S21.E12: The Final Rose/S21.E13: After the Final Rose

[KLovestoShop]

On March 14, 2017 at 0:52 AM, PetuniaP said:

Yeah, sorry, your friend's co-workers sound pretty ignorant and gross. The demonization of discussing race is exactly why it took the Bachelor franchise so long to finally diversify. I'm sure plenty of people will tune in to watch Rachel find "love", just like on every season of this show...shitty comments like the ones these coworkers made notwithstanding.

I was surprised when Wendy Williams discussed this on her show, she said that it was a mistake for Rachel to take part in this show because it's demeaning to someone with her family background and her education and job.  I was surprised that a black woman would be so against the show finally having a minority as the star.  WW said that with Rachel's father being a judge and all that, and with Rachel maybe having the opportunity to become a judge herself one day, why would a girl like her have to go on reality TV?

[Former Nun]

12 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

 WW said that with Rachel's father being a judge and all that, and with Rachel maybe having the opportunity to become a judge herself one day, why would a girl like her have to go on reality TV?

I share that sentiment and hope WW would have said the same thing about a girl of any race.  That said, these people just NEED to be on television.  They're probably all hoping to be the next Kardashian...now that one needs no singing, acting, dancing talent to make it on "the tee-vee."

[TiaLou]

Quote

I wonder why the hell V went on the Bachelor

Pretty sure it was for the exposure. I think Vanessa's attempts to establish her acting/Hollywood career have been extraordinarily minimized.

But: I do think Nick's preference for her was set early on and was (is?) sincere. (And maybe she likes him back, who knows.) 

It's been discussed on this board over this season that Nick might not have been a great choice to be The Bachelor as apparently he is deeply monogamous -- ie, he was never going to do a good job at having or faking romantic feelings for more than one woman at a time. I don't think he had sex with either Rachel or Raven in the fantasy suites; he had been confused and hurt that Andi had sex with him and then didn't choose him. He wasn't going to do that to either Rachel or Raven.

Speaking of the fantasy suites, maybe the contestants are under some sort of death-threatening contract so they can't talk details, but don't you think that at least in SOME seasons (like this one), the Bachelor/ette tells his/her favorite that s/he is the one? I just can't believe that hasn't happened before.

[KenyaJ]

31 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

WW said that with Rachel's father being a judge and all that, and with Rachel maybe having the opportunity to become a judge herself one day, why would a girl like her have to go on reality TV?

At a base level, I suppose every attorney potentially has the opportunity to be a judge. However, the probability of becoming a judge is not high, especially at the federal level. There are so many factors that go into selecting federal judges and most of them are outside the control of those who aspire to be judges. In other words, Rachel wouldn't have an inside track on becoming a federal judge just because her dad is one, so Wendy is over-simplifying things by suggesting she has the opportunity to be a judge.

On top of that, maybe Rachel doesn't aspire to be a judge. I'm clerking for my fifth federal judge, and as much as I love it, it's convinced me that I absolutely do not want to be a judge myself. Rachel's had enough exposure to her dad's job to decide whether that's something she wants for herself. She's also smart enough to know that being the Bachelorette wouldn't be disqualifying, but probably is not the path to a judgeship. I think it's kind of insulting for Wendy to act like she's given more though to Rachel's future than Rachel has. 

[catrice2]

In general most Black people I know think this show is  a mess and do not want their daughters or sons on it, doesn't matter what their job is  I did not see Wendy Williams, but that may be what prompted  I can only speak for the people I know, but over the years most have thought it was just a bunch of desperate, silly people who didn't care about embarrassing themselves or their families.   To be clear, these people also did not like Flavor of Love or any other dating show, not just the ones that did not seriously include minorities.   I have not, however, had the chance to talk to older women since all the promoting opportunities came about.   I was younger when it came out and can remember my mom and her friends talking about how they would be mortified if one of their children even thought about it, especially the aspect of "going to the fantasy suite" when the person goes with two other people.  For most of the church going women I know, that is just too much, and the men I know would not be caught dead watching the show. I banned my step daughter from watching the show when she was little because I felt it gave a message that I did not want her exposed to, and I still feel that way.

 

   I think Rachel did the show because everyone convinced her she was breaking some big barrier but again, why not?   It had to be incredibly appealing  to have free travel, a stylist, etc. dangled in front of you. Once I found out the financial incentives I could put aside my common sense for a few weeks/month of my life to be more financially secure.  If that makes me shallow, o.k. 

I snarked on it so bad to my friend that we had a big long talk about my thinking I was "above" it, so I agreed to watch last year.  I think it is harmless fun if you don't take it too seriously, are old enough to understand that a man does not determine you worth and discard you, etc. Since I read the boards she is thrilled that she can talk to me about it, up to a point.   I worry about the people who act as if they KNOW these people and their decisions affect them in some way.  I may offer my opinions about things, but I don' t take this to heart because  I  realize that they edit things so heavily that you have no idea what these people are really like and that they are real people with real feelings.  They have to, however, take some accountability for what they put out there because it was a choice. 

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, KLovestoShop said:

 I was surprised that a black woman would be so against the show finally having a minority as the star.

Goodness knows that on most days I have no time for Wendy and her stupidity. However, I see her point on this and I don't think it has anything to do with diversity and minority representation. The fact of the matter is this whole franchise is incredibly creepy and icky when you really think about it. And that is why it's always amusing to me when viewers and fans of the show play the game of my fave is less of a famewhore and classier than the other one. As I've said before, I side-eye any and everyone that has done this show, whether I like them or not. 

This isn't a talent competition like The Voice where okay, you're someone who has aspirations of being a singer and the show provides a platform to recognize that dream. It's "I will find my husband/wife while they are dating and may possibly sleep with multiple people in the space of 8 weeks". It is ridiculous when you really think about and say it out loud. So I think Wendy's point is that it makes no sense for this beautiful and accomplished woman to put herself in this farce.

Hell I felt like when Rachel was on The Ellen Show, Ellen came just this close to saying something in that vein. She basically complimented Rachel and then told her that everything she's seen certainly makes her think Rachel is an amazing woman, so is this really the way she needs to find a husband? Again, I could tell Ellen liked her so she didn't want to be rude and really snarky but the undertone was clearly there. 

[catrice2]

See, this is what kind of annoys me. Why do people act as if  other Black people should be so HAPPY that the franchise finally decided to "give a minority a shot," at being the lead?   People are acting as if this somehow validates miniorities...we are now good enough for the Bachelor!  I know plenty of Black people who are against the franchise having a black lead, Wendy is not a minority there.   I can understand some of the younger women who have nothing substantial going for them, but the only thing that makes sense to me for Rachel is the financial incentives. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by catrice2

[MakeMeLaugh]

Of all the things any group could be proud of, breaking the Bachelorette ceiling has to be pretty far down on the list; really far. But I look forward as a random viewer to Rachel's season because she seems to be interesting and is a lot like Emily in being poised and gracious, based on the twenty minutes she was on AFR (I did not watch the rest of the Bachelor because Nick, ick) where she rolled with the meet-four-guys-the-season-starts-NOW ambush from Chris Harrison even though we could see how shocked she was at that little development. We see a lot of extremely tough and sad situations the past couple of years on the Chicago TV news and in the Chicago papers for Black people, so Rachel might be a nice counterpoint of normalcy for some people who don't realize there is a whole range of people out there. All women should have the opportunity if they wish of having editing monkeys make them look like princesses or idiots; the EMs were apparently very kind to her on the Bachelor, so she should sail through without too much damage. 

I am not Black, but I have been noticing that advertising, for example, is and has been for a long time full of interracial couples--the Bachelor franchise is hilarious in considering Rachel's casting to be groundbreaking. I hope we don't get hit over the head with groundbreakingness or with forced discussions (and stupid commentary like bachelor no. 3 Dean said on Monday night--see, that's why we can't have live TV) on race. If Rachel wants to bring it up, good on her, but if not, let it go, Show.

[Stinamaia]

On 3/14/2017 at 2:33 PM, RHJunkie said:

They literally advertised casting for the Bachelorette during last night's episode of the Bachelor and Live AFR show. Could have just been an error on their part but I assumed that they were still casting and vetting for Rachel's season given that they were still promoting casting and that Rachel was only officially cast less than a month ago and she was promoting casting. Maybe they've already recruited a number of Bachelors outside of the last couple of months of advertising...or maybe I'm just underestimating how quickly the vetting process is for casting.

The guys for the show have already been picked.  The show has that advertisement every season.  It's really a casting call for the next season. I think they do it to promote the show and make it look more real time. As far as I know Rachel will begin filming this week.  They usually film The Bachelorette right after The Bachelor ends showing. . Then a break for BIP, then The Bachelor films. I think Nick finished filming in November. 

[Stinamaia]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

See, this is what kind of annoys me. Why do people act as if  other Black people should be so HAPPY that the franchise finally decided to "give a minority a shot," at being the lead?   People are acting as if this somehow validates miniorities...we are now good enough for the Bachelor!  I know plenty of Black people who are against the franchise having a black lead, Wendy is not a minority there.   I can understand some of the younger women who have nothing substantial going for them, but the only thing that makes sense to me for Rachel is the financial incentives. 

Oh, probably we should go to the Bachelorette for this, but I am lazy.  Rachel, from what I got from looking her up as a lawyer, had an interest in sports management in law school and got a job in that area before deciding to return to Dallas.  She may want to get into the broadcasting side of the business or raise her profile for employment with a sports management firm.  I mean, of course IN ADDITION to finding true love which is the only only ever reason for doing the show, 

[catrice2]

1 minute ago, Stinamaia said:

Oh, probably we should go to the Bachelorette for this, but I am lazy.  Rachel, from what I got from looking her up as a lawyer, had an interest in sports management in law school and got a job in that area before deciding to return to Dallas.  She may want to get into the broadcasting side of the business or raise her profile for employment with a sports management firm.  I mean, of course IN ADDITION to finding true love which is the only only ever reason for doing the show, 

Yep, I said the same thing I think in the Bachelorette thread.  Since she likes sports so much I can see her parlaying this into something along those lines.  I can see her doing that rather than promoting on instagram or starting some type of blog. 

[fib]

I dont think she is going to get a lot of Cross Country skiers to use her agency, based on what we've seen so far.  

I just hope the show treats Rachel well.  I dont want this to be an ashley season where they allow a horrible contestant to manipulate the hell out of the lead.  We've seen that often enough that i understand WW's fears.  

But being the lead is also an amazing opportunity.  And i hope Rachel hires a pr person on her own to help her navigate the tricky waters she will likely face when her season airs.  Because you cant trust the show to do you right.  They have their own agenda.  

[RHJunkie]

17 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

The guys for the show have already been picked.  The show has that advertisement every season.  It's really a casting call for the next season. I think they do it to promote the show and make it look more real time. As far as I know Rachel will begin filming this week.  They usually film The Bachelorette right after The Bachelor ends showing. . Then a break for BIP, then The Bachelor films. I think Nick finished filming in November. 

Oh okay thanks for clearing that up. I do remember that Jojo started filming soon after the Bachelor finale aired but with them revealing Rachel as the Bachelorette before the season was over and her doing the media rounds and telling people to apply, I thought they may have been a change in the filming schedule. So I always thought that the show plotted some characters that were the checklist  version of what the lead may be looking for but if they're casting before they even know who their lead is or confirming the cast shortly after the lead is officially known, then it seems like the casting is more of a mish mash of different personalities that you hope will bring some drama but also work with the lead to make for some realistic 'falling in love' storylines. 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

It's been discussed on this board over this season that Nick might not have been a great choice to be The Bachelor as apparently he is deeply monogamous -- ie, he was never going to do a good job at having or faking romantic feelings for more than one woman at a time.

I didn't pay much attention to Nick on Andi's season and didn't watch Kaitlyn's season. I watched some of BIP when he was on.

So he's been with Andi, Kaitlyn, Liz and.......

I just don't really see why women are so attracted to him. Can anyone fill me in?

[Stinamaia]

18 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Yep, I said the same thing I think in the Bachelorette thread.  Since she likes sports so much I can see her parlaying this into something along those lines.  I can see her doing that rather than promoting on instagram or starting some type of blog. 

Pray God she doesn't do that. Andi seemed like lawyer lite to me.  The pretty girl who goes to law school but doesn't really have an interest. Rachel has been practicing longer and seems more serious. Her mother has a high powered job too.  For an oil company or something.  Rachel has a chance for something, I think (hope)

8 minutes ago, fib said:

I dont think she is going to get a lot of Cross Country skiers to use her agency, based on what we've seen so far.  

I just hope the show treats Rachel well.  I dont want this to be an ashley season where they allow a horrible contestant to manipulate the hell out of the lead.  We've seen that often enough that i understand WW's fears.  

But being the lead is also an amazing opportunity.  And i hope Rachel hires a pr person on her own to help her navigate the tricky waters she will likely face when her season airs.  Because you cant trust the show to do you right.  They have their own agenda.  

Too true.

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, TiaLou said:

Pretty sure it was for the exposure. I think Vanessa's attempts to establish her acting/Hollywood career have been extraordinarily minimized.

B I N G O ! ! !

11 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

I just don't really see why women are so attracted to him. Can anyone fill me in?

Are they?  Other than those on TV being paid to be attracted to him and those in the TV audience who have their fantasies?   My only compliment: he sure can bring those tears on cue.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Vinyasa said:

I didn't pay much attention to Nick on Andi's season and didn't watch Kaitlyn's season. I watched some of BIP when he was on.

So he's been with Andi, Kaitlyn, Liz and.......

I just don't really see why women are so attracted to him. Can anyone fill me in?

When they tell you, please tell me. I have been trying to figure that out.  The head tilting, lisping, crying, curly hair boy wonder did NOTHING for me, but to each their own.  Again, I honestly think women like talking to Nick and possibly are attracted to his personality??? 

[Rubyslippahz]

I like those theorizing above that Rachel might be in this for a career in sports/sports broadcasting.  That makes sense.   She did stress how into sports she was a lot during the season.   And from experience I know being a lawyer, especially the kind of work she does, can suck so she might want to get out of that career.   

 

I swear during ATFR they did not show any kind of retrospective clips of Vanessa and Nick on their "journey" such as when she first got out of the limo, their zero gravity date, etc?   Am I right?  So strange, maybe Chris/producers did kind of detest them as a couple.  Way to sell the romance of it so short, they had no problem showing exhaustive clips of Corinne/Taylor's every exchange during the season on WTA.   And the thing of the proposal being seriously edited as Vanessa obviously has two different shades of lip gloss on in different parts of it-- how sloppy are the people putting the show together?  Seems like they DGAF about viewers who invested hours a week into watching the season --- time to push the next new shiny iteration (Rachel).   

 

Vanessa hardly posts on social media at all-- it is very strange especially compared to others who have been F1.    She just posted a photo of her, Nick, Peta, and Peta's baby but her social media presence is strangely scarce.   

[yorklee2]

12 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

That was my take on Raven's reaction as well. I do think her words and emotions were genuine but I do think that because she is generally a more emotionally reserved person, producers probably tried to manipulate something more dramatic out of her. If you're someone who likes to keep your composure and you don't want to appear emotionally vulnerable then after having to handle rejection in front of people and cameras, it seems reasonable that you won't want to talk to any of those people, let alone get into detail about what you just experienced. Raven probably tried to keep her comments vague so that they would leave her alone in peace.

Put it this way - Raven didn't seem overly emotional about hearing that her father was cancer free. Who would doubt for a second that Raven wasn't in fact overjoyed with that news just because she didn't break down into tears or start shouting 'OMG OMG'? She's just not an overly expressive person but because I genuinely think that about her, I think that even small mannerisms can say a lot about what she's feeling since, unlike Nick, she has a great poker face.

This made me think of a video my daughter showed me yesterday of two men YouTube vlogers who had a running vlog doing recaps of the Bachelor this season. They decided for the finale they would do a reaction video as they were watching. Let me tell you I have never seen a woman any more anxious then these two were. In the rejection scene you could tell they were looking at it through a man's eyes and were fully expecting it to not go well at all. When Raven said the line about she knew this was the love that her dad always prayed for her to have, one put his hands over his face while the other rubbed his hands anxiously across his lap amid a lot of, "oh no"s" and grimaces. Some of their commentary:

"she's handling it like a champ"  "in her mind she's thinking, I cant' let him see me squirm"  "if I were Nick I would think that went about as well as it could have gone"  "I bet he's so relieved"

So it seems like we weren't the only ones who got that impression of her stoicism and reserve.

Edited March 16, 2017 by yorklee2

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, Rubyslippahz said:

So strange, maybe Chris/producers did kind of detest them as a couple.

Maybe Chris is in love with Nick--otherwise, why the continual showcase for him?   

[coconutcookie]

For all the Sturm und Drang about how deeply he fell in love with and suffered the rejection of Andi and Kaitlyn, I was never convinced that Nick really wanted to find someone to spend the rest of his life with.  I had the same feeling about the doofus from Iowa. Nick likes the chase and the competition too much.  You don't have to expend much effort when you have a gaggle of pretty women who think you're a rock star.  Where's the fun in that?

[violetr]

Quote

I just don't really see why women are so attracted to him. Can anyone fill me in?

Ding ding ding! You found one! Me and my bestie both find Nick attractive. I think he's sensitive, sincere and funny. Also I prefer sweet, quirky, offbeat guys to jocks and such. And I find him pretty to look at. Really I think it just comes down to what you're into. 

[Nowhere]

11 minutes ago, violetr said:

Ding ding ding! You found one! Me and my bestie both find Nick attractive. I think he's sensitive, sincere and funny. Also I prefer sweet, quirky, offbeat guys to jocks and such. And I find him pretty to look at. Really I think it just comes down to what you're into. 

Nick is the only lead I've ever found attractive. I would date the hell out of him. 

[dleighg]

So I have a question. Somewhere here I heard that it's "standard" that the #2 gives a little I love you speech before being cut. Vanessa did not give the little speech. So does she know she's not getting cut? What if she's supposed to give the speech and doesn't? Did Raven know she was getting cut (because she gave the speech)? Needless to say, the final question is, why did Nick let Raven give the speech instead of just cutting her off? His face told the whole story (IMHO).

[truthaboutluv]

13 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So I have a question. Somewhere here I heard that it's "standard" that the #2 gives a little I love you speech before being cut. Vanessa did not give the little speech. So does she know she's not getting cut? What if she's supposed to give the speech and doesn't? Did Raven know she was getting cut (because she gave the speech)? Needless to say, the final question is, why did Nick let Raven give the speech instead of just cutting her off? His face told the whole story (IMHO).

Vanessa did give the speech. Most people have figured out that maybe for the whole storyline that Vanessa might say no and Nick end up alone, they edited the final proposal and made it look like Nick spoke first when instead Vanessa did. Apparently Vanessa's lipstick gave it away.

When she first walks in, her lipstick is fully on but when Nick starts talking, it's almost gone. But when she starts talking after him, it's fully there again. Also, Nick starts full on boo-booing with tears coming down when he spoke but when Vanessa supposedly speaks after him, his face is completely dry. 

So the guess is Vanessa spoke first, there was some kissing that wiped her lipstick off and then Nick spoke.

[DEL901]

13 hours ago, TiaLou said:

Pretty sure it was for the exposure. I think Vanessa's attempts to establish her acting/Hollywood career have been extraordinarily minimized.

I looked her up on IMDB.  She did 3 bit parts.  She is a teacher which means summers off.  Lots of things are shot in and around Montreal.  Why not do a little extra work / bit parts for fun and some extra cash?  Doesn't mean she wants to be a full time actor.

[waving feather]

7 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I looked her up on IMDB.  She did 3 bit parts.  She is a teacher which means summers off.  Lots of things are shot in and around Montreal.  Why not do a little extra work / bit parts for fun and some extra cash?  Doesn't mean she wants to be a full time actor.

True, but if she is moving to the States, she is leaving her students behind. I don't know how that is going to work. I thought special ed teachers are a bit different from regular teachers because follow-through is important? If she doesn't get a teaching job after she moved, most likely she wants to find something in the entertainment industry.

I haven't watched AFTR for the past couple of seasons but if I recall correctly, it used to be the lead to talk to F2 and after that the lead continues to be on the couch and they bring out F1 for the reunion. Why is it so weird now that Vanessa talked to Chris alone for such a long period of time before Nick came out? Nick is really not the lead on his own season. First, Corinne, then Rachel, then Vanessa.

[adhoc]

I guess I have a different take on Rachel. First, like others have said, maybe she hopes to parlay her Bachelorette stint into a broadcast or related media career. Second, my feeling is that she'll get enough exposure that--if she truly wants to meet a great guy, and I believe she does, career aspirations notwithstanding--she'll be able to attract the attention of a great guy post-show, if not on the show itself.  All in all, it's a strategy I can get behind.

Also, after seeing Rachel take Nick to her church and discuss that it was important to her, I like to think that she'll mostly take the high road during the show. No sleeping with everyone during overnights, for example.  I'm optimistic.

[RHJunkie]

18 hours ago, TiaLou said:

Pretty sure it was for the exposure. I think Vanessa's attempts to establish her acting/Hollywood career have been extraordinarily minimized.

But: I do think Nick's preference for her was set early on and was (is?) sincere. (And maybe she likes him back, who knows.) 

It's been discussed on this board over this season that Nick might not have been a great choice to be The Bachelor as apparently he is deeply monogamous -- ie, he was never going to do a good job at having or faking romantic feelings for more than one woman at a time. I don't think he had sex with either Rachel or Raven in the fantasy suites; he had been confused and hurt that Andi had sex with him and then didn't choose him. He wasn't going to do that to either Rachel or Raven.

Speaking of the fantasy suites, maybe the contestants are under some sort of death-threatening contract so they can't talk details, but don't you think that at least in SOME seasons (like this one), the Bachelor/ette tells his/her favorite that s/he is the one? I just can't believe that hasn't happened before.

I don't think anything can be minimized or extrapolated on if there isn't anything there to really probe that type of discussion. Their previous work and experience mean nothing...at the end of the day, why did any of these people put themselves on TV? The case can be made for or against any and everyone who appear on these shows. If we're going to be fair, we can either assume they all want exposure and and let their actions prove otherwise or we can assume they all have good intentions and let their actions prove otherwise. Personally, I think almost all of the people that go on this show want a combination of love, exposure and opportunity and I think that each person prioritizes it to suit their interests best. For example - Kaitlyn went on the show to build her brand. She admitted that she wasn't invested in the process of needing to find the love of her life but she realized that being on the show presented opportunities and exposure for her and she figured that if she happened to find love, that would be a bonus. When you have a contestant that is purely for the fame - those are the ones that should be called out for their fame hungry ways. If you're going on a national TV show about courting a woman all the while you have a girlfriend back home - yeah, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure production wouldn't want the lead admitting to anyone that they're the one during an overnight stay in the fantasy suites but I can't imagine that it's never happened before and I imagine in the instances that it has happened, the contestant would have to pretend that it didn't. In Kaitlyn's season, Ben did allude to feeling like Kaitlyn told Shawn something in private that gave him a lot of reassurance about their relationship. I felt that Ben was or less telling Kaitlyn that he thinks she's already made her decision and her intended F1 already knows it. Then there was Desiree's season...I'm convinced that Desiree told Brooks that she was going to pick him F1 during their fantasy suite date because the next day he went to her and told her was had to walk away. Obviously just my speculation but I think knowing for certain that he would be the one she expected to get down on one knee and propose to her made him realize that he wasn't ready for that but he had let things go way too far and he had no choice but to walk away. There was no time left to sabotage his chances and have her send him home. And she did admit that he would have been the one she chose. No one ever confirms if they've ever revealed that information in the fantasy suite but if they really truly are alone all night with no cameras, I can't see why some wouldn't have broken the 'rule'.

[RHJunkie]

4 hours ago, waving feather said:

True, but if she is moving to the States, she is leaving her students behind. I don't know how that is going to work. I thought special ed teachers are a bit different from regular teachers because follow-through is important? If she doesn't get a teaching job after she moved, most likely she wants to find something in the entertainment industry.

I haven't watched AFTR for the past couple of seasons but if I recall correctly, it used to be the lead to talk to F2 and after that the lead continues to be on the couch and they bring out F1 for the reunion. Why is it so weird now that Vanessa talked to Chris alone for such a long period of time before Nick came out? Nick is really not the lead on his own season. First, Corinne, then Rachel, then Vanessa.

I'm pretty sure it works just the same was as normal teachers. It's not expected to be a lifetime commitment to your students. She may look for a career change, however, I think the reason she launched her charity is largely in part because she won't be able to be in a classroom physically due to work visa issues. The charity (and maybe additional volunteer opportunities) will give her the option to 'work' in some capacity and to keep in line with something that she's passionate about. She would still require a working visa in the US in order to work in the entertainment industry there which means that she would have to audition, land roles and have her employer sponsor her work visa which would also be difficult in the land of LA. She might have better success if she accepted short term roles and opportunities in Canada where she could fly out for a short time and do a stint and then fly back to LA. Honestly, Vanessa is VERY limited with work opportunities especially with her waiting the proper channels that would allow her to work in the US. her best bet is to work on her charity and get her income via advertising products on her social media account. Her followers are climbing and she can rake in quite a bit per post.

This season they really milked Nick to be this victim of his past despite the position of strength he was in being the lead on the show.

[truthaboutluv]

13 hours ago, Rubyslippahz said:

Vanessa hardly posts on social media at all-- it is very strange especially compared to others who have been F1.

And that's one of the biggest things that has given me pause on the whole "she clearly only wants to be an actress" and makes me think maybe her acting past hasn't been minimized. The fact is we now exist in a very social media driven world. People have gotten famous because of social media. Hell that's what being on the franchise has now become - last long enough to get enough followers to shill products on Instagram. Oh and by the way, for all his famewhoring, Nick is actually one of the few franchise people who doesn't shill on social media and let's face it, he has more than enough followers and notoriety in the franchise to do it if he wanted and do it quite well. 

But back to Vanessa, the moment her identity was spoiled, some found her IMDB page and the accusations began. But I just found it interesting that someone so desperate for fame and to become some actress would be so quiet on social media. She barely uses Twitter. In fact, until the season started and she made a few posts, she hadn't posted on it since 2011 - so clearly not a fan. She's more active on Instagram but that's been more a handful of posts with family and friends. Nick is more active on social media than Vanessa. 

Like I've said, I certainly side eye everyone who does this show and yeah I don't think anyone is truly doing it to "find love" or that's their sole reason, but I don't agree that Vanessa's actress past has been minimized like there's so much more there and so much evidence of this grand plan of hers to become a huge star. Maybe there is but I haven't really gotten that impression. 

Quote

Then there was Desiree's season...I'm convinced that Desiree told Brooks that she was going to pick him F1 during their fantasy suite date because the next day he went to her and told her was had to walk away. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Desiree and Brooks ever went to the Fantasy Suite. He ended things at the start of what was their FSD - meaning the day portion of the date. Because he expressed his doubts with his family on his HTD, after Desiree left. So when she showed up for their FSD, he told her how he felt and left. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[catrice2]

I thought they said Vanessa worked with adults? If she works with special needs adults in some type of community center, etc. then it is not like a regular school year, nor is she probably the only person that works with them.   She also has had a few months to prepare them for the change, and possibly even train a replacement.  I would be interested in how easily she gets a work Visa, etc.  

[Canada]

I used to find Nick attractive.  And then I saw this season of The Bachelor and all the crying just put me off.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Desiree and Brooks ever went to the Fantasy Suite. He ended things at the start of what was their FSD - meaning the day portion of the date. Because he expressed his doubts with his family on his HTD, after Desiree left. So when she showed up for their FSD, he told her how he felt and left. 

You could be right...So cross that off my already short list of examples, haha.

Edited March 16, 2017 by RHJunkie

[TheFinalRose]

Yes, Brooks left Desiree crying on the park bench at the beginning of their day .... and he was out of there before noon, it looked like. I still have that episode saved on tivo for some reason ...

[violet and green]

25 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Yes, Brooks left Desiree crying on the park bench at the beginning of their day .... and he was out of there before noon, it looked like. I still have that episode saved on tivo for some reason ...

That was the best episode ever! I watched it that many times. Had it saved, but the damn dvr blew up.

Edited March 16, 2017 by violet and green
typo

[bluestocking]

Ashley Hebert let it slip, in an interview if I recall correctly,  that she told JP in the fantasy suite, after the cameras had left, that he was the one.   So it has been done at least once. 

[catrice2]

I actually think that is what happened this season, but sooner than the final dates. I think Nick told Vanessa early on she would be the last one standing and tried to help her understand that he still had a show to do. I think after watching him get close to Raven and his antics with Corinne she was doubting what he told her.  Maybe she thought that since he had declared his intent then it would automatically mean she would start getting all the one on ones, etc., and when that didn't happen she wondered if he was telling the truth....hence the unraveling.   I never thought Vanessa was humorless, etc. I just didn't get much of anything from her except that she was pretty.   I think, however, that to really give this show a chance and understand why people say what they do that you have to invest in watching it start to finish every week, or at least fast forwarding to the good parts.  I missed way too many episodes to fully form an opinion about anything or anybody except of course Corinne. The fact that he kept her around, for WHATEVER reason, also  solidified my thoughts about the lead.  My opinion about Nick was there before the show....just in the fact that he'd been on so many times before. 

Also, was Vanessa the one whose parents had divorced?  If she comes from a family of divorce she probably is very concerned about it not working out for her. 

Hopefully after another week or so  people will move on and those that care about the relationship can follow them on instagram or whatever.  How does it work?  Will companies contact her to start selling things for them? 

[nlkm9]

On 3/15/2017 at 5:10 PM, catrice2 said:

See, this is what I don't understand. Why not film the entire season except for the final rose? When they wrap it will be narrowed down to 2 and then the lead spends the next (however long between filming and airing) actually dating the final two, and then they have a special where he finally chooses?    I actually have no issue with the above. I would rather date him and see if I am really interested than make some rash decision.  I don't know, this whole pressure to have a proposal and "happily ever after" is unnecessary.  People would still watch if there was no proposal. 

at the time I felt it was very demeaning that he essentially had permission from both women (Krisly and sarah I think) to date and sleep with both of them....I felt like when he said "I cant choose between you" that one or both should have said "see ya later". but thats just me. You do have a point about the pressure to make a choice, but something about "letting him choose"seems very demeaning to the 2 left, like they have no say in the matter.

[huahaha]

19 hours ago, Canada said:

I used to find Nick attractive.  And then I saw this season of The Bachelor and all the crying just put me off.

For me, it wasn't the crying. In was the snuffly, snot-rocket crying. Literally the grossest cry I've ever seen featured on screen so many times.

[ByTor]

There's plenty to criticize about Nick, but where are people hearing a lisp?  If Nick had a lisp, he'd pronounce his chosen one's name as "Vanetha", and I never heard him do that.  Is there some new "urban dictionary" definition of "lisp" that I'm not aware of?

Edited March 17, 2017 by ByTor

[RHJunkie]

25 minutes ago, ByTor said:

There's plenty to criticize about Nick, but where are people hearing a lisp?  If Nick had a lisp, he'd pronounce his chosen one's name as "Vanetha", and I never heard him do that.  Is there some new "urban dictionary" definition of "lisp" that I'm not aware of?

I don't hear a lisp either but boy does he mumble a lot...maybe that's the reason people hear a lisp OR maybe that's the reason we don't (because we can't decipher it)? He can speak clearly and coherently at times but I think he gets more mumble-y when he's trying to have a serious conversation about something. I've never perceived his speech to be an actual impediment of any sort, I've always perceived his speech to be something related to his natural awkwardness and maybe insecurity when speaking about certain things.

[catrice2]

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

at the time I felt it was very demeaning that he essentially had permission from both women (Krisly and sarah I think) to date and sleep with both of them....I felt like when he said "I cant choose between you" that one or both should have said "see ya later". but thats just me. You do have a point about the pressure to make a choice, but something about "letting him choose"seems very demeaning to the 2 left, like they have no say in the matter.

I guess I'm confused by this because that's the premise of the show letting the man choose between  two but between 20-30  others and have possible intimate contact with them , especially the final three.  why would they get upset about it at that time? You have already humiliated yourself to me why get some type of moral code now?  I suppose if it were not for the whole Fantasy Suites part of this show, they could have said to him we will date  you but there is not going to be sex during the dating time.  That would have made him drop both of them.

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't hear a lisp either but boy does he mumble a lot

Sometimes we can see a lisp on television rather than hear it.  Nick may have had some sort of impediment at a young age and saw a speech pathologist/therapist to correct or mask it.  There are several on-screen/on-air personalities whose interest in speech and drama started with their visits to speech therapy.

[ByTor]

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I've always perceived his speech to be something related to his natural awkwardness and maybe insecurity when speaking about certain things.

I had to have captioning on when Nick's mother was talking, she seemed to do that mumbly/slurring words together thing.  I'm guessing Nick got that habit from her.

[Wandering Snark]

21 hours ago, ByTor said:

I had to have captioning on when Nick's mother was talking, she seemed to do that mumbly/slurring words together thing.  I'm guessing Nick got that habit from her.

Combo that with his Dad's emotional crytalking and you can see that this particular apple didn't fall far from the tree!

Edited March 18, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I guess I'm confused by this because that's the premise of the show letting the man choose between  two but between 20-30  others and have possible intimate contact with them , especially the final three.  why would they get upset about it at that time? You have already humiliated yourself to me why get some type of moral code now?  I suppose if it were not for the whole Fantasy Suites part of this show, they could have said to him we will date  you but there is not going to be sex during the dating time.  That would have made him drop both of them.

true, but he had the whole season to humiliate and torment the women, I just remember being surprised that they both eagerly agreed to continue dating him. I get what youre saying, but it really bothered me at the time. Also, back then it was not assumed that the bachelor was intimate with all the "finalists". But you do make a good point.

[Nedsdag]

On 3/16/2017 at 4:43 PM, violet and green said:

That was the best episode ever! I watched it that many times. Had it saved, but the damn dvr blew up.

It's on YouTube if you want to watch it.

[Meowwww]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:41 AM, ByTor said:

There's plenty to criticize about Nick, but where are people hearing a lisp?  If Nick had a lisp, he'd pronounce his chosen one's name as "Vanetha", and I never heard him do that.  Is there some new "urban dictionary" definition of "lisp" that I'm not aware of?

I don't hear a lisp either.  But the mouth-full-of -marbles mumbling drive me nuts. Several times I had to rewind a bunch to figure out what he was saying.  

[waving feather]

What I hear is Nick slurring his words like he is drunk.