathtub session when she did not think him worthy of the group rose. When Rachel is impressed with a man she rewards him. I expect Peter to keep protecting his heart if Rachel continues to send him mixed signals. It's very likely he will be sent home next week and then the finale will be the most predictable in history.