S06.E06: Full Disclosure

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Marnie tries to convince a resistant Desi to follow through with their planned gig at her mom's birthday party in New Jersey. After rebuffing Adam's request to watch his film, Hannah gets advice on an important decision from her dad (Peter Scolari) and his new partner, Keith. Elijah's thespian talents are rekindled when he helps a coworker run lines for an audition.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[WhosThatGirl]

This episode was maybe the first episode since episode two that I liked actually. The Adam and Hannah scene was good as was the Jessa and Hannah scene and I'm glad of some acknowledgement towards whatever the hell their "friendship" was. You can't detach yourself from relantionship Jessa?

Jessa does that quite a lot. She's talking to none of the other girls. And Jessa as someone who dislikes Hannah, she at least knows god damn empathy something I don't think Jessa even knows about. Did anyone notice in that fight it was all about Jessas feelings and Jessa was upset because Hannah had stopped giving a damn about Jessa. Jessa had no real feelings about how Hannah was. I hope Hannah tells water ski boy he's about to be a dad.

I was right. The Adam and Jessa movie is terrible. Even if we only saw snippets. I do however bet this is what makes Hannah fall back in love with him and ew on that!

I like Rita Wilson but I hate marines mom. I really hate the Marnie story in this final season. 

Ellijah is fun.

Poor Soshonna. Was Zosia like checked out on set or something and therefore Soshonna gets no story. 

[CofCinci]

The recreation of the Hannah/Adam meeting (shown during the credits if you didn't turn it off) hit me in the feels.  I keep going back and forth on whether I want Hannah/Adam to be endgame.

"If it hurts, you'll always remember."

[The Solution]

I don't know who I hate the most on this show, but it's not Elijah.

[windtrix]

I am pretty bored with Marnie....and now that I think of it, I have been since the very first episode of season 1.

[TomGirl]

Adam Driver sure looked to me like Jon Hamm in that last flashback scene.

[Irritable]

Adam is always, always, always the best part of this show for me.  Good lord, he is FOINE.  I can't believe how disgusting I thought he was in the beginning, but maybe it was just because his relationship with Hannah was so gross.  Now that he's rehashing it with feelings and stuff, I might come around to them as a couple more, but Hannah hasn't grown enough for me to root for her with anyone, pregnant or not.  Not that Adam really has things completely together... I'm not sure if this movie thing is going to turn out to be a disaster or a huge success.  Hannah and Elijah being life companions would be fine with me.  Hannah's mother will likely spring back to life once she has a grandchild, and will help out a lot with the baby while Hannah is running around doing whatever it is that Hannah does.

Is there some kind of forward motion happening with Desi in this episode that I'm not seeing?  Knocking his motorcycle over was a metaphor for what?

The only people who have a genuine shot at good lives are Shoshanna and Ray, especially if they get back together.  Everyone else?  I give them 50/50 odds at staying alive past 30.

[OriginalChaos]

I didn't realize just how much I wanted Hannah & Adam to be endgame until that last scene. It's like I was right there with Hannah falling for him all over again (before he lost his gd mind & got together with Mimi Rose & knocked out a wall). Adam's such a messy ass mess but so is Hannah (in an interesting, engaging way, not like the WTFery that is Marnie & Dez).

Edited March 20, 2017 by OriginalChaos

[Stephanie1216]

Jessa was all about Jessa but Hannah is always so selfish it was good enough for her. Actually all of the characters are the most selfish people I have ever seen.

Adam just wants Hannah to tell him his film is good. Hannah makes it about her by saying she's pregnant 

Desi

marnie

marnies mom

jessa

all selfish tonight 

Hannahs dad was listening, but is boyfriend talked about HIS experience, trying to help?

Elijah helped a co worker with her lines but actually discovered something about HIMSELF so kinda selfish but introspective. Slight pass 

terrible episode

[hoodooznoodooz]

Is it Jan's?

No, it's not Fran's!

[Stephanie1216]

Just now, hoodooznoodooz said:

Is it Jan's?

No, it's not Fran's!

Only joke tonight and it was good enough.

Also backs up my selfish theory tonight. Hannah's in s long term relationship and Adam didn't care enough to know the mans name. Sounds about right.

[scrb]

Marnie didn't seem too into the Michaels Sisters.

Desi the emo opioid junkie didn't seem to be too into performing in Jersey.

Hannah didn't seem too into Jessa reaching out.

And still nobody seemed thrilled at Hannah being pregnant.  Everyone felt more strongly about the father having the right to know.

[WhosThatGirl]

Marnie was excited for a little bit until Hannah said she doesn't plan on telling the father. Adam probably was reminded of when Mimi Rose had an abortion and didn't tell him. They aren't wrong; the father should know.

[chocolatine]

This was a really "meh" episode for me. I usually find Rita Wilson as Marnie's mother hilarious ("you look like a Starbucks cup"), but here she fell totally flat.

The only thing I liked was Hannah telling Jessa that they were never friends. Jessa has always been all about herself, long before she got together with Adam.

Adam's "movie" was so poorly made. It felt like Lena's intention was to make the audience nostalgic for the early Adam/Hannah days, but to me it was just a reminder how unhealthy their relationship was and how much Hannah allowed him to degrade her. Even though they've both grown up a bit since, I'm still not sure I want them to be endgame.

Edited March 20, 2017 by chocolatine

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This was a really "meh" episode for me. I usually find Rita Wilson as Marnie's mother hilarious ("you look like a Starbucks cup"), but here she fell totally flat.

The only think I liked was Hannah telling Jessa that they were never friends. Jessa has always been all about herself, long before she got together with Adam.

Adam's "movie" was so poorly made. It felt like Lena's intention was to make the audience nostalgic for the early Adam/Hannah days, but to me it was just a reminder how unhealthy their relationship was and how much Hannah allowed him to degrade her. Even though they've both grown up a bit since, I'm still not sure I want them to be endgame.

This! Adam and Hannah aren't a love story. There was a brief moment in season 3 where he was sweet and nice to her but then he realized it was unhealthy for him to only exist to take care of her, he couldn't do his acting and worry about her needs constantly and Hannah had to realize she was incredibly codependent on him to always be there to help her. So their romance was never all that healthy, season 3 was probably the only time it looked a little remotely healthy but once we got a closeup on it, it wasn't.

[lidarose9]

The whole Marnie storyline was a waste of time. We've had Marnie's disillusionment with her life up the ying yang already. It's overkill. Besides the writing being a joke, Alison Williams is just not good. What do we see out of her week after week after week? An emotional range from A to B. And she can *never* keep that hint of a smirk off her face. Plus, there are women who, no matter how skinny they are, just do not have a good body. She is just skinny. 

I am not a fan of the baby development at all, but I must say it's interesting how everybody has opinions about every part of it and everybody feels really strongly that Hannah should pay attention to their opinions. It's a good look at how entitled everybody is with a pregnant woman. 

Really it's disappointing. This magnificent character Elijah and the only thing she can come up with for him is to become a Broadway diva? How cliche. 

[DianeDobbler]

I've long since become resigned that this show's two leading ladies are Hannah and Marnie, that's how Dunham sees it, and no matter how execrable Williams' acting, Dunham thinks she's kick ass.

They're not even paying lip service to writing for Shoshanna. She's a prop. It reminds me of Mad Men. We're going to get Shoshanna's end game wrapped in a bow and Dunham's gonna skip the storytelling part.

I've always hated Adam and Hannah. I've never believed Adam would be into her. I agree that he's whatever the script needs him to be, though. The primary way he's grown is that Adam Driver has developed a sense of humor in the role. Driver over all has opened up as an actor in his interviews and his work - he's much funnier and more relaxed.

Desi - as others have said, Ebon Moss-Bachrach is incredible in this role. It's a personal miracle for me, because from looks to the type of guy he's playing, he's got everything I cannot stand. I should recoil every time he's on camera, but he is hilarious. I actually believed him and Marnie back in the beginning, when he seemed to be a sexy, talented actor / musician. They they turned him skeevy, and I thought - that's it. He's going to gross me out now, but he makes me laugh so much. I thought the scene between him and Marnie in the stairwell after her night with Charlie was the end of Desi, and I've been surprised every time that he keeps turning up. But really, look at Marnie. She's not much better, and if Desi got it together in any way whatsoever, he might be right for her.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, The Solution said:

I don't know who I hate the most on this show, but it's not Elijah.

"You wouldn't be the best parent, but certainly not the worst. Candy Spelling is still alive, so..."

I loved Hannah shutting Jessa down. That was delicious.

Tad and his BF are cute.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Eyes High

[luna1122]

I don't think we're supposed to think Adam's film is bad. And I think I like the chemistry with him and Faux-Hannah better than he and Actual-Hannah. I do not want them to be endgame. I don't want any of these folks to be each others' end game, including Ray and Shosh. I do like Hannah and Elijah as the baby-parents, and liked Elijah sort of apologizing. I love every single thing  about Elijah. Except his tighty whities. Gay men usually have better taste in underwear.

Did we know he worked at Bendel's before last nite? I have absolutely no problem with him becoming a Broadway diva, and I just hope he's cast in "Hedwig".

6 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

Plus, there are women who, no matter how skinny they are, just do not have a good body. She is just skinny. 

Skinny does not equal good body for me, especially too skinny. Skeletal is no more sexy than fat. Marnie looked kind of gorgeous last nite, to me (the smudgey eye did it for me) but she's way too skinny. I'm unsure who is more annoying, Marnie or her mom. I think her mom. I did like how happy Marnie was about Hannah's pregnancy, and I did like Hannah telling her it was no surprise that Ray dumped her cuz she's always such a cunt to him.

I liked the Hannah/Jessa scene. Jessa mostly deserves Hannah shutting her down, tho I'm unclear, still, on just how bad Jessa's friend-crime was. Hannah dumped Adam, Jessa didn't steal him. I'm not into snatching up your friends' past boyfriends, just in general, but nobody seems to care that Marnie did it to Shoshonna, and this is an ethically challenged group of friends anyway.

[Eyes High]

26 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I liked the Hannah/Jessa scene. Jessa mostly deserves Hannah shutting her down, tho I'm unclear, still, on just how bad Jessa's friend-crime was. Hannah dumped Adam, Jessa didn't steal him. I'm not into snatching up your friends' past boyfriends, just in general, but nobody seems to care that Marnie did it to Shoshonna, and this is an ethically challenged group of friends anyway.

I think it's more that Jessa has always been a shitty person and a toxic friend to Hannah who never returned Hannah's devotion, but that it took Jessa getting together with Adam and refusing to tell Hannah about it--even passive-aggressively picking a fight with Hannah so that she would have "permission" in her own mind--for the scales to fall from Hannah's eyes about how toxic Jessa really is. Jessa really did Hannah a favour in that sense. As for Marnie and Shoshanna, at least Marnie explained to Shosh what was going on, something Jessa never did for Hannah.

Hannah can no longer be bothered to give any fucks about Jessa, and it's glorious. Their conversation showed how horrible Jessa really is, in case it wasn't already abundantly clear; it's all about Jessa's feelings, Jessa's needs, and Jessa's wants. Not only does she not apologize even once, but look at what she does do. Jessa's response to Hannah's pregnancy is to show up uninvited without caring that Hannah doesn't want to see her; to inform Hannah that she was hurt by Hannah not telling her; to lay the "dear friend" line on Hannah which Hannah rightly identifies as total nonsense; to get upset when she realizes that Hannah is cutting her out of her life (since it underlines Jessa's irrelevance); and to start lobbing insults at her supposed "dear friend" like "psychopath" when it's clear she's not going to get what she wants and when Hannah refuses to rise to the bait. Fucking Jessa. What a bitch.

Judging from her ire at Hannah "erasing" her by no longer wanting anything to do with her, Jessa seemed to think that Hannah was supposed to be her friend forever, no matter how badly Jessa treated her. It doesn't work that way, of course, although of course Jessa would think that Hannah's previous devotion provided her with permanent access to Hannah that nothing Jessa did could erase.

Not that Adam is any better; he's whining about Hannah supposedly needing "closure," but, just like Jessa, he's desperately trying to find a way back into Hannah's life by any means necessary. What a piece of shit. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Eyes High

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[DammitHardison]

Obligatory fangirl post that another Hamilton cast member appears this week: Jasmine Cephas Jones as Elijah's coworker. I wonder if Andrew Rannells had any influence in getting her and Oak to guest star. I wasn't expecting either one so it was a nice surprise to see them this season.

[cardigirl]

I loved the scene at the end of the show, while the credits were rolling, that was the movie version of Hannah and Adam meeting, but was wondering if that was ever shown before? I admit, I came to the show a little late, but thought I had caught up on all of the episodes. 

Personally, I view the movie as a rewrite of their relationship from Adam. Hannah wanted Adam to be her boyfriend long before he actually acquiesed to it, and he was pretty boorish to her (and we were shown that behavior with another girl that certainly was viewed by her as abuse).  He's made this movie about how deep his feelings were for her, but what we were shown for a lot of that was that he didn't communicate that to Hannah. It just feels weird to see this sweetness between them that didn't actually show up til he moved in and then "rescued" her when she perforated her eardrum.

Also, this episode showed Hannah with some kind of job?  And Elijah too?  I mean, many people have questioned how do they afford to live where they live with no visible means of support, but Elijah cooking veggie patties and going to Bendels and Hannah having deadlines, well gee, that seemed 'normal' or something.  So I guess Hannah actually is the one person in her group that is the most together.  Hmmm. 

[TomGirl]

Lena is looking great!

[LilaFowler]

Some friends you have to un-friend full stop.  Jessa is one of them and Hannah has finally realized it.  Jessa has been nothing but self-absorbed and toxic since minute one.  Not sure how I feel about Adam's film.  I think the audience was supposed to warm to the possibility of them going for another round? I hope not.  Just move on! They aren't some great love story.

I think Hannah and her kid will be okay.  Laurene will help out, as will her dad, his boyfriend and Elijah. I could not care less about Marnie or her drama.

I've been loving this show this season. It's too bad that it's ending -- the writing was just starting to get good. I am almost actually fond (?) of the the new, more mature and grounded Hannah. The "old" Hannah is still running into the bathroom and hiding when she hears something that she doesn't want to but ah well.  It would be great if Elijah, consistently the best character, would get a spinoff.

Edited March 20, 2017 by LilaFowler

[SlackerInc]

I wonder if Andrew Rannells asked Lena Dunham to give him a scene where he could show that he has a lot more range than just the vain, queeny gay stereotype, so he doesn't get typecast.  She was right--that was good!

Psst, Jessa: a sociopath is the same thing as a psychopath.

28 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I loved the scene at the end of the show, while the credits were rolling, that was the movie version of Hannah and Adam meeting, but was wondering if that was ever shown before? I admit, I came to the show a little late, but thought I had caught up on all of the episodes. 

I'm pretty sure we never saw their "meet cute".  I think that was a scene from before the show started.  Pretty cool.

[cardigirl]

Just now, SlackerInc said:

I wonder if Andrew Rannells asked Lena Dunham to give him a scene where he could show that he has a lot more range than just the vain, queeny gay stereotype, so he doesn't get typecast.  She was right--that was good!

Psst, Jessa: a sociopath is the same thing as a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure we never saw their "meet cute".  I think that was a scene from before the show started.  Pretty cool.

So we have no way of knowing if that is really what happened when they met, or if that is filtered through Adam's need to tell the story of a 'love so great, it couldn't last.'   Again I say, hmmmm.

Agreed that Andrew Rannells was/is wonderful.

[EdnasEdibles]

8 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

The whole Marnie storyline was a waste of time. We've had Marnie's disillusionment with her life up the ying yang already. It's overkill. Besides the writing being a joke, Alison Williams is just not good. What do we see out of her week after week after week? An emotional range from A to B. And she can *never* keep that hint of a smirk off her face. Plus, there are women who, no matter how skinny they are, just do not have a good body. She is just skinny. 

I am not a fan of the baby development at all, but I must say it's interesting how everybody has opinions about every part of it and everybody feels really strongly that Hannah should pay attention to their opinions. It's a good look at how entitled everybody is with a pregnant woman. 

Really it's disappointing. This magnificent character Elijah and the only thing she can come up with for him is to become a Broadway diva? How cliche. 

I see Marnie & Elijah at being at opposite ends of the same 20-something spectrum. They each have an unrealistic dream. Marnie wants to be a musician and Elijah wants to act. And they're both at the age where they need to realistically figure out if they're going to keep pursuing it or are they going to give up and go safe. I think Marnie is hitting the point where she realizes she needs to give up. She's nothing without Desi singing next to her and he's unable to do this. She has never achieved success like her mother's friend in playing before the Fugees. She just doesn't have what it takes and she knows this. She even said something about being on the "wrong side of her 20s" - time is running out and she's not making it. Time for a new plan.

Elijah on the other hand has been going safe, working retail and hoping but not doing too much to make it happen. This experience with his co-worker made him realize he has talent and he enjoys it. 

It's kind of a common part of the 20s from what I recall. I saw this with my friends. We were all journalism majors and I worked in TV briefly before realizing I was not very good at it and it was hard. Another friend doggedly pursued fame for a while until giving up on that after marriage. Another friend barely tried in journalism before becoming a mortgage specialist.  You graduate with big dreams and it takes a while to realize how realistic they are. 

[Primetimer]

If Hannah thought being a mom would mean being in charge, she's sadly disappointed.

View the full article

[scrb]

Hannah did try to be Jessa's friend just a couple of seasons ago, went with her to visit her relatives somewhere.

Jessa stranded her.

Then she called Hannah to pick her up from rehab and it turns out there was an airport right nearby.  The clinic wasn't holding her either, she could have left instead of insisting Hannah come up there.

[dmc]

Marnie's mom scatting literally made me choke on my wine LOLOLOLOL hilarious.

How does Marnie not know Desi was high...he could barely speak?

Sooo....are Jessa and Adam stupid? I mean seriously? Why do these two keep showing up and asking random sh*t? In real life, when this happens, the cheaters at least attempt to apologize or give you a lame excuse...these two don't even address it they just ask random sh*t...it's bizarre.

[Lunula]

This has been bugging me to no-end the past couple of episodes...I thought that Hannah went to the Hamptons and the guy she met/slept with, Paul-Louis, was a surfing instructor, no? Why do they keep calling him a water-ski instructor? 

Not sure how I feel about the Adam/Hannah stuff. Their relationship was always so incredibly unhealthy, but it's obvious he still cares about her opinion and watching the movie definitely brought up feelings for her, as well.

Why is the show making both Marnie & Jessa look like such horrible people? Granted, Marnie has never been very self-actualized, and Jessa has always been a narcissist - but this season seems to be going overboard to paint them as wholly unlikable and shitty. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Lunula

[taanja]

15 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Poor Soshonna. Was Zosia like checked out on set or something and therefore Soshonna gets no story. 

Snooze. I have wondered from the beginning why Shosh is even a "girl" She isn't friends with Hannah -- her only connection to any of them is through Jessa. And Jessa doesn't even really like her. She's a waste of time and space as far as I am concerned. I FF though most if not all her scenes.

[politichick]

31 minutes ago, Lunula said:

This has been bugging me to no-end the past couple of episodes...I thought that Hannah went to the Hamptons and the guy she met/slept with, Paul-Louis, was a surfing instructor, no? Why do they keep calling him a water-ski instructor? 

 

I think it's a symbol of how unconnected he is.

I hope that we are soon going to see more of Shoshana beause I actually really like her and she's my favorite girl next to Hannah. Enough of Marnie and her conceit. Nothing changes!

The scene with Hannah and Adam meeting may have been creative license because he absolutely does not have the temperament to work in a Whole Foods or whatever that was.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Soooooo much more chemistry between Adam and Fauxnah compared to Adam and Hannah. I am surprised that Adam didn't try or want to capture in the film character more of the sarcastic, self-conscious, entitled, presumptuous side of Hannah-- which for me is pretty much her essence.

But I do appreciate that Adam was willing to appear on camera with that hairstyle for the meet/cute scene.  

[LuciaMia]

I guess its true about Marnies self-absorption. Desi shows up on his cycle, practically drooling and she needs somebody else to clue her in that Desi's stoned out of his mind.

[dmc]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think it's more that Jessa has always been a shitty person and a toxic friend to Hannah who never returned Hannah's devotion, but that it took Jessa getting together with Adam and refusing to tell Hannah about it--even passive-aggressively picking a fight with Hannah so that she would have "permission" in her own mind--for the scales to fall from Hannah's eyes about how toxic Jessa really is. Jessa really did Hannah a favour in that sense. As for Marnie and Shoshanna, at least Marnie explained to Shosh what was going on, something Jessa never did for Hannah.

Hannah can no longer be bothered to give any fucks about Jessa, and it's glorious. Their conversation showed how horrible Jessa really is, in case it wasn't already abundantly clear; it's all about Jessa's feelings, Jessa's needs, and Jessa's wants. Not only does she not apologize even once, but look at what she does do. Jessa's response to Hannah's pregnancy is to show up uninvited without caring that Hannah doesn't want to see her; to inform Hannah that she was hurt by Hannah not telling her; to lay the "dear friend" line on Hannah which Hannah rightly identifies as total nonsense; to get upset when she realizes that Hannah is cutting her out of her life (since it underlines Jessa's irrelevance); and to start lobbing insults at her supposed "dear friend" like "psychopath" when it's clear she's not going to get what she wants and when Hannah refuses to rise to the bait. Fucking Jessa. What a bitch.

Judging from her ire at Hannah "erasing" her by no longer wanting anything to do with her, Jessa seemed to think that Hannah was supposed to be her friend forever, no matter how badly Jessa treated her. It doesn't work that way, of course, although of course Jessa would think that Hannah's previous devotion provided her with permanent access to Hannah that nothing Jessa did could erase.

Not that Adam is any better; he's whining about Hannah supposedly needing "closure," but, just like Jessa, he's desperately trying to find a way back into Hannah's life by any means necessary. What a piece of shit. 

 

5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I don't think we're supposed to think Adam's film is bad. And I think I like the chemistry with him and Faux-Hannah better than he and Actual-Hannah. I do not want them to be endgame. I don't want any of these folks to be each others' end game, including Ray and Shosh. I do like Hannah and Elijah as the baby-parents, and liked Elijah sort of apologizing. I love every single thing  about Elijah. Except his tighty whities. Gay men usually have better taste in underwear.

Did we know he worked at Bendel's before last nite? I have absolutely no problem with him becoming a Broadway diva, and I just hope he's cast in "Hedwig".

Skinny does not equal good body for me, especially too skinny. Skeletal is no more sexy than fat. Marnie looked kind of gorgeous last nite, to me (the smudgey eye did it for me) but she's way too skinny. I'm unsure who is more annoying, Marnie or her mom. I think her mom. I did like how happy Marnie was about Hannah's pregnancy, and I did like Hannah telling her it was no surprise that Ray dumped her cuz she's always such a cunt to him.

I liked the Hannah/Jessa scene. Jessa mostly deserves Hannah shutting her down, tho I'm unclear, still, on just how bad Jessa's friend-crime was. Hannah dumped Adam, Jessa didn't steal him. I'm not into snatching up your friends' past boyfriends, just in general, but nobody seems to care that Marnie did it to Shoshonna, and this is an ethically challenged group of friends anyway.

Hannah dated Adam a long time.  Yes, they broke up BUT she found out when she saw the two of them together.  If you start dating you friend's long term ex boyfriend without so much as courtesy conversation you are a jerk.

Marnie and Shoshana are not friends they are more acquaintances and both friends of Hannah. 

[LaJefaza]

I'm really, really behind on this show. Have they revealed who Hannah's baby's father is?

Edited March 20, 2017 by LaJefaza

[Slovenly Muse]

It's interesting. I don't really believe in "true love" or "the one," just in people finding people who are odd in the exact way they need or want. Like, in a relationship, every individual has things they need to give, and things they need to receive, in order to be happy with someone. It's like puzzle pieces: there are outie parts and innie parts (emotional, not physical), and when they match, it just clicks into place. Adam and Hannah maybe weren't some "grand love story for the ages," but they WORKED. Yes, he seemed to treat her poorly in the beginning of season one, but by the midpoint of the season, it was clear that he treated her like this because it's what SHE wanted. Her life was a mess and she needed someone to take some control for her. Adam was a "top" who needed to be in control, but also to use that control to nurture and help his partner. They may have looked screwed up from the outside, but they really were a great fit. Hannah needed someone to support and care for her without judging, and Adam found meaning and satisfaction in taking on a caretaker role. He always does, that's why he and Shiri Appleby's character were a disaster waiting to happen - the things he needed to give (light domination and caretaking) she was utterly unwilling to receive, and vice versa. It's why Mimi Rose was exactly the wrong fit for him (remember their abortion fight, and how what it boiled down to for him was "What do you even NEED me for?"), which is something Jessa would have realized immediately if she had thought for a moment about Adam or Mimi Rose, and not just had her sights set on clearing an obstacle between herself and Ace. (Was that his name? Ugh, that guy.) It's why Adam likes the idea of fatherhood, and is such a great pseudo-parent to baby Sample. And it's of course why, when he was hurt and rejected, he felt compelled to seek out someone vulnerable that he could take care of to make HIMSELF feel better, and it was Jessa (being in recovery makes her vulnerable, and you can't deny her life is a mess). Unfortunately, her issues are pretty impervious to resolution.

It's also why Fran was all wrong for Hannah - he was a "nice guy," but he was also controlling, and his shade of controlling was not nurturing, like Adam's. Keeping pictures of his exes on his phone as masturbatory aides (extending his feeling of control over them beyond their period of consent) was weird enough, but the instant he began correcting Hannah's marking for her, he was dead to me.

So, whether or not Adam's movie is supposed to be interpreted as "good" (we haven't seen enough to know), I think the important thing is how it reminds Hannah and Adam of just how well they fit together, when he needed to feel needed to give his life meaning, and she needed non-judgmental support to get her life on track. Was it co-dependent? Maybe a little. Was it unhealthy? I don't really think so. Or at least not insurmountably so. The fact that Hannah chose to leave to pursue her dream proves that she wasn't unhealthily dependent on Adam, IMO. And now, with the movie, they're both being reminded that no one else in their lives has ever been able to receive what they need to give, and give what they need to receive, the way they were with each other. I would not be at all surprised if they end up getting back together, or even repairing their relationship as friends, by the time the series is over.

[luna1122]

44 minutes ago, dmc said:

 

Hannah dated Adam a long time.  Yes, they broke up BUT she found out when she saw the two of them together.  If you start dating you friend's long term ex boyfriend without so much as courtesy conversation you are a jerk.

Marnie and Shoshana are not friends they are more acquaintances and both friends of Hannah. 

To be clear, I generally do think sleeping with/dating/getting involved with a friend's ex is bad form and I'd never do it. And my fondness for Jessa no doubt colors my view of the situation. I was unaware, tho, that all of the 'Girls' were not supposed to be friends, or at least, friendly. Marnie had already slept with Ray when she told Shosh, hadn't she? If Jessa had told Hannah instead of just letting her discover it, would that make a difference? Was Hannah's blow job/assault attempt on Ray something Hannah should have mentioned to Shosh? The lines of ethics and boundaries are really murky with this bunch.

[fnftw]

Geez, I could not dislike Jessa more. Every time I think we've reached the max of all that is vile, she somehow manages to top herself. I hope to God Hannah truly meant that she doesn't care anymore (though I get the feeling, unfortunately, that she will come around). I did not get the feeling like others seem to, that Adam's movie is leading in any way to a romantic reunion. That'd be disappointing. Adam was an important part of Hannah's life but it's done, and just like real life (in most cases), we don't keep dwelling on relationships from our early 20s, we move on. I can't see Lena not writing a more 'real' ending for Hannah and I do wish for Hannah to be free of both Adam and Jessa as she looks to her future.

[dmc]

9 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

To be clear, I generally do think sleeping with/dating/getting involved with a friend's ex is bad form and I'd never do it. And my fondness for Jessa no doubt colors my view of the situation. I was unaware, tho, that all of the 'Girls' were not supposed to be friends, or at least, friendly. Marnie had already slept with Ray when she told Shosh, hadn't she? If Jessa had told Hannah instead of just letting her discover it, would that make a difference? Was Hannah's blow job/assault attempt on Ray something Hannah should have mentioned to Shosh? The lines of ethics and boundaries are really murky with this bunch.

Agreed ethics are murky on this show. 

I mean my perception was always that Marnie and Shosh were more acquaintances than friends.  They interacted but I never saw either of them ask the other to do anything alone or any action on either of their part to do something just the two of them.   It was always in a group or Hannah invited both of them.  Honestly, Marnie doesn't even like Jessa.  When Jessa returns in the first episode, Hannah is the person that defends her to Marnie. 

That is part of the reason they are all taking Hannah's side because they are all Hannah's friends. 

I have a fondness for Jessa too, but I think that she is being a jerk right now.  And not just because of dating Adam, I think as a friend she at least owed Hannah the truth and some sort of talk regarding it.  Hannah has tried to be a good friend to her. And I think Jessa knows that, it's why she wants back in her life.

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, fnftw said:

I did not get the feeling like others seem to, that Adam's movie is leading in any way to a romantic reunion.

I didn't either, he's just trying to learn from it and move on.

[SlackerInc]

21 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I didn't either, he's just trying to learn from it and move on.

I was more open to that interpretation an episode earlier, but now it sure looks like they are aiming for them as "endgame", as people say here. 

[sugarbaker design]

I don't think this is that kind of show, I don't think the audience is going to get sentimental, tired, cheap endings with a big cliche bow tied around them.  Now I may be wrong, and I'll deal with that when and if it happens, but until then I'm shooting for some unconventional, decidedly unsentimental denouements.

[luna1122]

31 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I didn't either, he's just trying to learn from it and move on.

I hope this is true.

I hope for no big bow and no MR Big kind of wrap ups with Adam, and I have some faith they'll do it better than that. But I didn't think Hannah would wind up pregnant, either, so what do I know?

[sugarbaker design]

Just now, luna1122 said:

But I didn't think Hannah would wind up pregnant, either, so what do I know?

You and me both luna1122!!!

[TomGirl]

In case you haven't seen Andrew Rannells' show-stopping performance in Book of Mormon, here's a sample:

[cardigirl]

15 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I was more open to that interpretation an episode earlier, but now it sure looks like they are aiming for them as "endgame", as people say here. 

I felt that way this episode as well. I'm rather worried that they are headed for Hannah and Adam ending up together raising the baby together.  

8 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I don't think this is that kind of show, I don't think the audience is going to get sentimental, tired, cheap endings with a big cliche bow tied around them.  Now I may be wrong, and I'll deal with that when and if it happens, but until then I'm shooting for some unconventional, decidedly unsentimental denouements.

I hope so.  I have enjoyed this season more than the last few.  I'm invested more in the characters and not "hate-watching" I guess.  The stories this season are speaking to me, so either I'm getting younger, or they are getting more traditional.  But I will be kind of sad if the 'end game' was to get Hannah back with Adam.