S01.E07: A Prayer for Mad Sweeney

[jcin617]

11 hours ago, BetterButter said:

"Créd as co tarlaid an cac-sa dam? Nach lór rofhulangas? 
Is lór chena, níam olc! Níam!"

"Haven't I believed enough in your bullshit? Haven't I suffered enough? Isn't that enough itself? 
I'm not evil! I'm not!"

Not that I'm looking for spoilers, but I'm curious who he is addressing;  do the gods have gods?   Fate itself?   The universe?

Edited June 12, 2017 by jcin617

[tennisgurl]

I can't say when I first heard they were turning American Gods into a TV show, that I would end up sort of shipping Laura and Mad Sweeny, but...here we are. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by tennisgurl

[car54]

I thought this episode tied up some things about Laura up very neatly--having the same actress play both Essie and Laura--no matter what happened to Essie, she still held to her belief and paid her gods with kindnesses, and after that story that Grandma Essie told the little girl, realizing that after that she didn't pass that on any more--and how Laura told us early on that she didn't believe in anything.    I also saw the parallel with Essie being "ambitious" and her ambition being the thing that put her where she ended up each time and how Laura wanted something more than just her marriage to Shadow, her casino job and her Grandma's house.    Full circle.  Nicely done, show.  

I too like the Coming to America parts of the show a lot, and I love the scenes in the funeral home--how they know before their customers call them.

I'm very sad that there is only one more episode and then a long wait for more. :(

Edited June 12, 2017 by car54

[Kierstyn]

16 hours ago, LadyJaney said:

 

Quote

So I'm guessing the old gods can transform into birds.  Mad said that he was turned into one.  Wednesday has had conversations with them, tonight Sweeney did as well.  This may somehow be their advantage over the new gods?  

There are definitely gods in this story who can turn into birds, but don't assume they all can.  But based on who Wednesday is, he has two specific birds - crows - that are part of his power.  So when Sweeney is gabbing at the crow, he was passing info back to Wednesday via that specific crow.

[Morrigan2575]

16 hours ago, Drogo said:

I actually thought Sweeney returned the coin to Laura because she needs to give it back of her own free will. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

a young man who prosephises his own death in the Vietnam War. 

He also said he could take it from her when she was dead/dead, i.e. the body wasted away that's why he was drowning her a couple of episodes back to hasten the Decom.

In any case, he didn't take the coin from her, her body broke open and released the coin, it was his free and clear. Sweeny made the choice out of guilt or compassion to give her the coin back.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Lantern7]

3 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Not that I'm looking for spoilers, but I'm curious who he is addressing;  do the gods have gods?   Fate itself?   The universe?

The Endless? Okay, probably not with this book/show, but it's fun to dream.

[starri]

22 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

The Endless? Okay, probably not with this book/show, but it's fun to dream.

Never know.  One of them did show up in the book.

[Wanderdown]

6 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I'm in the minority, because I find Laura-centric episodes tedious. I liked Emily Browning as Essie, but for a woman who's come back from the dead and is searching for her "light", Laura's just...there's no there there. 

 

Well, Laura herself is tedious, along with insufferable.  

I think with an eight episode season, this should have had more story advancement and not be filler like this episode was.

[ShannaB]

20 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

It looked like a liver to me, though it was on the small side. Maybe shrunken postmortem?

It was the triangle shaped skin from the autopsy procedure.  It fell off during the crash.  He may have put an organ back in before the coin but I only saw the skin.

Edited June 13, 2017 by ShannaB
eta

[qtpye]

On 6/11/2017 at 10:18 AM, starri said:

Any time Fionnula Flanagan shows up for anything, you know it's going to be a good thing

She is a treasure, I wish there was more of her in the episodes.

I hated this.  There is more to Irish women then stealing and fucking.  Of course, all her "good turns" was some English man finding her attractive in her "Ronald McDonald with a bad perm wig".  Many strong Irish women help build this country and they did more then flutter their eyelashes and look helpless.

 I do not love what this show does with it's female characters, except for maybe Gillian Anderson.

I felt like I was watching a lifetime movie combined with Far and Away.

[WatchrTina]

20 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

For all Mad Sweeney resents General Mills, Lucky Charms probably keeps leprechauns more relevant than they otherwise would be. 

He must REALLY hate those Leprechaun horror films.

But while the Irish in American may have stopped believing in the wee fairy folk, they never stopped celebrating St. Patrick's Day and images of Leprechauns, for good or ill, have been a part of that celebration for a long time.  Within the mythos of this story I can well imagine that Mad Sweeney owes his continued existence, in large part, to Hallmark.

Edited June 13, 2017 by WatchrTina

[jeansheridan]

5 hours ago, Wanderdown said:

Well, Laura herself is tedious, along with insufferable.  

I think with an eight episode season, this should have had more story advancement and not be filler like this episode was.

Welcome to Fuller's world.  Hannibal was just as maddening alas. 

I loved this episode because I adore Mad Sweeney.  He is kind of stealing the show from Shadow which bothers me a bit.  But that's a book lover thing.

I don't see Essie as just having sex and stealing.  She was tough and a survivor, especially after her first love betrayed her in such a cowardly way.  

But I do think a woman her time and class had few options.  If her looks can save her, then use them.  Not fair but neither was being called a thief when she wasn't.   

I guess I saw resilience.   Which Laura showed when she righted that ice cream truck and kept driving.  I loved her look of horror when she saw her open chest cavity.   I love her embarrassed "don't look!"  So human.

 

I also like Laura for sending Salim on his way.  

I think he did grab his prayer rug too.  Didn't he scrambled to pick it up before dashing to his car?

And I had no idea leprechauns were fighters/warriors.  

[Which Tyler]

8 hours ago, Kierstyn said:

There are definitely gods in this story who can turn into birds, but don't assume they all can.  But based on who Wednesday is, he has two specific birds - crows - that are part of his power.  So when Sweeney is gabbing at the crow, he was passing info back to Wednesday via that specific crow.

Huginn and Muninn are still ravens, not crows. They are Odin's spys on the world

[basil]

Quote

There is more to Irish women then stealing and fucking.  Of course, all her "good turns" was some English man finding her attractive in her "Ronald McDonald with a bad perm wig".  Many strong Irish women help build this country and they did more then flutter their eyelashes and look helpless.

I think perhaps you missed the part where she and her people prospered by running the American farm for decades after her husband passed away. Her fields and orchards were abundant, and her family did well.

Quote

I do not love what this show does with it's female characters, except for maybe Gillian Anderson.

Media? The ultra manipulative, sex-selling, violent and threatening god(ess)? Gillian Anderson is fantastic in the role, but Media is a right proper bitch on wheels. 

[TwistedandBored]

I enjoyed this episode but I really want an episode dedicated to the New Gods. I think the my favorite moment might be the face off at the jail cell and hopefully we get another one during the season finale. 

[Ravenya003]

Loved it. Definitely my favourite episode so far. And count me down as someone also surprised at vaguely shipping Laura/Mad Sweeney. That tiny smile on his face as she impatiently honks her horn at him ... gah.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Laura 2.0 has presented this tough, no-nonsense image but she let it drop when she realized that her exposed corpse and ripped apart stitches were showing. When she told Mad Sweeney not to look, it wasn't "stop looking at my boobs, you pervert!" Instead it was a vulnerability about her current state of being. Despite the fact that I have enjoyed Laura and Mad Sweeney sniping at each other, that moment was the first time that I felt an interest in their relationship going beyond that.

[jeansheridan]

The beautiful thing about Sweeney is he doesn't care about her rotting corpse.  He may actually care about her spirit and her faith.  I wonder, if Laura begins to believe in him, will he get stronger?   Because even her minor belief in him right now seems to be improving his outlook.  She seems to believe his stories.  That he was a king.  That he has walked in those boots for a long time.  That he knows a guy who might help her.  Minor faith but still.  

Shadow on the other hand seems to be resisting belief as hard as he is capable. 

[Bruinsfan]

I was kind of surprised that Essie actually had a happy life with John after he freed her from her indenture; initially I assumed that was just another scam and she'd be gone with the family silver in due haste.

[starri]

I think it was closing the loop on where she started.  She has a wealthy man with feelings for her that takes the coward's way out, she ends with a wealthy man who does right by her.

[jeansheridan]

16 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

initially I assumed that was just another scam and she'd be gone with the family silver in due haste.

Becoming a new person is one of the promises of America.  I think she refused to change the first trip over because she was sent unfairly.  The second time she had properly earned her sentence.  And learned her lesson.  

I guess it depends on if you believe people can change.  

[luna1122]

I don't have much to add to everything that has been said, but I loved this episode. I thought everything was very lyrical and beautiful, and loved the incongruity of the modern music in the unmodern times. I'd read a full length novel about Essie. I can't believe there's only one episode left.

[Athena]

On 2017-06-13 at 11:01 AM, Bruinsfan said:

I was kind of surprised that Essie actually had a happy life with John after he freed her from her indenture; initially I assumed that was just another scam and she'd be gone with the family silver in due haste.

I think she had learned her lesson and wanted to survive as well. She had children by that point so she couldn't leave as easily either. One of whom was the product of not great circumstances, but was still her child whom she carried on that horrible ship. I also got the feeling she attached a bit to John's child as well. She told Mad Sweeney that she did have good situation after escaping America the first time but ruined it. She knew when she got to America the second time that she had to try to make the best of it.

It was interesting that she was an innocent girl and she turned to thieving largely because she bought into how society saw her. After her betrayal from the young man she loved, she probably didn't trust men in general anymore which is why she ran from the ship's Captain who also seemed to love her like John did.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Angry Leprechauns And Undead Wives Make Strange Bedfellows On American Gods

Are Mad Sweeney and Laura secretly the show's lead characters?

[tennisgurl]

This really was a ridiculously beautiful episode, and things like this are a big part of the reason I'm glad this show exists. The tale of how Essie and Mad Sweeny came to America is just a lovely, memorable story, that works as an origin story for Mad Sweeny, a thematic story about loss of belief among the generations that ties into the shows main points, and is just a great story that has a solid beginning, middle, and ending. I loved seeing the life of Essie, and I REALLY loved the last scene with old Essie and Mad Sweeny. Man, Mad Sweeny was way more chill back than, wasn't he. While modern Sweeny is all angry and belligerent and cynical, old timie Sweeny seemed more wistful and sad about his followers in the New World drying up. I guess he hadn't seen his first box of Lucky Charms yet. I also really love how they used 50s style music for most of the Essie story, until the end where it it blasts all its Celtic music for all its worth. 

I also enjoyed the continued road trip of Salim, Laura, and Mad Sweeny, although it looks like Salim if off to find his boyfriend on his own now. I'll miss his sweet, lovable self contrasting with the cynic twins. I loved when he called Sweeny an "Unpleasant Creature" or something. It's probably the meanest thing he has called a person to their face in his life. 

[tennisgurl]

In a lot of ways, this episode had the best exploration so far of a major theme of the show, the tragedy of loss of culture. Not the especially nasty, imperialism kind (which I'm sure we will get to) but the more quiet kind that just happens after a few generations away from their country of origin. No matter what, Essie believed in her folk stories and her memories of Ireland, even when she was old and long gone, but to her grandkids, Ireland is just a mark on a map, and they have no connection to her stories of little people and leprechauns. It's a sad story about how culture can eventually just get either absorbed into a bigger, more mainstream culture (see Lucky Charms) or are just forgotten. I'm not saying keeping everything from the Old Days is a good thing (I don't think many people are nastalgic for a legal system that hung teenagers for minor theft) and progressive is more often than not a Good Thing, but there is something sad in families forgetting their history or folk stories, either out of a desire to fit into the mainstream, or just because the stories don't seem to fit into their new lives. 

[theatremouse]

20 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I think he did grab his prayer rug too.  Didn't he scrambled to pick it up before dashing to his car?

Mad Sweeney told him to take it when he was trying to get him to get back in the car and keep going, but when Laura "released" Salim he did not. He just got up and left. It was still on the ground when Laura and Sweeney were talking to each other after Salim left.

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:41 AM, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I'm in the minority, because I find Laura-centric episodes tedious.

I'm with you on this. Essie seemed no better than Laura imho. I did like the story about MS but it dragged because it dealt so much with Essie.

Did I hear correctly, that when Laura was reading the plaque about the white buffalo and she reads that it only lived a year that Mad Sweeney said "That's what happens when you put a god in a petting zoo."

[WatchrTina]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Did I hear correctly, that when Laura was reading the plaque about the white buffalo and she reads that it only lived a year that Mad Sweeney said "That's what happens when you put a god in a petting zoo."

Yes, that's what I heard too (and I watch with closed captions on.)  It's interesting to note that both the buffalo AND the farmer who was displaying him were killed by the lighting strike.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Did I hear correctly, that when Laura was reading the plaque about the white buffalo and she reads that it only lived a year that Mad Sweeney said "That's what happens when you put a god in a petting zoo."

You did - and I feel stupid for not noticing the buffalo in Shadow's dreams is white, too.  It was just so dark and there are big-ass flames coming out of his eyeballs, makes it tough to remember details about his hair. 

[ombre]

50 minutes ago, Drogo said:

You did - and I feel stupid for not noticing the buffalo in Shadow's dreams is white, too.  It was just so dark and there are big-ass flames coming out of his eyeballs, makes it tough to remember details about his hair. 

 I think that's light reflecting on the buffalo - all the other views of it have been dark.

This use of surfaces and light is one of my favorite parts about what has quickly become one of my favorite shows ever.  I spend a lot of time in awe of the combined work of the film, lighting, and makeup crews and how well their work interacts and how eloquently it supports the rest of what's going on.  I started noticing it in the long scene between Shadow (skin reflecting the light off that uncomfortable end-of-a-long-and-stressful-day-and-you're-throwing-me-ANOTHER-curveball? film of grease) and Laura (matte with spray tan) and have been admiring it ever since.  In a story that is so deeply concerned with the interaction of the superficial and the profound, it is a great touch.  And it does a great job of showing how that which is dark can seem light and vice versa.

[Pallas]

On 6/12/2017 at 1:53 PM, jcin617 said:

Not that I'm looking for spoilers, but I'm curious who he is addressing;  do the gods have gods?   Fate itself?   The universe?

A great point. Another translation of the Irish makes it seem Sweeney's not addressing any particular deity or entity, but as you suggest -- fate itself. From the second entry on the thread:  "VERY literally: 'What-is-it from-which this shit has befallen to me? Is it not a sufficiency I have suffered/endured? It's a sufficiency besides. I'm not evil! I'm not!' "

I love the poster's wondering who the hell among the other 99 medieval Irish experts provided the text for the show. 

[Juliegirlj]

I adored this episode!!!! I am so thankful that the original actor chosen to play Mad Sweeney had to back out! Pablo is perfect! 

So, Wednesday had Shadow's wife killed ( kinda twice). He must really need Shadow, although I don't get the exact reason yet ( Shadow is a God that is valuable to Wednesday?) 

I love how Dead Wife's journey with Mad Sweeney is beneficial for both-she is starting to have belief or faith, which, in turn, is what Sweeney needs! Salim offering to show Dead Wife how to pray, and explaining that he doesn't pray for things, but, offers thanks for his blessings makes me think Dead Wife may learn the lesson her ancestor didn't fully get...

[ombre]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

I love the poster's wondering who the hell among the other 99 medieval Irish experts provided the text for the show. 

That's an absolutely glorious question and spurs me to wonder just what percentage of those 100 medieval Irish experts are watching the show, which seems like one that would particularly appeal to that tiny community, and what other micro-communities might be avidly tuning in in unusually high percentages.

On an unrelated note, as I've rewatched the episode in bits and pieces over my lunches this week, the thing that keeps jumping out at me is what a beautiful job they've done in showing the relationship between Jacquel and Ibis.  Not many words between them, but such a sense of the depth and care of the relationship, the respect they have for one another's work and tangential expertise, the shared experience of having lived through many, many long-gone times and places.  It's beautiful writing and spare enough to give space for the actors to speak through their silences.  

I keep seeing people talking about being frustrated that more of the plot hasn't gone by yet, but I know where the end is and am happy the show isn't rushing to find it - it's like loving a book and struggling with the ever-thinner stack of pages in your right hand.  It is such a joy to see something that lets scenes breathe, that lets silences speak.  And while I appreciate that pacing for its own merits, it's also a neat device for giving the old gods, with their glacial, cyclical sense of time, a way to assert their own space in a story that is, inevitably, framed through the lens of the new gods and our forward-driven idea of time.  Digging their heels in, taking the time to find the right words for the story, to shape each letter.

[Rockstar99435]

I loved this episode. Mad Sweeney and Laura/Essie are all great together. I cried when he came to lead Essie to death. The original ice cream truck driver wanting Laura to hit him so it would look like he put up a fight and Mad Sweeney telling him that he definitely doesn't want her to hit him was great. 

I'm confused by the rabbit. Is it supposed to be working with Wednesday? Or was it just a creature of nature that was brought by Mad Sweeney's luck and gift of coins? Or was it a different God altogether?

There was another reference to Shadow becoming the King of America. When Essie and Sweeney were in prison together, Essie tells him to go to America and give his gold to the King of America and then eventually he does give his gold coin to Shadow.

[howivesforever]

2 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

I loved this episode. Mad Sweeney and Laura/Essie are all great together. I cried when he came to lead Essie to death. The original ice cream truck driver wanting Laura to hit him so it would look like he put up a fight and Mad Sweeney telling him that he definitely doesn't want her to hit him was great. 

I'm confused by the rabbit. Is it supposed to be working with Wednesday? Or was it just a creature of nature that was brought by Mad Sweeney's luck and gift of coins? Or was it a different God altogether?

There was another reference to Shadow becoming the King of America. When Essie and Sweeney were in prison together, Essie tells him to go to America and give his gold to the King of America and then eventually he does give his gold coin to Shadow.

But he stated he gave Shadow that coin by mistake. It was meant for The King of America.

[LadyJaney]

One other small question:  When Laura handed Ice cream truck driver all that Mad Sweeney had in his pocket, Mad Sweeney quickly grabbed something back from the pile.  What was it?  My best guess is the tobacco he rolls his cigarettes with...?

 

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I am so thankful that the original actor chosen to play Mad Sweeney had to back out! Pablo is perfect! 

So much love for this episode and for Mad Sweeney,  Yes Pablo is perfect, I can't imagine anyone else in the role.  It blows my mind how different I think he looks in real life too.  When I first watched this series, I was sure he was red-haired and probably spoke with an Irish or maybe English accent in real life.  

And I totally find him hot in Mad Sweeney mode (though Pablo is pretty good looking in real time too--a tall drink of water right there!)

[Morrigan2575]

28 minutes ago, LadyJaney said:

One other small question:  When Laura handed Ice cream truck driver all that Mad Sweeney had in his pocket, Mad Sweeney quickly grabbed something back from the pile.  What was it?  My best guess is the tobacco he rolls his cigarettes with...?

I thought it was his wallet but, wasn't really sure.

[Ravenya003]

One minor thing occurred to me: throughout the first half of the episode I found myself wondering why they'd made the pretty obvious decision to have Laura/Emily Browning go bra-less; but of course, once the ice cream truck crashed and she ended up on the roadside, the sight of her exposed guts relied on the fact she didn't have a bra to ... well, hold herself together. It would have gotten in the way of the entire visual. 

Quote

Not that I'm looking for spoilers, but I'm curious who he is addressing;  do the gods have gods?   Fate itself?   The universe?

Personally I think he was screaming his frustration at Wednesday (or rather Wednesday's orders; it didn't matter whether or not Wednesday could actually hear him) though I expect it was deliberately left ambiguous.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Ravenya003

[yagathai]

14 hours ago, LadyJaney said:

One other small question:  When Laura handed Ice cream truck driver all that Mad Sweeney had in his pocket, Mad Sweeney quickly grabbed something back from the pile.  What was it?  My best guess is the tobacco he rolls his cigarettes with...?

 

Looked like a packet of tobacco to me. Source: I used to roll my own.

 

21 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

I'm confused by the rabbit. Is it supposed to be working with Wednesday? Or was it just a creature of nature that was brought by Mad Sweeney's luck and gift of coins? Or was it a different God altogether?

There was another reference to Shadow becoming the King of America. When Essie and Sweeney were in prison together, Essie tells him to go to America and give his gold to the King of America and then eventually he does give his gold coin to Shadow.

Well, what ancient god is commonly associated with fluffy white bunnies? Don't say the Trix Rabbit (General Mills strikes again!).

[Bruinsfan]

Lord Frith?

[yagathai]

Were any of the bunnies in Watership Down white? I don't think they were. Certainly the one in my Watership Down tattoo isn't.

[ihartcoffee]

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

First let me state I absolutely loved this episode. However, for an episode titled A Prayer for Mad Sweeny, I actually expected more Mad Sweeny. That being said I loved the journey of Essie and Mad Sweeny (in the background) and, how the Old Gods and Magic folk came to the New World. 

I can't believe how much I've grown to like Laura Moon over the last few episodes.  Even though this was a complete break from the main story I thought it was fantastic.  As much as I thought the Road Trip was the best part of last week, a whole episode dedicated to Sweeny/Laura was so much better.

Is that what that scene in the dark was with Sweeny talking to the Raven? I couldn't figure out how the time jumped from day to night and back to day again.

If someone already responded,  my apologies but that was a flash back to Lara's first crash scene.  

[wayne67]

I'm glad there's only one more episode of this show, it feels like one of those shows you watch when you're enjoying the journey but I'm anxious to see a war between the gods, not get a long 'story' of the rise and fall of some dead woman, in order to get backstory for a coin/leprechaun. 

All the flashbacks get in the way of the forward progression of the main plot and interrupts the pacing of the episode (IMHO). 

[wilnil]

1 hour ago, wayne67 said:

I'm glad there's only one more episode of this show,

Well, there's only one more episode this season -- it's already been renewed for a second, I believe -- and that's undoubtedly part of why the show runners are focusing so much on the backstories and the secondary characters: so they don't get too deep into the book too soon for their timeline. It's been a long time since I read the novel, but it feels to me so far like they're shooting for a three-season run.

[ganesh]

On 6/12/2017 at 5:09 PM, Wanderdown said:

I think with an eight episode season, this should have had more story advancement and not be filler like this episode was.

I didn't realize it was eight episodes either. After getting around to the narrative in E5, this kind of really ground that down. It's interesting in and of itself, but I find both of these characters kind of one note to carry a whole episode. It seems like they could have sprinkled this in over the last 3 episodes or so. 

Wednesday really drives the show and taking him out for an entire episode is a curious narrative choice. 

I did like that we found out who is writing the stories. 

[starri]

The main plot that we've seen has covered about the first third of the book.  It's pretty well set-up for a three season arc, although I think the producers have said they could do four or five.

[ganesh]

It must be a thin book then because there hasn't been much plot given nearly seven hours of show. 

[SophieDelago]

I thought this episode was particularly beautiful. Especially considering the fact that Mad Sweeny could have walked away but he chose to give his coin back to Laura.

[yagathai]

I'm starting to think of this show as less of an episodic large-arc show like Sopranos or Deadwood, and more like a Red Shoe Diaries where there are a series of vignettes held together with a loose framing element. It isn't completely that, obviously, since Shadow's story is a lot more front-and-center than (David Duchovny's) Jake's story in Red Shoe Diaries (which I picked because it's the last vignette-based show with a framing element on cable that I can remember, besides maybe Tales from the Crypt), but if you look at it as a hybrid of the two styles, it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

 

Quote

It must be a thin book then because there hasn't been much plot given nearly seven hours of show. 

It isn't, but all of the Coming to America stories exist in the book as well.

Edited June 16, 2017 by yagathai