S05.E23: Lian Yu

[ladylaw99]

MOIRA! I will never not miss this character or ST.  HUGE MISTAKE ARROW in getting rid of her.  HUGE!

That small scene made the finale for me.  The emotion that ST portrays as a mother made me tear up.   There is no greater pain than the lost of a child, whether they are 5 or 20.  All I can mutter right now is - ST was wonderful (grabbing a tissue again).

As for the rest, I am glad I don't pay attention to the media who viewed this episode prior because I would have been disappointed.  This, for me, was not the best season finale of Arrow.

I like to feel emotion when I watch t.v. and this finale had potential to be great but they didn't let it breathe.  I am glad Chase died because no one can be that many steps ahead all the time.  That is my only problem with Chase.  Like I said before I wished this was more of a cat and mouse game instead of Chase always having the upper hand.  I will miss JS, he brought life into this character.  Any character can fight but to mess with someone's mind - now that is a true villain.

I liked the Olicity moment.  I thought it was sweet and tender. It's them.  I also enjoyed the Thea and Felicity scene.  Why we don't have more of these I will never understand.  I like the fight between Nyssa and Talia. Not long enough but I am glad Nyssa wiped that smug look   from her sister.  I don't think Malcolm is dead dead and that is why he didn't get a better death.  But if I am wrong and he is truly dead than the writers should be ashamed. 

Slade, was one of my favorites in the beginning of the series.  The relationship between Oliver and Slade was and still is great.  SA and MB play off eachother so well. I am glad he was back.

The bad.  I am not going into too much detail because all of you have explained how I felt about Samantha, BS, Evelyn, Oliver and the worst the son/boy.

My biggest complaint will always be "where the F is my OTA?"  This pissed me off more than the whiny son/boy.  There are always a few episodes that I know I am guaranteed good OTA and the finale is usually one of them.  What the hell happened this year.  I could have done without 1/2 these people they wrote in this episode.  Most of these characters did nothing accept take up screen time from my OTA.  I'm sorry but nobody puts Diggle in a corner.  He did nothing, Felicity did nothing, what the hell.  I am a big OTA fan and this was an insult for me.  I could do without Oliver asking about his boy for the 20th time, canaries/bs screeching at eachother or Samantha being irrelevant.  I want the heart of this show back and for me it will always be OTA.

[tv echo]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Yeah but what about that mid season 3 episode? He got cured in the season 2 finale and that's how Oliver defeated him.

I guess we're supposed to believe that the cure took away Slade's super strength but not his madness, and that the madness took several years (or many years) to wear off.

One of the media reviewers suggested that maybe we'll get Felicity being a stepmom to William in a nod to her comic book roots (where comics Felicity Smoak became Firestorm's stepmom). That honestly had not occurred to me.

At this point, I'm not completely sure what will happen to everyone in the fall. I'm confident that Felicity will survive, but who knows what MG/WM will cook up over the summer.

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

I guess we're supposed to believe that the cure took away Slade's super strength but not his madness, and that the madness took several years (or many years) to wear off.

One of the media reviewers suggested that maybe we'll get Felicity being a stepmom to William in a nod to her comic book roots (where comics Felicity Smoak became Firestorm's stepmom). That honestly had not occurred to me.

But Roy was fine after they cured him. Not crazy. I think it's a case of the writers being mediocre as usual.

It has occurred to me. But more because of Oliver's wife being a step mom.

[tv echo]

I forgot about Roy! (Poor Roy - always forgotten.) You've got me, then. I'm stumped as to how mirakuru works.

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But Roy was fine after they cured him. Not crazy. I think it's a case of the writers being mediocre as usual.

Well, maybe because Slade was under the effects of Mirakuru longer, it just took longer to wear off? Roy was only on the drug for a little while, but Slade was under the effects for many years. 

Not that the show thought about this in any way. They're the ones who had Roy electrocuted and then not seen again that episode. 

[leopardprint]

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I guess we're supposed to believe that the cure took away Slade's super strength but not his madness, and that the madness took several years (or many years) to wear off.

I'm of two minds about Slade because the character himself didn't bother me in this episode but this was not pre-Mirakuru Slade from the flashbacks. This was like E2 Slade who went to the Zen monastery instead of obsessing over Shado. PM Slade would not have given two thoughts to Oliver's guilt and told him to suck it up so they could get off the island. He was super pragmatic. (Aside: I would like to know if MB narrate audiobooks, um for scientific purposes.)

Also, and this is purely unintentional by the show, but Slade and Oliver murdered a hella ton of people that didn't deserve it so them absolving themselves of guilt didn't sit well with me. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[Chaser]

I'm rather annoyed with the two 'milestone' episodes this season. 5x23 with Oliver and his son and 5x08 with its sidelining of the characters and relationships developed to play a weird what if based off of the pilot. 

Can we focus on the characters who made Oliver who he is today for these episodes please?

[Angel12d]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The only line I remember was about Dinah replacing her before Lance hit her. But it didn't make sense because she was never part of the team so more than one of the best it was one of the stupidest lines and also why would a fan of Laurel like hearing about how they replaced E1 Laurel?

Wait. So did he mean "Do you think you could replace me?" That was the best line? Uh...

I am confusion. 

[paigow]

14 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

LMAO!

She's just referring to herself and Curits. The line is: "Oh, don't worry, between Curtis and I we have over 500 points of IQ, so ..."

The answer is the same as why there is no Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris - The Metric System

[insomniadreams88]

14 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

LMAO!

She's just referring to herself and Curits. The line is: "Oh, don't worry, between Curtis and I we have over 500 points of IQ, so ..."

Maybe the meaning of the line was supposed to be that since she and Curtis have high IQs, combined with Thea and Samantha's, the four of them have over 500 points of IQ? I think it was just a poorly written line. 

[Happy Harpy]

Here's to the hope that the future Olicitots take their brains from their mother, their resilience from their father, and everything else from Moira Freaking Dearden Queen.

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

Here's to the hope that the future Olicitots take their brains from their mother, their resilience from their father, and everything else from Moira Freaking Dearden Queen.

I think Felicity will be marrying Oliver for his looks at this point. 

[Hiveminder]

8 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think Felicity will be marrying Oliver for his looks at this point. 

Oh come on, that's really rude and just patently untrue. 

 

 

He cooks too. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Hiveminder

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Oh come on, that's really rude and just patently untrue. 

 

 

He cooks too. 

Beauty fades, cordon bleu recipes are forever.

Edited May 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

23 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Wait. So did he mean "Do you think you could replace me?" That was the best line? Uh...

I am confusion. 

I'm confused too but I can't remember any other line of hers LOL

[TwistedandBored]

It was an okay season finale. It wasn't the best season finale like everyone was hyping it up to be but it was ok. Like I am not worried about Felicity, Thea, or Diggle dying. I know they will be fine. Olicity was cute for a moment but I really wanted more OTA scenes.

The whole death of the son thing was such a trollish thing to do. The writers must know the kid is one their stupidest plot devices that I most want to get rid off. So, they played me for a second. 

Chase: Your son is dead.

Oliver: No, he is not.

Me:

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Brings It Full Circle For The Season Finale

Oliver brings the whole cast to the island where it all began, for an explosive end to the season.

I love the body double in this shot. I'm imagining he started to dance a second after this was snapped like in the S2 blooper reel.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Some nice gifs from the Oohlo review...

Oh, hey, I only just got this reflects the S1 finale where Oliver and Dig looked upon the Glades being destructed.

[benteen]

Only one missing from this episode was Sara but that's understandable. 

I do wish Katrina Law would show up on Legends of Tomorrow.

[Chaser]

I forgot to mention that it was nice of Oliver to make the Deathstroke mask super shiny for Slade.

The gif of Lance hitting BS. What's that wiggle thing she is doing?

[statsgirl]

As much as I appreciate Slade's therapy with Oliver, not everything that's happened to Oliver is about his father.  Ra's was because of Thea's father.

Why did Oliver give Joe's information to Slade on a USB key?  Does Slade have access to computers in the ARGUS prison?  Wouldn't they give him shoes, and maybe a toilet first?

Thea must weigh all of 90 pounds.  Why couldn't they just find a large rock to replace her?

Malcolm "A child doesn't have to ask."  Me: Tell that to Tommy.

When Talia said to Nyssa "You've allied yourself with Father's murderer", I wanted Nyssa to reply  "I wanted to be the one to do it myself."  Because that's what she told Oliver in s3.

15 hours ago, SleepDeprived said:

Anyway, after reading through the board before watching tonight and because I figured I might get kinda bored, I decided that, for fun, I would try to count how many times "My Son" was going to be referenced. It wasn't fun keeping track of it, by the way. The more that kid was referenced as though he was someone other than a crayon-loving plot device, the more I felt a bit frustrated about this episode because I don't know William and I don't care for that child and I certainly don't have any sort of attachment to Oliver's non-existent relationship with him, the actor's inability to emote and make me feel something for him, notwithstanding.

• Oliver saying "My Son" = 13
• Other people saying "Your Son" = 9 (with one of those being a "Your kid")
• Oliver saying "William" = 5
• Other people saying "William" = 6
• Oliver saying "Your son" to Slade, Slade saying "My son", Oliver saying "Our sons", Samantha saying "My Son", Moira saying "My son" = 1 each

PSA, y'all: Do not engage in any type of drinking game when watching this episode. Myson is so not worth your poor livers.

Thank you for taking the bullet for the tream.

It occurred to me that if Oliver had been saying "William" instead of "my son" all the time, we might have felt more of a connection to  "William" as a person instead of him being a trophy offspring for Oliver.   It might not have made us care about William enough but at least it would have been more than as a cypher.

14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I suddenly wonder how many other times William has been kidnapped that Samantha just forgot to mention.  Kid is way too much of an old pro at this.  

Hey, then the problem wouldn't be who Oliver is!

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

If Chase had a dead man's switch wouldn't knocking him out have blown up the island as well? At the very least Oliver should've tied him up. Chase could've still had a cyanide tablet hidden in a fake tooth or some other crazy shit that would've had the same result with Oliver being more proactive.

I don't understand how that switch worked because Chase wasn't holding anything which is how a Dead Man's Switch usually works.    Was it tied to his heartbeat?  If so, knocking him out wouldn't have affected it because his heart would still be beating.

Oliver:  Is everything off the plane?

Malcolm:  Everything except the guns and ammunition.  [plane goes kaboom]

Malcolm should you really be throwing shade at Oliver's IQ?

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Why did Oliver give Joe's information to Slade on a USB key?  Does Slade have access to computers in the ARGUS prison?  Wouldn't they give him shoes, and maybe a toilet first?

Thea must weigh all of 90 pounds.  Why couldn't they just find a large rock to replace her?

Malcolm "A child doesn't have to ask."  Me: Tell that to Tommy.

I'm assuming the USB was because they needed some way of giving Slade the information and didn't want Oliver carrying a folder of papers with him. Also, considering Oliver was apparently surprised to see how calm Slade was, I don't get why he had it in the first place. Did he just decide he didn't care about Joe's safety since his own son was in danger? Say Slade was still crazy and the Mirakuru hadn't "worn off" and he hadn't been getting weekly therapy sessions, which is how I'm head-canoning the change in him, would it really be wise to give him that information? 

I think someone brought up getting a large rock and they vetoed that? Because, you know, Malcolm had to take her place, so no other plan would have been acceptable. 

Poor Tommy. Just, always, poor Tommy. 

[AudienceofOne]

40 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Malcolm "A child doesn't have to ask."  Me: Tell that to Tommy.

The good news is that Tommy and Sara are having a ball together at the Parental Amnesia Resort.

[Delphi]

37 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

Thea must weigh all of 90 pounds.  Why couldn't they just find a large rock to replace her?

Malcolm "A child doesn't have to ask."  Me: Tell that to Tommy.

Ha,  dead at your Thea/ rock comment.   Curtis suggested a boulder,  because clearly Thea weighs a ton. 

 

Also Tommy who?  Malcolm doesn't remember any Tommy. 

[Lantern7]

Just now, Delphi said:

Ha,  dead at your Thea/ rock comment.   Curtis suggested a boulder,  because clearly Thea weighs a ton.

Stuff I learned watching G.I. Joe back in the day: You can get off a land mine if you put something heavier on it. Granted, that nugget came from Footloose. In retrospect, the elite anti-terrorist organization must have been really lax about recreational drug use.

At least we didn't have a "Save Moira" scene. "WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT NAME???!!!?"

[Mrs. de Winter]

I will give MB points - his behavior since he left the show has not endeared him to me, but he is a good enough actor that I still appreciated Slade last night. 

Strangely I think my favorite Olicity moment was not the kiss but the exchange about Slade.  Felicity wants Oliver to explain his seeming poor choice and Oliver agrees he will (if at a more appropriate time).  Sweet progress!  If only he had done that with Myson.  And I would have paid for that scene to have included MB instead of his stunt double because I am guessing his facial expression would have been worth it. 

As much as I don't want the kid around I still hope Samantha is dead.  Everything she said last night was stupid and annoying.  She snarks about Malcolm being willing to die for his kid?  But plays mother of the year later about leaving the island?  Perhaps Myson didn't get all his stupid from Oliver after all.  And what a waste that we had to have Felicity stuck talking to her when they could have extended Felicity's scene with Thea instead. 

I seriously needs someone to ask DR and/or EBR why they are not allowed to be friends on screen anymore.  It has just gone beyond stupid that they never get to really interact anymore.   

Hit her again Quintin!  I struggle with my love for you since you helped spawn LL in the first place, but if you keep clocking (any version of) her it will go a long way in getting back in my good graces.  

ST was great last night.  SA does such good work with her - it is such a waste that they killed her off. 

[paigow]

Malcolm must have one of those magical escape arrows that Oliver uses...the ones that anchor themselves in thin air, then power winch him away to safety....

[tennisgurl]

The problem I always had with the Slade and Mirakuru was that his insanity never made a lot of sense to me, and it all seemed really cheap. By the time he was in Star City, he was this super competent super villain, but he was also seeing a ghostly version of Shado (if I remember right) telling him to destroy Oliver, even though her death really wasn't Oliver's fault. At all. It was just all very poorly done, in my opinion. Its just like they totally changed his character from a tough but decent guy to a totally murderous bastard with the only character he got was "Mirakuru made him crazy".

Poor Tommy. Where was all this Father of the Year bullshit when he was alive, huh? And what was that line about loving Thea from the second she was born? Dude, you didn't know she was your bio kid until she was like 18. Back off.

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

I seriously needs someone to ask DR and/or EBR why they are not allowed to be friends on screen anymore.  It has just gone beyond stupid that they never get to really interact anymore.   

OMG, now I'm picturing it's because those two actors are fueding behind the scenes except they seem to be the most chillaxed actors in entire flarrow bunch. I choose to believe Diggle was sidelined because of someone's bicep envy. ?? 

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

As much as I appreciate Slade's therapy with Oliver, not everything that's happened to Oliver is about his father.  Ra's was because of Thea's father.

You know that scene in the temple with Chase was also weird. He said "You can blame me for your father's death but I am done blaming myself for mine." Except you did kill Chase's father (whether he deserved it or not) and you are not responsible for yours? I forgot only Queen deaths matter on this show.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Also, considering Oliver was apparently surprised to see how calm Slade was, I don't get why he had it in the first place. Did he just decide he didn't care about Joe's safety since his own son was in danger? Say Slade was still crazy and the Mirakuru hadn't "worn off" and he hadn't been getting weekly therapy sessions, which is how I'm head-canoning the change in him, would it really be wise to give him that information? 

I figure Oliver had been getting regular briefings on Slade's situation from Lyla/ARGUS.  He knew the Mirakuru was gone and he probably knew that Slade's psychosis had abated.  On the other hand, Oliver knew he was still the guy who'd taken Slade's eye, stuffed him in a secret prison and allowed the death of Shado.  He probably expected to have to get through Slade's anger at him.  He also probably expected to use the USB drive (which was certainly encrypted/password protected) to bargain for Slade's help.  To his surprise he met a man far more at peace than he expected and wound up giving Slade the drive as a gift rather than using it as a bargaining chip.

Edited May 26, 2017 by johntfs

[Sunshine]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:37 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Looks like they cut a Laurel/Dinah scene. In the trailer we had DD looking defeated and Siren going "not bad" as if they'd just got done fighting 

Not sure if anyone responded or not.  I think that was an editing trick.  I think DD's part is from the scene were DD was telling Diggle & Lance that she couldn't use her scream because of the sonic dampeners.  Not sure where BS's line came from.  People were speculating that BS was living in the burned out Queen mansion from that shot too. Turns out Moira was inhabiting the mansion. 

[ohjoy]

7 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Chase: Your son is dead.

Oliver: No, he is not.

Me:

THIS WAS SO ME.

[statsgirl]

10 hours ago, ladylaw99 said:

My biggest complaint will always be "where the F is my OTA?"  This pissed me off more than the whiny son/boy.  There are always a few episodes that I know I am guaranteed good OTA and the finale is usually one of them.  What the hell happened this year.  I could have done without 1/2 these people they wrote in this episode.  Most of these characters did nothing accept take up screen time from my OTA.  I'm sorry but nobody puts Diggle in a corner.  He did nothing, Felicity did nothing, what the hell.  I am a big OTA fan and this was an insult for me.  I could do without Oliver asking about his boy for the 20th time, canaries/bs screeching at eachother or Samantha being irrelevant.  I want the heart of this show back and for me it will always be OTA.

The spoilers for the episode said that Diggle and Felicity will play significant roles helping Oliver in the episode. WTH?  Did either of them do anything more than Curtis (for Felicity) or Dinah, Curtis or any other fighter (for Diggle)?

10 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But Roy was fine after they cured him. Not crazy. I think it's a case of the writers being mediocre as usual.

Roy was under the influence of Mirakuru for a handful of weeks.  Slade was under it for five  years.  I would be surprised if it didn't change his brain patterns permanently.  Several drugs do.

3 hours ago, leopardprint said:

You know that scene in the temple with Chase was also weird. He said "You can blame me for your father's death but I am done blaming myself for mine." Except you did kill Chase's father (whether he deserved it or not) and you are not responsible for yours? I forgot only Queen deaths matter on this show.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I interpreted that as Oliver saying that he was responsible for Claybourne's death but not for Robert's, implying that he had felt responsible for Robert's death for all these years and possibly that was why he had spent five years trying to save Star(ling) City, because he felt responsible for Robert's death.

When you think about it, Robert Queen really did a number on his son.

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

 

The gif of Lance hitting BS. What's that wiggle thing she is doing?

It took me a while to figure it out, but it's her prepping to scream.

[BkWurm1]

17 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

Why are all villains Olicity shippers? Are they trying to say something about us *looks mildly offended*

 

I don't think the villains are shippers so much as they have studied their opponent and they know how much Felicity means to him so they spend time thinking about their relationship.  

Slade tried to kill her and continued to taunt Oliver about her so I have to imagine that as he lost the crazy, he wondered how it all turned out.  And if we accept that he did love Shado and valued that love, then if he started thinking fondly of Oliver again, then wanting it to have worked out for Oliver and Felicity would make sense.  I liked him ribbing Oliver about not getting it right but he also knew it wasn't over with Felicity.  And hey, they were doing therapy about everything else, lol.

Ra's also studied Oliver's life and to him Olicity was something he could use to show off his power.  He could play the magnanimous ruler, graciously allowing them their last moment together.  That's how little their love and free will mattered.  He could let them have that taste without if threatening any of his plans.  

And if of course with Chase, she was just there as a way to hurt and threaten Oliver.  I am curious to know if he's always known that Felicity was his love or if he was fooled at all by Susan.  

 

17 hours ago, johntfs said:

Wasn't it a seaplane?  The wing hydraulics sabotage means it can't fly but there's no reason it can't go kind of like a motorboat is there?  Also, they don't have to disarm all the C-4 on the island, just stuff close enough to blow them up.

I was wondering if it was a seaplane as well.  I watched again and still couldn't tell for sure but they were out of luck since the plane was not in the sea but in a little clearing, no where close enough to the water.  

15 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

Blowing up an entire island, especially a large one like Lian Yu, should cause some natural catastrophes, right? Did Chase just tsunami China?

Honestly, the explosions didn't look like they would do much more than disturb the surface of the island.  

14 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I loved the season 2 finale with OTA in the center of everything that was happening and Felicity having a key role. In this one Felictiy did barely anything and I don't even remember if Dig did something significant. Also in that episode they had a few people that weren't around the whole season like Nyssa, Sara, Lyla and the league but it was the right amount of people. This time there were so many people and if half of them died on that island I couldn't care less. 

The biggest thing for me is letting the OTA work together to stop the big bad.  Season 2 remains the best because through so much of it, it was them fighting through to the next moment.  They still had the big fight scenes but the in between moments really had weight and urgency. I was so worried about them the whole time.  The only real threat this time are the bombs.  Otherwise it's just standard fights in a non standard place with a hike tossed in.  

12 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I wish Oliver had been the one to say he had regrets not Felicity. Stop making Felicity say apology adjacent things, show!

I agree that she wasn't making an apology or hinting that she should have done things differently, just that she wished their time apart didn't have to have happened. She can regret the unhappiness and the time they missed out on without IMO feeling she'd been wrong.  It actually seems a very Felicity type emotion to me.  

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

During the flashback, just before Oliver shot the arrow to light the pyre that got him saved, he put on a wig of long hair.  Why?  Was this to make it look like he'd been stuck on the island for five years?  Wouldn't this wig have noticed right away when he was checked out at a hospital upon his return to Star(ling) City?

 

I assume he'd ask to use a scissor or knife to even out his hair  or maybe shorten his beard while still on the boat, then find a spot of privacy to pretend to do it so he could just toss the wig in the ocean.  Also in the pilot episode, the Breaking News segment that happened before he ever got home said five days ago he'd been found.  But I'm not sure if he'd actually made it back to Starling City that fast.  Still, I think the only explanation for his totally healed burns are the magic herbs, lol.   

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was the effects of the Mirikuru(sp?) that made Slade crazy. And like he told Oliver, it was all out of his system.

 

 I just wish the show had ever suggested that the Mirikuru could still be affecting him even thought the physical symptoms wore off immediately.  In season three, Slade claimed his hatred had nothing to do with the Mirikuru.  I wish just the idea that maybe Slade was still affected had been put out there, even if it was dismissed.  Same with the explanation why Roy was back to normal so fast.  It's believable enough, it just was never even suggested.  So we got Slade being this remorseful guy that has found his zen and that was great except that it also felt like a cheap light switch/retcon.  

On a more positive note, when I rewatched, I loved Slade's first scenes with Oliver.  Manu's antics have bugged me, but dude can emote.  The remorse and sorrow for the past just oozed out of his pores.    

 

9 hours ago, Chaser said:

I'm rather annoyed with the two 'milestone' episodes this season. 5x23 with Oliver and his son and 5x08 with its sidelining of the characters and relationships developed to play a weird what if based off of the pilot. 

Can we focus on the characters who made Oliver who he is today for these episodes please?

Yep, the focus was on "full circle" which brought Arrow back to it's early days before IMO it actually became the show i love.  They were so busy tying back to their start, they didn't give the rest of the series enough props.   

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

I figure Oliver had been getting regular briefings on Slade's situation from Lyla/ARGUS.  He knew the Mirakuru was gone and he probably knew that Slade's psychosis had abated.  On the other hand, Oliver knew he was still the guy who'd taken Slade's eye, stuffed him in a secret prison and allowed the death of Shado.  He probably expected to have to get through Slade's anger at him.  He also probably expected to use the USB drive (which was certainly encrypted/password protected) to bargain for Slade's help.  To his surprise he met a man far more at peace than he expected and wound up giving Slade the drive as a gift rather than using it as a bargaining chip.

Again, great fanwanking, but this is the kind of stuff that should have been said, not guessed at.  

Quote

The spoilers for the episode said that Diggle and Felicity will play significant roles helping Oliver in the episode. WTH?  Did either of them do anything more than Curtis (for Felicity) or Dinah, Curtis or any other fighter (for Diggle)?

Felicity at least got to have a few nice conversations.  So she had that over the rest of the team.  And she got to be the one that kept communicating with Oliver.  Diggle didn't even get that. He got to be part of the big fight and that's it.  

  I seriously started wondering if they mixed up Diggle and Digger Harkness.  

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 

Roy was under the influence of Mirakuru for a handful of weeks.  Slade was under it for five  years.  I would be surprised if it didn't change his brain patterns permanently.  Several drugs do.

 

Yeah but if it messed up his brain permanently he wouldn't have regained his sanity just in time to help Oliver when coincidentally he needed his help.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ra's also studied Oliver's life and to him Olicity was something he could use to show off his power.  He could play the magnanimous ruler, graciously allowing them their last moment together.  That's how little their love and free will mattered.  He could let them have that taste without if threatening any of his plans.

I don't know.  I'm probably in the minority with this, but I tend to give Ra's more credit than that.  He seemed to be a pretty cool, put together dude on Legends of Tomorrow.  By the time of Arrow, figure continued exposure to the Lazarus Pit had really left its mark, but even so, he seemed to be a guy who tried to be as decent in any given situation as that situation allowed him to be.  Of all the villains, Ra's was the only one I kind of liked.  He was the only where I really wished something could have been worked out, especially since his death meant Oliver giving the LoA over to Malcolm Merlyn, selfish shitheel that he was (and probably still is)

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think the villains are shippers so much as they have studied their opponent and they know how much Felicity means to him so they spend time thinking about their relationship.  

Slade tried to kill her and continued to taunt Oliver about her so I have to imagine that as he lost the crazy, he wondered how it all turned out.  And if we accept that he did love Shado and valued that love, then if he started thinking fondly of Oliver again, then wanting it to have worked out for Oliver and Felicity would make sense.  I liked him ribbing Oliver about not getting it right but he also knew it wasn't over with Felicity.  And hey, they were doing therapy about everything else, lol.

Ra's also studied Oliver's life and to him Olicity was something he could use to show off his power.  He could play the magnanimous ruler, graciously allowing them their last moment together.  That's how little their love and free will mattered.  He could let them have that taste without if threatening any of his plans.  

And if of course with Chase, she was just there as a way to hurt and threaten Oliver.  I am curious to know if he's always known that Felicity was his love or if he was fooled at all by Susan.  

 

hehe Reformed non crazy Slade is definitely a shipper! You can't tell convince me otherwise! =P 

I've got this hilarious image of him wheedling his way to the wedding reception, offering Ms Smoak (or Mrs Queen if she changes her name) his congratulations while she gives him a dirty look and demands Oliver explain why/how Slade wrangled an invite! 

I think it was @johntfs who said Chase left Oliver in a better situation romance wise. So did he purposely try to fix Olicity so that he could shoot himself dramatically in the head and have his last word be "Felicity" to taunt Oliver (because he's 184933843847 steps ahead) or did he get confused and accidentally got them together again.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

So did he purposely try to fix Olicity so that he could shoot himself dramatically in the head and have his last word be "Felicity" to taunt Oliver (because he's 184933843847 steps ahead) or did he get confused and accidentally got them together again.

Chase arranged for Oliver to murder Felicity's boyfriend.  I can't see how he'd think that would cause them to get back together.  His whole plan hinged on manipulating Oliver into doing things that would hurt and drive away all the people in his life, leaving him an isolated, broken man.

My point was how funny it was that Chase's super-involved 10 steps ahead plan backfired pretty spectacularly on every level and wound up leaving Oliver psychologically healthier, at a 70% approval rating as mayor, regaining powerful allies and clearing the way to soulmates Oliver and Felicity getting back together again.

Edited May 26, 2017 by johntfs

[Mellowyellow]

Did he know she was Oliver’s soul mate then?

Cuz Felicity immediately absolved Oliver for Mayo's death. 

Or did he think they had your run of the mill love story and she'd rage at Oliver after the Mayo incident?

[Jediknight]

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, maybe because Slade was under the effects of Mirakuru longer, it just took longer to wear off? Roy was only on the drug for a little while, but Slade was under the effects for many years. 

Not that the show thought about this in any way. They're the ones who had Roy electrocuted and then not seen again that episode. 

I think Roy didn't take as much as Slade, so it would leave his system quicker.

[johntfs]

14 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did he know she was Oliver’s soul mate then?

Cuz Felicity immediately absolved Oliver for Mayo's death. 

Or did he think they had your run of the mill love story and she'd rage at Oliver after the Mayo incident?

I think Chase just completely underestimated Felicity's ability to see through his bullshit manipulations.

[tv echo]

I think that Diggle lost screen time in the finale because Slade Wilson got the bromance role and giver-of-advice scenes with Oliver that would normally go to Diggle. But Slade was also needed for the fake "sudden but inevitable betrayal" role.

Edited May 26, 2017 by tv echo

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm glad that I've not known about Bennett's behavior on social media after he left the show-it has allowed me to enjoy his returns. And I'd like to stay in the dark, thankyouverramooch. Unless he's committed heinous crimes.

That said, I didn't pay much attention to how/why he was back to normal, more or less. ??

[leopardprint]

The more I think about it the more I really dislike them bringing back Slade as Wisestroke. 

I understand the parallel they are setting up. Slade wanted revenge on Oliver for "killing" Shado like Chase wants revenge on Oliver for killing his father. Oliver is also paralleled to Chase because Slade killed his mother but he's working with him and taking advice from him and trusting him. I also understand that Slade helped make Oliver a hero (oh but what about Shado?) but come on now when he killed Oliver's mom, he also majorly traumatized Thea. And the whole episode also was about Oliver moving past his father's death but his Mother's death was *crickets*. 

Moira Queen deserved better than that. She died to protect her children from this man and it cheapens her death that Oliver not only freed him but is like having deep philosophical conversations with him? And then they have the gall to use her to imbue emotional resonance to that unearned Oliver/Myson moment. 

Beyond Oliver's S5 stupidity, his selfishness has really made me dislike the character. They have treated all the deaths at Oliver's hands like they just happened to him which is not how he was in S1. 

Moving on, one of the reviews said that 523 ending felt like a mid season finale and I really agree with that. This worries me because there is little about S5 I want to see taken forward into S6. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Cleanqueen]

Not sure what else Oliver could have done to save and protect his son. He might've been just a sperm donor but it was still his son and he had to do all he could to save him. Moira would've surely done the same as she had in the past. So Moira would've supported Oliver working with a man that killed his own mother to protect and save his own son. 

[bijoux]

Oh, yay. It's been giffed.

Source

[leopardprint]

28 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

 

Not sure what else Oliver could have done to save and protect his son. He might've been just a sperm donor but it was still his son and he had to do all he could to save him. Moira would've surely done the same as she had in the past. So Moira would've supported Oliver working with a man that killed his own mother to protect and save his own son. 

 

Working with Slade isn't so much the issue, desperate measures and all that. It was stopping in the middle of the super urgent myson rescue to have a philosophical discussion about guilt and working on forgiving yourself when he killed dude's mother that didn't sit well with me. They do this so much though I guess I should be used to it, Merlyn giving parenting advice, Slade giving advice about dead parents. 

They did keep mentioning it so its not like they forgot it but the conversation happened after those gifs and the Thea moment. 

#1 Internet Moira Queen Stan 

Edited May 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Cleanqueen]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Oh, yay. It's been giffed.

Source

I love the new healthy married couple they're having. 

[statsgirl]

Felicity: It's complicated.

Samantha: I saw that kiss.  Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

You know why it's complicated?  It's because you forced Oliver to lie to Felicity, beeyotch, and now she doesn't trust him any more. So stop pretending you give a damn about Felicity.

11 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Yeah but if it messed up his brain permanently he wouldn't have regained his sanity just in time to help Oliver when coincidentally he needed his help.

Yeah, this is a TV show so permanently is not going to happen unless it fits the narrative.  I was just reading about drugs that permanently affect the brain even after you stop taking them.

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

Not sure what else Oliver could have done to save and protect his son. He might've been just a sperm donor but it was still his son and he had to do all he could to save him. Moira would've surely done the same as she had in the past. So Moira would've supported Oliver working with a man that killed his own mother to protect and save his own son. 

I think SA did a very good job on the boat with Chase and Myson.  I really bought that Oliver genuinely cared for the spawn.  The problem is that I didn't, and still don't, and so the whole premise of the episodes, that Oliver is so desperate to save this person that is so valuable that he's willing to let everyone else in his life take their own chances, fell flat.

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I can't help but think that considering MG hasn't been quiet about who's a series regular next year that they could've shown us in the finale that certain characters survive (aka everyone we know is going to be around next season), but still kept Oliver in the dark so he could still think everyone could be dead, could have still ended the same way, but they wouldn't be trying to pretend that there were all these possible deaths all summer. Sure, not everyone is on social media, but I think even the most casual of viewers have a general idea of who's safe. 

Would help with cons like HVFF and SDCC and maybe would've helped with the fact that whenever Myson shows up, it seems like no one else matters.