S19.E06: Nominations #2; Den of Temptation #2

[llewis823]

9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Kevin is low-key shady. That was interesting the way he straight up lied to Cody's face about his vote and essentially threw Ramses under the bus. He might be a dark horse and I'm okay with that even though I am still Team Alex.

I am liking Kevin more and more for this very reason. I am starting to think that he knows quite a bit about Big Brother and is just playing dumb so they underestimate him. Or he is just shady to begin with and really doesn't know much about BB. Either way, I am finding him entertaining in a train-wreck sort of way. lol

[llewis823]

9 hours ago, Thalia said:

Victim Noises would make a nice internet nickname.  

Or an alternative rock band name. lol

[Suzysite]

My dislike for producer-planted Paul and his YourBoy manipulation is so intense, that I'm actually feeling a little bit sorry for Cody and Jessica.  Yes, neither are nice people, but that's what Paul's personality has done for me.   He cannot leave soon enough.   I wish it were possible for spoilers to exist so that if I knew he was going to win I'd just quit the season right now.  

 

To clarify...I do understand that spoilers concerning the ultimate winner can't exist on an ongoing, semi-live show. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Suzysite

[watch2much]

still can not stand Paul.  Would someone please tell Jessica the correct grammar is "Cody and me" unless using it as the subject of the sentence.

[Cutty]

Starting to wonder how Cody passed the psych eval to get on this show. 

The guy has the personality of a door knob. I'm guessing the only reason he was cast was because of his sociopathic tendencies. 

This season has a Boston Rob Redemption Island feel. Bunch of toadies falling in line behind the "famous" guy.

[PaperTree]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

And I really needed to hear the rest of the story he was telling Ramses when Ramses got called into the Den of Temptation. He was saying, "Now when the police come in, by the time you get from the door to the phone booth......" and he got cut off. What the what what??? Come on, I need to know more!!!!

I'm hoping one of our feed watchers can fill us in!

[candall]

I want Josh to stick around because I like to watch him.  One of my favorite BB moments for all time is Josh saying, "But what they don't realize is that I'm playing for MYSELF. (ha!)"  Oooooh, secret strategy!

Okay, so the lad's in over his head, but I don't think he's being pecked to death, like Megan.  And he probably doesn't have a secret power background behind being a . . . what?. . .male hair product salesman? . .either.

 

I'm another one who would've skipped the dramatics and artificial subterfuge and just put Cody and Jessica straight onto the block.  They've all been in there long enough to know there are secret boomerangs floating around with the potential to detonate standard play.  Which is exactly what happened.

[ghoulina]

23 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

I'm hoping one of our feed watchers can fill us in!

Yea, that would be cool....IF he re-told the story after Ramses left the room. Was he telling more than just Ramses? I just really need to be in on that conversation! LOL

[jumper sage]

12 hours ago, slasherboy said:

What was the temptation?  I had a kitchen emergency (my tomato fell onto the floor and splatted) and I missed it.

Was it a garden tomato?  I can see why you ran.

Cody can't read a room or a vote.  When he saw that most of his alliance changed sides he should have quickly started repairing relationships he damaged.  Sadly, he took the path of asshole.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

I agree that Josh is a tad over emotional, but no need for Cody and his puppet to bully him the way they did. Cody really scares me, that non-blinking glare that he gives. 

 

7 hours ago, vb68 said:

Damn if I didn't feel some sympathy for Josh after that. Yes he does need to learn to let things lay and basically just to grow a thicker skin. But Cody and Jessica focusing on him like a laser beam when they got deserted  by their whole team reveals some not very pretty character insights. Cody won't risk a confrontation with the dudebros who betrayed him much more directly than Josh.

Josh's tendency towards emotional reaction is exactly WHY Cody and Jessica are targeting Josh with their anger; it's no different than grade-school kids on the playground picking on the one kid in class they know is the easiest to make cry.  It's straight out of the textbook for Mean Kids 101: if you're upset, find someone else and make them feel just as bad as you, if not worse - and the emotional response provides immediate and gratifying positive feedback to their bitchery. 

I guarantee you if Josh's reaction to their needling was more along the lines of "Ahhh, go piss up a rope", Cody and Jessica wouldn't even bother.

 

7 hours ago, vb68 said:

And Cody drowning in his VICTIM NOISES.  Seriously.  The lack of some self-awareness there is  a little overwhelming.  If Josh is in over his head, Cody is as well in his own way. 

Swear to god.  What does all of Cody's and Jessica's fussing boil down to?  "We're pissed because you didn't play the way we wanted you to!"  Well, boo fuckedy hoo.

 

6 hours ago, Summerday said:

How is the curse of having to put yourself on the block anywhere close to equal to having to wear a toad costume? Ramses got screwed, that just seems really unfair.

The same way three weeks of protection from eviction is anywhere close to a one-time substitution on a veto comp.  :)

 

1 hour ago, llewis823 said:

Or an alternative rock band name. lol

Already called dibs!  :D

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Starting to wonder how Cody passed the psych eval to get on this show.

The guy has the personality of a door knob. I'm guessing the only reason he was cast was because of his sociopathic tendencies. 

I haven't watched every season of BB. Has there ever been a houseguest like him, with his oddly robotic affect combined with the arrogance to think he'd win with that approach? Or is he just completely lacking self-awareness?

Quote

And Cody drowning in his VICTIM NOISES. 

He chose to use two words and four syllables to say "whining." I'm thinking his vocabulary module needs updating.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Joimiaroxeu

[PaperTree]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Cody seems to be all cocky when things go his way, and all whiny and petulant when he loses.  Jessica seems to be acting like his female twin.

I hope they both go sooner rather than later.

If the houseguests are thinking ahead about a possible buyback, they should bounce Jessica (ed. or WhistleNut) next so one of them stays gone.

Edited July 10, 2017 by PaperTree

[iMonrey]

This whole "temptation" thing is driving me bonkers. Clearly, the producers either do not understand what "temptation" means, or they don't think we will. If there is no potential downside to accepting what is offered, that's not a "temptation." It's a gift. "We offer you this advantage; no harm will come to you as a result of it, but someone else might get burned." Who wouldn't take that?? What's even more ridiculous is letting Christmas choose the three people to get "cursed." What utter bullshit! Why are they calling these "temptations?" Why not just call them what they are? They are audience-voted (allegedly) advantages, period. Straight up. "Vote for the HG you want to give a special advantage and power to harm someone else." 

There needs to be some downside to accepting these "temptations" - like an automatic nomination if you accept, or an inability to compete in the next HoH. Something that would make the enticement dangerous. Nobody is ever going to refuse a "temptation." This is just stupid as hell. 

And honestly, I hope the producers see what a gold mine they have in Cody and work overtime to save him, because once he leaves it will be nothing but Paul and some other people. It's almost that way now, except for the fun the editors are having with shots of Cody set to scary music. 

I probably won't be able to watch anymore if it's just Paul and everyone else kissing his ass. I was cringing over the way he was crowing about getting "revenge." Revenge for what? You couldn't even be nominated - nothing happened to you! His sense of entitlement is understandable the way Alison Grodner bent over backwards to insure he'd be safe.

[Vixenstud]

Quote

I wish it were possible for spoilers to exist so that if I knew he was going to win I'd just quit the season right now.  

Pffffft, you may as well quit then, ‘cause I’d be extremely surprised if he was brought in to lose.   And to think I crushed on him for half his season.

Am I the only one that cain’t stand Xmas?  She’s like the female Paul.

Matt is like the white LL Cool J with the tongue thing….he’s so frickin’ hot and I can’t believe he’s wasting that hotness on Raven, yuck!

I thought I was extremely sensitive; Josh makes me look like a ballbreaker!  While I hate Cody/Jessica being so mean to him, he was warned to walk away….if someone doesn’t want to talk to you don’t appear thirsty, just leave them to sulk. 

Cody is just too intense, I’m hoping he’s not that way with Paisley.

[Gummo]

Okay, confession time -- I like Paul, I find him entertaining and amusing. and a good game player. And it's not his fault if there are producer shenanigans afoot to keep him around.

And people flock to Paul the same way they did to Boston Rob because of that uncategorizable X-factor -- call it charisma. I mean, by the end of the veto comp, he literally had THE WHOLE HOUSE WORKING FOR HIM, convinced that it was a "team" effort. And he had enough social game savvy to change his original plan when others objected, pick two people outside his alliance as pawns, and somehow convinced them both to go along with it.

I don't care what you think of the guy, that's some superior mindfuckery right there.

So glad to see Cody's cojones caught in a vice, I disliked him on first sight. An arrogant, humorless psychopath, he came into this house thinking he could run this game like a military campaign and everyone would fall in line behind him because of the sheer power of his non-existent personality.

Well, guess what, Cody, BB isn't a war, it's junior high school and you're not one of the cool kids anymore. 

[le bordel chaud]

I think it's safe to say that Cody is the worst.

I am struggling to find any HGs to like this season, although I did miss a couple episodes. So far, I think I like Mark for some reason.

[iMonrey]

Quote

And people flock to Paul the same way they did to Boston Rob because of that uncategorizable X-factor -- call it charisma.

People aren't "flocking" to Paul because he has "charisma." Nobody was "flocking" to him last season and he hasn't gained "charisma" since then. But your comparison to Boston Rob is apt, because the reason everyone wants to align with and work with Paul is because they know he is a "fan favorite" and the bulk of the camera time will revolve around him. Hanging with Paul means maybe getting some of that camera time too and becoming the next "fan favorite." Everyone wants their fifteen minutes of fame and the best way to get it is to hang with the vet.  

Now, I don't actually hate Paul, I'm just sick of him. I got enough of him last season, and not only is he back, he's the only returning vet and the whole show seems to be revolving around him. It's exhausting. If they had to bring back vets they could have at least brought back four like last year so we didn't spend 95% of our time covering Paul to the exclusion of everyone else. It's The Paul Show. Great for Paul fans - not so much for anyone else.

Edited July 10, 2017 by iMonrey

[Cherry Cola]

I want to see more Kevin in the episodes.  He is hilarious. 

I felt bad for Josh.  He is very sensitive, and I don't think he deserved to be treated like that by Jess And Cody at that time. Especially since he went in to make things right.  I understand he is annoying, sure, but didn't deserve that verbal attack.  Whoever said it is classic mean girls 101, I agree. 

[laurakaye]

Cody and Jessica ganging up on Josh was disgusting, especially when Josh was attempting to talk to them and Cody got visibly, scarily angry and told him he couldn't even speak.  And I don't even know what Jessica's problem is...her showmance partner goes rogue and she blindly follows him because - he's cute??  She knew he ticked off their entire alliance.  If she goes to that alliance and says, hey - I didn't know anything about if and I'm as upset as you are, she wouldn't have an enormous bullseye on her back.  What she's doing makes no sense - they've been in the house for a couple of weeks and she's going to risk furthering herself in the game for a cuddle-buddy?  She could've distanced herself from him like Mark did but she chose not to, so she needs to stop whining about how everyone associates her with Cody. 

Paul is tolerable so far, only because he's not yet turned himself up to 11.  I can handle him if he stays sort of low-key and doesn't scream in his DR sesssions.

I love Kevin, if only to see what he's going to wear.  That is one sharp-dressed man!

Edited July 10, 2017 by laurakaye

[Mumbles]

Do these players get screened psychiatrically? If Josh has some mental issue then I feel bad for him. If he just finds the game hard and misses his family, then he shouldn't have come on the show. I do not like seeing people suffer so it does pain me to see him melt down (plus I sympathize with whoever in the house is the object of the meltdown). The way he treated Megan for something I don't even understand (and I am not a Megan fan) and the way he acted out during that first HoH competition makes me think there's something off with him. And to put it politely he does not seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Do these players get screened psychiatrically?

No. And every year someone asks "how did so-and-so pass the psych eval?" A lot of fans have the mistaken belief that people who audition for reality shows go through some kind of official psychiatric evaluation. This long-held fallacy probably stems from an interview Mark Burnett gave way, way back in the summer of 2000 when the first season of "Survivor" aired. He claimed that all 16 contestants had undergone rigorous physical and mental health screenings. Whether or not that was true is debatable, but as a general rule, the audition process for Big Brother and other reality shows does not include any kind of official screening by a mental health professional. People are cast thru talent agencies that specialize in feeding reality shows their contestants and they go through an audition process competing for specific roles the producers want to cast.

At any rate, Josh went through a long audition process and was interviewed by several people - all of whom no doubt realized he wasn't quite "normal" assuming they spent more than two minutes having a conversation with him - and they approved his casting because of - not in spite of - the fact that they knew he'd be off-kilter and probably make "good TV." We always get people who are hair trigger personalities, or a little off-center or are just not real bright. That's what they're looking for.

[llewis823]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Now, I don't actually hate Paul, I'm just sick of him. I got enough of him last season, and not only is he back, he's the only returning vet and the whole show seems to be revolving around him. It's exhausting. If they had to bring back vets they could have at least brought back four like last year so we didn't spend 95% of our time covering Paul to the exclusion of everyone else. It's The Paul Show. Great for Paul fans - not so much for anyone else.

You nailed it. 

[slasherboy]

5 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Was it a garden tomato?  I can see why you ran.

Yes, it was a homegrown Bradley straight from the garden that very day!  It didn't totally splat and I was able to enjoy it with my meal, thankyouverymuch.

 

 

2 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

I hope he's not that way with Paisley.

Who's Paisley?

[MV007]

Cody has his faults but I found it a little ridiculous when Paul mumbles to himself that Cody doesn't want to go to war with him.  Umm no buddy its the exact opposite actually.  You would think people would ramp down the war metaphors when playing with an actual marine.

[AlleC17]

18 hours ago, Artsda said:

Yup. This is going to ruin the entire season and basically give Paul the win. Which is probably what AG wants since he didn't get to win last year.

Agree.  If this happens, I am out, and I don't even like Cody, but I do love that he cannot stand Paul.  Neither can I.   I have no interest in watching such a one sided farce. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Whatever Cody did in the Marines didn't involve psy ops. 

Well, Megan was a military interrogator and look what happened to her. 

[PreBabylonia]

On 7/9/2017 at 9:11 PM, Dewey Decimate said:

Each time they played the hilarious freak-out music when cutting to Cody during Paul's HoH reveal,

I thought the music was funny but I was unsure if they were going for a horror feel or robotic. It could have been either....

23 hours ago, North of Eden said:

This season started out with great promise. It seemed to have been one of the best casts in a while but it all unraveled once Paul was trotted out. It has literally become THE PAUL SHOW.

I couldn't believe it when they started giving Paul tickets.

I really don't mind Paul this year...so far. He brings the entertainment. That's why I watch the show - to laugh out loud. Beat the psychotic robot and his bitchy, overly dramatic showmance any day. Once Cody and Jessicz are disposed of, we can learn more about the other potential villains. At this point, I am rooting mostly for Kevin and Christmas. The other houseguests are getting so little air time compared to them and Paul, I don't feel like I know them well at all. As the season goes on, formerly pleasant seeming people turn out to be raging lunatics or charming con men/women. As long as I am not seeing/hearing misogyny, racism, sexism or homophobia, I am okay with what is going down.Compared to other seasons, this is a cast with loads of potential.

23 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Somebody's going to need to explain to me like I'm stupid why Paul initially picked two people from "his" side of the house as pawns as opposed to -- as Mensa candidates Mark and Elena pointed out -- two people who aren't really on his side. I guess maybe he didn't want to make enemies, but he certainly didn't make more friends.

 

I don't get it either. Ideally, Cody goes but if he wins veto (and assuredly, uses it on himself), then what could he do without any friends or alliances? He certainly lacks social skills and the ability to hide intentions for strategic reasons.

12 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I loved the sinister music they played every time they focused on him. 

 

Wait, I thought the Vetoad thing meant they couldn't participate in the Veto? Haha, did I totally misinterpret this punishment???

I thought it was some veto thing too, not silly costumes!

10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Cody seems to be all cocky when things go his way, and all whiny and petulant when he loses.  Jessica seems to be acting like his female twin.

I hope they both go sooner rather than later.

Hmmmm so the male Rachel? Although at least she was a challenge beast. And some of her meltdowns were amusing.

7 hours ago, Gummo said:

Okay, confession time -- I like Paul, I find him entertaining and amusing. and a good game player. And it's not his fault if there are producer shenanigans afoot to keep him around.

And people flock to Paul the same way they did to Boston Rob because of that uncategorizable X-factor -- call it charisma. I mean, by the end of the veto comp, he literally had THE WHOLE HOUSE WORKING FOR HIM, convinced that it was a "team" effort. And he had enough social game savvy to change his original plan when others objected, pick two people outside his alliance as pawns, and somehow convinced them both to go along with it.

I don't care what you think of the guy, that's some superior mindfuckery right there.

So glad to see Cody's cojones caught in a vice, I disliked him on first sight. An arrogant, humorless psychopath, he came into this house thinking he could run this game like a military campaign and everyone would fall in line behind him because of the sheer power of his non-existent personality.

Well, guess what, Cody, BB isn't a war, it's junior high school and you're not one of the cool kids anymore. 

Agreed.

Edited July 11, 2017 by PreBabylonia

[LadyJaney]

So does this Ring of Replacement thing that Christmas won mean that if Cody gets picked to play Veto, she can use it and replace him for someone else?  If so, that could pretty much seal his fate.

Gah, he is a vile, unfeeling person.  Like he seems like something is legitimately mentally wrong with him, like he could just go off one of these times.  I wanted to like him but...NO!

Jessica is your classic case "mean Girl".  Like Regina George is in the BB House.

The way they treated Josh was straight up bully behavior and being petulant children over Paul's HOH room was lame.  They were assholes to Ramses too and he wasn't even lying to them.  

How do they figure this is good game-play in any way?!

While I like Paul, I must say that I don't want to see another vet dominate the entire season while others get barely any airtime (like last year with Nicole and Davonne, among others).  I also don't want to see a vet come back and win the whole thing.  He can stick around for a few weeks, but some others have to make some big (and smart) moves...

[Wandering Snark]

10 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Cody can't read a room or a vote.  When he saw that most of his alliance changed sides he should have quickly started repairing relationships he damaged.  Sadly, he took the path of asshole.

Path of the Asshole is going to be next year's big blockbuster ninja flick.

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This whole "temptation" thing is driving me bonkers. Clearly, the producers either do not understand what "temptation" means, or they don't think we will. If there is no potential downside to accepting what is offered, that's not a "temptation." It's a gift.

I doubt they ever show us that stuff in order... so I'm sure they made sure that people couldn't guess there were three dolls missing.

16 hours ago, Summerday said:

How is the curse of having to put yourself on the block anywhere close to equal to having to wear a toad costume? Ramses got screwed, that just seems really unfair. 

Hah... yeah he did. But if you're looking for 'fairness' you are definitely tuned to the wrong show!

But yeah LadyJaney and I are on the same wavelength, it seems that Cody or Mt. Jessica (a nick even more fitting now that she blew her top so eerily) could get what they want and have their chip come up only to hear Jessica say "Uhh, not so fast. I have this thing see? And it lets me say, non you aren't playing." Every time one of them tries to make a move someone with a 'power' tells them they can't do it. That makes for some good teevee! I realllly hope it happens.

Shallow note, I thought Raven looked great with her hair up normally and not in the dumb buns.

[backformore]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This long-held fallacy probably stems from an interview Mark Burnett gave way, way back in the summer of 2000 when the first season of "Survivor" aired. He claimed that all 16 contestants had undergone rigorous physical and mental health screenings. Whether or not that was true is debatable, but as a general rule, the audition process for Big Brother and other reality shows does not include any kind of official screening by a mental health professional

A mental health "screening"  can be as simple as :   Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder or taken psych meds?   Do you feel depressed most of the time? Do you hear voices? Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?  Do you have thoughts that others are out to get you? 

It's a screening, and it hits the important points - depression, psychosis, paranoia.   It's all about liability. 

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This whole "temptation" thing is driving me bonkers. Clearly, the producers either do not understand what "temptation" means, or they don't think we will. If there is no potential downside to accepting what is offered, that's not a "temptation." It's a gift. "We offer you this advantage; no harm will come to you as a result of it, but someone else might get burned." Who wouldn't take that?? 

I believe the downside is supposed to be the fallout (if any) if/when the person who accepted a given Temptation is revealed - especially to the person(s) affected by the related Curse.  Which might still be the case, when the size of the House gets whittled down to the point it's not such a rich environment for alternate targets.

 

7 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Well, Megan was a military interrogator and look what happened to her. 

Hey now - nobody said Megan was necessarily a good military interrogator.  :)

 

36 minutes ago, backformore said:

A mental health "screening"  can be as simple as :   Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder or taken psych meds?   Do you feel depressed most of the time? Do you hear voices? Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?  Do you have thoughts that others are out to get you? 

It's a screening, and it hits the important points - depression, psychosis, paranoia.   It's all about liability. 

Besides, nobody ever categorically stated aberrant responses were necessarily a disqualifying factor; in fact, we've had some characters in the House who led to discussions here in the forums about whether the opposite might not be true - that some people were cast specifically because they demonstrated behavior which, while aberrant, also looked like it might make for good TV.

[Wandering Snark]

16 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Hey now - nobody said Megan was necessarily a good military interrogator.  :)

*lol* Good point, just because she was trained says nothing really. Like the old joke "What do you call the person that graduates last in their Med School? - Doctor."

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This whole "temptation" thing is driving me bonkers. Clearly, the producers either do not understand what "temptation" means, or they don't think we will. If there is no potential downside to accepting what is offered, that's not a "temptation." It's a gift.

[Nashville]

13 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If you had a little tomato paste, you probably could have put it back together.

<rimshot>

[CertainJewel]

Lurker here. I wanted to weigh in on the bulling of Josh. He wasn't bullied in my opinion by Cody and Jess. They clearly told him not to talk to them but he would NOT stop. When someone says they bullied him they water down actual bullying. Josh bullied Megan. Bulling is when you target someone for no obvious reason and begin to harass them for personal things like there looks, where they came from etc. Harassing to the point where you put the person in a position of cringing at the sight of you and others. Please don't water down this as bullying. It is an awful thing and should be stopped when there is actual bullying happening. 

I do believe Josh is unstable and may be mildly autistic. As much as I don't like Raven and her baby shtick I admire her for trying to comfort him.  TPTB are actually the worst human beings for even considering putting a sensitive person like Josh in BB and not at least vetting him enough to say, no he's not going to handle this well. 

I'm also beyond pissed that it is obvious that Paul is their golden boy. I'll probably skip next season if he wins. 

[Rachel RSL]

For the record, I wouldn't consider what Josh did to Megan as bullying. Josh was an asshole to her and then apologized, sincerely, afterwards. Someone being upset with you and letting you know, even if they're shouting, isn't bullying.  As for Josh not knowing when to stop with Cody, I'm firmly on Josh's side here. Cody literally would not let Josh get one single word out.  Josh never even got a chance to start. Like he couldn't even get out the words "Can we talk later?" Cody didn't get his way, decided he was going to take it out on the most emotionally fragile person in the house, and then refused to even let Josh get out a single solitary word in his own defense. I probably would have thrown something at his head and been removed from the house.

 

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

TPTB should have cast this show with house guests that have more of a personality.  It wouldn't be the Paul show if other players brought more to the table.

One vet in the house is enough.  I could think of far more annoying veterans they could have brought back.

I agree. As much as some people don't like Paul (and I'm not keen on the whole idea of returning vets, in general) if he wasn't around, this whole summer would be about the showmances dominating the game. No thanks! (Also, I'm just grateful the returning vet wasn't Frankie. Now that would be painful!)

Edited July 11, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[Vixenstud]

19 hours ago, slasherboy said:

Who's Paisley?

Cody's adorable daughter, who was shown in his introduction in Episode 1.

[laurakaye]

16 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

For the record, I wouldn't consider what Josh did to Megan as bullying. Josh was an asshole to her and then apologized, sincerely, afterwards. Someone being upset with you and letting you know, even if they're shouting, isn't bullying.  As for Josh not knowing when to stop with Cody, I'm firmly on Josh's side here. Cody literally would not let Josh get one single word out.  Josh never even got a chance to start. Like he couldn't even get out the words "Can we talk later?" Cody didn't get his way, decided he was going to take it out on the most emotionally fragile person in the house, and then refused to even let Josh get out a single solitary word in his own defense. I probably would have thrown something at his head and been removed from the house.

Exactly this.  Because when Cody confronted Mark and asked him if he voted to keep Christmas,  I think Cody initially wanted to give Mark a piece of his mind, but instead they bro-hugged it out and Cody walked away.  With Josh, not only would Cody not let him talk, but Cody had a tense, jaw-clenching thing going on that I personally found pretty scary.  Cody's overall demeanor so far has been of a tightly-coiled spring, but that doesn't give him the right to tell someone that they can't speak in their own defense.

[Gummo]

The only reason I have little to no sympathy for Josh is because blowing up at someone, then coming back later to beg for forgiveness seems to be his pattern -- and it's very self-serving, passive aggressive behavior. You don't get to unload all over someone, then expect THEM to comfort YOU (as he did with Megan). I have no respect for that kind of behavior, it's emotional manipulation of the worst kind (whether it's conscious or not).

And I don't like that Josh always has to have the last word. Was Cody rude with his "not one word" shit? Of course he was. But Josh should have just turned around and walked out at that point. Whatever I think of Cody, he isn't obligated to listen to Josh if he doesn't want to and Josh trying to force his apology/confession/whatever on Cody was almost as shitty as Cody's verbal takedown of Josh.

They're both really objectionable characters, just in different ways.

[ProfCrash]

On Megan and Cody and their military experience. I have no idea how well they performed in the military so I won't comment on their skills but the specific skills that they relied on in the military do not naturally translate to a public/private sector job or playing Big Brother. The interrogation of a low level Taliban/ Al Qaeda/ ISIS follower who has been captured and is in prison is totally different then dealing with Josh. It is nice to think that the skills taught to our military members translate easily to non-military work but that is not always the case. I am sure that Megan discussed her military background in the diary room because she was asked to by Production and not because she thought that it was going to translate all that well.

Bottom line up front: I don't like how Cody is behaving and a fair amount of what he says but I am not ready to write him off as a human being. I have shared an office space with Cody like individuals who I like as people even though I think that some of their social ideas are stuck 150 years in the past. I don't agree with their attitudes and beliefs but I respect that they were willing to put themselves on the line to allow me to tell them that their attitude is wrong and maybe, just maybe, they should simply let people live how they want to live and not worry about who they love or if they choose to see themselves as the opposite gender.

Cody fits the profile of the stereotypical Marine infantry man. I would guess that he did very well in the Marines and is very comfortable in that environment but that does not easily translate to Big Brother. Let's be real, there is a reason why there is a large problem with suicide and depression in the ranks of the military, especially in people who have left the military. It is a very different world with very different expectations and a very different sense of community. The transition from active enlistment to inactive or reserves is challenging. This is even more true for Marines because the type of person who joins the Marines is different then the type of person who joins the Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. A number of retired Marines I work with will flat out tell you that they joined because they wanted to kill our countries enemies. They were excited to fight. That whole run to the sounds of gunfire thing is not BS.

I would actually argue that Big Brother is the wrong place for both Cody and Megan. It does not play to their skill set or their mentality. The random nature of events, the shifting alliances, the shifting social structure, and the lack of someone telling you what you should be doing is going to be hard for them to handle. They are both relatively recently out of the military. They have a very different experience in life then everyone else in the house and are going to respond in a very different manner.

What Cody said to Josh was wrong on a number of levels. It was mean and the implication that Josh was acting like a "girl" was a negative thing was wrong. Josh could have avoided it by walking away when Cody rather pointedly told Josh to be quite and leave him alone. Josh could have left and said "If you cool down and want to talk, I am willing to do so." That is pretty much what Josh said to Megan in the kitchen, Josh started to walk away, and Megan said she was fine talking to him. Josh choose to stay in the Have Not Room and press then issue with Cody and Jessica.

Josh is responsible for a lot of his problems in the house. His social skills are just as lacking as Cody's. Cody seems to be clued into the fact that his cold face and brusque attitude can be a problem while Josh is clueless. Josh unloads on Megan, twice, and then realizes he screwed up and goes to apologize. Good for him for apologizing but neither one of his explosions were justified. He could have said "I heard your comment about targeting strong men and I took that as you were going to target me because I am a strong male." Instead he yelled about her being a snake and he didn't like her and she was an awful person.

Cody is cool with Mark (personal trainer) because Mark approached Cody and said he changed his vote and why. He was intentionally upfront with what he was doing because he knew that Cody would understand that. Josh was not as upfront and didn't say anything until after the HOH and when Cody was flat out pissed by the house vote, clear favoring of Paul, and then Paul winning HOH. Mark fessed up right away and was straight forward. Josh didn't and then waffled and pressed the issue when Cody told Josh to leave him alone.

I suspect that Cody will understand Kevin's flop and his lie in time, because it is part of the game. Kevin knew that Cody was ready to believe that Ramses would flip and played on that. Ramses read Cody's anger correctly, tried to converse with Cody and left when it was clear that Cody was not willing to listen to him. Cody was wrong but Ramses understood that there was nothing to be gained by forcing the conversation.

Cody is not someone I would spend a ton of time with. I don't share his views and I think he is a prejudiced asshole. I don't think he is fully at fault for what happened with Josh and I don't think Josh is a victim of anything here. Josh could have walked away but choose to continue to engage in a conversation that was not welcome. Cody could have handled it better but nothing in the house indicated that he was going to handle it well. Mark, Kevin and Ramses all read Cody properly and handled their conversations in a way that made sense. Josh didn't. It was a bad scene but one that could have been avoided if Josh had left the room when Cody told him to stop talking.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Somebody's going to need to explain to me like I'm stupid why Paul initially picked two people from "his" side of the house as pawns as opposed to -- as Mensa candidates Mark and Elena pointed out -- two people who aren't really on his side. I guess maybe he didn't want to make enemies, but he certainly didn't make more friends.

Putting up two pawns in your own alliance increases the chances of you winning and controlling the veto. That leaves just three wildcard players, and a 50-50 chance someone on your side will win and then use the Veto so Cody can be back-doored. Plus Matt and Raven were strong competitors, in Paul's mind. If he put up two weak players there's less chance his side wins Veto. He wants two people playing for him, not against him.

Quote

A mental health "screening"  can be as simple as :   Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder or taken psych meds?   Do you feel depressed most of the time? Do you hear voices? Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?  Do you have thoughts that others are out to get you? 

And if you answered "yes" to all five questions,  you're hired!

Seriously, though - a guy who went through the audition process for Big Brother and made it all the way to the final round blogged about the experience and said at no time was there any semblance of any mental health evaluation or screening. It was just all auditioning, like for any TV show.

For some reason, people took what Mark Burnett said about casting Season 1 of Survivor and assumed it was a.) true and b.) true for all CBS reality shows. In actual fact, no one has ever claimed that contestants on Big Brother go through any kind of psych screening. That's all on Mark Burnett.

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

I thought it was some veto thing too, not silly costumes!

Oh, thank goodness I'm not alone. But yea, what a stupid "punishment" compared to Ramsey's. 

 

20 hours ago, LadyJaney said:

Jessica is your classic case "mean Girl".  Like Regina George is in the BB House.

Except Regina George was way cuter, and actually somewhat sharp. 

 

18 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Shallow note, I thought Raven looked great with her hair up normally and not in the dumb buns.

I was amazed how much cuter she looked when she wasn't trying to be a 5-year-old anime character. 

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Gummo said:

The only reason I have little to no sympathy for Josh is because blowing up at someone, then coming back later to beg for forgiveness seems to be his pattern -- and it's very self-serving, passive aggressive behavior. You don't get to unload all over someone, then expect THEM to comfort YOU (as he did with Megan). I have no respect for that kind of behavior, it's emotional manipulation of the worst kind (whether it's conscious or not).

And I don't like that Josh always has to have the last word. Was Cody rude with his "not one word" shit? Of course he was. But Josh should have just turned around and walked out at that point. Whatever I think of Cody, he isn't obligated to listen to Josh if he doesn't want to and Josh trying to force his apology/confession/whatever on Cody was almost as shitty as Cody's verbal takedown of Josh.

They're both really objectionable characters, just in different ways.

Agreed, they're both assholes in their own unique inimitable ways.  :)

 

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

On Megan and Cody and their military experience. I have no idea how well they performed in the military so I won't comment on their skills but the specific skills that they relied on in the military do not naturally translate to a public/private sector job or playing Big Brother. The interrogation of a low level Taliban/ Al Qaeda/ ISIS follower who has been captured and is in prison is totally different then dealing with Josh. It is nice to think that the skills taught to our military members translate easily to non-military work but that is not always the case. I am sure that Megan discussed her military background in the diary room because she was asked to by Production and not because she thought that it was going to translate all that well.

No argument there.  Too bad, actually; the show would've been hella more exciting if a Megan waterboarding of Cody had been an option.  :D

 

Quote

Cody fits the profile of the stereotypical Marine infantry man. I would guess that he did very well in the Marines and is very comfortable in that environment but that does not easily translate to Big Brother. Let's be real, there is a reason why there is a large problem with suicide and depression in the ranks of the military, especially in people who have left the military. It is a very different world with very different expectations and a very different sense of community. The transition from active enlistment to inactive or reserves is challenging. This is even more true for Marines because the type of person who joins the Marines is different then the type of person who joins the Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. A number of retired Marines I work with will flat out tell you that they joined because they wanted to kill our countries enemies. They were excited to fight. That whole run to the sounds of gunfire thing is not BS.

I agree Cody fits the Marine stereotype - but that stereotype doesn't define the reality.  My best friend is a Marine (there's no such thing as a "former Marine" or an "ex-Marine" - just ask them) I first met when he hired on with my agency straight out of an active forward unit in Desert Storm, and guess what?  My friend was (and still is) jarhead to the core of the Corps - but he was NOT a humorless raging Mean Girl douchebag, then or now.  

In any event: while I certainly appreciate and am grateful for a person's past military service, in no way do I entertain the notion that simply donning a uniform automatically stops an asshole from being an asshole.  Quite frequently, it has the opposite effect - and that observation is based on multiple personal experiences with both friends and family.  Just as is my observation that many soldiers who do experience genuine PTSD go out of their way to avoid inflicting their stress and associated altered behavior upon others, often to their own detriment.  So no, I'm disinclined to automatically accept past service as a blank check to excuse shitty behavior.

 

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Putting up two pawns in your own alliance increases the chances of you winning and controlling the veto. That leaves just three wildcard players, and a 50-50 chance someone on your side will win and then use the Veto so Cody can be back-doored. Plus Matt and Raven were strong competitors, in Paul's mind. If he put up two weak players there's less chance his side wins Veto. He wants two people playing for him, not against him.

I agree, this is exactly what was on Paul's mind - which is also exactly why I put Paul firmly on the weak-strategist list.  Paul can conceive a strategy on his own, sure, which is a plus.  A BIG minus which IMHO outweighs that plus, though, is Paul lacks the ability to objectively evaluate his own strategies.  Paul gets his "great ideas" and then immediately runs with them thinking only of the pros of his notion, with scant or no consideration for the cons.  

This was a perfect example. Paul's idea to put two of his own allies OTB presented exactly one check on the pro list: at least 50% of the PoV players were guaranteed to be playing in accordance with his Operation BD Cody.  But how does that weigh against the cons?

1. What about the other 50%?  Suppose for example the other three PoV players chosen had been Cody / Jessica / Jason, one of them won PoV, and chose not to use it.  Paul has just guaranteed Matt would walk out the door; (a)not only will his alliance lose a member, but (b)his group will be down three votes (Paul / Matt / Raven) so they probably won't even be able to steer the vote to eliminate the weaker of the two.
2. This strategy totally fails to take game twists into account.  Remember: right up until the start of the Block nomination ceremony nobody else in the House had any notion of the true nature of Ramses' curse, which (a)skews Paul's alliance-guaranteed PoV player strategy to below 50%, and (b)presented the possibility of a PoV use for which Paul would NOT be able to name a BD replacement.  
3. Also, the second DoT Temptation had not yet even awarded before the nom ceremony.  What would it do to Paul's strategy if the RoR had been bestowed onto a member of the opposition - like, say, Cody?

Right there just off the top of my head are five totally valid cons (1a, 1b, 2a, 2b, and 3) to Paul's one pro - yet Paul never considered these and proceeded to try to bull his boneheaded strategy through, until the pushback from his alliance grew too great.  Which is one example of why I don't consider Paul to be anywhere near a great strategist.

Good thing for Paul (and Matt, and Raven) they talked him out of it; if Ramses had been five seconds faster in the PoV comp, Paul's glorious plan would have gone straight down the shitter. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nashville
Missed a response.

[Rachel RSL]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

 Josh could have left and said "If you cool down and want to talk, I am willing to do so."

That's literally what Josh was trying to do but Cody wouldn't even let him get those words out.

[PreBabylonia]

5 hours ago, CertainJewel said:

Lurker here. I wanted to weigh in on the bulling of Josh. He wasn't bullied in my opinion by Cody and Jess. They clearly told him not to talk to them but he would NOT stop. When someone says they bullied him they water down actual bullying. Josh bullied Megan. Bulling is when you target someone for no obvious reason and begin to harass them for personal things like there looks, where they came from etc. Harassing to the point where you put the person in a position of cringing at the sight of you and others. Please don't water down this as bullying. It is an awful thing and should be stopped when there is actual bullying happening. 

I'm also beyond pissed that it is obvious that Paul is their golden boy. I'll probably skip next season if he wins. 

Paul isn't "their golden boy." he's #Our Boy! heh heh

I tend to agree. Josh clearly bullied Meghan, and everyone else (especially Jessica, Paul and Alex) joined in. The show didn't address it, but the websites were full of the background story, that she had been sexually assaulted while in the military, and suffered PTSD. She said that everyone yelling at her, and especially the alpha males, brought back the symptoms. Or that's what she said, anyway. The show certainly didn't portray it that way.

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

On Megan and Cody and their military experience. I have no idea how well they performed in the military so I won't comment on their skills but the specific skills that they relied on in the military do not naturally translate to a public/private sector job or playing Big Brother. The interrogation of a low level Taliban/ Al Qaeda/ ISIS follower who has been captured and is in prison is totally different then dealing with Josh. It is nice to think that the skills taught to our military members translate easily to non-military work but that is not always the case. I am sure that Megan discussed her military background in the diary room because she was asked to by Production and not because she thought that it was going to translate all that well.

 

Cody fits the profile of the stereotypical Marine infantry man. I would guess that he did very well in the Marines and is very comfortable in that environment but that does not easily translate to Big Brother. Let's be real, there is a reason why there is a large problem with suicide and depression in the ranks of the military, especially in people who have left the military. It is a very different world with very different expectations and a very different sense of community. The transition from active enlistment to inactive or reserves is challenging. This is even more true for Marines because the type of person who joins the Marines is different then the type of person who joins the Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. A number of retired Marines I work with will flat out tell you that they joined because they wanted to kill our countries enemies. They were excited to fight. That whole run to the sounds of gunfire thing is not BS.

I would actually argue that Big Brother is the wrong place for both Cody and Megan. It does not play to their skill set or their mentality. The random nature of events, the shifting alliances, the shifting social structure, and the lack of someone telling you what you should be doing is going to be hard for them to handle. They are both relatively recently out of the military. They have a very different experience in life then everyone else in the house and are going to respond in a very different manner.

What Cody said to Josh was wrong on a number of levels. It was mean and the implication that Josh was acting like a "girl" was a negative thing was wrong. Josh could have avoided it by walking away when Cody rather pointedly told Josh to be quite and leave him alone. Josh could have left and said "If you cool down and want to talk, I am willing to do so." That is pretty much what Josh said to Megan in the kitchen, Josh started to walk away, and Megan said she was fine talking to him. Josh choose to stay in the Have Not Room and press then issue with Cody and Jessica.

Cody is not someone I would spend a ton of time with. I don't share his views and I think he is a prejudiced asshole. I don't think he is fully at fault for what happened with Josh and I don't think Josh is a victim of anything here. Josh could have walked away but choose to continue to engage in a conversation that was not welcome. Cody could have handled it better but nothing in the house indicated that he was going to handle it well. Mark, Kevin and Ramses all read Cody properly and handled their conversations in a way that made sense. Josh didn't. It was a bad scene but one that could have been avoided if Josh had left the room when Cody told him to stop talking.

That's an interesting point of view. I don't have much experience with anyone having served in the military at any level, but it makes sense to me. I must admit I was one of those that was shocked that anyone that had served as a military interrogator wouldn't excel at manipulation and stay calm under pressure and stay out of the drama. I think I was confusing it with how the more experienced homicide detectives extract confessions in "the box"(* Andre Braugher - Homicide)

For a masterful peek at how an expert controls the situation, I recommend watching Detective Sergeant Jim Smyth of the Ontario Police's Behavioural Sciences Unit interrogate Russell Williams (perhaps Canada's most infamous rapist murderer - he's been described as more of a psychopath than Paul Bernardo). It's only a short YouTube video and completely fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsLbDzkIy3A

 

Anyway, that's what i was expecting from Meghan. A little disappointing, to say the least. I hope she won't suffer from longterm damage as a result of appearing on the show. Poor woman. She should never have been cast. I have no idea why she thought it would be a good experience either.

The only point I disagree with in your thoughtful post, is that Josh could have walked away. I was stunned that he actually came across as calm and reasonable. He DID try to say that he would be available if they would like to discuss it with him later, and told them that he liked and respected him, but they certainly did not respond in kind. I didn't like Josh from the get go but these two actually made him sympathetic. I do think he has some issues, not necessarily autism, but some kind of behavioural issues and again, he should not have been cast on this show, Probably traumatised for life.

[slasherboy]

18 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If you had a little tomato paste, you probably could have put it back together.

Snort!  (and tomato seeds shoot out my nose)

[ProfCrash]

16 hours ago, PreBabylonia said:

I don't have much experience with anyone having served in the military at any level, but it makes sense to me. I must admit I was one of those that was shocked that anyone that had served as a military interrogator wouldn't excel at manipulation and stay calm under pressure and stay out of the drama. I think I was confusing it with how the more experienced homicide detectives extract confessions in "the box"(* Andre Braugher - Homicide)

Meghan is in her mid 20's right? I have not memorized their ages. If she joined when she was 18, she served for maybe 6 years. She probably spent 6 months to a year in basic training and then schools to prepare her for her job. A homicide Detective has a certain amount of seniority before you can move into that role. And they have to met certain educational requirements and pass a test. I have no idea how many years you have to serve on the force before you are in a position to be promoted to detective but I am guessing it is at least 5, probably more. Pure guess. The few sites I looked at recommended an Associates or a Bachelors in criminal forensics for the job.  The folks you are thinking about are people with a good amount of seniority. You don't hand the hard cases off to the rookie on the team. They shadow you for a good amount of time to learn the job and are given responsibilities over time. Meghan would have been dealing with low level folks who probably were not the most devoted to the cause. It might even be that she worked in a prison and occasionally asked prisoners a few questions. And we don't even know how long she served in that capacity because she could have had other jobs in the military.

Cody matches many stereotypical Marines that I know. I also know others who are far more open minded. But a young man who served two tours in a war zone in the branch of the Military that is most active, probably spent a lot of time with young men who a lot like him in an environment that reinforces stereotypical, testosterone induced behavior. To expect that he would return from those experiences and be a Progressive is a bit unrealistic. I don't agree with him on pretty much anything but I don't have to. I think he is shocked that he is not doing better in the game and he doesn't understand why his moves last week caused so many issues. He is used to being with likeminded individuals, or at least individuals who are willing to follow the orders of the person in charge. He is not used to being with people who are all over the place politically, socially and who are not interested in following the very specific orders that they are given.

Cody is not the only one. Paul is pissed because Cody did not do what Paul wanted Cody to do. If you don't think Paul isn't expecting people to fall into line and do what he wants them to do, you are crazy. He goes about it in a different way but he has the same expectation as Cody. Paul understands that he has to listen to the others and keep them informed. Mark's comment that he likes Paul after Paul has agreed that he needs to change the pawns is a perfect example of that. Paul gets that the others are not Marines who are going to follow the designated leader. Cody doesn't understand that, probably because Cody is used to following orders. It is a different world and the deviations from what he is used to are problematic. He spent 12 weeks in an environment where he could not use the word "I" and referred to himself as "This recruit" and then a few years in theater were you better follow orders because bad things are more likely to happen if you don't.

I am not trying to say that Cody is a great person who is getting a bad edit. I don't understand why people get so worked up about other people lifestyles but that is me. I think he is getting a fair edit and he looks like an asshole. But I think there are layers to him that most people are not thinking about that helps to explain why he reacts and responds the way he does. Just as I think there are reasons for Meghan's behavior.

I rewatched the episode last night, at home and not on a crappy computer at work. (I listen at work for the most part) Jessica was the one who made the comments about Cody being a girl and most of the really nasty stuff, not Cody. I was a bit surprised by that. I think that Jessica might be more of the issue then Cody. Cody tried to get Josh to leave, he told Josh several times he did not want to talk to him and asked him just to go. Jessica is the one who starts the attack after Cody asks why Josh wouldn't just leave.

Josh did not handle the situation poorly, but he could have, and should have, left after the second time Cody told him they didn't want to talk.

Josh is also the one who flipped out in the kitchen. Cody asked Josh how he voted and Josh flipped out and told Cody not to grill him. Since when did asking one question turn into grilling someone. Cody said "I thought so" and walked away. Josh yelled at Cody and then followed Cody. Jason and Kevin tried to get in the way and Cody walked away and went up stairs. So Josh's second go around follows Josh's normal pattern. Explode for no good reason, get in peoples faces, have others intercede and then decide to go an apologize.  

[Drogo]

What if Paul had nominated Ramses and Alex instead of Alex and Josh?  Would there just be the two nominees?  

[ProfCrash]

I think that Ramses had to interrupt the proceedings and put himself up before Paul nominated anyone to prevent the possibility of Paul nominating Ramses. I think if Paul had nominated Ramses then Ramses would still have the curse and would have to nominate himself at some point if he had survived.

[Drogo]

Just now, ProfCrash said:

I think that Ramses had to interrupt the proceedings and put himself up before Paul nominated anyone to prevent the possibility of Paul nominating Ramses. I think if Paul had nominated Ramses then Ramses would still have the curse and would have to nominate himself at some point if he had survived.

That's what I would think, but at the nominations ceremony the nominees' "Keys" are already "In the Block" and Paul just turns them to make them appear on the screen.  Would they have let him go back to the HOH room to get a new second Key?  (Useless Thing I Wonder About #22.)

Your second point makes sense; he could be forced to hold onto it.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Drogo

[ProfCrash]

Just now, Drogo said:

That's what I would think, but at the nominations ceremony the nominees' "Keys" are already "In the Block" and Paul just turns them to make them appear on the screen.  Would they have let him go back to the HOH room to get a new second Key?  (Useless Thing I Wonder About #22.)

I thought of that as well. I am guessing that he would have to have a second ceremony because Paul went straight into the ceremony. Paul didn't seem to be surprised that Ramses interrupted him so maybe Ramses was told he had to tell Paul he was going to be dealing with his curse and what it was so the situation would be avoided.