S04.E07: A Honeymoon and a Courtship

[Missy Vixen]

10 hours ago, Abmis said:

That said, I don't think Jinger should have to chose between Jeremy and her family.  

 

I don't think he's forcing her to "choose". I think he'd like the first six months of their marriage to get to know each other. We've seen he's friends with Bin; who thinks that Bin may have clued him in on exactly the sheer amount of crazy he's going to be dealing with as far as the Duggars? I realize that guys don't typically have heart-to-hearts with each other, but one also has to think that Bin has had time to count the cost and wishes he might have taken things a bit more slowly as far as a courtship, etcetera. Two kids before age 22 (right?) has to be somewhat sobering, especially when one's "job" is dependent on TV ratings.

The Holy Goalie may turn out to be a real ass, but I hope that he's enforcing the six-month thing in order to get their marriage on a firm footing. One has to wonder what would have happened if Triple D and Bin had had the truth about what was going on at the TTH before they took the long walk up the aisle - would they have made another choice? Nobody can accuse Holy Goalie of going into this blind.

[Marigold]

36 minutes ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

I have spent way too much thought on what those first few days must have been like for her. Being more worldly than Derrick or Ben, did Jeremy engage in foreplay? Was there any attention to her needs? Given that she has spent her whole life covered up, did she walk around naked? Did they shower together? I have so many questions and I hate myself for thinking of them. 

i think nature runs its course with those things.  ;)   (Unless it is a sicko like Tabitha's fiance. I worry about that situation)

We all kinda wonder but there is a first time for everyone and I doubt it's much different.  I grew up IFB (lite) and I never heard anything very interesting, odd or juicy.  Just a honeymoon and normal, fun honeymoon activity.  I remember one friend kinda flipped and wouldn't come out of the bathroom...it took a few nights to get in the groove.  They've been married for 20+ years so I guess it worked out.  I had some very religious Orthodox Jews in college who did not touch or kiss before marriage and they seemed to all have really fun honeymoons!

I was like Jinger, with kissing, and it worked out pretty easily. ;)

[Minivanessa]

About the "no visiting for 6 months" thing.

I think it was discussed here, shortly into the Dillards' marriage, that Jill had to adjust to literally not having at least a dozen other human beings in her immediate vicinity at all times. She went from the TTH where not only was she never alone, there were always a lot of other people in the house, to living in a house that she shared only with Derick. I can't remember if that adjustment was something acknowledged by Jill or Derick or the Duggars, or we spotted it as a probable or definite issue. (I do recall Derick mentioning that when she was Growing Up Duggar, at mealtimes Jill would take her food into the bathroom so she could eat it all.)

Jinger's moved the farthest from the TTH as a newlywed, and I hope she does well with that adjustment. IIRC in the early episodes of Counting On, she often had a look on her face that pretty much announced she was just Over It. Whether "it" was being in front of a TLC camera, or being single, or something else - the girl was not a happy camper. Some people thought she was depressed. She perked right up when Babe showed up, so I hope she was ready - more ready than Jill - to make the big change from living in a herd to living with her spouse. In their home. Just the two of them.

Yay, Jinger and Jeremy, for not letting the boundary-impaired Duggars invade your space!

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jeeves

[BitterApple]

From what I saw in the episodes leading up to the wedding, everyone was crying and sad over Jinger leaving, except for Jinger. She might have said a few obligatory catch phrases about missing her sisters etc., but homegirl was happy as hell to be getting out of Dodge. Maybe homesickness will set in eventually, but she definitely seemed better prepared to leave than Jill.

[kalamac]

2 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

July. Allegedly.

Perhaps the lovely Doodlebug could enlighten us on the fact she seems further along than she actually is.

I'm not Doodlebug, nor do I play her on TV, but I'd suggest crappy math skills, and no actual doctors visits to work out her actual due date. Or, giant white baby #2 is getting an early start on being huge by being giant blobby fetus.

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, Love2dance said:

I think that is mainly the Duggars' fault. They have spent so much time stressing over, and over, and over on TV to millions of viewers that courting/engaged couples can barely touch until marriage, it's hard for our brains not to go there. Ugh.

So true. I have never once felt in real life the way I felt watching Jinger pack up that hotel room. Because I have never thought of anyone else's activities on their wedding night. I can't imagine how Jinger felt with this camera crew she has known for years knowing that her virginity was erased that evening, in that bed(s).

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

So true. I have never once felt in real life the way I felt watching Jinger pack up that hotel room. Because I have never thought of anyone else's activities on their wedding night. I can't imagine how Jinger felt with this camera crew she has known for years knowing that her virginity was erased that evening, in that bed(s).

Me too.  Who even thinks about these things?  The Duggars are so hyper-focused on sex that we got dragged into it. 

[ginger90]

The 6 month rule during courtship would have been a better choice.

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

 

Another theory: He thinks Kim Jong Boob is as much of a jackass as the rest of us do and doesn't want him in his house. It's possible.

I actually think both Derick AND Jer probably think this, and Derick despite having the guy as a "prayer partner" or whatever before he actually knew him and knew what he's done (regarding his wife's molestation, for example). They were both raised half normally and have met some other people and have no investment in actual Gothardism. Bin I'm not so sure about. Being a child-husband may be different. 

You would definitely need your wife's cooperation to limit JB's presence really significantly, though. So we'll see how Jer manages. Depends on Jinge, really, I think. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Churchhoney

[LilJen]

13 hours ago, awaken said:

"He's got good stick and rudder skillz, as they say" per JD.  Love it!

That annoying aggrieved look when Austin comes a-courtin'.  And the questioning about how the house flipping is going as if he cares how the guy will support his daughter (exhibit A and B- see, Ben and Derick).  Ugh, so put on and fake, I could hardly stand looking.  As if he had no idea it was coming and he was completely blindsided!  As if he was not arranging this to keep the gravy train rolling!

Duh. "Her heart for the Lord, her diligence, her character"  Required responses.  Every single hopeful suitor says the same about his intended.  "Her... beauty" (ie, boobage, as stated above!)

I am reminded of "She's got HUGE. . . tracts of land!" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

[Arwen Evenstar]

39 minutes ago, LilJen said:

I am reminded of "She's got HUGE. . . tracts of land!" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

LOL....it crossed my mind, too. There's quite a few "Prince Herberts" out in Fundyland. Wonder if TFDW and Brandon had a similar exchange. Enjoy the YouTube clip.

It's a real shame for many of these Fundy kids  being married off, whether they wanted to be or not. They were basically told their dreams didn't matter.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar

[louannems]

13 hours ago, Marigold said:

When Austin went to talk to Jim Bob, what kinda room was that?  An office?  I saw a Bible laying open.  What were in all those boxes?

Why did JinJer have twin beds in their honeymoon room?  They were both slept in too.  I thought that was super weird.   

That was the old nursery, the alcove off the master bedroom. One of the boxes was labeled Food and Clothing. Walmart, etc. I suspect they put receipts in their for record keeping.

[Absolom]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

The hotel with the double beds was in Arkansas; they were on their way to Oz that morning. 

Some hotels in Arkansas don't have rooms with a king size bed.  I don't know where they stayed so I don't know if it was an option.  The one we stayed in when leaving with my mother only offered rooms with two beds.  On the other hand the one down the street where we often stayed while visiting had king suites but they don't take pets.  Perhaps it didn't matter to them.

12 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

The Holy Goalie may turn out to be a real ass, but I hope that he's enforcing the six-month thing in order to get their marriage on a firm footing. One has to wonder what would have happened if Triple D and Bin had had the truth about what was going on at the TTH before they took the long walk up the aisle - would they have made another choice? Nobody caon accuse Holy Goalie of going into this blind.

I also think Chuck Vuolo has Jim Bob's number in spades and that he and Jeremy had some honest talks about some of the more "off" aspects of Jim Bob's and Michelle's family dynamic and how to handle it.

[Guest]

Who on early does Jinger keep texting during the beginning of this episode? She barely puts the phone down.

[drafan]

6 minutes ago, heatherrrrz said:

Who on early does Jinger keep texting during the beginning of this episode? She barely puts the phone down.

Mullet is probably texting her to find out if she peed on the stick yet, and to make sure she's packed 100 pregnancy tests for her honeymoon.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, drafan said:

Mullet is probably texting her to find out if she peed on the stick yet, and to make sure she's packed 100 pregnancy tests for her honeymoon.

Haha PROBABLY knowing her.

[DangerousMinds]

14 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

I always felt like I'm getting charged for two beds..we're going to USE both beds :)

One for messing around, one to sleep in.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure the cook wanted to get with Jeremy herself lol. She's a little jealous of them.

[doodlebug]

14 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

July. Allegedly.

Perhaps the lovely Doodlebug could enlighten us on the fact she seems further along than she actually is.

I've got no idea, really.  Maybe she's farther along, but, remember, the Duggars are not particularly tall and Jill's first baby was huge.  It may be that she never regained much muscle tone after carrying the Big White Baby and that she's somewhat short waisted; so she looks farther along than she is because everything is sagging foreward..  I wouldn't predict her gestational age without lying her down flat and measuring her uterus with a tape measure to be sure.  She's also not wearing real clingy clothing in the pics I've seen.  It could be an optical illusion.  If she's due early July, she would be 22 weeks or so now, which would put her uterus an inch or so above her navel; but you'd have to mash on her belly to be sure what was uterus and what was lax muscle tone.  I'm sure many here will attest that they looked bigger sooner with their second child compared to their first.

On tall, skinny people with good muscle tone, it is not too hard to guess gestational age, especially if they are wearing form fitting clothing and it's their first baby.  Not to brag or anything, but I guesstimated a due date on Angelina Jolie when she was carrying her first kid when the initial photos came out.  She delivered within a couple of days of my prediction.  An amazing skill, but not a lot of real world application.

[Absolom]

Lax muscle tone is likely with Jill who doesn't seem to do anything she absolutely doesn't have to do.  Working her abs would not fall on that list for her.  Jessa seemed to do some workouts in between pregnancies.  Ben liking the gym seems to be helping Jessa maintain more shape even with a shorter interval between pregnancies. 

[Fallacy]

I bet they pray before sex. So imagine Jeremy thanking God for creating the covenant of marriage so their desires could be righteously fulfilled and asking that God blesses their union with a child if that is His will.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Fallacy

[drafan]

13 minutes ago, Fallacy said:

I bet they pray before sex. So imagine Jeremy thanking God for creating the covenant of marriage so their desires could be righteously fulfilled and asking that God blesses their union with a child if that is His will.

So the other bed is the "prayer bed" ??? That's some feverish praying.

Gag. And barf.

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

@Natalie68, I love torties! They have so much personality and attitude. We lost our sweet Tabitha last year.

At least we don't put kittens in pitchers or try to run down cats with sleds. I will never understand WHY these people have been allowed to breed. Pitcher kittens can be a metaphor for being raised Duggar.  You can see the sky, but we know you can't climb up the sides to escape!

I am so sorry about Tabitha.  We got Pippi after we lost our tortie Gidget.  So sad.  I wasn't going to get another kitty because its so hard to lose them but my husband reminded me that there are too many kitties that need a good home and we can take that awful time knowing we gave a kitty a great life.  No kids so we spoil those little buggers.  

[ChiCricket]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

you'd have to mash on her belly to be sure

"mash" on her belly? Is that the medical term? ;-) (just teasing, my Southern friend says mash like that too) :-)

[Natalie68]

On 3/1/2017 at 5:48 PM, GeeGolly said:

Jill's due around then too, right? And Jinger will probably a couple months along.

With 4 of them married they could be popping out babies at the rate of 2 a season.

I hope not.  There are enough Duggars on this planet.  MORE than enough.

18 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Jinger said in people.com interview that she Facetimes with her family, and that they were only a short plane trip away. So I think it's more that they dont want the Duggars at their place days and weeks on end. Let's face it, they were at Josh's almost 24/7 and at Danger America almost as much.  With the way they do courtship and engagements, the newlyweds barely know each other's middle names. 

As to the double beds vs king in the hotel room- don't you think that Jinger was having to get used to having a guy in bed with her?  Let's let her gradually do that so she can at least get some sleep. 

I would have loved to have heard that conversation between Babe and Jinge.  Maybe it was ALL her idea and as headship he is the one vocalizing it.  But I say good for them.  They can go to the Duggars.  I would not want them all invading my home which by appearances is small.  They have the manners of well, Duggars!  I also would not want Josie licking my stuff.  First time in her life Jinger is sort of the boss of herself.  I hope she enjoys it.

5 hours ago, heatherrrrz said:

I'm pretty sure the cook wanted to get with Jeremy herself lol. She's a little jealous of them.

I didn't see that at all.  I saw a professional who may have gotten irritated but they were also joking around later in the clips.  I think they only thing to be jealous of with those two is they got a free wedding and vacay in a different country.

[sATL]

6 hours ago, heatherrrrz said:

Haha PROBABLY knowing her.

 

6 hours ago, drafan said:

Mullet is probably texting her to find out if she peed on the stick yet, and to make sure she's packed 100 pregnancy tests for her honeymoon.

Or making sure Jing is "joyfully available" for Jer. (link - 6th paragraph).  ☺

[mbutterfly]

On March 2, 2017 at 10:44 AM, laurakaye said:

Bwahahaha I am glad to see the producers are still having fun playing "Stump the Duggars" each week!  I totally think the backstage crew takes turns writing down questions and placing bets on which kid will be able to answer correctly.

 

WTF???  We cut the cable cord so I don't watch anymore, I just follow here.  But again, I ask...WTF?!

 

This is why I'm curious about the 6-month no visitors rule.  Isn't that kind of like buying a new puppy and then leaving it alone while you go off to work all day?  He's going to come home to see Jinge staring out the window, listening for his car in the driveway, and then climbing straight up him as soon as he walks in the door.  She may even piddle a bit in excitement.  I would think the novelty of having a worshipful child-bride might wear off pretty quick.  Here's hoping Jer is using the 6 months to help Jinge get a job, or enroll in a photography class, or helping her meet new people.  And I can't blame him one bit for not wanting 17 people and 79 pieces of luggage to end up in his house at any given moment.

I was picturing Jinger happily playing a traditional preacher's wife role. Still, she'll need to learn a great deal. Many of them have also been to seminary learning Christian education or music. 

[trimthatfat]

It's refreshing to see a couple on this show who actually has chemistry. Jinger and Jeremy actually looked really cute and the level of affection was very normal. As far as the the two beds in the hotel room looking like they might have slept separately, it's possible.  A lot of courting couple don't consummate their marriage on the night of the ceremony. Heck, I know married couples who didn't sleep together on the wedding night because they hit the pillow as soon as they could.

I thought the chef was being snarky and sarcastic. She smirked a few times after telling them to knock it off and she kept poking fun at Jeremy about the whole "shrimp on the barbie" saying.

I think the six-month rule was a fantastic idea and I don't care who came up with it. Jinger has spent nearly every day of her life with her family - she is more than allowed to enjoy the first six months of her marriage sans her parents, 18 siblings, and nieces/nephews. I remember Alyssa Bates being very firm with her family about visiting after she moved. I think only her parents were allowed to visit when she had her 1st baby and they didn't stay long. Good for Jinger and/or Jeremy for putting some boundaries in place. They need to actually get to know each other and they should do that minus regular visits from her bored family.

[ginger90]

I liked the honeymoon part. I can however do without hearing the word incredible in the near future. The scene of the two of them in the car with Jeremy driving was funny.

Did Austin say something that suggested he had asked to court Joy previously, and Jim Bob said to wait? I can't remember the exact words, but that's what I came away with.

[AnnieBeez]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

So true. I have never once felt in real life the way I felt watching Jinger pack up that hotel room. Because I have never thought of anyone else's activities on their wedding night. I can't imagine how Jinger felt with this camera crew she has known for years knowing that her virginity was erased that evening, in that bed(s).

I think that it was several days after the wedding if that makes you feel any better. I'd have to go back and watch to find out how many, but I'm pretty sure they didn't leave for Australia the day after the wedding.

[Sew Sumi]

Just to clear up something in a prior post, JinJer didn't leave immediately for Oz. They remained in the States for about three days before leaving, pretty much mimicking what Jessa and Ben did (during which time Kissgate erupted). I'm actually kind of glad JinJer don't have social media beyond the website, so we don't have to witness them putting their feet in deep doo doo at least once a week like Jinger's married siblings/spouses. 

edit: JINX! with @MischaMouse :D

Edited March 4, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Adeejay]

I have a feeling the six months rule was Jeremy's idea.  I can't help but believe Jessa's decision to turn his office into a guest room made him nervous.  I don't blame him for not wanting the Duggars in his home on a rotating basis.  However, I hope Jinger is allowed to visit Arkansas as much as her heart desires.

[Sew Sumi]

Since we know Jeremy was in CA to film that dreck with Ray Comfort, did Jinger accompany him, or did she take the opportunity to go home? I'd guess the former. And I bet Ben tagged along so he could hit up Compton spitting some Christian rap bars. 

[AnnaBaptist]

On 3/2/2017 at 6:12 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

I am Pippi Longstocking if you say it fast it's funny! She actually had something like 9 names. I bet your kitty girl is a tortie or a calico.

Totally OT, but her name was Pippilotta Delicatessa Windowshade Mackerelmint Ephraim's Daughter Longstocking. Don't ask me why I remember this 45+ years later.

[Arwen Evenstar]

32 minutes ago, AnnaBaptist said:

Totally OT, but her name was Pippilotta Delicatessa Windowshade Mackerelmint Ephraim's Daughter Longstocking. Don't ask me why I remember this 45+ years later.

LOL...I remember her name being very long. If I'd had the book, I would have memorized it, because I'm weird like that. I think my niece who is bookish would love the story.

Pippi is described in Wikipedia:"Pippi is portrayed as being a friendly and kind girl, but one with no "proper" manners and having no training or experience in how to behave in normal society, that is, any society..." other than the TTH. Coincidence? Except Pippi is a badass who can take care of herself!..Duggars...nope.

[Absolom]

Jeremy was in California to attend a church pastor conference here.  It's called the Shepherd's Conference.   The church is in Sun Valley which is out beyond Burbank. 

[Sew Sumi]

I posted the interview with Banana Man in the Duggalo thread a couple of days ago. :)

[sATL]

Stop the presses !  

If PEOPLE & Yahoo are reliable sources - Joy and Austin are engaged !   (link)

Edited March 4, 2017 by sATL

[Christina87]

20 hours ago, trimthatfat said:

It's refreshing to see a couple on this show who actually has chemistry. Jinger and Jeremy actually looked really cute and the level of affection was very normal. As far as the the two beds in the hotel room looking like they might have slept separately, it's possible.  A lot of courting couple don't consummate their marriage on the night of the ceremony. Heck, I know married couples who didn't sleep together on the wedding night because they hit the pillow as soon as they could.

I thought the chef was being snarky and sarcastic. She smirked a few times after telling them to knock it off and she kept poking fun at Jeremy about the whole "shrimp on the barbie" saying.

I think the six-month rule was a fantastic idea and I don't care who came up with it. Jinger has spent nearly every day of her life with her family - she is more than allowed to enjoy the first six months of her marriage sans her parents, 18 siblings, and nieces/nephews. I remember Alyssa Bates being very firm with her family about visiting after she moved. I think only her parents were allowed to visit when she had her 1st baby and they didn't stay long. Good for Jinger and/or Jeremy for putting some boundaries in place. They need to actually get to know each other and they should do that minus regular visits from her bored family.

After Jinger's embarrassing "I can't wait to...ummmmmmm..." right after the wedding, I'd be surprised if she wasn't all over him! ?

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

After Jinger's embarrassing "I can't wait to...ummmmmmm..." right after the wedding, I'd be surprised if she wasn't all over him! ?

Feel sorry for those in the neighboring rooms having to listen to some high pitched helium squealing of Baaaaaaaabe! all night long.

[Marigold]

For people who claim to be so MODEST they certainly have everyone talking about SEX 24/7.

JinJer didn't do "it' before marriage but they certainly got my mind going to that place.  Isn't that the opposite of MODEST?

And it was in poor taste to show their hotel room with the beds messed up.  That was so obvious that they were taking the viewer to the "it all happened here" place in your mind. I'm surprised Jeremy let them film that.  I would've been embarrassed. Jinger has no sense about privacy and filming but Jeremy should absolutely know better.  He is a big fame whore too!  A woman's sex life should be private.   Jim Bob sold it to TLC. Apparently Jeremy is OK with that too.  

I actually felt it exploited Jinger. 

[louannems]

I agree.  I can't believe they didn't throw the blankets up over those rumpled, sex-tumbled sheets. I'm surprised the camera didn't pan over to show us the virgin blood stain!

[Westiepeach]

I think its horrible they even showed the hotel room. Sheesh. 

[Marigold]

Just now, Westiepeach said:

I think its horrible they even showed the hotel room. Sheesh. 

Right?

Does Jinger even understand how "dirty" that was?   Jeremy didn't realize?  Gimme a break.  Jeremy has been around the block...he knew how that looked with the beds all romped around in and unmade.  The entire scene was unnecessary to the plot.  It was just some pervy little detail they added in there and Jeremy was so fine with it. 

Or just how inappropriate it is? I don't like people in my bedroom...I feel it's my private space with my husband. 

Oh look, there is the bed that Jinger lost her virginity in.  GROSS.  hello Jeremy?  Yeaaah, Jeremy is a real winner. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

15 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Oh look, there is the bed that Jinger lost her virginity in.  GROSS.  hello Jeremy?  Yeaaah, Jeremy is a real winner. 

Bbbbbbbbuuuuutttt! They're married now!

For all the big deal they make about purity, let's just wave the bloody sheet about, shall we? We all know what happened, but still, it's private.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

I agree.  I can't believe they didn't throw the blankets up over those rumpled, sex-tumbled sheets. I'm surprised the camera didn't pan over to show us the virgin blood stain!

Well, they'd been there for three days, so I assume her "bloody sheets" were safely tucked into another hotel room. 

[doodlebug]

13 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well, they'd been there for three days, so I assume her "bloody sheets" were safely tucked into another hotel room. 

I suspect she packed them to take home for Michelle to inspect to confirm she was 'joyfully available'.  Then, Jinger can start a scrapbook with the bloody sheet as the first page and her first positive pee stick as the second. On their anniversaries, Jing and Jer, can look through it and reminisce.  After all, in Duggarland, this is Jinger's whole reason for existing.

Edited March 5, 2017 by doodlebug
I didn't misspell Jinger correctly

[Christina87]

If they weren't so explicit about what they did and didn't do at different stages of their relationship, I don't think we would have many thoughts about it. I knew several people who were Christian and wanted to wait until their wedding day to have sex, but left the rest of the details out. They could have been anywhere on the spectrum from the duggars to engaging in oral sex every day! I think if the duggars simply said, "we're saving sex for the marriage," people would think about the details a lot less, because they would be inviting privacy with the lack of details they provide us. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

If they weren't so explicit about what they did and didn't do at different stages of their relationship, I don't think we would have many thoughts about it. I knew several people who were Christian and wanted to wait until their wedding day to have sex, but left the rest of the details out. They could have been anywhere on the spectrum from the duggars to engaging in oral sex every day! I think if the duggars simply said, "we're saving sex for the marriage," people would think about the details a lot less, because they would be inviting privacy with the lack of details they provide us. 

Bbbbbbbbbbuttttttttttt they've got to remind us all that their purity standards are the purest purity rules ever!

They think they invented all of this, but in many parts of the world, it's what everyone does. Among Orthodox Jews, for instance, it's  normally done no other way, and what's expected of everyone.

[ilovetrashtv]

Sooo was this the finale?? Only 8 episodes this season?