S34.E06: Vote Early, Vote Often

[Superpole2000]

30 minutes ago, seasick said:

I was sure Sandra was going to rip Tai--tales of flipping and big mouths or whatever. She didn't.   Then  Tai himself  exposes what a liability he is --and even calls out/.actually *whispers!*..to Sandra and Varner..and then to all.. Ozzy's name.!  

Now no one will convince me that they left some sort of blindside narrative in Tai's hands to put out there.  he is too addle-brained to keep anything straight like that.   So he appears to collude with Varner and Sandra..then full-on calls out Ozzy................................but somehow he doesn't think he needs to play an idol after that and he doesn't.   And they indeed vote Sandra.  

I'm assuming TC went on for awhile and the editing is getting sloppier and less cohesive. Unless I missed something it made little sense to me. I am open to whatever I mighta missed in that if someone can make sense of it for me.

I agree that there must have been more to the story than we saw. Not even Tai would have felt confident enough to keep both idols pocketed if the tribal council had been exactly as we saw. That said, I am okay with this. It helps build drama for TV to have a bit of a veil over proceedings. Similarly, I've always wanted 1-2 episodes per season to be shown from the blindside victim's point of view, with a flashback after the vote reveal to see how it all went down. I guess the editors feel more comfortable just mucking around with the tribal council footage instead.

[Wandering Snark]

9 hours ago, RescueMom said:

Also, was it just me, or does Sarah have a ridiculously beautifully fit, athletic body? I didn't really notice before this episode, but there was a shot of her in a bikini in one of the challenges that made me think, "Damn girl, nice work!!"

There was a shot of her before Probst announced the Challenge and she was the only female already in her bikini, not shorts and a top like everyone else... and yeah, duly noted.

9 hours ago, laurakaye said:

They are coming dangerously close to jumping the shark, and that makes me sad.  Between idols falling out of the sky, Redexemption Island/Yacht, and the dropping of buffs every other day, they seem to be pulling every single twist out of the hat.  I can live with that, provided that this show - PLEASE - gets back to its roots next season.  No returning players, no islands, second chances, or hell - no idols.  This season is a showcase for all of the beloved and not so beloved people who've played before and helped to make the show so damn successful (34 seasons??  I mean, that's freaking awesome).  But for me to stay madly in love with this show, I can't help but think that it really needs to go back to the drawing board and highlight the things that made it such a success in the first place.

It's all a classic case of 'less is more', the more wacky hijynx abound the more the whole thing starts getting sketchy.

I can hear Tim Gunn telling the producers they need to be able to 'edit themselves' and only do, say, one twist per show. They are definitely being too 'clever' for their own good this season and it doesn't seem to be trending toward anything but more to come.

[walnutqueen]

I want the names of the Presidents and Prime Ministers Debbie has met, and the dates she met them.  Because if anyone plotted the timeline of her "experiences", they'd realize she's 152 years old (likely) or a vampire (even more likely), or a fucking liar who lies (winner, winner, chicken dinner).

There is only one QUEEN in my world - her name is Elizabeth. And she's been at it longer than you've been alive, Sandra. STFU and go away now.

[Rachel RSL]

2 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Well, now Sandra can go back to working at Target.

Pretty sure she works for a law firm. Unless I'm just not getting the joke?

[pamplemousse]

I guess because she wears a red shirt a lot?

Sandra in the Survivor universe is the Queen. She's a woman and has won twice, what other person who has been on the show can claim to have done that? I don't recall her saying she was the Queen of the whole world. I feel like most of the time when Sandra is bombasting, it's rather tongue-in-cheek and pretty funny. Tyson was kind of the same way although I think he actually did believe most of his own hype & delusions of grandeur.

Edited April 6, 2017 by pamplemousse

[Rachel RSL]

3 minutes ago, pamplemousse said:

I guess because she wears a red shirt a lot?

Ah, thank you!

[piequinn35]

Yeah she's the queen of the survivor universe, IMO, I don't want returning winners, but they do return because producers wanted them to return, anyways, I would have wanted Tony and Sandra to be here longer for entertainment factor but won't make it to final 3.

Edited April 6, 2017 by piequinn35
always bad in grammar

[AZChristian]

6 hours ago, Sugar said:

After the tribe swap, when Probst announced Debbie's trip to Exhile, she turned to start walking and because of the angle, it looked like she was about to walk right into the ocean. For a second, I thought Debbie was just going to be like, "I don't need a boat, Jeff - I'll swim there myself. I swam the English Channel when I was 9, and I won a bronze in the 100m backstroke back in Sydney. ". And because it's Debbie, I wouldn't have been shocked if that actually had happened.

Also, even though I think Cochran's an overrated dork, I admire him for not making a face or recoiling when Debbie lunged at him and wouldn't let go. She must have smelled pretty terrible by that point.

Nah - she'd have walked on the water.  She's that good.

[pamplemousse]

I just wanted Sandra to be in the game long enough to be on the same tribe with Debbie -- her facial reactions alone would've been priceless. And for her to have eventually been on the same tribe with Cirie. And for her to make jury so she could ask some truly hilarious and biting questions.

Oh, who am I kidding? I wanted her to win the whole thing again, for a third time.

[Maggie Mae]

Couple of observations..Probst never said Exile ISLAND. He only said Exile. Was Debbie allowed to shower on that boat? If yes, wouldn't that be a giveaway when she returned. I couldn't tell if she looked cleaner at Tribal. I was also going to add that if she told her tribe, they wouldn't believe her (but someone beat me to that comment). She is delusional after all. So if she tells, they think she's making up and if she doesn't and someone else goes, she'll be ostracized for not telling.  Tai, I love you but you're a crazy fool. 

[ICantDoThatDave]

I'm a little confused about the idea that Sandra is a mastermind.  I watch Survivor most of the time it's on, but I don't remember Sandra's first win, fwiw.  I do remember Heroes s. Villains, though.  I could be completely wrong, but from what I remember of her HvV season she spent almost all of her time post-merge trying & failing to get a group of people, any group of people, to vote out Russell, because she hated him.  Over & over she tried to vote out Russell.

But the only reason she won was that she was in the Final Three against Russell (& Parvati, who carried Russell's stink).  If she'd ever once succeeded in her many failed attempts to get Russell out, I don't thing she'd have won.  Am I remembering that whole series of events wrong?  Didn't she win because all her plans failed?

FWIW I'm enjoying this season a ton.  I think I'm rooting for Andrea at this point.

[Maverick]

 This is the episode that should have been titled "Dirty Deeds".  #youdon'tknowwherethatidolhasbeenjeff

[ratgirlagogo]

4 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

While it's nice to think production rigged it for Debbie to have a relaxing day to figure out if she was bonkers or not.... can't happen when you are picking random packs out of a tray and they all look alike.

Also, if I were a producer and I were rigging the pick to be Debbie, she would never have spent the day with Cochran.   I would have made damn sure it was either Coach Dragon Slayer Wade or Special Agent Droopy Drawers Shepard.

Edited April 7, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[backformore]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Pretty sure she works for a law firm. Unless I'm just not getting the joke?

Sandra was wearing the Target employee uniform - tan pants, red polo-style shirt.

[Rachel RSL]

48 minutes ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

 Didn't she win because all her plans failed?

 

Nope. She won because of her social game and because she read that jury perfectly. If she wasn't sitting next to Russell, she still would have won.

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

Sandra in the Survivor universe is the Queen. She's a woman and has won twice, what other person who has been on the show can claim to have done that? I don't recall her saying she was the Queen of the whole world. I feel like most of the time when Sandra is bombasting, it's rather tongue-in-cheek and pretty funny.

Yeah, I'm surprised this bothers people because it's obviously tongue-in-cheek. The first time she said it was at the HvV reunion and it was to poke fun at Russell. He was constantly saying, "this is my island, and I am the King!" so when Sandra beat him, Jeff asked her something like, "so if you beat the King, then ...?" and she very confidently and matter-of-factly stated, "I am the Queen." Someone also gave her a tiara to wear during the reunion, and it was fun to watch Russell sit there and seethe over the whole thing.

Edited April 7, 2017 by fishcakes

[spiderpig]

I was binge watching, so it may have been another episode, but I absolutely hated Sandra's attitude toward the goats.  She was hungry.  She'd prepare and eat it, but she wouldn't kill it.

Respect the food, Ms. Pooh Face.  Do you expect someone else to slaughter an animal you're indifferent to so you don't have to?  (Wo)Man up, if it's that important to YOU, and do it yourself.

Not that I'd watch.  Goats are so cute.

I never liked her before, but her sulky little attitude really ticked me off this time.  Goat Justice Prevails!!!  Buh-bye!

[walnutqueen]

41 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Yeah, I'm surprised this bothers people because it's obviously tongue-in-cheek.

Her tongue has been stuck in her cheek far too often to be amusing.  I'm ever so glad I won't be subjected to her self proclamations again.

[Rachel RSL]

49 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Respect the food, Ms. Pooh Face.  Do you expect someone else to slaughter an animal you're indifferent to so you don't have to?  (Wo)Man up, if it's that important to YOU, and do it yourself.

Ok but isn't killing an animal "humanely" respecting the food? She said she would do all the preparing but she didn't know how to kill it properly so she asked someone else to do it.  Isn't that exactly what respecting the food is? In any case, not only did the rest of the tribe kill and eat a goat, they did it voluntarily on their own when Sandra was away from camp doing a confessional. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[cuphead]

If I were Debbie, I would have chosen the fake idol kit, and returned to camp with it around my neck.

To the best of her new tribemates' knowledge, she went to Exile Island, a most miserable place that has been known to break people down.  However, they also know that there may be hidden idols at Exile Island, so the possibility of returning with an idol is out there.

But what won't you find on Exile Island?

Materials to make one

(unless a member of the tribe is really, really, stupid and would believe that a smiley stick is the best a multi-million production value show can do for something as important as an Immunity Idol)

So...Debbie can conceivably waltz back into camp and no one would have any reason to doubt her. If she was really smart, she could say that it's a Tyler Perry idol and Tai could attest to it because the idols he has found look the same.  Plus, she was at the Tribal Council where Tai used the idol, so she knows what it looks like too.  Either way, it's guaranteed protection for a long time.

But enough about Debbie...

Long live the Queen!

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

There was a shot of her before Probst announced the Challenge and she was the only female already in her bikini, not shorts and a top like everyone else... and yeah, duly noted.

It's all a classic case of 'less is more', the more wacky hijynx abound the more the whole thing starts getting sketchy.

I can hear Tim Gunn telling the producers they need to be able to 'edit themselves' and only do, say, one twist per show. They are definitely being too 'clever' for their own good this season and it doesn't seem to be trending toward anything but more to come.

Sarah strikes me like there is something about her that she wants to keep secret. She never displays any hint of sexuality. Not for men. Not for women.

Most people will say something about a significant other or they will say something nice about someone attractive or something bad about someone repulsive. But it seems to me she is just keeping an entire compartment about herself hidden.

Of course, she has that right. For certain. If she doesn't want to talk about romance to any degree, it is her right. Many people choose to do that. But not that many that it's a little unusual in the game of Survivor. I'm just nosey I suppose. I wonder what is going on with this lady. After all, the only people she talks about are the criminals she arrests. There just have to be other people in her life.

Edited April 7, 2017 by MissBluxom

[rose711]

I was binge watching, so it may have been another episode, but I absolutely hated Sandra's attitude toward the goats.  She was hungry.  She'd prepare and eat it, but she wouldn't kill it.

Respect the food, Ms. Pooh Face.  Do you expect someone else to slaughter an animal you're indifferent to so you don't have to?  (Wo)Man up, if it's that important to YOU, and do it yourself.

Not that I'd watch.  Goats are so cute.

I never liked her before, but her sulky little attitude really ticked me off this time.  Goat Justice Prevails!!!  Buh-bye!

You know they ended up killing the baby goat and eating it.

[rose711]

  6 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

There was a shot of her before Probst announced the Challenge and she was the only female already in her bikini, not shorts and a top like everyone else... and yeah, duly noted.

It's all a classic case of 'less is more', the more wacky hijynx abound the more the whole thing starts getting sketchy.

I can hear Tim Gunn telling the producers they need to be able to 'edit themselves' and only do, say, one twist per show. They are definitely being too 'clever' for their own good this season and it doesn't seem to be trending toward anything but more to come.

Sarah strikes me like there is something about her that she wants to keep secret. She never displays any hint of sexuality. Not for men. Not for women.

Most people will say something about a significant other or they will say something nice about someone attractive or something bad about someone repulsive. But it seems to me she is just keeping an entire compartment about herself hidden.

Of course, she has that right. For certain. If she doesn't want to talk about romance to any degree, it is her right. Many people choose to do that. But not that many that it's a little unusual in the game of Survivor. I'm just nosey I suppose. I wonder what is going on with this lady. After all, the only people she talks about are the criminals she arrests. There just have to be other people in her life.

She's married with a young child. She was pregnant at the Cagayan finale.
She may be guarded from being a cop.

[rose711]

I was binge watching, so it may have been another episode, but I absolutely hated Sandra's attitude toward the goats.  She was hungry.  She'd prepare and eat it, but she wouldn't kill it.

Respect the food, Ms. Pooh Face.  Do you expect someone else to slaughter an animal you're indifferent to so you don't have to?  (Wo)Man up, if it's that important to YOU, and do it yourself.

Not that I'd watch.  Goats are so cute.

I never liked her before, but her sulky little attitude really ticked me off this time.  Goat Justice Prevails!!!  Buh-bye!

Is it humane to attempt to kill an animal when you don't know how or have tools?

[rose711]

  2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Yeah, I'm surprised this bothers people because it's obviously tongue-in-cheek.

Her tongue has been stuck in her cheek far too often to be amusing.  I'm ever so glad I won't be subjected to her self proclamations again.

The whole Queen thing started because Parvati called herself the Queen after she won before she came back and lost to Sandra.
Parvati made many remarks about other players. So when Sandra won the second time she was taking over what Parvarti had started.

[rose711]

I'm a little confused about the idea that Sandra is a mastermind.  I watch Survivor most of the time it's on, but I don't remember Sandra's first win, fwiw.  I do remember Heroes s. Villains, though.  I could be completely wrong, but from what I remember of her HvV season she spent almost all of her time post-merge trying & failing to get a group of people, any group of people, to vote out Russell, because she hated him.  Over & over she tried to vote out Russell.

But the only reason she won was that she was in the Final Three against Russell (& Parvati, who carried Russell's stink).  If she'd ever once succeeded in her many failed attempts to get Russell out, I don't thing she'd have won.  Am I remembering that whole series of events wrong?  Didn't she win because all her plans failed?

FWIW I'm enjoying this season a ton.  I think I'm rooting for Andrea at this point.

Yes. You are wrong.

[spiderpig]

7 minutes ago, rose711 said:

You know they ended up killing the baby goat and eating it.

I'm done with this show.  Back to The Walking Dead.

[meep.meep]

Is that the only choice?  I don't want to watch Negan take care of the goats.

[green]

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Yeah, I'm surprised this bothers people because it's obviously tongue-in-cheek. The first time she said it was at the HvV reunion and it was to poke fun at Russell. He was constantly saying, "this is my island, and I am the King!" so when Sandra beat him, Jeff asked her something like, "so if you beat the King, then ...?" and she very confidently and matter-of-factly stated, "I am the Queen." Someone also gave her a tiara to wear during the reunion, and it was fun to watch Russell sit there and seethe over the whole thing.

Yeah.  I've been amused this whole time here where some posters actual thought she was being smug or arrogant and didn't get her cool, dry humor what to speak of the history behind it.

And what an amazing job to last this long when she was the number one target coming in.  And a great try against impossible odds at the end.  She was The Queen, she is The Queen, she will always be The Queen.

And one that returned to work after both her wins.  And she didn't allow her kids to go out and use it for expensive toys like a fancy sport car etc which by now would be heading to the junk yard.  She instead built up enough money that her kids and their kids can have a decent life materially without losing their work ethic.  Add that to all the years she served in the military and her husband still serving and she is The Queen in real life too.  Good peeps.

All joy went out of the show after this episode.  I just hope clueless Tai (no it isn't an act, he is a nice guy trying to play Lord of the Flies and failing utterly) actually manages to accidentally take out Ozzy and Zeke with his paranoid chaos and that Circe somehow makes it to the end.

Also I was bored to tears with "the Debbie and boring former winner and current CBS lame comedy writer on the boat" segment that seemed to go on for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.  What a total waste of time.  I'd rather watch Tai find five more idols in a row before being subjected to that boredom again.

And Debbie?  Presidents and Prime Ministers?  However did Trump fail to name you to his cabinet as Secretary of Everything?  (Maybe if you were a fellow male he would have).

Edited April 7, 2017 by green

[SlackerInc]

On 4/6/2017 at 1:49 AM, KimberStormer said:

Seeing Sandra go is so sad, but it's the good kind of sad, like one of those 80s movies where they must release the dinosaur/alien/Bigfoot/Mogwai back to its home, because it is not meant for this ugly human world, but their lives have all been changed by it.  She played a hell of a game, in what must be considered the most impossible circumstances in Survivor history.  Every minute she was there was a minor miracle.  HAIL TO THE QUEEN!

When Debbie arrived at Club Exile I was smiling, when Cochran showed up I was giggling, it was all just so ridiculous.  The people I was worried about are all gone or (in Sandra's case) had proved any haters wrong (including myself, in a sense), so why not just enjoy whatever bullshit they come up with.  (There's still Cirie...but I don't have to worry about her until she gets a half-second of screentime, and this episode wasn't it.)  I actually thought Debbie and Cochran was a bizarre kind of perfect match; it's hard to imagine any other combination with either of them working.  Debbie goes to Exile and meets....Boston Rob!  Who has no reason to hide his total disdain, and she is either dismissive or sycophantic, and nobody goes home happy.  Cochran comes to Exile to find...Ozzy!  And it's super awkward as he just apologizes lamely and Ozzy stiffly smiles with transparently fake politeness and glares at the producers when the cameras aren't on because why did they do this to him.  But Cochran has exactly the right kind of amused sympathy for Debbie, and earnest desire to help her, and he is exactly the sort of person Debbie can admire without feeling threatened by.  The whole thing was ludicrous, but it worked out way better than it could have. 

This is all completely spot on.  I especially laughed at the picture you painted of Cochran (of whom I'm a big fan) and Ozzy.

[Ellee]

5 hours ago, rose711 said:

You know they ended up killing the baby goat and eating it.

How do you know they ended up killing it?  Did I miss something?

[LizBug]

Is whispering to each other going to be standard procedure at tribal council from now on?  Kinda bugs me that it goes on but I don't see Jeff stopping it because it adds to the overall chaos and paranoia.

[Lamb18]

1 hour ago, DallasGypsy said:

Is whispering to each other going to be standard procedure at tribal council from now on?  Kinda bugs me that it goes on but I don't see Jeff stopping it because it adds to the overall chaos and paranoia.

I think it would have to stop once there's a jury.  We can hear what people are saying because of the microphones, but the jury wouldn't be able to hear.

Like Ellee, I'm wondering how people know that goats were killed. Was there a secret scene or something on a contestant's social media?

Crude alert! When I saw Tai splashing those boards, my first thought was that it was going to look like someone peed on them.

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, Ellee said:

8 hours ago, rose711 said:

You know they ended up killing the baby goat and eating it.

How do you know they ended up killing it?  Did I miss something?

It wasn't the baby or the mother goat that we saw on the show, but they did kill and eat another goat. In Sandra's post-show interviews, she said they let the mother and baby go, and the next day when she was away from camp filming a confessional, the rest of the tribe caught another goat and killed it. This wasn't included in the show, but there are scenes of them eating it. It wasn't just Sandra who wanted to kill a goat; they all wanted to do it, and apparently the others did do it. So it's unfortunate that they made her look like the bloodthirsty one, when she's the only one who had literally nothing to do with it.

This is from her EW interview:

Quote

On what happened out there that we did not see on TV:

“I would have to say the whole goat situation, the way it went down. First of all, when we go to this new Nuku tribe, J.T. takes us to this area where there’s a trap already set up to catch the goats before we even stepped foot on that island. And the goats are actually on the other aide of this big rock by where the water well is. So anyway, he starts talking about the goats and saying they can get really close up on these goats. I never said, ‘Go get me a goat or else!’ Because I really took a hit for that one.

“And then we catch the goats. Well, they caught the goats. And we actually kept the goats for overnight and they were like “Baaaaaa…” all night long. And so the mom, she wasn’t eating the food we were giving her. She wasn’t drinking the water. She wasn’t letting the baby nurse. And the baby was tied up too right next to her. J.T. made a rope. And then they were getting tangled around each other or the tree. So then the next day is when we decided, ‘Okay, let’s get rid of them.’ Mind you, I’m not a farmer. I’m not the guy who said, ‘Well, guys, we have to eat the baby first because it’s not nourishing and it will die, and the meat is tender.’ You know, like, ‘The meat is more tender on the baby than the mama so the baby has to go first.’ I’m just repeating everything I’m hearing, and then they just catch me off guard, you know?

“But, I would have to say that the next episode when you got to see us eating these big pieces of meat? That is not fish and that is not chicken. And that’s the last I’m going to say about that. And I didn’t have nothing to do with it because I was at a confessional! I come back to camp and there it is and after I saw that episode I was like, ‘Lord I’m going to take the s— for that one too.’”

Edited April 7, 2017 by fishcakes

[legaleagle53]

Tai is an idiot.  That is all.

[kikaha]

12 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

I'm a little confused about the idea that Sandra is a mastermind.  I watch Survivor most of the time it's on, but I don't remember Sandra's first win, fwiw.  I do remember Heroes s. Villains, though.  I could be completely wrong, but from what I remember of her HvV season she spent almost all of her time post-merge trying & failing to get a group of people, any group of people, to vote out Russell, because she hated him.  Over & over she tried to vote out Russell.

But the only reason she won was that she was in the Final Three against Russell (& Parvati, who carried Russell's stink).  If she'd ever once succeeded in her many failed attempts to get Russell out, I don't thing she'd have won.  Am I remembering that whole series of events wrong?  Didn't she win because all her plans failed?

I think you are completely right.  She rarely had control of her own fate that season, was a tossup (with her bestie Courtney) to get booted before merge, and no way IMO should have become Survivor's first two-time winner -- Parv should have.  

[MisterBluxom]

8 hours ago, rose711 said:

Is it humane to attempt to kill an animal when you don't know how or have tools?

Many people believe it's not humane to kill animals at all since it's unnecessary.

But I believe that when someone is really hungry, they will do anything to survive and I think that is only understandable. After all, would you chose to starve so that you wouldn't have to kill an animal?

Edited April 7, 2017 by MissBluxom

[cooksdelight]

11 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

After all, would you chose to starve so that you wouldn't have to kill an animal?

When I'm on a game show and I know my immediate needs will be taken care of by medical professionals, if necessary, no.... I wouldn't kill an animal like a goat. Fish, snails, or chickens given to me by production... yes. 

 

18 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Tai is an idiot.  That is all.

See my earlier hashtag for him. Couldn't agree more. Even Tai admitted he's not very smart.

[How Bout That]

Quote

I don't think this is a factor at all anymore. It's all about "The Evolution of Strategy" and all that nonsense. (When Zeke did that shout-out in his first season, I thought my eyes were going to roll out of my head and across the floor.)

I'm really sick of the novelties and the show trying to stay clever.

I miss the grit and determination, as opposed to cheap sneakiness. 

So, you missed the last two seasons? Where people were practically dropping dead and the castaways had to be evacuated due to a hurricane.

[How Bout That]

Quote

But the only reason she won was that she was in the Final Three against Russell (& Parvati, who carried Russell's stink).  

If you saw the season, you know that Parvati was not working with Russell, though Russell was trying to work with her. Russell gave her an idol and she used it to preserve her voting alliance (which included Sandra and did not include Russell). Parvati also made the unprecedented move of playing two idols at a tribal council, neither of which were for herself and she also won multiple individual challenges. The jury didn't see all that; they voted for whoever else was left. Unfortunately that was Sandra.

[Whimsy]

Reminder. This is the thread to talk about THIS episode. You all are veering off topic. 

[AZChristian]

Never before have I stood up and sung a medley of "The Hallelujah Chorus" and "Ding, Dong the Wicked Witch is Dead" at the end of a Survivor episode.

[NutMeg]

I had to watch the episode a day late. It turns out that my dvd really didn't want me to see it, so I had to find another way. The weirdest thing is that only Survivor wouldn't play, the other stuff on it play perfectly. I think my dvd is just a huge Sandra fan. Or really knows me and guessed I was going to be bummed by the ending.

And yes, I am, and I'm going to miss her. Still, it was nice that she was sent off with the Survivor equivalent of a standing ovation. More than nice, actually. I was great that her way of thinking and playing was shown more this season - take that, you Sandra doubters :D - although I found it pretty obvious in her two previous wins too, despite the time spent on big characters, but this time it was really highlighted in bright neon colors.

Otherwise... Tai - is exhausting and I cannot believe players are willing to keep him around when he is so unpredictable. He may not be as toxic as Abi Maria, but his unpredictability makes him dangerous to their game. It's like they are all birds, each with their own flight type, which includes how to change flight path if circumstances change, and while they're doing their version of a bird ballet, here comes a bat with a mostly random path (at least to the outside eye). That's an extra challenge that I know I wouldn't want to face if I could avoid it. And of course he finds a second idol, and then a third. :(

I surprisingly didn't mind Debbie's amazing adventure nor Cochran showing up (and I never thought even for a moment that he would join the game). I was thinking while watching that an extra vote was a good choice, but in retrospect a fake idol, if played well, can be very useful too (and Debbie had enough time on the boat to make it very good - in particular because I'm sure she was once a successful artist and that her art was deemed worthy of the best muse). I'm thinking back to Gabon, which I hardy ever think of, because that is the first time I saw a fake idol used convincingly. Of course, Gabon was already on my mind because seeing the luxury awaiting Debbie brought to mind the amazing Sugar Shack :)

But one of the best thing about the floating exile is this imaginary potential connection: (the bolded part but I left a big chunk of the post because I think it's brilliant!)

On 4/6/2017 at 2:49 PM, KimberStormer said:

Seeing Sandra go is so sad, but it's the good kind of sad, like one of those 80s movies where they must release the dinosaur/alien/Bigfoot/Mogwai back to its home, because it is not meant for this ugly human world, but their lives have all been changed by it.  She played a hell of a game, in what must be considered the most impossible circumstances in Survivor history.  Every minute she was there was a minor miracle.  HAIL TO THE QUEEN!

When Debbie arrived at Club Exile I was smiling, when Cochran showed up I was giggling, it was all just so ridiculous.  The people I was worried about are all gone or (in Sandra's case) had proved any haters wrong (including myself, in a sense), so why not just enjoy whatever bullshit they come up with.  (There's still Cirie...but I don't have to worry about her until she gets a half-second of screentime, and this episode wasn't it.)  I actually thought Debbie and Cochran was a bizarre kind of perfect match; it's hard to imagine any other combination with either of them working.  Debbie goes to Exile and meets....Boston Rob!  Who has no reason to hide his total disdain, and she is either dismissive or sycophantic, and nobody goes home happy.  Cochran comes to Exile to find...Ozzy!  And it's super awkward as he just apologizes lamely and Ozzy stiffly smiles with transparently fake politeness and glares at the producers when the cameras aren't on because why did they do this to him.  But Cochran has exactly the right kind of amused sympathy for Debbie, and earnest desire to help her, and he is exactly the sort of person Debbie can admire without feeling threatened by.  The whole thing was ludicrous, but it worked out way better than it could have.  Extra vote would be a reasonable choice if it wasn't the new Car Curse.  Sorry, but your game is over, Debbie.

I could picture this so well that I'm sure when I think of this season years from now I'll think I had really seen it. The awkwardness, Ozzy's stiff smile, transparently fake politeness and glaring at the producers are now etched in my brain. The Debbie/Boston Rob scenario was very good too, but we already saw it play, with Philip in the role of Debbie - I still laughed at the mental picture. Thank you Kimberstormer, I really needed the laugh after the bittersweet Sandra exit. 

Although, now that Sandra is gone, I feel like I will finally be able to watch the rest of the season without angst.  

[DonitsYum]

Sandra ranks with the best players this game has ever had.  I was impressed last week and this week I was glad she at least gave her best effort to make it through the tribal, rather than just lying down.  I'm also glad that the other players (from their points of view) were able to articulate just how she does it.  Her manner of speaking (at tribal), her calmness, her choice to lay low when other players might obnoxiously advance in that situation and most of all, her skills at observation are what got her to be a two-time winner.  Ozzy was practically hypnotized after that meeting before the tribal.  As proof, here was Cochran, also a good player, schooling Debbie - who is one of the stupidest players ever - on how to play the social game, tone it down, observe more, know when to compliment, etc.. She's like the Pied Piper.

I could have watched her win a 3rd time and be thrilled about it.  She could win 4 more times and I'd be good with it. 

I'm rooting for Zeke or Aubry at this point.  Tai is a goner.

[Hera]

On 06/04/2017 at 1:55 AM, wallflower75 said:

Tai found not one—but TWO idols????  Grrr…if I’m Troyzan watching this at home, I’m grinding my teeth at how easy they made it for Tai (and previously J.T.) to get their idols.

Yes! I wish they had stuck to forcing people to find them during challenges. I'm not generally not one for theories about producer interference, but it's very hard not to feel like that's the case when they change how idols are hidden, seemingly so that people can still find them after the immunity challenge, but before Tribal Council.

On 06/04/2017 at 2:06 AM, Lantern7 said:

And Sandra and Cirie didn't wind up together. Shit. That was my dream, man. Would they have worked together or take each other out immediately? We will never know.

On 06/04/2017 at 6:32 PM, meep.meep said:

I'm bummed that we will never see how Sandra and Cirie would have played together. 

Add me to the list of people who really wanted to see this.

On 06/04/2017 at 2:23 AM, vb68 said:

I feel like people this season were really overlooking that  Sandra is loyal as hell. If she's on your side, she's really on your side. It would have been smart of Ozzy especially to pull her in. She had a bigger target than him. Now he probably has the biggest target in the game.

I was thinking about this and actually, I think the best time to get rid of Sandra is early in the game. She doesn't suck at tribal challenges, but she's not amazing at them and does slow things down if she has to participate in the really physical parts of them. So getting rid of her before the merge means not having to get rid of someone who's more of an asset in challenges (so your tribe is less likely to lose again) and also getting rid of someone who is a strong social threat before she has a chance to do any damage to your own game. She really should have been the first boot and it's a testament to her abilities at this game that she wasn't.

I was pretty sure Ozzy was safe at this most recent Tribal Council because there were 15 people left in the game, about to go down to 14. The merge is at least two more tribal councils away. Tai's performance this week means that his alliance will be gunning for him ahead of Ozzy and possibly even ahead of Varner. I knew Sandra was a goner when Tai didn't play his idol. Clearly the bit where it was obvious that everyone was going to vote for their original targets was left on the editing room floor.

Speaking of Ozzy, I laughed when he, Andrea, and Sarah were talking about Sandra's pitch to them and he said something along the lines of "We have to get her out because I was seriously considering what she was saying." Sadly for Sandra, this tribal swap resulted in her being in the minority on a tribe the majority of the members (Ozzy, Andrea, Sarah, and Zeke) have been together the entire time. There was no way she was going to be able to flip them if they were determined to vote her out, but all credit to her for trying.

Varner might find himself unexpectedly safe, though. Debbie played with Tai in Kaôh Rōng and has been on the same tribe as him the whole game so far. Ozzy, Andrea, and Sarah might want to split them up before dumping Varner, though it might not work, since Tai has two idols no one knows about.

On 06/04/2017 at 5:28 AM, Lantern7 said:

I'm also thinking Cochran was probably at least fifth on the list of people to invite. I mean, he's nice and can be funny, but he's wouldn't be hyped by CBS. And I'm disappointed that Sandra didn't get exiled . . . not to guarantee her place in the game, but because nobody could give her advice.

I was wondering what he would have said if he turned up and Sandra was there. "Well, I'm supposed to offer a friendly ear and maybe some advice, but since it's you, I'll just skip straight to the advantage, unless you want to ask me about people I've played with who are in the game now?"

Edited April 7, 2017 by Hera
adding a word for clarity

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, Hera said:

Speaking of Ozzy, I laughed when he, Andrea, and Sarah were talking about Sandra's pitch to them and he said something along the lines of "We have to get her out because I was seriously considering what she was saying."

YES. And this was before TC too. Where things got crazy with Tai throwing his name out. Ozzy (and crew) definitely showed a lot of restraint. 

[cooksdelight]

Can someone remember... has anyone other than Tai ever gone to a new camp and found an idol based on a clue he was given? That was, for me, the one smart thing the guy did at any time.

[MrsR]

James found two Idols which were in the same place on both camps. But I believe Todd was involved.

Edited April 7, 2017 by MrsR

[Jersey Guy 87]

On 4/6/2017 at 0:57 AM, MissBluxom said:

I'm curious what people think of Debbie's decision to take the Extra Vote instead of the Immunity Challenge advantage.

I think it was indicative of her mindset. Taking an extra vote makes her seem more important. But it's rarely enough to change the vote if the rest of your tribe decides to vote you out. On the other hand, an Immunity advantage almost always helps win the IC and if your tribe wins the IC, then you absolutely can't be voted out.

I'm wondering if most people would make the same choice as Debbie. I'm thinking the "Fake Immunity Idol Kit" was just a bad joke.

 

I think it was a bad move.  It hasn't worked out for anyone before and there's no way Debbie has the creative smarts to figure out how to make it work for her.

On 4/6/2017 at 8:46 AM, JudyObscure said:

I'm so with you on this.  It's like the show decided in Season One that since the "Machiavellian" Richard Hatch (barely) beat the gritty Sue Hawk -- thus the game should be played for ever and ever.

 

Hatch beat out Kelly Wigglesworth.  Sue Hawk was gone before that, she delivered the rat and the snake speech at FTC.

And it was the other players who decided it would be played by forming alliances - they saw what worked for Hatch and copied it.

8 hours ago, DallasGypsy said:

Is whispering to each other going to be standard procedure at tribal council from now on?  Kinda bugs me that it goes on but I don't see Jeff stopping it because it adds to the overall chaos and paranoia.

Let's hope not.  It was okay the first time this season but it's already worn out its welcome.

I'm not a fan of Sandra's but I recognize she's good at the game.  She manipulates people very well and found a way to win twice.  I would have been on the "vote Sandra off first vote" bus if I were playing this season, there's no way you let her stick around at all - she'll find a way to keep around another vote, another vote and next thing you know she's sitting up there at FTC and deserves to win.  Get her out as early as you can.

[Superpole2000]

13 hours ago, green said:

Yeah.  I've been amused this whole time here where some posters actual thought she was being smug or arrogant and didn't get her cool, dry humor what to speak of the history behind it.

And what an amazing job to last this long when she was the number one target coming in.  And a great try against impossible odds at the end.  She was The Queen, she is The Queen, she will always be The Queen.

She was being smug and arrogant, especially during the second episode. The irony of that "The Queen" moniker is that queens and kings usually inherit that crown through no doing of their own. I don't think Sandra was THAT lucky, but I do think giving her a royal nickname is actually rather appropriate given how success in this game is generally separated from skill.

I think there are three levels of players: Good, Average, and Bad. Sandra is certainly in the Good category because she understands what's going on as well as anyone else. But it's like a game of cards, where Good players will beat Bad players over the long-run, yet in a small sample size, anyone can beat anyone based on the cards they get. There have been a few Average players (and perhaps one or two Bad players) who have won seasons. There have been many Good players who failed to reach a jury.

This episode reinforced my belief that Zeke and Andrea are Good players. I used to think Ozzy was an Average player (elite at challenges, poor at everything else), but I'm starting to think he has become a Good player too. The problem with him, though, is that everyone can see his obvious challenge skill, which makes it nearly impossible for him to avoid being targeted. All that said, Zeke, Andrea, Ozzy, and Sarah had the upper hand in this vote only because of a random drop your buffs tribal shuffle. That's not skill. The skill they did exhibit was keeping that advantage in the face of Tai's wildcard gameplay.