S01.E07: You Get What You Need

[formerlyfreedom]

Finale!

Quote

After yet another fight, Celeste makes a bold move. Before the school’s long-awaited fall fundraiser, Madeline deals with fallout from her past, while Jane learns who’s really been hurting Amabella at school.

 

[Atlanta]

Dear Reese, Not that you care, but I FF through the Maddy and Joseph scenes. Totally unnecessary and ruins your character. 

[jeansheridan]

A bit rushed but not boring.

[Cardie]

So, Miss Zen Peace and Love knows when you have to shove evil down the stairs! That's the one thing I didn't guess was coming but I found the finale very satisfying, as the women's petty squabbles turn to unity and sisterhood when they all confront the true monstrosity of Perry.  Well done, BLL.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Cardie

[jacksgirl]

I wanted Reese to sing "Moon River".

[mochamajesty]

That was predictable, yet I was still on the edge of my seat.

Good job.

[Primetimer]

The TL;DR is basically that girls rule, boys drool.

View the full article

[stagmania]

Wow. I really loved that, even though nothing surprised me. There was something profoundly moving about seeing this group of women come together to protect each other. 

I'm going to miss this show.

[CleoCaesar]

Well damn! Nice job, show. Yes, it was a tad rushed but they only had an hour and a lot of ground to cover. I thought the lead-up to the climax was very tense and well done. I didn't like it (at all) that the show sped through What Really Happened at warp speed as if it were an afterthought. It would have been more powerful had they played it at a normal pace the whole way through.

Bonnie gets episode MVP.

Loved the final shots of Jane, Madeleine, Renata, Bonnie, Celese and the rugrats playing on the beach.

Edited April 3, 2017 by CleoCaesar

[Irlandesa]

I was on pins and needles throughout most of the episode even if I figured it'd be Perry who died.  The show did a great job of building tension by having Perry discover that Celeste was going to leave him.  They also did a good job with Ed seeming to realize (again?) who Madeline had an affair with and drinking heavily to the point that I thought he was going to do something stupid. 

Having Bonnie be the one to push Perry was a decent twist that I didn't see coming. 

The only thing I wish they hadn't done was having Perry be the rapist if only because the coincidences went a little bit too far with that one.

I loved the beach shots. I love that they all came together. I don't think this needs another season, though.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Irlandesa

[FemmyV]

Nothing brings people together like manslaughter. Even Renata has friends, now!

Nathan did rule the talent show, but true art does not compete

[Bebecat]

I could not read much of the book as the characters were insufferable, so not sure if ending was the same? But I hated the ending in another of this author's books as it was a wishy washy cop-out, so not surprised they pulled the rapist bit out of a hat to tie everything in a bow. If that is whatnhappened here, it was confusing...

would have been more interesting if someone else died though.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Bebecat

[WhosThatGirl]

Well I guess life is all about experiences! Even if the experience is you killing someone.

I appreciate that when Jane told Celeste it was Max who was the bully, there was no fight that Ziggy was wrong.

That reveal.. I had suspected for a little bit but.. damn. Amazing.

I'll miss this show.

[isiscloud]

Wow. That was and wasn't a nailbiter. It seemed a bit foregone that Perry was going to be the one killed even if they were throwing red herrings down on the red carpet left and right. All of those "meaningful hate-filled looks" and the only one that panned out was the one that really should have, with quite a twist.

The detective needs to leave this alone. Go home; you've done your job and now there's one less abuser, rapist, psychopath in the world.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, ladies. You did a great job.

[madam magpie]

My man, cutie barista! Best guy on the show!

Whew...that was stressful, but compelling. Way to go, Bonnie! Getting it done! I love that the five women came together in the clutch and protected one another. That's my experience with women, but so often petty squabbling takes center stage in stories. I really appreciate how this show turned so many cliches around. Loved the juxtaposition of the fight and the ocean. Really well done.

Great touch that Perry went down the caution steps.

Who was watching them at the end, though?

Edited April 3, 2017 by madam magpie

[Kell]

Thought the finale was great -- I was really worried that I was going to go away unsatisfied somehow but I'm not.  I was terrified for Celeste when Perry stalked her phone message from the landlady - omg.  That beating in the beginning of the show was horrifying.

I just KNEW someone was going over that silly yellow tape that has been up all season. LOL  But who?? Anyone could have been pushed accidentally -- I did have a moment when Jane figured out Perry was the rapist when she heard his voice, though I knew it had to be him -- and the girls seemed to realize it from her reaction.

I truly gasped WHOA!  when Bonnie pushed him.  AWESOME!!!

 

I did keep thinking "My god, stop with all the singing, we only have an hour, people!!!"  :D

Edited April 3, 2017 by Kell

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, isiscloud said:

detective needs to leave this alone. Go hom

Can't blame her for hating the lies and cover up however.

[Kell]

Well, I'm gonna miss the show -- I'm going to need a new one. lol

[coleycole6]

That was a such satisfying ending. Bye bye Perry you certainly won't be missed.

I'm glad I decided to watch. I thought about passing on it because I didn't want to get sucked into another show. The acting, music, plot and the way the series was put together was on point.

[woodscommaelle]

I want to delete this show from my memory and watch it all over again from the beginning. 

[Dewey Decimate]

I intended to hit pause on the dvr and get a cup of tea before I got beyond the first few minutes, but damn.... an hour later and I'm still thirsty!

The suspense had my stomach in knots and my lip bit. The bad guy actually gets it? And women come together in the end? Holy shit, this is the feel-good movie of the year. I'm kinda feeling crying-happy.

[archer1267]

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The only thing I wish they hadn't done was having Perry be the rapist if only because the coincidences went a little bit too far with that one.

Maybe someone who read the book knows the answer to this. How did Perry father children who are roughly the same age with two women - was he already married to Celeste when he impregnated Jane (thereby not just a beater, but also a cheater)? Or did he meet Celeste quickly after the night with Jane, have a whirlwind romance with her and then impregnate her with the twins? 

Adam Scott/Ed looked much better clean-shaven.

[madam magpie]

11 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Can't blame her for hating the lies and cover up however.

I can. Sometimes, you need to let things go. There's no better situation than this.

That said, I don't quite understand why they felt they had to lie at all. There was clearly a brutal fight. I doubt Bonnie plotted his demise. She shoved him off a woman he seemed to be trying to kill. The legal system is awful, especially when it comes to domestic violence and rape, but I find it hard to believe a DA would go after Bonnie, or that a good attorney couldn't get her off.

1 minute ago, archer1267 said:

Maybe someone who read the book knows the answer to this. How did Perry father children who are roughly the same age with two women - was he already married to Celeste when he impregnated Jane (thereby not just a beater, but also a cheater)? Or did he meet Celeste quickly after the night with Jane, have a whirlwind romance with her and then impregnate her with the twins? 

He used his penis and his sociopathic tendencies.

[Penman61]

2 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

That said, I don't quite understand why they felt they had to lie at all. There was clearly a brutal fight. I doubt Bonnie plotted his demise. She shoved him off a woman he seemed to be trying to kill. The legal system is awful, especially when it comes to domestic violence and rape, but I find it hard to believe a DA would go after Bonnie, or that a good attorney couldn't get her off.

Agreed, which is why the final shot via binoculars, POV of the investigating cop (which Kelley confirmed in the After The Show segment) was so unnecessary.  This case is going nowhere, even if someone produces a video recording of The Shove.  

Why did Reese think and say Dreamy Barista Guy (DBG) was gay?  Do straight guys use that to keep the MILFs at bay?

[Eliz]

I really loved this show. So well acted.

My one gripe is that for a story that wants to say something about sexual violence, it seems like a weird message that all of it here comes from one guy. It's been nagging at me all week -- ever since last week's episode, it seemed pretty clear that Perry was Jane's attacker and was going to be the one to die (just because the last episode would have to be all the party scene, so there was no story time left for Jane to find some new character). Which -- his death is great, I'm all for it, but the fact that it also resolves Jane's story is way too tidy. For a story that seems to want to make a point about the reality and ubiquity of sexual violence, it's almost like a cop out to have only one man be responsible.

I haven't read Big Little Lies, but I did read one of Liane Moriarty's earlier novels, which also had a domestic violence storyline sort of lurking in the background, and it is also sort of too-neatly handled. Maybe if she has a third novel that addresses the same theme, she'll complicate it enough to my liking? I don't know.

And not to lawyer it too much, but I don't think they had to cover up what Bonnie did. I think shoving Perry off Celeste when he was in the middle of a vicious attack was probably a perfectly justifiable use of force to defend Celeste, even if it did happen to be at the top of some stairs.

That all sounds complainy. But I loved it all so much. Nicole and Reese and Laura are treasures. (If you haven't seen Laura Dern's house, btw, enjoy -- http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/laura-derns-rustic-los-angeles-home-is-a-film-buffs-dream)

[dhilde85]

Why did Celeste have plastic gloves on when she was at the apartment?

[nara]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

Why did Reese think and say Dreamy Barista Guy (DBG) was gay?  Do straight guys use that to keep the MILFs at bay?

My impression was that because he didn't hit on her she assumed he was gay.

Loved this episode, especially Ed's song as a backdrop to the scene. I really thought Celeste was a goner several times. Felt a little sorry for Renata's husband -- she clearly did not keep him in the loop regarding discussion with Jane. Smiled at how happy Ziggy was to see his mom go on a date.

[AttackTurtle]

I loved this series.  And as good a job as all of the actors did, Nicole Kidman (and the actress playing the therapist) really stood out.  She nailed her part completely.  

[annlaw78]

3 minutes ago, dhilde85 said:

Why did Celeste have plastic gloves on when she was at the apartment?

I was thinking she got a manicure for the gala, and wanted to keep it from getting messed up while cleaning.

Sort of disappointed that Perry ended up the rapist.  A little much.

[Keepitmoving]

Ziggy has brothers! 

Although, I'm not sure if they can reveal that to those kids just yet. Well if Jane tells Ziggy he will surely understand a lot more than the twins and what he doesn't get Chloe will surely explain it to him.

The last scene with all the women and children was so tranquil.

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There was no reason Bonnie pushed Perry. Now that the series has ended I hope it's okay to mention the book. There was a reason for her doing that. Here, it was out of the blue.

I guess it was left to us to infer that maybe Bonnie had a history with being a victim of domestic violence during childhood or maybe in a previous relationship. Maybe that's why she lives a life of calm/zen now.  But I didn't infer that, I had to read the summary posted here and think, oh. Because I just wasn't given enough clues to come to that conclusion, other than her just being outraged/horrified at Perry's behavior. I guess I could have gotten there by questioning why she just didn't run back for help instead of charging in by herself, that maybe she did that because it was personal. But the show just didn't devote enough time to Bonnie's character for me to think about all that.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[madam magpie]

I just have to say, too, Jane getting the truth out of Ziggy was probably my favorite scene. How she approached it was so fantastic, and I loved watching the whole thing dawn on her. He was hiding something from her, but not his own abusive tendencies. He wasn't being bullied, but he was suffering the stress of a huge secret. It all validated how well she knows her kid. And then the payoff of both Renata and Celeste believing Jane was so great. I fully expected push-back from both moms, but nothing. They both had the courage to reverse their thinking immediately upon being presented with the truth.

Edited April 3, 2017 by madam magpie

[annlaw78]

6 minutes ago, Eliz said:

My one gripe is that for a story that wants to say something about sexual violence, it seems like a weird message that all of it here comes from one guy. It's been nagging at me all week -- ever since last week's episode, it seemed pretty clear that Perry was Jane's attacker and was going to be the one to die (just because the last episode would have to be all the party scene, so there was no story time left for Jane to find some new character). Which -- his death is great, I'm all for it, but the fact that it also resolves Jane's story is way too tidy. For a story that seems to want to make a point about the reality and ubiquity of sexual violence, it's almost like a cop out to have only one man be responsible.

Or, as Eliz said, more eloquently!  I also think making Perry into a completely villainous abuser diminishes the nuance that up until this episode the show was presenting re: domestic violence.  I thought it was an interesting idea that Perry abuses Celeste to see how far he can push her, to prove she's not going to leave him in some weird, psychologically effed up (that's a technical term) way.

[Eliz]

1 minute ago, madam magpie said:

I just have to say, too, Jane getting the truth out of Ziggy was probably my favorite scene. How she approached it was so fantastic, and I loved watching the whole thing dawn on her. He was hiding something from her, but not his own abusive tendencies. He wasn't being bullied, but he was suffering the stress and weight of a huge secret. It all validated how well she knows her kids. And then the payoff of both Renata and Celeste believing Jane was so great. I fully expected push-back from both moms, but nothing. They both had the courage to reverse their thinking immediately upon being presented with the truth.

Huge agree to all of this. That series of scenes -- Jane talks to Ziggy, Jane talks to Celeste, Celeste talks to Max -- was incredible, each in its own way. The Jane and Celeste conversation was amazing. Especially Celeste's face as she finally has to confront the fact that she has been denying to her therapist and herself all along.

[scrb]

They really tied everything up into a nice bow.  

Since it's based on a book, the stories all have to converge, so that they all end, even at the price of some plausibility.

A wife beater is not necessarily a date rapist and vice versa.

The four women were not going to hold off Perry.  And I don't buy that little Bonnie is going to rag doll a man who's at least 80 pounds heavier, even with a running start.  Maybe he drank too much before he caught up with the women at the top of those stairs.

Maddy kept repeatedly crossing the tape there, crossing over to a danger zone.  So Perry dies in the same set of stairs, which is always present under all that apparent success and happieness, beneath all the surfaces that these women put up?

Perry no longer tried to hurt Celeste only in parts of her body that the world couldn't see.  He struck her in the face and was going to continue to pummel her there, destroying the brave face that she'd put up, not just to the world but to herself.

[annlaw78]

So I take it Ed was the one who convinced Abby not to launch her site due to the focus-pulling of her "methodology?"

[Atlanta]

Call me the whiner, but so much could have been fleshed out before and better played out. I'm amazed LM was okay, but maybe she had no control. Too many things got drawn out and the stupid Maddy and Joseph thing. IMO, nothing got tied in a bow because we have no idea how that bow happened. Seriously, the dumb Maddy and Joseph thing was a big time waster.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Atlanta

[madam magpie]

8 minutes ago, Eliz said:

Huge agree to all of this. That series of scenes -- Jane talks to Ziggy, Jane talks to Celeste, Celeste talks to Max -- was incredible, each in its own way. The Jane and Celeste conversation was amazing. Especially Celeste's face as she finally has to confront the fact that she has been denying to her therapist and herself all along.

It really validates one of the primary messages of the story as a whole: TELL. Talk about it. The more you tell, the less power you give the abuse, and the more power you take back for yourself.

Edited April 3, 2017 by madam magpie

[Keepitmoving]

1 minute ago, madam magpie said:

It really validates one of the primary messages of the story as a whole: TELL. Talk about it. The more you tell, the less power you give the abuse.

Yep and when Celeste ran into that fundraiser, you can see her eyes darting around for a familiar face to finally tell what was going on. I was afraid that Perry was about the drive that car right off the road committing a murder/suicide. 

[mochamajesty]

Anyone who knows how to read facial expressions saw the look on Bonnie's face when she saw Perry and Celeste. She knew immediately. 

And the series may have ended but I still have not read the book so I cannot see why that would change.

I loved the season finale.  Yes I wish there were more episodes but it is what it is.

[LoX123]

As I watched the final episode of the series, my heart was pounding so hard with anticipation and most of all fear for Celest ( Nicole K) as her monster husband found out that the realtor messaged her phone. That walk to the car from the house as they were leaving the party had my skin crawling!! Amazing ending when all the women unite and seem to support each other.  Nicole Kidman's performance was excellent and I truly view her as a great actress. I can vizualize the next season when detectives speculate about the story the ladies gave covering for sweet Bonnie, who is the guilty one. I imagine Celest will defend her as she gains her career back. Reese's charachter, Madeline, reveals her love for her husband which I love and I am glad she and Joseph are done ! Great ending to a very good series! 

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks- please keep it to episode discussion here. If you have questions about the book, there are topics for that, but the episode topics remain book-talk free. Thank you for your cooperation.

[stillshimpy]

That was awesome.  It took a story with a lot of dramatic stakes and managed to render the ending as a just outcome.  Like a fairytale, it took all the maids of the land to slay the dragon.  

I also like that the way the entire story was structured, it was the person who it would personally be the hardest on who pushed Perry.  The person least able to rationalize it away.  Just someone digging deep for the sisterhood and finding the force necessary.  It was a little schmaltzy, but I'll admit, it made me tear up.  

Poor Bonnie but kudos to Kravitz, who just looked shattered in the interview scenes.  

Edited April 3, 2017 by stillshimpy

[mochamajesty]

7 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

So I take it Ed was the one who convinced Abby not to launch her site due to the focus-pulling of her "methodology?"

I totally missed this. What makes you draw this conclusion?

[Bitsy]

40 minutes ago, archer1267 said:

Maybe someone who read the book knows the answer to this. How did Perry father children who are roughly the same age with two women - was he already married to Celeste when he impregnated Jane (thereby not just a beater, but also a cheater)? Or did he meet Celeste quickly after the night with Jane, have a whirlwind romance with her and then impregnate her with the twins? 

Adam Scott/Ed looked much better clean-shaven.

I haven't read the book and I don't think you need to have read the book to know this.  He goes on "business trips" all the time.  It's a perfect scenario for him to spend his evenings picking up one-nighters in bars.  Nice touch in this episode that the business trip he had planned was to Hawaii of all places.   Who knows if there would be any business at all on that trip.

It is a bit tidy that Perry wound up being Jane's rapist, but it's not uncommon for domestic abusers to also be cheaters.  Perry and Celeste kept talking about how "insecure" he is - sexual conquests are one way of getting ego gratification.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Bitsy

[vixenbynight]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

Wow. I really loved that, even though nothing surprised me. There was something profoundly moving about seeing this group of women come together to protect each other.

I'm going to miss this show.

Exactly. The facades of all these women, the money, their image faded away, when they needed to rise up, in order to protect another mother (and her children) from more harm.

I loved the ending.

Edited April 3, 2017 by vixenbynight

[Xantar]

Why exactly has that yellow police tape been on those stairs this while time? Did they ever actually say? 

I didn't like Perry turning out to be the rapist but not because it was too many coincidences. I'm fine with coincidences. But making him Jane's rapist turns a somewhat nuanced domestic violence story into a black and white villain story. Up until now, the story of Celeste and Perry has been riveting because it seemed so real and believable. Some of us actually bought it when Perry seemed remorseful at the couples counseling session. 

But now he doesn't have some kind of twisted love for his wife in his own mind. It turns out he's a rapist who cheats on her too. It's such a shame. 

I will say though that if this was the story they had to tell because that's what happened in the book, it was filmed and acted extremely well. The last fifteen minutes or so is almost completely free of dialogue, but we can tell exactly what happened. The moment when Jane saw Perry was particularly well done. I loved how Reese Witherspoon and Nicole Kidman played their horrified glances at each other as they realized what was going on. 

I also don't understand why they felt they had to cover up what happened. But maybe that's just what the title means: to say that he fell by accident is really a little lie. And a big one. 

[betha]

Quote

The last scene with all the women and children was so tranquil.

Yes, and I appreciate the ending but I thought it odd that Renata brought Amabella when max was there. Just two days ago she thought he would kill her if she told on him.

[susannot]

Ed was much better looking clean shaven.  I think Maddy will get back with him.

[vixenbynight]

57 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

My man, cutie barista! Best guy on the show!

Whew...that was stressful, but compelling. Way to go, Bonnie! Getting it done! I love that the five women came together in the clutch and protected one another. That's my experience with women, but so often petty squabbling takes center stage in stories. I really appreciate how this show turned so many cliches around. Loved the juxtaposition of the fight and the ocean. Really well done.

Great touch that Perry went down the caution steps.

Who was watching them at the end, though?

It was the detective in charge of the case. She doesn't believe that it was a case of self-defense with Celeste.

[Penman61]

3 minutes ago, betha said:

Yes, and I appreciate the ending but I thought it odd that Renata brought Amabella when max was there. Just two days ago she thought he would kill her if she told on him.

Celeste's face wounds were gone so I'm guessing the beach scenes were at least weeks after (No) Trivia Night.  Here's hoping some Max got child therapy in that interlude.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Penman61