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The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

SpaghettiTuesdays

By SpaghettiTuesdays
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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Ijustwantsomechips
Ijustwantsomechips

Maybe Jana needs her own thread as a token of the respect she’ll never garner as a single woman in Gothardland.  

andromeda331
andromeda331

How about both hop in the plane close the door really quickly and fly off.  Abbie: "Where are we going?" JD: Cayman Islands. We're elope. And we're not coming back! Abbie: Wait we need

BitterApple
BitterApple

Wow, so this is what, the fourth guy to publicly release a statement denying involvement with Jana? That must be doing wonders for her self-esteem.  These guys are starting to piss me off, though

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Happyfatchick

Happyfatchick

Dear sweet Baby Jesus:  with all that is in me, I pray that this article is TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!  Please, please, please, please, PLEASE let her be making a break for it!!!  RUN FORREST, RUNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!   I don't think I've ever wished for something (for a non-family member) so badly in my life.  Please Jana, please go!!!!!  I wonder if that conversation with her parents will make air time (not!)  Also I wonder, if they have these iron-clad rules about the girls leaving without chaperones... will they send one out the door with her?   I don't believe the tabloids either, generally, but OMG I want this to be true!!!

  • Love 3
Literata

Literata

I really think Jana stays because she genuinely loves and is concerned for her younger siblings. My sister and I are 20 years apart -- we have the same parents, but I was a giant surprise -- and when my mother died when I was 4, my sister, then 24, stepped in to help my dad raise me. In fact, my dad and I ended up living with my sister and brother-in-law, and my sister definitely became my mother figure.

 

I asked her not long ago what prompted her to do something so selfless -- after all, my dad was a good parent, and I would have been OK. (Not as happy as I was with her, but it was something she didn't HAVE to do.) She responded, "I think when you're that much older than a sibling and help to care for that child, there's a part of you that feels a bond that's almost parental. I couldn't just leave you." 

 

I would guess Jana feels much the same -- although Michelle and Boob obviously are still around. I hope she's somehow able to get out of there, but I'm honestly not hopeful.

  • Love 13
Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I really think Jana stays because she genuinely loves and is concerned for her younger siblings. My sister and I are 20 years apart -- we have the same parents, but I was a giant surprise -- and when my mother died when I was 4, my sister, then 24, stepped in to help my dad raise me. In fact, my dad and I ended up living with my sister and brother-in-law, and my sister definitely became my mother figure.

 

I asked her not long ago what prompted her to do something so selfless -- after all, my dad was a good parent, and I would have been OK. (Not as happy as I was with her, but it was something she didn't HAVE to do.) She responded, "I think when you're that much older than a sibling and help to care for that child, there's a part of you that feels a bond that's almost parental. I couldn't just leave you." 

 

I would guess Jana feels much the same -- although Michelle and Boob obviously are still around. I hope she's somehow able to get out of there, but I'm honestly not hopeful.

 

I completely agree and will chalk it up to her both A - getting more of the Gothard koolaid and B - birth order. Being oldest daughter, she's had much more of the whole Gothard "program" shoved down her throat - and being oldest she's just more conditioned to feeling responsible, being helpful.

BitterApple

BitterApple

Boob and Michelle are down to three J'Slaves. Jinger is totally checked out which I take as a sign that she'll be next to marry. Joy is just beginning her indentured servitude and Jana is too valuable to send off for higher education.

I think Michelle has long since tired of Josie and Jana is needed to be a surrogate parent. Jana pretty much got screwed by being stuck with Josie as a buddy.

msblossom

msblossom

I don't know what kind of set-up the adult children have for their finances, but I would hope that Jana could go to the college of her choice and apply for some scholarships.

Is Crown College even accredited? If not, why waste her time going there? There are plenty of accredited Christian universities and colleges Jana could apply to. The first one that comes to mind is Union University in Jackson, TN. There's Liberty University in Lynchburg, VA and Boyce College in Louisville, KY. All 3 conservative, yet not fundamental.

EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

One more article about Jana possibly heading to college.  Oh Jana, I hope it is true!  Follow your heart!

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/19-kids-counting-star-jana-duggar-reportedly-leaving-tlc-show-pursue-college-1844766

 

One of the most poignant posts I ever read on here was on the subject of Jessa's wedding. The poster said something like: "I wish we'd have seen Jessa moving in a dorm instead of getting married." I so agree, and that's why I hope this story about Jana is true. All of the kids deserve that experience of freedom, making friends, developing critical thinking, and realizing how big the world is from your hometown.

 

That said, this is probably not true. But we've read so many stories about Jana breaking free that I tend to think when there's smoke there's fire. Or maybe I'm wrong and websites have taken to making fan theories appear as fact.

  • Love 3
EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

I think writers for magazines like In Touch & OK!, etc. go trolling on websites like this to get a pulse on what kind of gossip people are interested in hearing about and then they start writing all this garbage.

 

I kind of hope it doesn't negatively affect Jana, like having the reins pulled tighter on where she can go and when. Or of it does affect her, maybe she realizes all the possibilities out there and sees people are rooting for her and decides to break free. Of course, I thought the same thing about Jinger, so.

  • Love 1
Tielsmomma

Tielsmomma

I kind of hope it doesn't negatively affect Jana, like having the reins pulled tighter on where she can go and when. Or of it does affect her, maybe she realizes all the possibilities out there and sees people are rooting for her and decides to break free. Of course, I thought the same thing about Jinger, so.

This. Boob and MEchelle would look at this and clamp down on her. Drag her to the prayer closet and lock the door. Send her to yet another Journey to the Heart. We see her as not being happy so she is clearly not doing her job keeping sweet.

Barb23

Barb23

Jana's "happy face" looks forced in the puzzle picture. I thought Joy & possibly Jana had pants on in the sofa picture but looking more closely, Joy is wearing striped leggings not pants. I got all excited for nothing.

Darknight

Darknight

I don't know what kind of set-up the adult children have for their finances, but I would hope that Jana could go to the college of her choice and apply for some scholarships.

Is Crown College even accredited? If not, why waste her time going there? There are plenty of accredited Christian universities and colleges Jana could apply to. The first one that comes to mind is Union University in Jackson, TN. There's Liberty University in Lynchburg, VA and Boyce College in Louisville, KY. All 3 conservative, yet not fundamental.

Crown aka Clown is just like PCC. It's a cult college and not accredited. There's also a lot of sexual abuse going on at these colleges. It's a waste of time to attend.
  • Love 1
cereality

cereality

Honestly I think in large part Jana isn't married bc she doesn't want to be - at least not now. I don't believe that there have been no suitors. I think she's more attractive than Jill and Jessa, has more housekeeping skills and more of a heart for kids than Jessa, and a more subservient attitude than both sisters -- all of which is fundie gold. Maybe the suitors haven't been what she wanted though -- if they're the typical fundies without an education who will just want her at home raising their 12 kids. Or maybe she doesn't want to court and get married on TV. Or maybe she does have some "thought" of an education or job or something and wants to keep her options "open" bc it's not necessary that an old school fundie husband would let his woman out of the house for anything other than helping other women birth babies.

 

It's too bad Jill is a mini-Michelle, and I think probably holds over her older sister that she is married, had sex, and is birthing a child while her older sister is still at home. I don't know whether Jill would say it, but I could see her having that "I'm better than you" attitude that so many married women have in that cult. If her sister was normal, I feel like she and Derick could easily set Jana up with a conservative Christian -- a college or mission or even work friend of Derick's and they could meet in "normal" ways like the young married couple hosting a game night or BBQ where both happen to be invited. Since that option is out, if she wants to be married -- or frankly even just wants some sense of normalcy -- I wish she'd hang out with Amy. I can see Amy/her boyfriend/her friends/ex boyfriends knowing many of the conservative Christians in town. And if it doesn't lead to marriage, it could at least lead to getting out of the house with some friends. Honestly I don't buy the whole -- Ma and Pa Duggar don't let Jana out of the house. Give me a break -- they're not THAT strict -- they let Jessa move her boyfriend into the house, they let Joseph go away to "college" and JD supposedly lives alone; given all that I don't think they'd have a coronary if Jana wanted to go to coffee a few times a month with a cousin. Hell given the chaos in that house, I'm not even sure they'd notice -- they may assume she's answering letters in the mail nook; has joined the work out group w Ben and Jessa and Joy; or is at Jill's helping cook or with baby care or something. At some point, Jana can get what she wants just by sneaking around a bit.

kalamac

kalamac

I know a lot of people are of the opinion that the Lost Girls are why Jana stays, but I think, if she really does love them, they might be reason she finally goes. Like she'll look at Jenny saying she wants to be a doctor, and realize there's very little chance of that happening the way things are, with Mechelle getting more checked out every day and the homefooling likely not even as good as the bad that it was back in her day. But if she leaves, and can be a big sister on the outside that they can run to when the time comes....maybe that will be the push she needs to break free, while still feeling like she's doing what she can to help the kids who'll need it most.

  • Love 1
Barb23

Barb23

Ceriality - I agree with your post except that Boob seems more lenient with the sons. Both JD & Joe are allowed to do their thing without an accountability partner. Hopefully he would allow Jana to go out with Amy & hang out with her friends. When Derick first came on the scene, we were hoping he would introduce Jana to his friends. The Mcmansion would be a great house to entertain friends but since he fell into the vat of Duggar-Aid & has a 14 yr old clingy pregnant wife, that's not happening. I can see Jilly being in snitch mode watching every move Jana would make. God forbid Jana sit next to a guy & their hands accidentally touch at a table. Or even worse, Jana being left alone talking to a guy for hours. (Like MEchelle & Boob were allowed to do when they first met.)

  • Love 4
cereality

cereality

Ceriality - I agree with your post except that Boob seems more lenient with the sons. Both JD & Joe are allowed to do their thing without an accountability partner. Hopefully he would allow Jana to go out with Amy & hang out with her friends. When Derick first came on the scene, we were hoping he would introduce Jana to his friends. The Mcmansion would be a great house to entertain friends but since he fell into the vat of Duggar-Aid & has a 14 yr old clingy pregnant wife, that's not happening. I can see Jilly being in snitch mode watching every move Jana would make. God forbid Jana sit next to a guy & their hands accidentally touch at a table. Or even worse, Jana being left alone talking to a guy for hours. (Like MEchelle & Boob were allowed to do when they first met.)

I think Jill is a total snitch as is Anna. Frankly if I was raised like that and was the first to marry, my home would be pretty open to the sisters I was so tearful to leave behind just a few months ago. That means, if they wanted to come veg for a few hrs to get away from the howlers, they could. I'd be looking to entertain and if that means a game night ends at 9 pm but Jana and one of Derick's work friends end up hanging out in the living room for 2 extra hrs just chatting -- good, let them. It's not like if Jana gets away from her parents and chats it up with a boy, they're going to end up going at it on the living room floor. But in Jill's mind, that's probably exactly what it means and she'd be quick to tell any guy that if he wants to talk with Jana, he needs to pray about it and go ask JB's blessing.

I honestly think Jana could hang with Amy if she wanted to -- hell she could bring Joy or even grandma to assure JB that she and Amy won't get up to anything un-Christian, and if that means a little set up coffee date with Jana and a friend of Amy's -- I can see grandma saying, good for her - with no intention of telling JB, as she hangs with Amy across the coffee shop someplace and just happy to be out of the Duggars laundry room.

  • Love 4
EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

Was thinking today about how the number of photos of Jessa and Jinger has really dropped on Jessa's IG (not that there were too many to begin with). I wonder how Jinger is taking the separation. It's to be expected even in non-fundie families that marriage fundamentally affects all your other relationships, but this has to be doubly hard on Jinger, never having been separated from Jessa like you would if one of them was in college and only came home for holidays. Joy and Jana seem to have paired off so I wonder if Jinger's now the odd man out by default.

 

Not that Jessa doesn't visit....but I hope they stay close.

  • Love 1
Hpmec

Hpmec

Jana is a 25-year-old woman. It's beyond sad that she can't pick up and move out. She has tons of child care and housekeeping experience. She could make big money as a nanny in NYC or DC, enough to pay for Bible college. It's ridiculous that she can't get to know a man unless he passes muster with Boob and agrees to the arcane courtship rules. That narrows the field considerably. Her twin lives alone, has learned to fly, and tools around in a police car. She's stuck at home caring for her selfish mother's kids. I hope that at some point she decides she's had it with being taken advantage of and that it's time to have a life of her own. Since she's an adult, there isn't much Boob and Mullet could do to stop her.

  • Love 7
BitterApple

BitterApple

The only problem I see is I doubt Jana has the financial resources to make a break for it. As everyone else said, Jill and Anna aren't exactly trustworthy and I doubt they'd put their gravy train at risk by hosting a wayward sister. I don't think Boob is necessarily holding Jana prisoner, but I don't think he's making the same options available to her that he did for his other kids.

  • Love 6
cereality

cereality

While Jana may (or may not) want a different life, I think she doesn't want to cut family ties. Sure if she was really determined, she could line up a nanny job in DC and frankly could even get the family hiring her to pay her way from Arkansas; for a 2 parent working family spending thousands per month on child are -- a $300 plane ticket for a nanny that doesn't have the financial means to get started wouldn't be a deal breaker; frankly she could probably get some kind of behind the scenes/office gig with tlc too. But who knows how JB and especially Michelle are for real. If a daughter of theirs develops a mind of her own and leaves is she shunned? Can she come home for Christmas? Can she call and talk to her younger siblings or will she suddenly be considered an un Godly bad influence who must stay away? I know JB still sees his sister and Amy despite their life choices, but Michelle wears the pants when it comes to their girls and she had no problem cutting her own family out.

  • Love 4
GEML

GEML

In another thread, I mentioned that none of the Duggars are very modest, and I included Jana. I sometimes think she is a little more honest, and the family lets her get away with this because she's the oldest girl and the " rebellious" one, but she isn't modest in the she seems to be the most unhappy of the group, the least sure of what she wants, and the least defined. All of those things make her stand out to people, and I'd argue again, I still think that a lot of our sympathy is helped along by the fact that she is physically attractive but she seems so unhappy. In many ways, she is the most like Michelle - perhaps why she and Michelle have always clashed - in that she doesn't seem to have a "heart" for children and domestic work, but will end up spending her entire twenties doing it and being resentful of it.

  • Love 2
msblossom

msblossom

From my pov, I don't see Jana being the most like Michelle.

Regarding the rumor/magazine articles about Jana leaving the Duggar household for college, my opinion is this:

If Jana really wanted to go to college and had a plan for what she wants to study and has done the research on the colleges she would like to attend and apply to and presented it to JB in an adult and passionate way, I do think JB would hear her out and consider it even though he doesn't value or see the need for an education and ideally wants all of his girls to marry and have a quiverful of children. I think JB knows his older children quite well and loves them. He knows Jana and he's seen (and depended on) her raise his children and the sacrifices she makes on a daily basis. I think he wants her to be happy and doesn't want to be estranged from her. I don't think his immediate response would be to support the idea, but I believe he would consider it and "pray on it" and eventually come around if that was what Jana really wanted to pursue.

  • Love 2
EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

In another thread, I mentioned that none of the Duggars are very modest, and I included Jana. I sometimes think she is a little more honest, and the family lets her get away with this because she's the oldest girl and the " rebellious" one, but she isn't modest in the she seems to be the most unhappy of the group, the least sure of what she wants, and the least defined. All of those things make her stand out to people, and I'd argue again, I still think that a lot of our sympathy is helped along by the fact that she is physically attractive but she seems so unhappy. In many ways, she is the most like Michelle - perhaps why she and Michelle have always clashed - in that she doesn't seem to have a "heart" for children and domestic work, but will end up spending her entire twenties doing it and being resentful of it.

Interesting. Thank you so much for elaborating. I do think there may be a bit of resentfulness like you mentioned, leading to stewing in silence. A bit of martyrdom, maybe. I think mostly of when Jill asked her to do all he bridesmaid dresses. I am the biggest pushover in the world and even I would have been like, "Okay. Who's going to help me?" I would say it might be so deeply ingrained in her to stay sweet, but you see people lIke Jessa who, if it had been her, would probably have spoken up.
JoanArc

JoanArc

 

From my pov, I don't see Jana being the most like Michelle.

 

I agree. Jessa is mini-Mechelle. All looks, all about attention, narcissist. Married to a simple, religious dope. Uses her position on the bottom to rule. No heart for children, or anything beyond her own nose. Repeats platitudes like a doll with a pull sting.

  • Love 8
cmr2014

cmr2014

 

If Jana really wanted to go to college and had a plan for what she wants to study and has done the research on the colleges she would like to attend and apply to and presented it to JB in an adult and passionate way, I do think JB would hear her out and consider it even though he doesn't value or see the need for an education and ideally wants all of his girls to marry and have a quiverful of children. I think JB knows his older children quite well and loves them. He knows Jana and he's seen (and depended on) her raise his children and the sacrifices she makes on a daily basis. I think he wants her to be happy and doesn't want to be estranged from her. I don't think his immediate response would be to support the idea, but I believe he would consider it and "pray on it" and eventually come around if that was what Jana really wanted to pursue.

I agree with this msblossom. While I think JB is theoretically on-board with the whole Quiverfull thing, I think that for him it is more about protecting his children from the big bad world rather than forcing them into a role. I don't think he sees any value in education, and I doubt very seriously he would ever pay the tuition.

 

On the other hand, I don't see any of them, from JB down to Josie as having the skills to formulate a plan and carry it through. They have mentioned that some of the boys might be a little ADHD, but I think that this affects the entire family. They have a lot of ideas and plans, and there is simply no follow-through. There are dozens of examples, but think of the house that Jill/Derick live in. JB bought that house YEARS ago with the intention of renovation. It's even been on the market since the original purchase, and it was a complete disaster when they were cleaning it before Jill and Derick moved in -- the floors hadn't been carpeted.

 

I think it's possible that Jana has mentioned that she would like to leave the house and go to college to someone at some time, but I would be really surprised if she had researched schools, entrance requirements, financing options, etc. 

  • Love 1
msblossom

msblossom

I think it's possible that Jana has mentioned that she would like to leave the house and go to college to someone at some time, but I would be really surprised if she had researched schools, entrance requirements, financing options, etc.

I agree with your entire post, cmr2014. And if there's any truth to Jana pursuing college, I agree that she would have next to no knowledge about how to pursue it. Which leads me to believe that Jana would have to be in contact with someone who is actually in college or has been to college to help guide her as to how to go about it.

  • Love 1
Chalby

Chalby

So Jana, if she ever gets out of that house and isn't, in fact, the designated maiden-aunt-for-life, could very plausibly feel the same way.

I always thought Jana had a lovely disposition and she's very attractive. Having said this, I assume she has not been interested in settling down. I wish she could go to college (if indeed she even graduated) and move out on her own. She's had no life to speak of and she's due.

Vaysh

Vaysh

(edited)

Am I getting the timeline wrong if I think that Jana and John David grew up right smack dab in the middle of the early Gothard years? As in that's when their early childhood was spent? Boob and Michelle had Josh, then miscarried J'Caleb, then gave up on birth control and sanity, joined the Quiverful movement and ATI? Because if so, the twins probably had to suffer the brunt of all the glowing convictions of the newly converted. Young enough to be enthusiastically raised by the disgusting Pearl principles (whereas Josh had a few years of freedom from that at least) where any sign of "rebellion" (up to and including not cheerfully accepting corporal punishment with a smiling and grateful "countenance") would result in increasingly harsher punishments. We don't know for sure if the Duggars fully embraced the teachings of the Pearls but I don't see why they would recommend To Train Up A Child on their website if they didn't agree with the methods in it.

 

It could just be that Jana and John David are both lumps by nature, but if you've had every sign of disobedience, curiosity or spirit beaten out of you in infancy and early childhood you will probably develop a personality as inoffensive and bland as you can, just to avoid notice and painful consequences. If showing your true feelings will have negative repercussions you will learn to hide those feelings out of self preservation. If you're constantly told those feelings are wrong and sinful (and will anger not only your parents but also your God), then you will probably learn how to suppress them throroughly.

 

I don't think Jill and Jessa came out unscathed either, but their core personalities are different so they ended up as the perfectly enthusiastic kool-aid drinker collaborator child (Jill) or like Jessa who seems to put up a smiling yet indifferent facade whenever she is faced with anything that makes her uncomfortable (I still can't figure out how much of what we see of that girl is real and how much of it is a mask). The sub-conscious strategy of Jana and John David however appears to have been camouflage.

 

 

ETA: Reading through this post again I realise I rather ran with it, but at the start it was intended as a reply to BitterApple's post above about how Jana and John David seem asexual. The point I was trying to make was that the early years of their upbringing may have contributed to that. Not that they necessarily are asexual but that after having learned to suppress any natural feelings and urges at a young age they may come across as such.

Edited by Vaysh
  • Love 9
Joe Jitsu913

Joe Jitsu913

I wonder if those jacked up bridesmaids dresses were Jana's subtle F.U. to Jill for sticking her with all that work.

I hope Jana is single by choice but I find it odd that both her and JD are so weirdly asexual. It's like they don't have hormones.

Like Josh, JD has something quite perverse about him. I wouldn't be surprised if JD has some weird fetish that no one knows about.

  • Love 3
HelenaBeat

HelenaBeat

I'm betting that if enough money gets waved in Jinger's face, she'll write the tell all and pose for Playboy. She looks like she is looking for an escape route. Someone has to break free, right?

Me and a friend always said that Jinger should take Jana and Joy and escape to L.A. to wear bikinis, start an indie pop band, and learn to dance.

HelenaBeat

HelenaBeat

(edited)

Ok I've been reading other blogs and forums and things, and I'm confused, why is it only Free JINGER? Why not Joyless Anna? Honestly, it seems like Jinger is just as much of a KoolAid drinker despite the frequent eye rolling, but Joy has somewhat more of a damned personality and a legit interest in life outside of pregnancy and marriage. (I'm engaged, I've got nothing against marriage just to clarify but I'm also in college living my life). Joy was raised by Grandma Duggar who is much less of a zombie than the rest of them IMO. She doesn't have a knack for kids, and every time I can remember them getting asked what they're looking for in a guy she has just said something along the lines of, "I don't know yet, I'm not planning on getting married anytime soon." Also, it might be just me, but the only real relationship I see in their family is between Joy and Grandma Duggar.

Edited by HelenaBeat
  • Love 1
dargosmydaddy

dargosmydaddy

I think the Free Jinger mantra started quite awhile ago (the 16 Kids and Counting days), when Jinger was in her mid-teens and seen as rather "spunky" (the eye rolling, etc.). At this point, I think most people have realized she's not likely to bolt, and I'm sure many of us would love to see Joy (or Josiah or Johannah and Jenny down the road) make a break for it.

phoenix62

phoenix62

Don't get me started on Anna and her woe is me, I cannot take care of my own children spiel. I have no sympathy for her or Michelle. I also expect the same type of behavior once Jill has more than one kid.

Wow. If she can't take care of the children she's got...then DON'T HAVE ANY MORE. Grr. Get some BC pills on the down low...of course I'm quite sure that will never happen.

Get seperate bedrooms. No more nookie for josh....I'd venture to say he'd probably welcome that, if it meant no more kids at least for a few years..

That's so sad that the sisters in law are having to take care of her kids. Isn't it bad enough they have to take care of thier brothers and sisters?

  • Love 3
Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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