S04.E07: A Honeymoon and a Courtship

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I'm always amazed at how we can all watch the same show but have so many different views.  I don't get a creepy, controlling, or weird vibe from Jeremy.  At all.  If anything, I think maybe he is a bit uncomfortable on camera and so that's why he seems awkward sometimes.  Mileage varies, I guess.

I think a lot of us are stuck on the word "meek" that he seemed (but of course, who knows, given the fragmented nature of what we see) to use as his main criteria for thinking Jinger was just his cup of tea.

I don't watch the show, but I've watched some of Jeremy's sermonizing and a few other clips. His sermonizing demeanor in the masturbation sermon, especially; that word "meek" (which he seemed to focus on); plus the fact that, given what we know about him, it would seem that he probably had an adequate number of routes to finding a not-reality-tv woman who had had a life more similar to his and was more like a 20-something than a 12ish person all together make me feel that there's something strange about what he's doing. I don't necessarily see him being a super-controller or whatever. I don't know what I see, really, except a group of facts that just seem off somehow. The whole thing doesn't seem like the natural path to a natural relationship that you'd see from an ordinary guy with a history and life situation like his. It just feels off. He just feels off. And when something feels off to me, I'm suspicious of it! 

I do think that it'll be hard for any Duggar to attract a really normal person. For the same reason that pretty much anybody who's even a little famous learns to be extremely wary of relationships -- even when they don't realize it, people who seek out relationships with the famous virtually always do it with ulterior motives that are a problem. (and that's certainly been true of the previous two guys here)  I'm skeptical of Duggar-attraction by anybody who seems to have even a tiny bit of spotlight-craving about them, which I kind of think Jeremy does, based on his sermonizing demeanor. And I'm skeptical that you'd find a really normal person flying into the Duggar situation really fast and/or actively seeking it out, as it seems Jeremy may have done. That, to me, suggests that there's some ulterior motive for that relationship, whether or not the person realizes he has that motive or not. 

But since those are all just impressions, they could be just as flawed as anybody else's impressions! For Jinger's sake, I hope he's a great and very normal person. ....

Edited March 9, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Missy Vixen]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

The whole thing doesn't seem like the natural path to a natural relationship that you'd see from an ordinary guy with a history and life situation like his. It just feels off. He just feels off. And when something feels off to me, I'm suspicious of it! 

 

There's nothing normal about any guy who would choose to enter into this type of relationship. They can't attract or relate to women who actually have an education that's marketable, holds a job outside of the home, or makes her own decisions. They have to have the constant dependency on and hero worship of THE HEADSHIP. After all, they can't handle dealing with anyone who might question their decisions or have to listen to her opinion at all. There's something fundamentally wrong with any male who would choose to marry a woman with little to no education, little to no life experience, and would be unable to function if he was out of the picture or unable for any reason to make all of the decisions. He's terminally immature (and insecure) for starters. Forcing another human adult into dependency is not normal or desirable behavior.

I really detest the Bateseseses for enabling Gothard by turning a blind eye, but the fact that their daughters were encouraged to get a job (even in fast food) as teens - they might not bring in a ton of money, but there's a lot to be said for all women being able to get and hold a job no matter what her husband brings home.

There's a reason why Bin, The Holy Goalie, Triple D and Joshley Madison were single, and it wasn't due to a woman shortage. Joy seems to be following in these footsteps as well -- marrying someone controlling that can't countenance a woman who might have a brain or something to talk about besides the weather or the Bible. One can hardly wait to see the "meek" woman I'm sure Joe has now entered into a courtship with as well; I can't imagine what kind of shitshow this will be, too.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I don't know if it is so much the fact that Jinger is controllable or dependent that appeals to Jeremy.  I think the biggest part of it is the fact that she is a virgin.  

Guys like him are happy to sow their wild oats but when it comes time to settle down, they want an untouched little flower.  And in this day and age, if you want a virgin, you either have to marry a schoolgirl or find a young woman who has been ruthlessly sheltered the way the Duggar girls have been.  So he can say he wants a "meek" wife all he wants, but I think it's really more about Jinger's "purity" than anything else.  He just can't come right out and say it.

[sATL]

　wrong show.. sorry !

Edited March 9, 2017 by sATL

[SmallTownMom]

When I heard that Joy was engaged, I said, "Now she can marry her 'best friend'!"

Today I saw on MSN.com that Joy said she is so excited to be engaged to her best friend.

Can I call them or what?  :)

It wasn't hard, since they all parrot the same approved phrases.

It is special and surreal to be entering this season of life.  She prayed for a man who has a heart for the Lort, blah, blah, blah.

STFU.

[Missy Vixen]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I don't know if it is so much the fact that Jinger is controllable or dependent that appeals to Jeremy.  I think the biggest part of it is the fact that she is a virgin.  

Guys like him are happy to sow their wild oats but when it comes time to settle down, they want an untouched little flower.  And in this day and age, if you want a virgin, you either have to marry a schoolgirl or find a young woman who has been ruthlessly sheltered the way the Duggar girls have been.  So he can say he wants a "meek" wife all he wants, but I think it's really more about Jinger's "purity" than anything else.  He just can't come right out and say it.

 

Here's a question: Why does he think he deserves a virgin?

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Here's a question: Why does he think he deserves a virgin?

Because after fucking around with soccer groupies, he is now a revert born again Christian and has decided that all that sin was so, so wrong!!!! he has rededicated his life to Christ and wants a pure MEEK bride.

I wonder, deep down, if that bothers Jinger.  She was brain washed to believe that a kiss is giving away pieces of your heart. So how do we explain Jeremy's born again virginity? Is his heart in tatters?  

Does Jinger wonder if the other girls were better than her?  or more fun?  or Jeremy thinks of other women while he is having "date night' with Jinger? 

[tabloidlover]

exacty.   You will never convince me this doesn't run through Jinger's mind from time to time.

[MamaMax]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:41 PM, Marigold said:

If Jeremy is so anti-Duggar that he can't even stand to have one around for 6 months  why did her marry a Duggar?  She is gonna have a lot of baggage, is uneducated, socially awkward, dependent and basically strange to the rest of the world.  

I think he likes the "meek Jinger" and that "Jinger is a good follower" and wants to boss her around.  Isolate her and then re-mold her in his image. 

Jeremy is so weird. 

I don't know, I think it's like summer camp where kids aren't allowed to talk to their parents for a week or two in the beginning, to lessen the homesickness.  I also agree that Jinge probably does suspect that she might have constant houseguests if they didn't specifically request that they NOT come. 

On 3/9/2017 at 8:15 AM, Marigold said:

That's the fun of posting here!!!  everyone has a different view and all of them are pretty well thought out!

I've watched some of Jeremy's sermons and truly, he seems the same as the entire cult, just speaks in a softer voice and is more modern with the clothing.  He appears more contemporary but the views are all the same. 

My first red flag for Jeremy is how initially he liked Jinger because she is "meek".  Meek is code for "you're easy to control" Women take it as a compliment meaning they know how to submit to God and their headship.  (father or husband).   Yuck. 

I think Jeremy's meek = NOT a feminist, and definitely not sexually experienced or sexually aggressive.  He is trying to turn around his life of "sexual promiscuity," so he needed a girl who wouldn't tempt him.  However, I get the feeling that Babe is probably the ONLY guy in this group who might sexually satisfy his wife. He grew up in a home (I think) that wasn't part of the purity cult and so I think he has fewer hangups than the Duggars.  I know his sermons about masturbation, etc seem somewhat extreme...but like many devout Catholics, you can not believe in premarital sex and/or masturbation, and still be SUPER enthusiastic about martial sex! Even if you're not specifically trying for a baby, or even if you are using natural family planning to avoid a pregnancy.  

Edited March 10, 2017 by MamaMax

[trimthatfat]

On 3/8/2017 at 5:17 PM, Marigold said:

I just don't like or trust Jeremy.  I think he is an unstable nutcase.  Plus a fame whore.

I'll agree to disagree  and I hope all is well in the Vuolo household. I've seen certifiably mentally ill individuals and I do not see those characteristics in Jeremy. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by trimthatfat

[louannems]

What about his slow-paced, babytalk voice, his measured patients, his overly animated features?  Doesn't that put him in the unstable nutcase category? His dad said both parents prayed so hard that he would marry, it makes me wonder if they knew something about their son that would make getting married and settling down difficult.

[Gweilo]

Eh, when it comes to the Duggars and their spouses, I just automatically assume that each one of them has a sordid scandal that's going to eventually surface. It saves time.

[ThinkerBell]

On 09/03/2017 at 5:38 PM, SmallTownMom said:

When I heard that Joy was engaged, I said, "Now she can marry her 'best friend'!"

Today I saw on MSN.com that Joy said she is so excited to be engaged to her best friend.

It's such a predictable part of approved Duggar Speak isn't it? Jinger spouted the same propaganda about Jeremy. No doubt, Jill gushed that Derrick is her best buddy too. The reality is the Cult imposes such restrictions, that there is no way one of the daughters could ever have a real friendship with someone of the opposite sex. It's all about pairing them off for baby-making and keeping the women folk under the heavy thumb of the first applicant that sails through Jim Bob's vetting process.

[MamaMax]

14 hours ago, louannems said:

What about his slow-paced, babytalk voice, his measured patients, his overly animated features?  Doesn't that put him in the unstable nutcase category? His dad said both parents prayed so hard that he would marry, it makes me wonder if they knew something about their son that would make getting married and settling down difficult.

Well, he was raised by a preacher, and he was a pro athlete who was running around with women. I am sure they didn't approve and wanted him to settle down.

[ariel]

10 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Well, he was raised by a preacher, and he was a pro athlete who was running around with women. I am sure they didn't approve and wanted him to settle down.

Was his father a preacher when he was growing up or did his father become a preacher later in life?

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 3/9/2017 at 9:30 PM, tabloidlover said:

exacty.   You will never convince me this doesn't run through Jinger's mind from time to time.

It would seem only second nature, but one has to wonder, with all the training ingrained that the headship's words are gospel, whether she somehow doesn't have it in her to wonder if his affirmations (assuming she gets them) could possibly be false. 

Of course, having a model like Joshley in the family could make a difference...

[xwordfanatik]

On 3/9/2017 at 0:43 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

I don't know if it is so much the fact that Jinger is controllable or dependent that appeals to Jeremy.  I think the biggest part of it is the fact that she is a virgin.  

Guys like him are happy to sow their wild oats but when it comes time to settle down, they want an untouched little flower.  And in this day and age, if you want a virgin, you either have to marry a schoolgirl or find a young woman who has been ruthlessly sheltered the way the Duggar girls have been.  So he can say he wants a "meek" wife all he wants, but I think it's really more about Jinger's "purity" than anything else.  He just can't come right out and say it.

I agree, Celia, I also love your avatar!  

[Missy Vixen]

10 hours ago, ThinkerBell said:

On 3/9/2017 at 2:38 PM, SmallTownMom said:

keeping the women folk under the heavy thumb of the first applicant that sails through Jim Bob's vetting process.

 

 

One can imagine there isn't much of a "vetting" process these days. He might check for a pulse.

It's all about keeping the show on the air (and the money coming in) by any means necessary, up to and including marrying his children off to virtual strangers.

[DangerousMinds]

On March 9, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Marigold said:

That's the fun of posting here!!!  everyone has a different view and all of them are pretty well thought out!

I've watched some of Jeremy's sermons and truly, he seems the same as the entire cult, just speaks in a softer voice and is more modern with the clothing.  He appears more contemporary but the views are all the same. 

My first red flag for Jeremy is how initially he liked Jinger because she is "meek".  Meek is code for "you're easy to control" Women take it as a compliment meaning they know how to submit to God and their headship.  (father or husband).   Yuck. 

IIRC, he called her meek and "willing to sacrifice." Creepy.

[AUgirl]

Quote

If she's even four weeks along with an August announcement, that puts Henry and the new one 14 months apart. It wouldn't surprise me. 

 Edited March 1 by Sew Sumi.

 

 

 

 

 

Slacker. If she's really industrious she'll get busy sooner and have an "Irish twin" for little Henry. 

[Sew Sumi]

Even superbreeders Mechelle and Kelly Jo Bates couldn't do better than 13 months. 

But hey, Ben will be on it in about two weeks, as they would either be adhering to 40 days for a boy or the more common 6 weeks. I guess we'll find out how quickly her cycles come back. LOL

[Celia Rubenstein]

On 3/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, louannems said:

What about (Jeremy's) slow-paced, babytalk voice, his measured patients, his overly animated features?  Doesn't that put him in the unstable nutcase category? 

I don't believe Jeremy is an unstable nutcase.  As our SuzyLee observed a few weeks ago ...

Quote

Babe is one patronizing motherfucker.

That is my take on his slow-paced baby talk and exaggerated expressions ... Jeremy is basically talking down to us dumb shits who watch the show (and to his wife and his in-laws and well, everybody).  He has to speak s-l-o-w-l-y and pull a face so all us dunderheads can process what he is saying and benefit from the brilliance he feels compelled to lavish upon everyone. 

He is probably quite insufferable in real life.  But not because he is nuts, more just because he is a bit of an asshole. 

[MamaMax]

12 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

IIRC, he called her meek and "willing to sacrifice." Creepy.

Seems to me she would have to be willing to sacrifice to be the wife of a preacher like him, he cant be making any real money, can he?

[Churchhoney]

On 3/11/2017 at 10:57 AM, ariel said:

Was his father a preacher when he was growing up or did his father become a preacher later in life?

Looks like most of his adult life, based on what's below. ... But .... now he thinks that Amish or lapsed Amish who convert to something else didn't believe in Christ ever before? Huh?..... Sounds disturbingly similar to the Dullards converting Catholics to Christ. .... This family. Converting the Amish, converting Catholics -- What's next -- a conversion mission specially directed at Lutherans? Color me theologically confused. 

"Pastor Chuck Vuolo has been married to his wife Diana for thirty-four years. Together, they have three grown children. Chuck pastored in Downingtown from 1986 to 2005. From 2005 to 2010, he was a full-time worker in the Amish community, leading Bible studies, counseling, evangelizing, and helping to nurture Amish believers in their newfound faith in Christ. From 2010 to the present, he has been serving, half-time, as a pastor of a church plant, New Life Community Church in Kingsville, MD.. The other half of his time is devoted to ministry in Lancaster County among the Amish, ex-Amish and others (mostly in the "plain community). His passion is to see people set free from the guilt and bondage of sin through the gospel of the grace of God in Jesus Christ and to help young believers to grow in their understanding of and commitment to God's Word."

http://www.amishawareness.com/featured-speakers.html

Edited March 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

19 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Looks like most of his adult life, based on what's below. ... But .... now he thinks that Amish or lapsed Amish who convert to something else didn't believe in Christ ever before? Huh?..... Sounds disturbingly similar to the Dullards converting Catholics to Christ. .... This family. Converting the Amish, converting Catholics -- What's next -- a conversion mission specially directed at Lutherans? Color me theologically confused. 

"Pastor Chuck Vuolo has been married to his wife Diana for thirty-four years. Together, they have three grown children. Chuck pastored in Downingtown from 1986 to 2005. From 2005 to 2010, he was a full-time worker in the Amish community, leading Bible studies, counseling, evangelizing, and helping to nurture Amish believers in their newfound faith in Christ. From 2010 to the present, he has been serving, half-time, as a pastor of a church plant, New Life Community Church in Kingsville, MD.. The other half of his time is devoted to ministry in Lancaster County among the Amish, ex-Amish and others (mostly in the "plain community). His passion is to see people set free from the guilt and bondage of sin through the gospel of the grace of God in Jesus Christ and to help young believers to grow in their understanding of and commitment to God's Word."

http://www.amishawareness.com/featured-speakers.html

I'm confused right along with you. "Newfound faith in Christ".... huh?!!!

Although, given that Jeremy's dad was a pastor during his youth, I have more faith Jeremy might take the pastorhood seriously. A life of service, counseling those in need, inspiring others, actually HELPING people. 

[doodlebug]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I'm confused right along with you. "Newfound faith in Christ".... huh?!!!

Although, given that Jeremy's dad was a pastor during his youth, I have more faith Jeremy might take the pastorhood seriously. A life of service, counseling those in need, inspiring others, actually HELPING people. 

Maybe, but for a lot of these evangelical types, the only way to 'help' someone is to bring them to your version of Christ so they can be saved.  Nothing else is important so very little other counseling or help is given.  Since Jeremy's father seems to classify the Amish as non-Christians; I suspect he's got a pretty narrow view as to what sort of inspiration and assistance they need and isn't into much service to others except for preaching that they're going to hell if they don't repent and become 'Christian' just like him.  Any counseling he provides would probably be in the same vein.  Not that some people might not find this useful, but I don't think most people are looking for or need his brand of 'help'.

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Maybe, but for a lot of these evangelical types, the only way to 'help' someone is to bring them to your version of Christ so they can be saved.  Nothing else is important so very little other counseling or help is given.  Since Jeremy's father seems to classify the Amish as non-Christians; I suspect he's got a pretty narrow view as to what sort of inspiration and assistance they need and isn't into much service to others except for preaching that they're going to hell if they don't repent and become 'Christian' just like him.  Any counseling he provides would probably be in the same vein.  Not that some people might not find this useful, but I don't think most people are looking for or need his brand of 'help'.

You're most likely right. Just DAMN, I was hoping one adult Duggar in-law would have an actual PROFESSION. 

I have seen the good and valuable service a pastor provides to their congregation and larger community, although I may not be of their faith I have tremendous respect for someone who served in that fashion, I don't have respect for the "pastoring" Derrick and perhaps Jeremy are doing. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

52 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I'm confused right along with you. "Newfound faith in Christ".... huh?!!!

Replace the word "newfound" with the word "corrected"  and it will make more sense.  Because that's just what is going on ... the Amish believe in Christ but not the right way, so they need fixin' and that's what Babe Sr.'s brand of evangelism is all about.

Man, when the Amish are not straight enough arrows for you, you are one uptight motherfucker. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Replace the word "newfound" with the word "corrected"  and it will make more sense.  Because that's just what is going on ... the Amish believe in Christ but not the right way, so they need fixin' and that's what Babe Sr.'s brand of evangelism is all about.

Man, when the Amish are not straight enough arrows for you, you are one uptight motherfucker. 

I'm wondering if Chuck actually ministers more to those who have been shunned or have already left the Amish. It's very painful to be shunned.

[cereality]

Maybe Jer wants a 6 months hiatus from the family bc he doesn't want to deal with JB or maybe be he wants Jing to be able to function without a gaggle of siblings bc he doesn't intend to live his life with monthly sibling visits. But reality is that the only way I will view this hiatus as for Jing's benefit is if she emerges from it (i) not pregnant/not talking about how she's sooooo concerned that they've been married for 6 months and haven't been blessed and she's peeing on sticks 24-7; and (ii) having Jer encourage her to do something, anything to acclimate to the real world -- a photography class; a job as a photographers' assistant or even at a Sears photo studio; working part time at a coffee shop; taking a community college class -- anything, really. But I can pretty much bet this won't happen. They married in Nov. and thus will re-integrate with the family around May which puts it right around Joy's wedding. I can bet they'll be talking about how much they are waiting for a blessing - if they aren't expecting already. Reality is - Jer needs Jing to be away from the family so she can learn to take directions (subtly) from him as headship. He needs to train her on how he wants his laundry done, his home kept, and how he likes his Italian meals cooked; he knows how to cook, but I highly doubt he'll be doing it often once Jing is trained up -- which will take a while since he had to start off showing her that you can buy a chunk of mozzarella and grate it . . . .

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

Reality is - Jer needs Jing to be away from the family so she can learn to take directions (subtly) from him as headship. He needs to train her on how he wants his laundry done, his home kept, and how he likes his Italian meals cooked; he knows how to cook,

It is possible - but its my opinion that Jeremy is somewhat different from the Duggars.  I think he is conservative Christian, not Gothard, and not Duggar.  That picture of Jinger in a polo, shorts, and tennis shoes shows he is not a Duggar clone.   He may believe in the male is the head of the household theory, but he seemed perfectly comfortable with Jinger dressing that way in public.  Not only that, but he appears to be dressed up and holding tracts to give away.  Yet, Jinger is dressed casually ... and in shorts.   So, he didn't care that she didn't project the proper 'image' of a meek helpmate.  It wasn't just that the 'heat' meant she needed to dress a little less bulky, because she could have done that in a skirt that came to her knees.  She's also wearing tennis shoes rather than flip-flops, which is also a deviance from the Duggar approved footwear. 

Will he be imparting how he likes his household run - probably, but he's 29 and has HAD a household.  Since Jinger's jurisdictions weren't laundry or cooking, then she's got to learn sometime from someone.  If she's not working, then I'm not all that terribly upset that she will be the one expected to do it.  She's an adult, and it's not Jeremy's responsibility to do it all while she does.... what?

Edited March 13, 2017 by mythoughtis

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I'm wondering if Chuck actually ministers more to those who have been shunned or have already left the Amish. It's very painful to be shunned.

I'm sure that's part of it. But, unfortunately, based on what I've read about these evangelizers-of-the-Amish, their main schtick is to get in there and bring the committed Amish to their senses about what Christ is really about. It's a skim-off-the-other-religion affair, just like the a lot of other evangelizing is. Some in the Amish communities there have been pretty unhappy about it for the decade or so that it's really been going on. 

[Jellybeans]

I live in a town that is religious heavy ...Focus on the Family is here as well as Compassionate International and several other groups, can't recall at the moment all the current flavors lol.  

Anyway, Jeremy seems very normal to me- if he is unstable well then quite a few people in my town are as well.  

I belong to none of the above.  ;-)

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm sure that's part of it. But, unfortunately, based on what I've read about these evangelizers-of-the-Amish, their main schtick is to get in there and bring the committed Amish to their senses about what Christ is really about. It's a skim-off-the-other-religion affair, just like the a lot of other evangelizing is. Some in the Amish communities there have been pretty unhappy about it for the decade or so that it's really been going on. 

So what do they think Christ IS really about?

[MamaMax]

19 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I'm wondering if Chuck actually ministers more to those who have been shunned or have already left the Amish. It's very painful to be shunned.

 

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm sure that's part of it. But, unfortunately, based on what I've read about these evangelizers-of-the-Amish, their main schtick is to get in there and bring the committed Amish to their senses about what Christ is really about. It's a skim-off-the-other-religion affair, just like the a lot of other evangelizing is. Some in the Amish communities there have been pretty unhappy about it for the decade or so that it's really been going on. 

 

58 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

So what do they think Christ IS really about?

I believe that the Amish have a very different idea about Salvation. 

 

See: http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/amish-protestant-beliefs-apart/2015/04/02/id/635785/

 

Quote

 Nature of Salvation: While the Amish share the belief of most Protestants that salvation is an unearned gift from God, they don't believe that faith automatically guarantees salvation. Many reject the belief common to other Protestant denominations that anyone can be certain that his salvation is guaranteed. They consider such certainty to be arrogant.

This is big stuff for Fundies, I believe. The faith vs. works argument has long been a wedge between different denominations of Christians. But to say, you can never been certain you've been saved? Them's fighting words.

[Whyyouneedaname]

On 3/10/2017 at 11:29 AM, MamaMax said:

I don't know, I think it's like summer camp where kids aren't allowed to talk to their parents for a week or two in the beginning, to lessen the homesickness.  I also agree that Jinge probably does suspect that she might have constant houseguests if they didn't specifically request that they NOT come. 

 

With the amount of free time the Duggars seem to have, you know those pesky jobs that require you to be there at 8 and stay until 5 every day, yeah they don't have those, Jinge knew they would be over run by unwanted guest that overstayed their welcome for days on end. I do not blame either one of them, maybe it was Jeremy that made her aware of it but regardless I'd want some privacy too. 

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, MamaMax said:

 

 

I believe that the Amish have a very different idea about Salvation. 

 

See: http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/amish-protestant-beliefs-apart/2015/04/02/id/635785/

 

This is big stuff for Fundies, I believe. The faith vs. works argument has long been a wedge between different denominations of Christians. But to say, you can never been certain you've been saved? Them's fighting words.

But... is/are they "fighting words" that requires an entire mission to be devoted to correcting them...??  That's worse than "converting" Catholics.  Couldn't you just, I dunno, drop some tracts and run?

[Arwen Evenstar]

15 hours ago, queenanne said:

But... is/are they "fighting words" that requires an entire mission to be devoted to correcting them...??  That's worse than "converting" Catholics.  Couldn't you just, I dunno, drop some tracts and run?

It's one thing to provide a church home to those seeking one, or to provide pastoral counseling to those trying to replace beliefs that are hurtful and limiting with healthier beliefs.

i don't think people mind the "we're here to talk if you want to" or "not happy in your current church?...check us out" approach as long as it's respectful, but approaches like badgering, bothering, or "my version is better than yours", is like trying to draw flies with vinegar.

[88Keys]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:26 PM, louannems said:

What about his slow-paced, babytalk voice, his measured patients, his overly animated features?  Doesn't that put him in the unstable nutcase category?

Or it could just put him in the "awkward on camera" category.  Or maybe "awkward on camera and trying way too hard to compensate for it."  As someone who is very awkward and uncomfortable when being filmed, I get it. 

[Churchhoney]

On 3/13/2017 at 1:49 PM, DangerousMinds said:

So what do they think Christ IS really about?

Well, I expect it's just their particular checklist of stuff like -- Exactly what they think about faith and/or works; Exactly what they think Christians are/will be doing as the End Times approach and after they're here; Exactly how they interpret different concepts such as grace, repentance, faith, baptism, etc. ..... 

I think with most of these people we're talking about stuff that I'd see as differences in detail of interpretation (and thus stuff about which no human can be absolutely certain) -- but that they see as differences that they somehow absolutely grasp the truth of and that immediately damn you or don't, depending on whether you buy some other way or buy theirs. .... Not that that's different from stuff that Christians have fought among themselves about and burned each other at the stake about for thousands of years, of course. 

21 hours ago, queenanne said:

But... is/are they "fighting words" that requires an entire mission to be devoted to correcting them...??  That's worse than "converting" Catholics.  Couldn't you just, I dunno, drop some tracts and run?

I think that some people just would never have faith that you could trust other people to read a tract and change their minds -- after all, that might depend on their using their treacherous reason; plus, by being there maybe you can help them get some fly-by grace or something. Plus, I'm thinking it's a very big deal in this crowd of ministers' and missionaries' minds to be the ones that bring these others to the true religion. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Churchhoney
because sometimes periods are better than semicolons

[kalamac]

8 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It's one thing to provide a church home to those seeking one, or to provide pastoral counseling to those trying to replace beliefs that are hurtful and limiting with healthier beliefs.

i don't think people mind the "we're here to talk if you want to" or "not happy in your current church?...check us out" approach as long as it's respectful, but approaches like badgering, bothering, or "my version is better than yours", is like trying to draw flies with vinegar.

Off topic, but you're actually more likely to attract flies with vinegar than honey, especially apple cider vinegar. Vinegar is made through fermentation which to flies smells like rotting, which they're attracted to. Honey on the other hand is generally pasteurized which prevents fermentation, making it less attractive to flies.

Something, something Duggars like flies, swarming and unwanted, to bring it back on topic.

[Arwen Evenstar]

23 minutes ago, kalamac said:

Off topic, but you're actually more likely to attract flies with vinegar than honey, especially apple cider vinegar. Vinegar is made through fermentation which to flies smells like rotting, which they're attracted to. Honey on the other hand is generally pasteurized which prevents fermentation, making it less attractive to flies.

Something, something Duggars like flies, swarming and unwanted, to bring it back on topic.

Very interesting. Like most folksy expressions, they have their day until disproven. This expression is still used in the South. Basically it means that by being nice, you're more likely to get what you want if you don't act like a Duggar.

[Sew Sumi]

I have a feeling Duggar proselytizing is like the Maxwells' approach: "Do you know where you're going to go when you die?" They're fun like that. 

And I'm sure D-Wreck has at least learned that sentence by heart en Esapnol. 

[trimthatfat]

5 hours ago, 88Keys said:

Or it could just put him in the "awkward on camera" category.  Or maybe "awkward on camera and trying way too hard to compensate for it."  As someone who is very awkward and uncomfortable when being filmed, I get it. 

Yeah, I agree. Honestly, most of the people on these shows are very awkward on camera. I am, too, so I get it. It's why I would never want to be a public figure!

Can someone tell me who Chuck is? Is he a friend of Jeremy's?

[Jynnan tonnix]

22 minutes ago, trimthatfat said:

Yeah, I agree. Honestly, most of the people on these shows are very awkward on camera. I am, too, so I get it. It's why I would never want to be a public figure!

Can someone tell me who Chuck is? Is he a friend of Jeremy's?

Jeremy's Dad.

[trimthatfat]

Just now, Jynnan tonnix said:

Jeremy's Dad.

Thank you.

[DangerousMinds]

I did my share of reading the bible while growing up, and i can't recall Jesus ever talking about "end times." It's been quite a while though.

[88Keys]

17 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I did my share of reading the bible while growing up, and i can't recall Jesus ever talking about "end times." It's been quite a while though.

Jesus called them the "last days."  

[louannems]

When does the next Boring On episode start?  We need fresh fodder for snarking.

[Teriyaki Terror]

On March 4, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Feel sorry for those in the neighboring rooms having to listen to some high pitched helium squealing of Baaaaaaaabe! all night long.

I can't stand it when my boyfriend calls me babe because of how she says it. Ugh