S01.E01: Chapter One: The River's Edge

[sacrebleu]

So... Cheryl dropped a glove in the water. She brought gloves on a boat trip, in July? Nobody questioned that?!?!

[MarkHB]

They appeared to be fancy silk gloves.  No idea why she went full garden party for a clandestine boat ride with her brother.

[Minneapple]

It finally hit me. The actress playing Betty reminds me of Melissa Benoist. If Melissa wasn't so busy on Supergirl she could play Polly.

[memememe76]

The actress who plays Betty reminds me of that blond actress in that CW cheerleader show. She was on a couple of Disney tv shows. 

[Zanne]

The worst crime on this show was Miss Grundy wearing heart shaped glasses and unironically slurping a milkshake a la Lolita. No one over the age of five, much less someone either nearing or in her early thirties, wears heart shaped sunglasses.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

So... Cheryl dropped a glove in the water. She brought gloves on a boat trip, in July? Nobody questioned that?!?!

She brought gloves on a boat trip in July while wearing a full garden party ensemble with her equally overdressed twin brother. They went for this boat ride at 6am in the morning, alone. It was 6am in a relatively populated area and the only people who heard the gun shot was the statutory rape couple who were fucking on the beach at... 6am (and broad daylight)

I'm really unimpressed with the investigative abilities of Riverdale PD because this whole scenario is as suspicious as fuck.

But maybe this is the lead in for the hippy kids smoking pot in the van down by the river to solve the crime with their Great Dane?

[txhorns79]

Quote

However, I would be happy if all teacher-student affair plots were dropped from high school dramas. That is statutory rape, and it should be treated as such.

Aren't they treating it as such?  I mean, this isn't like a Law and Order episode, but both characters seem to recognize that their affair was wrong.  I agree the storyline is trite, and it's weird to see Miss Grundy made into a hot to trot twenty-something teacher who has sex with Archie. 

[Bill1978]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

But maybe this is the lead in for the hippy kids smoking pot in the van down by the river to solve the crime with their Great Dane?

I had the exact same thought, when I was thinking about how the mystery was going to be solved in the show. And we all know it is the kids of Riverdale who are going to solve the mystery and not the police department. Because adults cannot adult on teen dramas

[TwistedandBored]

This show is like any other CW show-snow white with few drops of color. So far the two people worth any sort of attention are Betty and Veronica. I also liked the girl group and their leader. 

Archie and everyone else were so boring. 

[Cosmic Muffin]

Quote

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Aren't they treating it as such?  I mean, this isn't like a Law and Order episode, but both characters seem to recognize that their affair was wrong.  I agree the storyline is trite, and it's weird to see Miss Grundy made into a hot to trot twenty-something teacher who has sex with Archie. 

 

I don't like student teacher affairs, even when the actors appear to both be in their 20s. It would have been more interesting if they kept Ms. Grundy as she was in the comics. I also wish Jughead was asexual. Oh, well. I'll give this a few episodes.

 

Growing up, Scooby Do was my favorite, not sure if I'd want them to make it into a non animated t.v. show or not.

[WhosThatGirl]

I HATE student teacher affairs. Don't really quite understand why it's such a thing on tv shows. 

[Chas411]

The Archie/Betty/Veronica drama reminds me of Brooke/Peyton/Lucas on One Tree Hill. How he manages a less convincing lead then even Chad Michael Murray astounds me. The character is awful. 

[Bobbin]

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 6:44 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

Also - NONE of them look young enough to be in high school

That's the first thing that struck me. Especially being "16." 18 I might buy. I know this is common with teen dramas. The best they can do is under-emphasize their supposed ages. As for Archie's role (and personality), note that the show is deliberately called "Riverdale" and not "Archie." It's a re-imagining. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Bobbin

[Bill1978]

Because every TV show needs a wacky theory, I've decided that what we are watching never happened. We are just watching Jughead's fictional novel come to life.

[questionfear]

37 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Because every TV show needs a wacky theory, I've decided that what we are watching never happened. We are just watching Jughead's fictional novel come to life.

That crossed my mind too... That it could be a case of one part truth, two parts fiction. 

[Anna Yolei]

On 1/25/2017 at 9:20 AM, DanMSchro said:

I just genuinely CANNOT with Archie's hair.

Me, neither. That drove me up a wall more than some of the other...shall we be kind and say "creative" changes.

On 1/26/2017 at 7:35 PM, CatMomma said:

Speaking of, why the hell is every awful person on this show a woman? Even Betty's sister was a victim of the mother, not the guy who played her emotions and led her on.  

Oddly, I can kinda understand that one. I've been in a similar position as Polly where I didn't feel supported by those I trusted. And if Alice had disowned her for...what? Dating a guy she didn't like? Then, ouch. 

That said, I agree,  it maybe part of that is because they haven't worked Hiram into the show just yet.

As to the show itself, it was great casting (The Veronica actress owns that role and the Cheryl girl entirely embodies a very dated mean girl cliche role to bring energy to it) but the writing? Eh. I'm not fond of the gritty Gotham City lighting being used, either. But as escapist TV, it works.....and I've been watching The Bold and the Beautiful since middle school; if I can suffer through those endless triangles with people now nearing retirement age, I can overlook it for teena who will grow outta it one day (I hope).

#TeamBetteronica

[Anna Yolei]

8 hours ago, memememe76 said:

The actress who plays Betty reminds me of that blond actress in that CW cheerleader show. She was on a couple of Disney tv shows. 

She kinda reminded me of Dianna Aragon from Glee. Same vibe, same inability to convincingly pass for 16.

[Danny Franks]

Honestly, the fact that the actors look older than 16 isn't what would crush my suspense of disbelief so much as... everything else that happens in this fever dream of a show. 

[peachmangosteen]

On 1/27/2017 at 8:44 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

Also - NONE of them look young enough to be in high school.

I thought for sure I was gonna look up the Archie actor's age and he was going to be pushing 30. And yet he is 19. I was shocked! They're all actually younger than I had them pegged because they really look old, man. But teens on tv are always played by older actors. It's not like it's new. I'm used to it. And honetsly it makes me uncomfortable when actual teens play teen drama characters.

On 1/27/2017 at 8:50 AM, AzureOwl said:

Since I never read any of the Archie comics and don’t know anything about the characters beyond their pop culture standing, I think I will be able to judge the show on its own merits better.

Same. I mean I know about the comics because duh everyone does, but I've never read them and I know basically nothing about the characters or plots.

On 1/27/2017 at 9:50 AM, galax-arena said:

This show is so trashy and melodramatic, and the dialogue is horrible.

Excellent. I'm in! 

Right!

On 1/27/2017 at 7:18 PM, Affogato said:

I kept on hoping for zombies and witches, maybe a sarcastic cat? It doesn't seem to have much humor or its own personality.

I do wish it had more humor. Maybe that'll come later though. Pilots are usually more plotty.

I thought the Betty actress looked like someone but I can't remember who now because my sister said she looked like Brittany Murphy and now that's all I can remember. Dammit!

I didn't know Jughead was asexual in the comics. I'm super bummed to hear they're not bringing that to the show. I have been clamoring for more (i.e. any) asexual characters on tv.

Edited January 29, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ZoloftBlob]

Speaking as an asexual, I'm not sure how to *bring that* into a storyline. If Jughead is asexual then he won't be dating and might occasionally deflect attention from a suitor. Or, because of his age and because it's really not that common, he might be worried and angsting that something is wrong with him as he's not blossoming the way everyone else is.  Either way, it's not terribly fascinating. The sad truth is, asexuals tend to be rather drama free and no one on a CW show should be drama free so I am not surprised they're skipping the asexuality.

[Danny Franks]

14 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Speaking as an asexual, I'm not sure how to *bring that* into a storyline. If Jughead is asexual then he won't be dating and might occasionally deflect attention from a suitor. Or, because of his age and because it's really not that common, he might be worried and angsting that something is wrong with him as he's not blossoming the way everyone else is.  Either way, it's not terribly fascinating. The sad truth is, asexuals tend to be rather drama free and no one on a CW show should be drama free so I am not surprised they're skipping the asexuality.

They could get a bit of drama from it if they had a storyline where he tries dating, because it's a thing he feels he's supposed to do. But once he realises he doesn't have any interest in girls or guys, and comes to terms with it, the drama is over. So probably not CW-worthy.

[starri]

The Jughead comic has had some drama out of it.  Mainly that Sabrina keeps trying to date him.  Just sub in Ethel for Sabrina.

[jay741982]

On 1/27/2017 at 10:49 PM, memememe76 said:

I think what the show did a pretty good job was to showcase the different relationships. Betty and Veronica is the most obvious example, but I also bought the friendship  (or lack thereof) of Archie and Jughead, the friendship of Betty and Kevin, the rivalry of Cheryl and Veronica/Betty. The romantic relationship are less defined, but for the show to last, it's always the friendships that matter.

And Luke Perry's ex wife has to be either Shannon or Jennie or Rebecca. Maybe Tiffani?

The ex wife has been cast showing up in Episode 10

Edited January 29, 2017 by jay741982
Accidental Spoiler!

[jay741982]

20 hours ago, memememe76 said:

The actress who plays Betty reminds me of that blond actress in that CW cheerleader show. She was on a couple of Disney tv shows. 

I think you're referring to Aly Michalka who's currently on Izombie 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I thought the Betty actress looked like someone but I can't remember who now because my sister said she looked like Brittany Murphy and now that's all I can remember.

That's kind of who she looked like to me as well.

The bad dye job on "Archie" was driving me to distraction. It's such an unnatural looking color on him. They should have either dispensed with the idea of Archie being a redhead or they should have looked around a little more and found an actual ginger to play the part.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't know Jughead was asexual in the comics.

The old-school comics never used the term, but Jughead was typically depicted as disinterested in the only girl who wanted to get together with him, "Big Ethel".  I imagine that for storytelling purposes it helped to have a character who could stand outside the romantic rivalry plots between Archie / Betty / Reggie / Veronica.

 

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The bad dye job on "Archie" was driving me to distraction. It's such an unnatural looking color on him. They should have either dispensed with the idea of Archie being a redhead or they should have looked around a little more and found an actual ginger to play the part.

To me, the kicker is that, in some sequences like the dance, they've made him the spitting image of old-school Archie!  I don't know how they managed to get his hair styled to look like the comics, but they pulled it off.

[ParadoxLost]

This one is going to go on the list of reserving judgement until I've seen more than the pilot.

Its visually different (sort of) but its such a hodgepodge of different shows and movies stylistically that I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

The characters seem the same way.  I totally see where the person who said it was like Dawson's Creek was coming from.  Veronica is Jen.  Betty is Joey. And they made Archie into some weird blend of Pacey and Dawson who is having anxiety about having to do everything.   Although I vaguely remember it, I also flashed back a little to Popular.

I wasn't overly impressed by the acting either but its hard to tell in an episode that was a huge info dump. 

Its going to come down to whether they can find their own voice and back away from shoving every show that had a cult following into a blender with every TV trope.

[angora]

Agree that Betty and Veronica are the best things so far and that Archie is kind of a dud.  Obviously, shit's about to get complicated with B & V now, but I hope they find some way to work through it and at least get back on the road toward friendship.  I'm loving the backstory/motivation they're setting up for Veronica, and I'm hoping the kiss with Archie was a combination of backsliding and hormones, and that she'll continue to work on being a better person.  I'll reserve judgment on Jughead until we've seen more of him.

I was annoyed that Archie told Veronica he's never had "those" feelings for Betty but told Betty he's not good enough for her.  If he's really not interested in Betty, then what he told her doesn't do her any favors in the long run, but if it's his own insecurities keeping him from pursuing a relationship with her (despite apparently being hot, talented, and universally loved by everyone,) then he misled Veronica in order to get a green light with her.  Seriously, as it currently stands, both girls would be better off without him.

Re:  Jughead's asexuality, it's only something that's been made canon in the separate Jughead comic, started by Chip Zdarsky in 2015, but it's actually consistent with his character from throughout the comic's history.  Jughead has always been more of the outside observer shaking his head at the romance drama/hijinks that continually get his friends in trouble, so I love that Zdarsky made him asexual in his own comic; it feels fitting, and as an ace, I'm thrilled to see this long-standing pop culture character happily identify the way I do.  As for storyline potential, I love the short storyline the comic did a while back where Jughead and Archie got into a fight over the way Archie always prioritizes girls/the POSSIBILITY of girls over his friendship with Jughead.  That was so relatable to me, and I enjoyed seeing a storyline about the importance of giving friendship the value it deserves.

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

And they made Archie into some weird blend of Pacey and Dawson who is having anxiety about having to do everything.   Although I vaguely remember it, I also flashed back a little to Popular.

Shit, I though got I was the only one, between him being the big football up and comer who is now torn with going a different route and the psuedo angst with Dad.

I agree they need to have taken one of those things off his plate. Being the apex of the love triangle, the only Sophomore on the Varsity team, a songwriter/musician, banging his teacher who's been de-SORASed* forty years at least and if it follows anything else from the comics will likely be going after Cheryl in the future....too many shades of Gary Stu insert.

*Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome in case anyone wasn't familiar with the term. 

[tennisgurl]

So, this is basically Archie meets Twin Peaks? I can get behind that. Its less bizarre than that time in the comics where Archie met The Punisher.

I actually liked this, even if the characters are rather cliché, and its trying a bit too hard to be "dark and edgy" and "deep". Its not like seemingly perfect small towns having dark secrets is some new thing. At tis point, it would be shocking if a small town had NO dark underbelly. Its a pilot, so I`ll give the show some time to settle into itself.

The Miss Grundie/Archie affair is super creepy. I know she's younger here, but she's still his teacher, and he's still a teenager. Gross.

Betty and Veronica are pretty cool so far, and I like the actresses. Really, most of the acting here is pretty solid. Now that just need to make the characters more interesting. Like, I hope Kevin gets more to do than be everyone's Sassy Gay Friend, Archie gets more compelling, Cheryl gets to be more than a Mean Girl, Josie and her bandmates get to do more than play music and be snarky, etc. 

I read some Archie comics as a kid, but I don't have a lot of nostalgia for it, so I'm going into this with an open mind. I would say a Dark and Broody Archie is stupid, but Archie comics have certainly done weirder stuff, so I guess this works.

I think I read somewhere that they want to bring Sabrina the Teenaged Witch into the show at some point. I can SO get behind that. And than Josie and the Pussycats can go to space! And maybe meet Scooby Doo! Or the Harlem Globetrotters! The options are endless.

[rose711]

Don't hate me but I honestly thought this was about the school in the Bronx until I watched it on demand.

[rose711]

On 1/28/2017 at 3:41 PM, Zanne said:

The worst crime on this show was Miss Grundy wearing heart shaped glasses and unironically slurping a milkshake a la Lolita. No one over the age of five, much less someone either nearing or in her early thirties, wears heart shaped sunglasses.

I've seen them around. I wouldn't say no one wears them. Maybe they go in and out of fad but I've seen some cute ones.

[Richness]

Never read the comics, but I decided to watch this given the dark undertones they were promoting the show with. While I'll give it a few episodes to develop, I'm not impressed so far. I'm definitely way to old for the target demographic though.

 

I don't have the problem with adults playing sophomores, but the they seemed way to worldly and self-aware to be believable. Veronica is my favorite character, followed by a close Betty, with Kevin in a distant third. The others are boring and badly acted.

 

However, the biggest shocker of this show for me was seeing how much Luke Perry has aged. This is Beverly Hills 90210's heartthrob? He's not much older than me, so I guess that's where that bit of shock is coming from. Unlike his co-star Brian Austin-Green, who has only gotten better with age.

[Lady Calypso]

12 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Speaking as an asexual, I'm not sure how to *bring that* into a storyline. If Jughead is asexual then he won't be dating and might occasionally deflect attention from a suitor. Or, because of his age and because it's really not that common, he might be worried and angsting that something is wrong with him as he's not blossoming the way everyone else is.  Either way, it's not terribly fascinating. The sad truth is, asexuals tend to be rather drama free and no one on a CW show should be drama free so I am not surprised they're skipping the asexuality.

Also speaking as an asexual, I do think they can bring in at least some elements. The issue is that because this is The CW, it would be rather difficult to stick to their conventions. Jughead could still be dating. He could easily be interested in some form of intimacy, just not in a sexual way. It would certainly be a challenging storyline to write, but one that could work if they put a little bit of effort. He could still have relationships without the sex, but maybe The CW and the showrunners don't think it would make for good TV. I think it would; imagine the story coming out of Jughead trying to date and realizing that his personal interests in any relationship do not match others. 

I do agree with you that less drama does come out of certain asexuals. I'm probably the most boring person ever as a young adult that has never had a romantic relationship. I just think that having asexuality represented would be a challenge that some could tackle. 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh I forgot to mention this in my earlier post: my mom was a huge fan of the comics when she was younger and she was SO aghast at Miss Grundy being de-aged and at her having an affair with Archie. She could barely continue watching lol!

Also, I remembered who I thought Betty looked like: Brittany Snow. She looks like a mix between Brittany Snow and Brittany Murphy to me.

[rose711]

So was the Jason and his mean sister part of the original story?

[Bort]

It's funny how many different people Betty reminded them of. Because I had thought she looked like a young Joan Cusack. 

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, rose711 said:

So was the Jason and his mean sister part of the original story?

Here's her Wikipedia page; it talks about the evolution of the character in the comics.  Jason gets a mention but is ultimately relegated to a paragraph on the "Other Friends and Family" WP page.

Also, the  @CherylBombshell Twitter account she mentioned during the show is live, although it's only Tweeted once.  I predict it will be a social media failure, as are most "cast" handles in my experience.

[blixie]

Quote

It finally hit me. The actress playing Betty reminds me of Melissa Benoist. If Melissa wasn't so busy on Supergirl she could play Polly.

All I see and hear is Brittany Murphy, the same awkwardness and adorableness and darkness. I think she's great. 

 

Quote

They went for this boat ride at 6am in the morning, alone. 

No I don't think they did, I thought they found Cherry the next day, so Archie/Miss Grundy heard the gun shot by the river before Cherry was discovered, aka @ 6am the next morning. But I'd have to watch again to be sure. 

 

Quote

Aren't they treating it as such?  I mean, this isn't like a Law and Order episode, but both characters seem to recognize that their affair was wrong. 

Yeah I think they are treating it like a bad thing, Archie like a lot of victims of predatory adults is both infatuated and guilty and ashamed, more so because being with her means he has to lie about being witness to Jason's murder. I'd be really surprised if Miss Grundy makes it out of this season alive or at least in jail. 

[Neurochick]

I loved it.  I remember the Archie comics growing up in the 70s.  I like how this show takes those elements and shakes the shit out of them.  The show has a 1950s-60s feel, but it's contemporary too, and damn they even have Madchen Amick as Betty's mother.  Twin Peaks indeed.

Yes they all do look too old to be sophomores in high school.  Though when I was in high school, there were more than a few girls who looked way older, college age older.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Neurochick

[femmefan1946]

Jughead could still be dating. ... He could still have relationships without the sex, but maybe The CW and the showrunners don't think it would make for good TV.

You mean like having a character who is celibate? That would be a shocking twist!

There are still some strips around from the 1940s, and I can remember them from the Digests I read in the 1950s*. I have no reference points for Dawson's Creek except for seeing one of the actors on Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 3B.

Does Archie react to Veronica because she is a 'legal' Miss Grundy? Dark hair, sophisticated...

The youthening of Miss Grundy is weird. And Grade Ten is 'sophomore." A fair number of kids would be only 14 in September of Grade 10 if they have December birthdays. Waaay too creepy. 

Also making him 15 leaves out the flivver**. As I recall Archie and Veronica were the only two in the strips with cars.

If the Archie actor had to dye his hair anyway, why not go for a carrot red rather than the auburn they chose. Or hire a fairer actor.

I'm hoping for an interesting development and deepening of the friendship between Betty and Veronica. There are not as many of these on TV as there are in Real Life, where women often retain school friends well into their 60s or 70s. Boyfriends and husbands fall by the wayside.

 

*Yes. I'm old.

** Really old.

[xtwheeler]

My main difficulty is trying to understand why the twins' parents were listening to a Cyndi Lauper song from her 1983 album when conceiving the twins 15-16 years ago. "All Through the Night" is a transcendent song, and more than deserves to be heard in 2017 and/or covered by the Pussy cats, but it struck me as a total anachronism. 

[Dagny]

I watched it and they are really trying to sink their hooks into you fast.

That being said, my mind keeps saying "Rivendell", not "Riverdale". Elves would make it more interesting.

[Last Time Lord]

I was totally floored over how much I enjoyed this, and I know, like, nothing about the Archie comics. I mean, I've heard of Josie And The Pussycats, but I had no idea they were Archie characters until I saw this.

Apparently, Sabrina The Teenage Witch was, as well. Had zero clue about that, either.

[Chas411]

Also I can't believe how old I feel knowing the Ross Gellars son is all grown up now!! 

[femmefan1946]

Elves would make it more interesting.

Well I noticed an Archie VS Predator comic in the comic book store today when I went to pick up Issue #4 of Serenity: No Power In the Verse.

[Oscirus]

Ten things that occurred to me while watching Riverdale:

1. They got down Archie, Reggie and Betty, translated Jughead's character fairly well to fit into a tv format, sometimes get Veronica, and were way off on Moose.

2. Probably shouldn't race bend your characters if the only characters you race bend are characters on the fringe, characters in stereotypical roles or both.

3. This show is heavily relying on the female demographic. I get that the comics probably catered more to that demographic but why double down on that?

4. I came in expecting to be blown away by the betty/ veronica friendship, came away more intrigued by the Archie/Betty one. Does Betty see them as best friends or is that just Archie?   Is Betty only friends with him because she has a crush on him?  I'll be interested in seeing how they developed that. Also, how do they live next door to one another, especially being close and she's only just now recognizing the changes in him?

5. Quite disappointed that they chose to make Moose gay. Not because I mind gay characters but because my favorite Archie triangle was always reggie-midge-moose and  it doesn't look like that'particular triangle will be explored.

6. Please don't turn Hiram into a trump like Villain.  So Archie's mother left and Hiram's elsewhere, that future romance between ronnie's mom and Luke Perry couldn't be anymore obvious.

7. The killer is definitely not in Betty's family. Way too many hints for anybody in that family to be involved.

8.   I know that Cheryl invited Archie, Ronnie and Betty to the party to cause trouble but was her plan relying on the bottle to land on the one person it did? Anybody else and the plan would've been a dud.

9. So because Betty revealed her feelings to Archie, is he supposed to become asexual around her?

10. More Reggie. He was the villain that made the comics go. Cheryl just comes off as too mean girlish. She's a cliched character that we see in all these type of shows.

 

As for the love triangle currently leaning towards Archie-Veronica, Archie-Betty is relying too much on nostalgia and Archie's not enough of a prick to be kicked to the curb by both. 

[starri]

18 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

6. Please don't turn Hiram into a trump like Villain.

I think he's more Bernie Madoff, although the distance between the two may not be as wide as I imagined.

[Oscirus]

4 hours ago, starri said:

I think he's more Bernie Madoff, although the distance between the two may not be as wide as I imagined.

LOL, you're rich I get my rich a-holes mixed up all the time. Either way I'm sick of shows being innovative by making their rich characters one of those two.

[Dobian]

On 1/27/2017 at 6:40 AM, cardigirl said:

This bugged me most of all.  Everyone kept emphasizing that they were sophomores in high school and I was like "sure, sure they are." It kind of ruined the story line.  I get that it's the CW and fantasy to boot, but gah, so many sophomores in high school are gonna be devastated that they don't look anywhere near that grownup.  Aren't sophomores 15?  Not even driving yet.

They're sophomores.  College sophomores.  But yes, sophomores.