S02.E13: Can Josh Take a Leap of Faith?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

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Rebecca's father makes a surprise appearance, which gets Rebecca's hopes up for her future, while Josh takes a hard look at himself. White Josh and Darryl find themselves at an unexpected crossroads.

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[Eeksquire]

Oh my GOD, you guys! Well, this show knows how to get you excited for the next season, that's for damn sure.

[Primetimer]

The event we've been building to all season is finally here. It's like the big finale to a musical or something!

View the full article

[Irlandesa]

I was just thinking in this episode how much like a telenovela it is except the main character isn't the heroine but rather the over-the-top ex-girlfriend determined to ruin everything.  There was a wedding.  Twists. Shocking decisions and brushes with death.

I loved how they used Trent as the crazy ex who shared information but then the decision whether or not to look at the information was up to Josh.  He didn't look, right?  Deciding to be a priest is such a Josh thing to do. I don't see it sticking either but we'll see.  I'd hate to lose Father Brah.  Josh will likely marry whoever Rebecca eventually marries.

So we learn something more about Rebecca's tortured past--a married lover professor. 

It is so typical of Rebecca to look like she's making a major step by kicking her father out only to decide she needs to destroy Josh*.  Paula has been so good this season but I don't think telling Rebecca that it's the guy's fault for not loving her back was the right move.  She should have just pointed out that relationships don't work out until they do.  

*What gall to expect a flight back home.  That said, I still don't care about Nathaniel.

My favorite moment, though, was David Hull's reaction as White Josh when Darryl decided they should have a baby.

[Bruinsfan]

If I were Father Brah I'd be stopping to buy a flatbed full of FireGuard E-84 on the way back to church.

[SeanC]

The repeated appearances by Josh's coworker seemed like such an obvious setup for Josh to suddenly switch his focus to a different woman that I was quite amazed when they had Josh actually correct a flaw in his past attitudes...only to then go in a completely different, equally over-the-top direction.

This episode is case in point for why Rebecca is a good character, and one I never have a problem sympathizing with. Her basic desire to find love and acceptance, and her inability to keep getting out of her own way even when she knows what the problem is, is very relatable. Also, I'm sure next season's Revenge Squad will be a lot of fun.

They finally figured out how to use Heather this season, when last year she seemed on her way to being the show's version of Travis Mayweather, so praise for that.

[txhorns79]

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My favorite moment, though, was David Hull's reaction as White Josh when Darryl decided they should have a baby.

I loved it.  It was like Daryl has been absorbing some of Rebecca's craziness. 

I remain consistently impressed with this show.  It has some wonderful writing, and it constantly surprises me. 

We all knew Rebecca had mental health issues, but wow.  If she's more than willing to burn her ex's house down when she gets dumped, I fear for Josh.  And I want to be clear, while Josh is awful, it was clearly a good decision  not to marry Rebecca.  Her underlying issues are way too out of control.  However, I can't really get past the guy who is too big a coward to tell her directly, and humiliates her on her wedding day in front of her friends and family.   So he made the right decision not to marry her, but some punishment is in order.  Though I did wish we saw Paula recognizing that she was doing what she did with Rebecca in Season 1, i.e. playing to her worst instincts. 

And am I wrong, or were the nurses at Rebecca's institution some of the same actresses who were dancers in the opening credits?      

Edited February 4, 2017 by txhorns79

[Bruinsfan]

I do love that the show's title is going to become even more apropos next season. The Chans are probably going to end up wishing Josh had married Valencia after all.

Kind of sorry that Naomi zinged Rebecca's dad with all the insults at the rehearsal dinner; I wish she'd saved something really cutting for that scene after the wedding fell through. Or just, y'know, quietly shoved him over the cliff edge while all eyes were on Rebecca.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[Rinaldo]

Lots of nice, entirely legitimate references to earlier episodes here. Naomi defended Rebecca at her hearing using the lyrics of the Season 2 theme song. (Callback to Paula and Scott's recital of the Season 1 song!) And of course Rebecca's vocal soliloquy was a medley of four reprises of songs we've heard -- I loved that.

[kitkat343]

I'm really glad this show has been renewed for a third season - it's been fascinating to see the character developments.  I love Valencia and  Heather together, and Valencia's kick ass personality is perfectly suited for being a wedding consultant.

[sarkygal]

I need to watch this again. I'm not the most sentimental TV watcher, but I teared up at how earnestly Rebecca needs love and validation. Every now and then, the depth of her pain and her precarious mental health comes though really strongly. 

I hope I explained that well without being offensive or insensitive. I felt a visceral empathy for Rebecca tonight. 

[waving feather]

That was quite uncomfortable to watch for a light-hearted musical comedy. Rebecca needs serious help; not just a shrink. She is a danger to herself and others. The men in her life are mostly dicks, yes, but it is all how she reacts to things and blow things out of proportion.

[HunterHunted]

53 minutes ago, waving feather said:

That was quite uncomfortable to watch for a light-hearted musical comedy. Rebecca needs serious help; not just a shrink. She is a danger to herself and others. The men in her life are mostly dicks, yes, but it is all how she reacts to things and blow things out of proportion.

It reminds of how on Orange is the New Black we found out just how dangerous and unstable Lorna was/is and it caused you to reevaluate everything you'd seen before. I think the only difference here is that it was pretty clear in season 1 just how sick Rebecca is. It made that first season a seriously unpleasant watch.

The interesting thing is that with far less insight, Josh was able to disrupt his patterns.

[dungeonwriter]

That got dark really fast. Rebecca needs deep mental health help, it's almost uncomfortable to watch her now because I look back and everything makes so much sense.
"I'm the Villain in my own story." "You Stupid Bitch." She is a deeply flawed woman and it's hard to root for her. In a way, Greg is the only sane one, he saw that whirlpool of hurt and swam away as fast as he could.
We see Rebecca as a serial liar, as someone with major impulse control issues and now, we really see a dark side to her. But we've kinda always seen it. "Friendtopia" was fairly dark.
And Paula egging her on? Really horrible.

[waving feather]

35 minutes ago, dungeonwriter said:

Rebecca needs deep mental health help, it's almost uncomfortable to watch her now because I look back and everything makes so much sense.

Yeah, all those throwaway comments are not throwaways at all. Yikes! Like how she used to scratch her fingernails underneath the table until it leaves a mark when she was a child.

I would not even call her issues "daddy issues" because they are much bigger than that. Many people have fathers who abandoned them when they were kids, but majority of them don't behave like her. I don't think Paula knows the extent of her damage... else she would not have enabled Rebecca that much.

Greg is smart for running away. Josh, too, but he did it in a cowardly way. He should have talked to her instead of making an impulse decision once again.

Also, am I supposed to cheer for Rebecca when she declared she is going to destroy Josh Chan? That won't end well for anyone. 

ETA: Is this episode supposed to have any comedic element? Because I couldn't find anything that I could laugh at. It was sad and a little horrifying. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by waving feather

[dungeonwriter]

It's harder to view this as feminist empowerment, because I see Rebecca now as such a negative force for others. Yes, in some ways, others do better because of her (Paula's law school,  Greg's MBA, Valencia's wedding planning) but it's sad how much of her influence requires separation from her. 

I am not sure if this show can get any darker and still be funny. At this point, Rebecca looks like she's getting close to doing a felony or two, and she could be disbarred, committed or even jailed for this. Every time she hits rock bottom, Rebecca finds a drill and I think she's about hit her limit. 

[femmefan1946]

Having a few clergy in the family, I'm pretty sure Josh will not be accepted as a candidate. A weekend of meditation and reflection perhaps.

The interesting thing is that with far less insight, Josh was able to disrupt his patterns.

Well, of course, Josh is not particularly bright and a little impulsive and quite easily led, but he is sane and has a strong family that supports him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While I totally understand that Josh's fears were rooted in something real (Rebecca calling him by another name and then lying about it, which was confirmed by Darryl and Naomi) rather than cold feet, if you are not going to marry someone THE LEAST YOU CAN FUCKING DO IS TELL THE PERSON TO HER FACE. Calling Father Brah and having him tell Rebecca that the wedding was off because he wanted to become a priest was a cowardly chicken shit thing to do. It would have been cruel enough to ditch her like that on its own, but on the day of the wedding? Fuck off, Josh Chan.

I don't want to get all technical about what is required at each level of commitment in a relationship, but if you're going to call off a wedding you need to do that yourself in person.

Last week, I said I was looking forward to Trent sabotaging the wedding but that's because I thought it would involve silly wacky hijinks, not bribing someone and then exposing Rebecca's past to Josh. For me, Rebecca, Josh, and Trent all crossed the line this week and went from imperfect but funny/sweet/understandable to asshole.

As for Josh being able to break the cycle, I think the biggest factor in that was Father Brah flat out telling him what his pattern is and Josh repeating it only an hour or so later so that he recognized what he was doing. Rebecca, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be aware of the destructive patterns in her life.  I know we've only seen snippets of her therapy sessions but has Dr. A come out and told Rebecca her patterns of behavior? I can't remember. I know there are some therapists who choose not to do that because they feel it's better for the patient to realize these things on their own, so maybe Dr. A is one of those?

We've seen how much Naomi picks on Rebecca, so it was nice to see her immediately protect her daughter when Josh brought up Robert. Even though lying to your future son in law isn't ideal, I totally understand why she did it.

On the other hand, though, I think if you are going to make a lifelong commitment to someone, you need to be honest with them about the big things. You don't need to give a minute by minute account of your entire life, but having an affair with a married professor, burning down his house, being charged with arson, and having to undergo in-patient therapy is something you should disclose. I understand that Rebecca is not proud of what she did, but Josh isn't some random guy you met at a bar who doesn't need to know this information. This is someone you are planning to spend the rest of your life with, so he deserves to know about major relationships in your past as well as major health issues (mental or physical).

My biggest regret about Rebecca's father is that she let him keep the check. I would have told he could leave as soon as he gave the check back. It was really sad throughout the entire episode to see Rebecca's naked desperation for her father's attention.

On a shallow note, Heather looked awesome in her bridesmaid dress (which is a statement I rarely make). Brides love to tell their bridesmaids, "I picked out a cute dress so you can totally wear it to stuff after the wedding too!" but in this case, it's true, especially if she hemmed it to just above the knee. It was nice to see that Rebecca made Josh's sisters her bridesmaids too.

I love Darryl and White Josh so I hope they stay together, but dude! Why did Darryl make the leap from "we don't have to get married" to "let's have a kid"? Not everyone wants to get married, and that's okay as long as their partner is okay with it too. If you are truly in a committed relationship, then being married doesn't change anything between the two of you. Legally, it does give you additional rights (a tax break, eligibility for health insurance, etc) but if those things aren't a concern then I understand not getting married. But that doesn't mean you have to trade one lifelong commitment for another. Can't Darryl and White Josh just be happily unmarried without a new kid? Darryl's kid is awesome and White Josh obviously adores her, so why isn't that enough? And realistically, how long have Darryl and White Josh been dating? A few months? I know they started dating at the end of S1, but I don't think a year has passed in the show's timeline. Slow your roll, Darryl!

[Spartan Girl]

So Rebecca is going full-on Lifetime psycho now?! Honey, JOSH IS NOT WORTH IT.

[PodcastTown]

Season 3 is going to be awesome. Anyone felt that Charmed/The Craft witchery vibe??? I also wanted to punch Josh in the face after that episode. What a base head!!

[Kareny]

Was that the underscore from "Burn" from Hamilton when Rebecca was burning things in the flashback? I'm almost positive that it was. 

[txhorns79]

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We see Rebecca as a serial liar, as someone with major impulse control issues and now, we really see a dark side to her. But we've kinda always seen it. "Friendtopia" was fairly dark.

But they nostalgically watch Hocus Pocus! 

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And Paula egging her on? Really horrible.

Yeah, and Paula really has no idea what she's dealing with here.  I wonder what she would think if she actually knew about Rebecca's past.  For all the "good mommy/bad mommy" they were doing with Paula and Naomi, the roles seem to reverse when Rebecca is in serious crisis.  Naomi seems to be at her best, offering support in court, and getting treatment, while Paula reinforces Rebecca's bad choices and helps escalate the situation. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by txhorns79

[AllyB]

l just caught up to this episode after binging the whole series this week. This episode was great after a second season that seemed to be struggling to find it's way once Fontana decided to leave between seasons. I feel really confident that season 3 will be fantastic, that Bloom knows what she's doing and that there is an overall storyline planned for Rebecca that will still work well even with the loss of a major character.

6 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

The interesting thing is that with far less insight, Josh was able to disrupt his patterns.

I don't think Josh disrupted his patterns any more than an alcoholic disrupts their patterns by quitting drinking while developing an addiction to Xanax. He even described joining the priesthood as 'marrying Jesus' earlier in the episode. He's telling himself that he's broken his pattern but he's really just fooling himself. The crappy way he let Rebecca know what he was doing just goes to show that.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On the other hand, though, I think if you are going to make a lifelong commitment to someone, you need to be honest with them about the big things. You don't need to give a minute by minute account of your entire life, but having an affair with a married professor, burning down his house, being charged with arson, and having to undergo in-patient therapy is something you should disclose. I understand that Rebecca is not proud of what she did, but Josh isn't some random guy you met at a bar who doesn't need to know this information. This is someone you are planning to spend the rest of your life with, so he deserves to know about major relationships in your past as well as major health issues (mental or physical).

Rebecca wasn't keeping that from Josh, she was keeping it from herself. She had completely repressed those memories and it was only when she looked at herself in the mirror while wearing a veil that she started to let those memories back into her consciousness. Then standing on the terrace overlooking the cliff after Josh abandoned her, she fully remembered what had happened.

6 hours ago, dungeonwriter said:

And Paula egging her on? Really horrible.

But Paula doesn't know how serious Rebecca actually is, she doesn't know Rebecca has form. If your best friend was just left at the alter, briefly contemplated suicide and had her worthless father call her crazy and say he's happy to have nothing to with her within minutes of all that you'd probably help her plot all sorts of awful revenge scenarios on her should have been husband. It's what pretty much everyone does. Paula probably plotted all sorts of ways to hurt Scott after he cheated, Heather was viciously throwing darts after Greg chose Rebecca, before that Greg had a photo of Rebecca on the dart board, etc. Very, very few people ever carry through on their crazy revenge plots but most people have them, it's cathartic when pain is deep and raw. In that moment Paula would just be helping Rebecca work through some anger. It will be interesting to see Paula realise that Rebecca will actually carry through on a lot of the worst revenge fantasies and how far Paula will go along with her. Paula was pretty crazy with the plotting in season 1 and I wouldn't be surprised if she uses Rebecca's revenge plots as a way of working through some of her anger at Scott's betrayal.

[txhorns79]

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If your best friend was just left at the alter, briefly contemplated suicide and had her worthless father call her crazy and say he's happy to have nothing to with her within minutes of all that you'd probably help her plot all sorts of awful revenge scenarios on her should have been husband. It's what pretty much everyone does.

It's not what everyone does.  If my best friend had seriously been contemplating suicide right in front of me, I'm going to try to seek help for her, not egg her on as she imagines revenge scenarios against her admittedly awful ex.  Rebecca is not a mentally stable person.  You do what you can to get that person help, not enable their worst instincts.    

[AllyB]

But again, Paula doesn't know that Rebecca was genuinely contemplating suicide. She knows far, far less about Rebecca than we do. She certainly doesn't know that she's mentally unstable, she adores her as a daughter and also looks up to her on many levels. We know that Rebecca is so unstable that (other than already having a season three renewal) she might actually have jumped off the cliff. We know she is capable of doing awful, awful things to Josh if not drastically reined back. To Paula, Rebecca suffered an extreme hurt (the latest in a series of hurts) and very briefly flirted with the idea of an extreme reaction.

In the space of a few minutes, Paula was horrified, sympathetic, terrified, relieved, furious, proud and settled on cold anger and protectiveness. She's also emotionally aware enough to know that all of her bad feelings are a fraction of what Rebecca is experiencing. She knows that's Josh's actions were the catalyst for all that pain, so she's angry with him and she knows Rebecca is angry. She also wants Rebecca to direct her anger at Josh rather than herself. Because what she does know about Rebecca is that Rebecca blamed herself for her father's shitty treatment of her and often blames herself for men treating her badly even when it's not justified. Being angry, extremely angry, at the man who has hurt her is normal and healthy as far as Paula is concerned because for most people it's an important stage of grief. Think Brenda Walsh fantasising about cutting off Kelly Taylor's hair or running after her and Dylan with an axe. Sure, given their history Paula has to know there may be hijinks ahead but if she's given that any thought at all she'll be thinking prawns in his curtain poles rather than cutting his brake lines.

[nara]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It is so typical of Rebecca to look like she's making a major step by kicking her father out only to decide she needs to destroy Josh*.  Paula has been so good this season but I don't think telling Rebecca that it's the guy's fault for not loving her back was the right move.  She should have just pointed out that relationships don't work out until they do.  

My favorite moment, though, was David Hull's reaction as White Josh when Darryl decided they should have a baby.

I think that the job for that moment was to keep Rebecca from jumping to her death, so I think Paula did the right thing to make sure Rebecca didn't blame herself.  Going forward, a real examination of Rebecca's life is in order, but at the time, I think this was appropriate.  Pointing out that sometimes relationships don't work out, while true, might have seemed dismissive of Rebecca's pain and literally sent her over the cliff.

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And am I wrong, or were the nurses at Rebecca's institution some of the same actresses who were dancers in the opening credits?      

I didn't notice, but OMG, that would be brilliant!  I wish I hadn't already deleted it off the DVR so I could check.  I wondered for a moment whether Rebecca was still in the mental hospital and meeting Josh in the city, the move to West Covina, and everything that's happened in the show were all just in her mind.  But that's too insane, right?

BTW, Rebecca looked so beautiful in her dress.  

Is the show coming back for Season 3?  I thought it had been canceled.  If it is coming back, please keep her single or a little bit...

[Silly Angel]

Man, that was ROUGH. I'm still processing but for now I have shallow notes: Rebecca's boobs in that dress, Heather's legs in that dress, Valencia's butt in those pants, Paula glowing in that blue color, with her hair aflame. Dang, girls.

[Luciano]

47 minutes ago, nara said:

I wondered for a moment whether Rebecca was still in the mental hospital and meeting Josh in the city, the move to West Covina, and everything that's happened in the show were all just in her mind.  But that's too insane, right?

For a second, so did I - I was having Buffy flashbacks.
And, yeah, it is coming back for a third season.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Luciano

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, dungeonwriter said:

That got dark really fast. Rebecca needs deep mental health help, it's almost uncomfortable to watch her now because I look back and everything makes so much sense.
"I'm the Villain in my own story." "You Stupid Bitch." She is a deeply flawed woman and it's hard to root for her. In a way, Greg is the only sane one, he saw that whirlpool of hurt and swam away as fast as he could.
We see Rebecca as a serial liar, as someone with major impulse control issues and now, we really see a dark side to her. But we've kinda always seen it. "Friendtopia" was fairly dark.
And Paula egging her on? Really horrible.

I don't know if it's because I work for a mental health and substance use disorder agency, but it's been clear to me how sick Rebecca was from the earliest episodes of season 1. There were multiple episodes in season 1 where I wanted someone to talk to a police officer who would take custody of Rebecca and to a lesser extent Paula and put them in a hospital on a temporary mental health hold. I could never get anyone that I worked with to watch more than 1 or 2 episodes. They all said it reminded them too much of work. I've enjoyed season 2 because Rebecca came across as far less self-destructive, not well or healthy mind you, but less likely to actively ruin her own life. For the most part, I'd thought that Rebecca was internalizing and self-destructive, that everything that ended up hurting others was a bit of a byproduct of Rebecca trying to hurt herself. It's clear that's not completely true. I thought it was coincidental, but it's clear that it's a fundamental part of Rebecca to lack empathy and treat people terribly when she's in pain. She's super sick. Not battery swallowing or enucleatiating sick, but sick nonetheless.

[chaifan]

I also thought this was all going to be in Rebecca's head when they did the flashback to the mental hospital.  Especially with one of the women next to her commenting "she sings to herself all the time" (or something like that).  Then Season 3 would start with her really seeking out Josh, but not being a big time lawyer - so same premise, just slightly different story, still somehow intertwining all the characters (except Greg).  Damn, the more I think of it, the more fun that could be...

[dungeonwriter]

12 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if it's because I work for a mental health and substance use disorder agency, but it's been clear to me how sick Rebecca was from the earliest episodes of season 1. There were multiple episodes in season 1 where I wanted someone to talk to a police officer who would take custody of Rebecca and to a lesser extent Paula and put them in a hospital on a temporary mental health hold. 

Could you name some instances in season 1? I'm curious to see an expert's point of view. Because seriously, it no longer makes sense for Rebecca's mum to let her move halfway across the country without thinking she was relapsing badly, and needed another intervention. 

[sarkygal]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Rebecca, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be aware of the destructive patterns in her life.  I know we've only seen snippets of her therapy sessions but has Dr. A come out and told Rebecca her patterns of behavior? I can't remember. I know there are some therapists who choose not to do that because they feel it's better for the patient to realize these things on their own, so maybe Dr. A is one of those?

 

I think we've been shown Rebecca is in deep denial of the severity of her mental health problems. She's actively resisted therapy and the past 2 seasons, has rarely attended appointments or engaged in therapy. Even in this episode therapy snippet, Dr A muttered that she only stayed for 8 minutes. I think Dr A recognises she needs real help, but hasn't been able to work with her.

I would argue that Greg is the only one of the West Covina folks who actually knows how unhealthy Rebecca is. Josh is too simple to recognise that level of damage and I hope they stay apart. 

[waving feather]

3 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

I would argue that Greg is the only one of the West Covina folks who actually knows how unhealthy Rebecca is. Josh is too simple to recognise that level of damage and I hope they stay apart. 

I agree Greg was the only one who really got Rebecca and knew what a mess she is. Even her bestie Paula seems oblivious to it. However, Greg himself is battling alcoholism, so it was wise he left for his own sake. 

In some ways, Rebecca's mother is worse than her father. Her father is absent but her mom schemes and do things that are not healthy for her own daughter. She was behind the reason Josh proposed to Rebecca so soon. After their trip to her hometown, both of them felt something was wrong in their relationship but Rebecca's mother had to meddle and put the idea of proposing in Josh's head. And Josh being the simpleton, just followed along.

[MrsR]

Awesome episode. Not enough music but what was there was choice.  Great set up for next year.

Great to see all the main characters and even some of the lesser ones.

I find it interesting that most supportive and loving child /parent relationship (Hector and his Mom) is viewed as completely nutty while every one normalizes and accepts the damaging child/parent relationships.

Yep, she's a crazy ex-girlfriend, the title says it all. I'm on board for more crazy.

Of course she was in a damaging relationship with her professor. Of course she was.

[dubbel zout]

21 minutes ago, MrsR said:

I find it interesting that most supportive and loving child /parent relationship (Hector and his Mom) is viewed as completely nutty while every one normalizes and accepts the damaging child/parent relationships.

I think Hector's relationship with his mom is as messed up as Rebecca's is with hers, just in a very different way.

The scenes between Rebecca and her father were brutal. I really liked Nathaniel's tiny bit of solidarity by telling Mr. Bunch the trip back was going to be flying coach.

It cracked me up that Adam Kaufman played another skeezy guy, because I always think of him as Parker from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[MrsR]

Like I said, I find it interesting that people view Hector and his Mom's relationship as messed up even though they actually like each other.

[jjjmoss]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was just thinking in this episode how much like a telenovela it is except the main character isn't the heroine but rather the over-the-top ex-girlfriend determined to ruin everything.  There was a wedding.  Twists. Shocking decisions and brushes with death.

Not a telenovela, but US soap opera Passions' most main character was Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald who always came up with crazy schemes to force Ethan to be with her, including a lot of immoral and illegal stuff.  But you couldn't help rooting for her to be happy, if perhaps not with the guy she was so obsessed with given how he sucks. 

[tennisgurl]

Dear Lord, that was BRUTAL. I have no idea where we can go from here, but I feel like, wherever we go, its going to get dark. I'm sure they'll still be laughs, but if we are going to be getting into Rebecca's full on Fatal Attraction tendencies, things are going to get worse before they get better. I always figured that Rebecca had a lot of issues, but this reveals that her issues are much bigger and more dangerous that I expected. She seemed severely out of it in that mental health facility, and, yeah, she burned a guys house down. That professor seemed like a grade A asshole, but burning a guys house down is never the answer, unless the house is possessed by evil spirits or something. I feel like the show is very aware of the fact that Rebecca is really sick, and we aren't supposed to be all "You go girl! Feminism!" over her wanting to destroy Josh. I think we are supposed to look back at all the things that Rebecca has done in the past, which might have seemed cute or funny because Rebecca is our cute and funny protagonist, and realize they were actually pretty disturbing.

Not much singing this week, but I enjoyed the call backs to previous songs, both in the dialogue and in the singing. Rachel sounded great in her one song, and she looked amazing, if nothing else. Also, Rebecca's dad really does suck. Her mom might not be the best parent, but at least I feel like she does care about Rebecca, while he couldn't care less about her. And, as much as I like Josh, he screwed up big time here. He might have had a rare moment of self awareness in seeing his pattern after Father Brah spelled it out for him, but he still chickened out at the last minute. Becoming a priest is just moving onto to another girl, except instead of a girl, its God. And, yeah, he shouldn't have gotten married, that's a horrible idea, even Josh knew that, but come on dude! At least TELL Rebecca to her face! Not cool Josh. That all being said, Paula isn't right about it being all these jerks faults that Rebecca is messed up. Rebecca's issues might have started with her daddy issues, but at some point, she needs to start taking responsibility for her own actions and her own health. I don't deny that her Dad, Robert, and Josh treated her badly, and that's not Rebecca's fault, but blaming other people wont help things at all. She makes bad calls. Getting involved with a married professor was a bad call. Throwing herself into her relationship with Josh was a bad call. She needs A LOT of help.

I don't count Greg has a guy who treated her badly, exactly. He might not have been a perfect guy, but he was honest with her, and when he left, and wasn't actually with her at the time, and he left to work on his own issues, not just to run out on her. He actually realized that he was being an asshole, he had his own issues to work out, and he and Rebecca were, in fact, a shit show, and while he loved her, they were bad for each other. However, I would be happy if Santiago ever showed up again when he and Rebecca had had time to work on their issues.

This season went by WAY too fast.

[txhorns79]

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Like I said, I find it interesting that people view Hector and his Mom's relationship as messed up even though they actually like each other.

I think people view them as messed up because they seem overly involved in each other's lives, and Hector sometimes speaks about his mother in ways that suggest neither of them have particularly healthy boundaries with one another. 

[dubbel zout]

Exactly. You don't have to have an adversarial relationship for it to be messed up.

[Bruinsfan]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I totally understand that Josh's fears were rooted in something real (Rebecca calling him by another name and then lying about it, which was confirmed by Darryl and Naomi) rather than cold feet, if you are not going to marry someone THE LEAST YOU CAN FUCKING DO IS TELL THE PERSON TO HER FACE. Calling Father Brah and having him tell Rebecca that the wedding was off because he wanted to become a priest was a cowardly chicken shit thing to do. It would have been cruel enough to ditch her like that on its own, but on the day of the wedding? Fuck off, Josh Chan.

Yeah, heading into this episode I was hoping Josh wouldn't be too hurt by whatever wedding disasters happened, but the thoughtless runaway groom thing completely jettisoned my sympathies for him. I'm now onboard with Rebecca going The Life and Loves of a She-Devil on his cowardly ass for a good part of next season.

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Like I said, I find it interesting that people view Hector and his Mom's relationship as messed up even though they actually like each other.

The problem is that they appear to like like each other. I mean, they seem to be happy, but I'd say the vast majority of people would regard a parent/child relationship that reads more like romantic partners as creepy and messed up.

[dakiMel]

My favorite throwaway line was Father Brah saying "No, I don't know any Roberts."
Two Joshes & no Roberts. What a world West Covina is.

[AllyB]

52 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think people view them as messed up because they seem overly involved in each other's lives, and Hector sometimes speaks about his mother in ways that suggest neither of them have particularly healthy boundaries with one another. 

That said, I wonder how Hector's relationship with his mother would appear if Hector was a young woman. The friendship shared by many tv mother-daughter pairings, likeThe Gilmore Girls, are seen as mostly positive. Why can't a mother and son enjoy a close adult friendship in a similar way? Obviously Hector and his mother are played for laughs as minor characters, especially his mother who has only been in two scenes in this one episode. But from what we have seen of her she was open and friendly to Heather and keen to have her to dinner, suggesting she'd be supportive of Hector finding a romantic partner. And Heather, cynical Heather, seemed to genuinely approve of their dynamic. So I think MrsR might be right and Hector and his mother just do have a great, healthy relationship and we are just conditioned to find a mother-son pairing odd if they are so close.

[Blue Castle]

Quote

I was just thinking in this episode how much like a telenovela it is except the main character isn't the heroine but rather the over-the-top ex-girlfriend determined to ruin everything.  There was a wedding.  Twists. Shocking decisions and brushes with death.

Quote

Not a telenovela, but US soap opera Passions' most main character was Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald who always came up with crazy schemes to force Ethan to be with her, including a lot of immoral and illegal stuff.  But you couldn't help rooting for her to be happy, if perhaps not with the guy she was so obsessed with given how he sucks. 

I didn't watch Passions, but I think this is also the classic soap archetype of the "bad girl."  Blair Kramer on OLTL, Carly on GH (as played by Sarah Brown at least), hell even Erica Kane, were all popular bad girls.  The bad girl is the woman who plots, schemes, lies, and in short does anything to get what she wants--but the audience still loves her because she's also vulnerable and tough.  There's always something tragic about the bad girl because often she's doing all this for a guy who doesn't love her enough (or who loves someone else)--or she's doing this because she doesn't believe he will love the real her (or the person she is without lies).  And her schemes never work out on the long run--she's usually left to pick herself up out of the ashes alone.  The bad girl is, imo, the heart and soul of any good soap opera.  Her desires define a soap.  Even though she's often the antagonist to a "good" character--she's never a villain because the audience is rooting for her, even if they don't root for her schemes.

I never really thought of Rebecca in these terms because Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has such a different tone than the soaps I've watched--but yeah, you guys are right, the show is kinda like a deep examination into the mind of soap opera bad girl if she happened to be a West Covina lawyer.

[SomeTameGazelle]

13 minutes ago, Blue Castle said:

I never really thought of Rebecca in these terms because Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has such a different tone than the soaps I've watched--but yeah, you guys are right, the show is kinda like a deep examination into the mind of soap opera bad girl if she happened to be a West Covina lawyer.

The soap opera "bad girl" is frequently redeemed when she finds the "right" man and gives up on trying to catch or steal the wrong man.

[dubbel zout]

I don't think Rebecca is a "bad girl" in the classic soap sense, because she's sabotaging herself. Her actions affect other characters, of course, but she's not out for revenge. (Or hasn't been until the end of this episode.) Rebecca hasn't been trying to right some giant wrong that's been done to her by someone else.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

That all being said, Paula isn't right about it being all these jerks faults that Rebecca is messed up. Rebecca's issues might have started with her daddy issues, but at some point, she needs to start taking responsibility for her own actions and her own health. I don't deny that her Dad, Robert, and Josh treated her badly, and that's not Rebecca's fault, but blaming other people wont help things at all. She makes bad calls.

Yeah, it's almost like she chooses men she knows will leave her, at least on a subconscious level. A married man is always a bad choice because the odds are he'll go back to his wife due to financial/legal/social issues, and if he doesn't go back to his wife, there's the fact that he's shown that he's willing to cheat and to leave his wife, so there's a big chance he'll do it again. One of the first things she learned about Greg was that he was unhappy in West Covina and wanted nothing more than to get out of there. Again, a bad choice if you're concerned about someone leaving you. Josh showed serious commitment issues in the way he bounced among women and got inappropriately intimate with Rebecca while planning his wedding to Valencia. It's a pretty big red flag when you're using the plan from what was supposed to be his wedding to someone else for your wedding to him, and it's not even outdated yet. She also didn't help matters where he was concerned by moving up the wedding so quickly. He might have been able to work out his issues more appropriately or else have broken up more appropriately without that time pressure.

Greg doesn't even really count as leaving her, since she was the one who ditched him while they were out together to run off with Josh (Greg was being a jerk who deserved to get ditched, but running off to have sex with his best friend is beyond the kind of ditching he deserved). They weren't actually together when he left town. She just wanted him at that time because she couldn't have him and Josh was being wishy-washy.

Though I have to say, I'm intrigued by this twist of the crazy being literal. I'm a fan of musicals and romantic comedies, but I still have to admit that the heroines often come across as not right in the head, even as their antics are supposedly "cute." It's interesting to see that dealt with honestly, while still having the musical numbers and cuteness.

[Lebanna]

There's this thing that we do, where we take mental illness and make it cute. 'Oooh, I'm sooo OCD, I have to alphabetise all my CDs!' or, 'Like, there was this voice in my head, just telling me to kiss him!'. And when we come across someone whose brain is actually malfunctioning, we laugh. They say such funny things, it just comes right out! She's so crazy!

But anyone who actually has had a mental illness, even a very mild one, will tell you that, while we might see the funny side of it, it's dark and horrible and destructive and awful and takes a lot of work and pain to get over. Like, for example OCD isn't putting your shoes in a row, it's blowing out a candle and then checking it exactly thirty-three times by grasping the wick with your fingers, but you still don't feel like it's out, so you have to light it again and blow it out again and check it exactly thirty-three times again, but your brain still says, 'check it again'. And if you don't check it again, the right number of times, your grandma who lives 200 miles away will die. Now that's crazy. And if you watched someone you loved doing it, it would be really funny at first. But then it would get weird and boring. And then it would start to hurt. And the hurt doesn't stop.

I've always wondered if they'd every actually go there on this show and I've been waiting for it to happen. Because when you love someone with a mental illness, it hurts. It's funny, like cancer is funny sometimes. Like having a tube up your nose to help you breathe or a catheter put in can be funny. It looks like they're maybe really going there and of course, this is a comedy. So it won't be as bad a real life, because it still has to pull in an audience. But you've had two years, and you care about Rebecca now, you care about her friends, and it should hurt you, because of how it hurts them. You should keep caring and seeing her self destruct should ache. You should feel conflicted that her seemingly funny, delightful songs are really just part of the delusions that are keeping her sick and making her hurt herself and everyone around her.

But I'm excited. I want them to really go there. It's a rare and awesome opportunity, if they're brave enough. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Lebanna

[Eeksquire]

I feel like so much happened this episode that I need to rewatch it.  Actually, I'd like to rewatch the whole season and see how it was put together from the beginning now that I know the end.  Anyone know how long it will be before it shows up on Netflix?