The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Skittl1321]

 

What happens if some of the girls chose not to get married.  How will they make a living?

In their culture, this is a non-issue.

They will live under their father's headship until they are married.  When their father dies, they will hope a kind brother takes them in.

[Hpmec]

If JimBob truly believes in "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps," then he ought to be insisting his kids start doing their part. Instead, he and Michelle refuse their older girls an education, leaving them no other option but to stay home and raise the smaller kids or get married and start having babies of their own. If that's how they choose to live their lives, that's their business. They've had a good run on tv and plenty of freebies courtesy of TLC. At some point the gravy train was bound to end and it was going to be sink or swim time. Looks like that scenario may be starting to play out. I don't wish them ill, but I do think it's beyond time they started living life outside the spotlight and making their own way in the world as millions of us do every day.

[Evagirl]

In their culture, this is a non-issue.

They will live under their father's headship until they are married.  When their father dies, they will hope a kind brother takes them in.

You're kidding, right?  Or making a joke?  Maybe you're being sarcastic.  This just can't be true in 2015!!!!!!!!!!   Please nooooooo!

[dillpickles]

You're kidding, right? Or making a joke? Maybe you're being sarcastic. This just can't be true in 2015!!!!!!!!!! Please nooooooo!

Unfortunately this is the truth. And if Husband dies, wifey will probably move in with her oldest son

[Skittl1321]

You're kidding, right?  Or making a joke?  Maybe you're being sarcastic.  This just can't be true in 2015!!!!!!!!!!   Please nooooooo!

No- this is what ATI followers believe.

 

Women do not work outside the home.

[Quickbeam]

Re: Jana...it was difficult for me to even watch this show, thinking of her as an indentured servant. I really hope she gets out and finds a life for herself. Without having to marry first and breed immediately afterwards, that is.

[dillpickles]

I want to see Jana do what she actually wants to do. Not what her parents want her to do, not what we want her to do, but what she wants. If she decides the Gothard life is for her, and she decides that herself, than I'm not even going to be mad. It's what she knows, its familiar. I know a lot of people have left under "worse" (in quotes because no one really knows what's been going on in the Duggar home) circumstances, but she isn't everybody. I feel like for every three women that escape the ATI lifestyle, three or four stay behind. I can't blame anyone for really staying behind, because they where born into this. It's all they know.

And, if Jana decides she wants off this ship, and leaves her 13 (i forgot how many of them are underaged) or so siblings behind, I won't be mad at her. its rough to say, but they aren't her kids. She doesn't have to care about them outside the realm of sibling love. She shouldn't have to draw out a great escape plan, and figure out how to provide for her mother's *precious* crotchfruit. She's done more than enough, and frankly? I don't think she could take care of them, even if she wanted too. And buy take care I mean, get them food and clothes, manage bills, get her own job, and worry about school. Can you imagine all of the parent teacher conferences she'd have to go to? Hell, most of those kids are probably super far behind, would Jana know what steps to take to insure they get the help they need? Woukd she be able to tell if a social worker is bullshitting her? And yes, she would have help from the older kids, but do any of them know? It's easy enough to say that Jana should have custody of them, and go to school and have a job. But thats unreasonable. We know she isn't prepared for the "real" world. And, even of she had a TLC show backing her up, they won't be holding her hand. They'll give her the checks and make sure Josie doesnt get hit by a car if they're close enough, but can she balance a check book? Does she really understand how to stretch a dollar? Do any of them? Yes, they (the older ones) lived through the dry rice and water phase , but i doubt they where old enough to really pay attention, or understand much about their situation.

And, if she decides to leave and grabs as many kids as she can when she heads out the door, more power to her. She has a rough road ahead, and she's truely a saint if she can juggle all of these responsiblities. I'll be rooting for her, and of TLC decides they want to film it, I'll watch the show so she can grab a little more pocket change.

(Edited because i misspelled miracle childs name, along with other mistakes.)

Edited May 29, 2015 by dillpickles

[latetotheparty]

In their culture, this is a non-issue.

They will live under their father's headship until they are married.  When their father dies, they will hope a kind brother takes them in.

 

It's like Regency England all over again.  Without the wit.

[BitterApple]

I know many people have said they hope Jana takes custody of her siblings, but to me that's just trading one prison for another. They are not her children and it certainly isn't her obligation or responsibility to raise them. Yeah it sucks that Jenny and Jordyn get no parental attention, but Jana has played the martyr long enough. It's time to get the hell out of Dodge before she becomes a basket case like Sarah Malley or ends up married to a jerk like TFDW. With the current scandal her chances for finding a husband in Fundie circles just went down the tubes.

Edited May 29, 2015 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

It's like Regency England all over again.  Without the wit.

 

 

And with much uglier clothes.

[becca3891]

You're kidding, right?  Or making a joke?  Maybe you're being sarcastic.  This just can't be true in 2015!!!!!!!!!!   Please nooooooo!

Gothard does teach that a woman is always supposed to have a male "umbrella of authority" between her and God, and if she breaks free of that umbrella, God has no choice but to allow terrible things to happen to her. So yes, they do believe daughters should remain at home if not married, and should find a male relative to live with when her parents die. It breaks my heart to think of poor Jana having to move in with Josh and Anna someday. Hopefully she'd pick another brother if she's still that committed to the patriarchal way of life.

 

It's not completely forbidden for an unmarried Gothardite woman to work outside the home, for the record, but only under select circumstances. Part time in a Gothard approved field like midwifery was allowed for Jill, and Priscilla was allowed to be away from home working at Gothard headquarters -- but only because Gothard was approved as her umbrella of authority while there. She would not have been permitted to move away to do anything else.

[CofCinci]

I think both Marjorie and Si went into courtship with visions of freedom, People spreads, five figure wedding registries and a house courtesy of Pa Duggar. Now that the script is flipped, marriage may have lost some of its' appeal.

I completely agree.

Marjorie will pull out of this courtship. Girl wants to be a star. The Duggars are disgraced.

[Loves2Dance]

I wouldn't be surprised if their courtship ended. if I were in M's shoes I'm not sure I could actually marry into that family; she is newer to the fundie world and likely isn't being shielded from the full facts of the case. Also, when she finally becomes a mom, will she truly have the ability to cut Josh out completely without it turning into a feud with Si? If my husband had a brother who had done even 1/2 of what he did, he would never be allowed in the same room as me, let alone our children.

[Patricia07]

I wonder what the chances are for any of the other Duggar kids courting in the near future.  I feel bad for Jana and Jinger.  They might never get out.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Patricia07

[Bella]

It could always work in reverse - Josiah could leave his family in favor of hers. Not likely, but I'm full of escape scenarios.

[BitterApple]

It could always work in reverse - Josiah could leave his family in favor of hers. Not likely, but I'm full of escape scenarios.

A girl can dream, right? It seems like every Duggar in-law has jumped into the deep end of the Kool-aid pretty quickly. I'd love to think Si would lean more towards the Jackson's but you know Boob would dangle a house or paid speaking gig in front of their faces and they'd be sucked back in.

[funky-rat]

I'm encouraged that Josiah interjected himself with her family.  That's a good thing.  Maybe his time at ALERT actually showed him that he was better off without his family?  It does happen.  My husband escaped to my family out of his horrible and dysfunctional upbringing.  Maybe that's why I feel so much sympathy for the kids?  They're stuck between the only thing they know (but know isn't right) and being all alone.  It took my husband years and much counseling to finally understand that his mother was broken beyond repair, and it was OK to stay away from her.  He had just gotten done having a spot of skin cancer removed.  The counselor used that as an analogy.  She said "If you have a skin cancer spot, and it's poisoning your body, what do you do with it?  You cut it off.  Your mom is poisoning your life, and your relationships with others.  She is cancer.  So what do you do about it?".  It was maybe only a year or two between that time and her passing away, suddenly and unexpectedly.  I'm glad he was finally able to reconcile that in his head, so he didn't go through massive guilt when she died (because she would have loved that).

 

I'm hoping that he went to her family, unloaded on them about how horrible it was at home, and they have, in effect, taken him in.  My parents did that very early on with my husband.  It wasn't easy - he had a lot of bad habits and a hair trigger temper.  Marjorie may have a tough time ahead of her.  I was young, and "stupid", and had that "I can fix/save him" complex that so many women have, and it was hard, but I finally realized that I will never fix him completely, but I can't say that I regret anything.  I would do it all over again, because no one should have to live the way he did, and put up with the abuse he put up with.

[Apple Clark]

@becca3891 That is terrifying...

[GEML]

I'm another who thinks Jana should be allowed to make the choices she wishes to make - including staying exactly where she is doing exactly what she's doing. She's had more exposure and opportunity than most in the Gothard world, and at some point, you do have to say, you're an adult, and I respect your choices.

But if she wants out, I'm all for it! :)

[Bella]

Agreed, I would at least like her to have an informed choice. If she wants to stay there, fine. But I'd like that to be an option, not a requirement.

[Jellybeans]

A VERY informed option.

[GEML]

But what is an informed option going to look like? There are plenty of young adults who prepare all their lives for college and then get there only to realize they don't want to be there, for instance. Or people who get a job that they thought they would love and find out it was a mistake - they are in the wrong field. I'm not sure Jana is in a position where she can, at this point, be very informed about what options are available to her. She will need to take a "leap of faith" or stay where she is.

[Churchhoney]

Gothard does teach that a woman is always supposed to have a male "umbrella of authority" between her and God, and if she breaks free of that umbrella, God has no choice but to allow terrible things to happen to her. So yes, they do believe daughters should remain at home if not married, and should find a male relative to live with when her parents die. It breaks my heart to think of poor Jana having to move in with Josh and Anna someday. Hopefully she'd pick another brother if she's still that committed to the patriarchal way of life.

 

It's not completely forbidden for an unmarried Gothardite woman to work outside the home, for the record, but only under select circumstances. Part time in a Gothard approved field like midwifery was allowed for Jill, and Priscilla was allowed to be away from home working at Gothard headquarters -- but only because Gothard was approved as her umbrella of authority while there. She would not have been permitted to move away to do anything else.

 

And it actually goes beyond Gothard too, now, doesn't it? Voddie Baucham and Geoff Botkin, among others, preach this too and aren't (now, at least, and -- I don't think -- ever?) actual Gothard followers? The whole SAHD movement, which is bigger than Gothard, is basically this -- although maybe without the umbrella diagrams.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I don't think Voddie has anything to do with Gothardism. He's a little more intellectual, if still culturally conservative. His degrees are from accredited schools/seminaries, and he's loosely affiliated with John Piper/Desiring God, which I think is more theologically grounded and less proscriptive (JMHO).

[Churchhoney]

I don't think Voddie has anything to do with Gothardism. He's a little more intellectual, if still culturally conservative. His degrees are from accredited schools/seminaries, and he's loosely affiliated with John Piper/Desiring God, which I think is more theologically grounded and less proscriptive (JMHO).

 

Indeed. Way more intellectual! ...

 

I figured he wouldn't have any Gothard influences because of that. Actually, though, I think it upsets me even more that the SAHD movement seems so strong in those more educated groups as well.

[Fuzzysox]

It just dawned on me that Jana is in charge of the mail room. Perfect opportunity to send her a letter of support and encouragement to run screaming. Just a thought.

[Happyfatchick]

Wow. The MAILROOM. Her job just got exponentially harder, didn't it? Do you suppose she got a raise in her allowance?

[GEML]

Gothard, at this point, is pretty old fashioned. And at one point, his work was considered more academically rigorous than it is now. But there has always been a strain of thought that daughters should stay at home. Culturally, it's only fairly recent that we expect people to leave home and live on their own. Even in some American subcultures that have nothing to do with religion, let along Gothardism, the idea of a daughter (and sometimes a son) leaving home before marriage would be seen as foolish and a waste of money.

[Bella]

Wow. The MAILROOM. Her job just got exponentially harder, didn't it? Do you suppose she got a raise in her allowance?

 

Maybe this will send her slipping out of the house in the middle of the night. (GEML's intelligent and realistic post is more on target, but I still have fantasies.)

[becca3891]

Gothard, at this point, is pretty old fashioned. And at one point, his work was considered more academically rigorous than it is now. But there has always been a strain of thought that daughters should stay at home. Culturally, it's only fairly recent that we expect people to leave home and live on their own. Even in some American subcultures that have nothing to do with religion, let along Gothardism, the idea of a daughter (and sometimes a son) leaving home before marriage would be seen as foolish and a waste of money.

Right, but that's totally different from demanding it and saying that if you don't, you're abandoning your god-given umbrella of authority and god is now going to let terrible things happen to you. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Right, but that's totally different from demanding it and saying that if you don't, you're abandoning your god-given umbrella of authority and god is now going to let terrible things happen to you. 

There's also a difference in adult children living at home before marriage (or even during the first years of marriage) if they're actually getting an education, working, making some sort of positive contribution to society, etc. vs just stuck there doing nothing until a marriage is arranged. 

[GEML]

But in some of these subcultures it isn't any different. I have cousins who are Irish, Scot and Appalachian who lived at home and "helped out" but never got a job and never went to college. My husband has friends who are Italian and Hispanic where it's the same. Their parents aren't monitoring then, and they aren't in the same position as Jana, for the most part, but they aren't "fully launched" either.

[becca3891]

But in some of these subcultures it isn't any different. I have cousins who are Irish, Scot and Appalachian who lived at home and "helped out" but never got a job and never went to college. My husband has friends who are Italian and Hispanic where it's the same. Their parents aren't monitoring then, and they aren't in the same position as Jana, for the most part, but they aren't "fully launched" either.

But again, this is not about an "umbrella of authority" or telling your daughters that as women they are inferior and must steer clear of most professions because it might tempt you to actually be in a position of authority over a man, a no-no, or tempt you not to pursue stay at home motherhood. That's what's so infuriating. If someone's culture thinks it's no big deal to be an adult not doing much of anything at home, fine, do your own thing. 

[GEML]

Well, it may not be explicitly said, but some sub cultures DO feel that way. Families don't have to religious to be brilliant at using guilt.

[mangosplums]

Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.

[Readalot]

Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.

for the win.

[HeyNow]

Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.

Kinda like "Glee", with Rachel and Kurt.

[BitterApple]

Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.

Omg, yes!!! My high school had several of those pairings.

[sometimesy]

Jana doesn't need Jim Bob's money. She has to tell the truth and she will make a fortune. Foreign to JB and Michelle, but it would be her ticket out of there. I wonder if a court would give a sibling visitation if they were aware that she was the caretaker?

 

I'm not worried that her reputation could be sullied in the Gothard world, the real world is much bigger and their are plenty of people who can quote scripture and do whatever fundamentalists do and still respect her has a human being.

Edited June 1, 2015 by sometimesy

[GEML]

Jana might make as much as $100,000/$200,000 by the time she sold her soul and her family to the collective media. Then, once our curiosity was sated, she would be a very lonely has been. Half of her money would go to taxes and "mangers/agents." How many of us would do that?

[mangosplums]

The idea that any of the older daughters/kids hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid 100% is just wishful thinking. Every one of them is completely brainwashed, including Jana. However, now that this scandal has broke, their show will likely be taken off the air (or at least shrunk), and thier family will stop being treated like they're special and amazing. And they will be exposed to cracks in the image their parents have built up.  Maybe all of this will lead to one, or more, of them starting to have thier very first grown-up realization that their parents don't actually know anything, that their parents are capable of being wrong, and that they are small humans with faults and misguided notions like every other person on the planet.  Maybe they'll start to realize that what they've been taught about life isn't neccessary true and have the first seeds of free thinking happen. Doubtful though.

Edited June 1, 2015 by mangosplums

[Marigny]

Kinda like "Glee", with Rachel and Kurt.

The most spot on post in this entire thread! 

[Nysha]

 

If Jill and Jessa get a spin off show, maybe there's a possibility that Josiah and Marjorie could be a part of it. Though I don't see how they could keep Jim Bob and Michelle off of a wedding episode.

Instead of paid participants, they would merely be guest who signed a release allowing their faces to be shown on camera. 

[Boton]

Jinger has been going on the road with her parents lately-----is she being shopped around for a possible courtship?

 

In light of everything that's been happening with the family, I told Mr. Boton last night that, without question, I would write the check to pay for Jinger to go to a real college and study evolutionary biology.  TLC can replace all the family shows with a "Freed Jinger" show, in which we get to go shopping with her to decorate her new apartment and show shots of her in the lab, wearing a white coat and holding up a fossil, saying, "Yep, tests confirm it's 14 million years old." Then we can see her come home and luxuriate in making a Lean Cuisine for one and crashing for the night in her big double bed in her own bedroom.  

 

C'mon, Jinger!  It'll be fun!

[Skittl1321]

Sure, in the Little House books Laura goes out driving with Almanzo, just the two of them (that hussy!) My point, and I do have one, is the levels of absurdity they've reached in their quest to keep their kids "pure."

They kiss before marriage too!  (Upon engagement.)

[sometimesy]

In light of everything that's been happening with the family, I told Mr. Boton last night that, without question, I would write the check to pay for Jinger to go to a real college and study evolutionary biology.  TLC can replace all the family shows with a "Freed Jinger" show, in which we get to go shopping with her to decorate her new apartment and show shots of her in the lab, wearing a white coat and holding up a fossil, saying, "Yep, tests confirm it's 14 million years old." Then we can see her come home and luxuriate in making a Lean Cuisine for one and crashing for the night in her big double bed in her own bedroom.  

 

C'mon, Jinger!  It'll be fun!

Jinger and Joy free!  That is the show I want to watch. Maybe on OWN or something, not TLC. (TLC takes too many liberties with the 'truth'). Jessa and Jill shows would be another platform for the Gothard lifestyle, but 2 single fundies experiencing things...yes please! I would love to watch Jana, but I think she is determined to raise her children herself. Or they could do this off camera and just post on instagram.

Edited June 5, 2015 by sometimesy

[truthtalk2014]

If Marjorie's parents are smart, they will advise them both to go to college- live in the dorms and date.  After four years, if they still want to marry then so be it.  

 

I can't imagine sending one of my children to become apart of that den of snakes and all the *bad* publicity that comes with it.  

[CofCinci]

If they spin off Jill and Jessa, I wonder if this couple will get to be a part of it?

[Missmissie173]

Jana is the Wild card and the Elephant In The Room.

 

To me, none of this is real....it is all a Duggar Game Show unfortunately. 

 

What happened to Jana?  To me that is more interesting then all the other Bull ShFt combined, and t is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma wrapped in bacon and cooked at 350 degrees for 10 years.

 

Jana Honey, what do you know and please tell, tell.  THEN get the Hell out of there!

 

We can do Crowd Funding for you instead of Fundy Funding...You Deserve a Life.

[Scarlett45]

I do wonder how Jana is handling all this. She's been the maternal figure in that house for years, and with Michelle even more checked out trying to spin damage control....