Seasons 1 and 2 Discussion

[Ailianna]

On 5/25/2018 at 12:04 AM, stealinghome said:

Why is Nadia being alive a problem for Villanelle? Like, what, she’s going to tell someone in Russia that Villanelle is alive, and Russia will start a massive international manhunt for one ex-con who they think is alive because her bitter ex says so? Maybe this will be explained next episode but I’m not really sure why Nadia is a loose end that MUST be eliminated.

The only people who would have snatched Nadia up are their employers--to whom Villanelle completely lied about what happened, who went rogue, and who killed who.  Nadia can give the real version of what happened.  Villanelle is trying to get back to her nice life of killing and not being over supervised, and Nadia telling the truth will definitely put a crimp in that.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Carolyn carrying cheesy puffs with her whenever she flies makes me unreasonably happy. 

I agree there is only one flavor of cheesy puffs (original Cheetos or GTFO), but do Flamin' Hot Cheetos not exist in Britain?

[atlantaloves]

Well I love love love this show, and sometimes I feel I am the only person in Atlanta watching it. I can't get anybody I know to join me.  So I will see you all right here next year! Great ending! ?

[Ailianna]

On 5/14/2018 at 7:10 PM, catrice2 said:

we are almost finished and don't know who Anna is ( I am assuming she is her child?) and how she plays into Oksana's motivation. 

They told us who Anna is--the widow of the man Villanelle castrated to get sent to prison in the first place.

[dkb]

Can't wait to see what happens next season. I was totally surprised when Eve stabbed Villenille. Want to see more Kenny and Elena next season for sure!

[humbleopinion]

Hated Villanelle's short coat, it looks like it was made from old bath mats...Plus the color was all wrong...no color pop.

The episode better not be a dream...and if they pull out a snow globe...I'm flipping a table...

[Clanstarling]

Just now, humbleopinion said:

Hated Villanelle's short coat, it looks like it was made from old bath mats...Plus the color was all wrong...no color pop.

The episode better not be a dream...and if they pull out a snow globe...I'm flipping a table...

Damn St. Elsewhere and Dallas (and Roseanne - original flavor) for making us distrust show runners.

[stealinghome]

3 hours ago, Ailianna said:

The only people who would have snatched Nadia up are their employers--to whom Villanelle completely lied about what happened, who went rogue, and who killed who.  Nadia can give the real version of what happened.  Villanelle is trying to get back to her nice life of killing and not being over supervised, and Nadia telling the truth will definitely put a crimp in that.

But Konstantin clearly already had surmised that Villanelle had turned on Nadia and the dumb dude, so it’s not like that was somehow hidden. Plus if we assume their mutual employer picked her up, why would anyone think Nadia *hadn’t* already told the truth? (Or that their employer was smart enough to figure it out, frankly.) Like, why would Nadia hold out? The only person that protects is Villanelle, who just screwed her over. And why would they bring Nadia all the way back to Russia to plop her in jail if they’re some big global organization? Why wouldn’t they just get Nadia’s information and kill her straightaway, if they wanted her dead so bad? Why ship her to Russia to then dispatch Villanelle to kill her?

After watching the rest of the season, I’ve decided that

 

as soon as she was picked up, Nadia told their mutual employer what went down and they decided to ship her off to Russia entirely as bait to get Villanelle back in that prison, to teach V a lesson/get V under control/get V off the playing board for a while. It’s the explanation that best makes sense of what is imo otherwise an unnecessarily elaborate scheme to get rid of Nadia.

Edited May 28, 2018 by stealinghome

[stealinghome]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This is great. I think Villanelle fell for it both times was because she has a genuine connection with both Konstantin and Eve that she never has with her victims. We've seen that Eve craves love and acceptance, and K and Eve give that to her in different ways. Villanelle knows them in a way she doesn't her victims, so she can't stay quite disconnected enough from them.

Agreed, and I think it’s important that both Eve and Konstantin see and accept Villanelle for exactly who she is. Villanelle clearly had something of a connection with Anna in the past, but I think she cut that off when Anna flipped out on her for killing her husband (for which Anna was totally justified, mind). Villanelle’s “I don’t love you anymore” pointed to that, I think, as did her general avoidance of Anna—she showed her true self to someone she thought she had a connection with and got utterly and completely rejected, and for someone who clearly does desire acceptance and affection, that had to have suuuuuucked.

Whereas Konstantin straight-up told her that he cares for her because she’s a psychopath—it’s part of what makes her special in his eyes—and Eve is obsessed with her for the same reason. They might reject her for other reasons, but “is a psychopath” won’t be one of them.

[humbleopinion]

Konstantin has a thing for difficult, annoying, whip smart women...it delights him...

[galax-arena]

I definitely liked Irina a lot more than I was expecting. The banter between her and V was hilarious. I loved that Konstantin was freaking out that V would kill her because "she's so annoying." 

Quote

I call foul on the idea that Villanelle could take more than like 10 steps without collapsing, bleeding like that, though. 

Eve's final line "where??" did crack me up. Bih, you just stabbed her in the gut. She's probably still dragging her ass out of the apartment building. 

(Feel free to skip the next paragraph if you've never watched Elementary)

In an earlier ep thread, I mentioned how Eve & Villanelle remind me of Joan & Moriarty on Elementary. I'm definitely not the only person to feel that way, either. But even though I shipped Joan & Moriarty - look, you don't paint a giant-ass portrait of someone unless you have a big gay crush on them, amirite? - I never actually wanted to see anything explicit happen between them because I felt like it would have ruined Joan's character... Joan has always been so together and unabashedly good. It would have made zero sense for her character to essentially go "fuck it" and hook up with Moriarty; her sense of right/wrong (not to mention her loyalty to Sherlock) was too strong. By contrast, Eve... well, she isn't evil, but there's a sort of darkness/messiness within her that Joan never had. Which is why I could actually see something happen between Eve and Villanelle down the road without ruining her character or the writing. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by galax-arena

[politichick]

19 hours ago, picklesprite said:

I only discovered this show on Saturday, so it was very thoughtful of them to pull up to my curb with the finale just as I was ready for it. I hopped in, and wow, what a ride the whole season has been. It's inevitable that Eve and Oksana team up on something next season, yes? That'll be great. I do miss Bill, though, and I hope Konstantin's not also dead. I know who I think they'll kill off next season, but I won't speculate here.

Sandra Oh is wonderful, but my god, Jodie comer is amazing!

Welcome aboard! I love this show and have been trying to get all of my friends to watch it. It is smart, sexy, shocking and not to be missed. I still miss Bill, too, and didn't watch for a couple of weeks because I hated that plot twist so much. I also hope that Konstantin is not dead, either, and hope to see his little girl again. Next season ought to be pretty interesting and I'm so pleased it has been renewed. It might be our last or penultimate season as the Brits don't do 20 seasons of series like Americans do.

[Brookside]

Anyone who has enjoyed this might also like Broadchurch, with David Tennant and Olivia Colman, who play police detectives in a small southwest English town.  Eight episodes for each series.  Compelling writing and acting.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Konstantin has a thing for difficult, annoying, whip smart women...it delights him...

And he's raising one!

[CarpeFelis]

Wish they’d make an entire series of Villanelle training Irina to be an assassin! They were hilarious together.

[slf]

"Don't pull it out!"
*Eve pulls the knife out*
"WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!"

Heh. I'm glad Eve stabbed Villanelle. She definitely has issues - her obsession with female serial killers, digging a blade into her own flesh, etc. - but she shouldn't yet be at a place where she can act on her complicated feelings for Villanelle. 

I'm pretty much taking it as canon that this show is about Eve's descent. Into what, tho, I couldn't say.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

5 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Konstantin has a thing for difficult, annoying, whip smart women...it delights him...

And he's raising one!

I'm kind of curious about his wife. True, he hasn't seemed to spare her a passing thought - but look at the daughter she raised.

One thing that delights me about this show is just how fully formed even mostly minor characters seem to be almost from the get-go. I could list them - but then it would be almost every supporting character that had more than a single line. That's brilliant writing and acting, imo.

[stealinghome]

47 minutes ago, slf said:

"Don't pull it out!"
*Eve pulls the knife out*
"WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!"

Only to be rivaled by Eve’s “I’m coming out! I’m coming out!” I see what you did there, Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Hee!

[Valny]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:51 PM, picklesprite said:

 

Sandra Oh is wonderful, but my god, Jodie comer is amazing!

Yes, she is quite amazing and  really hope they both get nominated for this year's Emmy or any awards in 2019 like the Golden Globes or SAG.

The site Gold Derby said if they did, it would be the first time in 16 years that two co-stars got nominated. They also think they'd be a long shot, but hey, I can hope.

[Cigale]

Really love this show!  But what bugs me is that nobody in Paris speaks French for real, they all have an English accent!  They couldn’t bothered to find French actors!  The only one believable was Carla, the woman killed with ‘perfume”.  Cause she is French.

[Mumbles]

13 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I loved Konstantin's daughter, and am not generally a fan of children in shows. Especially mini-adults.

ITA about smart-aleck kids in tv shows and I get that people liked her but I fell on the other side of the line on the character. Classic YMMV. I was hoping for some sort of “Ransom of Red Chief” twist where she annoyed Villanelle so much she just gave her up.

I’m on board for the next season but wish they had given us some more about the Twelve and if, and how deep, Carolyn is involved.

[stealinghome]

21 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

I’m on board for the next season but wish they had given us some more about the Twelve and if, and how deep, Carolyn is involved.

I agree with this. It’s one of those things—I get that it’s a very delicate balance, and that the core of this show is clearly always going to be the Eve/Villanelle interpersonal dynamic (and to a lesser extent their relationships with their respective supporting casts). This is always going to be a show that puts character over plot, and it should. At the same time, it felt really weird that the “serialized”/overarching spy narrative got totally lost in the season finale. There was a lot of running around and guns being waved, but pretty much zip narrative progress. I think a wee bit more plot would help!

[taragel]

I loved the ending (I was a bit worried it was going to end with them both laying back on the bed and saying they were tired, and that would have been a little unsatisfying and anticlimactic) and thought it was great that the "twist" was that Eve isn't just obsessed (perhaps romantically, perhaps not) with Villanelle, so much as her wanting to know what it feels like to take a life. That's why she would stab her and not shoot her--it's more intimate. I also don't think the answers of who the Twelve are or what they are after would be nearly as interesting as this relationship/interplay. It would be kind of funny if they never tell us who they are, I think. Just another way to subvert the usual crime drama expectations.

The old lady spying on Villanelle was also a nice and unex.ected reveal.  I like that for as quick and brutal as she can be, Villanelle does get outsmarted sometimes too--she's not superhuman.

I too wondered about Eve saying her marriage to Nico had been sacrificed though. I was also surprised we didn't get to see Elena after they left London and they didn't find a way to incorporate her.

[humbleopinion]

Anyone else wondering what Villanelle and Irina were eating on the park bench?

Some kind of meat sandwich...looked delicious...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Villanelle: SHUT UP! Or I'll blow your tiny head to pieces!
Irina: My dad is going to kill you in the face!
Villanelle: No, I'm going to kill your dad in the face.
Irina: No! Why?
Villanelle: Because he's an asshole.
Irina: You can't say shit about my dad!
Villanelle: I can!
Irina: You can't!
Villanelle: WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?
Irina: I will kill you!
Villanelle: I will kill you!
Irina: You re going to die!
Villanelle: What will make you stop shouting?
Irina: Food!
Villanelle: What?
Irina: I'm hungry.
Villanelle: Oh. Okay.

Villanelle: Stick out your thumb. Look vulnerable.
I AM vulnerable.

Eve: Gawd, it make me rage how efficient things are when you're a dick to people.

Kenny: Can we at least knock once in case she's naked or something?

Eve: Why is [Konstantin] in here?
Carolyn: Business.
Eve: Oh, so he sells hairdryers now?

Irina: Are you a bad person?
Villanelle: Yup.
Irina: Have you kidnapped me?
Villanelle: Yup.
Irina: Are you a pedophile?
Villanelle: No.
Irina: Okay, good. Why don't you speak Russian?
Villanelle: I don't like it.

Irina: Is my dad bad?
Villanelle: Yes, he is the worst. Are you?
Irina: I don't know yet. Is it hard to be bad?
Villanelle: Not if you practice.

Konstantin: I need to find my daughter. She's going to drive that woman crazy.
Kenny: Is she really annoying?
Konstantin: She's so annoying. She's amazing but so annoying.

Eve: I'm not going to shake your hand.
Konstantin: Don't be proud.
Eve: I'm not. I'm hygienic.

Villanelle: [Irina] is really annoying.
Konstantin: I know.
Villanelle: I like her.
Konstantin: Me too.

Eve: I have lost two jobs, a husband, and a best friend because of you.
Villanelle: Yeah, but you got some really nice clothes out of it.

Eve: I think about you all the time. I think about what you're wearing and what you're doing and who you're doing it with. I think about what friends you have. I think about what you eat before you work and what shampoo you use and what happened in your family. I think about your eyes and your mouth and what you feel when you kill someone. I think about what you had for breakfast. I just want to know everything.
Villanelle: I think about you too. I mean, I masturbate about you a lot.
Eve: Okay, that's-
Villanelle: Too much?
Eve: No, that's just - I wasn't expecting that.
Villanelle: So you trashed my apartment because you like me so much?
Eve: I know it's not conventional.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I, too, am usually wary for any kind of kid character on shows like this but Irina was great. I can see why Konstantin thought Villanelle would kill Irina for being annoying. I loved their scenes together.

Loved Eve getting to do a role reversal with Villanelle - breaking into her apartment, getting information about her, etc. Villanelle really only has Konstantin in her life and she is used to having the upper hand all the time, so just the fact that Eve found her apartment at all must have been a shock.

There's no way that Konstantin is dead. I will be really surprised if he isn't back next season.

Part of me though that Carolyn was going to be petty and have Eve get stranded in Russia, so I'm glad she was able to get to Paris without a problem. Can you imagine how awkward the flight back to London was? Then again, I can totally picture Carolyn making sure not to sit next to Kenny just so she could avoid discussing any of what has happened.

[mwell345]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm kind of curious about his wife. True, he hasn't seemed to spare her a passing thought - but look at the daughter she raised.

Well, we know she's "big".  V mentioned that twice.

 

11 hours ago, Brookside said:

Anyone who has enjoyed this might also like Broadchurch, with David Tennant and Olivia Colman, who play police detectives in a small southwest English town.  Eight episodes for each series.  Compelling writing and acting.

Yes!!!! 

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

nyone else wondering what Villanelle and Irina were eating on the park bench?

Some kind of meat sandwich...looked delicious...

It looked like fast food hamburgers to me.

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I, too, am usually wary for any kind of kid character on shows like this but Irina was great. I can see why Konstantin thought Villanelle would kill Irina for being annoying. I loved their scenes together.

On the other hand, Irina was like Villanelle is a lot of ways—precocious, polyglot—and Villanelle definitely recognizes like.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Anyone else wondering what Villanelle and Irina were eating on the park bench?

Some kind of meat sandwich...looked delicious...

I thought they sounded delicious - that crunching was making me hungry!

2 hours ago, mwell345 said:

Well, we know she's "big".  V mentioned that twice.

True - but that's just a description. I'm more interested in her personality.

BTW - I don't recall if anyone's mentioned it - but the animal the old French lady was trying to mimic was a bear - my closed captioning had the spelling so I looked it up in Google Translate. Seems fitting, that Konstantin - described as a bear - would have a large woman as his wife. And his daughter wasn't exactly dainty. (not fat, just to be clear, but strongly built)

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

On the other hand, Irina was like Villanelle is a lot of ways—precocious, polyglot—and Villanelle definitely recognizes like.

Absolutely! I imagine Konstantin does too - which is why I think he does indeed love Villanelle.

[stealinghome]

Quote

On the other hand, Irina was like Villanelle is a lot of ways—precocious, polyglot—and Villanelle definitely recognizes like.

Yes, I thought they most definitely had a big sister/little sister vibe based on mutual recognition that they were similar. It was surprisingly charming! Especially the part where they both exasperatedly quoted "dad" while pulling a face: "Language is information, and information is power" or something like that. Everyone who has a sibling has had some version of that moment, ha. I also think Villanelle kind of twigged to being Irina's "big sister" and didn't hate it.

[attica]

11 hours ago, Valny said:

The site Gold Derby said if they did, it would be the first time in 16 years that two co-stars got nominated. They also think they'd be a long shot, but hey, I can hope.

The Globes tend to be a safer bet for this kind of nominee, fwiw. Emmys are still pretty US/hidebound.

[attica]

Or, you know: Schrodinger's Rapist.

[humbleopinion]

This show is so smart...when Eve opened Villanelle's wardrobes...her work wardrobe...the uniforms, the weapons, the blonde wig...then flung open her wardrobe containing her couture clothes...look... there's the iconic poofy pink dress...the whole season flashed through your brain while you were wondering a frenzied Eve would do...

[scrb]

Did they actually film in Moscow or Russia?

Or some other country?

The hotel they stayed in, especially that corridor, looks like it could have been a Soviet building back in the day, kind of looks institutional.

I guess Constantin could have a nice villa like that, with a boathouse and expansive grounds.

[dubbel zout]

Per Wiki, filming took place in Paris, Tuscany, Berlin, Romania, and various London area locations. I expect the Russia scenes were a combination of Romania, Berlin, and London, depending on what we were seeing. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by dubbel zout
missing word

[attica]

Yeah, I thought the Moscow airport looked decidedly un-Moscovian. (Not having been there, what do I know?)

[Auntie Anxiety]

Quote

I’m out too.   I thought the finale was terrible, I was bored throughout.   V has a gun to a child’s head, and Eve drops her gun, and then lets her get away - for the second time?  (I’m losing count).

I was totally underwhelmed and won’t be coming back. I get that this is supposed to be a little lighthearted, but it became much too stupid for me. 

[Sesquipedalia]

This show is so bizarre. I was really into it in the beginning, but I'm not sure I would have made it through the season if I hadn't prepaid on Amazon. I know it's supposed to be genre-defying, but that's making it hard for me to see what the point or endgame is. There are too many gun-waving stand-offs. I felt like the Anna plot was anti-climactic. I don't have the energy now, but if this were 5-10 years ago, I'd be up in arms about the tired lesbian psycho killer stereotype. I find it hard to identify with Eve because she's almost as much of a psycho as Villanelle. 

I do love how woman-centric it is, and I'm curious to find out what happens. Knowing the Brits don't drag shows out as long as Americans is also a point in its favor, so I'll probably watch Season 2 but wait until it comes out in a format I don't have to pay extra for.

[proserpina65]

Little late seeing this one, but Niko had absolutely every right to be upset.  If I were him, I'd have been gone as soon as I found out that Eve knew about Villanelle knowing where they lived.

[roughing it]

18 hours ago, slf said:

I'm pretty much taking it as canon that this show is about Eve's descent. Into what, tho, I couldn't say.

Maybe Eve will evolve into a female "Dexter" - killing the bad people.

[proserpina65]

On ‎05‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 3:35 PM, sugarbaker design said:

With the Sally Hawkins, Rupert Penry-Jones version a close second!

Have to disagree - I found that one to be terrible.

[proserpina65]

UGH, really with that stupid ending!  I just want Villanelle to be dead.  I've never found her to be that interesting, and now she has about 400 lives.

[catrice2]

I am not thrilled about watching Eve be attracted to someone who killed her friend Bill!  I get what the show is supposed to be, I am just not sure it is for me. Sometimes the dialogue is sharp and witty and sometimes it is just juvenile and seems to be thrown in for shock value, such as when Villanelle tells Eve she masturbates while thinking about her. 

I am also starting to like the supporting characters way more than the leads....Eve's unexplained relationship with her husband and her lack of concern for his safety and the safety of others is disturbing and cannot be explained away as her inexperience in the field.  It doesn't take experience to have common sense. 

Villanelle was enough, we did not need the annoying daughter. 

Is Eve really into Villanelle or just into the idea of someone being that into her?  Does Villanelle really want Eve or does she want someone who reminds her of Anna that will give her what Anna wouldn't? 

It started out great for me but I got less interested and enthused as the series went on.  Maybe next series will be better. I am curious enough to watch, but will not be happy with another season of Villanelle making great escapes. 

[humbleopinion]

Phoebe Waller-Bridge on the Graham Norton Show was in fine form...you can find clips on youtube

[Ohwell]

I missed the first few episodes, so I wasn't sure what Eve's job was supposed to be.  I'm assuming it's a detective, but why is she so clumsy, and why can't she handle a weapon?   It is not endearing and it just makes her look stupid and inept. 

All I know for sure is, I want Villanelle dead.  Painfully so.  If Eve wants to go with her, then that's fine too. 

[dubbel zout]

Eve was an analyst, so any field/weapons training she might have was at the beginning of her career, and she had no reason to stay current with any of that.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I missed the first few episodes, so I wasn't sure what Eve's job was supposed to be.  I'm assuming it's a detective, but why is she so clumsy, and why can't she handle a weapon?   It is not endearing and it just makes her look stupid and inept. 

She was a desk jockey for MI5. She got fired, but impressed Carolyn with some insight about one of Villanelle's kills, and Carolyn recruited her to head a little off-the-books team to track down Villanelle. She can't handle a weapon because she's never had to.

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Eve was an analyst, so any field/weapons training she might have was at the beginning of her career, and she had no reason to stay current with any of that.

Thanks, but what kind of analyst?  That still doesn't explain the clumsiness and ineptitude that she exhibits.

2 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

She was a desk jockey for MI5. She got fired, but impressed Carolyn with some insight about one of Villanelle's kills, and Carolyn recruited her to head a little off-the-books team to track down Villanelle. She can't handle a weapon because she's never had to.

Ok, desk jockey for MI5.  Still doesn't explain how she acts.

[Cranberry]

If you don't want to go back and watch the first few episodes, here's the character bio provided by BBC America.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Thanks, but what kind of analyst?  That still doesn't explain the clumsiness and ineptitude that she exhibits.

Ok, desk jockey for MI5.  Still doesn't explain how she acts.

As an analyst, Eve's thinking is very clear, she makes connections and arrives at conclusions speedily, and generally accurately. She is not trained (or up to snuff) when it comes to field work, because she only just got a job where she did any real field work, so she's definitely not skilled there. Not with guns, and not with interrogation (far too obvious with her questions.) On top of that, she's a mess emotionally. So even though she can come to clear conclusions, her emotions muddle up her responses.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Clanstarling