S04.E14: The Man Behind the Shield

[Cranberry]

Mace fights for his life while Coulson and team find themselves in a deadly cat-and-mouse game as they attempt his rescue.

[paigow]

Riddler [ Superior]: Batman [Coulson]? Batman [Coulson]  you say? Coming for you? I'm counting on it!!!!

[AimingforYoko]

Ol' Ada may have exceeded her programming. The robot revolution has begun.

Coulson's little speech to Ivanov was dangerously close to Raul Julia's "But for me it was Tuesday" speech from Street Fighter.

[RandomWatcher]

Philbot and Maybot are going to get it on.

[MisterGlass]

The parts of this that I liked best were the flashbacks with May and Coulson. 

Coulson went to the Communications Academy.  Phil, I should have known you weren't Operations.

The rest was okay, but I am getting a little wearied from the back and forth on the LMDs.  I'm not really a fan of Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a template for this show.

[SnoGirl]

Wait. Did they...did they really swap out everyone BUT FitzSimmons???

My mind is blown right now. This is a real bold move. I wish we would see everyone in the framework, I was hoping that Real!Aida would tell May she was in a simulation. But now, this is trippy.

So its FitzSimmons against Shield? It would be cool if they could tap into Yo-Yo and other friendly Inhumans for help (like Joey).  Or the help of the Koenigs??

Does AI!Coulson have a fancy Fitz-made hand? Does AI!Daisy have Quake's powers?

[Sandman]

Good questions. And who is the "we" Aida referred to? Is she still working according to Radcliffe's plan? Or have Aida and the AIs formed their own (under)cover band?

[ohjoy]

If LMD!Coulson and LMD!May get together and then die, can that be the end of it? Flashback or no flashback, I'm still not on board with this ship. CG and MNW just never seemed to be playing anything other than BFFs-through-hell-and-high-water until right before this LMD mess started.

Please, show, don't kill or permanently injure any part of FitzSimmons. They've been through enough already.

[Michel]

So Coulson, Daisy, Mack, and Mace were all swapped out?!  How could that have happened?!  Hell, when did it happen?!  I hope next week sheds light on it.

The show only has two more weeks before it goes to its break throughout all of March, so I hope that at least the switched ones get back before that break.  I hope May comes back before then, too, but the longer this takes, the more I fear we're gonna have to wait for April or even May (heh) to see her come back.

So May was seeing Andrew around the time of the flashbacks.  Interesting.  I don't see why everyone's saying they don't see them as romantic.  I've kinda felt them as romantic since even before this season, so I'm not bothered them having possibly underlying feelings for each other.

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Good questions. And who is the "we" Aida referred to? Is she still working according to Radcliffe's plan? Or have Aida and the AIs formed their own (under)cover band?

I think Aida's operating on her own behalf now that Radcliffe's almost fully immersed himself in his new Framework.  She can do this without his interference.

[teenj12]

Coulson's monologue to the head Watchdog, and then Daisy blasting the door open was possibly the best sequence of the season. I got literal shivers from how badass that scene was. For a while now, I was hoping they'd really let Daisy go loose with her powers and give her a nice fight scene with them. This week most definitely delivered. And I loved her line about how 'the rules have changed'. 

The only thing that pissed me off was the ending. How and when did all four of them get switched? Especially Daisy - with her powers, I'm in serious disbelief that Aida or anyone could have switched her so easily. They're gonna have to do some heavy explaining on that one.

Also, I liked the May/Coulson flashback (even though it was a bit too 'flirty' for how we've understood their relationship in past seasons/flashbacks). Liked seeing the origins of Meldrew (May and Andrew), and Coulson wearing sunglasses. 

[hello]

Nitpick: How are they manufacturing these totally convincing LMDs? On the sub? The original lab? Doesn't that take massive resources and a lot of time? And if you can produce something of that level of detail that quickly, why not produce some nukes instead? Probably worth a nickel or two. Or replace the president? Why dilly dally with the small stuff (insert hand size joke here)?

[Michel]

Well, if nothing else, this twist does enable Fitz and Simmons to finally be heroes, for a change.  Fitz sort of got to be one during the Blue Planet arc, but now he really gets to be one.  And I've wanted to see Simmons get her chance to be a heroine since at least last season, so seeing how she and Fitz deal with this new situation has me highly anticipant for next week. :)

Edited February 15, 2017 by Michel

[Tiger]

I've really enjoyed this LMD arc if only because every single time I am 100% the show is going to zig, it zags and it does it in such a way that I should have realized how dumb what I thought was going to happen was.

For example, when Simmons was noting that the timing of the mission wasnt right, I thought the reveal was going to be that she was in The Framework.

Good on the producers using the ambiguous "some time ago" for the flashbacks instead of nailing down how many years ago and fucking up their own timeline like so many other shows do.

The LMD finale looks intense.

[vibeology]

Daisy has superpowers. The robot can't have superpowers so how exactly was that swap supposed to work? Quake is a famous public figure. People will notice very quickly if she isn't superpowered. The idea that Coulson or Mack (who after all his complaints about the LMDs now being replaced by one is particularly galling) could be switched out I get. I don't understand what Aida/Radcliffe's plan is with Daisy.

And why wouldn't they try to swap out Fitz or Simmons? They swapped out pretty much everyone else and Simmons especially has clout in Shield. Why wouldn't you want to replace her?

I'm rolling with it, but the payoff next week better be good. I love Aida and Mallory Jansen but overall this plot hasn't held together as well as Ghost Rider.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

Daisy has superpowers. The robot can't have superpowers so how exactly was that swap supposed to work? Quake is a famous public figure. People will notice very quickly if she isn't superpowered. The idea that Coulson or Mack (who after all his complaints about the LMDs now being replaced by one is particularly galling) could be switched out I get. I don't understand what Aida/Radcliffe's plan is with Daisy.

Exactly. I guess that's part of the reason why the show revealed it to us now that Fitzsimmons are the only main characters that are not LMDs, because LMDaisy won't have the Quake powers. I don't think it's possible for Aida and Radcliffe to simulate those powers. Although, I guess Radcliffe managed to copy memories, so anything's possible at this point.

I honestly thought that Fitz/Daisy were the ones swapped out before it was revealed that it was not Fitz and also Coulson/Mack/Mace. Fitz was acting a little weird, maybe a little too toned down in regards to the situation. I still won't be surprised if it's discovered that he's swapped out too. The LMD detection is for the whole building, or just when entering? 

I guess it'll be fun to see Fitz and Simmons go on a rescue mission for the others. The thing is is that it'll have to be done for the next episode because nobody is going to want to sit through more of one episode of LMD Coulson, Mack, Daisy, May, or Mace. We're already going to need to see Fitz and Simmons pretend that they don't know anything while they act in front of the LMDs. Also, more questions: do these LMDs act like May, where they don't know they're LMDs until they achieve their mission? Or are they different in that they have some awareness? 

[Gregg247]

How is it that both AOS and Legends of Tomorrow have gotten so good all of a sudden?  A few months ago, I was about to give up on both of these; now, they're required viewing.  They both seem to have quit taking themselves so seriously and have relaxed into just telling fun stories.

I think Mace was replaced by the LMD prior to his beating.  The mace who Coulson and Mac "saved" was an LMD (he gave Aida the "look" before she walked away).  He was able to overpower them when they "rescued" him.  Not sure about Quake.  I think next week's episode will be creepy and exciting, though! ( I also don't think LMD Quake can/will have any super powers.)

[Tarasme]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I honestly thought that Fitz/Daisy were the ones swapped out before it was revealed that it was not Fitz and also Coulson/Mack/Mace. Fitz was acting a little weird, maybe a little too toned down in regards to the situation. I still won't be surprised if it's discovered that he's swapped out too. The LMD detection is for the whole building, or just when entering? 

I wondered if they'd all been replaced- FitzSimmons included. If the command pertaining to the LMD detector was deleted upon execution (is that even a thing? Or is it convenient plot tech?), then any of them could have executed then not known that they executed. Simmons was late to get to AIDA [I had a REALLY hard time making out most of the dialogue due to my husband's snores- did Fitz and Simmons tease the poor red shirt that Fitz sent with her to find AIDA- the evil murdering android?] and though she was with someone, it really doesn't mean much.

Neither does her discovery that there are additional LMDs- self awareness as an LMD is hard to come by and being a replacement is dependent on complete immersion, so, depending on what Radcliffe has planned for SHIELD to accomplish, Simmons could discover an army of LMDs and still- unknowingly-be one herself.

Maybe snores covered up missing something that would exclude LFitzSimmonsMDs? If so, please let me know! I really don't want to do more are they or aren't they with those two.

[dankesean]

13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Coulson's little speech to Ivanov was dangerously close to Raul Julia's "But for me it was Tuesday" speech from Street Fighter.

I was thinking that too, but more in a 'huh, never seen a heroic variant of that' before kind of way.

Plus, what with Ming-Na Wen being the one on the receiving end of that speech in Street Fighter, it's almost sort of thematically circular.

[mrspidey]

15 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Coulson's little speech to Ivanov was dangerously close to Raul Julia's "But for me it was Tuesday" speech from Street Fighter.

Exactly what I was thinking.

So is it possible that May went through with Andrew because she was afraid to commit with Coulson.

[thuganomics85]

The flashbacks were fun, especially seeing a more youthful, happy Melinda, before the whole "Calvary" stuff happened.  Still not sure if I actually want her and Coulson to be a thing, but their banter was fun.  Interesting that they might have attempted a relationship back then, but the civilian she was dating at the time ended up being someone that became a thing (Andrew.)  The reveal that The Superior just happened to be one of the soldiers was a bit of an obvious plot reveal.

So, basically, everyone is now a LMD but Simmons and Fitz.  At least for now: since LMD's aren suppose to know who they are, it could be anyone, really?  But taken it on face value, that should be interesting since Simmons and Fitz are awesome, but aren't the fighters of the group, so they will have their work cut out for them if/when things so south.

The Superior's whining about how aliens and Inhumans get an unfair advantage really holds less water when fucking Mack just barrels into the cell, and take out three of the four guys with ease.  Dude's already a Terminator (unless he was already switched out by then.) 

Yeah, Coulson's speech did reminded me of Bison's "But for me, it was a Tuesday!" line from Street Fighter.  Horrible movie, but Raul Julia/Bison was so awesome in it.

[Michel]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, basically, everyone is now a LMD but Simmons and Fitz.  At least for now: since LMD's aren't supposed to know who they are, it could be anyone, really?

LMD!Mace says, in next week's episode, that they need to switch out Fitz and Simmons.  So I think the new LMDs know who and what they are.

[MissLucas]

At this point I'm rooting for the LMDs. This is the second time the show has one of its 'heroes' pissing allover people who had to suffer because of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s actions. First time was Bobbi refusing to apologize for letting that other agent get caught and tortured. And I don't care if those Russian guys were thugs or that the agent herself (as a result of relentless torture) committed crimes. I also don't care that S.H.I.E.L.D.'s actions are for the greater good *shrugs shoulders* some remorse for the fucked-up things they do would be appreciated. As it is I say: you go Aida!

Edited February 16, 2017 by MissLucas

[Lantern7]

Oh, right, May was Chun-Li in another life. And I like pre-Cavalry May. So cute and badass. Phil? Always have been a dorkasaurus. Probably took him ten minutes to ask a girl to the prom, even if they were having sex at that time.

I'm hoping the scan is wrong and not all of the returning agents are LMDs. Basically, this would be like Wesley and Whatsherface trying to evade the game-addicted crew of the Enterprise.

Radcliffe = The Architect from The Matrix: Reloaded?

[TVSpectator]

21 hours ago, RandomMe said:

If LMD!Coulson and LMD!May get together and then die, can that be the end of it? Flashback or no flashback, I'm still not on board with this ship. CG and MNW just never seemed to be playing anything other than BFFs-through-hell-and-high-water until right before this LMD mess started.

Please, show, don't kill or permanently injure any part of FitzSimmons. They've been through enough already.

 

 

1

Yeah, I am also not on board with the new May/Coulson ship- it feels so shoehorned in just for the shippers.

 

As with Fitz and Simmons, I would say that only Fitz has romantic feels while Simmons only wanted to be friends (this is my thoughts when watching Seasons 1, Season 2, and early Season 3). Clearly, she doesn't have those kinds of feelings for Fitz, but I am still a bit upset that they are trying to say that they have this great romance (when I think they don't) and then just gloss over the fact that Simmons never had those kinds of feelings for Fitz until like the episode before they first slept together. 

 

And like Fitz/Simmons and now May/Coulson both relationships feels like they are just playing each other as just friends and not new lovers. 

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

At this point I'm rooting for the LMDs. This is the second time the show has one of its 'heroes' pissing allover people who had to suffer because of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s actions. First time was Bobbi refusing to apologize for letting that other agent get caught and tortured. And I don't care if those Russian guys were thugs or that the agent herself (as a result of relentless torture) committed crimes. I also don't care that S.H.I.E.L.D.'s actions are for the greater good *shrugs shoulders* some remorse for the fucked-up things they do would be appreciated. As it is I say: you go Aida!

 

 

 

Part of me wonders if SHIELD is supposed to be the bad guys, when Hydra is out of the picture, or at least a shitty run organization (I mean a few episodes ago they got caught sneaking into Nadeer's office, got a perp walk broadcast on nation/world-wide TV, etc...)? Or maybe Coulson is just the Zapp Brannigan of SHIELD?

Edited February 16, 2017 by TVSpectator

[TVSpectator]

17 hours ago, teenj12 said:

The only thing that pissed me off was the ending. How and when did all four of them get switched? Especially Daisy - with her powers, I'm in serious disbelief that Aida or anyone could have switched her so easily. They're gonna have to do some heavy explaining on that one.

 

For the most part, LMDs SHOULD not have powers. They are just androids, very advanced androids but just robots at the end of the day that act, talk, like humans. They even sometimes bleed and would "sweet", "cry", and would eat but overall they are designed to fool their opponents and sometimes they wouldn't know they are robots (well, there were a few that didn't know they were the LMDs but truly believed that THEY were the humans) and/or they would be used to honeypot their enemy- and this all comes from the comics. So, I would say that either Radcliffe just let the real Daisy go and instead captured Fitz and/or Simmons; which does sound plausible because AIDA wanted to replace the top staff of SHIELD and Simmons is literally SHIELD's second in charge. Plus, if Radcliffe actually thinks, he would probably want to capture/replace Fitz and Simmons since they are the only two who can figured out who is a LMD way long before they science a way to detect LMDS). 

[Michel]

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

At this point I'm rooting for the LMDs. This is the second time the show has one of its 'heroes' pissing allover people who had to suffer because of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s actions. First time was Bobbi refusing to apologize for letting that other agent get caught and tortured.

I'm more forgiving of Bobbi because she was in a tough spot.  It was either give up one bit of info on a S.H.I.E.L.D. safe house that only might have been occupied (she had no way of knowing that Kara/Agent 33 was in it) or give up info on another S.H.I.E.L.D. safe house that she knew was occupied and could get twenty-four S.H.I.E.L.D. agents killed if she'd given it up.  As she'd told Kara and Ward at the time, the safety of many had to overcome the safety of one (and even then, that one she didn't know was in any danger).  Not her fault they were insane and wouldn't accept that.

Coulson's words to Ivanov, on the other hand . . . I can see how that might bug a bit.  But I don't think he had anything for which to apologize, either.  His friends were trying to kill him at the time, so he shouldn't feel bad about taking them down.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Michel

[tennisgurl]

Holy Crap, YOUR an LMD, YOUR an LMD, YOUR ALL LMDs! Wow, did not see that one coming! Looks like it will be up to Fitz and Simmons to save the day, which I am all for. Go Nerd Twins Go!

I'm glad this LMD thing is wrapping up though. I've generally liked the arc, but its your classic "robots go bad" story with Radcliffe as your mad scientist with dreams of grandeur (who is at least a more interesting character than most of his ilk) combined with the plot of every X Men movie ever. Not that it hasn't been done well, I've enjoyed this whole half season in general, but its not as unique and memorable as the first half and the Ghost Rider arc. I just liked that storyline a lot more. That could just be a personal preference though, as I enjoy when the MCU leaves its science fiction robot and science based powers stuff and starts getting mystical and weird. Its just my style.

I'm not sure where, but someone up thread mentioned that Coulson/May and Fitz/Simmons both come off as more close friends than boyfriend/girlfriend, and I have to agree. I appreciate that they are giving us more context to May/Coulson, but I still just don't see a romantic spark. I see close friends who deeply trust and (platonically) love each other, but, again, no spark. I see at least a bit more of a spark with Fitz/Simmons, but not very much. Maybe they're issue is that when they finally got together, they still don't do couple stuff very often. They act just like they did, they just have pillow talk now. Which is fine, because I love them together any way I can get them, but its just off to me. I think May/Coulson could have worked, they just needed to build up the romantic aspect a bit more.

20 hours ago, teenj12 said:

Coulson's monologue to the head Watchdog, and then Daisy blasting the door open was possibly the best sequence of the season. I got literal shivers from how badass that scene was.

Oh yeah, that whole sequence was all kinds of awesome. Brutal, but really great to watch.

[ohjoy]

I admit to being kind of a hypocrite about the show relationships, because I'm totally on board with Fitz/Simmons, but just as completely not buying Coulson/May. I don't really have an excuse for that; everyone sees relationships differently. But if they hadn't gone there with F/S, I would still like their friendship the same -- I guess that's what I was hoping would stick for C/M. Otherwise it's at that point that literally everyone on the team has been in love with another teammate at one point during the show.

[RobertDeSneero]

22 hours ago, teenj12 said:

The only thing that pissed me off was the ending. How and when did all four of them get switched? Especially Daisy - with her powers, I'm in serious disbelief that Aida or anyone could have switched her so easily. They're gonna have to do some heavy explaining on that one.

The when is obvious.  Off-screen between the last time we see them and when they meet up with FitzSimmons.  It takes some very light explaining.  Maybe Mace has already been replaced.  The fake Daisy meets up with Mack and Coulson as they carry fake Mace.  Aida and the fake Mack/Coulson step in and it's a very believable five-on-two, androids-vs-humans showdown that ends quickly.  Daisy is injured from the knife to the shoulder.  Even with powers, it's not hard to believe she could be overcome, being outnumbered and not expecting an attack to come from her friends.

[MissLucas]

4 hours ago, Michel said:

I'm more forgiving of Bobbi because she was in a tough spot.  It was either give up one bit of info on a S.H.I.E.L.D. safe house that only might have been occupied (she had no way of knowing that Kara/Agent 33 was in it) or give up info on another S.H.I.E.L.D. safe house that she knew was occupied and could get twenty-four S.H.I.E.L.D. agents killed if she'd given it up.  As she'd told Kara and Ward at the time, the safety of many had to overcome the safety of one (and even then, that one she didn't know was in any danger).  Not her fault they were insane and wouldn't accept that.

There was nothing wrong with her rationale behind the decision - but it still had horrible consequences for Kara. And she refused to admit that - you can do the right thing and still accept responsibility for the consequences and apologize. Actually that's what makes a  hero and Bobbi refused to do that (doesn't matter what Kara and Ward were doing to her at the time - it's about her not them). Coulson and May waltzed into a military compound where they had no legal grounds to be in the first place and set in motion a chain of events that ended in the soldiers who were doing their job being tortured and killed. And he can't even remember why. That's prime asshattery.

Fitz seems to be the only member of S.H.I.E.L.D. with a vague notion of an ethical code left.

[teenj12]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

There was nothing wrong with her rationale behind the decision - but it still had horrible consequences for Kara. And she refused to admit that - you can do the right thing and still accept responsibility for the consequences and apologize. Actually that's what makes a  hero and Bobbi refused to do that (doesn't matter what Kara and Ward were doing to her at the time - it's about her not them). Coulson and May waltzed into a military compound where they had no legal grounds to be in the first place and set in motion a chain of events that ended in the soldiers who were doing their job being tortured and killed. And he can't even remember why. That's prime asshattery.

Fitz seems to be the only member of S.H.I.E.L.D. with a vague notion of an ethical code left.

• Bobbie did apologize - and explained the whole 'lives of the many' thing. It does matter what Ward and Kara were doing. They unreasonably kidnapped and tortured Bobbie, even though there were a dozen better ideas for Kara to get closure from her. Of course, I don't blame Kara (and Bobbie didn't blame), because she was mentally compromised and Ward took advantage of her instability. 
• Also, like hell Fitz is the only one with an ethical code left. Where was his ethical code when he abused his scientific ability to participate in the creation of a murderbot? 

[MissLucas]

I checked the dialogue in a transcript and Bobbi did not take any responsibility but hid behind 'the greater good' argument. She said she was sorry but immediately jumped to saying that this was what had to happen without any signs of remorse. As I said you can do the right thing and still admit that part of that was doing something horrible and wrong - because that's life. This is about Bobbi's personal stance and that's why I said Kara's and Ward's actions don't matter. If you justify whatever you're doing by the greater good and never ever accept that in doing so you are guilty of inflicting pain and damage and  to others and show some remorse then you enter pretty dangerous territory - like Coulson did in this episode.

And I said Fitz had at least a vague notion of an ethical code. He did question his actions and showed remorse - well until Simmons came along with another typical S.H.I.E.L.D. argument meant to absolve someone from personal responsibility: 'Your intentions were good!'

[Sandman]

Don't Fitz's intentions matter as far as his participation in creating an LMD are concerned? He's remorseful now about what Aida has become, but it's not like he went into the project thinking "Homicidal android, yay!" He wanted to create a tool that would help keep S.H.I.E.L.D. agents out of danger, and save human lives. I don't fault him for that. The fact that Radcliffe and Aida herself removed the constraints that Fitz built in to keep the LMD from harming humans (including her pain responses) can't be laid at Fitz's door. His eagerness to create which led to blindness to some of the risks is something Fitz can be faulted for; Mack had a point. But I think calling it "abusing his scientific ability to participate in the creation of a murderbot" is going too far. All scientific advances have at least some potential to be abused. That doesn't make science itself inherently destructive.

But I agree with Miss Lucas's point that taking responsibility for the consequences of one's actions is part of having an ethical code; intentions alone aren't enough. We'll see what Fitz does with his sense of responsibility, I guess.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sandman
To add agreement.

[benteen]

Mack getting on Fitz is the exact conversation I've been wanting characters to have with Comic Book Tony Stark and Reed Richards for years.  I've found that they feel their intelligence entitles them to play Russian Roulette with the world.

Fitz's mistake was not reporting Aida when he learned about it and allowing himself to be compromised by Radcliffe, who never should have been given any kind of position at Shield in the first place after last season.

Edited February 17, 2017 by benteen

[Sandman]

Yeah, I'm still not sure how Radcliffe was trusted by S.H.I.E.L.D. at all after last season. ("Ooh, I've changed!"?)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sandman

[Traveller519]

One thing about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, they're never afraid to go full comic-book... Everyone's an LMD!

[paigow]

It would be very funny if The Superior survived and kept killing a Coulson LMD every week and then freaking out when he discovers "Coulson" is still alive. Each week the murders would become more elaborate and complex.    

[VCRTracking]

I love that May is the reason Coulson wears sunglasses most of the time in the field.

I also like Agent Davis making a reference to the "Goblin King" when Simmons mentioned they were in a "labyrinth".

I could see Mack's side of the argument along with Fitz's.

If they had the money they could have used the same FX the Marvel movies used to make Michael Douglas and Robert Downey Jr look younger for May and Coulson in the flashback scenes.

Edited February 17, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Maverick]

17 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

The when is obvious.  Off-screen between the last time we see them and when they meet up with FitzSimmons.  It takes some very light explaining.  Maybe Mace has already been replaced.  The fake Daisy meets up with Mack and Coulson as they carry fake Mace.  Aida and the fake Mack/Coulson step in and it's a very believable five-on-two, androids-vs-humans showdown that ends quickly.  Daisy is injured from the knife to the shoulder.  Even with powers, it's not hard to believe she could be overcome, being outnumbered and not expecting an attack to come from her friends.

 When FitzSimmons were puzzling out what had happened, one of them mentioned seeing tanks for gaseous compounded, implying that the team was sedated and their LMD counterparts stepped in.  

[TVSpectator]

21 hours ago, RandomMe said:

I admit to being kind of a hypocrite about the show relationships, because I'm totally on board with Fitz/Simmons, but just as completely not buying Coulson/May. I don't really have an excuse for that; everyone sees relationships differently. But if they hadn't gone there with F/S, I would still like their friendship the same -- I guess that's what I was hoping would stick for C/M. Otherwise it's at that point that literally everyone on the team has been in love with another teammate at one point during the show.

 

 

 

My main issue with Fitz/Simons relationship was that it was never shown that Simmons had those kinds (a.k.a. romantic feelings or even just to be sexually attractive to him, which she was not) of feelings for Fitz- it just all of a sudden was implied that she now loves him and will stand by his side. Look, what I am really saying is that they totally screwed up the Fitz and Simmons relationship because the actors are just playing it like they are friends (well, at least just one side of this ship, in my opinion, is dong this). The problem is that they seem to be doing the same thing now with Coulson and May. Where did these feelings come from? Why did it take Coulson years to figure this out? Was it because May was with Andrew and he didn't want to break them up? Then what about his feelings for people like the Cellist, or even Rosalind? What does the real May feel about all of a sudden love from Coulson, etc....?

Edited February 17, 2017 by TVSpectator

[Sandman]

18 hours ago, paigow said:

It would be very funny if The Superior survived and kept killing a Coulson LMD every week and then freaking out when he discovers "Coulson" is still alive. Each week the murders would become more elaborate and complex.    

Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Spy vs. Spy?

I'm particularly disappointed that the story behind the Superior (yeah, not so much) is just another personal grudge against a member of S.H.I.E.L.D. This is a Big Bad? (Hint: No.) The scale is all wrong; and the anti-alien sentiment, while timely, is too pat and on-the nose as a metaphor for current politics. Plus, the actor playing the greasy Russian strongman just annoys me on a basic level. It's all so unearned.

I actually have an easier time with the idea that Simmons did have romantic feelings for Fitz for years without recognizing them for what they were. Not Coulson and May, though. It almost feels like LMayD's feelings for Coulson were "edited in" by Radcliffe or Aida. (And Coulson didn't really notice? I ... got nothin'.)

[mac123x]

I really wish they'd turn up the lights a little bit.  3/4 of the time I'm trying to follow the action based on dialog and movements because I can't see what's actually going on.

 

I know, I know, low-lighting covers up the crappy sets and SFX, but it's annoying.

[teenj12]

On 2/16/2017 at 0:54 PM, Traveller519 said:

One thing about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, they're never afraid to go full comic-book... Everyone's an LMD!

Agreed. This is one of the things I like about The Flash too. That show is banana's.

[LilJen]

On 2/14/2017 at 11:10 PM, SnoGirl said:

Wait. Did they...did they really swap out everyone BUT FitzSimmons???

My mind is blown right now. This is a real bold move. I wish we would see everyone in the framework, I was hoping that Real!Aida would tell May she was in a simulation. But now, this is trippy.

So its FitzSimmons against Shield? It would be cool if they could tap into Yo-Yo and other friendly Inhumans for help (like Joey).  Or the help of the Koenigs??

Does AI!Coulson have a fancy Fitz-made hand? Does AI!Daisy have Quake's powers?

Koenigs! All the Koenigs!! They must come to the rescue! :D

On 2/15/2017 at 4:45 AM, hello said:

Nitpick: How are they manufacturing these totally convincing LMDs? On the sub? The original lab? Doesn't that take massive resources and a lot of time? And if you can produce something of that level of detail that quickly, why not produce some nukes instead? Probably worth a nickel or two. Or replace the president? Why dilly dally with the small stuff (insert hand size joke here)?

Plot hand wave! It's just miraculous how quickly and easily it all happened, and the LMayD was so perfect even Simmons--who recognized Aida right off the bat as an LMD--didn't realize LMayD was an LMD. Amazing how quickly science advances these days. Maybe they borrowed Hermione's time turner.

[Sandman]

"A wizard did it!"[/Lucy Lawless]

[Snorfbat]

This was the plot of Magnus, Robot Hunter 4000 AD #2 (May 1963).

[TVSpectator]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:29 AM, Sandman said:

Don't Fitz's intentions matter as far as his participation in creating an LMD are concerned? He's remorseful now about what Aida has become, but it's not like he went into the project thinking "Homicidal android, yay!" He wanted to create a tool that would help keep S.H.I.E.L.D. agents out of danger, and save human lives. I don't fault him for that. The fact that Radcliffe and Aida herself removed the constraints that Fitz built in to keep the LMD from harming humans (including her pain responses) can't be laid at Fitz's door. His eagerness to create which led to blindness to some of the risks is something Fitz can be faulted for; Mack had a point. But I think calling it "abusing his scientific ability to participate in the creation of a murderbot" is going too far. All scientific advances have at least some potential to be abused. That doesn't make science itself inherently destructive.

But I agree with Miss Lucas's point that taking responsibility for the consequences of one's actions is part of having an ethical code; intentions alone aren't enough. We'll see what Fitz does with his sense of responsibility, I guess.

 

 

 

On 2/16/2017 at 10:20 AM, benteen said:

Mack getting on Fitz is the exact conversation I've been wanting characters to have with Comic Book Tony Stark and Reed Richards for years.  I've found that they feel their intelligence entitles them to play Russian Roulette with the world.

Fitz's mistake was not reporting Aida when he learned about it and allowing himself to be compromised by Radcliffe, who never should have been given any kind of position at Shield in the first place after last season.

 

 

I could see the not foreseeing AIDA becoming a murder-bot but still, he didn't report Radcliffe and instead he not only didn't tell anyone at SHIELD what Radcliffe was doing he also lied as long as he could about what he was doing at his place and also helped build/improved AIDA and also a bunch of other stuff. Simmons is also responsible for this mess, as well, because she didn't tell anyone and instead blackmailed Mace to protect Fitz. So, even if they stopped Radcliffe and AIDA they still have blood on their hands because they didn't do their jobs as SHIELD agents (and still one agent did get killed from this debacle ) and instead tried to protect some dude that they fully knew would do crazy ass shit with technology to improve humans and is at best ethically gray.  Plus, I do believe that it was hinted that the mere fact that both Fitz and Radcliffe were building AIDA is in violation of the Sokovia Accords (which again just makes the case against Fitz and even Simmons worse because they knew what they were doing was wrong....)

 

Which is again, just because Fitz gets a lofty goal of creating these LMDs (to save the lives of others) instead someone literally died and then he also got at least 5 of his friends kidnapped and replaced with LMDs against their will (and I think that this is the best case scenario for him because they could've just died and have their LMDs take over). It's like that old saying; the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by TVSpectator

[Sandman]

All very true.

[blackwing]

I loathe the Coulson and May pairing.  I especially hate that they create these flashbacks to explain the root of these now deep-seated feelings in apparent direct response to viewer criticism that this pairing came out of nowhere. 

When is the LMD storyline over?  I'm so tired of it.  I know the LMDs are lifelike, but how lifelike?  Do they eat and breathe?  I can understand grafting a wig onto an android body.  But if the Mace being interrogated and beaten was already the LMD, then that's some super detailed LMD, down to his chest and armpit hair.  And the LMD even sweats under pain. I didn't think LMDs felt pain.  

[Mellowyellow]

I adore Fitzsimmons and find it believable. They've been friends and worked together since they were fairly young so to me this is a realistic dynamic for two people with their history to have with each other even if they are madly in love. Yes they seem more like platonic friends but in my opinion you can be completely platonic most of the time, have scorching hot sexytimes behind closed doors and then revert to looking completely platonic in every other situation.