S03.E14: Attack on Central City

[Trini]

Quote

THE EPIC CONCLUSION TO THE TWO-PART BATTLE WITH GRODD -
When Grodd (voiced by David Sobolov) and his army of gorillas bring the battle to Earth-1, The Flash and team must find a way to stop them before they destroy Central City. Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) returns to join the fight. Meanwhile, Jesse Quick (guest star Violett Beane) decides she wants to stay with Wally on Earth-1.

Dermott Downs directed the episode with story by Todd Helbing and teleplay by Benjamin Raab & Deric A. Hughes

Promo:

[phoenics]

Well I want to comment on the episode overall, but I'm still shocked and happy that Barry proposed.  And low key jealous.  That was a very romantic proposal.  Wow.

[Lantern7]

Good episode. We didn't get Cavanaugh-on-Cavanaugh violence. Huckster might as well wear a sandwich board with "PLEASE THROTTLE ME TO WITHIN AN INCH OF MY LIFE" on it.

Hoping Jesse lives by the end of the season. I'm good with her and Wally being a thing, but I know that the show loves some manpain.

Cisco needs a dating service. Between Lisa, Kendra (she counts, dammit) and Gypsy, the boy cannot win. Also, his brother is still dead, but he seems to be over that.

I like Plan B: Bring in Solovar to take down Grodd. I'm sure the team had a Plan C, but bringing in another telepathic gorilla? Sure, why not? Besides, with LoT taking the week off, we have to get our batshit insanity from somewhere.

[bettername2come]

I am shocked that they actually had him propose this early. I thought it would happen, but I figured later in the season. That was a good proposal, though, loved the story about the great-grandparents. Like if Barry wants to brag to Oliver and Diggle about how he's better at proposing than them, he is well within his rights to. Beautiful ring. And who's gonna write the fanfic about the moment Barry asked Joe for the ring back? I need to read it now.

I like Gypsy. She's not evil. She makes Cisco look tall. She helped save the day. She can stay. And, holy crap, did they give Cisco another power? So, he's also an empath now? I'm concerned he's gonna go evil if they keep making him so powerful. It's a cliche for a reason.

HR was awful with implying he was dying. I mean, hilarious and in character, but still.

Liked the Gorilla stuff. Joe as Grodd made me think of that clip in the bloopers where he quotes Mufasa. Jesse L. Martin should voice Disney movies.

Wally and Jesse are cute, but, Wally, I swear if you fuck up Barry's proposal by seeing Savitar...

[thuganomics85]

Holy crap!  Jesse L. Martin was actually pretty terrifying as a Gorilla Grodd-controled Joe!  Makes me want to see him play more villainish roles.  Hey, I'm sure there is an Evil Joe out there somewhere on one of those Earths!

Harry, don't go!  I loved him and all of his dickish glory.  He would pretend that he was dying, in order to guilt Wally into telling Jesse to go back to Earth 2.  Glad Jesse totally saw through it and gave him an earful.  And then his hatred/annoyance with H.R. was hilarious!  And verbally whacking Barry upside the head, when he wanting to go all Oliver Queen on Grodd, with the killing stuff.  And, of course, the brief scenes between him and Cisco.  Harry and Cisco are still one of my favorite duos!

Not much Gorilla action as I hoped, but they still did a pretty good job with what they could work with.  I figured Solovar was going to save the day, but watching him just beat the absolute crap out of Grodd was great.  Never fuck with a gorilla voiced by Keith David!

Glad Gypsy was just mind-controlled and not evil, even if it still took Cisco a bit to convince her to actually help.  He really does tend to fall for bad girls though.  Hey, whatever works, I guess.  I am digging the chemistry, and Jessica Camacho sure is gorgeous.

Speaking of which, yay, to Jesse sticking around more Violett Beane rocking the Jesse Quick outfit!

Kind of weird that Julian was out of town during all of this.  Hearing that he was dealing with "family issues" still makes me hope that we will meet his dad and he will be played by Jason Issacs.

Barry proposes to Iris!  If she accepts, please, for the love of all things good, do not follow in the footsteps of your mancrush, Oliver, and completely tank it in spectacular fashion!  At least you don't have any secret bastard children.... at least I don't think so.

Wally sees Savitar.  Uh oh!

[catrice2]

Lovely proposal scene...why do I think she says no? I think Iris will feel like he is only proposing because he thinks she is dying.  I do like the way they are maturing the couple....they heard me!! 

Was afraid for Joe....still am.

I am still not liking Wally....and although I'm sick of Wells in any form, I actually prefer HR until he says Francisco. 

Still hate when Cisco tries to be a "man." Grow him up all the time or just forget about it. 

No Julian....o.k. I don't enjoy him as much as the rest of you....so.....

Grodd does nothing for me. 

Show seemed slow.  

How old are Jesse and Wally supposed to be?  They were VERY comfortable being home alone while Barry was having a a panic attack. 

Love, Love the set for Iris and Barry's apartment. 

[bmoore4026]

Evil monkey faw down, go boom, hurt his widdle behind.

[Lady Calypso]

I guess I'm pessimistic, but either Iris is turning down the proposal, or she really is a goner at the end of the season (only to return next season, of course). Nobody can stay happy on this show, or any of these shows.

For 6:30am in the opening scene, it sure was bright. Sometimes, I'd rather they had 6:30 as just dark. It makes more sense. But the Barry/Iris scenes were so good. They've finally done the romance on this show well, though. It's taken this long, but they've finally put effort into it. 

Yep, I've missed Harry. Having him and HR in scenes just solidify that for me. Even if HR has slightly grown on me, I still vastly prefer Harry. Even with him lying to Wally about his impending death, he's still so much more interesting to watch. Also, it led to the nickname of "Deadman" and I love that Cisco used it right after Jesse. Harry just has good scenes with Cisco, Barry, and even Caitlin, while HR is just kind of there.

I really love Jesse so I hope she survives. 

I do like how Grodd was taken down. 

[benteen]

Well, so much for the attack on Central City.  That was an anti-climatic as the Superman/Doomsday "fight" at the end of Season 8 of Smallville.  It's totally understandable given that they probably blew a lot of their FX budget with the arena scene last year.  Still, most harmless invasion ever for Central City.  I know they tried to use nukes (which has become big in the Arrowverse recently and even on Supergirl this past week).

Still, a fun episode and I liked them having to work together and figure out a way to stop Grodd.  Though I'm sure giving him to Argus is a horrible idea and they've set up a potential Grodd/Killer Shark team-up.

I thought it was too early for Barry to propose but I thought the same thing with Oliver too.

Any version of Wells is awesome.

Liked Cisco and Gypsy.

Edited March 1, 2017 by benteen

[ruby24]

I'm completely paranoid about Barry proposing this early. I think they wanted it to be a big surprise moment (and they got that, because I don't think anyone was expecting it to come out of nowhere like that), but...I don't know. It feels too soon. Maybe Iris will say no?

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, benteen said:

Well, so much for the attack on Gorilla City.  That was an anti-climatic as the Superman/Doomsday "fight" at the end of Season 8 of Smallville.  It's totally understandable given that they probably blew a lot of their FX budget with the arena scene last year.  

I think you mean Central City. Attack on Gorilla City was las week.

And I don't recall an arena scene last year. Do you mean the arena from last week's episode?

I still don't understand, when they have the CGI gorillas, why they can't make their fucking lips MOVE when they're talking! It takes me out of the moment and reminds me of the babies in Look Who's Talking!?

Goliath was SO wasted!!!

I really don't like this show's take on Grodd. I rather love his arrogant irreverence from the DCAU.

That proposal was all kinds of wonderful, though all those candles did give me pause.

I really do prefer Harry over HR. Sigh.

I do hope Iris says yes.

Oh joy. Megatron Savitar is back.

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, benteen said:

I thought it was too early for Barry to propose but I thought the same thing with Oliver too.

At least in this case, it kind of makes sense. He knows Iris' death could be coming up, so part of it feels like it's about his panicking about it happening soon. I also think it's too early (Oliver/Felicity were at least in a relationship for nine+ months) but I just see this as a plot device for future drama, and I don't see the engagement lasting into next season, nor do I see a wedding happening this early. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Y'all are such Debbie Downers!!!????

I'm hoping Iris says yes, though I don't expect to see a marriage this season.  Nor do I think it's too soon. Barry has always been in love with her. Iris realized her feelings for Barry toward the end of the first season, but was going to stay with Eddie because well, I'm not sure. BUT. Just because they haven't been a couple for x months doesn't mean it's too soon. Is there a predetermined number of months or years they should be dating before it's "the right time" to propose?

I'm going to enjoy this until the writers FUCK IT UP.  Because that's how they roll.

I didn't notice or see any panic in Barry's proposal-just saw that he realized hey! How about thinking about their future together and living it, instead of worrying about what might happen?

But that's just me.

[catrice2]

Well this show consistently finds some way to keep Barry and Iris apart....erasing memories, going to the past, going to the future, boring fiance, Patty!!, Joe angst, etc. No way they are going to let them be together without major drama. 

[legaleagle53]

26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I still don't understand, when they have the CGI gorillas, why they can't make their fucking lips MOVE when they're talking! It takes me out of the moment and reminds me of the babies in Look Who's Talking!?

They're telepaths.  Telepaths don't need to move their lips when they're "talking" because they "talk" mentally, not vocally.

[VCRTracking]

I KNEW Harry was lying to Wally about "dying"! Glad Jessie knew right away what her dad was up too.

Good on Wally for keeping his identity secret in public by calling his dad "Joe" and "Detective Joe West".

Loved the interaction between the two Wells. Tom Cavanagh rules.

I didn't audibly "squee" when Barry proposed but I did in my head.

Finally, Candice Patton rocks the HELL out of a pencil skirt. Damn.

Edited March 1, 2017 by VCRTracking

[HunterHunted]

So I gather that George Lucas and his frequent collaborator Phil Gasmer never changed the name from Luke Starkiller to Luke Skywalker on Earth 19.

I live for HR annoying the living daylights out of Harry.

Was Gypsy talking to a scarlet speedster on Earth 19?

I think the show has forgotten that Hartley Rathaway is a good guy meta thanks to Barry's time traveling.

Edited March 1, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Cthulhudrew]

So Cisco can't hack a nuke, but Felicity can? I think something got lost between the Arrow writer's room and the Flash writer's room.

(Flash got it right, at least as far as I know. But Arrow did it first, so... awkwaaard.)

Also, it occurs to me that Wells has still never been held accountable for killing the Turtle.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Cthulhudrew

[Lantern7]

How funny would it be if next season mirrors the one from Seinfeld where George got engaged to Susan, and he kept trying to squirm his way out of it? "I love her, but I thought for sure she'd be dead by now!" Season Five? "What did you tell Joe?" "That I had an upscale stable upstate. What did you tell him?" "I told him ya didn't. And then I laughed and I laughed."

28 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

So I gather that George Lucas and his frequent collaborator Phil Gasmer never changed the name from Luke Starkiller to Luke Skywalker on Earth 19.

Was Gypsy talking to a scarlet speedster on Earth 19?

I think the show has forgotten that Hartley Rathaway is a good guy meta thanks to Barry's time traveling.

1. And he didn't get his life fucked with by errant schmuck time travellers.

2. From what I read on another forum, he's the Accelerated Man.

3. Hartley is probably chilling with Sin, Kendra, and whatever Kendra's eternal love calls himself.

[Artsda]

Barry and Iris just got together, then just moved in together and now already are engaged? It's too fast, I feel like it's setting it up for a big drop.

[Whodunnit]

Plus we know how her last engagement turned out. Iris, beware of the plot device...

I get why Barry never gets any lasting injuries, but shouldn't Grodd have broken his c6 vertebrae or something when he fell from that very tall building?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Whodunnit

[david gideon]

Joe puts a gun to his head, three speedsters are standing in front of him, and nobody grabs the gun? They wait for him to pull the trigger? I didn't get that.

[TDT]

And the role of Gorilla Grodd is being played by..Winston from Overwatch!  LOL seriously i was expecting Tracer,Reinhardt or perhaps maybe Reaper to show up

[Trini]

16 hours ago, benteen said:

they've set up a potential Grodd/Killer Shark team-up.

 

And Black Siren is at ARGUS too. I'm totally here for this teamup! They really should have more villains teaming up against the Flash; it would be a challenge since Team Flash is somewhat (to put it mildly) overpowered. Also  the villains-of-the-week have been really subpar this season.

 

13 hours ago, david gideon said:

Joe puts a gun to his head, three speedsters are standing in front of him, and nobody grabs the gun? They wait for him to pull the trigger? I didn't get that.

Speedsters catch bullets, not guns, duuhhh! Nah, I'm kidding, I completely agree.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Trini

[Velocity23]

4 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

So Cisco can't hack a nuke, but Felicity can? I think something got lost between the Arrow writer's room and the Flash writer's room.

(Flash got it right, at least as far as I know. But Arrow did it first, so... awkwaaard.)

Also, it occurs to me that Wells has still never been held accountable for killing the Turtle.

I thought Cisco was an inventor more than a hacker on the level of Felicity? Also on Arrow Felicity have the help of 2 additional hackers. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Dear Show,

Thank you for keeping Iris's ass in the shot while Barry was proposing because DAYUM.

Sincerely,
EB

Barry is also welcome to come over to my house and make breakfast any morning (although I agree with Iris - 6:30am is a bit early). Pancakes, waffles, French toast, bacon, and sausage? Hell yeah! I might have to request some hash browns or other potato product but I totally approve of Barry's menu (especially if he had whipped cream, strawberries, and chocolate sauce for the waffles). Mmmmm.

My guess is that Iris will say yes to the proposal but tell Barry that they can't get married until after the big Death Day passes because she doesn't want to rush a wedding because of what is supposed to happen.

I initially disliked HR because he seemed a poor substitute for Harrison, but I really enjoyed him this week. First of all, I love how enthusiastic he was about Friends Day. Despite all the joking, I thought it was very sweet of him to hand make all of those cards and decorate the lab. And he was useful this week with the haircut idea! Plus, as Jessie pointed out, HR is kind and thoughtful. I mean, yes, he's also kind of a dumbass most of the time, but he reminds me of a big happy puppy who just wants to lick everyone's faces. He gets extra points for being very tolerant and positive. There aren't many people who would respond to having someone spit their toothpaste into their coffee by cheerfully saying, "See you at the party!"

As much as I like Harrison (and I was so excited to have him around for another episode!), I really enjoyed how annoyed he was with HR.  Harrison obviously sees it as a huge insult that the other versions of himself aren't all as brilliant, kind of like having a dumb distant cousin who he thinks is making the family look bad by his very existence. HR took being called a moron multiple times very well, which makes me like him more (probably because I know I would get offended if that happened to me, so I admire that HR doesn't take it personally at all and is instead just fascinated by all the differences between them).

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

For 6:30am in the opening scene, it sure was bright. Sometimes, I'd rather they had 6:30 as just dark. It makes more sense. But the Barry/Iris scenes were so good. They've finally done the romance on this show well, though. It's taken this long, but they've finally put effort into it.

I would totally buy it being light at 6:30am if it were the middle of summer, but we know it's still before D Day (which is in May) so it makes no sense.

Edited March 1, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[waving feather]

Man, I thought I missed Harry but this episode really made me appreciate HR. I love how he unabashedly enjoy people and things. Congrats, HR, you have won me over! He is the team mascot. If they write him with more layers, I may even enjoy him more than Harry.

Something is missing for me this season and I think it is Barry's character. I haven't been enjoying the titular character like I did in season 1 and 2. They are also doing more tell, rather than show what a hero Barry is. This episode alone, we have multiple characters reminding Barry what a snowflake he is. Barry is a nice guy, but I wouldn't call him the epitome of "goodness". He did selfishly created Flashpoint and affected many people's lives in the process. Not that I want them to continue to beat him up over it, but they need to quit pretending Barry is more selfless and merciful than people like Iris, Cisco and Caitlyn. And Barry is hardly the only superhero they have on the team, so it will be a team decision, anyway. Not a "burden" he needs to bear alone, geez.

The S.T.A.R. Labs team spend so much time and effort to train and enhance the Speedsters, but they aren't focusing much on boosting Cisco's. Just for my sake, I wish they would, because it is way more interesting (he can read people's emotions now) than running or vibrating really fast. Alas, the show is called the Flash, so probably not. But then they should have kept Barry as the special snowflake and not give many people speed powers. When Barry told Jesse and Wally to stay behind to look after the team, I was like why? One of Jesse or Wally could still have gone with him to help out and one stay behind to help Team S.T.A.R. Labs. Things like that rang false to me.

The plot this episode was just OK. So much unnecessary built up but very little Attack on Central City. And for apes, I thought Grodd's army would be charging in running, not strolling along the street like they have all the time in the world.

Edited March 1, 2017 by waving feather

[RedVitC]

Just dropping in to say I was stunned that Barry proposed. Stunned. But so, so happy. I can't believe they cut away when they did. What will her answer be??!!? Say yes Iris! 

I have thoughts about the rest of the episode too, but I'll post about them later.

[maxineofarc]

HARRY DON'T GO! Still loving the multiple Wellses, but Harry's easy chemistry with Cisco brought out the best in both of them, and given that I've (um, maybe repeatedly) expressed my dissatisfaction with the dialing back of Cisco this season, that was really fun to see. Speaking of Cisco and his sad love donut, either get this guy a real love interest or don't. Having somebody mack on him and then run off a couple of times a season is getting as old for me as it is for him.

Continuity nitpick: I thought Julian was estranged from his family, what with changing his name and fleeing the country to avoid questioning on the mass death he indirectly caused, so what "family business" could he possibly have in England?

I will keep my mouth shut on my feelings about Barry and Iris: A Love For All Time.

[DavidJSnyder]

I know they don't want to deal with two Harrisons on a regular basis, but isn't the reason that Harry moved back to Earth 2 in the first place because Jessie wanted to go back?  Am I remembering that wrong?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Nitpick: the acronym for transcranial magnetic stimulation is TMS (not TCM).

I laughed when Iris was going on and on about how Barry's humanity is what makes him a hero and why everyone looks up to him. So everyone else has an enemies list and is secretly murdering them one by one in their spare time while admiring Barry's amazing self-restraint? Good to know.

[Aeryn13]

Why did the headline read "city still recovering from Gorilla attack"? Any random meta bank robber has caused more destruction than this. What was there to truly recover from? Malcolm Merlyn devastated a city, Grodd and several hundred gorillas sure didn`t.

So, did Solovar mope in a corner in Gorilla city somewhere? And why did it take Gypsy to get him?

I really didn`t like the ultra-heavy-handed "don`t kill" preaching. Sure, it shouldn`t be the first solution but I can`t stand the moralistic hand-wringing and letting the worst of the worst get away over and over again and then whine when they kill more people afterwards. At least let Solovar finish the job if you can`t do it. Next time Grodd predictably shows up to wreak havoc, I will thank the naive stupidity of the Flash team. Urgh.

[cambridgeguy]

One day they'll have to explain why Jesse moving to Earth-1 is something bigger than a kid moving out of the house for the first time.  It's one thing if travel between dimensions is difficult but it looks like it's easier and faster than most people's commute to work.  The team likes Harry so he can pop over whenever he wants and Jesse has a larger support network for her superheroics on Earth 1 than she does at home.

I really hope the Earth-19 speedster gets more than a cameo soon.  My (non-spoilered) thought is that all of the good speedsters will have to team up to beat Savitar so let's add another one to the mix. 

[johntfs]

14 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

So Cisco can't hack a nuke, but Felicity can? I think something got lost between the Arrow writer's room and the Flash writer's room.

Felicity is the best hacker in the multiverse, Cisco is not.  He's good, but not the best.  There's some things she can do that he cannot.

[benteen]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Why did the headline read "city still recovering from Gorilla attack"? Any random meta bank robber has caused more destruction than this. What was there to truly recover from? Malcolm Merlyn devastated a city, Grodd and several hundred gorillas sure didn`t.

So, did Solovar mope in a corner in Gorilla city somewhere? And why did it take Gypsy to get him?

I really didn`t like the ultra-heavy-handed "don`t kill" preaching. Sure, it shouldn`t be the first solution but I can`t stand the moralistic hand-wringing and letting the worst of the worst get away over and over again and then whine when they kill more people afterwards. At least let Solovar finish the job if you can`t do it. Next time Grodd predictably shows up to wreak havoc, I will thank the naive stupidity of the Flash team. Urgh.

Totally agree.  When Grodd escapes and killw more people (which he will) will Barry still say it was worth it?

Quote

Not that I want them to continue to beat him up over it, but they need to quit pretending Barry is more selfless and merciful than people like Iris, Cisco and Caitlyn.

Once again, totally agree.  Barry has been anything but a selfless hero.  He has been the cause of all Central City's problems since the end of Season 1 because of his selfishness and it's even affected people outside of the city like Diggle and Lyra.

I also want to see more of Earth-19 Flash aka Accelerated Man.  I really like what the multiverse opens up for this show.

Edited March 1, 2017 by benteen

[tennisgurl]

Plus, Cisco is more of a engineer/inventor type than a hacker, even though he's certainly really good at it. Not Felicity good, but impressive. Its just not his specialty like it is hers. And, hey, Cisco and his bad girl thing is acknowledged! I liked him and Lisa flirting, but I like Gypsy too, so I'm ok with her coming back from time to time to be Cisco's long distance girlfriend.

Kind of a lame gorilla showdown, after all this buildup. We were promised a gorilla attack, not a minor gorilla skirmish! Although, I will say, bringing back Solovar to kick Groods ass was a pretty good idea, so they had that going. I do wonder what people were thinking in all the buildings surrounding the gorilla army. "Anything going on tonight honey?" "Oh, looks like the Flash is facing off against a bunch of giant armed gorillas. So not much".

I did think it was a good episode though, even if the climax was lame. The character interactions were fun, especially with Harry and HR, and I like Wally and Jessie, and I'm glad it looks like she sticking around. I wish Harry could stay though. I like HR, but oh my GOD I miss Harry! I just love his snarky ass so much, and his disdain for HR was both mean and hilarious. I also loved how Jessie knew immediately that her dad was making up his "sickness". Oh Harry.

I don't know why, but I laughed so hard when HR mentioned that an alarm when go off if the nuke was activated, and it immediately went off, and Barry was just like "Ugggg, now I have to deal with this shit". It wasn't even panic, it was more like he just remembered he had a parking ticket he had to pay off. I also thought the engagement scene was super adorable. Normally I would say that they're moving too fast, but they have known each other forever, and they are on kind of a time clock here. Things are way more emotional now that Iris might die, so I can get behind them wanting them to move quickly.

[immortalfrieza]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I really didn`t like the ultra-heavy-handed "don`t kill" preaching. Sure, it shouldn`t be the first solution but I can`t stand the moralistic hand-wringing and letting the worst of the worst get away over and over again and then whine when they kill more people afterwards. At least let Solovar finish the job if you can`t do it. Next time Grodd predictably shows up to wreak havoc, I will thank the naive stupidity of the Flash team. Urgh.

As always, it's merely an excuse to avoid killing the villain so the writers can use them again later. As usual with villains there is absolutely no moral or logical justification not to kill Grodd, especially when it comes to interfering with the internal matters of a kingdom to prevent it. Solovar killing Grodd completely washes the hands of Flash of any responsibility in Grodd's death even if he was the one who arranged for Solovar to be brought there in the first place (speaking of which, Grodd was an idiot for not killing Solovar when he had the chance and just locking him away somewhere instead).

Echoing that they should either get Cisco an actual love interest or just not bother.

Apparently Grodd was correct that the military would do absolutely nothing to stop him and it would just be Flash and Co in his way, go figure.

[tennisgurl]

35 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

As always, it's merely an excuse to avoid killing the villain so the writers can use them again later.

Big huge word. The whole "we don't kill" thing is used both to make the heroes look good, and, more importantly, to make sure the villains can come back. Granted, that is kind of a staple of superhero stories, but they need to come up with a better reason to not kill a super dangerous murderous telepathic gorilla who almost nuked a city than "because its bad". Also, I'm pretty positive Barry has killed bad guys before. Several times I think. He does usually try to give people a chance to surrender, but people do die, sometimes directly because of his actions, when there were probably other ways to deal with them if they really thought on it, and no one really seems to angst about that, even when they were somewhat sympathetic (like the guy trying to kill Evil Harry for his friends dying, or the teenager who was rapidly aging). And he trapped that one meta in a mirror, and that might be worse than dying, depending on how he feels. I'm not saying he was wrong, I'm just saying he cant go on about how he never kills when he totally has killed. And if he's going to kill someone, evil murderous telepathic gorilla is a good target. The only reason he didn't tell him, or let Solovar kill him, is so that he can come back and kill more people. The high road is going to look great when your cleaning up the dead bodies Barry! Not that he should run around killing people as the first option,, like Oliver at the start of Arrow, but its still an option is situations like this. It just makes the heroes look dumb and the writing sloppy.

[waving feather]

All of the above and besides, Barry literally was going to fight a war with the Gorillas before Solovar came into the picture. People get killed during war, Barry. It is inevitable.

It was so stupid of Team Flash to keep Grodd on Earth-1. I don't see what's morally wrong with letting Solovar bring Grodd back to Earth-2 to face justice no matter what it may have been. And Solovar has all the rights after Grodd basically carried out an insurgent.

At this point, I just want Cisco to end up with a nice girl (ahem Caitlyn) who doesn't toy with his feelings.

[RedVitC]

Where to begin. In season 1 Barry gave Iris a replica of her mother’s wedding band, and now he’s proposing with the ring that probably belonged to his own mother (his great-grandfather proposed with this ring to his great-grandmother. The ring his own father probably proposed to his mother with.) Him proposing to Iris with this ring, giving her this ring, is so significant. And as I saw someone else point out online, it’s probably his mom or dad that told him the story about his great-grandfather and great-grandmother in the first place.

(It kind of reminds me of that part in episode 2.21 where Speedforce Nora Allen tells him to run, and in a way to run to Iris and leave the past behind. )

And the story was so poignant. We’ve seen him give so many wedding vow type speeches already, I thought it was a good decision to have him talk about his great-grandparents. His great-grandfather wore this ring around his neck while fighting in the war until he could get home to the woman he loved and propose to her. That fits so well with Barry and Iris’ we will always find each other thing. Plus it might even be foreshadowing to later this season. Maybe Barry sacrifices himself and gets lost in the Speed Force and has to fight his way back (to Iris).

I promise I have thoughts about the rest of the episode, but my brain is not letting me write them down yet because my mind keeps going back to the proposal.

[Chyromaniac]

18 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

So I gather that George Lucas and his frequent collaborator Phil Gasmer never changed the name from Luke Starkiller to Luke Skywalker on Earth 19.

Well duh - who else was William Katt supposed to play in "Journal of the Whills"?

[maxineofarc]

Who watches "Casablanca" and turns it off five minutes before the end?

[HunterHunted]

35 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

Who watches "Casablanca" and turns it off five minutes before the end?

Clearly Jessie because she's fixated on Earth 1 history. How do you watch almost all of Casablanca and wonder which war this is minutes before the end. Additionally, why does that matter to her? Do they not fiction on Earth 2? Or does their fiction not include wars? 

[Ottis]

I'll never get Grodd as a villain. He just makes me think of Charlton Heston. 

Harrison's "confession" of his illness was ridiculously obvious as a ploy. 

Couldn't the Speedsters have quickly searched around the city for Grodd in seconds or minutes? 

Enjoy marrying your sister, Barry. 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Enjoy marrying your sister, Barry. 

His foster sister.  There is no blood relationship between them.

[Grace19]

Okay, I ship Westallen and have always loved them, but I've never enjoyed them as much as I did this episode. The first scene between them was so natural, fun and sexy, it actually surprised me that Grant and Candice were that comfortable around each other.

Then the proposal made me feel some type of way, thats hands down the best westallen scene ever for me. The setting, the music, Grant, Candice, and finally the story Barry told were all great. I loved the story so much that I would watch a movie about it, I might have thought about Barry's grandparents more than necessary, lol. Well, kudos to the writers, director and actors, that was a beautiful scene.

[Grace19]

I never read any comicbook, but love comicbook movies and show, especially when they embrace the comicbook part, so I really enjoyed Grodd and Solover, their fight was over the top and entertaining.

What I did not enjoy was dumbing Barry down as always, their is no reason why Barry can't out run the female vibe's (forgot her name) blast, and why he couldn't stop Joe earlier.

I rolled my eyes so much whenever they talk about Barry's humanity in relation to killing Grodd. I kept saying, ' He's a freaking Gorilla' out loud.

I love Cisco and the female vibe.

Unpopular opinion, I love HR, though I will miss Harry, Tom is so sexy to me, I love every character played by him.

I miss Julian, I really fell in love with his character, his seriousness cracks me up every time.

Wally and Jessi are very cute, but I wish Jessi will go back to earth two, too much speedsters.

[zannej]

On 2/28/2017 at 8:52 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Holy crap!  Jesse L. Martin was actually pretty terrifying as a Gorilla Grodd-controled Joe!  Makes me want to see him play more villainish roles.  Hey, I'm sure there is an Evil Joe out there somewhere on one of those Earths!

Harry, don't go!  I loved him and all of his dickish glory.  He would pretend that he was dying, in order to guilt Wally into telling Jesse to go back to Earth 2.  Glad Jesse totally saw through it and gave him an earful.  And then his hatred/annoyance with H.R. was hilarious!  And verbally whacking Barry upside the head, when he wanting to go all Oliver Queen on Grodd, with the killing stuff.  And, of course, the brief scenes between him and Cisco.  Harry and Cisco are still one of my favorite duos!

Not much Gorilla action as I hoped, but they still did a pretty good job with what they could work with.  I figured Solovar was going to save the day, but watching him just beat the absolute crap out of Grodd was great.  Never fuck with a gorilla voiced by Keith David!

Glad Gypsy was just mind-controlled and not evil, even if it still took Cisco a bit to convince her to actually help.  He really does tend to fall for bad girls though.  Hey, whatever works, I guess.  I am digging the chemistry, and Jessica Camacho sure is gorgeous.

Speaking of which, yay, to Jesse sticking around more Violett Beane rocking the Jesse Quick outfit!

Kind of weird that Julian was out of town during all of this.  Hearing that he was dealing with "family issues" still makes me hope that we will meet his dad and he will be played by Jason Issacs.

Barry proposes to Iris!  If she accepts, please, for the love of all things good, do not follow in the footsteps of your mancrush, Oliver, and completely tank it in spectacular fashion!  At least you don't have any secret bastard children.... at least I don't think so.

Wally sees Savitar.  Uh oh!

I agree with many of these points and I absolutely LOVE the idea of Jason Isaacs playing Julian's father. I do have to wonder about the timing of Julian being "out of town" and Wally suddenly seeing Savitar though.

On 2/28/2017 at 9:17 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Evil monkey faw down, go boom, hurt his widdle behind.

LOL! No more monkeys jumping on the bed!

On 2/28/2017 at 9:39 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I guess I'm pessimistic, but either Iris is turning down the proposal, or she really is a goner at the end of the season (only to return next season, of course). Nobody can stay happy on this show, or any of these shows.

For 6:30am in the opening scene, it sure was bright. Sometimes, I'd rather they had 6:30 as just dark. It makes more sense. But the Barry/Iris scenes were so good. They've finally done the romance on this show well, though. It's taken this long, but they've finally put effort into it. 

Yep, I've missed Harry. Having him and HR in scenes just solidify that for me. Even if HR has slightly grown on me, I still vastly prefer Harry. Even with him lying to Wally about his impending death, he's still so much more interesting to watch. Also, it led to the nickname of "Deadman" and I love that Cisco used it right after Jesse. Harry just has good scenes with Cisco, Barry, and even Caitlin, while HR is just kind of there.

I really love Jesse so I hope she survives. 

I do like how Grodd was taken down. 

I liked the morning scene with Barry making breakfast. That was sweet. I did like the little line where Barry asked if she wanted some of "this" and she said yes and that she wanted the food too. The proposal was nice, but with these writers it makes me wonder what is going to happen to interfere. The writers can't seem to refrain from having some sort of ship-stall when it comes to Iris and Barry.

I halfway wonder if the "Deadman" nickname was foreshadowing. There is a DC character named Deadman.

The most I've liked HR is when he is interacting with Harry. It's too bad we can't clone Cavanagh and have two of him to do the scenes and make it easier. HR just takes it all in stride while Harry literally spits in his drink. LOL. The line about not being able to tell balls from lanterns when the lights go out really cracked me up. Although, I admit that one of the reasons that HR falls a little flat for me is that he seems a little too chipper in some ways. He doesn't have moments where everyone walks away and we see that he really does feel hurt or sad by things. Even when being faced with death (being taken back to his own earth and executed), he seemed a bit too blasé about it. I like that the other iterations will show one side to everyone and then we see little subtle things in the facial expression. There is just more nuance to the other characters.

I now kind-of want to see HR meeting the Wellsobard character somehow. I wonder what Wellsobard would have said to him (I know he would have thought he was a moron).

I hope they don't fridge Jesse as well.

On 2/28/2017 at 9:53 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean Central City. Attack on Gorilla City was last week.

And I don't recall an arena scene last year. Do you mean the arena from last week's episode?

I still don't understand, when they have the CGI gorillas, why they can't make their fucking lips MOVE when they're talking! It takes me out of the moment and reminds me of the babies in Look Who's Talking!?

Goliath was SO wasted!!!

I really don't like this show's take on Grodd. I rather love his arrogant irreverence from the DCAU.

That proposal was all kinds of wonderful, though all those candles did give me pause.

I really do prefer Harry over HR. Sigh.

I do hope Iris says yes.

Oh joy. Megatron Savitar is back.

I think they meant it as in it was filmed in 2016 but aired this year?

I think the lip-moving was already addressed with them being telepathic gorillas. Maybe with time they will develop Grodd's personality more.

I kept looking at all of those candles and thinking it was a fire hazard.

Yeah, Harry is far better than HR-- although the two of them together are entertaining.

On 2/28/2017 at 11:34 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

So Cisco can't hack a nuke, but Felicity can? I think something got lost between the Arrow writer's room and the Flash writer's room.

(Flash got it right, at least as far as I know. But Arrow did it first, so... awkwaaard.)

Also, it occurs to me that Wells has still never been held accountable for killing the Turtle.

My sister actually used to work on the programming for nukes. There was one time that the program told the nuke missile to return to home if it didn't hit it's target. That was some bad programming.

I highly doubt that a floppy disk would have enough space to hold the programming for a missile but I'm too lazy to go look it up.

Did Harry ever confess to the team that he killed Turtle? I think they just sort of assumed it and I don't know if Jesse told them. I really can't remember. They might not have proof of it and/or they might have passed it off as his desperation to save his daughter. I mean, Barry still admires Oliver and he has killed quite a few people. But, it does seem to be one of those tropes in comic books and on TV shows where the protagonists can kill someone and it's ok because they are the protagonists and their murdering pasts can be overlooked so long as they are the "good guys" now.

On 3/1/2017 at 0:18 AM, Whodunnit said:

Plus we know how her last engagement turned out. Iris, beware of the plot device...

I get why Barry never gets any lasting injuries, but shouldn't Grodd have broken his c6 vertebrae or something when he fell from that very tall building?

And shouldn't Solovar have broken his legs when he jumped down after him? He would have had less resistance on his way down and I think due to the angle of his drop he might have had higher terminal velocity than Grodd (who was on his back so there was more area and friction to slow him down). But somehow the gorillas are super tough as well as smart and telepathic.

On 3/1/2017 at 0:40 AM, david gideon said:

Joe puts a gun to his head, three speedsters are standing in front of him, and nobody grabs the gun? They wait for him to pull the trigger? I didn't get that.

I know! The moment he pointed the gun, Barry should have just snatched it out of his hand. He has the speed to do so. And then instead of catching the bullet, he just moved Joe? WTF?

It's one of the things that annoys me with this show where they conveniently forget how fast the speedsters are for plotforce. All three of them should have been fast enough to dodge the shields the gorillas used. They should have gotten some kind of rope or cord from somewhere and just ducked low and tied all their ankles together and made them fall or something. Barry alone is fast enough to have just run in and just yerked all of the shields away before the gorillas could blink.

19 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

HARRY DON'T GO! Still loving the multiple Wellses, but Harry's easy chemistry with Cisco brought out the best in both of them, and given that I've (um, maybe repeatedly) expressed my dissatisfaction with the dialing back of Cisco this season, that was really fun to see. Speaking of Cisco and his sad love donut, either get this guy a real love interest or don't. Having somebody mack on him and then run off a couple of times a season is getting as old for me as it is for him.

Continuity nitpick: I thought Julian was estranged from his family, what with changing his name and fleeing the country to avoid questioning on the mass death he indirectly caused, so what "family business" could he possibly have in England?

I will keep my mouth shut on my feelings about Barry and Iris: A Love For All Time.

I was sad that Harry was leaving. And we didn't get very much of Harry and Cisco this time around.

Yeah, I found the "family business" thing a bit odd. And it is convenient that he leaves and Wally sees Savitar. I wonder if somehow he got to Julian again.

19 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

I know they don't want to deal with two Harrisons on a regular basis, but isn't the reason that Harry moved back to Earth 2 in the first place because Jessie wanted to go back?  Am I remembering that wrong?

Yeah. I thought that was odd. Harry seemed like he wanted to stay on Earth 1. So, I don't understand why Harry didn't just decide to move there too-- other than the plotforce and not wanting to deal with making Cavanagh do two characters on a regular basis. Although, I would dearly love to see the two of them messing with one another frequently. I really like the contrast.

18 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Why did the headline read "city still recovering from Gorilla attack"? Any random meta bank robber has caused more destruction than this. What was there to truly recover from? Malcolm Merlyn devastated a city, Grodd and several hundred gorillas sure didn`t.

So, did Solovar mope in a corner in Gorilla city somewhere? And why did it take Gypsy to get him?

I really didn`t like the ultra-heavy-handed "don`t kill" preaching. Sure, it shouldn`t be the first solution but I can`t stand the moralistic hand-wringing and letting the worst of the worst get away over and over again and then whine when they kill more people afterwards. At least let Solovar finish the job if you can`t do it. Next time Grodd predictably shows up to wreak havoc, I will thank the naive stupidity of the Flash team. Urgh.

Maybe Barry was somewhat successful in minimizing the damage and it was lesser than it had been before?

The "don't kill" thing is another thing that annoys me in terms of the tv and comic book tropes. Characters who have killed before suddenly won't kill even when it would probably save a lot of lives. And even though he is sentient, Grodd is still ultimately a gorilla-- not a human. Animal control would have put him down already. And it's not like Barry has never killed a villain before. He (albeit not purposely) killed Blackout. He lured a guy in to some sort of radiation chamber and got him killed. He outright killed Sandman by throwing lightning at him and turning him to glass. There may have been some others but that is what I remember right now. So, Barry suddenly being on this "It is murder to kill a gorilla that just tried to nuke my city" is just asinine. And even if I could forget that Barry has killed in the past, it made zero sense for Barry to talk Solovar out of killing Grodd. I realize it was only done to keep Grodd alive for future plots, but it was dumb.

I also think that the no killing thing is slightly insulting to military and law enforcement agents who do have to shoot people to save lives.

12 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

As always, it's merely an excuse to avoid killing the villain so the writers can use them again later. As usual with villains there is absolutely no moral or logical justification not to kill Grodd, especially when it comes to interfering with the internal matters of a kingdom to prevent it. Solovar killing Grodd completely washes the hands of Flash of any responsibility in Grodd's death even if he was the one who arranged for Solovar to be brought there in the first place (speaking of which, Grodd was an idiot for not killing Solovar when he had the chance and just locking him away somewhere instead).

Echoing that they should either get Cisco an actual love interest or just not bother.

Apparently Grodd was correct that the military would do absolutely nothing to stop him and it would just be Flash and Co in his way, go figure.

Is it wrong that I kept wishing that some military person had showed up and just wasted Grodd with a bazooka or something? Like, right after Barry talks Solovar out of killing him-- BOOM. Or if Solovar had thought about it and then just stabbed Grodd.

Also, has Barry ever tried to use the pulse rifle on Grodd? I know it only stunned Gypsy, but I think it can be set to higher power. It took down King Shark-- so why didn't Barry just borrow it and start blasting gorillas? It might have run out of juice before he finished knocking all of them out so there still could have been some fights.

11 hours ago, waving feather said:

All of the above and besides, Barry literally was going to fight a war with the Gorillas before Solovar came into the picture. People get killed during war, Barry. It is inevitable.

It was so stupid of Team Flash to keep Grodd on Earth-1. I don't see what's morally wrong with letting Solovar bring Grodd back to Earth-2 to face justice no matter what it may have been. And Solovar has all the rights after Grodd basically carried out an insurgent.

At this point, I just want Cisco to end up with a nice girl (ahem Caitlyn) who doesn't toy with his feelings.

I agree with the points on the gorillas and Grodd.

I disagree about Caitlin. With her track record, Cisco would end up dead. Plus, I really don't see them as more than friends. And I really wish they didn't feel the need to pair Caitlin off with someone.

I really liked Keiynan in this one. The empathy/sympathy Wally showed to Harry when he thought he was dying was so sweet. He looked almost like he was going to cry but it wasn't overboard. I also like that it is clear that Harry legitimately likes Wally, even if he can be a curmudgeon and tried to trick him in to telling Jesse to go back home. I think he knew that Wally would want her to be there for her dad. Plus, he went through that with his mom so he knows how it feels. But, it's clear he didn't count on Wally actually telling Jesse. I really like that he didn't keep a secret from her though. It's great that he didn't inherit that trait from Joe.

It will be interesting to see what happens with how things go now that Jesse is staying. Wally suggested she get her own place and she wanted him to move in with her. That could end up being a bad thing. I know a couple of teenage girls who moved in with their boyfriends straight out of home and went through emotional rollercoasters and dealt with all sorts of insecurities. I've been playing counselor for one of them lately. We've seen that Jesse can be a bit moody in the past. I just hope they don't have too much drama over it. I've been dealing with enough of it in real life. LOL.

On a side note, I just thought about all that food Barry made and now I'm hungry.

[maxineofarc]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

His foster sister.  There is no blood relationship between them.

They still grew up together as children with the same parental figure in the same home. There are people who are going to find this icky, and I confess I am one of them.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

His foster sister.  There is no blood relationship between them.

 

1 hour ago, maxineofarc said:

They still grew up together as children with the same parental figure in the same home. There are people who are going to find this icky, and I confess I am one of them.

But they were classmates and friends before Nora was murdered, and Barry already had non-sibling feelings for Iris even then. So their being together and in adult love doesn't bother me.

As for the telepathic speaking/no lips moving, I'd be okay with that, if not for the fact that sometimes their lips would move. It just bugs me.

Edited March 2, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule
Because proper sentence structure and grammar are IMPORTANT!