S07.E13: Bury Me Here

[Boofish]

If I order a 6 piece nugget and I get home open the bag and there is only 5, I'm going back for my nugget. It's not the nugget, it's the principle. 

[paigow]

34 minutes ago, Boofish said:

If I order a 6 piece nugget and I get home open the bag and there is only 5, I'm going back for my nugget. It's not the nugget, it's the principle. 

If a Saviour is shift manager, it might be one of the bloodiest nugget wars in history....Lin Manuel Miranda might write some songs....

Edited March 13, 2017 by paigow

[walnutqueen]

41 minutes ago, paigow said:

So are you the Morgan of Cannabis instead of Cheese? Who has to die before you pull the trigger on your bug problem???

Imagine that poor Cheeseman's goat,  Then imagine my marijuana wanna-be buds.  Dead.

I have a recliner machete, purse ulu and car console hatchet instead of a long Morgan stick. Nobody's come for my foliage,  yet.  But I am fucking prepared!  :-)

[Dobian]

In the season finale, all the factions will engage the Saviors on the battlefield.  Negan will swagger out with Lucille and tell them to hand over their weapons before facing the consequences for their uppityness. 

"Oh sure, here you go, boss." (about 500 weapons change hands) "which one of us would you like to kill now?  Oh, and our next shipment is ready."

Edited March 13, 2017 by Dobian

[paigow]

1 minute ago, Dobian said:

In the season finale, all the factions will engage the Saviors on the battlefield.  Negan will swagger out with Lucille and tell them to hand over their weapons before facing the consequences for their uppityness....

Rosita fires another shot, but he is still talking so he bends backwards to safety...

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

So are you the Morgan of Cannabis instead of Cheese? Who has to die before you pull the trigger on your bug problem???

No sentient beings were harmed during the creation of my post.  :-)

 I still won't use chemicals, but am seriously considering an internet search on the qualities of cat pee.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

I don't think Negan gives a flying intercourse about a single cantaloupe.

I don't think Negan gives a flying intercourse about a DOZEN cantaloupes, to be honest.

What I *do* think Negan cares about is regular and repeated submissions to his authority. And each melon delivery is a symbolic representation of such submission.

Oh, I get that. But part of his whole thing is that the "offerings" need to be substantial. I just can't see him sending 6 dudes to pick up twelve fucking cantaloupes and thinking that's ENOUGH of an offering. 

[meep.meep]

14 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

OK they have NO business playing the sad Hershel's farm music ever again.

When did they play it?  This episode was so boring, I kept getting up and leaving the room.

They do reuse the music a lot.  My work has instituted what can only be described as "an enterprise solution" voicemail system.  When you successfully enter your password, it plays about a bar-ish of music, and I swear it's from TWD.  So every damn time I check my messages, I have the same reaction:  now Rick and Carol are hugging.

[diebartdie]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 that's ENOUGH of an offering. 

Dont forget, Negan is twisted! Today he shows up, ransacks your house and leaves with every towel, pillowcase, tee shirt, blanket and drape you have, on the way out the door he tells you that when he shows up next, he expects you to provide him with EXACTLY 43 eggs of silly putty, never opened. Next week, you give him that, he tells you he next wants EXACTLY 7 55 inch HD tv's WITH wall mounts. SOMETIMES it is about the amount of stuff. Other times it's about the quality of the stuff. Other ties it's about the uniqueness of the stuff. Hell, he might show up and demand EXACTLY 685 toothpicks.

It is NEVER about the stuff, the amount, the whatever. It's about Negan controlling people and pushing them to the edge just to see what will happen. Im sure Negan is pretty freeking amazed he's got SO MANY people wrapped around his little finger.

Edited March 13, 2017 by diebartdie
the usual

[Happy Harpy]

They killed my unicorn, bastards!

Among the shitload of characters they've introduced in the last two seasons, Ben and Richard were my favorite and the ones with the most potential imo. I kind of felt that Richard was doomed, but I thought Benjamin was in for a Break the Cutie rather than a Kill the Cutie. Benjamin as a sacrificial lamb makes sense emotionally and Richard's death had maximal shock value, but I'm afraid it's another case of near-sightedness. Jerry is cool and Ezekiel is probably the best addition to the show in a long time. Yet Jerry is a one-note comic relief and there is no other supporting player in the Kingdom left now, less one who has an embryo of relationship with CDB members. (And let's say I'm not impressed with the "acting", if you can call it that, of the bit players so far). Maybe it means that the Kingdom will be wiped out but for Ezekiel and Benjamin's brother.

This time, at least, Richard was ready to die himself. He "just" underestimated the Saviors' sadism. At least the tedious "tribute" scenes of the previous episodes finally made some sense, I could see how he was convinced he'd be the one Long Hair would kill under the most trifle pretext. I really felt a sense of despair in the actor's performance. There was no going back for Richard after his plan got Benjamin killed, and he was so far gone that before mourning this kid he liked, he thought of how he could use his death. He got what he wanted, in the end.

Maybe losing one's marbles is another virus on this show. After Richard, Morgan. Morgan is definitely a sanctimonious hypocrite for me. It doesn't mean that I don't feel for him or that he's always without a point (he had one with Carol here, for example). But it's easy  indeed to dismiss people's grief and anger, and stay all detached and philosophical, until grief and anger get to you personally. Although guilt is probably playing a heavy part here. If Morgan didn't speak against rallying Alexandria, Richard wouldn't have been so desperate to make Ezekiel face reality. I'm not absolving Richard, he was instrumental in Benjamin's death, he made his choice and is responsible for it; and maybe Ezekiel wouldn't have listened to Morgan anyway, his choice is on him, too. But in Morgan's anger, I felt that he blamed himself.

It's the most tragic: Richard was right. The Saviors are ready to kill for a cantaloupe, and it was a question of time before they did anyway. Because it isn't truly about a cantaloupe, it's about tyranny and humiliate/oppress people because they can. In the end, the Kingdom has to fight and they lost two people even before they began.

Morgan happening to kick the precise container where Richard hid the cantaloupe = me rolling my eyes at the coincidence.

It was an OK episode, but more interesting to discuss than to watch imo, thankfully Carol was there to make it engaging for me.  Loved the badass scenes, loved the emotional scenes. I liked how star-struck poor Benjamin was with her. I'm really digging her chemistry with Ezekiel.  And most important, she's back, hell yeah! I hope that with the help her old friends and new, she's going to find her new balance.

Termites version 2.0, your days are numbered. I hope. They should be (but yeah, the writers are going to drag it well into next season, right? Sigh).

Edited March 13, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[spacefly]

7 hours ago, DEL901 said:

 

When Morgan told Carol about Glenn and Abraham and the others being killed by Negan and his crew, why didn't he mention that that Eugene had been kidnapped?  Yes, it is tragic they are dead, but Eugene was not as far as Morgan knew.  Why does no one ever mention rescuing him?

 

Also seems as if they mention Glenn, Abraham, Spencer and Olivia being killed by saviors but do they ever mention Denise? She was also killed  by the saviors. She was the first.

Edited March 13, 2017 by spacefly

[walnutqueen]

36 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

When did they play it?  This episode was so boring, I kept getting up and leaving the room.

They do reuse the music a lot.  My work has instituted what can only be described as "an enterprise solution" voicemail system.  When you successfully enter your password, it plays about a bar-ish of music, and I swear it's from TWD.  So every damn time I check my messages, I have the same reaction:  now Rick and Carol are hugging.

I'm old and fairly addled so they may NOT have played that music.  Look at the flowers, walnutqueen ... just count the flowers.

[meep.meep]

Don't do that!  You'll see more bugs.

They sound like tomato hornworms which can just be picked off.

Ob episode.....  How come no one but the folks from CDB ever get maimed in the zombie apocalypse?  Hershel lost his foot.  Carl lost an eye.  Everybody else, boom you're dead, with no in between.  At the very least, with everyone waiving knives and machetes and axes and swords, that there would be a higher percentage of accidents.

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, meep.meep said:

Don't do that!  You'll see more bugs.

They sound like tomato hornworms which can just be picked off.

Ob episode.....  How come no one but the folks from CDB ever get maimed in the zombie apocalypse?  Hershel lost his foot.  Carl lost an eye.  Everybody else, boom you're dead, with no in between.  At the very least, with everyone waiving knives and machetes and axes and swords, that there would be a higher percentage of accidents.

Next you'll be wondering why no one ever gets an infection from a wound.

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

So are you the Morgan of Cannabis instead of Cheese? Who has to die before you pull the trigger on your bug problem???

Apparently Morgan's deep dark pain, and Cheeseman's semi-suicidal arc, are A-OK, but my jokes get deleted. I have failed at Cheese making AND marijuana growing.  Still wanna try tiger cub rehab  before I die...   And GOATS.

 

 

ETA _ hornworms!!! They be the culprits, alrighty then.

Edited March 13, 2017 by walnutqueen

[sarthaz]

It's irritating how they telegraph so many deaths with sloppy writing.  5 minutes in, you know that kid's going to die as they throw a season's worth of character development at him in a manner of minutes: brings Morgan the artwork, thanks him for the book, kid brother wants to be like him, adults talk about him in the distance, he's interested in some girl, and then the coup de grace ... some awkward scene where he offers to skip the drop to follow Carol around.  TELEGRAPH!  Kid's totally going to be stuffed in a fridge on that drop just to motivate the real characters into action.  Almost as bad as when they spent a whole episode telegraphing Beth's death just so Daryl could feel bad about it (and Maggie, I guess, if she even remembers Beth).

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Will Morgan Forsake The Kingdom On The Walking Dead?

Even if so, he might still be up for some power and glory.

[Dobian]

49 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Next you'll be wondering why no one ever gets an infection from a wound.

These people get splattered with zombie blood and guts all the time.  It goes in their eyes, their mouths, ears, up their noses.  And if they have any cut or scrape it's landing on that.  Who knows what little germs were on that spike that went through Rick's hand?  But everyone is just fine so long as they're not actually bitten.

[nodorothyparker]

We did see residents of the Kingdom missing limbs when Ezekiel was giving CDB a tour and they passed archery practice.  He mentioned they'd suffered losses too.  It was a blink and you'll miss it thing as Rick's crew was pretty busy sneering at Ezekiel at the time for not immediately hopping to.

[AngelaHunter]

15 hours ago, shanndee said:

There have been numerous studies about diffusion of responsibility. The more people who witness an incident, the less likely anyone is to respond. They expect someone else will do something. The general population of the Kingdom waited for Ezekiel, but Ezekiel was shocked into paralysis. (see the murder of Kitty Genovese (Sp?) in front of entire apartment complex). People often simply don't/can't react.

JMO, but the murder of Ms. Genovese is not really comparable. Had there been a line of post-apocalyptic male survivors standing right in front of Kitty (who would be someone they'd known for a long time, just as the Kingdom folk have known Richard) and her murderer, I'm pretty sure they would have done something - even if someone told them not to -  and not stood there watching their friend/neighbour/co-worker even, being stabbed over and over. Yes, I can understand Zeke et al being confused into inaction for a second when Morgan attacked Richard with Mr. Stick, but not while the murder of one of their own went on and on.

I dunno, and it's probably just me, but Morgan picked a strange situation to decide it's time for him to start killing again. He could have done that when the Wolves were slicing and dicing his neighbours and providers at Alexandria, but he chooses to attack an unarmed man from behind, knock him down and strangle him. He could have at least shoved his Stick into the base of Richard's skull and made it quick, but somehow he knew he could take his sweet time and that no one would interfere, even verbally.

1 hour ago, spacefly said:

Also seems as if they mention Glenn, Abraham, Spencer and Olivia being killed by saviors but do they ever mention Denise? She was also killed  by the saviors. She was the first.

Who cares about her? She wasn't "hot."

[Grace284]

8 hours ago, DEL901 said:

When Morgan told Carol about Glenn and Abraham and the others being killed by Negan and his crew, why didn't he mention that that Eugene had been kidnapped?  Yes, it is tragic they are dead, but Eugene was not as far as Morgan knew.  Why does no one ever mention rescuing him?

Sssh, maybe if we don't mention it the writers will forget about him and we'll be mercifully spared his continued presence.

Morgan is such a frustrating character I almost forgot what a superb actor Lennie James is. That was fantastic work from him.

[Mu Shu]

will rat faced middle manager and Not Daryl join forces and turn against Negan?  

Damn Richard.  Just shoot yourself.  Getting choked out has to be worse.  Though I must say I liked the Richard story.  It was sold pretty well.  Unlike the kid in the overalls.  Get an acting coach, that talk of boll weevils and fear of tigers was painful to listen to.  Like Beth levels of bad acting.

That busted ass Axel  Rose guy needs to get killed real good.  However, the actor is great at being an asshole.  

I guess Morgan sharpening his stick signifies he's not playing around and just smacking with the stick no more.  Stab a lot, Morgan! 

A good episode.  But I agree with the Saviors-The Your Majesty thing makes me stabby.  He's a fucking guy in a bad wig with a nice butt. 

[Ocean Chick]

4 hours ago, DonitsYum said:

This!   I'm actually shocked that nobody driving by has seen her outside gardening and been like "let's hit that place, it's just some lady"

I have to fanwank that the Saviors would think that Carol's house was someplace IN the Kingdom, as they'd never been inside it.  And obviously they'd never demanded medical supplies from the Kingdom either, since they weren't all up in arms about the Kingdom having some.

[nodorothyparker]

I can buy that this was Morgan's particular breaking point.  Everything else that he's been caught up in up until now he could fight his way out without anyone having to die and thus could justify to himself that it could be done.  If the Wolves he let go happened to attack Rick later somewhere else, that was an out of sight out of mind thing for him.  I honestly think it was Richard spilling his guts and then spilling some more about how his own inaction early on cost him his family in a story that eerily mirrored Morgan's own that pushed Morgan past the point of no return.  Remember that Duane was eaten because Morgan couldn't bring himself to put his wife down and that his guilt over that is what drove him into crazy town by the time we caught back up with him in Clear.  So when Richard tells a similar story and tries to justify everything he did that got everybody's surrogate son Benjamin killed as this time he is being proactive, it set off all the crazy flares in Morgan's head and he decides this won't be another case where he doesn't act either.  It's a nice touch that the writing makes Richard a fun house mirror version of Morgan for Morgan to see himself in.

On rewatch, Ezekiel does yell at Morgan several times to stop but doesn't make any actual move to intervene.  I assume we're to think he's freezing up at what he's seeing.  The rest of the Kingdom crew are clearly poised to move but keep looking to Ezekiel and waiting for direction, which obviously doesn't come.

[okerry]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

A good episode.  But I agree with the Saviors-The Your Majesty thing makes me stabby.  He's a fucking guy in a bad wig with a nice butt. 

And a real live tiger that does whatever he says.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

Get an acting coach, that talk of boll weevils and fear of tigers was painful to listen to.  Like Beth levels of bad acting.

Oh gawd, I do agree. So - I liked Richard. He seemed like a real person to me - stressed, depressed and a little unbalanced -  and in a show populated with super-duper badasses, ninjas, cartoons and now a cutsey woman who is cutely afraid of the tiger ("This is your cue to smile, audience.") that means a lot.

"Your Majesty" just makes me wince.

[Dodginblue]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Oh, I get that. But part of his whole thing is that the "offerings" need to be substantial. I just can't see him sending 6 dudes to pick up twelve fucking cantaloupes and thinking that's ENOUGH of an offering. 

I don't know how much Negan is controlling these drops directly, the timing or whatever.  I think it might be his lieutenants that are calling those shots.  And presumably it's some kind of set schedule?  It's not like they can call or email and say, hey we're coming by in an hour better have 12 cantaloupes ready.  But then I think I must have missed something because I don't know how the number of cantaloupes was specified to begin with.  Maybe that's always the minimum number if it's fruit or vegetables or something?

[diebartdie]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Who cares about [Denise]? She wasn't "hot."

I thought she was....Tara too (but Im a lesbian so...)

[meep.meep]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

We did see residents of the Kingdom missing limbs when Ezekiel was giving CDB a tour and they passed archery practice.  He mentioned they'd suffered losses too.  It was a blink and you'll miss it thing as Rick's crew was pretty busy sneering at Ezekiel at the time for not immediately hopping to.

Thanks.  Maybe I just blinked at the wrong point.  

[AngelaHunter]

Just now, diebartdie said:

I thought she was....Tara too (but Im a lesbian so...)

I'm hetero, but I really liked her. She was someone else I considered to be a "real person" but she wasn't what is these days considered "hot" - skinny as hell with very large (usually fake), yet perky breasts.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

I can buy that this was Morgan's particular breaking point.

I don't know, it bothered me a bit.  I liked the episode, probably the best of the half season, as has been said.  But Morgan has been through all this stuff, the Wolves, the Saviors, Glenn, Abraham, and the others getting killed.  And the thing that sets him off is Richard wants to sacrifice himself?  Okay, it's more related to Benjamin getting killed.  But the Saviors killed intentionally, and that was okay?  Richards accidentally, indirectly gets someone killed, and Morgan decides to choke him out?  Just seems a little off to me, so I had to mention it.

While we're at it, since now he wants to kill Saviors, why does he have to do it on his own?  Why can't he part of the united front against them?  Wouldn't that be more useful?

[nodorothyparker]

Morgan wasn't there for Glenn or Abe or any of the others being killed.  Other than killing the Savior chasing after Carol because he "had to," his only exposure to the Saviors has been the produce dropoffs, which until now have avoided bloodshed.  He also didn't go along on Rick's murder spree to the Savior outpost.  It's actually been pretty quiet for him since he stopped Carol from killing his pet Wolf.

I assumed he thought he was heading back into the crazy kill 'em all head space he was in before he met the cheesemaker and so thought he'd have to be doing it solo until Carol pulled him back.

[TigerLynx]

I don't think Morgan was ever okay.  That's why he keeps going to extremes.  That's what Zeke, the other Kingdom people, and the Saviors saw.  Morgan was barely holding it together, and now he's lost it.

The Rat Faced Savior has been dealing with long hair and Richard causing him problems at the drop, and now he knows there is a worse problem.  Long hair killed a boy everyone in the Kingdom cared about, and Morgan, someone who seemed to understand the status quo has lost it.  Morgan beat and strangled Richard to death in front of everyone then told Rat Face it was necessary.  Rat Face thought he had to keep long hair and Richard in line in order to maintain control, and now that's been literally shot to hell.

As several posters have pointed out, Negan's system is based on terror, brutality, and reward.  Negan beats people to death with a bat.  Morgan just strangled a man with his bare hands.  It's difficult to keep someone capable of that in line.  It's difficult to control someone with terror when they are scarier than you are.

[walnutqueen]

10 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

 Maybe that's always the minimum number if it's fruit or vegetables or something?

I'm German, and basically live for meat & potatoes.  There are fruits & vegetables even my backyard possums & skunks won't eat.

 

8 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

I thought she was....Tara too (but Im a lesbian so...)

Shite - does this mean I have to question my own sexuality, after the fact?  'Cause I may have declared some lurve for you - and Carol, and Daryl, long after my libido left the building.

 

8 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Thanks.  Maybe I just blinked at the wrong point.  

You and Coral ...

 

4 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm hetero, but I really liked her. She was someone else I considered to be a "real person" but she wasn't what is these days considered "hot" - skinny as hell with very large (usually fake), yet perky breasts.

Oh, you make me weep, Angelic Huntress - I was once "hot" and skinny as hell with totally natural perky breasts ...  :-(

[ShadowSixx]

Finally watched it.

I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would. Richard deserved to die for setting that stupid plan up with making them late and making the Kingdom short on supplies. He caused Benjamin to die which I absolutely hated. I liked Benjamin and was giving Richard the benefit of the doubt. I hated seeing Benjamin die it really upset me.

Finally woke Morgan up and since he called Benjamin, Duane I think he looked at Benjamin like a son. Hopefully this leads to Carol and Morgan getting out of their stupid bullshit life is precious/I need to be alone crap. Maybe they can redeem themselves.

Carol is still a rude bitch just entering the Kingdom in the beginning like she owned the place and just demanding to know where Morgan is. Ugh. I'm on the verge of wanting someone to just kill her though.

That guy with the long hair with the Saviors needs to die PRONTO. Hopefully Sasha snipes his ass.

[magemaud]

9 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

Just as an FYI, I think the boy who plays Henry, Ben's little brother, is actually the younger brother of Madison, who played Sophia.  If true, that would be cool.

You're right! Great catch: http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Macsen_Lintz

[mightysparrow]

I think Morgan killing Richard wasn't just him deciding it was time to start killing again.  I think it was a sign that Morgan has lost his mind. That's why he called Benjamin 'Duane'.  He might not be in total 'Clear' mode, but he's on his way.  I find it heartbreaking because he fought so hard for his sanity.  It's all well and good to cling to the philosophy that killing is essential, but it's no way for a human being to live.  The tragedy of Abe's death was that he had just decided that he had something to LIVE for.   Every person who thinks life is cheap on this show is a total nutter. 

Carol and Morgan often get linked together (I've done it) but the truth is that they're complete opposites.  Morgan might have decided that he won't take a life but he's still willing to be a part of a community.  He didn't need to kill the Wolves to save Daryl and Aaron and it wasn't Morgan's fault that the Wolves attacked Alexandria.  Unlike Carol, Morgan doesn't walk around acting like the world owes him something because he's been through some shit.  Name a person on TWD who hasn't had it as bad as Carol (or worse).  Yet she thinks she's so fucking special.

I have to say I'm a bit confused about the Kingdom people just standing there while Morgan choked the life out of Richard.  They've only just met Morgan; they KNEW Richard.  There were enough of them to pull Morgan off Richard.  But they stand there and watch and then, after Richard's dead, Ezekiel announces that the Kingdom was going to war.  Which is what Richard wanted in the first place.

The makers of the show seem to think that people who advocate for peace are 'weak' and killing is cool.  That might be fitting for a show about zombies, but it's makes for repetitive storylines.

[Macbeth]

11 hours ago, qtpye said:

I officially enjoy the Kingdom and Zeke more then Rick and his crew.  I just need Michonne to move to the Kingdom and I would not mind if this group is the main focus of the show.  Michonne and Zeke can start a club about how to maintain awesome hair in ZA.  Carol can also join because her hair cut is always on point after she grew out the unfortunate buzz cut look.

Darryl is not allowed with that oily mop of his. 

[lmsweb]

Actually, there is one thing that Carol has had to endure that the others have not, unless I'm forgetting something.

She had to shoot a child in the back of the head. Granted, Lizzie was a homicidal, mentally ill child, but still...killing a child would push most people over the edge. That episode still haunts me.

[mightysparrow]

5 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Actually, there is one thing that Carol has had to endure that the others have not, unless I'm forgetting something.

She had to shoot a child in the back of the head. Granted, Lizzie was a homicidal, mentally ill child, but still...killing a child would push most people over the edge. That episode still haunts me.

Is that worse than losing your wife and then three days later, losing your child.  A lot of people sneered at Richard when he told his story but isn't that pretty horrible?  Coming home to see your baby turned because your lover was getting high is traumatic, but Michonne wasn't allowed to feel sorry for herself.  She wasn't even allowed to have a bit of an attitude.  Watching your father get his head cut off, then seeing your sister carried out with part of her head missing and THEN watching while your husband gets his head bashed in by a lunatic is pretty damn awful, but Maggie doesn't get to withdraw and expect the world to care for her. 

I've never shot a child in the head so I don't know if it's the most horrible thing that could ever happen.  But I've also never terrorized a child to the point where he loses his mind, withdraws into his room and then starts wailing the ONE TIME he needed to keep his mouth shut.

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

JMO, but the murder of Ms. Genovese is not really comparable. Had there been a line of post-apocalyptic male survivors standing right in front of Kitty (who would be someone they'd known for a long time, just as the Kingdom folk have known Richard) and her murderer, I'm pretty sure they would have done something - even if someone told them not to -  and not stood there watching their friend/neighbour/co-worker even, being stabbed over and over.

There were less than 38 witnesses to that poor woman's murder, at least, according to the ID Channel.  And there were no Southern gentlemen with oversized Coral sheriff hats to come to her rescue - only a bunch of fedora wearing 1950's assholes and Alice Kravitz cotton housedress wearing peepers who watched that shit go down for far too long, without picking up their long-corded Princess telephones.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I don't know, it bothered me a bit.  I liked the episode, probably the best of the half season, as has been said.  But Morgan has been through all this stuff, the Wolves, the Saviors, Glenn, Abraham, and the others getting killed.  And the thing that sets him off is Richard wants to sacrifice himself?  Okay, it's more related to Benjamin getting killed.  But the Saviors killed intentionally, and that was okay?  Richards accidentally, indirectly gets someone killed, and Morgan decides to choke him out?  Just seems a little off to me, so I had to mention it.

I think a big part of it was that he was immediately executing the long con Richard had planned to lull them back into a sense of normalcy and the belief that the Kingdom was back on board.  In one dramatic move he convinced the Saviors that he wouldn't tolerate that insubordination, when in reality he had decided it was time to end them.  So part of it was him killing Richard because he was furious over Benjamin, but part of it was very calculated and strategic.  Otherwise, he would have just killed Richard when he confronted him in his room.

[festivus]

Bad things have happened to all of them and they all react differently to it. Just like real people would. I've never thought that Carol expected the world to care for her. She tried to leave and she told Morgan to leave her alone and he wouldn't listen. I think he saw a kindred spirit that was just as messed up as he once was and he wanted to help her. Now it's her turn to help him. Morgan and Carol's story is my favorite thing on the show and the only thing these days that actually feels real to me. 

[paigow]

29 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Actually, there is one thing that Carol has had to endure that the others have not, unless I'm forgetting something.

She had to shoot a child in the back of the head. Granted, Lizzie was a homicidal, mentally ill child, but still...killing a child would push most people over the edge. That episode still haunts me.

Carl shot a kid through the FRONT of the head AND killed his own mother...Advantage Carl....

[diebartdie]

11 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I've never shot a child in the head so I don't know if it's the most horrible thing that could ever happen.

You've also only ever walked miles upon miles in your own shoes. Everyone processes life in their unique way. One baby is born, nothing bothers that child, not loud noises, not cigarette smoke, not being fed irregularly. Another baby is born who screams when certain textures touch her skin. Who know why everyone does life differently but we all do. Michonne turned herself into a living walker for who knows how long until she met Andrea, isnt that kinda the same as what Carol has done? Maggie is preggers but she's also fully mentally ready for war, isnt that same as what Carol has done in the (recent) past? Sure Carol can come across as a bit of a bitch sometimes but who doesnt? Seriously, name one human being who doesnt act like an entitled shit at SOME point in their life. Sure, no one should be like that ever, just like we should all treat each other with love and respect at all times....but we dont. Carol is not this horrible harridan intent on destroying the soul of every young person she comes across, in fact she's trying desperately to not ever _have_ to do anything like that ever again. She knows though that unless she just goes far far away OR kills herself she will have to kill again, she will have to do horrible, soul destroying things. She's fucked up...but so is Rick...and Michonne...and Coral...and Darryl....and Maggine...and Sasha...and Rosita...and Negan....and Eugene...and...and...and... They live in a sorrowful world full of sick and sickening choices.

[nodorothyparker]

I've never understood why we should treat this like some kind of tragedy olympics or competition.  All of these people should be insane after the things they've seen and had to do.  Some of them have processed some really really awful stuff better than others.  And some haven't.  There's no real story there if they're all handling it uniformly the way we think they should.

In the beginning of the episode, Carol was still very much in her don't pause, don't feel mode as she blew past Benjamin.  I'm not sure how much of that she thought was about protecting herself and how much of it given her awful track record where children and young people are concerned she thought was about protecting him from her.  But in the end it didn't matter and she finally realized that.  Once you got past the schmaltzy ending with her officially moving to the Kingdom to dig in the garden with Ezekiel and the kid whose name I still don't know, I was really struck by the fact that that had to be the first time we've seen her approach any situation with a child in it with anything resembling normalcy instead of acting like the kid was radioactive at least since the prison.  Because she was making that choice to get out of her own head and rejoin the living.

[tennisgurl]

I actually thought this was a solid enough episode. I would always hang out in The Kingdom than hang out with the Saviors and their never ending evil speeches. Although, I will say, the Kingdom leason is probably the least awful Savior we`ve met so far in an authority position. I mean, he's an asshole willing to kill a guy over a cantaloupe, but he doesn't seem to be an asshole just to be an asshole. He seemed like he was going to kill Richard just because its his job to enforce Negans rules and remind everyone whos in charge, not because he's just a psycho who likes killing.  Although, I did roll my eyes at him giving Ezekiel shit for the King stuff, when he's part of a community that worships their psychotic gym teacher like some kind of god emperor, including kneeling in his presence. At least the Kingdom people don't really think Ezekiel is an actual king, and they just do all this stuff to give their lives some order.

I was sad to see Benjamin and Richard go. They were probably two of the better new characters, and it sucks we wont see them around anymore. On the other hand, as long as the tiger lives, I'm happy. I automatically side with anyone who has a tiger.

So, now Morgan's killing people again. Thank God. Not that I want him to all fucked up and back to killing, and in any other show, I would applaud his non violence, but...its TWD. Violence is the answer 94% of the time. We all know Morgan is going to start killing again in time to fight the Saviors, lets just get on with it. Its a good thing the actor does such a good job, it made me really buy his struggle.

I'm looking forward to having everyone in the same place to fight the Saviors. I know we have like 75 billion characters on this show at this point, all in different locations, but its annoying that we have to go weeks to see what main characters are doing week by week. They know they CAN cut between different locations right? The cameras don't have to stay on one set or with one or two people by week! 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, ShadowSixx said:

Carol is still a rude bitch just entering the Kingdom in the beginning like she owned the place and just demanding to know where Morgan is. Ugh. I'm on the verge of wanting someone to just kill her though.

She is quite rude.  And Morgan and Ezekiel piss me off because they treat her like she's some damn queen or something. They act like her shit don't stink.

[ShadowSixx]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

She is quite rude.  And Morgan and Ezekiel piss me off because they treat her like she's some damn queen or something. They act like her shit don't stink.

I think Ezekiel wants Carol as his queen to help him rule over Kingdom.

[TigerLynx]

25 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I've never understood why we should treat this like some kind of tragedy olympics or competition.  All of these people should be insane after the things they've seen and had to do.  Some of them have processed some really really awful stuff better than others.  And some haven't.  There's no real story there if they're all handling it uniformly the way we think they should.

I agree they are all dealing with things in different ways.  Morgan, Zeke, and Rick thought it was better to make a deal (providing tribute to Negan and the Saviors) that they didn't necessarily like, but that might save lives.  Carol thought if she went away that would solve her problem.  Maggie, Sasha, Michonne and Carl wanted to fight from the get go.  Now they have all come to the realization that you can't make a deal with a psycho like Negan and his merry band of psycho henchmen especially when there are idiots like long haired Savior who will rock the boat just to make himself feel big, and someone like Richard who will come up with a convoluted dumb plan that gets someone else killed.

Edited March 14, 2017 by TigerLynx