S01.E18: Moonshadow

[Dreamboat Annie]

As soon as they showed Randall looking at the family photos, it was predictable to me.  He was going to go to Beth to tell her he wanted another baby.  That he wanted to adopt one was irrelevant imo.  When we were shown very early on that Beth's pregnancy scare really was a "scare" for them because they dreamed of their retirement scenario, something of which I got the impression was not that far off, I was like "yeah, right"...because, um, at 36 we all have plans to retire in the near future ;)

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, betha said:

Pretty sure that is exactly what she's trying to do! I think the tour was going to be fulfilling for her. 

I think so too, but if she's been miserable for that long and waits til then to pursue it?  At her age, it isn't likely to turn into a big career, so she has a two week tour and will go back to her normal life?  I just think that solves nothing.

[Trooper York]

What career? Singing covers in dive bars because the piano player wants to bang her?

No wonder her kids hate her. 

[memememe76]

I look forward to seeing the kids' stories play out next season. I think Beth will return to work and Randall will stay at home. Even though the adoption will be open, Randall will have a better idea of how Rebecca felt.

Loved the episode. Love the series. I will let the writers do what they want. I am not exactly needing to know everything right now.

[betweenthebanter]

I enjoyed that this finale was mostly understated. I kind of expected something huge to happen, like Jack's friend getting killed when their plan went wrong, but I appreciate that nothing big like that actually happened.

29 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

 I did think the fight was very well done. I saw both sides of the argument and am on both sides. Seriously, I'm giving a little love toward Rebecca because I think she's entirely warranted to feel like she's giving up a lot of her dreams for Jack, just like Jack feels like he's the sole provider that helps them all out. Jack may be right, but Rebecca is not wrong. He did put down her feelings by telling her that her singing is not a career, something she's heard her entire life, it seems.

  Completely agree, I was on both of their sides and also critical of them both during the fight. As others have said, their fight was very realistic and raw, which made it so great.

I also knew that Jack and Rebecca's blind dates wouldn't be each other.

Randall wanting to adopt is a storyline I though they might do one day, but I'm surprised that it is already going to happen next season. I wonder if this is going to cause conflict between Randall and Beth. We don't know how their working situation is going to be in the future and she wanted to go back to work full time.

Right now the Kate becoming a singer plotline is not something that I'm really interested in. I guess it can be an interesting storyline in regards to her and Rebecca's relationship. I'm sad that Kate' previous job storyline wasn't something that the writers wanted to explore more.

[DayGlorious]

5 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

What career? Singing covers in dive bars because the piano player wants to bang her?

No wonder her kids hate her. 

I love you.

[MelGoLightly]

1 hour ago, betha said:

the Buffy poster threw me off. One thing about being (close to) the same age as the kids, the little anachronisms throw me off. Buffy didn't start until 1997. The kids were born in 1980 but I thought they were supposed to be 15 when Jack died ? 

(Maybe they never actually said that, just hinted?)

I've concluded they are in spring 1996, making the kids 16 going on 17. This is based on a number of factors, but specifically the registration sticker on Jack's wagon expires in 96 at the beginning of this episode. I'll be over in the minutiae thread if you need me...

Edited March 15, 2017 by MelGoLightly

[mojoween]

That was disappointing on a cellular level.

[betha]

14 minutes ago, againstthewind said:

I agree entirely, but wasn't that kind of the prevailing attitude at the time? Rebecca and Jack are/were 10 and 15 years older than my parents, respectively so I genuinely don't know. 

That's a good question. I would say the attitudes were mixed, much as they are now. There were plenty of female breadwinners and high earners in the 1990s. But two-parent families were more likely than now to be able to be supported by one main income. My mom worked and most friends' moms worked, but it was for lower pay and seen as supplemental. There was more pressure on the man to be a sole provider --whereas now there is more pressure on/need for both parents to earn. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by betha

[Ms Blue Jay]

The show was deliberately manipulative by having Kate claim last episode that she caused Jack's death and then not showing how he died this episode.

It's all fine and good that they didn't want to kill Jack or get rid of Milo's major part in the show.  I don't need them to ever show how Jack dies.  But why the manipulation.  It was truly unnecessary.  Some of you are lucky you're not on Twitter.  The actors kept posting: Omg, you're all just gonna be destroyed by this episode!  Yeah.  Not so much.  Did you guys do a weird episode on purpose so we would miss the show less.  LOL.  Not even having a plot with the Big Three..... Thanks

Mandy looked really beautiful through the whole ep.  Milo had a very strong accent in that last scene, LOL.  I don't know where he's from, LA?  It was kind of distracting.  I love him.

I would also like to know who the actor was who played Jack's friend.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Trooper York]

What was lame was that Rebecca wouldn't admit that Jack was right all along about the piano man's motives. 

If she was so set on singing why didn't she pursue that career after Jack conveniently croaked on her?

Instead of trading down to mendacious Miguel.

[sandyskyblue]

My bar of expectation was raised pretty high for this episode as I felt the last 2 episodes, especially Memphis, were so well done....I was disappointed tonite...so we learned that Jack and Rebecca had a pretty major falling out, how they met, Randall wants to adopt a baby, and something or other about Kevin and Kate....I remember watching the very last episode of the Sopranos, watching the clock and thinking 'something mind blowing is going to happen any minute now'....it never did....that is how I felt about this episode....I will definitely watch next season, but the bar has dropped for me, I'm cautiously hopeful that they can raise it again...

[Crs97]

4 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

If she was so set on singing why didn't she pursue that career after Jack conveniently croaked on her?

Because Jack so thoughtfully told her she was ridiculous to try and make a career out of it.

[Trooper York]

Is it too late to kill off Rebecca instead of Jack?

Just asking.

[AmandaPanda]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Mandy looked really beautiful through the whole ep.  Milo had a very strong accent in that last scene, LOL.  I don't know where he's from, LA?  It was kind of distracting.  I love him.

Pretty much. He's from Anaheim. 

I wish they had capped the season off with Memphis. The last two episodes have been a let down after the emotional gut punch of William's death. 

[Amethyst]

7 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

Jack has good qualities but there are chauvinist tendencies with him sometimes.  Jack does not take Rebecca's contribution to the family as a stay at home mom seriously.  He fixates on his being the provider and what sacrifices he has made while belittling what Rebecca gave up to raise their children.  

He was pretty blithe about Rebecca being a SAHM and her dreams outside the home, but the problem is that they didn't do enough build-up for these problems with Jack.  They've spent most of the season showing him as a saintly father and husband, and in the last 3 episodes, try to force this "He's a budding alcoholic with jealousy issues!" stuff and it's not convincing.  As it is, the drinking problem was barely a blip on the radar.  Rebecca said he quit cold turkey, no meetings, no withdrawal, conveniently open and shut.  As for the jealousy, that's a pretty new development, too.  Not saying that Jack is immune to jealousy, but it would have been nice for them to plant some seeds about these flaws throughout the season instead of cramming them in at the end.

And the writers have never shied away when it comes to Rebecca's flaws.  Even now, she's the one asking Jack to move out of the house.  The writers did a poor job balancing out their personalities in the latter half of the season.

[Kira53]

22 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I honestly thought it was Miguel until Jack called him "D."

Adoption agencies are sure going to be lined up for a guy who no longer has a job and recently suffered a mental breakdown!

They won't be trying to adopt a white newborn baby so they won't have a problem.  Poor people adopt in NY and even get money to take care of the child until they are age 18.  There are more minority children than placements and it gets the children stable situations rather than multiple foster home or institutional care.  They get families of their own instead of becoming 18 and making a life for themselves all alone.  Randall's family would get a great reception.

[elle]

Found Darryl!  Jeremy Luke

[Ryan Chamberlain]

What I don't get. Is why they made the focal point of the show "how Jack died"

 

Why couldn't have just told us flat out. Seriously. This is the kind of stuff that ruins shows.

[Cardie]

41 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe that's Jack's light, because I think when he walks out of the house, that will probably be the last time Rebecca sees him.  

I had that feeling also and thought the show would confirm it without telling us what happened. I felt the episode was one big tease as far as Jack's fate was concerned. I was half hoping that he did steal the money and Rebecca met him after he'd done a short jail term, anything to tarnish the halo. Even with older Jack driving drunk and assaulting Ben, he still ends up the great, optimistic romantic while Rebecca seems in part an ungrateful shrew.

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, deaja said:

I think so too, but if she's been miserable for that long and waits til then to pursue it?  At her age, it isn't likely to turn into a big career, so she has a two week tour and will go back to her normal life?  I just think that solves nothing.

I don't think she was looking to make it into a big career, but the point is that she changed her perspective on everything, set aside all her hopes and dreams for the future for Jack. I'm interested to see the seven years we've missed from the time they met to the time they got married. I think, during this episode, Rebecca was feeling like her stay-at-home role was coming to an end. She even mentioned that she thought that the kids didn't need her anymore, so her primary role was done in a way. Not to say that Rebecca was done with parenting in general, but her job was those kids and now they didn't need her in the way that would satisfy her as a career that she was put in. I think she was looking to go back to what she loved doing in the first place, which was singing on stage. She's not wrong for wanting to achieve even partial success that she had wanted at 21. 

I agree that even this two week tour wasn't going to fix the problem that she was having in terms of her future with the kids all grown up, but I think she desperately wanted to see if it would. She got married because Jack wanted to, right? She hadn't wanted to get married and settle down until Jack convinced her to. Then, Jack begged her to have kids and then she did, all because he did. She did end up loving them, but having kids at the age of 30 wasn't in her future plans at that moment. Then, she set aside her dream of singing for who knows how long until she joined Ben's band much later, while juggling her primary role of taking care of her three kids. She did sacrifice a lot for twenty years, I truly believe that. And I do think it was just slowly building until this episode, which can happen. 

7 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

What was lame was that Rebecca wouldn't admit that Jack was right all along about the piano man's motives. 

Well, she didn't admit it to him, but she did admit it to herself after Ben moved in on her. I give her a total pass for this because both of them were very upset that night and in the morning. She wasn't in the frame of mind to apologize, and that's fine. Sometimes, it does take more than a few hours to admit fault out loud. 

I think the problem is that Jack was the one to make this huge speech about love and their love story, so it makes Rebecca automatically look like the bad guy for kicking him out and not apologizing and not making the first step. It's why I wanted Rebecca to make some big speech at the end. The issue is definitely that they keep trying to make Jack look like the better person above Rebecca. They only started shoving his insecurities and jealousy issues in the last three episodes. While we've seen Rebecca, flaws and all, we're only getting some glimpses of Jack's, so it's incredibly uneven and a bit unfair that Rebecca is shown to be the "worst" of the two. It's why I can't completely hate Rebecca; I feel sorry for the writing of her character. Realistic, but unfair when we instinctively compare her to Jack. We really should have seen more of Jack's jealousy issues throughout the season, instead of them cramming it into the last few episodes so their separation would feel realistic. 

[nutty1]

I enjoyed it. I was almost relieved Jack didn't die.  I knew showing him driving drunk was just a ruse. I don't want to see him die at all, but I am so curious how Kate was involved.

Didn't Rebecca quit after the guy kissed her? And she called Jack, saying she missed him? I get resentment over his drinking, but he didn't end her gig this time. I was definitely team Jack tonight, especially after his speech about why he loved her.

I thought the blind date guy may be Miguel. I figured it wasn't Jack.

Love Randall. And I was sad to see Kevin go off and perhaps lose the love of his life....again. What about his play?  Doesn't he have to continue starring in that. Is there even time to go to LA?

The Fall season seems far away.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Maybe the writers of the show have mother issues?  (As do I, so this is not meant to be flippant.)  And that's why the scales seem to weigh so heavily in favour to Jack over Rebecca?

If anyone watched LOST, every single character on the show had a horrible father.  Hence, our constant jokes about the writers all having major Daddy issues..... Not that Rebecca is horrible, I just totally get some people's annoyances that halos seem to hover above Jack and William and Rebecca gets painted so differently.  Although, I agree with the poster above who found Jack's antics unbelievable this episode.  Hard to paint him as a saint and then turn around and paint him as somebody who would be so mocking towards Rebecca's aspirations.  That was low, for me.  I guess the drinking is a bit more believable since there has been foreshadowing and drinking and driving is a very realistic epidemic.

I think, and hope, that many reasonable people know that a lot of stay at home parents don't necessarily feel 100% fulfilled.  It's an issue I've been hearing about since I was a teenager.  2 mother characters on the show "Big Little Lies" expressed it this past week, and the posters were so sympathetic.  Things are so different here.  

Edited March 15, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[WhosThatGirl]

Damn, Rebecca gets a lot of hate here. Look, when Rebecca started with the band she didn't know Ben was only doing it to get with her again. Also.. she probably chose this time, at 40, because her kids are teens and very rarely need her lately. Then boys always have activities going on and I'm sure Kate does too.

Jack was mean tonight to her and yet.. still comes out looking perfect of course. I love Jack as well but I feel like Rebecca gets a whole bunch of hate.

[Ryan Chamberlain]

In a way. I kind of understand Becky's situation. She's obviously going through a mid life crisis. My mom did the same when she was that age.

But, on the other hand. Why do they have to make her so abrasive?

And, it's almost "bipolar" in a way. I mean, the way I feel about her and the way she's portrayed. Like, last week's episode when she apologized to Randall and told him she was just afraid of losing him. I was touched. Really touched. But, the way she treated Jack in tonight's episode and how she said like felt like she had no life because of him and the kids. I wanted to reach through the screen and slap her.

[Trooper York]

Jack is a better person than Rebecca.

Ungrateful shrew should be on her business card. 

No wonder he kids hate her.

Look at it this way. Every one of them basically can't stand her. Kevin hates how she totally didn't care about him because he put Randal  on a pedestal. Kate obviously doesn't care for her and their interactions are icy. And now Randall hates her because she kept him from his father for all of those years.

Your basic nasty ungrateful shrew.

Life has a way of working it out though. Jack had the sweet release of death. Rebecca gets to spend the rest of her life with Miguel. Karma.

If this was a horror show she would be the monster. Just sayn'

[OptimisticCynic]

Did Jack, during their argument, say she was 40? That's a big continuity error. She had the kids when she was 30, making her 45/46. I hate when shows can't get simple details right. I get neither of them look their ages (46 and 52), but they're the ages  they are supposed to be. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by OptimisticCynic

[luna1122]

20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The show was deliberately manipulative by having Kate claim last episode that she caused Jack's death and not showing how he died this episode.

It's all fine and good that they didn't want to kill Jack or get rid of Milo's major part in the show.  I don't want them to ever show how Jack dies.  I don't need it.  But why the manipulation.  

 

Because manipulation is what the show is all about. I think the show runners really oversold and overhyped this episode and had everyone all anticipating the big death. People laid in supplies of Kleenex and eagerly  prepared to cry their eyes out. It's kind of funny that I'm seeing comments all over Facebook bemoaning the lack of drama and twists and tears for this one. People are actually angry the episode didn't make them cry til they had to change their tear soaked jammies. I think the producers really need to dial back in the promises that every episode will be the most gut punching one yet. It makes casual fans like me roll their eyes (and pretty much guarantee I'm never gonna cry over it), and it possibly alienates the fan base that really loves the weeping and emotional  heart wrenching  

I think tonight's episode was fine, and nicely acted, even if it was all a big 'what killed jack?' misdirect. The fight was real and pretty ugly. Most of us have probably had some version of that fight in some relationship or other. I see both sides; they're both right and they're both wrong. 

The meet cute was way too cute, and the obligatory monologue was---there. Ditching a blind date is pretty rude--I have ditched one, long ago, when the arty shaggy tatt'd cute guy turned out instead to be a homophobic d-bag, but Rebecca just had to follow that dream!! Of course, it was fate. She had to be in that bar at that specific moment to save jack from a life of crime with her songbird voice. Whatevs. 

I don't care about Randall adopting a baby, like, at all, but he has to have his own big three, I guess. I predict it will be a little white boy, for the symmetry. 

'Into the mystic' is so overplayed in movies and TV but it still gets me every damn time. 

[Bama]

I found it interesting that Rebecca downplayed Jack's "alcoholism".  When Jack said he would go to meetings and get help she brushed it off like he was using it as an excuse - "Stop.  You drank too much seven years ago and stopped with no help but now you're using it as a weapon against me wanting a life."

And I uttered "OOF" when Rebecca told him to "Let you father out".  That cuts to the core of everything Jack has tried to not be his entire adult life.

I really like both Rebecca and Jack, so their fight made me sad.

But, I'm a woman - it's hard to not automatically take Jack's side because......I mean, look at him.

I guess I'm in the minority but I'm glad we didn't see Jack die and that it wasn't the so obviously telegraphed "dies while driving drunk".  I like when my shows zig when I expect them to zag.

Is it Fall yet?  Going to be a long hiatus.

[AuntiePam]

25 minutes ago, mojoween said:

That was disappointing on a cellular level.

Seriously.  So Jack's answer to his financial problem isn't to get a full-time job, or go to school.  Nope, it's to put all his savings into a poker game.  And when that doesn't work, well, "I guess I'll just rob a bar. But it's okay, since they robbed me."  Tell it to the judge, idjit. 

[sadiegirl1999]

24 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Some of you are lucky you're not on Twitter.  The actors kept posting: Omg, you're all just gonna be destroyed by this episode!

Yeah, WTH was up with that? I'd rather they'd kept silent.

I was slightly disappointed in this ep yet grateful, as the last 2 have gutted me. It was almost nice to have a "cry break".

I do feel that they've raised the bar so high, that I feel Jack's death is actually going to be anti-climatic.

[Ryan Chamberlain]

All I can say is. At least there was no snow globe and autistic child at the end.

*St. Elsewhere ref if you all don't know.

[Crs97]

How dare Rebecca not be happy with what a man tells her she can have and be.  It's almost like she wanted to think for herself.

I am happy she is with Miguel because he is the only person who has consistently loved her unconditionally.  

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

How dare Rebecca not be happy with what a man tells her she can have and be.  It's almost like she wanted to think for herself.

I am happy she is with Miguel because he is the only person who has consistently loved her unconditionally.  

Aside from the Miguel thing because that still feels off. And I do adore Jack, I just feel like Rebecca gets so much hate for everything she does. Maybe it's a sexiest thing as it's bugging me so much for some reason.

[ByaNose]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Chamberlain said:

All I can say is. At least there was no snow globe and autistic child at the end.

*St. Elsewhere ref if you all don't know.

OMG! Tommy and the globe. That is so true. LOL!! That said, it was the series finale. This is Us is jerking us around in the first season. LOL!!!!

[Trooper York]

Jack has shown us that he has tried all his life to be a better man than his father.  That he was a loving husband and a devoted father to all of his children no matter what.

To which Rebecca said "Yeah yeah your father tell us all about it."

She is thinking herself right out of a marriage to a devoted loving husband. Who she throws out of his house.  Because she want to be a singer in a band in dirty dive bars with a piano guy groping her first chance he got. Good luck with that one toots.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Team Jack.  Sorry that your life isn't perfect, Rebecca. If you have no life or no fulfillment, take a pottery class. Join a book club. Do something to develop your life instead of feeling like you'll only ever be fulfilled by doing a career that so few are able to really make a living off of. 

A lot of people dabble in art without becoming wealthy off of it.  Why does that have to be the point?  As long as the children are looked after, what is the harm in Rebecca pursuing something to make her happy or something that is just for herself?  Can't the reason for Rebecca doing something simply be because, she wants to?  Two weeks or whatever is not that long of a time to ask your partner to be supportive of something you want to do.

My brother has a full time job, is in two bands, and a long term relationship.  I don't get the big deal.  

[Court]

I think both Rebecca and Jack were right and wrong. They both said some mean things. And neither were really listening to the other.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, Literata said:

The argument was uncomfortably realistic to watch. I cringed when Jack made fun of Rebecca's desire to sing. I know he was hurt, but that was pretty low.

The rest of the episode? Meh. 

That fight was written and acted beautifully and brutually.

Jack's arms looked fucking amazing when he was fixing that car.

Aside from that, this episode sucked.  

[pennben]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think the problem is that Jack was the one to make this huge speech about love and their love story, so it makes Rebecca automatically look like the bad guy for kicking him out and not apologizing and not making the first step. It's why I wanted Rebecca to make some big speech at the end. The issue is definitely that they keep trying to make Jack look like the better person above Rebecca. They only started shoving his insecurities and jealousy issues in the last three episodes. While we've seen Rebecca, flaws and all, we're only getting some glimpses of Jack's, so it's incredibly uneven and a bit unfair that Rebecca is shown to be the "worst" of the two. It's why I can't completely hate Rebecca; I feel sorry for the writing of her character. Realistic, but unfair when we instinctively compare her to Jack. We really should have seen more of Jack's jealousy issues throughout the season, instead of them cramming it into the last few episodes so their separation would feel realistic. 

Bingo!!!  I wanted to scream when Jack got the big speech again.  Of course folks are going to be "team jack" when he gets all the big speeches, all her flaws are exposed episode after episode and his only jammed into a few.  So few in fact that folks are like "nope, I'm not buying it, Jack is still all that, you can't make me believe he has flaws".  Gaaaaahhhhhh!!!

Top it off with having her passion being as 'frivolous' as being a singer, and well, what fool 40 year old could think she could be successful (I don't think she's ever thought they'd be doing a world tour soon), and then make sure that the band member did hit on her, and you've diagnosed why my blood pressure seems to weekly go through the roof on this show.

Why do they feel they need to stack the deck?  Hell, 8 out of 10 times folks are going to fall for a male character over the female character in a relationship, there was no need to make the show so that folks can take potshots at the female character.  It is infuriating to me.

Edited March 15, 2017 by pennben

[Trooper York]

Why wasn't Rebecca working outside of the home for years by now. I mean the kids were all the same age and she could certainly have a job to bring money into the house. The was never any mention of that.  It was the 1990's not the 1890's. Everybody has a two family income  especially with the prospect of three  college tuitions.

She just seem consistently unpleasant and sort of lazy. Maybe it is the writer's mommy issues. Maybe mommy ran off to be a singer instead of getting a job in medical billing to pay for their college tuition. Who knows?

If she was so good and so determined why isn't she singing now?

Because it is all a big bag of baloney?

[hiccup]

It's been said in multiple interviews that they wouldn't reveal this season how Jack died, so I wasn't expecting to see anything about that.  However, in an interview this week it was said that this episode was going to be gut-wrenching and something we've never seen on tv, so in that respect, the episode was uneventful.  I'm ok with that.  I do hope though that the how of his death is revealed in season 2 and not 3, because if it's dragged out any longer than sometime in season 2, they risk the very real possibility that people will no longer care.  They can still have so much story to tell with Jack and Rebecca, and the kids, up to that point and how they got to where they were when he died.  

Jack is, by far, my favorite, but I understood Rebecca's feelings tonight.  I think they both had good and bad points in their argument, and it was realistic in that a lot of times things aren't said when they should be and instead are blurted out in a fight.  Loved Jack's speech at the end though.  

Lastly, and not specific to this episode, but I'm getting very bored with adult Kate and I hope her storyline becomes more interesting in the future.  I am glad though that they finally addressed her job situation tonight.  

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

Jack has shown us that he has tried all his life to be a better man than his father.  That he was a loving husband and a devoted father to all of his children no matter what.

To which Rebecca said "Yeah yeah your father tell us all about it."

She is thinking herself right out of a marriage to a devoted loving husband. Who she throws out of his house.  Because she want to be a singer in a band in dirty dive bars with a piano guy groping her first chance he got. Good luck with that one toots.

Much like Rebecca has been trying to be a better woman than her mother? Just because her mother wasn't an alcoholic drunk, it doesn't mean that Jack's parental issues erase Rebecca's.

I totally get what you're saying, and Rebecca was wrong in bringing up Jack's father. Unfortunately, I've seen this happen in fights all of the time. Even with fights with my sister, she loves to poke my insecurities and make me hurt. I have heard a lot of cruel things coming from my sister's mouth when we get into our fights, because things get very tense and emotional. Fights like this can get nasty and it brings out the worst in people. Jack was 100% wrong in this fight too. He was so mean to Rebecca and not so loving. He dismissed her singing, he didn't care about her feelings, and he had no problem bringing up the fact that he was the sole provider, as if Rebecca has contributed nothing. She cared for their children for sixteen years. She made the choice in sacrificing her dreams for him and she did so for many, many years. And the moment she has a chance to live out her dream for just a couple of weeks, he throws it in her face.

So yeah, I find it completely unfair that Rebecca's this monster for wanting to become a singer. This is the hatred and dismissive attitude that has been shown to be part of her life since before she met Jack. She has been nothing but a loving wife and mother. She has been devoted to taking care of Kate, Kevin, and Randall for sixteen years. Maybe she wasn't the best parent in the world, but neither was Jack. Rebecca even mentioned that Jack didn't always come home until late into the evening. Does he get points for attending the kids' events? Sure. But it doesn't mean that he was perfect in any way, and this episode, I think, was trying to open that idea up. It's just a damn shame that the show didn't show these flaws throughout the season. 

[Kira53]

29 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Seriously.  So Jack's answer to his financial problem isn't to get a full-time job, or go to school.  Nope, it's to put all his savings into a poker game.  And when that doesn't work, well, "I guess I'll just rob a bar. But it's okay, since they robbed me."  Tell it to the judge, idjit. 

 I think there was a great difficulty in the economy and the job market when the Vietnam vets returned home. Was pretty clear in the episode that Jack was interested in working as he told the lady whose car was fixed to pass his name around for any kind of work.  he talked about his skills and carpentry and ability to fix cars. He wanted to start his own business but he didn't have cash and I'm sure he couldn't get a loan since he didn't have a job.   It seems like he was always very entrepreneurial in looking at the possibility of opening a mechanic shop and then later whining big three construction company. I think Jack was right but not a good  good student in high school that's why he went to the Vietnamese war. I don't think he got a deferment as a college student. At the time if you didn't have parents who are college educated or who had a lot of  money, a lot of times you just didn't go in to college world.   We know he didn't have a father that encouraged him I thought that he was valuable.  A lot of the Vietnam vets never got it together.  I admire Jack for serving his country even though it was a terrible war. Most of the young soldiers didn't know what they were getting into. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Kira53

[DebbieM4]

1 hour ago, milner said:

When they came out of the poker game I was yelling "Run"!!

So was I!  They knew going in that it was a dangerous situation, and the vibe when they left was definitely scary.  Why on earth did they hang around outside?  In a situation like that, you don't jump around celebrating the vast amount of money you won - You get the hell out of there.  I know they were young, but they didn't seem stupid enough to do that.

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

 

I really do not like these eps where we only see for the most part only 2 of the characters or one group of the characters for the entire ep. And I really dislike Mandy Moore so any all ep past ep bugs.

I saw Mandy Moore on The View last week, and she said this episode would be all Jack & Rebecca, which most definitely did not make me happy.  I am not all that interested in their story, which I know puts me in the minority.  But - more than that - I am not a fan of Rebecca or Mandy Moore, so I was kind of bored with much of this episode.   I was a Mom who put my career on the backburner to raise my kids, but I just can't relate to Rebecca at all.  I really need her in small doses.

21 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

Is it too late to kill off Rebecca instead of Jack?

Just asking.

I would be on board with that!  :-)

7 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Because manipulation is what the show is all about. I think the show runners really oversold and overhyped this episode and had everyone all anticipating the big death. People laid in supplies of Kleenex and eagerly  prepared to cry their eyes out. It's kind of funny that I'm seeing comments all over Facebook bemoaning the lack of drama and twists and tears for this one. People are actually angry the episode didn't make them cry til they had to change their tear soaked jammies. I think the producers really need to dial back in the promises that every episode will be the most gut punching one yet. It makes casual fans like me roll their eyes (and pretty much guarantee I'm never gonna cry over it), and it possibly alienates the fan base that really loves the weeping and emotional  heart wrenching  

The meet cute was way too cute, and the obligatory monologue was---there. Ditching a blind date is pretty rude--I have ditched one, long ago, when the arty shaggy tatt'd cute guy turned out instead to be a homophobic d-bag, but Rebecca just had to follow that dream!! Of course, it was fate. She had to be in that bar at that specific moment to save jack from a life of crime with her songbird voice. Whatevs. 

 

Yes, it was very definitely oversold.  There was a whole lot of hype that was completely unwarranted.  I didn't find it emotional in the slightest, and pretty much a letdown.  I had no expectations of finding out anything about Jack's death, but I did expect there to be a little somethin' somethin' considering it was the season finale.

I also agree that the meet cute was way too cute.   Almost laughable, such a cliche.  And I also agree that ditching a blind date the way Rebecca did was pretty awful.  He seemed like a nice guy, dull perhaps, but decent.  She should have either hung in for a long enough time to be polite, or come up with a better reason for running out.  That was really rude, and she'd certainly be all up in arms if some guy did that to her.  Not nice!  (I also thought it was glaringly obvious that the blind dates Jack & Rebecca were preparing for were not going to be with each other.)

[Ryan Chamberlain]

The critics who watched the episode before us were either

 

a)high when they watched it

b)hyping the show

c)got a different copy of the episode

[tribeca]

I really can't stop thinking of Rebecca poor blind date and how rude she was to him.   She had to sing. 

[spiritof76]

I think I would have enjoyed this episode more, if the producers hadn't spent two weeks telling my how amazing and emotional it was going to be. Because it was actually a really good episode. It was very well done and well acted but I couldn't really enjoy because I kept waiting for "something to happen " because they had told us "something was going to happen ". I'm not one that needs big twists and turns and crazy emotional moments, but when you imply there might be some, well, I'm probably going to look for them. All that being said it was a good episode.

I do not like the continued sanctification of Jack at all. I thought both he and Rebecca had valid points, but somehow the show is still setting it up as Jack good, Rebecca bad. There is nothing wrong with a wife and mother admitting they need more in their lives. Maybe she didn't go about it all the best way, but her feelings are valid. I don't think Rebecca thought she was going to suddenly be big and famous. She just wanted to carve out a little something for herself that wasn't about being a wife and mother. If that meant singing in just the greater tri-state area I think that would have suited her just fine. 

[Amethyst]

I don't see any problem with Rebecca wanting to sing.  Dreams and ambitions don't just disappear when you choose a different path, and singing is something that's always made her happy.  It's something that belongs to her alone, and it's not about being someone's wife or someone's mother.  Her kids aren't babies anymore, they're becoming young adults with their own independence.  Why shouldn't Rebecca have something for herself?

And while Rebecca has made mistakes, she clearly loves her husband and her children.  She's done the best she can.  She doesn't deserve to be vilified for that.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Amethyst
spelling error!

[DebbieM4]

30 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

 

I was slightly disappointed in this ep yet grateful, as the last 2 have gutted me. It was almost nice to have a "cry break".

 

I would be okay with a so-so episode and a break from crying, except that this was the season finale.  We know that they can bring it, and I wish they had ended the season with a much more emotional and compelling episode than this one.