Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Even the big Dragonpit council scene can't take that long. So this is maybe 40 minutes' worth of stuff. Where's the rest of the episode?

Good question, this seems very light on content.  Hopefully we won't be treated to 20 minutes of the camera panning over the destruction in King's Landing with mournful music swelling to open the episode

[Minneapple]

13 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The only way I can explain Ayra's actions to head west, beyond the known world, just sail out to sea possibly forever, or until she circumnavigates the globe and hits whatever lies east of the Red Waste http://quartermaester.info/ or whatever, is that way back when GRRM told them the endings for the characters?

He was still planning on finishing the books soon, and that was his future spin off.  Ayra, discovers something that looks quite a bit like North or South American, and begins a new life.

Ahem.

Since when is Arya interested in exploring?

She had mentioned it in Braavos when Lady Crane was helping her heal, that she would like to go where no one had gone before. Aside from that, Arya was always restless, keen to go places.

[SeanC]

Arya becoming an adventurer I can definitely see in the books; the “what’s west of Westeros?” stuff kind of feels like a show invention to me, an elaboration on that concept, because Arya’s not a mariner.

Incidentally, where does TV Arya find a ship and crew ready to sail off into the unknown?  That feels like a very big development to pass over.

[Soup333]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

I think they will spend some time on Jon and Dany and Jon having to kill her. It's after all their big ending for the series. Dany and the man she loved having to kill her. If they do this in 10 minutes, the backlash these guys have seen thus far will be nothing compared to what they will get for the finale.

I think 30 minutes for Jon/Dany so that Emilia Clarke can try for her Emmy, 30 minutes for the trial so that Dinklage can get his Emmy and 20 minutes for the denouement.

Glad you put it this way because this is how it played to me. I wish they would have made him really love her - not just his words but his actions. This whole time I felt like he liked her well enough (until the reveal) but he was obligated to be true to his word and that’s why he’s doing all of this. Make him not give a shit about their familial relationship and her go mad anyway. Then when he has to kill her 🙄 there’s an internal struggle beyond snuffing out the queen he swore allegiance to. 

[stagmania]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

I think they will spend some time on Jon and Dany and Jon having to kill her. It's after all their big ending for the series. Dany and the man she loved having to kill her. If they do this in 10 minutes, the backlash these guys have seen thus far will be nothing compared to what they will get for the finale.

Given how terrible both their characterizations have been this season, I expect this to be painful on several levels. I also just keep thinking about how badly they’ve set up what is obviously supposed to play as tragedy. How much deeper would this land if they’d written them a proper romance? If Jon actually was in love with Daenerys? If they didn’t have him just avoid her once he found out who he is, but rather sincerely struggle to reconcile his identity issues, his desire for her, his disapproval of her actions and his duty to take the throne for the good of the people. This should have been very meaty material for Jon (and Kit Harrington) and instead it was just a big ol’ nothing.

ETA: Jinx, @Soup333!

Edited May 17, 2019 by stagmania

[Soup333]

6 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Given how terrible both their characterizations have been this season, I expect this to be painful on several levels. I also just keep thinking about how badly they’ve set up what is obviously supposed to play as tragedy. How much deeper would this land if they’d written them a proper romance? If Jon actually was in love with Daenerys? If they didn’t have him just avoid her once he found out who he is, but rather sincerely struggle to reconcile his identity issues, his desire for her, his disapproval of her actions and his duty to take the throne for the good of the people. This should have been very meaty material for Jon (and Kit Harrington) and instead it was just a big ol’ nothing.

ETA: Jinx, @Soup333!

Great minds. Although you were more elegant in your description. I actually might have enjoyed it if it was played that way. Guess that would have taken too much effort. 

[Soup333]

Am I petty for taking joy in the petition to have the season redone? There’s almost 800,000 supporting it now. Of course it’ll come to nothing but it gives me some happiness to see the number climbing. And the finale hasn’t even aired. 

[absnow54]

I mean really all that petition is ever going to do is humiliate D&D. Maybe Star Wars will drop their trilogy like they dropped Colin Trevorrow. And maybe it will inspire GRRM to actually finish the books to fix the final story arc (although, I also fear that the poor response will kill any chance of the books being finished.)

[Constantinople]

8 hours ago, Minneapple said:

She had mentioned it in Braavos when Lady Crane was helping her heal, that she would like to go where no one had gone before. Aside from that, Arya was always restless, keen to go places.

Aside from that one line, TV Arya has always been very goal oriented in her traveling (not that she always had a choice in where she was going).

[onyxrose81]

12 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I mean really all that petition is ever going to do is humiliate D&D. Maybe Star Wars will drop their trilogy like they dropped Colin Trevorrow. And maybe it will inspire GRRM to actually finish the books to fix the final story arc (although, I also fear that the poor response will kill any chance of the books being finished.)

Yeah, no one expects anything to happen except humiliating D&D.  That's the actual goal.  Or if anything, this may make Kathleen Kennedy keep a closer eye on them.  Like you said, she's dropped Colin Trevorrow.  If they think the fan reaction is bad, then they have no idea what awaits them with Star Wars fans.  They'll mess up their whole life.

[Dame sans merci]

35 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

Yeah, no one expects anything to happen except humiliating D&D.  That's the actual goal.  Or if anything, this may make Kathleen Kennedy keep a closer eye on them.  Like you said, she's dropped Colin Trevorrow.  If they think the fan reaction is bad, then they have no idea what awaits them with Star Wars fans.  They'll mess up their whole life.

Particularly if - as rumoured - their trilogy is based around the much beloved KOTOR. Mess that up and...yikes.

(And since I am cranky and running on pure spite at this point, I cannot wait for all this to go down. BLOODY BRING IT ON).

Edited May 17, 2019 by Dame sans merci

[onyxrose81]

8 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

Particularly if - as rumoured - their trilogy is based around the much beloved KOTOR. Mess that up and...yikes.

(And since I cranky and running on pure spite at this point, I cannot wait for all this to go down. BLOODY BRING IT ON).

Yep, I read that rumor and well...yikes indeed.  They need to be running scared.  

[Lady Iris]

I'm confused. We're supposed to believe that the woman we've been cheering on the past several years through all her trials and tribulations has just suddenly gone banana sandwich and is going to be killed in the final ep by her nephewlover? Right? That's what the writing on the wall is?

[ShellsandCheese]

11 hours ago, rmontro said:

Good question, this seems very light on content.  Hopefully we won't be treated to 20 minutes of the camera panning over the destruction in King's Landing with mournful music swelling to open the episode

Yes. Because we must be reminded that Dany killed thousands of innocent people. Tens of thousands of innocent people after the bells rang. We must be reminded that we need to care about all those poor innocents so that the audience cheers when Dany gets what’s coming to her. 

[Raachel2008]

12 hours ago, chrisvee said:

Maybe there will be extended scenes of Jon and Ghost playing in the snow to eat up the extra minutes 

Nerve going to happen. Jaime will be find alive under all that rubble and have 6 kids with Brienne before they give us a scene with Jon and Ghost playing in the snow. 

But I'm sure we'll get a lot of shots of Drogon flying

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Since when is Arya interested in exploring?

Since forever. Arya has always been a curious child, in the books she wandered around Winterfell, and in the show it has been established since the very first chapter that she wanted to see more, be in an adventure, etc. It fits her perfectly.

13 hours ago, bijoux said:

I don’t know which reaction option to chose because I want to laugh at the second paragraph and rage at the first. What the ever loving fuck? It’s not even the part about never loving her, it’s about making it all so simplistic. Like, I can absolutely believe Jaime would tell her that in that moment but you also need to contextualize it with self-loathing and him not seeing the point of dragging her down with him as he realizes he can never be free from Cersei. So the statement is actually motivated by his love for both women, one messed up, one pure. Jamie chooses the messed up one because that’s what he’s known for literally his entire life. There. It wasn’t even hard.

This is where I disagree with you. I agree that the scene was poorly done, but it was pretty clear he always loved Cersei more than anything. It is not about self-loathing, but I think about acceptance that Cersei is and will always be the love of his live. He didn't leave Winterfell to die with her. He left Winterfell to save her. It is not that Jaime can never be free from Cersei. It is that he wants to be with her. When push comes to shove, he loves Cersei more, much more. Deep down, maybe he wished to love Brienne more, but he didn't.

[Clawdette]

If the leak about Drogon flying away with Dany's body is true, I just have one question.

How does he accomplish this?  Is she in his mouth?  Does he grab her and do a head flip so she lands on his back?  Does he "ask" Jon to lend a hand?  

That's going to require top-shelf CGI.

(I realize that I should probably use the "it" pronoun when referring to Drogon since dragons are asexual but it just seems like a he to me.)

[Conotocarious]

I read that he picks her up with his talons. 

[funnygirl]

I still don't understand how Drogon doesn't light Jon up upon finding Dany dead. Or that Grey Worm and the unsullied don't kill him on the spot when he turns himself in. 

Whatever. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by funnygirl

[Bali]

Sam: I think we should just have a council of rulers. And I think Bran should lead it!

Bran: I'm not Bran. I'm the 3 eyed raven.
Sam: No one knows what that means.
Bran: It's difficult to explain.

Bronn: Then don't. This is shit.

Sansa: Whatever. I don't like anything anyway.

Tyrion: Well, then- who wants to play a drinking game?

Robyn Arryn: I miss being able to breast feed.

Tyrion: Me too.

Davos: I can't believe we fought the dead for this...

Fade to black

[DarkRaichu]

6 minutes ago, Bali said:

Sam: I think we should just have a council of rulers. And I think Bran should lead it!

Bran: I'm not Bran. I'm the 3 eyed raven.
Sam: No one knows what that means.
Bran: It's difficult to explain.

Bronn: Then don't. This is shit.

Sansa: Whatever. I don't like anything anyway.

Tyrion: Well, then- who wants to play a drinking game?

Robyn Arryn: I miss being able to breast feed.

Tyrion: Me too.

****

Davos: I can't believe we fought the dead for this...

Fade to black

****
An empty chair for Arya since she does not want any of these 😛

Gendry: I am the new Lord of Dragonstone.... What do lords do again?

Hot Pie: Pies for lunch!!

😄

[Snowball II]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I mean really all that petition is ever going to do is humiliate D&D. Maybe Star Wars will drop their trilogy like they dropped Colin Trevorrow. And maybe it will inspire GRRM to actually finish the books to fix the final story arc (although, I also fear that the poor response will kill any chance of the books being finished.)

I doubt D&D will be humiliated.  We can bitch all we want, but they're laughing all the way to the bank.

I hope you're wrong about the books, because I want this ending to be handled by GRRM.  I don't hate everything that's happening, I just hate the way it's been written.  We've gone from point A to Z with a lot of things, and it just doesn't feel satisfying.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Fiver

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I read that he picks her up with his talons. 

His back feet? Can't be his wings if he's going to fly off with her. Will look pretty odd if he flies off with her tucked between his toes.

[DarkRaichu]

8 minutes ago, Fiver said:

I doubt D&D will be humiliated.  We can bitch all we want, but they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Hard to feel any humiliation with all of the money in the bank + new TV shows + Star  Wars movies + whatever else they got as the result of GoT

[Stallion12]

3 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

I'm confused. We're supposed to believe that the woman we've been cheering on the past several years through all her trials and tribulations has just suddenly gone banana sandwich and is going to be killed in the final ep by her nephewlover? Right? That's what the writing on the wall is?

Yes, when she listened to her advisors she list, when she didn't she's the mad queen, yet cersi who's the Gillian thought deserved a chance to get away. It's just terrible writing.

[Eyes High]

I don't think the non-spoiled audience will be too shocked when Jon kills Dany. They can all see where this is going. That's the main reason in my opinion why the blowback over 8x05 was so intense. Everyone knew Dany was a dead woman and Team Jon (if not necessarily Jon) would have to put her down the minute she set civilians on fire.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[Stallion12]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I don't think the non-spoiled audience will be too shocked when Jon kills Dany. They can all see where this is going. That's the main reason in my opinion why the blowback over 8x05 was so intense. Everyone knew Dany was a dead woman the minute she set civilians on fire.

True, but John going north and bran being king will piss people off.

[stagmania]

9 minutes ago, screamin said:

His back feet? Can't be his wings if he's going to fly off with her. Will look pretty odd if he flies off with her tucked between his toes.

The final humiliation for their Khaleesi. Stripped of every good quality she ever possessed and her dignity, as well.

[JennyMominFL]

Not all of us have been cheering for Dany

[Affogato]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

Arya becoming an adventurer I can definitely see in the books; the “what’s west of Westeros?” stuff kind of feels like a show invention to me, an elaboration on that concept, because Arya’s not a mariner.

Incidentally, where does TV Arya find a ship and crew ready to sail off into the unknown?  That feels like a very big development to pass over.

Someone like Bran or the council will fund her. Or Yara. Or Gendry. She saved the world, after all. They owe her. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Affogato

[Soup333]

3 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Not all of us have been cheering for Dany

You haven’t perhaps but you don’t speak for everyone. As many people hate her character there are just as many that love her. 

ETA: sorry, I read “not all of us” as “none of us.”  

Edited May 17, 2019 by Soup333

[Eyes High]

32 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

True, but John going north and bran being king will piss people off.

I saw more than a few casual unspoiled viewers prick their ears up on Twitter at Jon and Tormund's "This is goodbye, OR IS IT?" conversation in 8x04, so even Jon going North won't come as a complete surprise, I think. The only real shock will be King Bran, I think.

It is hilarious to me that the only endgame ship left standing other than Sam/Gilly will be Tormund/Jon. Jon ends up with a cute wildling kissed by fire, just not Ygritte.

In retrospect, if you assume that Jon was always going to find out about his claim, his claim was always going to become public knowledge, and Jon was never going to get over the incest, Jon and Dany's romance seems horribly doomed in retrospect, like a Greek tragedy. Jon wouldn't be Jon if he could get over the incest, and Dany wouldn't be Dany if she could give up on the throne rather than cede to Jon's claim.

Also in retrospect, Drogon staring Jon down in 8x01 when he was kissing Dany was a symbolic nod to how his Targ parentage would end up tearing them apart. It seems very ominous on rewatch.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[Colorful Mess]

6 hours ago, stagmania said:

Given how terrible both their characterizations have been this season, I expect this to be painful on several levels. I also just keep thinking about how badly they’ve set up what is obviously supposed to play as tragedy. How much deeper would this land if they’d written them a proper romance? If Jon actually was in love with Daenerys? If they didn’t have him just avoid her once he found out who he is, but rather sincerely struggle to reconcile his identity issues, his desire for her, his disapproval of her actions and his duty to take the throne for the good of the people. This should have been very meaty material for Jon (and Kit Harrington) and instead it was just a big ol’ nothing.

ETA: Jinx, @Soup333!

I'm so happy they didn't. Jon Snow falling in love with a mass murderer, and actually desiring that? There's nothing to be conflicted about there.

[Callista]

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

I still don't understand how Drogon doesn't light Jon up upon finding Dany dead. Or that Grey Worm and the unsullied don't kill him on the spot when he turns himself in. 

Whatever. 

D&D will probably explain it away by saying, "Drogon didn't burn Jon because he was actually grateful to Jon. By killing Dany, Jon freed Drogon forever from his controlling mother. Now Drogon has his manhood back and is free!" 

[Minneapple]

14 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

True, but John going north and bran being king will piss people off.

I don't think so. A lot of people thought Jon would be going back North, and Bran as king has been the favorite with the gambling houses.

[Soup333]

18 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

I'm so happy they didn't. Jon Snow falling in love with a mass murderer, and actually desiring that? There's nothing to be conflicted about there.

BEFORE her actions in episode five. 

[Lady Iris]

18 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I saw more than a few casual unspoiled viewers prick their ears up on Twitter at Jon and Tormund's "This is goodbye, OR IS IT?" conversation in 8x04, so even Jon going North won't come as a complete surprise, I think. The only real shock will be King Bran, I think.

I'm getting an Andy Dufresne and Red vibe here. Jon will walk up on a frozen tundra and be greeted with a giant Tormund bear hug with Ghost happily jumping around Jon's feet and they'll go build shit or something.

[Soup333]

13 minutes ago, Callista said:

D&D will probably explain it away by saying, "Drogon didn't burn Jon because he was actually grateful to Jon. By killing Dany, Jon freed Drogon forever from his controlling mother. Now Drogon has his manhood back and is free!" 

Or maybe he “forgot” that Dany was his mother. 

[Eyes High]

6 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I'm getting an Andy Dufresne and Red vibe here. Jon will walk up on a frozen tundra and be greeted with a giant Tormund bear hug with Ghost happily jumping around Jon's feet and they'll go build shit or something.

The Shawshank Redemption is one of my favourite movies, so I'm equally cool with this, but I stand by my ship. Tormund calls him "My little crow"!

On another note, I don't know if anyone remembers, but HBO through Direct TV released these little character-specific videos the week before the premiere with clips and quotes edited together to music. I went and rewatched the Tyrion one, and it includes his speech to Dany about how he never wanted to believe in anything, but he believed in her. Incredibly tragic, in light of what happened. The Jaime video concluded with Joffrey taunting Jaime about his lack of great deeds, and Jaime saying that "There's still time." I guess there wasn't.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[stagmania]

24 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

I'm so happy they didn't. Jon Snow falling in love with a mass murderer, and actually desiring that? There's nothing to be conflicted about there.

...the idea is he would be in love with her before she commits an atrocity, and then have to kill her after. That's what makes it a tragedy.

4 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Or maybe he “forgot” that Dany was his mother. 

LOL. They're never living that meme down.

Edited May 17, 2019 by stagmania

[Colorful Mess]

14 minutes ago, stagmania said:

...the idea is he would be in love with her before she commits an atrocity, and then have to kill her after. That's what makes it a tragedy.

19 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

BEFORE her actions in episode five. 

Dany threatening him during their first meeting, Dany flying off to do major damage to people on her dragon, Dany wasting time with Cersei's truce, Dany smirking as she threatens the Northern smallfolk, Dany making him swear to hide his identity from his family and throwing ultimatums around, Dany actually saying this to him during his identity crisis: 

"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU WANT what happens when they demand you press your claim and take WHAT IS MINE?!?!"

Because Jon would love this? ^

The only tragic love story was seasons 2, 3, and 4 with Ygritte. It was done convincingly because Ygritte was quite normal and never as problematic as Dany was. It's like they made Jon/Dany forgettable because it was never meant to be deeply rooted.

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Dany threatening him during their first meeting, Dany flying off to do major damage to people on her dragon, Dany wasting time with Cersei's truce, Dany smirking as she threatens the Northern smallfolk, Dany making him swear to hide his identity from his family and throwing ultimatums around, Dany actually saying this to him during his identity crisis: 

"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU WANT what happens when they demand you press your claim and take WHAT IS MINE?!?!"

Because Jon would love this? ^

The only tragic love story was seasons 2, 3, and 4 with Ygritte. It was done convincingly because Ygritte was quite normal and never as problematic as Dany was. It's like they made Jon/Dany forgettable because it was never meant to be deeply rooted.

Except it clearly is meant to be a powerful love story, otherwise the climax would lack drama.  Jon killing somebody he doesn’t feel particularly attached to isn’t much of a character conflict.

Also, Jon was more or less constantly at risk of death if he didn’t make Ygritte happy.

Edited May 17, 2019 by SeanC

[Colorful Mess]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Except it clearly is meant to be a powerful love story, otherwise the climax would lack drama.  Jon killing somebody he doesn’t feel particularly attached to isn’t much of a character conflict.

Well he's already not in love with her...or fallen out of love.

Kinslayer and queenslayer is enough conflict. Jon loving a war criminal and a mass murderer is just so ridiculous, it ruins all the tragedy. Maybe they'll do it, but I can't stop laughing at this idea. It's like Old Yeller Dany. 

[stagmania]

6 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Dany wasting time with Cersei's truce

Legitimately have no idea what this means. Jon shouldn't love Dany because she listened to him and her advisers and delayed going after Cersei to help save humanity?

Quote

The only tragic love story was seasons 2, 3, and 4 with Ygritte. It was done convincingly because Ygritte was quite normal and never as problematic as Dany was. 

Uh, I loved Ygritte and that romance, but she was a straight up murderer who was killed trying to slaughter Jon's people. Weird how there's room for nuance with some characters but not others.

[Colorful Mess]

Just now, stagmania said:

Legitimately have no idea what this means. Jon shouldn't love Dany because she listened to him and her advisers and delayed going after Cersei to help save humanity?

Because she hesitated at every point? Wight hunt, truce, Dany looked at the Night King and thought...well he's bad yes but first we need to make sure Cersei doesn't take back my territory. At every point she thinks about her throne. I'm sure Jon "titles don't matter" loves that about her!

3 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Uh, I loved Ygritte and that romance, but she was a straight up murderer who was killed trying to slaughter Jon's people. Weird how there's room for nuance with some characters but not others.

my point was that if people's kinks are "Jon falling in love with a murderer" they clearly put more effort into that with Ygritte probably because Ygritte didn't destroy an entire city after people yielded. She's just one woman with a bow.  Proportionality is a thing. The show gets that I think. 

[SeanC]

13 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Because she hesitated at every point? Wight hunt, truce, Dany looked at the Night King and thought...well he's bad yes but first we need to make sure Cersei doesn't take back my territory. At every point she thinks about her throne. I'm sure Jon "titles don't matter" loves that about her!

my point was that if people's kinks are "Jon falling in love with a murderer" they clearly put more effort into that with Ygritte probably because Ygritte didn't destroy an entire city after people yielded. She's just one woman with a bow.  Proportionality is a thing. The show gets that I think. 

Jon spent most of season seven refusing to bend the knee, so obviously titles did matter to him.

Dany hadn’t destroyed a city when Jon fell in love with her.  That event is the thing that incites the tragic outcome (as well as his anachronistic attitude toward the parentage reveal).

[Uncle JUICE]

13 hours ago, GraceK said:

Sorry, not sure why that's there. I think the problem I have with the J+D love story is the utter lack of chemistry on screen between the two actors as much as it is a poorly drawn love story. WHy do they love each other exactly? Because she went north and he bent the knee? That's transactional. We didn't even get a bunch of scenes where Jon says "Father used to say" every third sentence, I mean how did they bond? 

[Eyes High]

Thinking a lot about the character endgames that we now know, I think a lot of it is very fitting, even if how they got there is questionable:

Theon: Dies at Winterfell, the castle he once attacked and took, defending Bran and the other Starks

Jorah: Dies defending Dany (most of us figured he would go that way, anyway)

Lyanna: After all her tough talk about being a hero, dies doing something heroic (sacrificing herself to take out the giant)

Jaime: Unable to abandon Cersei and dies in her arms as he wished ("She'll be the end of you")

Cersei: After doing everything to preserve her power, dies when the Red Keep literally comes crashing down on her head

Sandor: Dies getting the revenge he wanted but successfully stops Arya from dying in her quest for vengeance

Jon: After years of being used by other people (even his friends and family like Sansa and Sam) in service of this or that aim and thrust into this or that position of leadership against his wishes, he finally finds peace beyond the Wall with people who didn't care about his bastardy and who don't care about his claim

Tyrion: Like Tywin, brings what we can assume will be peace and prosperity to Westeros by serving as Hand to a checked-out king (although not a mad one in Tyrion's case)

Arya: Gives up her quest for vengeance, rejects a conventional existence and seeks out a life of adventure

Sansa: Remains Lady of Winterfell

Dany: Brought down by her refusal to restrain her Targaryen side, which had been an ongoing problem (Dany becoming less and less inclined to listen to Tyrion's calls for restraint, e.g.)

...I dunno. Apart from King Bran, it all works for me. That leaves me in the minority, I realize. I now see what John Bradley was talking about in terms of "satisfying," where he compared S8 to the Red Wedding. All of this fits and feels right to me (apart from King Bran), even if it's painful and tragic, maybe even because it's painful and tragic. A lot of it feels brutally logical to me, even Dany's dark turn. 

Also, while we talk about the Lannisters having eaten the show and D&D's clear preference for them, I do think there was something truly moving and even beautiful about how the Lannister siblings were there for each other at the very end. Cersei spared Tyrion's life when he walked within range of her archers, even though it would have been an easy and cheap way to provoke Dany. Tyrion did something that he thought was signing his own death warrant not only to try to save KL but also to give Jaime and Cersei a shot at escaping with their lives. Jaime gave up any shot at redemption and sacrificed his own life to die alongside Cersei. And Cersei, realizing it was all over, tearfully reconciled with Jaime, begging him not to let her die. For all the talk about how pure the Starks' love is and how toxic the Lannisters supposedly are, when push came to shove, it was the Lannisters who loved each other, fought for each other and ultimately died (or tried to die, in Tyrion's case) for each other.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[Soup333]

Also, Jon and Ygritte was solely Martin’s. Had nothing to do with D&D’s influence. So when you say “they” put more effort into Jon/Ygritte that’s not accurate. 

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

****
An empty chair for Arya since she does not want any of these 😛

Gendry: I am the new Lord of Dragonstone.... What do lords do again?

Hot Pie: Pies for lunch!!

😄

Now I'm hoping that if Gendry really is the lord of Dragonstone (still not 100% sure of that despite spoilers) that he goes back to that inn and hires Hot Pie as his cook. He needs a buddy.

1 hour ago, Fiver said:

I don't hate everything that's happening, I just hate the way it's been written.  We've gone from point A to Z with a lot of things, and it just doesn't feel satisfying.

 

1 hour ago, Callista said:

D&D will probably explain it away by saying, "Drogon didn't burn Jon because he was actually grateful to Jon. By killing Dany, Jon freed Drogon forever from his controlling mother. Now Drogon has his manhood back and is free!" 

But what manhood if dragons are it, not he or she? 

[Colorful Mess]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Jon spent most of season seven refusing to bend the knee, so obviously titles did matter to him.

Dany hadn’t destroyed a city when Jon fell in love with her.  That event is the thing that incites the tragic outcome (as well as his anachronistic attitude toward the parentage reveal).

Re: titles mattering to him. I think titles only mattered to his people for independence purposes, not really to him. But ok he's supposed to love Dany, who is written to love her titles more than him (otherwise she wouldn't be so threatened by his claim).

I just was just never convinced by this romance on screen. Other people criticize the writing all day long but the Jon/Dany "romance" is like some sacred cow that can't be slaughtered?

Bookwise Jon fell in love with the non-violent qualities that Ygritte had, specifically her singing. I'm not really sure what Jon would like about Dany, she's been absolutely insufferable. And violent. And selfish. And (literally) entitled. 

Anachronisms...don't apply here. It's fantasy.