S01.E06: Burning Love

[Guest]

7 hours ago, lovetowrite73 said:

She was in X-Men: First Class.

I looked at ZK's imdb page and I haven't seen most of those movies but it looks a real variety and not much room for hippie roles in most.  I watched a clip of the 2016 JK Rowling movie and it looks like Kravitz is in a pinstripe business suit with a turban, playing a judge or something.

[Stella]

28 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I looked at ZK's imdb page and I haven't seen most of those movies but it looks a real variety and not much room for hippie roles in most.  I watched a clip of the 2016 JK Rowling movie and it looks like Kravitz is in a pinstripe business suit with a turban, playing a judge or something.

She was also in Mad Max: Fury Road. I've liked her in everything I've seen which are the roles mentioned here. She may never become a great actress but so far she's done solid work IMO.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I agree that Nicole is the superior actress. 

Have yall seen Reese in "Wild," though? It's the best role I've seen her play. 

[FemmyV]

9 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

She knows Madeline hates her, she knows Madeline is trying to get a rise out of her and she just ignores it. Which is really impressive, and probably why she pisses so many people off. People don't tend to like it when other people can rise above other people's petty crap. I love Bonnie mostly because Madeline spews so much hate at her and Bonnie response with hugs. That must just BURN!!!!

I disliked Bonnie at first for reasons already went into: Maddie is the POV character, we meet her first, we identify with her first, and right off the bat, we find out that Bonnie signed the Evil Petition. Then we learn Bonnie's role in Maddie's life, and we are sympathetic to Maddie.

But the more I saw what a small community this is, the more I appreciate Bonnie's dilemma - she doesn't want Maddie and Nathan's past to keep her from being a social pariah, or Skye. Bonnie has a really thin line to walk, sometimes she screws up (Planned Parenthood), sometimes she does good (showing up at the play, the dinner attempt).

 

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Confirmation that they do, indeed look a lot alike.

I think Zoe resembles her father as much, if not more. I'm not sure if she has Lenny's eyes, but they definitely aren't from Lisa.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I found interesting is that in a previous episode, Nathan told Madeline that part of being married is going along with the stupid shit your wife wants to do (like when he paid $5K for something that she wanted) and that's part of the reason he was agreeing to this dinner. But in this episode, he flat out told Bonnie he didn't want to have this dinner. Trouble in paradise? Or maybe growing a pair and not giving in to what his wife wants? Of course that point was rendered moot because they ended up having the dinner anyway so Bonnie prevailed even after he lodged his complaint.

[ProudMary]

10 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I looked at ZK's imdb page and I haven't seen most of those movies but it looks a real variety and not much room for hippie roles in most.  I watched a clip of the 2016 JK Rowling movie and it looks like Kravitz is in a pinstripe business suit with a turban, playing a judge or something.

Harry Potter geek here.  The character you're describing from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them isn't ZK but Carmen Ejogo who plays in essence, the American Minister of Magic.  Zoe Kravitz did not actually act in the film.  She only appears in an old photograph carried by the main character, Newt Scamander, played by Eddie Redmayne.  We know her character's name, Leta Lestrange, but we know nothing of the type of character she will be.  Hippie-dippie may still be on the table!

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But in this episode, he flat out told Bonnie he didn't want to have this dinner. Trouble in paradise? Or maybe growing a pair and not giving in to what his wife wants

Or maybe just learning to communicate better.  Growing & evolving.  Like explaining The Project in person rather than on the phone. 

I will agree their backyard was paradise to me.  I love the coziness of their home.  It is still quite large but the dark wood and plantings were designed for privacy.   A den rather than an airy showcase.   

But I covet Maddie's kitchen.  And to throw her a bone, I like how she plays with Chloe and Ziggy.  She lets them be silly kids with no agenda. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by jeansheridan

[Juliegirlj]

Zoe Kravitz looks very thin in this show- I hope she is healthy and not relapsing with her eating disorder. She struggled for many years.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, FemmyV said:

I think Zoe resembles her father as much, if not more. I'm not sure if she has Lenny's eyes, but they definitely aren't from Lisa.

I do too, but there's still a strong Lisa resemblance when they're playing similar roles, or there wouldn't be that confusion. We all see different things, for example I think Reese's daughter is the spitting image of Reese to the point of being practically a clone, whereas other posters see a lot of Ryan Phillipe (to be fair, I was never a RP fan and can't pull up an image of him in my mind - so there may be something I'm missing).

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Harry Potter geek here.  The character you're describing from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them isn't ZK but Carmen Ejogo who plays in essence, the American Minister of Magic.  Zoe Kravitz did not actually act in the film.  She only appears in an old photograph carried by the main character, Newt Scamander, played by Eddie Redmayne.  We know her character's name, Leta Lestrange, but we know nothing of the type of character she will be.  Hippie-dippie may still be on the table!

Oh!  I thought she looked a lot different!  

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One thing I found interesting is that in a previous episode, Nathan told Madeline that part of being married is going along with the stupid shit your wife wants to do (like when he paid $5K for something that she wanted) and that's part of the reason he was agreeing to this dinner. But in this episode, he flat out told Bonnie he didn't want to have this dinner. Trouble in paradise? Or maybe growing a pair and not giving in to what his wife wants? Of course that point was rendered moot because they ended up having the dinner anyway so Bonnie prevailed even after he lodged his complaint.

I think it was $9k and for something like shielding their house from electromagnetic energy.   It was something most people don't do, and they were under 25 then.  I envision Nathan always having been vocal but always getting steamrolled by his wives' wants.  But them usually knowing better than him and being stronger people, too.  And the 'happy wife, happy life' thing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/28/2017 at 11:53 PM, CofCinci said:

I'm not kicking any of these men out of bed for eating crackers -- except for James Tupper. He belongs to Anne Heche and I wouldn't want to anger that beast. 

Damn. This is very interesting.  He's really, really attractive.  And now you're making him seem like some kinda forbidden fruit.  LOL

[Keepitmoving]

15 hours ago, FemmyV said:

 

 

I think Zoe resembles her father as much, if not more. I'm not sure if she has Lenny's eyes, but they definitely aren't from Lisa.

They could be her paternal grandmother's eyes, actress Roxie Roker from the Jeffersons. When she's not dressed like her mother, and her hair isn't in locks, I see a lot more of Lenny in her. In the Divergent movie she looks more like him at least in the scene I was watching. Her face was fuller too, she looked like she had on more weight.

[Cardie]

Maddie hates Bonnie, I think, because Bonnie is the anti-Maddie in every respect (age, race, Zen attitude, hippie values, etc.) By choosing Bonnie for his second wife, Nathan seems to be saying that Maddie was all wrong for him and that the right non-Maddie can make him a better man than one who let down Maddie and Abigail. Maddie married Ed, I have to think, as a sort of lifeboat, someone who could offer her financial and emotional support after her hard times raising Abby alone. He's clearly smitten with her, which stokes her ego, but she doesn't reciprocate the passion and resents like hell Nathan having found his own dream girl while she has settled for Ed.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 3/31/2017 at 9:29 PM, Stella said:

Honestly the casting job is phenomenal because in every case the actress is able to play something of a version of herself, or perhaps her typical screen persona. And to me they are all so well suited for these roles and nailing them perfectly.

I am probably alone here, but I wish they had cast someone else to play Renata. I find Laura Dern's portrayal just too over the top. I know they are not right age, but I would love to see someone like Sigourney Weaver or Catherine Keener cast as Renata. I think their acting would be more nuanced. 

I have not seen Selma Blair in that many movies, but she is in the correct age range for a Renata. 

I will admit that I have never watched Enlightened, so maybe that's why I am not a big fan of Laura Dern. 

[Clanstarling]

8 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I will admit that I have never watched Enlightened, so maybe that's why I am not a big fan of Laura Dern. 

Well, I am a fan of Laura Dern, but hated Enlightened. So even for fans, mileage varies. I think the character is supposed to be over the top. I found Dern's acting incredibly nuanced when she and Jane had their detente.

[Guest]

I hated Enlightened, at least the 1.2 episodes I gave it.  And Dern reminded me of that character here in parts.  I'm fine with her.  I wouldn't go out of my way to watch her stuff or to avoid it.  

[CofCinci]

Dern plays Reneta like a villain in a Rom-Com.  This ain't a Rom-Com.

 

Has anyone seen the promo for tonight's episode?  It looks like Kidman is wearing a terrible wig.  I wonder if they reshoot the finale -- I wonder if there will be more seasons now.

Edited April 2, 2017 by CofCinci

[Curio]

I binge-watched this series this weekend and did not expect to love it as much as I did. (I've also managed to avoid book spoilers.) But, yeah, how in the world is there only one episode left??

11 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I am probably alone here, but I wish they had cast someone else to play Renata. I find Laura Dern's portrayal just too over the top. 

I think Dern is doing a scary good job of portraying a lot of working moms I know, so I sometimes get uncomfortable watching her scenes because I've interacted with that kind of woman before in real life. Actually, all the women on the show are so realistic, which is why I like the show. Whenever a guy complains to me about "why do women gossip so much?" I'll just point him to this series. 

[humbleopinion]

Sometimes the main actors will wear a wig so when the stunt person does the dangerous stunts like fight scenes, the filmed scenes will have  continuity since Nicole's body shape is difficult to match, a wig solves some of the matching problems such as hair, color, length.

Gives the editors some leeway to make the scene look continuous.

[Juliegirlj]

12 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I am probably alone here, but I wish they had cast someone else to play Renata. I find Laura Dern's portrayal just too over the top. I know they are not right age, but I would love to see someone like Sigourney Weaver or Catherine Keener cast as Renata. I think their acting would be more nuanced. 

I have not seen Selma Blair in that many movies, but she is in the correct age range for a Renata. 

I will admit that I have never watched Enlightened, so maybe that's why I am not a big fan of Laura Dern. 

Sigourney Weaver is 67 years old and could portray Renata's mother, but she is great and doesn't look her age. David Kelly gave an interview about why Dern was chosen and said it was very important to cast a nuanced actress that could flesh out Renata's idiosyncrasies. I think she has done that well. 

[Mabinogia]

I've never given Laura Dern much thought either way. Don't love her don't hate her. All I can remember her in is Jurassic Park. But I absolutely love her as Renata. She has made Renata one of my favorite characters. She's just so overly dramatic, but in a way that feels like Renata is overly dramatic rather than the actress is just overacting, which works for me.

Renata is just one of those people who is dialed up to max at all times. I'm sure she's exhausting to be around, but given her job it make sense. She's probably had to work twice as hard as the men around her to earn every promotion she got. She's used to being intense and dialed up all the time. She's used to fighting for everything. She's just a very intense, and probably highly paranoid person. I bet there is always someone breathing down her neck at work, looking to take her place and she carries that through to her life, which, she's not really wrong.

I think it was really telling, when she finally broke down, as much as she is willing, in front of Jane and said that it was killing her that her daughter is being hurt and she can't do anything to stop it. This is probably a very uncomfortable, unfamiliar situation for her since she does seem to be a bit of a control freak. And without that control, she is completely lost. I think Dern is showing that beautifully, a woman who was so in control is completely losing it because she can't control this.

[jeansheridan]

20 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

This is probably a very uncomfortable, unfamiliar situation for her since she does seem to be a bit of a control freak. And without that control, she is

Really cool insight.   Because in her next scene with Jane, Renata has a plan.  She is in control and is charming.  She enjoys Jane's burn at Harper like a proper Alpha Female.

Dern was really good in Fault In Our Stars playing Shaileen's mom.  Enlightened was satire and I hated her in it.  I think we were supposed to hate her.  Dern is fearless in that she doesn't seem to need people to like her.  She plays weird, odd, uncomfortable women.  She rarely plays glamorous.   Even in the title sequence she makes the least appealing Audrey.  

[Clanstarling]

30 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

This is probably a very uncomfortable, unfamiliar situation for her since she does seem to be a bit of a control freak. And without that control, she is completely lost. I think Dern is showing that beautifully, a woman who was so in control is completely losing it because she can't control this.

Scratch the surface of many control freaks and you'll find a childhood of chaos and (perhaps) pain.

[Mabinogia]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Renata herself, was abused as a child. It would just add to her feeling out of control now with Amabella. She doesn't need to have had it happen to her, but it would add to the chaos that is going on inside her right now.

And I am still mesmerized by that scene of Renata and Jane. I've seen it three times now and it is such a perfect moment. Jane showed Renata actual understanding and compassion, and I think it was the moment Renata realized that if Ziggy is innocent, at it looks to her like maybe he really is, than she is hurting him too. I think she was so wrapped up in her daughter being hurt that she truly didn't think of it from the other side.

I just hope the show doesn't backpeddle on that. I want to see an understanding between them. Obviously Renata's husband isn't on board with it, but I hope Renata explains that they are not going to be bullies themselves and he needs to let the vendetta on Jane go.

[QuinnM]

Quote

Really cool insight.   Because in her next scene with Jane, Renata has a plan.  She is in control and is charming.  She enjoys Jane's burn at Harper like a proper Alpha Female.

I think too that Renata has felt all along like no one is listening to her.  Not the principal, not her husband, no one.  And here at her door is Jane who leads with, I hear you.  The female to female interaction on this show is so dead on.  I think that's why I enjoy it so.  Sure we've got these great stories running through it but the women just seem so authentic. 

And kudzoos to HBO for a female led series with women that are not of Hollywood's perfect age.

[Lithogirl]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:26 PM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I agree that Nicole is the superior actress. 

Have yall seen Reese in "Wild," though? It's the best role I've seen her play. 

I agree, and I can't get over the fact that Laura Dern played her mother in that movie!

Edited April 2, 2017 by Lithogirl

[shelley1234]

I binged this show over the weekend and just in time for the finale.   I agree that there is so much they need to cover to finish this off and only an hour to do it in.    

On 3/30/2017 at 0:08 PM, madam magpie said:

Madeline is a POV character, whereas Bonnie isn't, so it's harder for the audience to empathize with Bonnie. I also think you're on to something about Reese; she's super likable in general, so audiences are prone to side with her. It would be interesting to see the reaction if she played a villain. (Has she ever?)

 

 

 

 

 

On 3/30/2017 at 5:58 PM, lovinbob said:

 

Tracy Flick from Election. Villain probably isn't the right word, but certainly not likable. Extremely intense perfectionist who would stop at nothing to achieve her goals. Sound familiar? She's not as fun as Maddie, but they have other traits in common.

1

 

That would have been my answer to the question of if Reese has ever played a villain.   I do think Reese often plays the nice, charming Southern belle well, however she also has been someone to play someone who has an edge to her as well.   Election is one of my all time favorite movies and it is because of Reese.   She plays the insanity that is Tracy Flick perfectly.   

Someone said in an earlier thread and then again in this thread that the character that Reese plays in this show could be seen as the grown up version of Flick.   I'll co-sign that.   

I do think the cast is pretty spot on here.   I think each woman just naturally exudes what is supposed to come from each character.    I immediately felt like I knew these women.

Earlier there was a debate about if Renata was a bully or not.   Sure, in some ways she is.  However, I think Madeline is much more of a bully than Renata is.   And yep, Renata looks much more devilish because we get to see all the info from Jane's storyline as well.  However, Renata just sees her daughter continuing to come home from school with physical signs that she is being abused.   She sees the school dismissing it and not taking it seriously.   She sees another mother at the school seemingly trying to punish her daughter for telling about who hurt her.   So, Renata is a mama bear fighting for her cub.   She's wrong, but she doesn't know that.   And when we see Jane go to her...humble herself with an apology and share her side of it, we see Renata soften.  

I agree with the speculation that it is one of the twins who are hurting Amabella, if it is any of the kids who actually know.   Amabella didn't expect to be put on the spot in front of everyone to say who hurt her, so she lied and picked the new kid.   She couldn't back off her story then, but it's clear with her interactions with Ziggy since that he isn't the one hurting her.   My only issue with it being one of the twins (if that is what ends up happening)....is that the boys haven't shown a lick of an angry or violent streak.   If they were continuing a pattern of physically abusing someone at school....you'd see that aggression in other areas.   

[shireenbamfatheon]

2 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

I agree with the speculation that it is one of the twins who are hurting Amabella, if it is any of the kids who actually know.   Amabella didn't expect to be put on the spot in front of everyone to say who hurt her, so she lied and picked the new kid.   She couldn't back off her story then, but it's clear with her interactions with Ziggy since that he isn't the one hurting her.   My only issue with it being one of the twins (if that is what ends up happening)....is that the boys haven't shown a lick of an angry or violent streak.   If they were continuing a pattern of physically abusing someone at school....you'd see that aggression in other areas.   

2

I think it's more a case of the twin(s) not realizing he/they are doing anything wrong because they're just emulating their father's behavior rather than them being full-blown psychopaths or violent by nature. I did notice that one of the twins has been depicted as being gentler and more softer than the other. He got scared watching whatever was on tv, curled up in Celeste's lap on their way to Disney on Ice and believes in the tooth fairy (while his brother ridiculed him for believing in her). Of course, the twins are interchangeable and there's no proof that it's the same twin during all these scenes, but it wouldn't surprise me if one kid is reacting with fear as a result of what's going on at home while the other is reacting with violence without understanding the implications. One of them also looked very uncertain when he walked in on Perry hurting Celeste.

As for them not showing a violent streak, I don't think it's a coincidence they're always shown playing with guns or having their dad play shoot at them. One of them was also playing what sounded like a violent video game and Perry watched a horror movie them at some point, I think? Pretty much all of their spare time revolves around violent games and behavior of some kind. They even destroyed the stuffed animal because they were messing around. Contrast that with someone like Ziggy who plays the guitar and baseball, sings and dances and runs around without getting rough.

[Kell]

On 3/27/2017 at 11:03 PM, Clanstarling said:

 I could sing every song from Funny Girl - with every one of Barbra's inflections - when I was 13 or so. Still can do most of it.

YES!  Me too!!!!

[humbleopinion]

Perry's favorite chasing game to play with the twins...Monster.

Perry's private persona with Celeste...Monster.

[memememe76]

In terms of Reese playing a villain, perhaps playing Rachel's sister on Friends? 

[Crs97]

I also think of Pleasantville - not that she was an evil villain, but she was definitely refusing to conform to that society’s version of “nice girl.”

[methodwriter85]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:42 AM, Crs97 said:

I also think of Pleasantville - not that she was an evil villain, but she was definitely refusing to conform to that society’s version of “nice girl.”

She wasn't playing a nice person in Election, either. She wasn't a bad person, either, but she didn't care about other people except in regards to how they could serve her ambitions.

 

Quote

Someone said in an earlier thread and then again in this thread that the character that Reese plays in this show could be seen as the grown up version of Flick.   I'll co-sign that.   

I feel like it's primarily Flick, but also with a dash of Elle's compassion for people. Basically, imagine if Flick had been derailed by a pregnancy in her early 20's that thwarted her ambitions, so she starts turning her ambitions towards her daughters. Along the way, she develops a need to help people. The teenaged daughter very much seems to have rejected that, while the younger daughter has adopted that ambitious attitude.

Edited January 7, 2018 by methodwriter85

[answerphone]

I'm two years late to the party but I binge watched this weekend via HBO on demand.

What a spectacular Mother's Day gift.  I can't wait for the new season!

[aradia22]

I appreciate that Madeline is maybe feeling bad about meddling though she's still saying it in the sort of way where she wants reassurance that she didn't do anything wrong. Like, when you say "tell me I'm awful" because you really want someone to tell you "no, of course you aren't awful." The show recognizes that she's been creating messes but I'm not sure if it's going to go anywhere.

Also, I'm really kind of over Madeline calling her friends at all hours of the day like they have nothing else to do but talk to her. It's very self-involved to only think about when you want to talk. 

Ziggy is innocent. But I'm curious what people think should have happened if he wasn't. If there's a six-year-old running around choking other students hard enough to leave a mark and biting other kids hard enough to leave a scar and the school has delayed responding until belatedly hiring a teacher aide... wouldn't you be concerned? That is the information Renata is working from. I'm not saying her petition is right but the school is wildly mishandling this and if I was a parent, I would worry about the safety of my child. 

Jane should be seeing a therapist and not just going to the gun range and talking to lunatic Madeline who keeps encouraging her to stay in a place that's not good for her and fight with Renata. 

The therapy session was a little... TV for my taste but there were some smart things said about Celeste getting an apartment set up and documenting her injuries. 

I am SO glad that Jane ignored Madeline's BS and came to Renata with an apology, taking responsibility for losing control. Yes, she didn't intend to hurt her but she did and she took responsibility for that. And then she came to her with kindness and empathy and respect. And they were finally able to talk honestly and rationally. Funny how that works. Renata was never an awful person. Neither was Jane. Madeline stirred them up. Well, her and the school's mismanagement of the situation.

OMG, the tennis racket! Was she aiming to hit him there? Hilarious.

I had to roll my eyes at Abigail's secret project. It feels like it gives Madeline a boost that without her supervision, Abigail went to such an extreme. But living at Bonnie and Nathan's doesn't seem that bad. It doesn't seem like there's a great deal of negligence. It's just that they aren't really monitoring what she does on her computer. If she had wanted to, she probably could have hid that activity at home with Madeline as well unless there was some kind of program on her laptop that reported all her web activity. Also, LOL, she's full of herself to think she would occupy the news cycle for weeks. I don't know. I feel like maybe A teenager might do this but it seems wild for THIS teenager to do this. She doesn't seem politically radical enough and she doesn't seem to want to rebel against her parents that badly. They're selling her as a noble idealist but she doesn't seem stupid enough to think this is a good idea... which you would have to be.

It wasn't an awful episode but I do feel like they've been dragging this out. This season did not need to be 7 episodes to convey this amount of plot. 

 

[aradia22]

Quote

Robin Weigert sounded exactly like a lawyer in a custody battle.

I actually didn't love that. That moment was a glaring reminder that oh, this is an actress who can play a lawyer as easily as she can play a therapist. I wish they had found another way for Celeste to hear that (I mean this show loves a dream/fantasy sequence, flash forward/flashback) or had her say it more like a counselor would. She was just slightly too combative the way TV therapists are because they're being used as plot devices. 

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I laughed at Nathan's "I'm proud of your beliefs" spiel. 

I know Bonnie's reaction was supposed to be a bit of a joke but I think she had the right idea. She's not insane. She was never going to let Abigail go through with it either. But she was trying to take the path that wouldn't end in a screaming match and would let Abigail feel heard instead of shamed and resentful. Madeline ended up taking something of a middle path in the end as well by revealing her affair but narratively, that felt less like a good way to resolve Abigail's bonkers storyline and more like a way for Maddy to reveal the affair/for Reese to have an acting moment. 

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Celeste cannot have friends or events other than Perry. 

I'm not saying he's right to be controlling and abusive. But I do think Perry is right to see Maddy as a threat. Madeline is encouraging Celeste to practice law again. Madeline is pushing Celeste closer to Jane. Madeline is also a very needy friend who calls at all hours and is always inviting Celeste out for drinks or dinner. Madeline is the kind of friend who is going to compete with him for Celeste's attention. Being friends with Madeline does nothing but encourage Celeste's independence from Perry. And you know if Celeste ever did confess the abuse, Madeline would believe her. Though I don't think Perry is worried about that yet.

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I thought this episode was great, though the vomiting was over-the-top and unnecessary. It was so unrealistic. Why was it neon green??

Same. Though I rationalized that as her having a green smoothie, salad, etc. If there has to be vomit (and why does there have to be vomit) I'd rather see unrealistic green vomit than realistic-looking vomit. 

Quote

Even though the therapy scenes are super dramatically compelling, they make me furious. It's clear no one on the writing staff has ever actually worked with survivors of domestic violence. A therapist never pushes a client into leaving an abusive relationship. They make safety plans with the client and address any concerns, but it is completely unethical for a therapist to take the tone Celeste's therapist has taken. 

Thank you. Very much the TV version of therapy. I'm curious what this show would have been like with different writers or a different director. It would just be a subtle shift to convey most of the same information but not present it the way they did. It felt like Kelley maybe read a general summary of what a therapist might say to a domestic abuse survivor and then wrote it how he wanted to using the bullet points. Even if they didn't want to lay it all out you could cut and come back to show that Celeste had taken notes and had a plan. 

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I have a really bad feeling about the escape plan though; I think he's going to find out somehow - perhaps from her browsing history - and go nuclear.

I thought he'd see her browsing history and show up at the place when it was being shown to her but that's largely because this show is shot so weirdly I keep thinking someone's lurking behind the corner. We're often looking at someone's back or an open door or seemingly empty room is taking up most of the frame so I just expect terror on the other side of the quick cuts. Since they deferred that, I'm now wondering whether they have separate checking accounts. Surely he'd notice if she suddenly paid for an apartment... it has to cost more than her clothing budget. 

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As soon as he came home early claiming to be back for the play, I knew he was going to somehow manipulate the situation to keep her from going. 

I don't think he was committed to her not going. But I think he wanted to score a point before he let her go. He wanted to have sex and/or make sure she was late. It would have been a way of exerting control and also making her prove that she cared more about him than Madeline. 

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There is nothing admirable about Renata, in my opinion. She's nothing but a bully, and the only way to deal with bullies to kick their ass, either legally as Celeste did with Avenue Q, or physically as Jane did. Renata's howling about her eye was the most satisfying part of the episode, except for maybe Celeste hitting Perry in the crotch.

STRONG disagree. Madeline has been a bully. I didn't see Jane finally standing up to Renata. I saw Jane finally meeting her with kindness. 

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I don't think the show is asking us to believe that Celeste's therapist is behaving like a typical therapist, or that she's following the official rules of conduct. She seems like she's decided to do whatever she can to convince her client to leave a horrific relationship, regardless of whether or not she's supposed to give that kind of advice.

I'd buy this if she didn't seem so blase at the end of sessions like... welp, our time is up. Hope your husband doesn't kill you before we can work out the details of what to do next session. If she was really alarmed, I feel like in the last two sessions she would have ignored that she wasn't being paid anymore to assure herself that Celeste was in a more secure place (mentally, emotionally, in terms of plans if she decided to leave, etc.). It's as simple as spending an extra 5-10 minutes talking to her. Hell, even an Emma Pillsbury brochure would have been helpful.

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Throw in his Patrick Bateman-worthy body, the ability to wear the shit out of a suit as you said, blonde hair, and blue eyes, and you have a menacing image of stereotypical "all-American" physical perfection that can convincingly dominate Celeste.

I definitely think this is what they're going for. But I also find him distractingly Nordic. Especially when he hits certain words so his accent slips I have to remind myself that Celeste and Perry are supposed to be an all-American golden couple and not an Australian model married to a Swedish model. The show also has that Scandinavian noir vibe with its gray gloominess, abandoned beaches, sparsely decorated interiors, etc. Strangely, as I've watched more of the season, I've found that Nicole's terrible hair (is it a wig? It got wet in the shower) helps because it softens her features. 

[Aqua]

On 3/27/2017 at 9:34 AM, vibeology said:

 The dinner and vomiting did amuse me though and everything about Maddie/Ed was really well done.

I laughed hysterically at the vomiting and how it kept happening. I have not laughed that hard in a long time and I normally hate vomit scenes. In fact I am laughing right now just thinking about it and can't stop.

Edited July 27, 2020 by ReviewX