S13.E08: Week 8: Hometown Dates

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Peter's playing this just right to become the next Bachelor: being charming and witty and appealing enough to make the F3 whilst sending enough "I don't know if I want to get married" signals to Rachel to scare her off. I still say Bryan's the pick, Peter's the next Bachelor, and all three finalists get a Fantasy Suite roll in the hay.

If I'm wrong and Peter's the pick, then I don't know who the next Bachelor will be: No way TPTB pick Eric, and Bryan comes off like Juan Pablo 2.0. Luke and Chase from JoJo's season supposedly already turned the producers down a year ago (Nick Viall was their fallback option), so maybe....Arie?

[Venee]

So much to dish so little time...

The house that  Eric's family was at, looked like it was staged by the ABC producers. (I love interior decorating, so I have this bad habit of looking at the background during TV shows and movies). It had all the marks of recent makeover. The type of candles lit, the furniture arrangement, It just looked more like a model home.....

-Eric needs to bake a little longer before he's ready for Rachel's desire to not only to get a proposal, but be married and have kids... I don't see it.

-Bryan, Bryan... I just don't know... His Mom was right about one thing, you are marrying the family in a sense. The red flags should be up, I didn't hear Bryan step to his Mom at all. For thier relationship to have any legs, he'd have to put his Mom in her place when it came to Rachel. I have seen this first hand.  Rachel and Bryan would never make it down the aisle. She would be all up in their relationship from day 1!

- Peter - If Rachel was really looking for solid husband material, of this group, it's this guy. If you think about marriage, and specifically kids, as she keeps going on about, the things you need to move that forward reside in his background. His honesty doesn't bother me. I've been married for 20 years. He's the only one being real about this. Hot and heavy is great, and there is a place for that, but it does not make a lasting marriage. If she really is considering chancing the biggest decision of her life, she had better start asking the same questions he is. 

-My heart broke for Dean, and I felt his "I love you" to Rachel was a last gasp of air to remain in the hunt when his Father (who for me seemed to have more going on than just grief, I sensed some possible undiagnosed mental illness)sucked all of the air out of the room and some.  When did Rachel tell him she loved him to? Did I miss that?

Edited July 18, 2017 by Venee

[NeverLate]

Bryans mum is a lot like my MIL, and she didnt scare me off LOL. ( he's so skinny, arent you feeding him) nope he can make his own sandwich mum!

So, I dont think she would scare Rachel off

Peter seems so distant, and kind of dull at times. If he isn't her choice as he F!, and he is the bachelor, More oomph please Peter..

Dean broke my heart, but something needed to happen, he's angry and upset. However tonight he put out a kind message about his father, so Im so hoping something happened to mend fences

I love Eric, he makes me SMILE, and he makes her laugh, but I see them as brother and sister- It was an emotional night, I hope they all find their happy :)

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Luke and Chase from JoJo's season supposedly already turned the producers down a year ago

Luke and Chase did not turn the show down, the producers changed their minds and went with Nick. And Luke whinged enough about it and never let anyone forget how he was packed and on his way to the airport to head to LA for the announcement, when he got the call.

And I will just reiterate that my issue with Peter is not about the hesitation to propose but that I just don't believe he is really into Rachel and never have. So how is that supposed to work? 

Edited July 18, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Just now, truthaboutluv said:

Luke and Chase did not turn the show does, the producers changed their minds and went with Nick. And Luke whinged enough about it and never let anyone forget how he was packed and on his way to the airport to head to LA for the announcement, when he got the call.

I stand corrected. I thought I read somewhere that Luke and Chase had both turned the show down. Later, of course, the show's media people said they'd picked Nick over Luke and Chase, but I assumed that was the usual TV spin. So maybe one of them IS the next Bachelor if Rachel picks Peter. The only guy from JoJo's season we can definitively rule out IMHO is Chad: no way anyone says 'Fuck you, Chris Harrison!" without being frozen out of the franchise forever.

[backformore]

40 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Desperate or not, I am not going to fault Rachel for not picking a guy who can't seem to even seem like he wants to be with her much less engaged. I don't care how pretty some think he is.

But - the show is about marriage.  If I love guy A, and want to marry him, but he's not ready, how do I choose guy B just because he's ready to get  married?  Pick based on who you love, not based on who loves you the most. 

In real life, it's OK for one person to be ready to get married before the other person is.   You date a little longer, and see if things work out.   I'm with Peter in not being ready to propose to a girl who very recently was making out with other guys.  A real relationship generally means you're exclusively dating each other for some time before you get engaged. 

[Padma]

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

IfI think Dean's dad agreed to go on the show because he thought it would help sell himself, I wonder if Dean brought that up.  There was an entire choreographed performance there with him explaining the gong and the sprouted mungbeans.  He seemed totally fine as long as he could be the center of attention lecturing everyone and have everything revolve around himself.  He seems toxic and Dean staying away from him is probably a good decision.  Hopefully Dean at least has a good relationship with his sister. 

 

I thought Dean's dad was putting on an act, too. And seemed toxic, hiding behind a fake spirituality. The way the sister cried and talked about all that Dean had gone through made me wonder what the other issues were. The emotional abandonment at fifteen would be so hard, and it seems the grief hit the whole family very hard--in addition to the struggle of seeing your mother die from cancer (I thought her comment to Dean's question, "When are you coming home?" "Never" was harsh, even from someone probably scared, maybe bitter, to be dying young.

But I got a vibe from dad that it was more than not "being there". The way the sister cried for him made me think there might have been some physical abuse issues, acting out anger, or drugs, alcohol...something beyond "dad just works and never talks to us." Plus, for a man seeking spirituality, honesty and inner peace, he didn't want to take any responsibility at all for the way he had been as a parent, or even say, "I'm sorry for (fill in the words showing he understood and cared about Dean's feelings)." Depending on the issues, Dean might have given him more then.

Oh well, he's adorable and seems nice. You don't need to marry someone's family when you marry them--in fact, it's not that bad to know in advance there's estrangement and deal with it.  I hope he'll meet someone adorable and sweet in Paradise.  He was too young and from too dysfunctional a background for Rachel, but he'll be a catch for someone else.

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, backformore said:

49 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

But - the show is about marriage.  If I love guy A, and want to marry him, but he's not ready, how do I choose guy B just because he's ready to get  married?  Pick based on who you love, not based on who loves you the most. 

Well and that is assuming that isn't exactly what she did. We don't know that Rachel didn't pick the guy she was in love with and that hell that guy may very well be a Peter. I was again responding to some of the criticisms about her being so obsessed with being engaged because she is in my opinion, rightly bothered by Peter's non-commitance. I mean everyone keeps saying how in real life people wouldn't get engaged that way and Peter's being realistic, etc. but in real life would it make sense to keep chasing a guy who has these emotional walls up and may not even really be that into you?

[Padma]

Has the show always been so marriage-focused? That makes it seem so silly and unnecessarily pressured to me. To "fall in love" in the circumstances seems plenty ambitious enough--and then try a relationship in the real world to see what happens. The idea that all this weird dating should...must!...end in a proposal when you aren't in love yet (per Rachel's comments) is very hard to relate to, unless its just acting and they're all willing to go along with it. .

I don't think she should have told Dean "I'm falling in love with you, too" and then sent him home. That's messed up, esp. for such a sensitive guy.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Padma

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

13 minutes ago, backformore said:

But - the show is about marriage.  If I love guy A, and want to marry him, but he's not ready, how do I choose guy B just because he's ready to get  married?  Pick based on who you love, not based on who loves you the most. 

In real life, it's OK for one person to be ready to get married before the other person is.   You date a little longer, and see if things work out.   I'm with Peter in not being ready to propose to a girl who very recently was making out with other guys.  A real relationship generally means you're exclusively dating each other for some time before you get engaged. 

Rachel may be getting into Panic Mode here: She's 31 years old and if she wants to settle down and have a family, realistically only has about a decade left to bear children (after 40, the risk of miscarriages and birth defects skyrocket, and the pregnancy becomes even harder physically). She either has had unsuccessful relationships or may not have had time to pursue relationships the way she'd like with her busy attorney schedule (I have a friend who's an attorney and while she's quite successful professionally, her personal life is a trainwreck: her one and only marriage was over within weeks).

Or maybe everything's fine, Rachel's already picked Bryan, and the producers are just having their fun with us.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[twoods]

Eh, I didn't think that Bryan's mom was that crazy. She is worried about her son falling in love on a show in a short amount of time. I get it. It's obvious they are both very into eachother, more so than the other guys. 

 

I wonder how previous  bachelors and Bachelorettes dealt with their eventual picks knowing they had sex with other people in the fantasy suite. This part of the show always makes me uneasy.

 

I really liked Peter's friends. 

Poor Dean- dealing with his family drama on TV. My heart broke for him. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by twoods

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

2 minutes ago, twoods said:

I wonder how previous  bachelors and Bachelorettes dealt with their eventual picks knowing they had sex with other people in the fantasy suite. This part of the show always makes me uneasy.

I only started watching during Chris Soules' season (my fiancee dragged me into this stupid show and I now I can't stop watching), but I understand the Fantasy Suite was handled at least somewhat discreetly before two big things blew it open: Nick's "Why did you sleep with me if you were gonna pick someone else?" whining during Andi's finale, and Kaitlyn being very upfront to the media about the fact that she'd slept with all three guys in her Final 3 and had used their performance as part of her final decision. Now the show doesn't even pretend to hide what happens.

[NeverLate]

6 minutes ago, twoods said:

Eh, I didn't think that Bryan's mom was that crazy. She is worried about her son falling in love on a show in a short amount of time. I get it. It's obvious they are both very into eachother, more so than the other guys. 

 

I wonder how previous  bachelors and Bachelorettes dealt with their eventual picks knowing they had sex with other people in the fantasy suite. This part of the show always makes me uneasy.

When are the FS dates? Next week .when they meet the parents? 

[Alapaki]

1 minute ago, twoods said:

Eh, I didn't think that Bryan's mom was that crazy. She is worried about her son falling in love on a show in a short amount of time. I get it. It's obvious they are both very into eachother, more so than the other guys. 

But that's not what she said.  She said she didn't want a woman coming in who would "take him away from his family" (or words to that effect).  And from the context it seems pretty apparent to me that Mommy Dearest's idea of "take him away from his family" was what most normal people who think of as "starting a life together as husband and wife".  

That was way beyond the typical "our family is really close" and "it's important that X's new spouse fit in with the family".  

That was borderline Norman Bates level shit.

9 minutes ago, Padma said:

But I got a vibe from dad that it was more than not "being there". The way the sister cried for him made me think there might have been some physical abuse issues, acting out anger, or drugs, alcohol...something beyond "dad just works and never talks to us." Plus, for a man seeking spirituality, honesty and inner peace, he didn't want to take any responsibility at all for the way he had been as a parent, or even say, "I'm sorry for (fill in the words showing he understood and cared about Dean's feelings)." Depending on the issues, Dean might have given him more then.

There was a point where I found myself feeling that Dean was not acknowledging the loss that his Father suffered when his Mother died.  But, ultimately, the Father was the adult and Dean was the 15 year old (who was obviously very close to his Mother).  His Father should be capable by now, what with his supposed "evolution" to be able to recognize his failings and apologize for them.  Rather than hiding behind them.

How hard is it to say "I didn't know how to be any better, and I'm sorry because I know that hurt you", instead of his "I didn't know any better, so step off!"?

[NeverLate]

8 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Rachel may be getting into Panic Mode here: She's 31 years old and if she wants to settle down and have a family, realistically only has about a decade left to bear children (after 40, the risk of miscarriages and birth defects skyrocket, and the pregnancy becomes even harder physically). She either has had unsuccessful relationships or may not have had time to pursue relationships the way she'd like with her busy attorney schedule (I have a friend who's an attorney and while she's quite successful professionally, her personal life is a trainwreck: her one and only marriage was over within weeks).

Or maybe everything's fine, Rachel's already picked Bryan, and the producers are just having their fun with us.

I think she's eager to get married, and she would love a large family. I can see where she is coming from.

[dirtypop90]

I knew I recognized Eric's aunt!!! http://vernamyers.com/

She was classmates with former president Obama at Harvard Law. Best part of this episode IMO . Even better in person. Tried to link her TED talk but not sure it worked.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by dirtypop90

[NeverLate]

Quote

 

But that's not what she said.  She said she didn't want a woman coming in who would "take him away from his family" (or words to that effect).  And from the context it seems pretty apparent to me that Mommy Dearest's idea of "take him away from his family" was what most normal people who think of as "starting a life together as husband and wife".  

That was way beyond the typical "our family is really close" and "it's important that X's new spouse fit in with the family".  

That was borderline Norman Bates level shit.

 

I'm betting that was after the copious amounts of wine they keep bringing out, and no food. He's her only son, of course she wants him to be near the family. I'm moving to be closer to mine. Call me mommie dearest!?

3 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Yes, Dean's dad is...not like most of us, but I like him!   He has found his soul's passion.   Of course I am behind and watching on my DVR. 

I thought it was me! In the end I liked Dean's father. He was angry when his wife died, Dean was angry when his mother died, and they never dealt with it

Dean, time to move on, your father has found his passion after his sorrow.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

8 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

But that's not what she said.  She said she didn't want a woman coming in who would "take him away from his family" (or words to that effect).  And from the context it seems pretty apparent to me that Mommy Dearest's idea of "take him away from his family" was what most normal people who think of as "starting a life together as husband and wife".  

That was way beyond the typical "our family is really close" and "it's important that X's new spouse fit in with the family".  

That was borderline Norman Bates level shit.

TVTropes.org (one of the best time wasters on the Interwebs) has a wonderful name for that kind of behavior: My Beloved Smother.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

I still like Peter and he posted about tonight's ep. Apparently contestants' instagrams are being flooded.

Dean's hometown date was so awkward and uncomfortable to watch. Smug Bryan's mother is scary. She is way too attached to her son and would constantly feel threatened by any woman important to him. 

Well, I forgot the show was on so I will have to go back and watch.  Sounds as if some dates went well, others not so much. I am actually nervous to watch the Dean date.    With regards to the whole proposal, motive thing...

If I recall correctly I was told there was a scene where one of Rachel's friends warned her about somebody not being there for "the right reasons" and she pretty much shut them down and said something about people having different reasons for coming on the show and she as fine with that .  Rachel herself has said she was skeptical about  the show and did not think it was real when she was on Nick's season, so clearly she did not come on there expecting to be willing to accept a proposal and take her first white man home, and she had stated it took her some time to get there.  She even had the theory that she left it too late and that is why it did not happen for her.  Nick made it clear also that he wanted the big love/proposal thing because it was his umpteenth time on the show, but that didn't make Rachel declare her undying love any sooner.   

With "all that being said," several people come on this show for different reasons, and none of them to do with love.  I  also think some come on for one reason and end up getting caught up in the process and their motives change.   There are plenty of times you THINK you are ready for something ( or not ready) but when it presents itself you realize that its not something you were ready for, or that you can do it after all.  As much as I hate to admit it, these people are human and this is supposed to be a show about real humans and real emotions. It is easy for us as viewers to assume they all have a master plan (and some do) but it is also easy for me to believe that when it comes right down to it no matter what I thought I was prepared to do when I signed those papers ( including being too intimate on camera) I would have a problem with opening up just to be rejected on national television, even if I knew there was a possibility of that happening.  

I am not sure why viewers  judge the contestants for something that the lead seems not to be worried about?   It seems slightly hypocritical to me for Rachel to keep harping on it when she knows she did not admit anything to Nick reportedly until Fantasy Suites.  If Rachel is o.k. with people coming on for other reasons ( as she herself admitted she did) then it doesn't bother me.  She was also the one that kept saying on Nick's seasons she had never watched the show before she went on...so why would she go on a show that she didn't know anything about and keep whining about that?  I'm told she also threatened to go home in Nick's season.  If anything Peter is Rachel and maybe that is why she is keeping him around, or maybe she is playing the game the way that Nick did.  He knew Vanessa was his pick and kept Rachel around so they could make her Bachelorette.  Maybe she is doing the same with Peter.  She certainly has gone along with producers before. 

For me even if I were the lead and I knew what the premise of the show is I would be super hesitant about someone declaring that they are in love with me too soon, for instance someone who had never even had a one on one date.   My point is knowing what the show is and what you do can sometimes be two different things. 

When I was in high school I was torn between Prince and (someone I will not name for fear you will realize I am ancient) another singer and  we wrote all kinds of stuff in our yearbooks, especially about things that were popular at that time.  I wanted to be  dancer on a show so that I could meet all the popular singers and the boys thought it was cool. I am sure the Bachelor was popular with the girls when Peter was in high school and that was something to say and it probably seemed really glamorous at that time.  If that had been his goal with his looks he probably could have been on the show before now if he were really pursuing it.  I was one who chastised Bryan for the Player, but realized that was silly as he was in his early 20's.  If we are not going to hold that against him when he was an adult, I am not going to hold some yearbook reference  from a 17 year old as evidence that Peter is playing a game...whether he is or not.  Rachel and viewers know that all of the guys go on this show knowing they have a shot at being the Bachelor (just as she knew she had a chance to be Bachelorette when she was "heartbroken" over Nick), it is just part of the deal right now, as is going on to build your brand so you can make money on Instagram, etc.  I just can't tell how we are supposed to know who is genuine and who is not when we do not know this people outside of edited footage?   I personally felt that Tickle Monster may have been really genuine. 

I actually have more respect with the people who don't just totally follow "the script," regardless of what their reason is.  If he is sincere then kudos to him for being willing to honor how he is feeling instead of saying something he doesn't mean.   Too bad he can't just ignore the hate.  Rachel has the power to send him home at any time and it is not as if he is telling her one thing and the cameras something else.  It is terrible that people have the time to go on social media and get so invested in people they don't know and whose decisions won't affect their lives.  It is one thing to snark and make fun of the show, but it is another to harass people on social media for something that happened months ago and is already a done deal. 

Sometimes I think Peter gets hate from other men because of his looks, and from some women whom he reminds of some good looking guy that wasn't into them.  I don't think he was any less into Rachel than Dean, who always looked nervous around her and unsure of what to do with her physically.  In the episodes I saw, she had more physical contact with Peter than Dean or Eric and I don't remember Josiah or others being overly physical with her and I just don't see her chasing anybody.    Everyone keeps saying that Rachel is so smart.  If so, then she should be smart enough to tell if a man is physically attracted to her, and if he is not and she keeps him, then that is on her.  Maybe he is more demonstrative in parts we were not shown, or maybe he is just reserved or realized he doesn't like making out with someone who makes out with multiple people.   Part of loving someone is accepting who and how they are, just as if she chooses Eric she will have to accept his inexperience in relationships.  If constant and open PDA is not his thing and it is hers, then he is not for her, but that doesn't make him a bad person, nor does it necessarily mean he is not into her, just that he shows it in other ways.  

In the end, she is going to choose who feels right for her and the viewers will move on to the next batch of crazies in the next season.  I am not defending Peter, but using him as an example since he is getting so much hate for not saying I love you.  It would seem to me that if he is creating a narrative it would be in his interest to say it so that he can come off as more "heartbroken."  I do not think that any of the men are a great fit for Rachel.   I think she had a bad bunch and she will make the best choice from that. 

Just wanted to add.....the previews last week of hometowns is probably a misdirect.  I'll bet money that the sister is talking about someone other than Bryan not being genuine...probably Peter.   They are playing games again.   

Edited July 18, 2017 by catrice2
Correcting some talk to text

[twoods]

16 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

But that's not what she said.  She said she didn't want a woman coming in who would "take him away from his family" (or words to that effect).  And from the context it seems pretty apparent to me that Mommy Dearest's idea of "take him away from his family" was what most normal people who think of as "starting a life together as husband and wife".  

That was way beyond the typical "our family is really close" and "it's important that X's new spouse fit in with the family".  

That was borderline Norman Bates level shit.

I must have missed that part of the conversation. I just saw appropriate concern for him falling in love so quickly, but if she said what I missed, then I am wondering if Rachel had any warning signals going off in her head. At least the rest of his family seemed nice. 

All of the hysteria on twitter of the producers exploiting Dean's family for ratings is cracking me up. When has this show not exploited people and their drama? Maybe they've been watching a different show than we have the past decade or so.

[Armchair Critic]

4 minutes ago, twoods said:

All of the hysteria on twitter of the producers exploiting Dean's family for ratings is cracking me up. When has this show not exploited people and their drama? Maybe they've been watching a different show than we have the past decade or so.

I felt a little bad for Dean but this show has been on long enough that people know what they are signing up for and that there are hometown dates. If it is that big of an issue maybe go on another show or don't go on tv at all. Same for Peter as much as I like him, you know that you will be expected to propose.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Armchair Critic

[twoods]

He probably didn't think he was going to get this far- like others Peter may have wanted some reality exposure since he's a model. Or maybe he's freaked out because he never thought about proposing after 2 months, which is realistic.

I feel so sad reading his post to the viewers. Is he seriously getting death threats and crap over not saying he loved Rachel? What is wrong with people?

[AudreyHorne]

I am all in on Eric.  I don't think he's going to win and he might not be right for her, but I find him to be a delight and a breath of fresh air and a tall drink of water and everything else!  I found his family (past issues notwithstanding) to be one of the most normal groups we've seen on this show which is a good sign of his "good-personess" in my mind.

 

Team Eric!

[Mooncake76]

I think I fell a little in love with Dean tonight. Or maybe it's just my penchant for broken things, but his emotions while lying on those pillows with Rachel felt the most raw and genuine out of any guy from this whole season. I do think he meant what he said ("I think I'm falling in love with you") in that moment because he was at his most vulnerable and Rachel was the person who was there for him. Although I do think those feelings of love is likely transferred from a more general sense of feeling grateful that someone was there, especially after he was essentially abandoned/rejected all over again when his father walked away from him and was unwilling to mend the relationship. But to him, I believe it probably felt like love. Which makes me really sad for him. 

I also think Rachel's final pick is Bryan. She clearly likes Peter, but that goodbye was pretty cold, void of any affection even for someone who has his walls up. To me, that wasn't a walls sitiatuon, it's a he's-just-not-that-into-you situation. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Mooncake76
Extra words

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, backformore said:

But - the show is about marriage.  If I love guy A, and want to marry him, but he's not ready, how do I choose guy B just because he's ready to get  married?  Pick based on who you love, not based on who loves you the most.

People can fall deeply in love after two months that they'll sacrifice what they want to keep exploring things on their loved one's timeline.

But that probably doesn't happen on these shows.  The final couple are likely in the throes of infatuation that they either ride to love or a breakup.

As the lead, she's supposed to be in control of her destiny.  She has made it clear that she wants to be engaged at the end of this process.  I don't see Rachel, especially as the first black bachelorette, choosing to leave this season ringless if there was an acceptable alternative.  This show isn't about marriage, it's about the fantasy and illusion of marriage.  Regardless of who she chooses, she's going to be in "getting to know you" stages with them instead of "wedding planning" stages.  Her choice will have a ring in some scenarios and is unlikely to have one in Peter's scenario.

I think Rachel chose Peter in the beginning.  And Bryan chose her.  From what we've seen of her, I think she's the type who responds to being pursued. Had Peter thrown down as hard as Bryan, I'd think he'd be the front runner. 

I've always preferred Peter to Bryan.  I like Peter.  I am Peter in many ways--very reserved and no matter what contract I signed, I'd have a hard time faking I was further along than I was.  But I totally get Rachel's POV.  There's another guy who she's attracted to and who is attracted to her.  They have fun together.  And he's going to let her end the season the way she thinks it should end.  I'd probably choose him too. (Not Bryan, though, because Bryan wouldn't be "that" guy for me.)

Edited July 18, 2017 by Irlandesa

[HeyThere83]

Man this is frustrating. It still seems to me that Peter is the one she REALLY wants for a serious relationship. But then Bryan's right there with the whole prince charming act. He's always "on."

[waving feather]

Many people felt sorry for Des or called her desperate to be engaged (I believe the term used was "settling") when she accepted Chris' proposal. Now she is happily married with a kid to him. So I always believe it's not the circumstances that brought the couple together but how they make it work in the real world. But no point chasing after someone who is lukewarm towards you hoping they will love you back one day, especially on this show. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by waving feather

[JenE4]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

I have no idea how Peter really feels about Rachel.  Does his family keep mentioning some vague REASON why he's ready for children but not marriage, but Peter's not ready to reveal it yet?  And I guess we don't know what that is?

Yes, that was strange. Mama Peter was saying, oh, he'll have children with you--just don't expect an engagement. Huh?? 

6 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I still like Peter and he posted about tonight's ep. Apparently contestants' instagrams are being 

Peter was on a roll making a good point about why he's not going to rush to express love until it grows in time, UNTIL he ended it with "much love"...to complete strangers. So, you can't tell Rachel you love her, but you can tell us that? SMH

Edited July 18, 2017 by JenE4

[phlebas]

I'm sorry, but being married is a stupid goal. You're not Henry VIII desperate for a legitimate heir, FFS. The idea is finding someone to spend your life with and to love and be loved by until the end of your days.

If you're going to step away from a person who might offer you that so you can step towards a person who will give you instant gratification, then the one who's not ready to be married is you. 

[DEL901]

Oh, my.  That was some set of hometown dates:

Peter - I don't think I'd want to date someone who had to get approval from his friends and family. "They like you so I guess we're good to go to the next stage"  Also, his mother's statement that he's ready for a family but not necessarily to get married.

Bryan - Yup, one scary potential MIL.  Love of her life?  Scary.

Dean - "Well, is it my responsibility to call him?"  Yes, there was a horrible tragedy when his mother died, but he still can't see how hard it hit his dad who crumbled.  Yes, dad should have stepped up to the plate but he didn't/couldn't as he dealt with his own devastation.  It doesn't excuse him, but it has been 11 years.  Time for Dean to forgive and move on.

Eric - Who would have thought he'd be the most mature.  "Yeah, I had a bad childhood but I decided to learn from it and be a very positive person and also forgive my family"

At this point, Bryan really is her only F1 possibility.

[In2You]

Bryan's mom mentioned not taking him away from the family because that happens in some marriages. The man and the woman will get married, the mil and wife won't get along and then after they have kids they stop talking to the mil. 

[Venee]

Just now, waving feather said:

Many people felt sorry for Des or called her desperate to be engaged (I believe the term used was "settling") when she accepted Chris' proposal. Now she is happily married with a kid to him. So I always believe it's not the circumstances that brought the couple together but how they make it work in the real world. But no point chasing after someone who is lukewarm towards you hoping they will love you back one day, especially on this show. 

Besides not swallowing her face every second how is the way Peter and Rachel relate to one another (that we have seen) Luke warm? I've been married 20 years. My husband and I are not into public PDA (note I said public). Peter and Rachel look appropriately touchy feely to me. His not willing to throw the "I love you" to stay in the hunt tells me he doesn't need that stunt to stick around.  That's interesting considering the others do. Perhaps their personality bench is not as deep.  Most of this manufactured experience is on the cutting room floor. Her break down when Matt left is evidence of this. What we are being shown is in no way the whole story.

    I haven't watched the Bachellorette since season 1, so I had to google Des (Deserie?) I now know why Rachel is so bent on getting the full package out of this show. There's the pressure of being the first Black lead, but the gravy train if you make it work is pretty darn sweet! Covers of magazines, baby nurseries getting sponsored. I don't think she's that shallow, but I also don't think that hasn't crept into her mind just a tad...

[JoBeth70]

7 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

So sick of the running up to greet the guy and then jumping up and wrapping your legs around them.

I can't imagine someone hasn't toppled over by now. Some of those women really fling themselves at the bachelors. A great SNL parody would have the men wrapping themselves around the Bachelorette. Now that would make me laugh.

[CindyBee]

6 hours ago, F. M. said:

When are the FS dates? Next week .when they meet the parents? 

 

Filming in real time went like this:  

Final four rose ceremony in Dallas, Dean goes off to Paradise

Final three meet Rachel's family in Dallas due to her sister's pregnancy;  they are filmed at three different rented mansions

Final three then jet off to Spain for fantasy suites

So its not the regular schedule, due to the pregnancy.   And Judge Lindsey will not be on once again but I'm assuming he met the final 3 off camera.

[mostlylurking]

9 hours ago, meatball77 said:

Then we had Eric's mom who said she was a bad mother so he'd learn to be a good person by himself or something

Revisionist history and excuses is all that is. Same with good old dad. I went to jail to help you!  Makes me crazy. Also someone said it looked like they were in a model home.  I think they were in a hotel or extended living hotel. Thank god for his aunt who seemed very loving.

 

Dean's family situation was way too sad to even find funny.  There have been eccentric parents on the show before, Jojos mom drinking and I think someone's dad was a taxidermist in his basement?  But Dean's family is just sad  that's not entertaining.  Why should he reach out?  I don't give a shit how much his father was suffering when his wife died. He was a father, with children that needed him.  Dean got through his screwed up childhood and made a life for himself without the help of his dad and I guess I'm an asshole because I don't think his dad deserves to be a part of his life now.

 

I came into this show really liking Rachel and I thought she could be the best bachelorette ever.  Like most people though, the longer they stay on television the less I like them.  She seemed very desperate for a proposal and kids in the episode.  I get it, that's the purpose of the show.  But it just came off bad.

Edited July 18, 2017 by mostlylurking

[CindyBee]

14 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

Also someone said it looked like they were in a model home.  I think they were in a hotel or extended living hotel. Thank god for his aunt who seemed very loving.

 

They were at Eric's Aunt Verna's place and from what I gather from twitter, it was her real home as she said it wasn't staged.   

Verna was the real star of the night for me as I found her a breath of fresh air for this show.  And she seems to be enjoying her new found fame on social media.

Edited July 18, 2017 by CindyBee

[nutty1]

8 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

How is that a positive comparison and a selling point for Rachel to accept the scraps Peter is giving her when as we saw Brooks eventually willingly bowed out of Des' season because as many stated then, as they have now, she was clearly more into Brooks than he was ever into her. And his bowing out was the best thing he did for her because she likely would have foolishly picked him and it would probably have been a disaster.

Instead she picked the guy who was always there for her and is now happily married with a child. Of course much like Peter, I never saw these amazing looks Brooks possessed so there is that. Desperate or not, I am not going to fault Rachel for not picking a guy who can't seem to even seem like he wants to be with her much less engaged. I don't care how pretty some think he is.

You quoted me but for some reason my quote is not showing up. 

I had said: "If she really cares about Peter the most, she should be willing to accept not getting proposed to. I am tired of hearing her say she wants a proposal. He actually reminds me of Brooks, undecided. And also, I think they are the 2 best looking guys ever on this show."
I think I didn't explain myself well. They are 2 unrelated observations.

The first thing I said was using Peter as an example, trying to point out how ridiculous it sounds to only want a guy who will get engaged. I should have said "any one of the guys" instead of just Peter.
And I agree....Peter should have bowed out. Maybe he wanted to and they convinced him to stay. I have heard Brooks say he wanted to leave earlier than he did.

And I stand by saying Peter and Brooks are the 2 best looking guys ever!  :)  

7 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Peter's playing this just right to become the next Bachelor: being charming and witty and appealing enough to make the F3 whilst sending enough "I don't know if I want to get married" signals to Rachel to scare her off. I still say Bryan's the pick, Peter's the next Bachelor, and all three finalists get a Fantasy Suite roll in the hay.

If I'm wrong and Peter's the pick, then I don't know who the next Bachelor will be: No way TPTB pick Eric, and Bryan comes off like Juan Pablo 2.0. Luke and Chase from JoJo's season supposedly already turned the producers down a year ago (Nick Viall was their fallback option), so maybe....Arie?

 

Luke didn't turn it down....he was supposed to be the lead. The night before he was supposed to leave, they called him and said they went in another direction. And Chase was being considered and really wanted it too. I heard interviews from both, and they both sounded very disappointed.

Edited July 18, 2017 by nutty1

[alexa]

Honestly, Dean should have gotten to stay just for the fact that he was put in the position of having to see his father after 2 years on television of all things.  Why would Rachel even encourage that kind of thing and then dump him?  She could have dumped him last week and avoided the situation as well.  Anyway, this kind of thing annoys me, and I felt bad for Dean.  That was a raw moment for sure.

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, Alapaki said:

I don't think there's been a hometown week with so many awkward family moments.  

But I also don't think Rachel acquitted herself well this week.  She came off as way too desperate to get engaged and get pregnant.  Out of all of the most recent Bachelorette's, I'd hoped that Rachel had a good enough head on her shoulders to recognize the absurdity of "the journey".  But I'm perennially disappointed when Leads that I'd expected more from end up toeing the line end up totally on board.

Peter's Mom was the parent this season to, very politely, call bullshit on the whole format.  But I think the problem is that in addition to not wanted to get engaged after knowing someone for a few weeks, Peter just isn't that into Rachel.

And, maybe it's because I find him so insufferably smug, but to me the day with Bryan came off as a paid endorsement of Miami.

lannys mom on merediths season was really in my mind the best and totally scared meredth off. OMG I loved lanny!!

31 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

You quoted me but for some reason my quote is not showing up. 

I had said: "If she really cares about Peter the most, she should be willing to accept not getting proposed to. I am tired of hearing her say she wants a proposal. He actually reminds me of Brooks, undecided. And also, I think they are the 2 best looking guys ever on this show."
I think I didn't explain myself well. They are 2 unrelated observations.

The first thing I said was using Peter as an example, trying to point out how ridiculous it sounds to only want a guy who will get engaged. I should have said "any one of the guys" instead of just Peter.
And I agree....Peter should have bowed out. Maybe he wanted to and they convinced him to stay. I have heard Brooks say he wanted to leave earlier than he did.

And I stand by saying Peter and Brooks are the 2 best looking guys ever!  :)  

 

Luke didn't turn it down....he was supposed to be the lead. The night before he was supposed to leave, they called him and said they went in another direction. And Chase was being considered and really wanted it too. I heard interviews from both, and they both sounded very disappointed.

ive been saying for years they need a fresh search....the bachelor is supposed to be the ultimate guy, a fantasy, and the retreads are boring. nothing will ever be as magical as andrew firestones season, he was truly a catch and made for great tv.

[nutty1]

I loved Lanny too!!!!

So many funny HTD's in the past, but Dean's was too sad to be funny/

[thesupremediva1]

10 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Dean looks like he's from the 90's like Brandon Walsh on 90210.

THIS explains why I love Dean so much. He's like a reincarnated Brandon Walsh (though I was always a Dylan McKay girl).

Rachel wants a proposal more than she wants love. She's going to pick Brian, and it's going to be a shame. His mother is worse than anything wooden-spoon wielding Italian mom-to-an-only-son I've ever seen and honey, as a 100% Italian women, I've seen a whole lot. I just can't see that ending well once the Bachelorette bubble bursts.

When it came down to the last rose, I just shook my head. Dean and Peter are so hot. I'd be throwing roses at them and begging them to stay. That's probably why I'm alone. I'm shallow. Peter and Eric aren't ready to propose and Dean is most likely too young. So that leaves Bryan. But he's the one I would have sent packing tonight. That family just came on way too strong. 

I think one of the most exploitative things this show has ever done is filming Dean's family. I wouldn't be surprised if producers got wind of the home situation and forced Rachel to drag him through hometowns just to film that mini circus. It turned my stomach. I'd bet any amount of money that Dean begged to do anything for hometown other than seeing his father. And of course, he's cut as soon as they're done grabbing all the damning footage. Sick sick sick. 

[dleighg]

6 hours ago, AudreyHorne said:

I am all in on Eric.  I don't think he's going to win and he might not be right for her, but I find him to be a delight and a breath of fresh air and a tall drink of water and everything else!  I found his family (past issues notwithstanding) to be one of the most normal groups we've seen on this show which is a good sign of his "good-personess" in my mind.

 

He is delightful. (I still don't think I could handle his speech pattern though, as a partner. I guess I'm shallow.) Breath of fresh air indeed. His smile is so genuine.

[Mocking Bird]

Oh, my!  Not one word about Peter's mom's Kate Gosling reverse mullet hair cut??  Being far older than what I assume is the age demographic of fellow commenters is here, I was really put off by his mother's "He'll probably have kids with you, but isn't ready to get married" bit.  It's just sad that making babies with someone these days ranks second in what is now considered as a "commitment".

Eric's mom's "I didn't show you any love, attention or support as a child to make you stronger" was just a pile of self-indulgent bullshit.  I admire Eric for apparently not harboring any resentment, but can't help but believe he's romanticized his crappy upbringing and crappy parents.  It seems to have worked for him though and I find him far more likeable than the vast majority of contestants that have done this show.

Dean's family visit was so depressingly uncomfortable to watch, but I won't condemn him for going, even with him knowing how horrible it was going to be.  I believe, like all emotionally damaged children, a tiny part held out hope that things would be made right, not matter how deep that feeling was buried.   His father is such a delusional, narcissistic asshole with a heaping helping of mental illness on the side.  It is/was in no way Dean's responsibility to repair their relationship.  Sure, his father no doubt grieved over his wife's death, but eleven years afterward, for him to refuse to acknowledge emotionally and physically abandoning a child and the tremendous pain he caused that child proves his so-called spiritual enlightenment is just so much egocentric claptrap. 

[truthaboutluv]

8 hours ago, waving feather said:

Many people felt sorry for Des or called her desperate to be engaged (I believe the term used was "settling") when she accepted Chris' proposal. Now she is happily married with a kid to him. So I always believe it's not the circumstances that brought the couple together but how they make it work in the real world. But no point chasing after someone who is lukewarm towards you hoping they will love you back one day, especially on this show. 

This exactly. People were viscous towards Des and Chris, even though Brooks chose to leave and pretty much confirmed he was never into her. Even after Des moved to Seattle, was clearly putting the effort to make her relationship with Chris work and almost a year passed with them still together, people would still make snide comments about her obviously still wanting Brooks. And yet here we are where some seem bothered by the possibility that Rachel may pull away from and not a choose a guy who one, doesn't seem into her and two, seems physically and emotionally unavailable.

But his concerns about proposing are realistic and so she's being ridiculous for being so hung up on a proposal, almost like she should be okay with what he's giving her and pick him anyway. Even though for all the red flags many point out about Bryan's mother, I see those things as red flags with Peter. Again, lest I am misunderstood, the red flag is not the hesitation to propose after two months of minimal time together. It's the whole he doesn't seem into her thing. 

Also, YMMV but if Rachel picks Bryan, I don't think it will be a case of "well Peter didn't want me, so I went with him". I think Rachel liked Peter well enough at the beginning but I think she was very clearly and obviously very attracted to Bryan. The woman played serious tonsil hockey with the man on Night 1 and she gave him the first impression rose. I do think if Peter had been more physically and emotionally engaged, it would be a more difficult situation for her and she might have truly been torn or he would have been her choice. But despite whatever criticisms some have had of her, I do think Rachel has shown herself to be fairly perceptive and I do think she realizes that Peter just doesn't seem as into her or committed to the idea of being with her, even putting the proposal aside. Meanwhile, she has been spending as much time with Bryan and developing a different relationship with him where in my opinion, she genuinely seems happy all the time. 

eta: Admittedly, I was distracted at points during last night's episode but I don't remember when Rachel was acting so desperate for a proposal that it was almost off putting. All she said, which is what she's said from the beginning, is that she's not interested in a boyfriend but is on the show to find her husband and that she wants marriage and kids. So when one of the guys' mother is saying about her son, "yeah he wants kids and he'll be committed to you but not sure he's ready to do that in the form of marriage", why is it unreasonable for Rachel to say she finds that concerning?

Edited July 18, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[NeverLate]

9 hours ago, backformore said:

But - the show is about marriage.  If I love guy A, and want to marry him, but he's not ready, how do I choose guy B just because he's ready to get  married?  Pick based on who you love, not based on who loves you the most. 

In real life, it's OK for one person to be ready to get married before the other person is.   You date a little longer, and see if things work out.   I'm with Peter in not being ready to propose to a girl who very recently was making out with other guys.  A real relationship generally means you're exclusively dating each other for some time before you get engaged. 

Peter knows what the show is about, maybe hes like Nick, and wants a TV career.

[fib]

9 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Rachel may be getting into Panic Mode here: She's 31 years old and if she wants to settle down and have a family, realistically only has about a decade left to bear children

She also probably feels acute pressure not to be the only bachelorette never to be proposed to, as the first black bachelorette.  IMHO, the humiliation of that, the way the racial aspect would be scrutinized, would be debilitating. 

[Alapaki]

1 hour ago, Mocking Bird said:

His father is such a delusional, narcissistic asshole with a heaping helping of mental illness on the side.  It is/was in no way Dean's responsibility to repair their relationship.  Sure, his father no doubt grieved over his wife's death, but eleven years afterward, for him to refuse to acknowledge emotionally and physically abandoning a child and the tremendous pain he caused that child proves his so-called spiritual enlightenment is just so much egocentric claptrap. 

You've stated, a bit more bluntly, what I said upthread as well.

But your post better articulates the reason I have no reservations about mocking Porridge Stew's "self-adopted name".  He's appropriated the external trappings of a religion while, I'm sure, bastardizing the teachings in a new-age attempt to absolve himself of any responsibility for his failings.

What was it he said?  "You are what you say", or something like that?  So everyone else is, by definition, guilty of whatever they observe about him? 

How do you say STFU in "gong"?

[comosedice]

8 hours ago, Mooncake76 said:

I also think Rachel's final pick is Bryan. She clearly likes Peter, but that goodbye was pretty cold, void of any affection even for someone who has his walls up. To me, that wasn't a walls sitiatuon, it's a he's-just-not-that-into-you situation. 

I saw the goodbye differently. He had his head on the inside of the van looking at her like he didn't want her to go. It seems like the only gestures that matter are ones where kissing is involved. I think Peter's personality is very different from the others and he's just not that outwardly effusive, so he is seen as not interested. Rachel will not choose him but I am fully in his corner.

[Alapaki]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

This exactly. People were viscous towards Des and Chris, even though Brooks chose to leave and pretty much confirmed he was never into her. Even after Des moved to Seattle, was clearly putting the effort to make her relationship with Chris work and almost a year passed with them still together, people would still make snide comments about her obviously still wanting Brooks. And yet here we are where some seem bothered by the possibility that Rachel may pull away from and not a choose a guy who one, doesn't seem into her and two, seems physically and emotionally available.

But his concerns about proposing are realistic and so she's being ridiculous for being so hung up on a proposal, almost like she should be okay with what he's giving her and pick him anyway. Even though for all the red flags many point out about Bryan's mother, I see those things as red flags with Peter. Again, lest I am misunderstood, the red flag is not the hesitation to propose after two months of minimal time together. It's the whole he doesn't seem into her thing. 

Also, YMMV but if Rachel picks Bryan, I don't think it will be a case of "well Peter didn't want me, so I went with him". I think Rachel liked Peter well enough at the beginning but I think she was very clearly and obviously very attracted to Bryan.

I also don't think this season is comparable to Des.  IMO, Brooks was Des' one and only choice, and she only directed her attention elsewhere when he dumped her.  And that was relatively late in the season.  I'm not denying that they appear to have made it work.  I'm also not discounting that a major factor in that was their motivation to "prove the haters wrong".  But, either way, I don't think the fact of her "settling" for Chris although she had no serious feelings for him at the time on the one hand, and their ending up happy together on the other hand are mutually exclusive.

As far as this season, I do think that Bryan became her default "king of the hill" F1 very early on.  That is, she'd pretty much decided on him, but maybe wouldn't rule out something developing with one of the other guys that would unseat Bryan.  And I do think she saw Peter as the most likely candidate to do that.

I can't remember all of her interactions with Peter, so I can't tell how much of the vibe was "I'm into you, just not into marriage" and how much was "I'm not really all that into you, even for a relationship".  

But, either way, I agree that Bryan is not "a Chris" and Peter is not a "Brooks".

[ridethemaverick]

For the first time all season, I thought that Rachel just isn't all that into Peter anymore. I agree that she's a pretty perceptive woman. She felt Peter being reserved but kept him around to see why/give him a chance to open up. I think she finally saw the light during HT and is over the idea of him.