The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Brooklynista]

I like to think Jana is fine. In my mind Jana knows that the power in the house has shifted in her favor. She knows she has the upper hand now and there's a glimmer in her eye when she looks at Michelle. Michelle can feel the shift too. Jana knows she holds the key to the truth in that house and things are gonna be a-changing if Jim Bob and Michelle want her to keep the rest of those skeletons locked in that closet.

That's how it's playing in my mind anyway.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Brooklynista

[Sew Sumi]

She certainly knows where the bodies are buried, that's for sure.

[Bella]

But does Jana want that power? How would any of us know?

In another thread, and I can't recall which one, someone linked to a Washington Post article by Paul Farhi discussing how InTouch obtained the information. The IT interview subject said that there is a lot more to be revealed.

So I imagine that Jana and other family members know what other shoes are likely to drop. If Jana feels empowered by this, great. But is it more likely that she's afraid of what will happen to the people she loves and the life she knows?

[Sew Sumi]

I imagine with Mechelle totally checked out, a lot more pressure has fallen on Jana's shoulders. Knowing these secrets, whatever they turn out to be, cannot be easy. But it sheds light on why she was never allowed to marry. JB/M need her more than she needs them. I hope she is somehow being compensated VERY well for all she does in that household. I can't imagine how hard her life is. :(

[Seashell Lover]

Do you know who Jana reminds me of Cinderella.

[MzTori77]

I keep reading about other secrets and skeletons in the Duggar closet. Although it's always left at that, my mind immediately goes to one place. Without saying anything, is there any reason to believe those skeletons exist?

[Sew Sumi]

InTouch says that they have more stuff to release. They didn't even hint; they flat out made the statement. 

 

We shall see, I suppose. 

[kaleidoscope]

InTouch has added more:

 

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/11-things-the-duggars-are-still-hiding-after-second-interview-60110

[Cherrio]

But does Jana want that power? How would any of us know?

In another thread, and I can't recall which one, someone linked to a Washington Post article by Paul Farhi discussing how InTouch obtained the information. The IT interview subject said that there is a lot more to be revealed.

So I imagine that Jana and other family members know what other shoes are likely to drop. If Jana feels empowered by this, great. But is it more likely that she's afraid of what will happen to the people she loves and the life she knows?

The children do have glimpses into a life of freedom. Cousin Amy?  All the travel they do.   Even being in the Today show studio seeing young women working?

       But, on the other hand, these children have been "trained" and they are all likely paranoid and ill equipped to handle much.

        There are so many of them, I hope there is a hero in there somewhere.

[TessHarding2]

I don't know enough details and you're not supposed to believe everything you read - on the internet, lol, but don't JB and ME explain that if you're a Duggar and you go astray, you're cut off from them?  A la Scientology where the one who leaves is called a Supressive Person.  Could they really lose their whole immediate and extended family for something as simple as going to a university and learning things about the world other than what was taught in their tinker toy bubble?  Getting a job and supporting themselves? These offspring HAVE to live their entire lives the way their parents want them to or else?

[Darknight]

InTouch says that they have more stuff to release. They didn't even hint; they flat out made the statement.

We shall see, I suppose.

I feel bad for Jana. She's 25 still not living her own life. But this is very exciting. More Duggar secrets. Please expose JimChelle. They deserve it.

The children do have glimpses into a life of freedom. Cousin Amy? All the travel they do. Even being in the Today show studio seeing young women working?

But, on the other hand, these children have been "trained" and they are all likely paranoid and ill equipped to handle much.

There are so many of them, I hope there is a hero in there somewhere.

I'm sure JimChelle points out how all these people are sinning.

[GEML]

We have zero evidence at all that Jana has been "allowed" to marry or has simply chosen not to. Many have made the point that if you really do believe in the Gothard world view, then the only way not to start having children right away (assuming no health issues) is to not marry. Plenty of us have read Gothard cases where young women were, at least from the outside, seemingly forced into a marriage. Jana has not been that.

And I do not believe the Duggars would cut off all communication over the long term. There may be a short term break but most families do reach an equilibrium.

[Churchhoney]

The children do have glimpses into a life of freedom. Cousin Amy?  All the travel they do.   Even being in the Today show studio seeing young women working?

       But, on the other hand, these children have been "trained" and they are all likely paranoid and ill equipped to handle much.

        There are so many of them, I hope there is a hero in there somewhere.

 

I hope someone goes, too. But as someone who left a situation, I'll tell you that nothing about it feels heroic. If some go, it'll be because they're selfish enough to think of their own happiness first, and while that's advisable in this kind of case there aren't any stories in which it makes you a hero, as far as I remember.

 

Decades later, I'm still a rat who left a sinking ship to save herself. I'm happy I left. I wouldn't have survived staying. But I left for me. And, frankly, there's nothing that feels in the least bit heroic about that. Even when you try to to pull others out, you still don't feel like a hero, or at least I never have. Because when people are staying, it generally hurts them to have it suggested that they should not stay. Even when you make a convincing case and somebody else goes, there will likely come times when they'll be sorry they left, because they were probably bound to it more tightly than you. And everybody looks back and sees the mess still there, so being out of it doesn't help the people you were bound to from birth -- hurts a lot of them, in fact -- nor does it help the world very much, just you.

 

Save yourselves! is about all you can yell to these guys, in my opinion. And for some, an exit will eventually feel like salvation. But for others, it may not look that way.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[GEML]

^^^^This. You give up a lot to leave. And say what we will, a year after Jana leaves, she's a reality star oddity wash up. We aren't her friends and we don't know her. We may be genuinely sympathetic for her, but I doubt any of us have anything to offer her for doing something so difficult.

[Churchhoney]

InTouch says that they have more stuff to release. They didn't even hint; they flat out made the statement. 

 

We shall see, I suppose. 

 

Well, I haven't looked back at exactly what InTouch said, but as I recall it (perhaps faultily), I think the statement could be interpreted two ways, actually. One -- there's more stuff to release. Or, two -- we have watertight answers to everything that the Duggars are going to throw back at us, so throw away, Duggars. What we said is going to stick.

 

Also, if there is more stuff to release, it might be big. But I can also make the argument that it's likely to be much smaller potatoes. Here it is: If they'd released smaller stuff first, InTouch would have come into a huge amount of criticism for nitpicking at this nice family -- causing them all this angst for this really minor revelation! They would have had to be on the defensive immediately, which would have robbed the real revelations of much of their power. I think they really had to come out with the biggest bombshell first, because otherwise they would have damaged themselves before they were able to drop that one. .... Now ... it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they have something equally devastating that they're going to go with, but I think it's every bit as likely -- and probably more likely -- that, if they do have more, it's lesser stuff, comparatively.

[GEML]

So far, the stuff InTouch is releasing makes them seem a little defensive. I'm surprised they are saying much at all. The police report was pretty harsh in and of its own right.

[Churchhoney]

^^^^This. You give up a lot to leave. And say what we will, a year after Jana leaves, she's a reality star oddity wash up. We aren't her friends and we don't know her. We may be genuinely sympathetic for her, but I doubt any of us have anything to offer her for doing something so difficult.

 

She also won't have any idea how to make friends, most likely, or, perhaps, have any idea that friends are people you can lean on. I didn't. I nearly still don't, many years later.

 

If she escapes, it almost certainly won't be as the whole person who knows how to navigate the normal world normally that many are imagining. She would escape as the somewhat misshapen, years-behind-in-development person she's been raised to be. Then she'd have to take it from there. That's doable, but it's also really hard. Some people may just not feel up to doing it, and I can't blame them.

[MrsMommy]

Jana is about my age, I'd take her in and show her how to have fun and still be a Christian (mainstream) of course. I'd introduce her to some friends and help her get a condo, she could do good here. Except for the fact we have a elite all men's college not gar from me and they sometimes run down the street in their short shorts. Maybe jana would learn to love that hehe

[mbutterfly]

Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.

You get a perfect example of this if you watch with the sound off. Marjorie and Josiah both like to chew the scenery. Scroll down for the video. 

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1081280/josiah-duggars-new-girlfriend-just-did-something-that-made-us-super-suspicious

Edited June 8, 2015 by mbutterfly

[GEML]

There are actually a lot of people out there who are genuinely kind and helpful to almost anyone who leaves a Fundy group and tries to enter the "world." But part of the issue is that Fundies have been taught a particular view of the "world" that isn't inaccurate - there are certainly plenty of nasty, brutish people who take advantage of you, who would do you grave physical, emotional and spiritual harm - but the most difficult lesson is that the "world" is mostly filled with people who are largely indifferent to you. When you come from a world where your every movement, and sometimes every thought Is scrutinized, that indifference is liberating to many, and absolutely terrifying to others. It's not the "sinning" that gets you, it's that no one cares that you "sin" - and this really makes you feel rather far from God, actually.

It's hard to explain if you aren't from it or haven't been through it. But I never blame anyone for not leaving. I can offer them a lot of things in the "world" but I know what they might lose. And I know why Paul said, talked about the paltriness of gaining the whole world at the expense of your own soul. My price wasn't that high, but Jana's or another Duggar child's might be, and that isn't something I tell them honestly won't happen.

[Sew Sumi]

We DO have evidence that Jana hasn't been allowed to marry. JB obviously hasn't approved anyone, and the Duggars claim that ALL the have girls turned down several men. Since we know that the guys would have to be approved by JB first, this statement is patently false. They have instead likely received lots of emails from all of those "weirdos" (tm Jessa), and dismissed them without a second thought. I think this is what the Duggars are referring to; there is no way that JB would have approved these guys without a family connection (that the Seewalds apparently had, prayer partners). Especially not given what we all now know. 

 

We've seen no guys around the TTH as we saw Ben and even Derick (spotted in  family pictures standing next to Jill) during the "get to know you" phase. It appears that no one has even made it that far with her, UNLESS it was back in the early days of the show when they were less famous and not filming as much as they do today. If Josh was 20 then, Jana was 18 and given what we've seen since, plenty old enough to court. 

[GEML]

What if Jim Bob offered Derick to Jana first, as the oldest?

[Guest]

We DO have evidence that Jana hasn't been allowed to marry. JB obviously hasn't approved anyone, and the Duggars claim that ALL the have girls turned down several men. Since we know that the guys would have to be approved by JB first, this statement is patently false. They have instead likely received lots of emails from all of those "weirdos" (tm Jessa), and dismissed them without a second thought. I think this is what the Duggars are referring to; there is no way that JB would have approved these guys without a family connection (that the Seewalds apparently had, prayer partners). Especially not given what we all now know. 

 

We've seen no guys around the TTH as we saw Ben and even Derick (spotted in  family pictures standing next to Jill) during the "get to know you" phase. It appears that no one has even made it that far with her, UNLESS it was back in the early days of the show when they were less famous and not filming as much as they do today. If Josh was 20 then, Jana was 18 and given what we've seen since, plenty old enough to court. 

None of that means she's not allowed to marry.  Trust me when I say fundies have ways of meeting - just because random guys who wrote JB haven't been selected for Jana doesn't mean if she met someone she was interested for that they would be turned away.  

 

Even more so since the scandal hit, I think way too much is being assigned to each of the girls. We don't really know the inner workings of the house or the inner workings of any of the girls' minds (including Jana). If she did leave and take the young kids, we don't know that she'd raise them any differently than their parents raised her.  All we know is that she has a sad smile and has indicated she had trouble forgiving somebody at some point. For all we know, she thinks the rod is the proper way to keep kids in line, she has been the one putting the breaks on courtship, and she thinks Cousin Amy is going to hell for kissing guys she didn't marry.

 

Constantly thinking we know what is going on in her head is robbing her of her agency just as much as we think her parents do.

[GEML]

^^^^ so agree with this.

[Happyfatchick]

What if Jim Bob offered Derick to Jana first, as the oldest?

I've thought of that myself, almost from the get-go. Actually wondered why he maybe DIDN'T try to "sell" Jana first. Maybe it wasn't, but it seems like it may have been awkward for Jill to be married and gone before Jana. I mean, based on how much stock they put in the scripture. It makes me think of Rachel and Leah in the Bible. Or maybe, as he says, he just thought Derrick and Jill would hit it off. I know we aren't there and can't make assumptions about what any of them think, or what they're "really" like, but it seems (to me) that Jill would have probably been more vocal and more forward about wanting to be married than Jana.

Jill mentioned the other night that "we" all feel as though we KNOW them, because they're in our living rooms weekly. I can imagine how odd that feels to them when strangers talk to them as if they know them. All we've seen is the TH bits and each of them on film a little bit. But from that, we get all our assumptions about Jana. I just can't even begin to imagine the weirdness going on in that house right now. They're probably trying to shelter the younger ones from knowing anything while every adult is scattered to the wind...

I just want Jana to be comfortable in her own skin, and now we'll probably never know whether she gets there or not.

[ChocolateAddict]

It's the debate that we will never know the answer to, does Jana want to stay or want to go?  She may genuinely be a Kool-Aid drinker and think that Gothard is best. Or she may be sitting in TTH thinking that her life sucks and she would chop off her own arm to get out.   Either way, we won't find out and, for all our speculation, I don't see her leaving. 

From what I understand, leaving would be bloody difficult.  I can't see her being able to half-way leave, it would probably have to be either in or out.  For a girl who has spent her whole life with her family, had a pitifully bad education and knows almost no-one who isn't Gothard, I don't imagine that she will leave. 

But in the end, we don't know Jana.  We think we do because we have seen her on TV for so many years but we don't.  

[cmr2014]

None of that means she's not allowed to marry.  Trust me when I say fundies have ways of meeting - just because random guys who wrote JB haven't been selected for Jana doesn't mean if she met someone she was interested for that they would be turned away.  

 

Even more so since the scandal hit, I think way too much is being assigned to each of the girls. We don't really know the inner workings of the house or the inner workings of any of the girls' minds (including Jana). If she did leave and take the young kids, we don't know that she'd raise them any differently than their parents raised her.  All we know is that she has a sad smile and has indicated she had trouble forgiving somebody at some point. For all we know, she thinks the rod is the proper way to keep kids in line, she has been the one putting the breaks on courtship, and she thinks Cousin Amy is going to hell for kissing guys she didn't marry.

 

Constantly thinking we know what is going on in her head is robbing her of her agency just as much as we think her parents do.

 

I have been thinking about this recently and I agree. We are all looking at these kids from our own perspective. Ideas like someone wants to "break free" or have fewer kids or go to college are from our own viewpoint and what we consider to be good or valid experiences. I've been wondering recently if Jana isn't simply extremely immature. It's much easier to see in Jill ("yeah totally!") than in someone quiet like Jana.

 

In the episode with Josie, for instance, Jana looked more like the 15 year old baby sitter who suddenly finds herself having to handle a serious health crisis, not a 25 year old young woman who could easily have a child of her own (even in my world). In the episode covering Izzy's birth Jana is standing next to J'chelle when she takes a call, and then J'chelle says "this could be you next year" and Jana says "not likely." Although we've read it a lot of different ways on this board, it sounded to me like the response of a middle schooler whose mother has just said something ridiculous about her having children of her own.

[drafan]

 

But in the end, we don't know Jana.  We think we do because we have seen her on TV for so many years but we don't.  

I still maintain we're seeing the JB-edited version of Jana. I think he's been trying to 'sell her off' to a fundie guy for years . Therefore the keeping sweet, cooking, child-rearing, sewing, etc.....all the desirable traits for a fundie wife. I'd bet she isn't "Cinderjana" when the cameras aren't rolling.

 

Who knows...maybe she had a thing for the guy that Erin Bates snagged...or somebody else that JB didn't approve of...or JB picked out someone for her that she hated. She just seems shy and reserved, so we'll probably never know.

 

It's just so sad that this is the big goal in life that has been set up for her. And equally sad is the fact that with or without the show, this will remain her goal. But it's probably just sad to viewers, and not to her. JMHO

[Temperance]

What if Jim Bob offered Derick to Jana first, as the oldest?

My feeling on Derrick is that Jim Bob met him and was over the moon. A conservative Christian with a real job, someone religious who could reasonably support the quiver or brood? Jim Bob probably thought his prayers had been answered. So my thought has been Jim Bob wanted to get Derrick into a relationship with one of his daughters. I don't really think he cared which one. I think he did want it to be either Jill or Jana since they were the oldest. Jessa was out since she was already courting Ben. That Jessa was courting with Ben shows they don't care which girl was married first. I think probably he started sharing his correspondence with both of the girls and telling them what a good guy Derrick is, and seeing who was interested. (Jill said on the show in one of her interviews that her father was mentioning Derrick and she became curious. ) I think Jill showed interest first. She started skyping with him. If Jana was interested, she seems like she'd be more cautious and slower to move. I'm not sure she was, possibly because she hadn't met him.  I do think JB talked Derrick up, and then looked to see who was interested. 

[HundFan]

 

 

Watching Josh be smug and authoritative through the lens of what we now know is both fascinating and sickening. Of course, Josh, you're the BEST person to give Josiah advice re handling women. Literally. Josh says: "There's dating, there's courting and ..."  My mind keeps filling in the blank here -- and it rhymes with "protesting."

Edited June 9, 2015 by HundFan

[Guest]

I have been thinking about this recently and I agree. We are all looking at these kids from our own perspective. Ideas like someone wants to "break free" or have fewer kids or go to college are from our own viewpoint and what we consider to be good or valid experiences. I've been wondering recently if Jana isn't simply extremely immature. It's much easier to see in Jill ("yeah totally!") than in someone quiet like Jana.

 

So true, but especially the bolded. Without getting off topic with personal ancedotes, I think it's likely that Jana isn't really interested in things like college. She might want something different, but if she hears "non-Christian college" she probably thinks drinking, smoking, co-ed dorms, and wild orgies.  She thinks of a place where they teach crazy things like people evolved from monkeys. Why would she want to go to a place that teaches the world is billions of years old when we know it's only about 6,000 years old.  

Even something like Crown College may or may not appeal to her.  

 

A lot of the former fundies I know are happiest when they live a life that is still pretty close to how they were raised. Sure, they might use birth control or they might go see PG-13 movies, but they aren't living that far from how they were raised (at least initially), because it is just so far outside their experiences and comfort zone that it makes them uncomfortable. It's hard to date normally if you've been told that it's wrong your whole life.  Also, that allows them to maintain relationships with their families moreso than full-out "rebellion." Ultimately, I just want to see Jana happy along with the rest of the kids.  They've been through a lot - I don't particularly care how they reach that happiness, I just really want them to reach it.

[kandinski]

If she ever did decide to break free,how would she do it?

She is probably being monitored and would not make it past the next town.

[Guest]

If she ever did decide to break free,how would she do it?

She is probably being monitored and would not make it past the next town.

 

I think because she wouldn't literally have to run away. She's 25. Legally, her parents have no hold on her. Now, mentally, emotionally, financially - those would be bigger obstacles.

 

I think she has broken free in limited ways - she seems to really enjoy being a leader at JTTH, trips to Asia and Central America, etc.  It's one reason I don't think she's as limited as viewers often think.  I have no doubt she and the other older girls do/did a LOT of the heavy lifting in the family, but she's allowed to leave for extended periods of time. Either Michelle must be more involved when they're gone or the family has outside help we don't see on camera.

[GEML]

For one thing, if she wanted to break free, she would start going to someplace like Cross Church instead of the Church of Jim Bob. She would say she wants to go because she wants to see more of Jill, or likes the sermon series, or wants to be part of the choir, or some other reason that sounds like nothing to any of us, but would be a shot heard round the world from within. And lots of Fundys do that.

[DangerousMinds]

Is Jana even permitted to drive anywhere alone?

[GEML]

She obviously got to Jill's house to cook without someone obviously being in the shot. She's been to Josh and Anna's without anyone else being there. So I'd say yes, she can drive alone for a "purpose" (so could Jill, when she had to deliver a baby) and there was someone meeting her on both sides.

[starfire]

DangerousMinds, on 10 Jun 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Is Jana even permitted to drive anywhere alone?

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the unmarried Duggar girls/women are required to have an "accountability partner" with them at all times when out in public. I am not sure these same rules apply to the male Duggars, like John David.

She obviously got to Jill's house to cook without someone obviously being in the shot. She's been to Josh and Anna's without anyone else being there. So I'd say yes, she can drive alone for a "purpose" (so could Jill, when she had to deliver a baby) and there was someone meeting her on both sides.

I hope she is able to experience a little bit of freedom now and then and that the "accountability partner" requirement doesn't always apply.

[dillpickles]

I actually think Jana might be pretty comfortable where she's at now. Sure, she's probably not over the moon happy, and it is probably pretty rough living in the Duggar Compound, but in some ways she has a pretty okay deal.

Do the bare minimum in cooking, cleaning, and child raisin'. Live at home for free, never have to worry about college or grtting your own "real job" and, before the duggar ship started to sink, have your own T.V show.

But, of course we know ot really isn't that great when you think about how limited she really is, but honestly, i don't think Jana knows what she's missing. It would be harder on someone like Josh, who was in DC, making his own friends, living his own life and over all being "free".

Jana probably won't try to escape, because she honestly has no clue whats out there. She hasn't experienced the same things we have. If anyone would break free, my money is on one of the marrieds, and I'd bet the most on Josh.

[GEML]

I imagine life is easier for Jana now than it's ever been. I never felt that she was particularly close to Jill or Jessa, so their leaving might have freed up much needed space in the girls' room for her specifically. There is less childcare on her now than ever. We know they don't cook, and cleaning seems to be at a minimum. She herself seems to travel some, and has as much personal freedom as any Duggar can have.

I have no idea if she's happy or not, but it's also worth mentioning that "happiness" might not be something that she cares about. Not everyone measures their success in life by whether or not they are happy.

[NoThyme]

removed because it was an old article about Jana.......... too good to be true

 

I'll check the dates next time

Edited June 10, 2015 by NoThyme

[JocelynCavanaugh]

The article is dated March 10. Do we have any more recent confirmation?

[SmallTownMom]

Just came from "pickles and hairspray" facebook page. 

 

There is a pic of Jana and Michelle with Jana posting how much she loves spending time w/her mom, and what a great role model she is.

 

What a crock.  Let's all say it together, "Damage Control".

 

Too much, too little, too late.

[JoanArc]

"I love bringing mom her Xanax!" - Jana

[Joe Jitsu913]

Just came from "pickles and hairspray" facebook page.

There is a pic of Jana and Michelle with Jana posting how much she loves spending time w/her mom, and what a great role model she is.

What a crock. Let's all say it together, "Damage Control".

Too much, too little, too late.

You know Michelle wrote that.

[Sew Sumi]

Jana's eyes look so dead in that picture. 

[msblossom]

In 3 sentences Jana repeats 2x how much she loves spending time with Michelle, I've never known her to spend any time with Michelle one on one, except when they drove over to Jill's to help out once the contractions got closer together. I haven't ever seen them have as much as a real conversation together. Must be Jana's turn for the special, precious and blessed bonding time Michelle does with each one of her kids.

Edited June 12, 2015 by msblossom

[BitterApple]

Michelle wrote that, no doubt about it. The wording is so unnatural, it totally reads as a self-post.

I've been watching this show since the early specials. I've never once seen Michelle spend one on one time with Jana. Damage control, much?

[CofCinci]

In that picture of Jana and Michelle, it looks like they're in commercial airline seats - business or first class.

I wonder where they're going? Could Jana be courting and they're off to meet him?

Edited June 12, 2015 by CofCinci

[JenCarroll]

Eyes wide open, both of them. Not even a tiny crinkle. That's a pair of fake smiles for sure.

[Vaysh]

Michelle looks like she wants to bite someone.